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CNN Tonight
Politics Set Aside In Times Of Turmoil; House Committee Voted To Subpoena Trump; No Assurance It Is January 6th Committee's Last Hearing; Secret Service Aware Of Threat Prior To Insurrection; Lawmakers Scramble For Their Safety. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 13, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That's tomorrow at 9 p.m. Eastern. Please join us. Our coverage continues now with the fantastic Laura Coates, the amazing Alisyn Camerota. Laura Coates, Alisyn Camerota. Coates and Camerota, how you guys doing?
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: We're doing well, Fabulous Jake Tapper. We appreciate the toss. And we've been watching your show, all fascinating, particularly all of this never-before-seen footage. Jake, thank you.
TAPPER: Thanks, guys.
CAMEROTA: OK, so we've got more of our special live coverage of the January 6th committee hearing and it's never-before-seen documentary footage.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: And I'm Laura Coates. And this is CNN TONIGHT.
And you're right, bombshell is actually the word for it. The committee it saved its best surprise for last, and they voted to subpoena the former President Donald Trump, which I have to say, that is kind of saving the best for last. But is there already a spoiler alert that he's not going to show up?
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, I think that they might have some recourse, but we'll ask our legal experts about that. But that was definitely a finale that they planned. But I thought that that footage was riveting and appalling.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: And I could have watched it for hours.
COATES: I watched it and I thought to myself, what a contrast between, remember last time we heard about what Donald Trump was doing and what Mark Meadows was doing? I mean, picture it. It's like almost golden girls picture it. You know, the January 6th. You've got Mark Meadows scrolling on his cell phone. You've got the president of the United States not doing anything. You've got Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Chuck Schumer.
I mean, everyone who was in leadership gathered around calling everyone in this phone tree.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: I thought that was so unbelievable to see.
CAMEROTA: And I also thought they were stunningly composed and collecting.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: I mean, really remarkable to see the -- their calm versus the sort of medieval blood thirsty mob.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: The juxtaposition of those two things.
COATES: And we saw one of the officers, remember the officer who got so much credit as he should have for playing a decoy and steering them away.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: When you saw the angle from the vantage point of what he was up against in that moment, and a lot of it we had seen some part before, but when you saw what he was up against and trying to keep them all safe, I just could not believe, I mean, in fact, let's look at some what we're talking about right here. It's unbelievable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: They have. OK, well, D.C. has requested the National Guard and it's been denied by DOD. I'd like to know a good God reason why it's been denied. I apologize for being so --
UNKNOWN: Don't apologize.
SCHUMER: Please move. It's -- the whole capitol is rampage. There's a picture of someone sitting in this chair, the Senate.
UNKNOWN: There been shots fired.
SCHUMER: We've all been evacuated.
UNKNOWN: Shots fired.
SCHUMER: They've been shots fired. We need a full National Guard component now. Was it denied at the first? No.
NANCY PELOSI (D), U.S. SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: What are you saying? SCHUMER: OK, then I won't take you. Get -- we need them fast. We've
all had to -- I've never seen anything like this. We're like a third world country here. We had to run and evacuate the capitol, 400 congressmen and 200 senators and all the staff. OK. We need help right away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK, let's bring in our panel. We have Elliot Williams, Olivia Troye and David Urban with us tonight. We have so many questions for you, guys.
Elliot, I'll just start with you. Legally, what's changed now that we've seen all of this?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, not a lot has changed legally. Look, to paraphrase Taylor Swift here, we are never, ever, ever seeing the testimony of Donald Trump for the January 6th committee.
Now, look, it was a powerful statement. It is Congress saying that they're going to issue a subpoena to a former president of the United States, but they're not going to get him to show up. Number one, the clock, they just don't have a ton of time.
CAMEROTA: Well, what's their recourse? What can -- what -- how can they enforce --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- a subpoena if he doesn't comply?
WILLIAMS: OK. Number one, they can sue him. We can file a contempt resolution and vote on it, right, and then send it to the Justice Department. Justice Department can charge him with contempt of Congress. Now, the question is, that's going to be a legal fight, whether you like Donald or not, he's going to challenge it. He has a right to challenge it.
He's actually got a little bit of a basis for it. He's a foreign president of the United States.
COATES: And you know --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COATES: Bureaucracy, as you know.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COATES: The bureaucracy is not just in Congress. Right? You get the red tape. Just think of how long it took for Bannon when Bannon was referred for the criminal contempt, right. I think it was like October one date, November a grand jury, a trial in July. I mean, that's not the time we're looking at right now. WILLIAMS: And there's one more big thing to remember. You still have
to give him an opportunity to not comply with the subpoena. Right now, they've just voted on it. And look, you know, he's not going to complex too.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: How long does he have?
WILLIAMS: Well, you have to see what he does? And so does he write a nasty letter saying, I'm never, never ever, ever going to come in. Does he, does he simply just, just blow them off? So, at a minimum, you got to give them at least a couple days or weeks to see how it plays out.
COATES: Well, we've never seen Trump ignore a subpoena or not hand over document.
WILLIAMS: Yes. But you can't --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: I mean, we've -- we've never seen this even recently out of Florida, right?
WILLIAMS: It's funny.
COATES: I mean, this is the reason they probably fast tracked, don't you think? To go from request to boom.
[22:04:59]
WILLIAMS: Rather curiously, you know, yes. No, we -- we haven't seen that kind of behavior before. But the problem is you can't charge him with a crime now for this until he misbehaves now. Now you know he is going to do it. We can assume he is going to do it, but you got to wait for that to happen before you sue him.
CAMEROTA: I want to get back to this super compelling video --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- that we've never seen before because there were so many stunning moments. I mean, just jaw dropping, and one of them was seeing all of the top lawmakers in the country together in one circle, Republicans, Democrats, everybody from Scalise to Nancy Pelosi to --
COATES: McCarthy.
CAMEROTA: -- Kevin McCarthy, all there talking to the secretary of defense about what to do. So let me play this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Pull out.
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: We're in one helluva hurry, you understand?
CHRISTOPHER MILLER, FORMER ACTING U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: You, I got you loud and clearly your --
SCHUMER: This cannot be just - we're waiting for so and so. We need them there now, whoever you got.
PELOSI: Just pretend for a moment it was the Pentagon or the White House or some other entity that was under siege. You can logistically get people there as you make the plan and you have some leadership of the National Guard there, they have not been given the authority to activate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: On that point, I mean the pretend it's a Pentagon or the White House.
OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Right.
COATES: I mean, you had a government building under siege. Imagine if it was that, what would've happened? That -- that's the question everyone goes back to, why this was so striking. And in your background, you already know that they would've been activated. They would've had a plan in motion and they still would have sent people right away, right?
TROYE: Yes, absolutely. And this is what, but it has bothered me from day one, actually when I woke up the morning of January 6th and saw no fencing, no layout with all of the threats online, and today was confirmation. When all of that information was coming from the Secret Service where they were sending these messages, they were fully aware of the threat landscape that was out there on social media.
They were fully aware. The deputy secretary of defense was sending messages saying they could occupy the capitol. They could do this. They could do that. Everyone was aware of this, and yet you have the leadership of the country on the phone real time begging for help, basically.
CAMEROTA: Why?
TROYE: That's what we're asking.
CAMEROTA: We're going to talk to Congressman Adam Schiff coming up about this.
COATES: Yes.
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's a failure.
CAMEROTA: Why didn't they? So, it was a Secret Service.
URBAN: No, no, no. This is -- this is, look, this is -- this was, and there are far more people who are far more experts than I, but the FBI had this information, which they passed on the Secret Service. That goes across chat boards, the Metropolitan Police Department, the U.S. Capitol Police, Secret Service.
I mean, everybody in D.C. knew this was coming, right? And so, the Capitol Police, there should be -- this should have been a part of January 6th hearings. Why weren't we better prepared for this?
CAMEROTA: Well, Olivia, you're, I mean --
TROYE: Right.
CAMEROTA: -- you are an expert in Homeland Journey. Why weren't they better prepared?
TROYE: So, here's the thing, it was not an intelligence failure, right? The intelligence was all there, all the tells were there. It was a failure to act upon the intelligence. And what happened here at the cabinet?
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: But, so why weren't the Capitol Police prepared?
COATES: Well, you know, I think that might be part of the report as well. I mean, obviously we talk about a report, you know, it's a television medium that they're using. They intentionally are trying to use that because they wanted to get as many people as possible. They even push back, as you recall the hearing from Hurricane Ian to get as many eyes and focus and priorities -- prior to this.
So, we'll hear about those details and they are having an oversight function. But I mean, just take a step back and just think about what we were seeing. Now, one of the people we mentioned was the commander in chief. I mean, you had people out there and they kept saying these words at the instigation of the president of the United States, and I kept thinking was Secret Service. Are they implying they were also against the officers?
If they knew the information and didn't do anything about it, did they want to see this happen? And why would that be?
URBAN: Now listen, I don't think the Secret Service failed as Olivia is saying. I don't think it was a failure of intelligence. I think it was a failure of planning, right? They're calling Chris -- Christopher Miller, the secretary of defense. It's not like they -- he's sitting at the Pentagon with the soldiers in uniform, and by the way, soldiers, they're prefer to fight wars, not to do policing actions, right?
The National Guard has that role, right? And so, there's a failure on many places here. I think, listen, that tape is just absolutely mind bogging. This January 6th committee that had just played that and set back and not said anything, I think that has served in very well.
(CROSSTALK) COATES: I wonder why -- we're just talking about that Alisyn.
URBAN: It's really -- it's really much more.
CAMEROTA: You think that that would've been more effective --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- you all think so.
COATES: What do you think?
WILLIAMS: In terms of not having witnesses?
COATES: No. And wait, just playing. I mean, what we're all talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: In all 40 minutes, all 40 plus, all hour, whatever we have.
WILLIAMS: It's just hard to know what resonates with people. Now to some extent, you know, what we're like you said, Laura, what we're building toward is a big report that lays out the facts of the day. Now look, it, you know, you know, and getting back to your point, David, I just feel like we in America, woke up prior January 6th, we woke up on, frankly September 10th, 2011, just assuming that things can't happen in the United States of America.
And I actually think those intelligence, not intelligence failures, but sort of planning failures stem from the fact that we just simply did not think this kind of thing could happen and did not think that people would actually storm the capitol and rubbing feces on the walls and you know, and all of the -- these salacious facts that have come out.
[22:10:06]
And I think part of that is our, I think our sense of safety that we sort of baked into us as Americans, that got broken that day.
CAMEROTA: I also just want, I just wanted to talk about one human moment that the tapes reveal and it is once again, left and right, Democrats and Republicans trying to figure out how to survive and how they're going to keep democracy intact. And this is the moment where Speaker Pelosi is talking to Vice President Pence and she's saying, are you OK?
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: And it's a shared moment of humanity. Are you safe? Are you OK? Be careful.
COATES: So let's don't tell them where you are. CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: I'm handing the phone.
PELOSI: Hi, Mr. Vice President. Hi. Yes, we're OK. We're here with Mr. Schumer, Mr. McConnell, the leadership, House and Senate. And how are you? My goodness. Where are you? God bless you. But are you in a very safe --
UNKNOWN: Very special --
PELOSI: Well, that we are still not safe enough for us to go back. We're being told it could take days to clear the capitol. And that we should be more than everyone here to get the job done. We're at (muted), which has facilities for the House and the Senate to meet. We'd rather go to the capitol and do it there, but it doesn't seem to be safe.
We've gotten a very bad report about the conditions of the House floor with defecation and all that kind of thing. We're OK. And that caused back, OK. I worry about you being in that capitol (Inaudible). Don't let anybody know where you are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: There's so much there, Laura.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COATES: There's so --
CAMEROTA: There's no so much there. I worry about you. God bless you. I'm going to eat a slim gym while we talk.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Mike Pence is still in the garage. He was still in the capitol.
TROYE: He's at the garage.
COATES: He's still there.
URBAN: He's still there.
CAMEROTA: It's -- there's so much in that moment --
URBAN: Hadn't left.
CAMEROTA: -- Olivia, and of course, you know, Vice President Pence very well, and the fact that they're having this human moment while everything is going to hell.
TROYE: Yes. And they're calm and what I saw there was leadership. I saw two leaders talking to each other in a moment of crisis, supporting each other, sending the right messages to each other, checking on each other and saying, you know, it was kind of, we're going to get through this. Are you OK?
It didn't matter. Politics in that moment did not matter. That is the way it should be. That is the kind of crisis that I see with leaders and cabinet members that I've worked with, where in that moment it is really about how do we get through this together. Whereas, Donald Trump was checked out and cheering these people on.
COATES: Yes.
TROYE: I mean, that was just so striking.
COATES: We should mention of course, though, how we got this footage. I mean, it's important. I mean, the per -- why we had this inside perspective is because it was captured by the daughter of Nancy Pelosi, who's a well-known documentarian. She happened --
CAMEROTA: Alexandra.
COATES: Alexandra. She happened to be there trying to capture the moment that we expect to have a peaceful transfer of power.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: A peaceful transfer of power. Shot more than that.
COATES: And then it turned, and she -- that's why we have it right here. It's unbelievable.
URBAN: And I wish it spliced a little bit more the like, the Mike Pence side of it in, right?
COATES: Yes.
URBAN: Because, you know, Mike Pence had to evacuate. He was the Secret Service was very concerned about him. And you saw from this footage, and it was in part of this.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
URBAN: But you know, he's down there and he calls back to Pelosi and says, hey, listen, I've talked to the sergeant at arms.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
URBAN: I've talked to everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: And we're going to play that. I do --
URBAN: We've got this cleared.
CAMEROTA: That's such an important moment.
URBAN: I mean, he kind of takes charge, right?
TROYE: That's kind of great.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
URBAN: And, you're asking where was the president. Well, Mike Pence was kind of acting as the president.
COATES: Yes.
CTROYE: Yes, absolutely.
CAMEROTA: We're going to play that moment right after the break.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Right after this break.
CAMEROTA: So, everybody, stick around. We have much more to talk about. We also want to hear from you, what are your thoughts on this never-before-seen January 6th video. And of course, anything else you want to say to Laura and me, you can treat us at Alisyn Camerota and at the Laura Coates.
COATES: Well, not anything. Not just --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: OK. I mean, obviously keep it clean.
COATES: Within reason. We'll be right back.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: You know, it's amazing to see these new videos. I mean, really it is, thinking about what was actually like for the Democrats, for the Republicans who are working together, I might add, to keep the government functioning, to actually perform the role that they were supposed to play on that day while an attack was playing out on the capitol against law enforcement.
I mean, they were trying to prevent this peaceful, peaceful transition of power as we come to know here in the United States. And who did nothing to stop them in these videos and through the presentation of evidence? The president of the United States, the commander in chief.
We got Elliot Williams, Olivia Troye, and David Urban all back with us.
It's unbelievable where we are. CAMEROTA: And it's also what I was struck by was how close he came to
not happening. There were moments there where Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer and Chuck Schumer don't think it's going to happen that day.
COATES: What's the it? I mean, --
CAMEROTA: The vote.
COATES: The vote.
CAMEROTA: They don't think the certification is going to happen where she says, we're being told we won't be able to get back in there for maybe weeks. There's so much damage and they think it's not going to happen.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: And then there's the moment that we were talking about before. So, let's just do it up where -- (CROSSTALK)
URBAN: Where Vice Pence save the day.
CAMEROTA: Where Mike Pence --
COATES: A relief.
URBAN: Saved the day.
CAMEROTA: Where Vice President Pence calls them and gives them what they describe as incredibly good news. So, here's that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Madam Speaker, (Inaudible) building. I'm literally standing with the chief of the U.S. Capitol Police. He just informed me so their best information is that they believe that the House and the Senate will be able to be in roughly an hour.
SCHUMER: Good news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: And what a comfort, what a moment.
COATES: What a relief.
URBAN: Mike Pence.
COATES: Yes.
URBAN: A round of applause for Mike Pence.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: I mean --
COATES: But let's talk about those.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: Why that was so important for them to do that. Because before she's walking in, she's saying at one point, Nancy Pelosi is saying, you know, if we don't get this done, I'm paraphrasing her. If we don't get this done, it will be, we will have failed. It will have been a complete victory for them.
And in that moment, just getting it there and remember, you know, Pence refused to leave the capitol.
TROYE: Yes.
COATES: They wanted this image and I think on behalf of the United States, because the world, the world by now was watching.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COATES: That they had to stay there and get the job done.
WILLIAMS: And in fact, there's --
CAMEROTA: He knew that.
COATES: He knew that.
WILLIAMS: There's another clip earlier where she says, I am paraphrasing here, but we need to have a show of strength. We need to show the, you know, I'm paraphrasing here, but the continuity of government, and this gets back to the point we were --
COATES: Yes.
WILLIAMS: -- talking about a little bit earlier, this idea that America, things happened in America that we expect to happen with, like Chuck Schumer said, third world countries, using the term that he used.
[22:20:05]
If we saw this happen anywhere else in the world, all of our newspapers, all of our television networks would've been blasting them for that kind of conduct. But it happened in the United States.
URBAN: Well, peaceful transition of power, right, is the hallmark of our nation, right?
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
URBAN: On this day, a hallmark right now. CAMEROTA: But David, but from a Republican point of view, I'm curious about this. When you see that Vice President Pence stayed there because he knew it had to be done. When you -- there was a moment also in a different part of the documentary footage where they say, Mitch wants this done today. So, Mitch McConnell knows the importance of it being done.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: All of the leaders that we hear know the importance of being it done, it getting done, and then to see the evolution, if that's what you're going to call it, of where Kevin McCarthy is now. He doesn't comply with the subpoena for January 6th. He now has -- seems to have amnesia about some parts of that night. How do you explain that?
URBAN: Yes, look, I mean, I think, you know, separating the committee, right, from what happened actually, right? The committee, I think is a very partisan. The partisan --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: How else do you want to get to the bottom of it without a committee?
URBAN: I understand, Alisyn. So, listen, they could had -- they could have done a lot of different ways. I think the committee should have been, it should have been like a 9/11 commission where there's, it's bipartisan, there's a lot of different --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: It is bipartisan.
WILLIAMS: Well --
COATES: They had that chance, David, they had the chance to do it.
URBAN: OK. I understand. Listen.
COATES: They had a chance to do it bipartisan.
TROYE: They were trying for that.
COATES: They did.
URBAN: Listen, I sat here through, you know, the Mueller investigation and two impeachments, and so, you know, this is the -- the problem is when you -- when you cry wolf so many times, and the wolf shows up like it did on January 6, Americans don't pay attention.
WILLIAMS: OK, let me -- let me --
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: The wolf showed up. WILLIAMS: Let me make a counterpoint to that though, right? If I commit an act of arson today, robbery, next week, theft and larceny the week after that, you can't say that, well, you know, there's four different investigations and they don't all make sense. And they also blur together. Each of them independently is a serious event.
URBAN: Yes. But the Mueller investigation.
WILLIAMS: What's --
URBAN: I guess it's a fabrication.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Yes, it's exactly right.
URBAN: The Steele dossier didn't exist. It didn't exist.
CAMEROTA: There was a lot more about the Mueller report --
URBAN: No.
CAMEROTA: -- than the Steele dossier.
URBANL It was built on the Steele. It was built on a lie.
URBAN: What I'm saying --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Wait, this sounds like deflection to me.
URBAN: Is that inflection? No. I'm saying listen.
COATES: But David, David, --
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: I'm saying January 6th is a serious, serious episode, right?
COATES: We just want -- yes.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
URBAN: A serious event.
COATES: Yes. But the Mueller report, see this is I want to be very clear.
URBAN: Yes.
COATES: I'm not trying to compartmentalize and I'm not trying to make it seem like there aren't moments who have actual valid points to --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COATES: -- to talk about the criticism, but what you saw in January 6th is a very different matter than the Mueller probe.
URBAN: Absolutely. That's my point.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: I mean, in the attempt --
URBAN: That's my point, too.
COATES: But you're not making that point. Instead, you're talking that they're similar.
URBAN: My point is, January 6th is such a serious date, and if we didn't have these proceeding --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
URBAN: -- sham political impeachment.
CAMEROTA: And that's why Kevin McCarthy has amnesia about it?
URBAN: No, I think that's why he didn't want to participate in this. He saw this is another extension of politics. That's what I -- that's what I think in America.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: You know what? You know what.
TROYE: I don't know about that.
WILLIAMS: Let me say something else. I feel like the three of us have all worked for elected officials before, and getting back to this question of the human moment between politicians, right? There is a lot of theater and artifice when politicians go out there and put on a show and an act, and I think because Kevin McCarthy was frightened of his base and how they would've revolted on him, that that's what led to the change of heart?
I mean, I think, but you know, but when the doors are closed, I think those private conversations that we've all been privy to them.
URBAN: Again, again, if you -- if we don't think that the January 6th --
(CROSSTALK)
TROYE: (Inaudible) story.
URBAN: -- this investigation, this particular thing we're watching is political and partisan, I don't think that you're -- 50 percent of America don't agree.
WILLIAMS: But I, you know --
(CROSSTALK) COATES: Well, wait, Here's a moment from the Rose Garden for a second. I mean, talk about the idea of how the politics come to play. Watch this and tell me what you think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This was a fraudulent election, but we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You're very special.
SCHUMER: So, we shouldn't let him off the hook, Nancy. So, we issued a statement saying he's got to make a statement. He comes up with this B.S.
PELOSI: Insurrection.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
PELOSI: That's a crime and he's guilty of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: We love you. You're very special.
URBAN: Let's be clear. Let's be clear. Those people are --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Why is this the Mueller --
URBAN: -- those people are criminals.
COATES: But why --
URBAN: Those people are criminals.
COATES: But my point, why did this remind you to bring up the Mueller probe?
URBAN: No, because we're talking --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
URBAN: -- we talked about Alisyn said why do you think McCarthy didn't -- didn't comply with this, with, you know, and participate with this? Because McCarthy and a lot of Republicans see this as another political --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Wait a second.
URBAN: January 6. Not this.
COATES: You know what. URBAN: Not this, not this.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
URBAN: These people, let's be clear. The people who did that, what you just saw are criminals and they should be prosecuted and they're going to be prosecuted. They should go to jail, right? Full stop.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: You've been consistent about that.
TROYE: Can I just say something though about that from a national security standpoint, when I'm sitting here listening to this. That actually gives me grave concern going forward with having Republicans in office and leadership, if that's how they view what's basically a domestic terrorism attack on our soil. And they're not going to investigate it because it's a political game show and sham and it's partisan or whatever.
WILLIAMS: Well.
TROYE: That really worries me about the future that --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Let me add to that. Let me add to that. Because when we talk about this as partisan, it's like the line from Animal Farm, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
[22:24:59]
Well, some Republicans are equal, but some are more Republicans than others. Because literally, this is a bipartisan committee. Now, whether, but David, whether --
URBAN: Elliot, I hear you.
WILLIAMS: -- whether we like that Liz or Republicans like that Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger don't play the party line on this issue. They are Republicans. And this idea that in order to be a Republican one ought to be fully locked up with Donald Trump. It's toxic, look, I'm not a politics person, but it's like, I think it's toxic to the -- to the party -- TROYE: I agree.
WILLIAMS: -- and to the American political --
CAMEROTA: The last word.
URBAN: And look, there was some dispute even with Trump, right? Trump was saying like, he got mad at McCarthy for not putting more Republicans on the committee. Right? He wanted more people on there to participate and have a defense. Right? And I think it would've been -- America would've been better served if there was a robust contingent of Republicans on this panel who could have cross-examined, had their stay -- had their day, and then maybe McCarthy would've participated in this.
CAMEROTA: Maybe. I mean, they made their choice, but in any event, it is --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Trump might have his day if he comes to the subpoena.
URBAN: Listen, don't listen. He may show up.
CAMEROTA: He could.
URBAN: Don't underestimate this guy. He may show up.
CAMEROTA: OK. That's it. And on that note, that's very interesting. So how did the committee decide to subpoena Donald Trump and how will they enforce it? Congressman Adam Schiff is here live with us.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: All right. After all this, there are big questions about what's going to come next after the January 6th committee has voted to subpoena the former president of the United States. But we learned a whole lot today from the brand-new evidence of the committee uncovered and told the American people today.
Congressman Adam Schiff laying out some of the very damning details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Days before January 6th, the president's senior advisors at the Department of Justice and FBI, for example, received an intelligence summary that included material indicating that certain people traveling to Washington were making plans to attack the capitol. This summary noted online calls to occupy federal buildings, rhetoric about invading the capitol building.
Northwest (Ph) says during one of these calls, the greatest threat is a direct assault on the capitol.
Their plan is to literally kill people. Our lawmakers in Congress can leave one of two ways, one in a body bag, two, after rightfully certifying Trump the winner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Congressman Adam Schiff joins us now. Congressman, I have to say when I was watching this and seeing this unfold and seeing the text messages, the e-mails, the fact that there was advanced notice from the Secret Service, I couldn't believe that this was known and wasn't a, prevented, but, b, that they wanted to bring the president of the United States at some point over to this area.
What is -- are the next steps now that we've got this subpoena voted on? Are you going to try to get more people aside from the former president to talk about this?
SCHIFF: Well, first of all, you're absolutely right. I mean, it is really shocking when you see in vivid detail the information the Secret Service had. Not only generally about the violence intended, and targeted at the capitol, but also at their own protectees (Ph), and most particularly the Vice President of the United States.
And that they would even entertain, or allow the president to entertain for hours the idea that he was going to go to the capitol with this arm mob, is really very startling.
Yes, we intend to bring people back in from the Secret Service. You know, some who may have testified in ways that we don't find credible now that we have obtained this documentary evidence, but other witnesses potentially that we haven't heard from as well.
So, we intend to follow up in that way. And of course, you know, the big witness we want to hear from is the former president himself.
CAMEROTA: Yes, of course. And I do want to get to that, Congressman. Alisyn is here with Laura as well.
But I just want to ask you one more thing about the Secret Service. What did they do about those threats? I mean, since you presented this evidence that they knew, they had a heads up, they knew that there were direct, incredible threats against members of Congress 10 days or more before January 6.
COATES: The morning of, in some cases.
CAMEROTA: I mean, they had for days they knew about this. And so why didn't they do anything, what should they have done? And did they lie? Did some Secret Service agents lie to the committee about this?
SCHIFF: Well, that's a very good question, and we're trying to determine, whether people were candid with us when they testified before. We're also looking into issues, which I can't go into the particulars, that there may have been efforts to obstruct, are getting information about some of the incidents that we talked about in the hearing today.
So, there is more to get to the bottom of, in terms of why they didn't do more, to try to protect their -- those that they're meant to safeguard and guard. It's a very good question. They had all this information, but you know, again, I think some of the most powerful evidence, is the fact that the Secret Service told the president on the Mall that day. That people wouldn't go through the metal detectors because they were armed and they didn't want to give up their weapons, and he was OK with that.
In fact, he was fine with them going to the capitol with their weapons. He was incensed that he couldn't go with them.
COATES: And in fact, on that point, we remember from earlier testimony the statement that essentially said these, they're not here for me. So, he didn't think that there was a concern about himself, but of course they were marching towards the capitol, which of course, Congresswoman Liz Cheney began the hearing today in part, Congressman, talking about that today was going to focus on the state of mind of the former president.
[22:35:01]
You know, you and I, both attorneys, both former prosecutors, thinking about how you get to the state of mind conversation. Obviously, the best evidence you can have of one state of mind can be from the proverbial horse's mouth.
Do you think that there is a chance now that there has been this subpoena voted on unanimously by the committee that the former president is actually going to a, show up, or even provide any documents.
SCHIFF: Well, first of all, I think you're exactly right. often the most powerful evidence comes from the horse's mouth. And you pointed to one of, I think, the most critical pieces of evidence. That is when the president is confronted, with the fact these people are armed, he says, you know, they're not here to hurt me.
And he's OK with them marching on the capitol because he knows where their violence is directed. We also presented today, I think, other powerful evidence of the president's intent when his own top Justice Department people are going through the litany of his bogus claims of fraud and shooting them down one after another.
And what does the president's response? Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republicans. But we do hope that the president will come in, and answer for what we have presented, answer questions as indeed many other presidents have, and former presidents.
In terms of what are the odds that he will. I really -- I really can't say, he may be too scared to be under oath. Too afraid to come in and testify. But we would hope, of course, that he will have some sense of duty as other presidents have. But only time will tell.
CAMEROTA: Congressman, what's your plan.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: What is your plan if he doesn't comply?
SCHIFF: Well, you know, we will cross that bridge when we get to it. We're not going to presuppose that the president will be unwilling. We hope that he will follow the path other presidents have, but if he doesn't, then we'll decide as a committee what the next step should be.
COATES: Congressman, we didn't hear from some of the people that you did interview as a part of the panel since the last we heard from the January 6th committee, Steve Mnuchin, Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Will we be hearing in an additional hearing of some kind or will that all be a part of a report that's written from the likes of Ginni Thomas and others?
SCHIFF: Well, I think, you know, first of all, you know, we may do another hearing or business meeting where we talk about our findings and our recommendations in terms of how we protect the country going forward.
But I think you can also expect that our report won't be a traditional report in the sense that it won't be just a report on paper. It will be, a report again, know sort of living report online as well, in which you'll have excerpts of testimony. you have transcripts that you can peruse.
So, a lot of the information that we weren't able to elicit because we only had so many hearings and we gathered a mountain of evidence. You'll hear either released prior to our report in discrete pieces, or you'll hear as a part of our report.
CAMEROTA: So, Congressman, was this the last hearing?
SCHIFF: I don't know for sure. I, you know, hope that we will do a public hearing of some kind to go over, OK, these are the findings that we've made. These are our recommendations. You know, we are going to be discussing making criminal referrals and reaching a decision on that. And I don't know whether we'll make, the presentation of those, decisions, in a public setting or not. Those are things that we'll have to decide as a committee.
COATES: Let me just ask you one final question on this issue. Because we have been playing some of exclusive footage here today on CNN that captured some of the behind the scenes, what was going on in the capitol. When the people were trying to enter, were breaking in, were committing the awful crimes and things they were doing.
I wonder what you make of, and we played part of what you saw today in the hearing you played. What was your reaction to seeing that vantage point? You obviously had your own as being somebody who was there on the scene, but what was it like for you to see the bipartisan leadership and excluding because he was not involved, the commander in chief.
SCHIFF: Well, this, this is what was so striking to me, when you had, for example, that scene where the speaker is learning that the session has been interrupted, that members are getting out their gas masks and she is incredulous about what's happening. And she says something to the effect of, can you believe this?
And there they are. You know, they're trying to summon resources to help rescue those of us that are in the capitol. They're calling the Virginia governor. They're contacting -- contacting the Maryland governor about the, those state guards and, and those guards coming in.
[22:39:58]
They're talking to the head of the police in the Washington, D.C. and the mayor. And they're doing everything they can both the Democratic leadership, Republican leadership, all while Donald Trump is sitting in the White House dining room, watching it unfold on TV doing nothing, doing absolutely nothing.
And you know, that contrast, everyone rushing to try to aid the police who were getting beaten, some would lose their lives. Members endangered. And there's Donald Trump just watching. It won't lift a finger. Yes, no, that -- that's something I'll never forget.
CAMEROTA: Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you for your time tonight. We really appreciate it.
COATES: Thank you.
SCHIFF: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: So, does the Secret Service need to clean house? We're going to speak with the experts who know this, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:01]
CAMEROTA: The select committee revealing today in stark detail how the Secret Service received plenty of warnings prior to January 6th about threats of violence at the capitol that day, including online threats against then Vice President Mike Pence.
Let's bring in Jonathan Wackrow. He's a former Secret Service agent, and John Miller is our CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst.
Gentlemen, great to have you here.
I don't understand, Jonathan, if they had credible threats against members of Congress and the sitting vice president, what should they have done before January 6th?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the Secret Service manages every single day in a threat environment, right? So, every single day there are threats that are coming in to the White House, to the Secret Service, to field offices and agents around the globe are assessing the means, opportunity, intent for that threat to actually materialize.
CAMEROTA: So those 10 days leading after this, you don't think we're in a different category?
WACKROW: We were, and they were doing things. They were doing things and they assessed that the threats to the -- to that environment on January 6th at the ellipse. Right. So, let's take this in two phases.
CAMEROTA: OK.
WACKROW: First is the event at the ellipse, the presidential event. Then what happened at the U.S. Capitol? They had time to prepare, identify threats, identify vulnerabilities, and then put the right control measures in place for that event.
COATES: And yet, and yet we saw an insurrection and the secret service likely to try to bring the president of the United States into it. That's the good, I think for people hearing it, the disconnect of what went wrong. Because obviously there was a failure.
WACKROW: But actually it's -- it wasn't a failure. Here's why, when you think about this for the Secret Service. When they had to make a decision whether or not to bring the president up to the U.S. capital, they did a threat assessment and realized that the likelihood and consequence was so great that violence would occur, that they couldn't bring the president there.
So, in the first part, they felt that they controlled the environment of the ellipse. He was behind ballistic glass. He was in an armored vehicle. They had magnetometers. They controlled that environment. What they didn't control was what was going on at the capitol. And knowing now that there is this violent crowd outside of the perimeter that was going to shift up. So.
CAMEROTA: John?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I mean it's interesting because usually the Secret Service and, on this day, their primary concern is protecting the president. The threat wasn't really against the president that day. It was against everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Poor vice presidents, they who they were, I guess, they were looking.
COATES: Law enforcement too.
MILLER: So, I mean, the key intel assessment and planning really fell to the Capitol Police and D.C. Metro, primarily the Capitol Police. And, you know, chief Steve Sund of the Capitol Police, you know, looked at the January 3rd intel assessment that said militia groups, white supremacists coming armed. Target is Congress.
And he met with the leadership and said, I think we need the National Guard. And the best -- the best he got was talk to the National Guard and just tell them to be on standby, which means hours away, if they're not mobilized and in place. So that's --
COATES: But talking about the coordination though, I mean, that's my concern. So, the Secret Service has intel in advance of it.
MILLER: But the Secret Service isn't protecting Congress at that time.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: No, that's true. But wouldn't there have been some sort of a law enforcement or maybe even a moral obligation to say, let's coordinate and figure out what the problem is? That's the question.
MILLER: They did. The Secret Service is talking to the capitol. The capitol is talking to the Secret Service, The Secret Service and the capitol are talking to the FBI, everybody is seeing the same intel. The real failure here is one that I think is hard to blame on anybody because all the intel said what the bad guys were going to do. Storm the capitol.
What the intel didn't say, and I don't believe it could have, because I supplied intel as deputy commissioner of intel for the NYPD to the capitol police about what was coming to the capitol along with everybody else. No one could have predicted that the sitting president of the United States of America would stand on a corner just a couple of miles down from the capitol and bring that crowd to a crescendo by saying, essentially, you've got to march down there and take this thing back in some in substance.
COATES: Really important point that you raise.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: And you know, up next, I want you to hear what Nancy Pelosi said about the then president right before the moment you talk about or before that insurrection in just a moment.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: So, CNN has this exclusive never-before-seen footage that shows how congressional leadership was scrambling to save the capitol as rioters were running wild. Here's the moment that Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi was talking to then acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen about the risk to human life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: The concern we have about personal harm, --
SCHUMER: Safety.
PELOSI: Personal safety is, it just transcends everything. But the fact is, on any given day, they're breaking the law in many different ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I mean, that's a part when you think about how this is going to have lasting consequences, that was kind of the meat of the matter for so many people watching it in real time. The idea of what's the DOJ going to do about this? This question lingered.
But a moment I really appreciated in terms of being able to see the true feelings in that moment, not that I agree with any type of violence, but the idea here, when you heard from Speaker Pelosi in this never-before-seen footage, where we see her talking about in this very raw state of emotions, what she planned to if the then president went to the capitol. I mean, you got to see this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRI MCCULLOUGH, CHIEF OF STAFF, SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: The Secret Service said they have dissuaded him from coming to Capitol Hill. They told him they don't have the resources to protect him here. So, at the moment he is not coming. But that could change.
UNKNOWN: Change.
PELOSI: I'm going to punch him out.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCULLOUGH: I would pay --
PELOSI: Waiting for this, for trespassing on the capitol grounds. I going to punch him out and I'm going to go to jail and I'm going to be happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now why I thought that moment was so poignant is not because that I supports just her statement. But the idea the violence --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: No, not supporting violence. Yes.
COATES: No, but it was the idea of, so often that's why documents are so important. It was the raw emotion of what you felt, the camera was there, what was really going on. And that's what me as a member of the electorate, as a viewer, wanted to know. What were you thinking?
[22:55:02]
We know what we were thinking in the moment and watching in horror, it was unbelievable to see that rawness.
CAMEROTA: I think that this documentary footage is so valuable on so many levels historically.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: As well as setting the records straight, because you may remember --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- there were all sorts of right-wing hosts who tried to pivot away from Donald Trump's complete abdication --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- of any sort of responsibility to, well, what was Nancy Pelosi doing that day? Where was she? Let me just remind everybody of the chorus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK LEVIN, FOX NEWS HOST: What did you do on January 6th? Pelosi? Did you do anything?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Laughable now. Now that you watch this footage, it's laughable what she was doing for those hours and what all the, you know, we've seen all the various leaders around her of Congress trying to get back in there, trying to certify the vote. But I'm so glad that this exists --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- to tell the radio hosts of the world, what was she doing every minute she was fighting --
COATES: She was fighting --
CAMEROTA: -- against that mob somehow.
COATES: She was fighting. It's unbelievable.
CAMEROTA: All right. Tell us what you think, please. You can tweet us at Alisyn Camerota and the Laura Coates. Here's what one viewer is telling us. This was heartbreaking, these videos. I think of President John Kennedy's quote, "the ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security for all."
COATES: Much more ahead. Who exactly was the committee speaking to today is a big question. And did they make their argument effectively? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
