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CNN Tonight

Investigations Into Intelligence Failures; U.S. Aid to Yemeni Forces Become Public; Government Launches Controversy Removing Wild Mustangs From Natural Habitat

Aired December 30, 2009 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: red flags that should never have been missed, intel on the airline bombing suspect in government hands but not acted on.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To have this critical information to share, it could have been compiled and a forward, clearer picture of the suspect would have emerged.

ROBERTS: Who dropped the ball and, more importantly, could it happen again?

And tracking Al Qaeda, the hunt is on. Are we still one step behind the terrorists?

Also, the wild mustangs, a symbol of the American west and a national treasure, no longer free to roam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What government organization rounds of wildlife to protect them? They are doing fine.

ROBERTS: Should the wild mustangs stay wild?

Good evening and thanks so much for being with us tonight.

Serious finger-pointing this evening about how the government mishandled the failed Northwest Airline terrorist attack. The Homeland Security Secretary says after the attack was thwarted, the systems worked to alert other aircraft and keep the traveling public safe.

Not so fast says the union that represents American Airline pilots. It charges the government left most airborne flight in the dark about the terror threat. The fear of course is that there could have been other plots underway at the time. Al Qaeda is known for launching simultaneous attacks. 9/11 being the most infamous example.

Our Jeanne Meserve looks into the communication breakdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A man with a bomb tries to take down an airplane. Passengers and crew jump into action. Are all aircraft in the skies warned? No. And some pilots are furious. MARK KARN, COALITION OF AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Outrage -- the pilot force is out raged they didn't receive this information.

MESERVE: The only pilots notified were those on flights inbound from Europe.

JANET NAPOLITANO, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Within literally an hour to 90 minutes, all 128 flights in the air had been notified to take special measures in light of what had occurred.

MESERVE: And 128 were notified, but at the time the Northwest flight landed, there were 3,500 flights in the air over the U.S., and the number grew through the afternoon.

The TSA said in a statement it made a strategic risk-based decision to notify only some pilots based on intelligence information. But the pilots say remember history. 9/11 and other Al Qaeda plots involved multiple attacks, and the TSA had no way of knowing if that pattern was being repeated and the say pilots should have been informed.

KARN: It's important all our airborne crews receive the information to modify their security procedures to restrict movement in the cabin and monitor access to the cockpit door. But that was not done in this case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: There is a concrete example of why such notification can be important. On September 11th, passengers on flight 93 were able to thwart the hijackers and take the plane down in a field because they had learned in the air about the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. John, back to you.

ROBERTS: Jeanne, any response from the government as to why there weren't broader alerts?

MESERVE: As I mentioned in the piece, they said it was a risk- based decision. I should also say at the very they weren't sure what they had on their hands. The early reports were this was a guy with a fire cracker. But the pilots are saying, when you knew, you should have told us.

ROBERTS: Jeanne Meserve, thanks.

New images tonight of the failed Christmas terror attacks. You are looking at a new picture of Seat 19A from Northwest flight 253. It was right here that Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab tried to blow up the plane and all of its passengers. He appeared to pick the seat very deliberately. He was situated above the plane's fuel tanks.

Congress tonight demanding answers about how the government handled the failed terror attack. The administration tried to connect the dots today for some Congressional aides.

Ed Henry is in Honolulu with the president. And Ed, what was revealed in the meetings?

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, it's interesting. They were behind closed doors to give you an idea of the sensitive nature of all this classified information. The Obama administration trying to fill in congressional staff, but I have spoken to officials who feel there are a lot of an unanswered questions.

They say they feel the office of director of national intelligence tried to sort of explain what went wrong. Still there is a lot of missing pieces. For example, it's still unclear who could have been done differently by the government, but what needs to be done by the government moving forward to prevent another attack in the future.

That's why tomorrow is the deadline for the president's national security team where he gave them a deadline for the preliminary findings for what he called systemic and human failures that led to this attempted terror attack.

We are going to watch that very closely tomorrow to see if there are clues to see if are changes the president may push for.

Meantime, I sat down with this state's senior Senator Daniel Inouye who became one of many top Democrats today firing back at former Vice President Dick Cheney who today alleged that President Obama has been too slow and weak in his response so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DANIEL INOUYE, (D) HAWAII: I hate to say this but I think the former vice president lost all of his credibility the way he has been conducting himself. I would expect a person who had the potential of leading the country to be a bit more responsible.

I thought the president was doing it in the proper fashion. Well, he could have spoken up five minutes after he got the news, but that would have been irresponsible, not knowing what the facts were. Why should you instill fear when something is not justified? So I think he did the right thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Senator Inouye, who is the chairman of the appropriations committee also indicated the U.S. is trying to battle Al Qaeda especially in Yemen right now. He would not get into detail, but he did say the U.S. is aware of the extremist activity in Yemen and in his words "will act accordingly," John.

ROBERTS: And the vice president came out very critical of the president today, saying he is trying to pretend the U.S. is not at war with terrorists. What is the White House's response to those charges?

HENRY: Well, the new communications director Dan Pfeiffer put something up on the White House blog saying the president has indicated we are at war and battling terrorism. He indicated that in his inaugural address. They believe, and their firing back, saying they believe that the Bush administration did not wage a smart enough war on terror. We heard that again and again on the campaign last year. But it's clear that those wars left over from last year are playing out again in Washington once again here, John.

ROBERTS: Ed Henry for us in Honolulu. Ed, thanks so much.

Coming up, debating airport security. Should the full body scan machine be mandatory at every American airport? And tracking Al Qaeda, the terror group says the U.S. should brace for more attacks. Are we ready for them?

And why is the government rounding up the iconic wild American mustang?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: It was a terrible day for Americans in Afghanistan. Eight were killed in a suicide bombing at U.S. military base in Afghanistan. According to U.S. officials, they were not members of the military. The bomber gained access to the base where he detonated an explosive vest.

Security officials under deadline are racing to piece together how so many red flags were missed or ignored in that Christmas Day attempted bombing, President Obama demanding answers how the attempted airline bombing was so dangerously almost pulled off.

He is expecting an explanation by tomorrow. Jill Dougherty takes a look.

Unfortunately, we don't have Jill at this moment. We hope to get that for you in just a couple moments.

The Yemeni government along with U.S. military support has intensifying its fight against Al Qaeda in Yemen. Al Qaeda in Yemen took responsibility for the attack on Northwest Airlines flight 253. It said the attempt was in retaliation for U.S. strikes there, strikes they could see more of in the near future.

Barbara Starr has the latest on what could be a new crackdown against Al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yemeni forces earlier this month on a raid against Al Qaeda just north of the capital of Sana'a. The military shouts, "Come out. It is better for you. Do not be afraid." Shots are fired and several suspects are finally captured.

This was one of Yemen's efforts to hit back at Al Qaeda. U.S. assistance with several recent strikes that may have killed some of these men is now openly acknowledged. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are Yemeni armed forces attacks. They were of course supported by American intelligence and by the training of the Yemeni forces.

STARR: What is next? The U.S. military and the intelligence community are looking at everything they have got on Al Qaeda in Yemen. Strikes are expected to continue and could involve U.S. missiles or aircraft sources say. The U.S. and Yemen are looking for targets linked to the attack of U.S. flight 253.

But direct retaliation hasn't always worked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our target was terror. Our mission was clear. There will be no sanctuary for terrorists.

STARR: In 1998 after Al Qaeda attacked U.S. embassies in east Africa, President Clinton ordered cruise missile attacks against targets in Afghanistan. But Al Qaeda was untouched in Afghanistan. Key operatives had long led the area.

U.S. retaliation that worked in it happened in Yemen in 2002. A U.S. drone fired a missile. One of the dead was an Al Qaeda operative believed to have been behind the October, 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen that killed 17 sailors.

Even now, the U.S. is continuing to provide weapons, training, and intelligence in the Yemeni military. But if president Obama decides to launch a retaliation strike for the airline incident, the military will have a target ready for him -- John.

ROBERTS: Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon tonight. Barbara, thanks.

Barbara Bodine has a real understand of the threat posed by Al Qaeda in Yemen. She was the U.S. ambassador to Yemen from 1997 to 2001. During her service there, the USS Cole was attacked by Al Qaeda extremists while at anchor in the port of Aden, and 17 members of the Cole's crew were killed and ship heavily damaged.

Ambassador Bodine joins us now. Ambassador Bodine, are you surprised at all the Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab came through Yemen?

BARBARA BODINE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO YEMEN: Yes, a little. He is a Nigerian. It isn't the normal place you would expect. But a lot of people do go through Yemen. And it is a major area of Al Qaeda warehousing. The imam is there. So surprised, astounded, no. Somewhat surprised, yes, but it's not wholly unusual.

ROBERTS: Is Yemen in danger of becoming a failed state much like Afghanistan was? Some people believe it's already a failed state.

BODINE: No, I don't believe that Yemen is a failed state yet. It's been described by some of its friends as the always almost failing state. It has extraordinary problems in terms of resources, poverty, and it doesn't have the resources to be an utterly successful state. It isn't on the brink of failure. It could reach a tipping point and some missteps by their government or by ours could force them over the edge.

ROBERTS: And when you talk about those steps, at present the U.S. military is assisting Yemeni forces in counterterrorism training. Is the U.S. approaching the problem in Yemen the right way?

BODINE: In regards to our support on counterterrorism training and providing equipment, yes, I think that is the right thing to be doing. I think we run a risk of not doing it properly is not opening up the aperture enough to include development assistant, government assistance, the full range of support this country needs to stay ahead of the failure curve.

If we focus solely on trying to get Al Qaeda, while that is a very valid goal of ours, if that is the only thing we do, the rest of the indicators of Yemen will continue to slide backwards and in the long run, we will end up behind instead of ahead.

ROBERTS: Should the United States launch preemptive military strikes against Al Qaeda targets in Yemen? After the Cole bombing, both the Clinton and Bush administrations were criticized for not launching strikes there again.

BODINE: In your own setup piece, you indicating some of the limits of these kinds of strikes. The intelligence you need to have to hit the right people at the right time is extraordinarily difficult.

We're not dealing with a failed state. There is a sovereign, reasonably legitimate government there. It is one that has cooperated with us who has a similar concern on Al Qaeda.

And what we need to do is be a little bit smarter on which tools we use. Let's use intelligence and law enforcement. Let's use diplomacy and let's try to find these people and take care of them in a surgical style, if you like, than just a preemptive strike.

We can't do a preemptive strike in a vacuum. We don't know enough about Yemen. We don't know where these people are. We need to learn more before we just go in a strike.

ROBERTS: Barbara Bodine, the former U.S. ambassador to Yemen joining us tonight. Thanks very much. Really appreciate it.

BODINE: Thank you.

ROBERTS: And here now is that Jill Dougherty report on President Obama's demand for answers on the failed terror attack.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Obama says that the clues were there, that a fuller, clearer picture of the terror suspect would have emerged if all the bits and pieces had been shared.

OBAMA: The warning signs would have triggered red flags, and the suspect never would have been allowed to board that plane for America.

DOUGHERTY: But as one official told us, for the most part, it's a passive system where those bits and pieces are simply pushed on with no action taken.

A key question, why wasn't the suspect's visa revoked? The bureaucratic maze begins in Nigeria when six weeks ago his father warns the U.S. embassy his son is becoming radicalized and has gone to Yemen. He gives them the son's birthday, passport number, and that information was sent in routine brief to the National Counterterrorism Center in Washington.

Here, it's just one of hundreds of reports coming in each day which analysts with the CIA, FBI, Justice Department, and other agencies are supposed to evaluate side by side with those still coming in to make sure even seemingly insignificant dots get connected.

But in this case, with no urgency attached, the father's warning is treated more as a missing persons report. Since nothing else alarming comes up, the analysts put the suspect on so called tide list along with 550,000 other possibly suspicious people.

But that is where it stops. To go on to the next step or put someone on a no fly list or subject them to secondary screening, you need reasonable suspicion of a link to terrorism. And the counterterrorism center rules the evidence is simply not there. No recommendation is made to revoke his visa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOUGHERTY: And the critical point at which a terrorist could be stopped is being looked at very carefully in this presidential review. According to a person who's been briefed on it, the threshold could be made less restrictive to allow a quicker trigger for actions, such as revoking a visa.

That person says there was not a lack of information collection, but a lack of understanding of what to do with that information -- John.

ROBERTS: Jill Dougherty reporting for us tonight. Jill, thanks.

And coming up, looking for clues. Who was the young man charged with the failed suicide attack on Northwest Airlines flight 253?

And a new threat on the enduring symbol of the American wild west. We'll have that story for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: A controversial roundup of wild horses is underway in Nevada. The federal government is moving thousands of mustangs from their natural habitat. The government says the land is overpopulated. But as Louise Schiavone reports, not everyone agrees the round- ups are necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHIAVONE: During the next two months, the federal government will be rounding up more man 2,000 wild horses and burros in northern Nevada. The goal is to thin a herd of more than 3,000 ion a 850 square mile that when stretch shared with other wild life can support 900 at most.

Animal rights activists protest.

VIRGINIA PARANT, AMERICAN WILD HORSE PRESERVATION CAMPAIGN: What government organization rounds up wildlife to protect them? Usually the natural ecosystem takes care of itself.

TERRI FARLEY, HORSE ACTIVIST: I think it's the cattle interest. I think it's the mining interest. Instead of taking the wild horses east, they would move cattle off the land.

SCHIAVONE: The horse and burro drive is undertaken by the interior department's bureau of land management, using helicopters overhead to direct them to a trap site where they are checked by doctors to moved to holding areas and sanctuaries.

BLM director Bob Abbey says conditions of the snowy winter season make the drive less stressful.

BOB ABBEY, DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT: They are living on soft snow and also because of the distance they are moving, it's not too hot for them. So they don't necessarily overstress or get too hot as we are moving them along. And we take great precautions in moving the horses at a slow pace so we do not impact their health or safety.

SCHIAVONE: These half-ton animals run with the lightness of win, moving with the grace of supermodels, a symbol of the American west, and the perception they might not run free stirs deeply felt outcries.

PARANT: The horses do not represent a special interest, however, they are represented by the American public and the American public does care about the horses and the American are not a lobby in and of itself, but taxpayers should not have a say in how our lands are used.

SCHIAVONE: The people who run the public land says that gathers and relocating the animals is necessary for their survival. More than 30,000 wild horses are currently living on federal supported pastures east of their original habitat. The government has spent nearly $30 million this year maintaining the sanctuaries.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHIAVONE: John, the interior department says that horses deemed sick or injured beyond recover are euthanized, but most of the herd survives and BLM encourages horse lovers to consider adopting these animals in search of new homes -- John.

ROBERTS: They certainly do look beautiful running across the plains there. Louise Schiavone, thanks so much.

Coming up, we visit a city in Nigeria, hometown of the accused terrorist aboard the Detroit-bound flight on Christmas Day, also the site of religious violence over the years.

And a powerful attorney named to defend the suspect is no stranger to terrorism cases. Those stories are coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Who is the man accused of trying to blow up an airliner loaded with people on Christmas morning? What is his background? Our Christian Purefoy takes us to the suspect's hometown in Nigeria where the son of a wealthy banker is remembered as a popular young man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the small mosque once attended by Umar Abdulmutallab, the man who allegedly tried to let off a bomb aboard the Detroit flight on Christmas day. The last time Abdulmutallab came here to pray, his neighbors say was in August this year, just before he went to Yemen. Everyone here is shocked that he is not the center of a global terrorist alert. Was he a devout Muslim?

He would be the first at prayers and the last to leave says the local Imam but he didn't mingle. He liked isolation.

At the prestigious local school he attended, which does not even teach religion, this son of a wealthy Nigerian banker is remembered as well behaved and popular with his classmates. He mixed with children from all backgrounds here?

KERCHIRI SETH, VICE PRESIDENT, ESSENCE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: Yes, Christians, Muslims, Hindus because we have all religions here. And at the school.

PUREFOY: Do you have Americans here?

SETH: Yes, we have Americans.

PUREFOY: But outside of the school, there was violence of the streets. The city sits on one of the longest religious fault lines on the world. Separating a Christian sub Saharan Africa and a Muslim northern Africa. In 2000, nearly 1,000 people were killed here after religious riots and in 2002, thousands were displaced after the Miss World Competition was to be held here. It was canceled after tens of mosques and churches were burned. Growing up here, Abdulmutallab was certainly no stranger to religious violence.

Nobody that I met publicly supports Abdulmutallab's actions, but he is certainly not alone in his resentment against the west. The west promotes immoral values says this trader. It's wrong for the west to support the Israeli's to kill Muslims says another. Extremism is not taught here. There is no attempt to justify suicide attacks. Abdulmutallab must have learned his radical ideas in his studies aboard, he says. But he warns many similar young men from wealthy families studying in the Mideast are often returning with dangerous ideas. There are sects aboard that are trying to trap and brainwash our children, the Imam says. The question that concerns many here now is whether Abdulmutallab may not be the last young Nigerian to fall prey to radical and violent ideology.

Christian Purefoy, CNN, Nigeria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: When the accused terrorist walks into court for the first time next week, he will have one of the nation's most experienced defense attorneys at his side. She is a court appointed attorney paid for by U.S. taxpayers. As Chris Lawrence reports, she is no stranger to terrorism cases.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab comes from a wealthy family but his legal defense won't cost him a dime. The suspect cut off contact with his parents so the American taxpayers will foot the bill for his court appointed attorney.

There can be this perception that if someone has a public defender, even if it's a federal one, they are getting a lesser quality attorney. Is that the case with Abdulmutallab?

ALAN GERSHEL, THOMAS COOLEY LAW SCHOOL: No, quite the contrary. He is getting perhaps one of the most experienced attorneys in town, if not the country with respect to his situation. He is getting very high quality representation at no cost to himself.

LAWRENCE: He is getting Miriam Siefer.

GERSHEL: It's not every defense attorney who is universally respected and admired and I would say that she is one of the few that falls in that category.

LAWRENCE: Alan Gershel would know. He's the former head of criminal prosecutions for the U.S. attorney's office in Detroit. Siefer is chief federal defender in an office with 19 attorneys. How do you go about defending this?

MIRIAM SIEFER, SUSPECT'S ATTORNEY: It's very premature because the criminal complainers are really considered just preliminary charges.

LAWRENCE: In the first major terrorism trial after September 11, Siefer defended a man accused of being part of a Detroit terrorist cell plotting to blow up military bases and Disney Land. His conviction was overturned and he is living in a Detroit suburb. Siefer was also assigned to represent Terry Nichols' brother James when the Michigan native was a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombings. So this office isn't new to terrorism cases.

GERSHEL: They are not new they are not novices when it comes to representing clients based on these types of charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Gershel says the defense does have its challenges. Not the least of which is a plane full of witnesses to the attack. But he thinks they have some bargaining chips as well specially what, if any, information Abdulmutallab has about connections to terrorism organizations overseas. John?

ROBERTS: Chris Lawrence reporting tonight; Chris, thanks.

And coming up, playing the blame game, the political fallout over the mishandling of the attempted airline bombing.

And the controversy over body scanners. Are they necessary weapon against the war on terror or a costly invasion of privacy?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: A systemic failure, a serious of missed opportunities, eight years after 9/11, our intelligence agencies are not communicating to the extent that they should and President Obama is taking heat for his early response for his early response to the attempted bombing. Joining me at our political roundtable is Josh Gerstein. He is the white house reporter with Politico, republican strategist Kevin Madden, also in Washington and democratic strategist and CNN contributor Robert Zimmerman here in New York City with us.

Josh, let's start with you. Republicans have been all over the president over the fact it took him three days to respond to what happened on Christmas morning. And as you and other great correspondents have pointed out, President Bush waited six days back in December of 2001 to say anything about Richard Reed the shoe bomber. So the question a lot of people are wondering, is President Obama being judged more harshly here?

JOSH GERSTEIN, POLITICO: Well I think there is a little bit of a double standard. You can go back and find small differences. Some people would say it was only a few months after 9/11 so we wouldn't have expected them to fix everything and now we are eight years on and they should have fixed everything. A lot of that would have been Bush's fault, not necessarily Obama's fault. But back in 2001, the issue really wasn't even brought up with President Bush. It wasn't a question of him being held accountable. Reporters didn't even mention it to him.

ROBERTS: And Bob, some Democrats have not been happy with the way the president responded. What about you?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I must tell you I'm amongst those that feel the White House should have responded more comprehensively and much more aggressively early on in this crisis. I think what's important to know in this debate is that I don't agree with many of my Democratic friends who refer back to the shoe bomber incidence and George Bush waiting six days. The Bush administration wasn't the standard by which we measure our presidents. But I think what is critical is the scrutiny the Obama administration is facing is important and is a very good thing. Unlike the Bush administration's period post 9/11, there wasn't scrutiny from the Republicans or the Democrats or for that matter the media. I think that the scrutiny they are facing now is going to be very healthy.

ROBERTS: Kevin Madden, former Vice President Cheney came out and had some very harsh statements about President Obama and saying he is trying to pretend there is no war on terror. Did you believe the president is trying to pretend there is no war on terror?

KEVIN MADDEN REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't think it's a question of whether or not he's pretending. I think there are fundamental world views that we have here between Republicans and Democrats. I think Vice President Cheney comes from a roster of experience. Four years at defense secretary and eight years as vice president. He knows the threat and thinks this president should be taking a much more aggressive posture with terrorism around the globe, especially with enhances terrorism techniques or the policy with detainees in Gitmo. What you have here is a fundamentally different world view on how we approach these problems and then ultimately it's going to be litigated by the American public.

ZIMMERMAN: Kevin --

MADDEN: There are going to be people on the right they agree with Vice President Cheney and on the left that agree with President Obama.

ZIMMERMAN: Kevin, this is not a philosophical issue. This is about competence. And when Vice President Cheney uses the word pretend, let's not forget he pretended there were al Qaeda and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and launched this invasion under false pretenses and then he pretended Afghanistan is not the battle ground for terrorism.

ROBERTS: Josh, what do the facts show in terms of the president's approach to the war on terror?

GERSTEIN: Well in fact he has said we are at war on al Qaeda. He's said it on several occasions. His aides have said as much and in the first statement he did made on Monday, I noted that he not only said we would tighten the defenses but he said we are going play defense. We were going to go after them. And if you look at it even though it didn't get a lot of press attention there have been very aggressive military actions taken in Yemen over the last month. There's been reports of predator strikes and so forth. So to say they are sitting on their hands is unfair. They may use different rhetoric.

MADDEN: You know what I think this comes down to? I think it ultimately comes down to the criticism for the president at the beginning of this particular crisis here with the Nigerian was that the white house was somehow content to talk about what they were going to do rather than show. And that is the difference between the past administration and this administration. Right now, they seem to be talking about it and they have never showed it.

ROBERTS: Kevin, at the same time, there are people who have pointed out that two members of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula were released during the Bush administration and Abdulmutallab got his visa during the Bush administration. There is so much political ret kick thrown back and forth. Is that what we need now?

ZIMMERMAN: It's counterproductive. This game of got you is not unique to the Republican Party. The Democrats engage in the same game and the same strategy. I would point out for the record the facts are still the facts. President Obama did expand the war on al Qaeda in Afghanistan dramatically and expanded into Yemen and Somalia. It's not about showing it. It's about the rhetoric and the reality of the Obama administration.

ROBERTS: Another development tonight you are reporting on, the investigation that the president is asking for you into how the balls were dropped, how the dots were not connected, it's going to be led by the counterterrorism strategist adviser John Brennan. It's a white house insider who has a deep and long history at the CIA is going to look into this. And some people might raise issues of impartiality here. Who is your impression?

GERSTEIN: It cuts across both administrations. John Brennan, President Obama's counterterrorism adviser had a very high ranking role in the CIA and had a lot of contact with white house officials during the Bush administration. What is causing difficulty for the white house tonight and has forced them to issue an ethics waiver for him is that after he left government service, he went to work for a company called the Analytic Corporation that does work for the counterterrorism center and was involved in putting together and running the whole watch list operation so there is a question here of whether he is going to be reviewing work that his company did. The white house said that won't happen. They had to go through the process of an ethics waiver.

ROBERTS: Do you have questions?

MADDEN: I think when ultimately Congress comes back, there are going to be a -- and Robert Zimmerman and agree with me on the Democratic side. There is going to be a cauldron of hyper partisanship on the issue of homeland security policy. As sure as dogs will bark, politicians up on Capitol Hill that will play politics. The mistake they make is about small things, about administration officials and TSA appointments. This is going to be a hyper political year in 2010, where we have Congress is up for re- election, that we are going to see this fought about big things. The fundamental world view. Republicans and Democrats.

ZIMMERMAN: Well it's more than that. It's the scrutiny about the way that to fight the war on terrorism. And that is how we see Congress distinguish itself.

ROBERTS: And so starts an election year. Gentlemen, thank you. Good to have you in tonight.

Coming up, a security measure is back on the table. We will tell you why critics say full body scans are an invasion of your privacy. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: New security measures ordered day in Amsterdam. The Dutch government will use full body scans on passengers. There has been talk about brings such scans to United States. Sandra Endo reports critics say it goes too far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the TSA's answer to combat terror, full body scanners at airports. But it's controversial and confusing. The TSA is showing off the latest technology in a move to alleviate fears over the revealing body scan machine. Right now there are 40 body scanners used for primary or secondary screening nationwide, but the TSA is standing up to $170,000 apiece to buy 150 more for next year and plans to get another 300 units by 2012. There are two types. One uses so called back scatter technology to produce an x-ray type image. The other uses millimeter wave technology which shows a detailed photo negative of the person. In this demonstration, the TSA wants to show that privacy measures are in place. If a person's getting scanned over here, the officer viewing the image would be in a remote location in this booth. It also says that each person's face would be blurred out and no image would be saved or stored. But despite the costly and intrusive technology, human error could get in the way. In this video shot by CNN two years ago, it shows undercover TSA agents were able to get simulated bomb making materials past screeners trained to detect images with bag x-ray machines. Still a former TSA official says a body scanner could have stopped the alleged Christmas day bomber.

CHARLOTTE BRYAN, AVIATION SECURITY EXPERT: I believe they would have detected there was something there in that position on his body. It may not have detected it as an explosive but it would have raised flags that would have required further detection and a review by either an officer or further scanning.

ENDO: Critics say full body scanners should not be the only answer.

GEOFF FREEMAN, U.S. TRAVEL ASSOCIATION: Right now, the system is not working as effectively as it needs to not just for security but for travelers. The system isn't working. It's time to press pause and do a review of what we have today and put in place the policies that will provide America with the world's most secure and efficient travel process.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENDO: Passengers do have the right to refuse the body scan and could get a patdown instead, but in light of the Christmas incident, body scanners are being considered or implemented at airports around the world including places like Amsterdam and Nigeria.

ROBERTS: Sandra Endo for us in Arlington, Virginia tonight. Sandra, thanks so much.

Joining me now is Congressman Jason Chaffetz. He has proposed legislation banning full body scanners as a primary method of screening. The measure passed the house with bipartisan support and pending action in the senate.

Congressman, good to see you tonight. What do you think of the Dutch saying that all people who are headed on aircraft for the Unite States will go through one of the total body screeners. Are you happy about that?

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Well I applaud who they are doing and also what they're doing and they're committed to is the software that these manufacturers are developing that can actually read and look at the scan and see if there is an anomaly that requires an even further screening. That would alleviate the privacy concerns that I have and others have and would get to the root of the problem.

ROBERTS: OK. If the United States were to adopt the same sort of software technology in body scanners here, would you be comfortable with them as a primary method of screening?

CHAFFETZ: Yeah if you get rid of the personal privacy issues, where you don't have an individual looking at my 8-year-old daughter naked just to get on an airplane, then I'd be fully supportive of it. But the technology works. I think it should be fully deployed in the United States and internationally as a secondary screening device and what's troubling about what happened on the Christmas day incident is that is a poster child for who should get secondary screening. He should have gone through those machines and they were in Nigeria and in Amsterdam but they weren't used.

ROBERTS: Should have, could have, would have. Hindsight is always 20/20. Under your bill, he may not have been required to go through mat sheen because he didn't set off an alarm that would have taken him to the secondary screening. Your bill has them used if there is reason to not allow the passenger on the aircraft.

CHAFFETZ: He should have never even got to the airport.

ROBERTS: But the issue is Congressman, he did get to the airport. Last line of defense, what is the best way to approach it?

CHAFFETZ: We want to have safety and security to everyone but we have to balance out the security issues. We have to find technology that is more effective and less invasive. Even if you have someone go through a medal detector and walk by a dog, that would be a lot less invasive and much more effective and would have solved the problem and people would have been happy. The technology is there. We need to implement it.

ROBERTS: I mean this gets into rather touchy territory here. For a dog to screen somebody, they need to get the nose up close and personal and we know where the fella had the bomb hidden. Do you think passengers would be comfortable after going through a metal detector to have a dog -- and they seem to be hard wired to do this, stick a nose in his crotch?

CHAFFETZ: I don't know how close they have to get but I know the dogs are highly effective. On CNN.com there is a video about how effective the dogs can be. Again the point is I think the American people demand, I demand, that we are more effective and less invasive. Let's make sure we maintain privacy, our civil liberties, at the same time increase security. We had systemic failures, as the president said, the guy even getting to the airport. Let's do everything we can to get a balance between the two.

ROBERTS: Now your measure also provides for if someone doesn't want to go through the back scanner, they can opt for a patdown. How thorough would that patdown be? Again, I don't mean to be obsessed with crotches tonight. We know where he did the bomb hidden. And most patdowns don't go there.

CHAFFETZ: You worry about them scoring something in a body cavity. And again that is where I think Fido the dog might be the solution we need. I think we need to start profiling terrorists not based on race or religion, but we have to start profiling terrorists and get more serious about screening them and not even allowing them to get on airplanes. And the 550,000 people on a watch list who is watching those people? They have to be highlighted as secondary screening that is invasive and thorough.

ROBERTS: All right. Congressman Jason Chaffetz, good to talk with you tonight. Thanks for coming on.

CHAFFETZ: Thanks John. Happy new year.

ROBERTS: Same to you, sir.

Coming up at the top of hour, Campbell Brown here with a preview. Hi Campbell.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there John. We are going to stay on the story at the top of the hour. We have more on the missed signals leading up to the Christmas day bombing attempt. And tonight's news maker, John, the man who spend nearly four years as our nation's homeland security secretary, Michael Chertoff. He is going to tell me what he thinks went wrong and how he believes we can and should fix it. John?

ROBERTS: Thanks. See you soon.

It appears that Texas Tech will have to play the Alamo bowl without its head coach. The head coach was fired after accusations of player mistreatment. It came hours before he was due in court about the issue. He was confiding a wide receiver to small, dark spaces during team practices after he complained of concussion symptoms. In November, Kansas football coach Mike Manbegino resigned after players accused him of being verbally abusive.

Coming up next, a music video becomes a national treasure. Stay with us.

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ROBERTS: The late Michael Jackson's landmark music video Thriller is now officially a national treasure. The 1983 music video is one of 25 films inducted for preservation this year in the library of Congress. It's the first music video in the national film registry. Others include the Muppet movie from 1979, that film of course marked the first time Kermit the frog and Miss Piggy appeared together on the big screen. The films were selected for their enduring importance to American culture.

Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us again tomorrow evening and I will see you bright and early tomorrow morning 6 a.m. eastern for "AMERICAN MORNING" with Kiran Chetry.