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"New York Magazine's" Ben Terris is Interviewed about the Ballroom; Jury Consultant Faye Honig is Interviewed about the Clancy Trial; Reflecting Pool Renovations Again; Vance Won't Throw Carlson Under the Bus. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 04, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Organizations and figures at this moment. And so it remains to be seen if someone like Elon Musk inserting himself into races is going to actually be beneficial, or if it gives a gift to Democrats.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: OK.

DAVID AVELLA, CHAIRMAN, GOPAC: Or if George Soros inserts himself, as he has done with his network for Democrats and --

CORNISH: You better hope, my friend, because it -- we're reporting on this one happening right now.

Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, the president's rush to finish his ballroom. We're going to talk to a journalist who actually got to take a look around with the president, heard what he hopes to do with the project, how Trump hopes that the project outlasts him.

And the president still has a battle going on when it comes to mail in voting. There is a judge keeping the president's new rules on hold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:12]

CORNISH: So, the Supreme Court, this week, told the White House that they can keep working on that ballroom, even though the legality of it is still up for debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Our Constitution is emphatically clear that Congress controls federal buildings. If the president can bulldoze the East Wing, he can bulldoze the West Wing, he can burn down the whole White House. It's not up to him. He doesn't own the White House. He doesn't own federal buildings. That's up to the representatives of the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: But if they keep up the pace, the ballroom would be done in the summer of 2028. At least that's what the president says. And that would be just six months before he would be set to leave office.

So, what happens to it if Democrats take control? In a new in-depth article in "New York Mag," one senior White House official poses this question, quote, "are Democrats going to come in and rip it down? I have a hard time believing that."

Well, joining me now, the author of that article, Ben Terris is here. He's the Washington correspondent at "New York Magazine."

You got to do something no one has really got to do, which is to walk around, see what's going on behind the tarps and talk to him. What does he -- how important is the ballroom to him compared to all the other projects, right? There's like an arch that's supposed to go somewhere else. An airport's got to be named after him.

BEN TERRIS, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Yes.

CORNISH: But this is the one where he just hit a wrecking ball to the White House.

TERRIS: Yes, it's incredibly important to him. I mean, he meets on it, you know, once a week or so. He's talking about it all the time. He thinks about it often. It comes up in almost every conversation he has, whether it's like a behind closed doors private conversation with cabinet secretaries. He'll ask their advice about things. When he's giving speeches, he brings it up. When he's talking about policy, he brings it up. It occupies a lot of his mindshare.

CORNISH: Do you get a sense why? Like after walking around with him, do you know why this is such a big deal to him?

TERRIS: Yes, I have a sense. I mean, I asked him about this, right? He cares a lot about legacy. He's talking about his legacy now. He's got two more years left in the White House. And this is a part of his legacy that literally cannot be removed, right. If you implement legislation or sign executive orders, they can get rolled back.

CORNISH: Right, executive orders.

TERRIS: But he's building something that he says can withstand a nuclear blast. He's building this ballroom and this bunker underneath that cannot be destroyed. So, here's he's --

CORNISH: Yes. Here's what a Democrat said about it. This is Jon Ossoff on the campaign trail back in the spring. He's running for Senate in Georgia. Here was his take.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): He's building a monument to himself. But see, Atlanta, he's doing these things now because no one will honor him when he's gone. Because he's a failed president and a national disgrace. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Now, did I read right that you put that exact quote to him?

TERRIS: Yes, I paraphrase. I said, Senator Jon Ossoff said that you're building monuments to yourself because nobody's going to do it when you're gone. How do you respond to that? And he said, he's right, nobody else would do it. I'm the only one who would do it. Once I'm gone -- you know, once I'm gone, nobody else will do it for me. And so, he, you know, he is thinking about what he leaves behind when he leaves.

CORNISH: Meaning he's thinking about leaving, which I think some people would be interested to note.

TERRIS: I think more that he's thinking about how he'll be around forever in certain ways.

CORNISH: OK. How does the public feel about it? Well, when we looked at our most recent polling, 17 percent are like, hey, this is great, 58 percent dissatisfied. And then that 25 percent that just say it doesn't matter, I think, is probably what is keeping this thing going the way it is. I mean, when you think about it, he literally just took a wrecking ball to part of the White House. And there's just a bunch of people who are like, I'm not sure I should care about a building. Why should they?

TERRIS: Well, I talked to a lot of people who care deeply about this for the story, especially Norm Eisen, who I know is on CNN a lot.

CORNISH: Yes.

TERRIS: And he's, you know, doing some legal work trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening. And he says it's very important because it's basically a metaphor for the way in which Donald Trump is acting as president in general. He's unbound. He's not listening to the Constitution. He is not listening to the courts. The, you know, opposition party can't do anything to stop him. And if you want kind of a physical manifestation of the way that he's acting as president, you can see it in the way that he's, you know, renovating Washington.

CORNISH: Yes. It's also interesting if you think about -- I've been thinking a lot about 9/11 and Iraq and like de-baathification or the pulling down of statues. He's sort of -- there's some actions he's taking that are reminiscent of what happens in other countries when a leader comes to power who feels his power is absolute. When the next people come in, you have to decide what to do. Are -- they got a new ballroom now. I don't -- I don't see them pulling it down either. Are you going to go around dragging down metaphorical statues?

[06:40:01]

TERRIS: I asked the president if he was worried that Democrats would take it down, and he basically said, I'd like to see them try. We're building this with concrete made to withstand a nuclear blast. They could come with a jackhammer and spend two days blasting a column for two straight days, and it wouldn't leave a mark, he said. He's like, if they want to take it down, I'd like to see them try.

CORNISH: OK, Ben, thank you so much for sharing your reporting. You guys can read that story, out now. You're probably going to see it in some of your group chats.

In the meantime, on CNN THIS MORNING, we're going to talk about one of his other projects. One that's really not going well. The Reflecting Pool. There's a new person hired to fix it. He's had some legal troubles. So, how does the White House explain this one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tucker's a friend despite the fact that we disagree on a number of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Tucker Carlson says Trump should be removed from office. Vice President Vance says Tucker's a friend. So, how does he square that with a president who puts a premium on loyalty?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:02]

CORNISH: So, in just a few hours, the judge in the Lindsay Clancy case expected to address one juror after a note came forward yesterday that they were the holdout in the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN REDDINGTON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR LINDSAY CLANCY: There's one juror who refuses to listen to the law that you've given him or her on reasonable doubt.

My motion is to remove this juror that refuses to listen to your instruction on reasonable doubt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Now, remember, these jurors have spent more than 36 hours deliberating whether Clancy should be held criminally responsible for the killing of her children. They have told the judge that they're deadlocked. And now, with one juror in the spotlight, is this going to head towards a mistrial?

So, we're bringing in Faye Hoenig. She's a jury consultant.

So, we know what the defense thinks. They want to use this as an excuse to maybe bring in an alternate. But can you talk about the feasibility of that? Does it seem like that's something the judge would do?

FAYE HONIG, JURY CONSULTANT: Yes. So, it really depends on what happens when we speak to the juror. So, there's a couple of situations that can happen. They've, as you said, identified the juror. We're going to be hearing from them in just a couple of hours. So, it's very exciting. The judge is going to ask questions, keep it to a very narrow focus to understand the situation. If the juror understands the jury instruction and is not following it intentionally, that's an issue. And that's a situation where the judge could very well bring in another alternate juror. If the -- if the juror understands the jury instructions and feels like they're following -- truly feels like they're following it due to a genuinely held belief, that's not an issue. Disagreeing with your other jurors is not grounds for removal. So, we really just are waiting to hear what the juror says.

CORNISH: So, help me understand how the judge handles this. I assume he comes out, gives instructions around whatever question they want, but doesn't it end in kind of a yes or no? Do you understand this or not? He's not there to sort of be like, no, do you really understand? What about this or that?

HONIG: Yes, it's a really tough situation for the judge. And he's doing what he needs to do, even though it's frustrating the public. He said yesterday he can't agree with one side or the other. The defense clearly thinks that this juror is a pro-state holdout and wants them off and wants to bring in a new alternate. The state, obviously, disagrees and wants it to continue and understands that it could very well end in a mistrial, but that's not a pro-defense verdict for them, right?

So, the juror -- the judge has to ask narrow questions. He can't lead the juror to an answer. So, it has to be a very narrow focus. It likely will be yes or no answers. And we have to take the juror for their word. Right now it's 11 against one. There's clearly been tensions in the courtroom. And the foreperson wrote a note complaining about this juror. So, it's either they've been, you know, dug in for days, as we know, they sent the juror note days ago. So, I can't imagine much will change but we just -- we really just don't know what's going on in that jury room. And frankly, unless they talk to the 11 other jurors, we may never know.

CORNISH: Meanwhile, it's nine women, three men on this jury. The options that they could do, find her guilty of various things, whether it's first degree murder or manslaughter. They can, of course, find her not guilty. Or they could find her not guilty by lack of criminal responsibility. And what awaits them afterwards? People want to know who they are, right? We've already had someone trying to take their picture.

HONIG: Yes. Yes, so in a case like this, it's likely we may hear from the jury, especially since they've been in the jury deliberations room for so long. And people want to know. I'm sure people will be reaching out to them. We'll have to see if the judge lets the parties reach out to them. You have to follow the judge's instructions. There are cases where you can poll the jury so you know who you want to talk to. But this -- we could get some interviews with these jurors, and people are really dying to know what happened in that room.

CORNISH: All right, in the meantime, judge's instructions today. Faye, we will be watching. Thank you for this context.

I want to bring you guys up to speed on one other construction project from the White House. There's this twist in the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool water saga. So, the Trump administration, they've hired a new contractor, American AG Energy. They're going to give them $2.7 million to clean and maintain the pool over the next year. This is the twist. Last year, the CEO of that company was convicted of voter fraud for casting ballots twice in the 2016 election, once in Massachusetts and once in New Hampshire.

So, this conviction actually was overturned over rulings about evidence in the case. The charges, however, could be refiled.

And the group chat is back.

I have to admit, I have been shocked at the lack of interest in the first contractor of the Reflecting Pool, given what Jeanine Pirro's office said, calling the contract job "botched." And right now, repainting and waterproofing it, it's costing us $14 million, water purification, $1.7 million and algae mitigation and equipment rebuilding, $2.7 million.

[06:50:05]

What is going -- does the White House -- are they happy about this? Are they -- like, where are we on this?

ELENA SCHNEIDER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "NOTUS": Well, look, famously, the president is somebody, as you just had in your last segment, loves to build things, loves to put his name on things. He initially put this at $2 to $3 million. Now there's acknowledgment it could go up to $20 million.

CORNISH: He put it at what?

SCHNEIDER: I can't imagine --

CORNISH: It was $2 million before?

SCHNEIDER: He initially had said that updating the Reflecting Pool could cost anywhere from $2 to $3 million months ago.

CORNISH: That's not even going to cover the algae now.

SCHNEIDER: I -- so, exactly.

CORNISH: OK.

SCHNEIDER: And I am sure that he is not pleased about the fact that this is going over budget and way long. No contractor likes to do that.

But nonetheless, this is part of his M.O. of what this administration has been all about. He has spent millions on recasting the stone horses that are in front of the Lincoln Memorial, covering them in gold. There's talk of an arch -- you know, the arch is going in. CORNISH: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: So, he's trying to put his imprint on all parts of, not just the White House, but the broader D.C. area.

CORNISH: I know.

SCHNEIDER: And --

CORNISH: We had Ben Terris here from "New York Magazine" earlier talking about the ballroom, right? And he was saying how this is such a symbol for Trump of his legacy and things like that. And for the critics of it, it's a symbol of the way he's treated his second term.

For me, the symbol of the Reflecting Pool is a rake. It's stepping on a rake. It's like unnecessary, self-own, and it's costing everyone money and none of it had to happen.

AVELLA: Sure. Presidents since 1920 have been stepping on that rake. I mean, you're looking at a Reflecting Pool that was built on the Potomac River mudflat, which shifts and you get cracks. And we have been dealing --

CORNISH: But if you promise to fix it, then fix it.

AVELLA: Well, so, are you advocating that we get rid of the pool? That it's been such a problem since --

CORNISH: It looks like we're halfway there.

AVELLA: Been such a problem since 1927. Maybe it's time to rip it up.

CORNISH: But why not --

AVELLA: Maybe we have a pond. Maybe we have a --

CORNISH: Well, how come no one's checking into this contractor if everyone says it was a botched job?

AVELLA: Well, so the -- is the issue the contractor or is the issue the Reflecting Pool's mess up?

CORNISH: It's the person who messed up the Reflecting Pool. Those sentences go together, you know?

AVELLA: OK. Well, there's nothing saying that person won't be held accountable. There's nothing saying --

CORNISH: There is? When?

AVELLA: Well, that's not my place to say what the administration may do or how they may go after this guy, or what refunds they may see for the botched job, right? I mean --

CORNISH: Yes, someone owes us $18 million.

Lulu.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. So, I hate to bring it back to politics, but it's a nightmare for Republicans in a cycle where everyone is struggling to pay their bills. And the only thing the president wants to talk about is his construction projects in Washington, D.C.

If you live in D.C. --

CORNISH: We should say, the president's going on the road. He may talk about other things.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: He may -- he may. Well, it's hard because even when reportedly people go to the Oval Office to talk about other things like the war or what's happening at the Department of War, the department -- the DOD, he just wants to talk about the ballroom. I mean, that is reportedly the only thing he is interested in at this moment, in between his naps.

And so, what I would say is that you are seeing the American people reflected in his poll numbers, saying, why aren't you focused on the things that we care about? Why are we having to talk about the Reflecting Pool? Why do we have to talk about the ballroom, where you can entertain your very wealthy friends that don't impact me?

CORNISH: Right.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Why are we talking about you putting up a giant arch in Washington, D.C., a city that I probably may never visit? You know, why are you only obsessed with your legacy and you're not interested in helping my pocketbook?

CORNISH: Well, even if they don't say that, they certainly would be saying the first part, right, why aren't you doing the things that I care about? And I think that is something that is very important in terms of coming into these midterms, where the president says he wants to make it about himself.

So, the messenger matters, right? Who's talking about things to voters matters. And people like Tucker Carlson have been a bit of a thorn in the side for this White House. J.D. Vance is standing by him, even as the conservative influencer, who claims to have left the party, is calling for Trump's removal from office and has been insulting the Republican's choice for Senate in Michigan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON: Mike Rogers --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CARLSON: Is really -- I wouldn't vote for Mike Rogers at gunpoint.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody knows that Tucker Carlson and I are friends, and I think it's very obvious that Tucker has said some things that I disagree with.

I think El-Sayed's a crazy person. And I think whatever your views on Mike Rogers specific policy prescriptions, I'd like to have a non- crazy person like Mike Rogers representing Michigan in the United States Senate, rather than a crazy person like El-Sayed.

I'm not going to play the game where I throw friends under the bus because I have political disagreements with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: All right, the reason why I wanted to talk about this is because I noticed this comment online, Mark Levin, he's pro-Israel. Like, he's a supporter of the war in Iran. Tucker isn't. But he says this, "the president himself has condemned Tucker repeatedly. Is there loyalty for Carlton greater than for the president? Do they have no self-respect? Tucker Carlson has become a litmus test of sorts. If you're a rational, upright, decent and principled person, you have nothing but contempt for him and what he represents."

[06:55:08]

Litmus test.

AVELLA: No. And the vice president said, you can be friends with someone and not agree. And I know that's not in vogue these days.

CORNISH: No.

AVELLA: And you look at where Americans are kind of now living, where they agree exactly with the people that are their neighbors.

CORNISH: Yes.

AVELLA: That we are self-selecting who we hang out with. That's not always --

(CROSS TALK)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But the bigger problem is -- the problem -- the problem with Tucker Carlson, I've interviewed him, I've sat with him, and with the vice president, it's not just the relationship. There's two things happening here.

The first thing is, the litmus test isn't just about Tucker Carlson criticizing the president. The litmus test is that people see Tucker Carlson as anti-Semitic. That he is dealing with anti-Semitic tropes. He is having Holocaust deniers.

CORNISH: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) and others have spoken about this.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. And so -- and so the litmus test isn't just about Tucker Carlson. The litmus test is about where he stands and the kinds of conspiracy theories he embraces according to those who oppose him.

The other point that I'll make is that J.D. Vance is trying to have it both ways here. This is all about post-Trump, right? This is about looking at the wing of the party that Tucker Carlson is trying to embody and trying to represent, or at least embrace that wing of the party. Am I -- do I have that right?

AVELLA: I -- you said it well. But let me add that what J.D. Vance will ultimately have to do is say where he is on the issue. He doesn't have to agree with Tucker Carlson.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's true.

AVELLA: He can be friends with Tucker Carlson. At some point he's going to have to say, do I agree with Tucker on some of the things he says? Just as, an example on the other side, as El-Sayed now is having to decide how close he wants to be with his friend Hasan Piker, right? It's --

CORNISH: Yes, it's interesting because Vance started the week going to the Republican Jewish Coalition meeting. Laura Loomer and others were there. And they asked him directly, people are trafficking in anti- Semitic tropes online. You don't seem to be denouncing them. And after the meeting, I didn't see people hailing his answer on that. He, again, tried to have it both ways.

SCHNEIDER: So, I think that Trump is paper and has papered over for years the divisions within the Republican Party on things like interventionist foreign policy, for or against, and that is --

CORNISH: Yes. And that they bent the knee, right? Like they --

SCHNEIDER: And -- exactly.

CORNISH: Tucker was in the tent.

SCHNEIDER: And that is now going to burst into the open the moment that this president turns into a lame duck president and the 2028 presidential campaign begins on the Republican side, which is wide open. Certainly, J.D. Vance is considered a top potential contender, should he want to seek it. And as David said, he's going to have to start making clear what his own positions are on some of these issues. And he wants to protect that flank that he was a part of for a significant period of time and doesn't want to necessarily lose.

CORNISH: OK. So, since we're all very online, along with our vice president, what is in your group chat?

AVELLA: Beyonce. We -- the --

CORNISH: Didn't see that coming.

AVELLA: The Avella family are big beehivers.

CORNISH: Are they?

AVELLA: Oh, absolutely. CORNISH: So, you're down for this anniversary album, I assume?

AVELLA: Absolutely. And Beyonce was part of our wedding. We played Beyonce at my wife and I's wedding. And, look, this is a lady --

CORNISH: Like your first dance or -- I need context.

AVELLA: A --

CORNISH: Like, she was doing "All the Single Ladies" and things? No, what --

AVELLA: No, "Halo."

CORNISH: Oh, "Halo."

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I love that song.

SCHNEIDER: Awe.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's a great wedding song.

CORNISH: It's a great wedding song.

AVELLA: And, look, this is a 99 nominations for awards.

CORNISH: Yes.

AVELLA: Thirty-five -- I mean, go down through all of her accomplishments. "Trailblazer" with putting her album on iTunes, which was not done. She is a -- quite the, I would offer, GOAT in the music industry.

CORNISH: Look at this. I'm bringing you back Grammy's week. You got to make the case here.

AVELLA: Yes.

CORNISH: OK.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: All right, I also have a pop star that I am elevating. Miley Cyrus just has announced her new album. But there is something else she's announced, which is that she is no longer going to be Miley Cyrus, she is simply going to be Miley, or La Miley, as I like to call it.

CORNISH: I mean, she's reached that status.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's the whole thing, right?

CORNISH: Yes, that's not a stretch.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: She -- but there's been a little bit of controversy because people said she has had problems with her family in the past. There has been rumors of divisions, especially with her father.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Her father went -- took to social media and said, we are great. Everything's fine. I think Miley has reached the status of Dolly Parton, Cher. She should just be Miley. Lose the Cyrus. It's all good.

CORNISH: We're here for it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I concur.

CORNISH: We're here for it. I concur. Yes.

SCHNEIDER: This is a table of Beyonce as wedding songs, because ours was an acoustic version of "EO." So, you really do have to bring us back for Grammy week.

CORNISH: An acoustic version. I love it.

SCHNEIDER: I know. It was beautiful.

CORNISH: So classy.

SCHNEIDER: So, my group chat is talking about the U.S. Open. And not just the tennis, which is a ton of fun.

CORNISH: Yes, the fashion. See, the fashion.

SCHNEIDER: But the fashion.

CORNISH: Oh my God, I guess.

SCHNEIDER: The fashion.

And Naomi Osaka just looks phenomenal. I mean she's honoring Allen Iverson, the NBA superstar.

CORNISH: Yes. Unexpected.

SCHNEIDER: But she came out with Thom Browne in this like all white trench coat with little, like, beaded tennis rackets on it. I mean she just looks amazing. And I love --

CORNISH: Yes. Also, fashion in tennis has always been so loaded.

SCHNEIDER: Right.

CORNISH: Culturally loaded because of the whole all white, blah, blah, blah.

[07:00:00]

And men, women, whoever, as soon as they started showing some personality, there's been this constant dialog about what's OK, what's not OK.

SCHNEIDER: And I think that she has leaned into it and sort of exploded it in some ways.

CORNISH: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: I mean, like Venus and Serena also have done this kind of stuff with their fashion. And I love that we get to see --

CORNISH: But she's a fashion girly.

SCHNEIDER: Totally.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: La Roche presser (ph).

SCHNEIDER: Yes, La Roche (ph) did it. Yes.

CORNISH: Yes, exactly.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Amazing.

SCHNEIDER: But I love seeing multifaceted sort of people on the court in a very cool way. And I think she's really leading that.

CORNISH: Well, listen, if you're a Beyonce fan, welcome. Welcome to the chat. I'm Audie Cornish. The headlines are next.