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CNN Tonight
Extreme Weather; Climate Change Deal; FDA Foul Play?; Political Games; Medicine for the Mind
Aired December 18, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, a green deal in Copenhagen, President Obama calling the agreement a breakthrough on climate change. But is it good for you?
Just in time for the holidays, the East Coast bracing for a major winter storm, up to two feet of snow expected in some places. The effects, though, could be felt across the country. We'll get you the very latest forecast.
Also, allegations of foul play, the plan to bring in cheaper prescription drugs from overseas now dead -- were the White House and the FDA playing dirty politics behind the scene?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN TONIGHT live from New York. Here now Erica Hill.
HILL: Good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us on CNN TONIGHT. As we mentioned, a major winter storm now on track for the northeast. The resulting chaos, though, on this the last weekend before Christmas could frankly stretch across the country. Winter storm warnings are now in effect from the Carolinas all the way up to Connecticut. That same storm system has already flooded homes and stranded drivers in South Florida. Meteorologist Chad Myers joining us now from the CNN Weather Center with the latest on the storm's path. And Chad, I feel I keep hearing that the snow is coming earlier and earlier to New York City now.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it'll be there -- it'll be tomorrow night, though, probably a little bit after dark. It'll be flurries before then, but once it starts, wow, is it just going to come down? There's a live shot right there, WVIR Charlottesville. You can see about a quarter mile, earlier we could see the rooftops here, not much more than lights now.
And now we take you to TVR, that's Richmond, Virginia. That's where I used to work, the south's first television station. That right there, that is the airport. So here's what we have going for you right now. The snow sneaking up into D.C. at this point. It has been snowing all day into places like Asheville -- Asheville now at eight inches of snow, although the snow will be pulling out rather quickly for you, Asheville and then eventually on up into D.C. heavy, Philadelphia heavy, and New York City heavy.
Now there's going to be a huge line, a big significant line where the weather is from ugly to just wet. And it may only take 60 to 100 miles, somewhere around Fredericksburg back toward and east of Blacksburg and then down toward Atlanta. If you are south of that line, you're going to get all rain, maybe rain mixed with snow a little bit. If you are north of that line and you're going to see 12 to 20 and some spots could see literally more than 20.
Some of the computer models have been printing out 25 and 30 for localized areas, especially in the mountains around Front Roil (ph), Charlottesville, and the like. It just depends how long this storm hangs around, how much snow you're going to get before it exits out to the ocean and moves away even from Boston, so what are we talking about really? We're talking about a storm that comes out of the Gulf of Mexico and runs up the east coast.
Almost a nor'easter, but I'm not going to go quite that far with it. I'm not going to call it a nor'easter because it didn't really shape up that way, but it's grabbing energy off the ocean and that energy off the ocean is going to be the moisture that it puts down to make all of the snow. And we talked to American Airlines, talked to Delta, talked to all the airlines, even Airtran today and they said that literally today and tomorrow are their big days.
Not going to be Monday or Tuesday, they are more booked this weekend than all the way through the rest of next week. So you put all of that snow down in airports and it's going to slow down. Atlanta, you have low clouds, Charlotte, the ice is already here, and O'Hare at low clouds at all. But I'll tell you what; I wouldn't want to fly a plane into that, would you? I wouldn't want to even be in a plane where the pilot has to look at that and find the runway somewhere in there -- Erica.
HILL: I'm supposed to be on a plane tomorrow. I don't know about that, Chad, I'm with you. All right...
MYERS: Where are you going?
HILL: Off to Indianapolis.
MYERS: It'll be good there.
HILL: OK, good. I'm going to take your word for it. Otherwise I know where you live. Chad Myers, thanks.
MYERS: You bet.
HILL: Meantime, there's an agreement tonight in Copenhagen, but it did not come easy -- President Obama emerging from closed-door meetings just a few hours ago to announce what he called an unprecedented breakthrough. But there are some very real questions about just how effective this agreement will be and frankly how effective the entire global summit on climate change was. Ed Henry joining us now from Copenhagen -- Ed, and the issue there really is the words -- are the words non-binding. ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Erica. And that's why we're already seeing some top environmental groups back in the United States already charging this is hallow, not worth the paper that it's written on. Nevertheless, a dramatic last-minute gamut by President Obama flying in here to Copenhagen aboard Air Force One, sleeping all night to get here for basically a full day, hit the ground running and try to work behind the scenes and hammer out this agreement.
What does it do? Basically the leaders led by the president agreeing to limit the planet's warming to no more than two degrees Celsius over the next decade. But as you noted the key is that there are no legally binding targets to actually cut carbon emissions and the president acknowledged there's a long way to go here, even as he claimed it's a major breakthrough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it is going to be very hard and it's going to take some time. Let me sort of provide the context for what I saw when I arrived. And I think it's important to be able to stand in the shoes of all of the different parties involved here. In some ways, the United States was coming with a somewhat clean slate because we had been on the sidelines in many of these negotiations over several years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: What's interesting is that Republicans back in the United States are already charging that they fear there'll be taxes raised if the president moves forward with climate change legislation on Capitol Hill to try to enforce some of the commitments made here in this agreement. But meanwhile, on the left, there are a lot of environmental groups in the United States and around the world some of them here in Copenhagen charging it doesn't go far enough, the complete opposite criticism being leveled at the president.
I spoke to Fred Krupp of the Environmental Defense Fund, he basically said that while he thinks it's a positive step forward, it's still not adequate. A lot more needs to be done. And really a withering statement from Greenpeace, the environmental group saying that this is quote, "not fair, not ambitious, and not legally binding." Adding quote, "we have seen a year of crises, but today it is clear that the biggest one facing humanity is a leadership crisis" and that's why as Air Force One heads back to the Washington area now to try to beat that storm that you were talking about, this just shows and underlines the president has a big sales job yet to do in the United States and around the world to prove that in fact this agreement is going to have some teeth -- Erica.
HILL: Yes, definitely a lot of proof there and boy that is a biting statement from Greenpeace tonight. Ed, thanks and safe travels to you as you head back, as well.
HENRY: Thank you. HILL: Well the road of course to this agreement in Copenhagen was actually far from smooth, the chaos even extending to the Press Corps at one point. Check out these frustrating moments today for White House spokesman Robert Gibbs who had some problems securing access for the American press. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to get my American guys in because everybody else got in.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those guys didn't get in. Those guys didn't get in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My guys get in just like your guys got in. This is a joint meeting. My guys get in or we're leaving the meeting.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American press (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I did not get in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy didn't get in. Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: A lot of not getting in there -- Robert Gibbs earning his money at that point. The president, meantime, as we heard from Ed is celebrating what he sees as a deal on climate change tonight. But is it actually -- it is far less we should point out than what the White House initially wanted as Ed had mentioned. Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley joining us now from Washington.
So Candy, when it comes to the grand scheme of things for the president, this seems to be what we hear a lot of these days. Well, something is better than nothing. So how significant is this non- binding agreement?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you pretty much have it wrapped up there. You know, when I was growing in the Midwest, my father had this expression, well it's better than a kick in the teeth. And certainly the president would've had a kick in the teeth had he come home from Copenhagen with nothing. But if you look at this we had 119 nations agreeing on something.
Right away you know if 119 nations sort of agree on something, it's not much. It's just hard to do that. So if they're going to list as they say they will what their goals are and they've all agreed to, you know, to the two Celsius measurement over the next 10 to 20 years. So if they all agree then and if an economic crisis comes up in one of them, what are the chances they are going to stick with a non-binding agreement on global warming when their economy is in danger? Not much.
But, look, a lot of these things, we don't know if they're going to be historic breakthrough, which they're calling this or a big first step. Let's see what happens. If in a year, suddenly they build on this and there's a signed agreement, we'll all look back and say, wow, that really was a historic breakthrough. I just think most people have a problem calling it history in the making until we see what history makes.
HILL: Is part of the problem, though, what we touched on off the top, the fact that it has been a very tough year for the president. He's offered some very large goals of things he wanted to accomplish and hasn't made a lot of head way. So does that also take away from this?
CROWLEY: I think not. Look, this president -- this is a president who came into office and wanted to do big things. He goes all in. He wants to be a transformational president. He does not want to be an incremental president, so you have a big health care bill. You have a big taunt about an energy bill, which fits into the subject of climate change. He has -- I mean the people that ought to be worried right now really are the Democrats up for reelection next year.
The president has three more years, maybe two and a half to get together a list of accomplishments. What, of course, the Democrats on the Hill fear when they look back at some of the things that have not been done that they are the ones that are going to pay the price in 2010. The president has some time. But partially, he's a victim of his own large goals. Large goals take a while to get to.
HILL: All right. And we'll be watching the progress along with you, Candy, thanks as always. We're going to have much more on the impact of both the agreement on climate change. We'll talk a little bit more about that health care. Candy touched on that. What all this could mean for Americans. That's coming up later in the broadcast. We'll be joined by two leading experts on climate change.
Also, did dirty politics kill legislation which would've OK'd importing less expensive prescription drugs into the country? The FDA joined the White House and big Pharma to stop that measure. But now the senator behind that plan says there may have been foul play here. Louise Schiavone takes a look at the allegations. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A bipartisan effort in the Senate this week to open the nation's doors to pharmaceutical imports seem to be on track with this campaign trail rallying cry from then candidate Barack Obama.
OBAMA: Then we'll tell the pharmaceutical companies thanks, but no thanks for overpriced drugs.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Drugs that cost twice as much here as they do in Europe and Canada and Mexico. We'll let Medicare negotiate for lower prices. We'll allow the safe re-importation of low cost drugs from countries like Canada.
SCHIAVONE: A little more than a year after that campaign stop in Newport News, Virginia, the head of President Obama's Food and Drug Administration urged a no vote on a drug imports bill proposed by North Dakota Senate Democrat Byron Dorgan. Commissioner Margaret Hamburg raising quote, "significant safety concerns" and calling the measure quote, "logistically challenging to implement and resource intensive", end quote. Former Democratic congressional staffer David Sirota now a left of center political analyst says the Dorgan amendment would've achieved the goals of candidate Obama.
DAVID SIROTA, AUTHOR: Many of the drugs that people consume at their pharmacy right now are made not in this country. What this bill merely would have done would allow wholesalers and pharmacists to buy those drugs at the international world market price, a lower price than they're being sold here.
SCHIAVONE: The Dorgan proposal, with some Republican backing would've permitted licensed U.S. pharmacies and drug wholesalers to import FDA approved drugs from Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland and Japan, passing along the savings to consumers, savings which Dorgan says could have been in the tens of billions of dollars over the next 10 years. Those savings are no small matter to the National Research Center for Women and Families.
DIANA ZUCKERMAN, NATL. RESEARCH CENTER FOR WOMEN AND FAMILIES: We were hoping that the time had come when the American public and our public health would be the first priority not the interests of drug companies. And that's the biggest disappointment that the drug companies -- their lobbyists as usual have had their say much more so than they deserve.
SCHIAVONE: The Center for Responsive Politics finds that from 1998 to the present, the pharmaceuticals and health products business was the top spending lobby, investing more than $1.7 billion. The industry leads the pack this year with expenditures so far listed at nearly $200 million. Pharma, the pharmaceutical lobby's main voice offered no apologies telling CNN quote, "the Dorgan amendment was defeated because common sense people recognize there is no way to guarantee the safety and efficacy of medicines brought into the United States outside of the FDA's control", end quote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: In the wake of his amendment's defeat, Senator Dorgan has chosen not to comment. The FDA says safety concerns about drug imports are nothing new and the White House just told me that President Obama still thinks drug importation could work as long as his concerns about safety are satisfied -- Erica.
HILL: All right, Louise. Thanks. We'll continue to watch that.
Meantime, the nation's capital today taking a major step toward legalizing gay marriage -- Washington, D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty signing that measure, which recognizes same-sex marriages as legal in the district. The City Council passed the bill on Tuesday. The measure will now head to Congress for a 30-day review period. That's because Congress actually has the final say over laws passed by Washington City Council. If this bill becomes law, Washington would join Massachusetts, Vermont, Iowa, and New Hampshire in legalizing gay marriage.
Just ahead, what company won't be advertising during this year's Super Bowl for the first time in nearly a quarter century.
Plus, controversy over a college Bowl game, this time though it has nothing to do with the national champion, so what is it about the Fiesta Bowl that has it in the middle of a partisan political scandal?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: People around the U.S. preparing for another time-honored holiday tradition, those impassioned debates over whether the Bowl Championship Series actually decides the true champion of college football, except that when it comes to the Fiesta Bowl this year, the debate is of a different flavor, the political kind. Here's Bill Tucker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here come the Ohio State Buckeyes.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Fiesta Bowl is one of the premiere college football Bowl games. It's also important to the local economy of Phoenix, Arizona, and the surrounding communities -- the Bowl brings in some $200 million plus say local officials. According to the "Arizona Republic" newspaper it's also produced some questionable and possibly illegal campaign donations. Acting on a tip from anonymous sources described as high-level employees of the Bowl, the paper reports...
CRAIG HARRIS, ARIZONA REPUBLIC: We've looked at a 10-year period of campaign contributions made at local races for mayor, city council, and suburbs of Phoenix. We looked at state legislative races. We also looked at congressional races. And over the 10 years we saw there was a pattern of at least a dozen times where three or more employees gave campaign contributions to the same candidate on the same day. Many of the contributions were for the same amount of money.
TUCKER: The newspaper reports employees of the Bowl made campaign donations to specific candidates totaling $38,000 at the urging of the Bowl's CEO John Junker. Those employees say they were then reimbursed for the donations. The Fiesta Bowl's CEO denies that ever happened. The Bowl officials refuse CNN's request for an interview. And a spokesman said the organization would have no comment on the story.
The state's elections director says a review is being done to determine whether to proceed with an investigation saying quote, "we will soon be making a determination whether a reasonable cause finding will be forwarded to the attorney general's office." The "Arizona Republic" is a sponsor of the Fiesta Bowl. Its publisher is on the Bowl's Board of Directors. The paper says it stands 100 percent behind its Fiesta Bowl story.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, as for Frito-Lay, lead sponsor of the Bowl, a spokesman for the company says this issue is not related to the company sponsorship. The company says it's focused on celebrating the January 4th game between TCU and Boise State, Erica, which of course TCU will win.
HILL: It's good to have your prediction now.
TUCKER: Well you know...
HILL: I need to know that...
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: ... for the impassioned debates coming up over the holidays. Are there any other allegations of impropriety among or surrounding any other Bowl game?
TUCKER: No, there are not. I mean these Bowls compete heavily with each other to be part of the BCS. This definitely hurts the Fiesta Bowl's image, but you know Frito-Lay obviously is saying look, it's about the game and we have nothing to do with any of that.
HILL: Right.
TUCKER: And there aren't any other similar allegations anywhere else.
HILL: And of course the real headline here is that you're calling TCU.
TUCKER: I'm calling TCU. Being from Texas, I have to go TCU...
HILL: You kind of do.
TUCKER: Yes I do.
HILL: It's true -- Bill, thanks.
Well another big game coming up, first weekend of February, the first time in 23 years though Pepsi won't be showing ads during the Super Bowl. While the company concedes the Super Bowl is quote "an amazing stage for advertisers", they went on to say that brands should not blindly anchor themselves to history. Pepsi's ads during last year Super Bowl featured celebrities including super star Justin Timberlake, that game drew 97.5 million viewers. Of course the ad time though does not come cheap. Pepsi says it now plans to focus on a new online campaign called the Pepsi Fresh Project (INAUDIBLE) grant money to charity.
Laredo, Texas, population 250,000, about to become the largest city in this country without a bookstore -- Barnes and Noble is shutting down the local B Dalton bookstore there. So that means the nearest remaining book seller -- check out that map there -- now it to be found in San Antonio, it's more than 150 miles away. The city's head librarian Marie Seliz (ph) told us tonight community leaders are launching LaredoReads.com.
It's part of an effort to bring a book seller back to town. The residents can of course order books online; they can go to the library. Many of them though feel the lack of a physical store frankly isn't good for the city's reputation. Librarian Seliz (ph) is hopeful however. She believes the city can support a bookstore. The City Council on Monday is expected to pass a resolution supporting the movement to bring a bookstore back to Laredo. We'll check in on that.
Coming up, the climate change debate -- we'll be joined by two leading experts with two very different thoughts on the issue and on the new agreement in Copenhagen. Plus the art of healing -- how a canvas full of love really does help the medicine go down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: While the health care debate rages in Washington, people outside the halls of Congress are doing their part to find inventive ways to make sure the sick are cared for, especially children. The treatment may sound unconventional, but to many patients, they just love the outlet. It's called art therapy. Lisa Sylvester has the remarkable story of Tracy's Kids.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jingle bells...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like a lot of jingles...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jingle bells, jingle all the way.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pink is Elle Howdershell's (ph) favorite color. She wears it just about everywhere she goes. Today Elle is working on a new play house, a place of fun, imagination, her own little getaway at the Georgetown University Lombardi Cancer Center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you like coming here, Elle?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you like best about coming here?
ELLE HOWDERSHELL, 7-YEAR-OLD: Because you have fun.
SYLVESTER: Diagnosed when she was just 5 with a benign brain tumor, Elle at 7 is still undergoing treatment. Art is used to help put her and other young patients at ease.
BRIAN HOWDERSHELL, ELLE'S FATHER: The art really here does, it's a very soothing thing for her, I think and it's a good -- it's -- for her it's something that really occupies her mind of really what she has to do, what we're really here for. And it's a good thing. It really is a good thing.
SYLVESTER: In the Washington, D.C. area, Tracy Council has started Tracy's Kids, an art therapy program that relies on private donations, colorful wall and ceiling tiles, sculptures, paintings. It's an expression of the high and low points of the children's lives. This month their artwork is being showcased at the D.C.'s Carroll Square Gallery.
TRACY COUNCIL, TRACY'S KIDS: I mean color's a language for kids, you know. Color is very, very expressive.
SYLVESTER: This one is a poem called Pincushion. It hits home for Matt Gerson who raises funds for Tracy's Kids. As a child he was diagnosed with cancer.
MATT GERSON, CANCER SURVIVOR: I remember that so vividly. They take your blood, they infuse you. They're constantly trying to find little veins in little children and this girl describes it as being a pincushion. Poke and stick, that's me. Pincushion, that's me.
SYLVESTER: While some of the art is sad, most is uplifting, hopeful.
(on camera): You know one of the things that strike me is that this is a happy place, that despite the fact that you've got kids who have serious illnesses that this is actually a happy, bright place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's because kids just see it that way. You know we give them a chance to just be a kid and not be a patient.
SYLVESTER (voice-over): The children in Tracy's program probably can't control what will happen in their future, but art therapy helps now become a little more beautiful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And according to Tracy Council, more than 70 percent of the kids diagnosed with cancer nationwide recover fully. Tracy's Kids relies on private donors, but the Art Therapy Association is pushing to expand programs like these to have federal research grants to try to bring art therapy into even more communities -- Erica.
HILL: And clearly it's having such an impact -- Lisa, thanks.
Still ahead, the future of the Senate health care bill remains uncertain, so what does that say about the president's political clout?
Plus, the president announcing a non-binding agreement this afternoon on climate change, critics already weighing in though, saying frankly this doesn't change much. Two leading experts on climate change join us to weigh in on what they think of the Copenhagen agreement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN TONIGHT, live from New York. Here again, Erica Hill.
HILL: Joining me now, all CNN contributors, Miguel Perez, syndicated columnist and professor at Lehman College, Errol Louis, columnist for the "New York Daily News" and Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist. Here to talk a little politics, especially as we near the end of the year for President Obama.
I want to start, though, tonight with climate change, because earlier today, obviously, the president coming out saying we have this agreement, calling it an unprecedented breakthrough.
Errol, I'll start with you tonight on this. Before we get into the agreement itself, how badly did the president need this?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": I think he needed to get something. And this reflects the kind of different calculus that the White House has than the rest of us. You know, we're all looking at health care reform, climate change, and other goals. We compare it to what he said on the campaign trail, we compare it to what all of the pundits say and what all of the professors say. They're using political calculus. He needed something and so he got something, and he wasn't going to leave without something. And, you know, what it means for him politically will be different than what it means for the climate, for example.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: What he needs to do is equate the critical issues around climate change to jobs in America, to our economy, to being free of the -- being dependent on foreign oil. And that's his great challenge to make this issue a reality. And a most recent poll came out to show that the country's support on him on global warming declined from 61 percent to 45 percent. Now, I admire him for taking on an issue that is not necessarily popular at home. And if we let polls guide us, FDR never would have fought World War II. But, that's a fact. But, now the issue is making clear why this is critical to our economy and that's the White House's critical challenge.
HILL: And the economy, at least for most Americans is still issue No. 1. Miguel, does this translate, you know, Robert was pointing out some of the hurdles, there, in making this translate for Americans, but on the surface, when you look at this, I mean, does it really mean anything for the U.S. and Americans at home?
MIGUEL PEREZ, LEHMAN COLLEGE: No, not really. But it doesn't mean anything for anyone around the world, either. Specifically, climate change affects the whole world and we all have to sacrifice. I mean, the agreement the president called that unprecedented and it's unprecedented because anything would have been unprecedented at this point. But, he called it meaningful and I don't think it's that meaningful. I think the president looked disappointed when he was speaking because he obviously expected more. Unfortunately he doesn't even have the backing of the Senate right now so that he could go out and be a stronger leader on this issue.
LOUIS: But, you know, his first and most soaring speeches in the early part of the campaign season last year, he said "let this be known as the moment we begin to reverse the heating of the earth" and we were going to do this and do that, and the fierce urgency of now. I mean, he can't now just turn around and say the fierce urgency of whenever. So, he's trying to satisfy the environmental portion of his political base, which is not insignificant.
HILL: Right.
LOUIS: He's trying to do substantively what he said he was going to try and do.
HILL: But, they're not exactly rallying around -- I mean, we heard Ed Henry earlier tonight who's saying I may not have this verbatim, but Green Peace was calling it -- they said it wasn't fair, they said it wasn't ambitious. A number of Democrats saying, you know, does this really amount to anything?
ZIMMERMAN: The Sierra Club, in fact, endorsed it and spoke about it being a positive first step. You know, any time you have 119 nations come together around anything, it's significant. And when they come together, in fact, acknowledge the need to reduce carbon emissions, that's a critical first step.
And so I think there's obviously this agreement has great significance, most importantly, it can motivate the Senate, which has been saying why should we move forward if the developing and developed nations don't also move forward?
HILL: Is it enough, though, is it enough, really, Miguel, to make the Senate move forward? Because, as you mentioned, there's really -- there's not that lot of there, there.
PEREZ: No, no. And if the president -- I mean, even if the Congress passes what they've been talking about, the legislation, the House already passed and the Senate, it's very limited compared to some of the industrialized nations have already vowed to do. So, the president's in between the upcoming nations and the industrialized nations which wanted us to do a lot more. And he's somewhere in the middle trying to sync this balance. What is amazing to me is that this whole thing is looking a lot like the health care reform bill. Because, you know, the meaningful...
HILL: You're stealing my next question, there.
PEREZ: They're diluting this thing to the point where it will be meaningless at the end. That's my concern.
ZIMMERMAN: The bigger problem is for a White House that is so on message and for a president who has been so captivating with his message not to be able to equate either health care to the American economy, the American working family, or to take this issue of climate change and equate it to jobs, equate it to health, equate it to energy independence, the independence of the...
HILL: You know, they've tried it a little bit, I mean, there have certainly been those attempts to make that happen. So, Errol, why haven't they succeeded, then?
LOUIS: Well, I mean, look, the green collar job, which is the connection, right? -- the transformation of the U.S. economy and we'll make solar panels and all of this kind of stuff. That doesn't play on the international stage. I mean, that's really kind of why it falls apart. I mean, this was not the place for that.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: The president said the (INAUDIBLE) is here at home, which really, you know, most people watching tonight, that's what matters more, is how is this going to affect me?
LOUIS: Look, people who didn't go to Copenhagen just to protest and so forth, I think, are going to be somewhat impressed at the depth of what's in that final document, at least the aspirations. And I think for the majority here, I don't think people saw this as a jobs trip. I think people saw this as an opportunity for him to try and live up to some of his campaign...
HILL: I'm going to have you hold that thought because we have to take a quick break, but we're not done. We'll be back to continue talking about this and also what you brought up, as well, Miguel, whether or not this actually, shadows as health care, as well, here. Well, when it comes to the president's agenda. Stay with us, we'll be back with more from our political panel in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Back now with our panel: Robert Zimmerman, Errol Louis., Miguel Perez.
You know, I want to touch on something you brought up before the break which we wanted to touch on, as well, that this agreement, this unprecedented breakthrough, as the president called it earlier, coming out of Copenhagen, there may not be as much substance to it, it's a first step. A lot of people are looking at the health care bill now and saying it's been stripped of so much, there isn't a lot of substance there either. Is that an accurate assessment? MIGUEL: Yes, and the word "meaningful" that the president used today to talk about what happened in Copenhagen is exactly the same word I feel that the Democrats may end up using. Oh, it's a meaningful legislation when in fact it's very diluted and the Republicans can then turn around and say, oh, look at the immigration bill they passed, it's worthless.
HILL: So is it worth it then? We all know we're two weeks away from 2010. But those elections, it's already heating up and you can then turn around and say, oh, look at the immigration bill they passed, it's worthless.
HILL: Right. So, is it worth it then? Because, as we all know we're, what, two weeks away from 2010. But those elections, I mean, it's already heating up and you can tell really when you watch in Washington what a lot of lawmakers are doing, they're concerned about the seat, obviously. So, is it smart, Errol, to continue along this road if you're not getting a lot out of it?
LOUIS: Well, sure, I mean, I don't -- first of all, I don't know what choice you have, you know? I mean, the reality is...
HILL: You can't really stop now.
LOUIS: And not just that, but not every problem will yield, you know, 100 percent to you. You know? And so, you know, they've gotten the first of three closure votes that are going to be used to sort of move the Senate bill through. They're going to get something done, they're going to try and get something done. I understand Congress being nervous.
You know, all -- historically about 16 seats get lost by the president's party in the off year like this and so for them, it's musical chairs. Who's not going to be here next year and they're going to get a little squirrely, but the White House, they're got a whole bunch of achievements that, I think, we're going to see them recapitulate, you know, and remind the nation of the one-year anniversary of the nation approaches.
ZIMMERMAN: On the merits, any health care legislation that, in fact, eliminates discrimination toward women of childbearing years, allowing them to get insurance, blocks individuals being denied insurance for pre-existing conditions, deals with preventive care. These are important, important achievements, legislatively. I don't think they should be diminished, and they certainly are unprecedented. Likewise, the idea of expanding coverage to 36 million, perhaps, more Americans who don't have health care, is important.
The issue here, though, is how to drive the message home, how to drive this achievement home to the American people. And what's happening now in Congress; and the reason you see such concern is, in fact, while the polling numbers have gone down because the debate, the back and forth is really dominate -- is really clouding the real accomplishments. And for the Democrats, they've obviously got to put this bill through so they can get on to jobs, soon. HILL: And it is, Candy Crowley I think, made a great point earlier tonight, that the concern is really for the Democrats, because they have a limited number of time, here. The president still has almost three years to work on things. So, how significant is that when you look at his achievement?
LOUIS: Not just that, he's got a couple years to sell it and he's a better salesman than any one of the members of Congress, so he's -- he'll be fine. They may not be so fine.
HILL: Overall, this effect, is it going to be really damaging for Democrats come in the fall?
PEREZ: I believe so because again the Democratic Party has proved to be very divided on this very, very important issue. The Republicans are united and listing their positions, the Democrats are the ones who are divided and it's going to hurt them.
ZIMMERMAN: If we go into group therapy, which is often our practice when we're under fire, we're going to lose ground. If we get out there and equate why health care helps us economically, why it creates jobs, why, in fact, climate change helps keeps jobs in America...
PEREZ: Cost. That's important.
HILL: Why has it taken to this point to rally your party to do that? Because, clearly there's been a problem for a long time.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think you're right, you're absolutely correct. The party has not stayed focused on a clear and define message. And hopefully when this legislation comes to fruition and it's adopted, they can carry a clear message as to what it is. Part of the problem is, this bill has been changing on a regular basis.
HILL: The problem is it's too long for anybody to know what it really is. And because it is changing on a regular basis...
ZIMMERMAN: It's not even out...
HILL: The other problem is we're out of time.
(LAUGHTER)
But, gentlemen, thank you all very much. I hope nobody gets snowed in this weekend. Miguel Perez, Errol Louis, Robert Zimmerman, thanks again.
Just ahead, President Obama has been taking about announcing this non-binding agreement on climate change, critics already saying not going to change much. Two leading experts weigh in, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: President Obama tonight announcing a deal between the United States, China, and other nations to address climate change. But, he also conceded it will be very hard to reach a legally binding agreement. And there are serious concerns tonight about the effects climate change could have on food and water supplies around the world. In fact, in some parts of the world the problem could lead to bloodshed. Ines Ferre reports on the war over water.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
INES FERRE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Warmer temperatures, rising sea levels, and droughts, all changing factors that could one day impact food and water supply globally. A study by scientists at Stanford and the University of Washington estimates that harvests of rice and corn could drop by 20 percent to 40 percent by the end of this century. It's a problem that crosses the globe, from the southern U.S. to South America to southern Asia.
KIM KNOWLTON, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: Around the world, stable crops like rice, like wheat, like maize that societies rely on are at risk already because of changing climates. And right here in the U.S., vegetable crops and fruits that are economically extremely important like apples, like even dairy cow productions.
FERRE: Kim Knowlton, a public health specialist, believes food insecurity will increase malnutrition and diseases. The U.N. estimates that one billion people are already chronically hungry. As the world population expands toward nine billion, the challenge is even greater. And when it comes to water, the World Health Organization estimates one in eight people don't have enough. Such a risk that some say in the next 100 years, wars will be fought over water not oil.
DAVID ANDELMAN, WORLD POLICY JOURNAL: Human beings need water and they will continue to need water long after we figured out a substitute for oil. Not only that, water is not very well distributed all over the world so that the haves and have nots will clearly be battling in the future just to have access to this vital resources.
FERRE: And water shortages are expected to impact 60 percent of the world in 2025.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And that is already leading to conflicts over water supplies between Syria, Jordan, and Israel and Egypt and Sudan. Some say we need HAVE better management over supply and demand; and also more investments in adopting to a changing climate, for example, developing crops that can withstand higher temperatures -- Erica.
HILL: Ines, even areas in the U.S. have been dealing with, when it comes to sharing water, California and Nevada, Georgia and Florida...
FERRE: Exactly.
HILL: Have a real problem. Ines, thanks.
As we reported earlier in the program, President Obama says a meaningful agreement has been reached to limit global warming. But the question many are asking tonight is how much will this non-binding agreement really change things? I'm joined tonight by two experts on climate change with two very different points of view. Steve Cochran is director of the National Climate Campaign. William Yeatman is an energy policy analyst for the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
Gentlemen, good to have both of you with us. I'll let you both first weigh in, if you will, on what you are taking away from the agreement which was announced tonight. And Steve, I'll start with you.
STEVE COCHRAN, NATIONAL CLIMATE CAMPAIGN: Good first step, important to continue to talk. It brings China to the table. They have to be there. It sets up some pretty impressive steps to help protect rain forests around the world. And most importantly, it doesn't bind the U.S. to do anything other than what we need to do, which is to come home and focus in the Senate and actually get our own house in order so we can move forward.
HILL: And is that enough in terms of getting our own house in order, William, moving forward?
WILLIAM YEATMAN, COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: I'm sorry. Were you speaking to me?
HILL: Yes.
YEATMAN: Oh, I'm sorry. Is it enough to move this bill forward in the Senate? I doubt that. President Obama called this a meaningful and unprecedented agreement, but that's the same sort of diplomatic mumbo jumbo that comes out of these climate con fabs. All they did was agree to continue to meet. There's no -- it's all sizzle and not steak. So, will it give it impetus in the climate bill, the cap-and- trade bill in Senate? I seriously doubt that.
HILL: Is there anything that you would think would give real impetus; that would give a push to make changes here in the U.S. that would be not only passable in Congress but palatable to the American people?
YEATMAN: No, I don't see any -- well, certainly not in the international stage. Remember, what the stake holders are demanding. I mean, we've got developing countries demanding climate reparations, scores of billions of dollars, note that word, "reparation," with the disgusting insinuation that emissions somehow can be equated with slavery and slavery reparations and what not. So, I don't think there's anything palatable on the table for American people and I certainly don't think it's giving any -- a boost to climate legislation in Congress.
HILL: Steve, I'm guessing that you don't share that point of view nor essentially what I'm hearing is that in your view that if Copenhagen was a waste of time, Steve that's not your take. You feel that there really was something that came out of this.
COCHRAN: Well, it's important. You know, as you know really well and some of the stories on just before this make clear how global a problem this is and how essential it is for the world to work together. So, the efforts to try to do that is complicated as they can be, as hard as they can be, are very essential in order for us to be successful.
Now, in terms of the U.S. Senate, the U.S. Senate's going to do what it ought to do, which is to make its judgment based on domestic considerations. They absolutely have to have an eye to the world and how we're effective in the world, but they're going to make their votes they cast on how it's going to affect on folks at home and what it's going to mean in terms of our jobs, in terms of our dependence on foreign oil, cleaner air, cleaner water, those kinds of terms. And so, that's going to be the debate going forward.
The good news, I think, and this really doesn't have that much to do with Copenhagen, is that the Senate is planning on talking about this actually bringing it up and voting on it sometime in the spring and that's when we could have this discussion, have it in a real meaningful way, so we can see if the U.S. really can begin to move forward, here.
HILL: And how important is -- William, I'll throw this to you, when it comes to having that discussion, which ultimately be had, no matter where you stand on the issue, because it needs to be discussed. How important, though, is conveying the fact that these changes don't happen overnight, that there does need to be some patience, perhaps, when it comes to these changes to see whether or not they're actually effective?
YEATMAN: Well, when will that patience run out? Remember, this is...
HILL: But has that even been conveyed at this point? I mean, do you think that people understand that -- I mean, we live in a very immediate society. Do you think people understand that this isn't something that happened really with the signing of a bill? But it's going to take some time. Is that being conveyed properly?
YEATMAN: Conveyed properly, I'm not sure about that. But the facts on the ground are that the nations of the world have been negotiating for two decades on international climate pact. And they're no nearer today than they were two decades ago when they started. The fundamental problem of who is going to pay to cure the climate of its supposed ills is very much present. So, in terms of the American people needing patience, what they see in the ground is interminable delay. So, no.
HILL: No. We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Appreciate your time, tonight. William Yeatman, Steve Cochran. Just because the conference is over, of course, the discussion is not. We'll continue to follow it, thank you, both.
Just ahead at the top of the hour, sitting in for Campbell Brown tonight, Rick Sanchez with us in New York.
Hey, Rick. RICK SANCHEZ, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: This storm is something else, Erica. We're being told as many as 50 million Americans are going to be affected by this. We've got cameras set up to record this thing, just as the first snowfall comes in. And as you know tomorrow it's going to get real heavy.
By the way, Americans are getting raked over the coals and I think it's time we get a little sick and tired of it. I think most people are. Now there's a credit card out there that wants to charge people 80 percent? I mean, what's going on in this country? We're going to be looking at that from a consumer standpoint, look, from an American standpoint. And you know how much I'm involved with social media, right? I mean, love to do this and I use...
HILL: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Do you Twitter or something?
SANCHEZ: I do.
HILL: Stop.
SANCHEZ: You've heard.
HILL: You've got the tweet bug?
SANCHEZ: Rick's list, baby. Hey, but you know what else is going on? And this is really cool and this is something I hadn't actually thought about, because I always think of it in terms of news. There's this phenomenon all over the country, people are reuniting, finding themselves, old girlfriends, aunts, uncles, boyfriends, long lost brothers and sisters on this show. Tonight, coming up, you're going to see three siblings that have never seen each other. They just found themselves on FaceBook and during our hour, they will reunite for the very first time in their lives.
HILL: That is very cool.
SANCHEZ: Not a dry eye in the House, here in this studio. I want you to know when this takes place, just kind of warning you, Erica.
HILL: I'm looking forward to it. I'll be watching and I'll be looking for your tweets on the subject, as well, Rick.
SANCHEZ: So am I.
HILL: Rick, thanks.
SANCHEZ: All right.
HILL: Just ahead, "Heroes," our tribute to the country's servicemen and women. Tonight, you'll meet an army veteran honored for his actions in his very first battle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: And now, "Heroes," our tribute to men and women who service this country every day in the uniform. Tonight, we introduce you to Sergeant First Class Lucas Young. His first combat deployment to Afghanistan proved to be a true challenge for the Army veteran, but it was Sergeant Young's leadership during two major attacks that earned him a Silver Star. Bill Tucker, tonight, with this remarkable story of heroism.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SGT FIRST CLASS LUCAS YOUNG, U.S. ARMY: (INAUDIBLE) part of Bravo Company, Viper Company was in the (INAUDIBLE) valley, we were there basically, our whole task was to fight the enemy, the insurgence in the mountains, keep the fight in the mountains and get them away from the cities and to just try to bring some stability to that area, there.
BILL TUCKER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stability would be hard to come by as Sergeant Lucas Young's platoon came under two major attacks within four weeks.
YOUNG: It was September, Ramadan was happening, So we knew it was -- we were getting shot at frequently.
TUCKER: Young's platoon was ambushed outside of a nearby village, one of his men was immediately shot in the foot.
YOUNG: The whole mission changed to being a Medevac and taking care of that, moving out of there. We were there for probably about -- it was probably about two hour engagement on and off receiving fire and then taking care of our wounded and getting him Medevaced out of there.
TUCKER: A few weeks later, insurgents struck again.
YOUNG: It was basically, what you call a soft knock and search, we're going to go in, we're going to knock on doors. If people are there, we're going to engage the populous, talk to them and just do a random searches of the houses just to make sure, you know, there's no -- nothing there that they're not supposed to have.
TUCKER: As they started their search, the unit made up of Afghan national army and U.S. soldiers came under heavy fire. A mortar landing close to their perimeter, killing one soldier, wounding 10 others.
YOUNG: At that point, you know, we kind of were in a desperate situation then because the numbers, we were low on numbers and taking heavy fire. And of course, the insurgents saw the mortar round hit our position, so they knew we had just been hit and hit pretty good, so that the fire picked up.
TUCKER: The fight lasted eight hours. Sergeant Young called in air support and a Medevac and successfully moved his men back to safety. For his leadership under fire, he was awarded a Silver Star. YOUNG: I appreciate the award and the recognition's good for, you know, myself and my platoon and my company. But again, it wasn't anything that I did by myself, I had a lot of help. And I had some outstanding soldiers there with me.
TUCKER: Bill Tucker, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Sergeant Young says he plans to continue to serve as long as the Army will let him. We wish all the men and women serving this country the very best.
Thanks so much for being with us tonight. I'm Erica Hill. Stay tuned. Up next, in for Campbell Brown, Rick Sanchez. Have a great weekend, we'll see you Monday.
