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CNN Tonight
Health Care Reform Bill; Gitmo Prisoner Transfer
Aired December 22, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUSAN MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, I'm Susan Malveaux the Situation Room up next, "CNN Tonight."
Tonight a major vote on health care now set for 8:00 a.m. Christmas Eve morning. The almost trillion dollar plan legislative pass, but not everyone's happy about it.
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The more the American people learn about the bill, the clearer it is that it has become a historic mistake.
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MALVEAUX: Breaking news tonight. 9-year-old American Sean Goldman could be coming home. Brazil's Supreme Court rules he must be handed over to his father. Is this 5 year custody battle though really over?
Fed up with those excessively loud TV commercials? Take heart, it's not your TV that's possessed. Turns out advertisers are doing it on purpose. And now lawmakers are taking notice, but should this really be an act of Congress?
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone thanks for being with us. We now have both a date and time for the Senate's final voted on health care reform. It is Thursday morning; 8:00 a.m. mark your calendars. Yes, that is Christmas Eve. Now originally, the vote was expected around 7:00 p.m. Christmas Eve night, but a pending ice storm, one of the factors that help move that time up. And President Obama said he wouldn't leave for his Christmas vacation until the Senate's final vote on the bill.
Law makers are expected to pass a ten year, nearly $1 trillion plan. Democrats have of course locked up those magic 60 votes they need to beat back Republican opposition and that has some Senate Democrats taking an early victory lap.
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SEN. TOM HARKIN, (D) IOWA: With apologies to Santa Claus, Christmas is going to be kind of anti climatic this year because we've gotten the best possible gift. Sixty votes, the United States Senate to create a health care system that works for all Americans, not just the healthy and wealthy.
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HILL: With that the (INAUDIBLE) bill nearly been the focus is already shifting to the next battle when it comes to health care. And that is marrying the House and Senate versions into one final piece of legislation. No small feat. Of course, getting to this point hasn't been easy, either. The long hours are definitely starting to show for many Senators. The more taxes issue, maybe the partisan back and forth. Some lawmakers saying they have never seen it this severe. Dana Bash takes a look at just how bad the political tension really is.
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DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The sun was barely peeking through when senators dragged themselves back in for this day's odd hour vote.
SEN. JIM WEBB, (D) VIRGINIA: Good morning. Another day in paradise.
BASH: Sarcasm from a punchy senator, hardly rare during this marathon health care debate colliding with Christmas. Sometimes, you do still see this. A gentlemanly gesture even across party lines. But inside, tensions are flaring.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I don't know what's happening here in this body, but I think it's wrong.
BASH: Nerves are raw.
SEN. TOM COBURN, (R) OKLAHOMA: What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can't make the vote tonight.
SEN. DICK DURBAN, (D) ILLINOIS: I don't think we should be wishing misfortunate on any of our Senate colleagues on either side of the aisle.
BASH: This Senator expressed his frustration with a Christmas poem.
SEN. ROLAND BURRIS, (D) ILLINOIS: So it was the night before Christmas and all through the senate, the Right held up our health care bill no matter what was in it.
BASH: The Democratic leader made this appeal.
SENATOR HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I would hope that everyone would go back to their gentlemanly and ways. I've said to a number of people, Rodney King. Let's just all try to get along.
BASH: Some anger is fueled by fatigue, signs of exhaustion are everywhere.
CLERK: Section 2717 of the Public health care service act -
BASH: From the clerks forced to read a nearly 400 page amendment out loud --
CLERK: I don't know where I am.
BASH: To the Senate majority leader's 1:00 a.m. blunder.
REID: These are some of the AARP, The American Association for the Advancement Colored people, oh; I'm sorry, American Association of Retired People --
BASH: It's no wonder he won't even entertain a question about the next big health care hurdle, compromise with House Democrats.
BASH(on camera): Is the reality that the House is going to get it back to through the Senate - The House is going to have to accept of that much you are doing?
REID: No matter how many ways you ask the question, if you're going to get the same answer. We are focused on passing this bill in the senate.
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BASH: Despite all the tension and exhaustion, Republicans won't allow that final health care vote until the morning before Christmas. It's not that they think they can stop Democrats from passing health care reform, they just believe delaying it is good political strategy for next year, an election year, Erica.
HILL: Dana thanks, the House meantime is losing one Democrat, although not exactly losing a critical vote. Alabama Congressman Parker Griffith crossing the aisle to become a Republican. The doctor turned lawmaker blasted the Democratic health care reform plan, saying it was the prime reason for the move. His affection doesn't really come though as a surprise. Congressman Griffith has one of the most conservative records among Democrats. He voted against the stimulus bill. As well as many others. And even with the - he has moved to the Right, Democrats do still hold a sizable lead in the House. The majority is expected to shrink a bit further though when four others party senators resign in January.
Meantime, there's been so much talk about the pork in the senate's health care reform bill, but it's not just health care that has special interest working overtime. Turns out, 2009 has actually been a pretty big year for lobbyist. Thanks for the push for reforms on Wall Street and actually on climate changes as well. Lisa Sylvester has more.
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LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The recession, what recession? Certainly not for the lobbyists on Capitol Hill. The lawyers and representatives of special interest groups are having a banner year according to the non partisan center for responsive politics.
DAVID LEVINTHAL, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: Despite the recession, despite all the economic turmoil, lobbyists and the clients of lobbyists are on pace to spend a record amount of money in 2009, breaking even the high water mark set in 2008. It's probably going to be over $3.3 billion, with a b. That was the number set last year
SYLVESTER: Driving the lobbying boom it is the massive health care bill being debated in Congress. Levinthal says and only the first nine months of this year, Pharma the lobbying arm for the pharmaceutical industry has spent $20 million on lobbying.
Individual drug companies added even more. Pfizer more than $16 million. Eli Lilly topping $9 million. GlaxoSmithKline a little over $6 million and Johnson and Johnson more than $4 million. Spending to get their message across seems to have worked for the pharmaceutical industry, which recently managed to defeat a Congressional amendment that would have allowed the re-importation of less expensive prescription drugs from countries like Canada.
Pharma argued there was no way to guarantee the safety of those drugs. But health care is only one of the major issues that Congress has taken up. The stimulus bill proposed new financial regulations and energy reform have also brought out the lobbyists. The gas and oil industry has spent more $120 million in the first nine months of this year.
MARIANNE LAVELLE, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: History is really making its voice heard. We've looked at the lobbying on - there are about 2,800 lobbyists working on climate change on the Hill.
SYLVESTER: The group with the deepest pockets remains though the U.S. Chamber Of Commerce which so far this year has spent more than $65 million on lobbying three times more than anyone else.
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SYLVESTER (on camera): On the health care bill, it's not just drug companies and insurance companies who you might expect that have hired the big lobbying guns. But groups like the American Beverage Association are jumping in. The organization is actively lobbying to try to keep a soda tax out of the final legislation. Erica.
HILL: Everybody getting in on this one. Of course, we should point out that this passage of the Senate bill is far from the end of the lobbying here. In fact, it might increase a bit.
SYLVESTER: Yes, you know, if they have, if they're able to get it passed in the senate, then you have to marry the bill that came out of the House and that's when the real fight begins because then you've got the lobbyists who are going to be lining up trying to make sure their provisions are kept in and the things they don't want kept out, Erica.
HILL: And that is going to be an expensive process - for those - for the lobbyist. Lisa thanks.
The FBI investigating the alleged theft of tens of millions of dollars from Citibank by computer hackers. According to Wall Street Journal, it said the attackers were actually through a Russian cyber gang. But here's the thing, Citigroup has strenuously denied those allegations saying there was quote, "no breach of the system. No customer law suits. No bank losses." Cyber crime is a critical issue for businesses and for government agencies. President Obama today is announcing the appointment of Howard Schmidt a former Microsoft and EBay executive, as the government's cyber security czar.
Well putting politics aside, how about some helpful news on the economy. Sales of existing homes surged nearly 7.5 percent in November. Tripled analyst expectations. The two factors behind the boost, according to economist that $8,000 tax credit for first time home buyers. It was suppose to expire last month. And also, record low interest rates. The average 30-year fixed rate loan now 4.88 percent a year ago.
Coming up, a fight over moving prisoners from Gitmo to the U.S. some locals believe that terror suspects could bring real economic security. Not everyone though wants the new neighbors.
And the violent drug war in Mexico intensifies. Spilling over the border, so just how dangerous is the situation.
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HILL: It's been dubbed Gitmo North and that's alone raises plenty of questions. Hundreds of people turning out today to make their voices heard on plans to house one hundred terror detainees in an under used state prison in Thompson, Illinois. And this was the first of several public hearings on the controversy Cheryl Jackson has the story.
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CHERYL JACKSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Several hundred people showed up to persuade the commissioners to vote their way. Some saying the Gitmo prisoners have no right in Illinois, and others saying this is an opportunity this community has long needed.
We have elected officials -
JACKSON (voice over): All this is about this place, Thompson prison. The state of the art facility is top of the line. But nearly empty, providing no income to the people who live here. The federal government wants to buy it and funnel an estimated billion dollars into the sleepy, struggling community over the next four years. They also plan to create 2 or 3,000 jobs. Who could have a problem with that? Well, Joy Erington does.
JOY ERINGTON, AMERICAN CITIZEN: I'm against it because I don't believe the terrorist should be on any U.S. soil let alone Illinois property.
JACKSON: About 100 detainees at Thompson will be transferred from Guantanamo Bay. Some believe those transfers come to Illinois with too high a price tag. ERINGTON: They brought down the world trade towers. You are inviting nuclear warfare. They won't stop at nothing.
JACKSON: The Obama administration has promised to put a second security fence around the already supermax facility. They guarantee all health care needed at Thompson prison will happen on the property. No detainees at local hospitals, but the measures don't seem to be good enough.
ERINGTON: My concern is not the prisoners getting out. It's -- you're making us a target for foreigners to attack on American soil.
JACKSON: Others say a prisoner is a prisoner. The issue is the economy.
BRAD LONG, PRESIDENT OF THE NORTH WESTERN ILLINOIS BUILDING CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL: (INAUDIBLE) Losing their insurance, losing their houses - you know, just trying to put food on the table.
JACKSON: Brad Long is the President of the North Western Illinois Building and Construction Trades Council. He says unemployment in the construction business is higher than 30 percent in this area. The community is also in debt. That's because they built a new water treatment plant when the prison was constructed.
LONG: We've got a state-of-the-art facility you know that is not being utilized.
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JACKSON (on camera): It's important to point out the government can override the governor's decision. But the governor's decision can also be challenged by technicality in the law, Erica.
HILL: Cheryl thanks.
We are hearing firsthand tonight from the man whose controversial new mandate would mean a court marshal for anyone who becomes pregnant or who gets another service member pregnant. More than 20,000 U.S. soldiers are now serving in Northern Iraq under the General Anthony. You can call and they would be the ones directly affected by this new rule. It is a mandate drawing fire at home. The general responded today.
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MAJOR GENERAL ANTHONY CUCOLO III, U.S. ARMY: In this 22,000- soldier task force, I need every soldier I've got. Especially since during this tour we're facing a drawdown of forces. Anyone who leaves the fight earlier than expected in this 12 month deployment creates a burden on their teammates and anyone who leaves this fight early because they made a personal choice that changed their medical status or contributed to making someone no longer deployable is not keeping with the key elements of the warrior's ethos -- I will always keep the mission first, the mission before ourselves.
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HILL: The rule does make an exception for sexual assault. It also applies, by the way, to many civilians serving under the general, who said he will be the only person to decide who is punished over pregnancy.
It appears to have taken, basically no time, for Mexico's drug cartel to take revenge for the death of a major drug lord. We reported on this to you when it happens or Arturo Eltran Lave dying in a shootout last week with the Mexican navy. Well since then, suspected cartel gunman have gone and killed the family of a Mexican marine who was also killed in that shootout. And at the same time, as Casey Wian reports, pictures have now surfaced. Showing Mexican authorities apparently desecrating the body of a dead drug lord. And I want to warn you, this story contains graphic images you may find disturbing.
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CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When the Mexican navy killed Arturo Eltran Lave, the notorious boss of bosses of one of Mexico's most violent drug cartels in a shootout last week, the U.S. State Department said the operation quote - "Demonstrates Mexico's determination and increasing capacity to debilitate the drug cartels that threaten the safety and well being of its citizens."
Perhaps a marine who was killed in the shootout at Beltron Laves' condominium was mourned Monday as a national hero and praised by President Felipe Calderon. Hours after attending the marine's funeral, his mother, sister and aunt were gunned down by unknown killers. Government officials got the message.
FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT: We will not be intimidated by criminals without scrutiny like those who committed this barbarian. Those who act like this deserve a unanimous repudiation of society and they must pay for their crimes.
WIAN: Killing female family members is unusual even for Mexico's violent drug cartels. More typical behavior results in gruesome scenes like this, where the body of a victim is desecrated as a warning to rivals. Expect these photos of Beltron Laves body published in a Mexican newspaper, El Universale, were obviously staged. Apparently in the presence of local authorities. His body is scene covered in blood-stained money. Another photo shows religious jewelry placed on his stomach.
GEORGE GRAYSON, AUTH. "MEXICO: NARCO VIOLENCE AND A FAILED STATE": The cartels are able to kill just about anyone they really target. It's just that usually, family members are not in the bull's eye. But I think the killing of Arturo and the mutilation of his body sparked this revenge.
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WIAN (on camera): Mexican federal officials criticized the photos and say they are investigating the circumstances that lead to them being taken and released to the media. So far, more than 15,000 Mexicans have been killed since President Calderon deployed federal troops to fight cartels three years ago. The events of the past week are expected to lead to even more violence as traffickers' battle over control of Arturo Beltron Laves Empire, Erica.
HILL: Casey there's also talk about just how involved the U.S. has been in this fight. I believe its $1.3 billion has been pledged to the fight. Although really, in the grand seem scheme of things, if we are talking about a $20 billion smuggling operation, it could seem as a drop in the bucket. So where is that money and where is the U.S. help going in this fight?
WIAN: Well it's interesting that you ask that because five helicopters manufactured in the U.S. and part of that money that the U.S. has committed to Mexico arrived in Mexico last week to help fight that drug war and U.S. and Mexican authorities say they are cooperating more on the war than ever before. In fact, the tip from U.S. intelligence is what allowed the Mexican Navy to find out where Arturo Beltron Laves was hiding last week, Erica.
HILL: Casey Wian for us. Casey thanks.
Still ahead tonight, more on our breaking news we told you about at the top of the hour. A dramatic ruling tonight in an American father's struggle to win custody back of his 9-year-old son. Will he finally bringing little Sean back home to the U.S. from Brazil?
Plus, outrage over the death of a pregnant woman after two emergency medical technicians. Allegedly told bystanders to call 911 and then walked away.
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HILL: I want to keep you updated on what is happening in the skies this week. Many of you travelling, Chad Myers joining us now from the CNN weather center with the latest. Hi Chad.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: In the sky right now, people are still trying to catch up from this weekend. Look at this like ants on candy. Looks like a mars bar. 5,100 planes still in the sky right now. People are still trying to get where they wanted to be a couple f days ago.
Very windy across the southwestern part of the United States today between Tucson and Phoenix had a dust storm, a deadly dust storm. In fact, I don't know if you saw these pictures or not. You can go onto cnn.com to see them as well. That's not dust. That's in fact what's left of a tractor trailer that plowed into some other cars. And other cars plowing into it, 22 vehicles altogether. And there were fatalities, between three and four fatalities still being confirmed at this point in time. Three confirmed still another one there. Five were escorted and transported with life flight to the hospitals. But just ugly, ugly scene there. Can't even tell what that vehicle looked like before it started to crash there.
Hey here's what's going for you for the rest of the weekend, this is going to be a problem as well, I believe. This is all snow. Minneapolis, here's Omaha, here's Lincoln, North Plat Scotts plot. Here is the snow event. It's not as big as the one that moved through the east coast. Maybe 30 percent of that storm. 20 or 30 percent of the snowfall will come down in this storm and only about 5 percent of the people compared to the last storm will be affected because they don't have the population density. But pets, animals, all those things are going to be affected by this. Wind chill factors behind this system, 30 to 50 below zero. This is a real time, real winter- type storm. The low moves up through the plains, it drags down the cold air. Very heavy snow through I-70, 80, 96, 94. We'll see ice and snow where South of there, we'll see scattered showers and even the potential - the potential for some wintertime tornadoes right through parts of Archo Texas and the Mississippi and Alabama, Erica.
HILL: Wintertime tornadoes. I've never heard of that before but I'm not a meteorologist.
MYERS: You know what though, this year is an El Nino year, and it's very possible that we could have a record number or near record number of tornadoes in the December, January, February this year because of where the storm is going to be, where the jet stream is going to be. So hey if you haven't bought all your Christmas presents yet, I know a weather radio, about $30 or $40 bucks, might save a life.
HILL: Always a great gift, Chad, thanks, that's a good point there too.
MYERS: Chia pet as well but no weather a radio always make a good gift.
HILL: I'm not buying one until they make a Chad Myers Chia pet. Thanks Chad.
MYERS: Sure.
HILL: Turning now to a very serious story with allegations that are frankly almost unbelievable. Two New York emergency medical technicians accused of refusing to help a dying pregnant woman because they were on break. The city is now investigating. The 25-year-old mother to be died at the hospital shortly after collapsing at a Brooklyn (INAUDIBLE) where she worked.
Now doctors say her unborn child was simply too premature to survive. So they both died. Witnesses say they were off duty and told employees to call 911 but then left when they were asked to help the woman. The city has suspended the two without pay during the investigation. The union representing the EMT's says they work as medical dispatchers and do not deal with patients in the field. There is no word on what caused the woman to collapse.
Also tonight, more bloodshed involving law enforcement officers in Washington State. A gunman there open fire on two Sheriffs Deputies during a domestic dispute. And this time, the officers were shot and wounded while responding to a fight between two brothers. The officers returned fire and killed the gunmen. The fleet of shooting just comes of course just weeks after four officers were killed by a fugitive in a coffee shop near Seattle. One month earlier, a Seattle cop was killed as he sat in his patrol car on Halloween night.
Still to come, breaking new, Brazil's high court rules on an international custody battle. We have been following very closely for you here on CNN. We'll have more on the decision and what it could mean for similar cases of other kids.
And if you ever wonder why those TV commercials are so loud, well, how about a push to turn the volume down. Sound like a good idea? We'll have more.
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HILL: There is breaking news tonight, a decision in an international custody battle that has received an enormous amount of attention. We've been following it very closely for you here on CNN. Brazil's Supreme Court ruling today 9-year-old Sean Goldman must be returned to his American father, David Goldman, who has been fighting a five-year legal battle with the boy's Brazilian family and the boy's stepfather to bring his young son home. Is this long legal battle though really over? Ines Ferre joins us with the latest and we know he's basically had this hopeful moment before and the battle was far from over.
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And family is saying also right now, they're really cautious about this decision. Supreme Court justice in Brazil ruling in favor of David Goldman. The judge lifted a stay put forth by another justice last week. Prior to that, a court ruled that Sean Goldman had to be handed over to his biological father. This is obviously good news for Goldman but his lawyer wants to know the details of the handover. The lawyer for the Brazilian family is also reading over the decisions. They said they would take further legal action if necessary. The maternal grandmother sent a letter to the Brazilian president today saying the boy should stay in Brazil. The paternal grandparents in New Jersey told CNN they are guardedly optimistic, they are hopeful, but will not believe it until they see it, until the wheels of the plane are up. This case has received enormous public attention. The secretary of state Hillary Clinton getting involved, Congressman Chris Smith from New Jersey and even Senator Lautenberg who put a hold on consideration of a trade agreement renewals that expires at the end of this month Erica. So, there's been a lot of the pressure on Brazil.
HILL: A lot of pressure indeed and even some pressure coming from the Brazilian government. Ines, thanks. I know you're going to continue to follow this and learn more about it. We want to get more of a legal perspective at this point. So joining us now with more on the decision is CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom.
And Lisa, I know you've been following this closely as well. From what you've heard so far tonight, does it sound like Sean Goldman could in fact finally be going home to New Jersey?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He could be, but it all depends on what the next legal move is of the Brazilian family because this is the issuance of an order listing a stay by one justice of the Supreme Court in Brazil. Although it is the chief justice, it is not the entire court, so their next legal move, if they want to take it, would be to appeal to the entire Brazilian Supreme Court and if that appeal is granted and the entire court takes up the matter, they could delay it, reach a decision and there could be more legal wrangling, so the ball is in their court to see if they will appeal it further.
HILL: So there is that chance to make an appeal as you said to the entire Brazilian Supreme Court. After that, is that the last step? I mean, how much longer does this appeal process go on?
BLOOM: That would be the last step because that is the highest court in Brazil unless they kick it back down to further courts with other proceedings to follow. That's done here and that could happen in Brazil as well.
HILL: What about, and I know this is a different legal system from the U.S., but when we look at all the delays that have been because there have been rulings in favor of David Goldman, from a legal perspective, was what does that tell you?
BLOOM: Well it tells me that the system moves very slowly in Brazil but this is a case that's been hard fought for a number of years. For the first couple of years, the mother had this little boy in Brazil and so this was a custody battle between two parents. After the mother died, this was a battle between a biological parent and stepparent, but they argued at that point, that David Goldman had not had a lot of contact with his son, that his son had gotten used to Brazil, that he was living with a loving family in Brazil and that it would be disruptive for him to leave Brazil. That was an argument that I guess had some traction with the courts because it lead to a lot of protracted proceedings.
HILL: And the attorney for the family actually, I had him on the air last night. One of the things he said to me, when this was really a battle between two parents over international custody. He made the point that he didn't really feel that David Goldman had made as much of an effort to visit while the mother was still alive and that he had done that on the advice of an attorney. Is that a wise move when you're dealing with an international custody battle to sort of stay away in the hopes that it actually helps your case and how does that help your case?
BLOOM: No, I can't see how that would help anyone's case. Any parent in a custody battle should maintain contact with the child, visit with the child, get every opportunity to maintain contact with the child because it is an effective argument to say to the court, look, this is a parent that the child barely knows. It's disruptive for a young child to be uprooted, to go to another country and be with another parent that the child hasn't had a lot of contact with. If indeed that's what happened, it's hard to understand what that legal strategy was by David Goldman.
HILL: I should point out that both David Goldman and Representative Chris Smith of New Jersey, I spoke with both of them as well last night, they have both expressed there is definitely a bond between David and Sean Goldman and that he is ready to go home so that of course is their side to it. When it comes to the influence, Ines touched on this, there has been so much talk and play from different levels of government on both the Brazilian and U.S. side. How much influence do you think that has had on the outcome here?
BLOOM: It's not supposed to have any effect on the outcome. Shouldn't have any influence on U.S. courts, but judges are human beings. They read the newspapers. They're not supposed to be ruled by that. This has really become an international crisis. This has been in papers around the world, not just the U.S. and Brazil. If you Google this, you will find international coverage all over the world. It has become an embarrassment to the Brazilian government when a child is being held by family members and being kept away from his only biological parent, I think most people feel that is an unfair situation and it had to be remedied. So I think the judges wanted to put an end to it. That's why the chief justice stepped in. This was supposed to be continued until February, but the chief justice took this extraordinary action today of stepping in and saying I want to end this thing.
HILL: One last quick question because there's been a lot of talk about the hey convention and where and how this comes into play. Should that have made more of an impact?
BLOOM: It should and one of the reasons for this five-year delay is that some challenged the convention and said it shouldn't be part of their international treaties. The convention does apply in Brazil as it does in the United States. It says a custody order has to be respected by other countries. So here David Goldman was all along under the hey convention entitled to custody of his son.
HILL: All right. We'll continue to follow as we get more updates. Lisa, thanks.
BLOOM: Thank you.
HILL: Just ahead, we'll take a little commercial break and I want you to listen very closely during that break. After that, we'll talk about those commercials that you've been watching. Think about the volume as you watch and as you listen. Is it a lot louder than the broadcast right now? If so, you definitely want to hear this next story.
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HILL: So you're watching your favorite show, "CNN TONIGHT," a super loud commercial comes on, screaming at you in the break to buy something, an obvious attempt to grab your attention. For many people, it is more like an annoyance. You might head straight for the mute button. Louise Schiavone now telling us about one California Congresswoman who has had it, on the mission to eliminate the nuisance of those overbearingly loud TV ads.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don't deny it. Advertisements louder than the program in which they appear, TV commercials like these get on your nerves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time you try to watch a show, you have these really loud commercials.
SCHIAVONE: You might have thought there ought to be a law. Actually, there might be one soon. Approved in the house and awaiting action in the senate, legislation mandating that TV commercials are no louder than the programs in which they appear.
MARK HUGHES, MEDIA ANALYST: This is kind of a dumb bill, but I love it.
SCHIAVONE: Media analyst Mark Hughes says it's obviously not a world class political issue, but for irritated Americans, it rings a bell.
HUGHES: It's important I don't wake the kids while they're sleeping or tick off my wife when she says to turn it down and then it's high volume.
SCHIAVONE: It's a back handed compliment the bill's author will take it.
REP. ANNA ESHOO (D), CALIFORNIA: I've never said this is going to solve the huge challenges that face us. I had no idea that people across the country would relate to it and be drawn to the legislation and I mean, I've gotten more mail, e-mails, telephone calls, saying at a girl, do it. It might even save my marriage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The show goes off, commercials go on, it's blasted up.
SCHIAVONE: Political strategist John Ashford says it's a neat little issue when the big challenges aren't that tidy.
JOHN ASHFORD, HAWTHORN GROUP: When Congress can't solve big problems like Iraq and Afghanistan and ten percent unemployment and how to implement this health care bill they're trying to pass, they turn to small problems like blasting television commercials.
SCHIAVONE: The bill gives one year to advertisers and production houses to adopt industry technology that modulates and sets sound levels and apply it to television commercials.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Sources at the FCC say that for the most part, issues associated with the internet have been topic a over there, but if Congress sends them a bill, they'll implement it.
HILL: Louise, is there any proof this loud advertising actually works? SCHIAVONE: Well, ask yourself what you do when television goes to commercial. Do you say, can you turn that up a little bit I'm going into the kitchen to get a cup of coffee or something? The consensus is that when ads blast on to a TV program, the first impulse is to turn off the rest of the ad or even switch the channel or even possibly turn off the TV. What's interesting is that the people who are captive to these loud ads, the people who can't rush to the television or the remote and switch the settings, are the elderly, who in many cases, wear hearing aides and children, whose hearing is very sensitive and also my dog.
HILL: Well, we don't want this to affect your dog, that and people like me who need to replace the batteries in their remote and haven't gotten around to it. They're stuck with them too. Louise, thanks. Good luck with your dog.
Still ahead, the final Senate health care vote will happen Christmas Eve morning, but now, a Democrat in the house is abandoning his party, joining the Republicans. What is the impact for the battle over health care with this latest move? We'll tackle that and oh so much more. Our political panel coming up next.
RICH BEAGLE: I'm Rich Beagle currently deployed to Afghanistan. I want to say hello to my wife, son, daughter, back home in St. Petersburg, Florida.
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HILL: Plenty of talk about health care, the big vote now scheduled for 8:00 a.m. Christmas Eve. Believe it or not as much attention as this is getting, it is not the only political story we have on tap tonight. Joined now by our panel of CNN contributors, Ed Rollins, former white house political director under Ronald Reagan, Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist and Miguel Perez, syndicated columnist and professor at Lehman College. I know it's hard to believe that there is more than just the is that the vote, but it's true. But we will start with the Senate vote. 8:00 a.m. Christmas Eve. Miguel, you first. There had been the push for 7:00, but the ice storm may have helped out. Are you expecting any surprises from that is this?
MIGUEL PEREZ, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: No I think it's finally, it's going to go through the Senate. If anything goes wrong, they have Santa Claus to blame in the future.
HILL: Don't blame Santa. Poor guy can't catch a break.
PEREZ: The problem with this Senate bill, we shouldn't put all our eggs in this basket. It still has to be reconciled with the house version. It is very, very different. There are all kinds of problems. We may not have a bill at all.
HILL: And that is the big sticking point is marrying these two bills and there is so much about them that is different and potential for a sticking point here. Robert, I'll let you start on this tonight. What do you see is the biggest sticking points when it comes to marrying this legislation?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well the members I speak to in the house and Senators I've spoken to in the past several days all come back with a same analysis and they've been consistent in what they've been telling me in that they believe the controversy over the abortion language is ultimately going to be reconciled. For instance you've got the pro choice groups and the anti-abortion rights groups feuding. There seems to be a consensus among pro-choice legislators with anti-abortion legislators. The real controversy I think comes down to how to pay for this bill. The issue of the Senate proposal, which means the tax, the Cadillac plans, the high-end plans, which antagonize the labor unions and the house version which attacks the top earners. There will be a compromise, there will be a settlement, there will be a bill by the state of the union speech.
HILL: A bill by the state of the union speech. Ed, what do you think?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's a challenge. Obviously, they have the votes. One less Democrat today. We picked up our first seat of the 2010.
HILL: Little early Christmas gift for you.
ROLLINS: We'll take every one we can get. I think first of all, your question about Santa Claus, Santa Claus is Harry Reid.
HILL: I think Santa Claus is nonpartisan. I don't think he sits on either side of the aisle.
ROLLINS: Right now, Harry Reid has all the gifts. The difference is that it's not one guy behind the scenes. It's a more public; even though the speaker and he will still have a big portion, there will be other players. I think the public option still in the house; I think that's a big, and big -- that could be a deal breaker. Abortion issue they mail be able to resolve.
PEREZ: One more issue I think is crucial in there and that is immigration. There's a big difference between the two bills and the Senate people, the people in the Senate do not want to allow illegal immigrants to even pay for their own health care. Which is absurd because it's counterproductive. What we're doing is sending them to the emergency rooms where all taxpayers are going to have to pay for the bills so it doesn't make -- it's cutting our nose to spite our face.
HILL: Everybody is going to be worried about how all these things abortion, immigration, thousand pay for things, that public option. How they affect those main constituencies which they have to worry about in 2010 which include Latinos, which include women, labor unions. That's going to be a big consideration. Let's move on to the point you brought up. Democrats losing one member of the House from Alabama, Representative Parker Griffith saying he's going to become a Republican. Frankly, you're happy to have him. It wasn't a real surprise. You've had him for a while.
ROLLINS: He voted properly. We welcome -- we're a big tent party. We welcome any Democrat that wants to come across.
ZIMMERMAN: You didn't have him where it counted and when it came to voting for the leadership. He stood up with his Democratic colleagues and elected Nancy Pelosi as speaker. It will be fun watching Democrats run ads with him next to Nancy Pelosi when he runs as a Republican.
HILL: In August he said I will never vote for her again.
ROLLINS: You have a lot of seats that play. I would not waste a lot of money in Alabama --
ZIMMERMAN: I think you're totally correct.
PEREZ: What is amazing here, you're going to have a Republican running with Democratic money that was donated to him.
HILL: Some of that came from actually Speaker Pelosi, I believe $4,000.
PEREZ: It's opportunistic. I mean, this guy obviously realized that he had a better shot of being elected as a Republican.
HILL: It was a close race for him last time around. It's going to be a close race as well. So, yes --
ZIMMERMAN: He was elected with $1.2 million of Democratic fund- raising money to fight the Republican attacks and despite the philosophical statements of why he's doing this, May West, sex symbol of the '20s put it best when a woman approached and said, goodness, what gorgeous diamonds you have and Miss West said goodness had noting to do with it. Philosophy has nothing to do with it.
HILL: Isn't that the root of all politics? I want to move on to another. There are a few things to get to. Rudy Giuliani also, today, there had been speculation about, oh, what may be next for him, apparently he is too busy to jump back into politics.
ROLLINS: There was a poll last week where he could beat Gillibrand in a poll by ten points. Rudy has never wanted to be a senator. He wanted to be governor. He knows he can't beat Cuomo in a governor's race. I think he still dreams of being president some day but it's difficult to be president when you're running around making speeches or running security forums. This may be the end of Rudy Giuliani.
HILL: Really, the definitive end?
PEREZ: He's enjoying making too much money.
ZIMMERMAN: Also he's dealing with the reality he's not electable in New York State. I know what the polls say today about how well he's doing but he always starts out ahead in the polls. If there's one person who can mobilize Democrats and energize the Democratic base to come out to vote, it's Rudy Giuliani. He didn't run because he couldn't win. HILL: That's not something he probably wants to hear. Let's look at the economy. This comes back to health care. There's talk about how is this health care reform going to be paid for? CNN Opinion Research poll out today, eight out of ten Americans see the economy in poor shape but say it's getting better. Here's what really stood out to me. 57% said economic recovery should be a higher priority for the administration than the deficit. So what I am hearing from that, when I read it is, it's better to spend money to work on the recovery than worry about paying down debt or adding to the deficit, Ed. I mean -- have we learned nothing?
ROLLINS: We learn the nothing. Lessons learned over and over again. When you've been around as long as I have you see it repeat itself. The bottom line is people need jobs. I think to a certain extent the Democrats and the Republicans have to talk about jobs. I think people are tired of the health care debate. They may want it, may not want it. At the end of the day they want the people, white house, Congress to get focused on their jobs. Deficit is a serious problem for the next generation. Not going to be a political issue in this election coming up. Jobs are going to be something. If you're not basically moving the job game forward --
PEREZ: People are worried about the deficit and more worried about the deficit than last year but not enough. In the not comparison to how much they're worried about jobs. Jobs is the first priority.
HILL: They also believe interestingly, six out of ten say that financial institutions have too much influence over the administration. That's going to come up in the 2010 elections. How do you address that?
ZIMMERMAN: That issue is going to resonate. You can add to the equation the same groups that are saying financial institutions have too much influence are saying the insurance lobbies have too much influence, they're making the claim that pharmaceutical --
HILL: Isn't it going to be tough to counteract for seats that are up to grab?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely and that's a challenge. Democrats have got to craft a message and stay on a message. The Republicans have been very good about staying on one message and sticking with it in the health care debate. Democrats got in the air and trashed this bill and talked about why they're supporting it. There has to be a very decisive message that talks about how health care, how climate change, all come back to making the economy better and creating new jobs. If we can't focus on that we're going to suffer setbacks in 2010.
HILL: Robert Zimmerman, Ed Rollins, Miguel Perez, always good to have you all here. Thanks.
Still ahead, what is the price of fame? Well, balloon boy's parents finding out it could be jail time and a hefty fine. Yes, the Heenes are back. Stay tuned. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Ali Velshi at the top of the hour in tonight for Campbell Brown. Hey Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Erica you look like you guys are having a good time over there. At the top of the hour a CNN exclusive, the most intense war games you have ever seen. In our series "The War before the War," see how far the military goes to train our troops for war and meet the people who pose as terrorists for a good cause.
Also the blockbuster film "Avatar" is it also pushing an anti-war message? I'm going to talk to one of the stars of the film.
Plus, more on a story we brought you last night. Why was an army general threatening to punish troops that get pregnant or get another soldier pregnant? All that at the top of the hour Erica.
HILL: You are a busy man my friend. We'll be watching. Thanks.
Balloon boy's parents heading to court tomorrow where they face possible jail time and a growing fine. The aspiring reality TV stars, of course, staged a hoax that captivated the country for a day then had a lot of people upset. The Heenes said their 6-year-old son was stuck in a runaway balloon you see there. The parents pleaded guilty and now local officials in Colorado want them to cover the cost of the rescue attempts. So far that amounts to $43,000. The judge will decide tomorrow if they have to pay and whether they have to serve jail time.
And finally, tonight, a Boston mom says her teenage son will not stop playing video games. I know. It may not sound that surprising, but what she did when she needed help just may. She woke up at 2:30 in the morning, find her 14-year-old son still playing Grand Theft Auto. This is hours after she told him go to bed. What does she do? She calls 911. The police said the call was unusual but managed to convince the son to turn off the game and go to sleep. Could also just pull the plug, take the video game out of the house. Just a thought.
Thanks so much for being with us tonight.
I'm Erica Hill. Join us tomorrow night right here, 7:00 p.m. eastern.
Up next, Ali Velshi sitting in for Campbell Brown.
