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CNN Tonight
Governor Ron DeSantis Looking Ahead Of 2024; Voter Suppression Reported In Arizona; Men In Uniform Seen Near Arizona Dropbox Area; DOJ Will Go After People Behind Robocalls And Voter Suppression; NASA Will Dig Through UFO Mystery Sightings. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 24, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Jake, fascinating conversation with Bob Woodward. Isn't it fascinating how Donald Trump keeps agreeing to be interviewed by Bob Woodward, but then is often annoyed at having been interviewed by Bob Woodward?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Well, he did interviews with Maggie Haberman too, for her book and then goes on Twitter or whatever. It's Truth Social, sorry. And badmouths her. I mean, I think he, the truth of the matter is he can't quit us. He just can't, he can't quit us journalists. He just, he, as much as he wants to own like a kind of, as much, as much as he wants to stay in his comfort zone and only talk to people on the other channel who don't really challenge him all that much, he really wants to be accepted by people at the New York Times and elsewhere.
CAMEROTA: And CNN.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Yes. Well, I mean, I found it interesting though when you thought about it. I mean, the idea that him releasing all these tapes and the motivation that he spoke to you about for the reasons why doing so. In a way, I wonder if he will be questioned in terms of trying to put the thumb on the scale for whatever reason.
I mean, there's often the criticism towards journalists that suggest that, you know, the types of stories you publish or the ones you want to put forth somehow lead people to question. What your role is or why you're trying to make it known. I think it was perfectly wonderful that he was able to express a lot of the things and bring the tapes out there. But I do wonder what the backlash will be given the motivation he spoke about.
TAPPER: Well, I mean, he just said that he was listening to these tapes. It's not really even about January 6th most of our conversation this evening, as you know, is about foreign policy and about how Trump dealt with COVID or didn't deal with COVID.
And he just said he was just listening to the tapes with his assistant and with his wife, Elsa. And he just was stunned that it just -- it's different than just reading it on the page. When he -- when he says, is this the national security challenge of your lifetime? Is this the leadership challenge of your life? And if you on the page, it just says, Trump says no.
But when you hear the tape, and he's like, no. And it's just like, it's just, it's different. And I -- and so that's why he's taking this extraordinary step also because he obviously thinks Donald Trump is a threat to democracy and security, national security.
COATES: Hey, listen, I know as a prosecutor, you want things to leap off the page and have that transcript come to life, but it's not without sometimes consequence of how people question what you do. So, it's fascinating.
CAMEROTA: All right, Jake Tapper.
TAPPER: No.
COATES: No.
CAMEROTA: You can say no, Jake, but we can't quit you either.
TAPPER: No.
CAMEROTA: Thank you. Yes.
TAPPER: Goodbye, guys. Have a great show.
CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.
TAPPER: Talk to you later.
CAMEROTA: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota.
COATES: And I'm Laura Coates. And this is CNN TONIGHT.
And we've got new sound from the big governor's debate happening right now tonight in Florida between Ron DeSantis and Charlie Crist. And by the way, tomorrow it's going to be John Fetterman up against Dr. Mehmet Oz in Pennsylvania's Senate debate.
But the question we really are wondering is, to what extent these debates really are persuading people, do they still matter to you out there? Or are they somehow a victim of our already polarized politics?
CAMEROTA: Right? Or are they just political theater.
COATES: Right?
CAMEROTA: Is that what they're good for now?
COATES: Self-fulfilling prophecy. Who knows? We'll ask.
CAMEROTA: Yes. All right. Meanwhile, what are armed men in tactical gear doing at ballot drop boxes in Arizona? Take a look at this. Would this intimidate you as you drove up to drop off your ballot? If you saw guys dressed in masks and tactical gear. Is this even legal?
Tonight, we're going to talk to a lawyer who just filed a suit to stop this.
COATES: And you know what they say, the truth is out there somewhere. Not in politics maybe, but when we'll get there a little bit closer. The truth about F -- about UFOs, everyone, and of course, I know you and I talked about this, you are very interested in this. I feel like you maybe think a whole area with 57, 51. What's it called again in Utah?
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: I don't know, but I believe it.
COATES: She believes it.
CAMEROTA: I know that much because what is that? What is that right there? What is that? OK. And Navy pilots and all sorts of pilots have seen this. Credible people. There's no explanation. And now today, NASA is doing something about it. We'll tell you who they're putting together their best minds to actually get to the bottom of what those things are.
COATES: This was our whole day today already actually. And Alisyn and I are going back and forth about, what is that? What is that right there? And I'm like, I don't know. But anyway, let's go -- go and talk about tonight.
CAMEROTA: We'll find out tonight.
COATES: We're going to find out. We're going to find out the truth tonight.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: Stay tune. Kick it off with some looming midterms ahead of us. And here with us tonight and talk about this and probably a little bit UFOs if he's into it. CNN's John Berman.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: He's into it.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: I drove to Roswell after I graduated college. My trip post-college with one of my roommates was to drive to Roswell.
CAMEROTA: Wow.
BERMAN: New Mexico.
CAMEROTA: I knew it.
COATES: Wow.
BERMAN: To find out the truth.
COATES: We've got full panel tonight.
CAMEROTA: I'm not surprised.
COATES: Wow. I'm going to talk more about that. Also, we got Congressman Charlie Dent. Did you also drive to Roswell with your college friends?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, but I've been to Area 51 in Nevada.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: Right.
CAMEROTA: We have questions.
COATES: A lot of pressure now on Democrat strategist Maria Cardona, do you have a connection somehow? Did you watch The Martian? What -- what's happening?
[22:04:57]
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would love to go to both Roswell and Area 51 and I love anything having to do with UFOs, so, yes, I'm into it.
CAMEROTA: Awesome. We have a lot to talk about.
COATES: The whole show just changed.
CARDONA: There you go.
COATES: Didn't, Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: Yes, it sure did. OK, so John.
BERMAN: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Our debate is still relevant in helping voters choose candidates or are they just political theater at this point?
BERMAN: You know how much I love theater. I think the answer is yes to everything. I think they are political theater, but I think it's political theater that matters some. I mean, I think the new -- I'm going to be highly nuanced tonight on everything from extraterrestrials to debates.
Look, I think we are also polarized now that there are times when people go into watch a debate when they're more set than they might have been in the past. There aren't as many persuadable voters watching a debate. However, I do think on the margins and depending on the race, they can't have consequences.
I know you're going to be talking about Florida. You know, you have Ron DeSantis against Charlie Crist. Maybe it won't turn the tide in that race down there, but Ron DeSantis wants to be doing things, maybe other things a few years from now and maybe something that happened on station night will have some impact on the line.
COATES: It might persuade people, right, for the 2024 that he's alluding to. But in terms of where we are right now, I mean this is one of the first times in recent years at the Florida governor's race has been as much of a lead for the Republican can -- or any candidate, frankly, in this moment in time.
And I wonder given that it seems to be the trajectory that it is. Is this an instance he's auditioning for 2024 or is there still something to lose right now?
DENT: Yes, he's -- he is auditioning for 2024, but in a debate one, you just don't want to make a mistake. If you make a bad mistake, you can stumble. That can hurt you. But as long as you don't make any, any big gaffes or errors, you should be fine. But this is not going to change the trajectory of the race. DeSantis is going to win, but he's -- he's on a stage, he's looking at 2024. This is about for him.
CAMEROTA: OK. So, let's play this moment, Maria, about, he was asked directly on if he would serve a four-year term as governor if he wins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLIE CRIST (D-FL): You're running for governor. Why don't you look in the eyes of the people of state of Florida and say to them, if you're reelected, you will serve a full four-year term as governor. Yes, or no?
(APPLAUSE)
CRIST: Yes or no, Ron. Will you serve a full four-year term if you're reelected governor of Florida? It's not a tough question, it's a fair question. He won't tell you.
UNKNOWN: We did not agree on the candidates asking each other question.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Is it my time?
UNKNOWN: Governor, it's your turn.
DESANTIS: Well, listen, I know that Charlie is interested in talking about 2024 and Joe Biden, but I just want to make things very, very clear. The only worn-out old donkey I'm looking to put out the pasture is Charlie Crist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DENT: A rehearse line.
CARDONA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: So, is that, does that help him or hurt him that he won't answer whether or not he would serve?
CARDONA: I actually think with his base, it probably helps him because everyone who loves Ron DeSantis loves the fact that he is now this national figure they think it probably brings more prestige to Florida. It will give him more power if he does get reelected.
And so, I think this debate tonight probably didn't change the trajectory, but it's also like one of those Rorschach tests, right? You talk to the DeSantis campaign, they think he obliterated Crist. You talked to the Crist campaign they think he obliterated DeSantis.
But it does -- it did needed it to be one where it did change the trajectory for Crist, given where he is in the polls. And while I do think, from what I hear and what I've seen, Crist did do well in the places where I think he really needed to underscore the extreme nature of DeSantis's agenda in terms of abortion, in terms of LGBTQ, in terms of denying history for the African American community.
All of those things were things that Crist did a really good job of underscoring, and maybe it does matter in the margins. I don't think the margins are going to be big enough for it to change anything.
COATES: Well, what I'm, you know, take a step back. If we're out of Florida for a moment, I know there's a lot of focus on select races, but more broadly, are we really saying that we are as an electorate, we are so entrenched and our heels are dug in that we essentially think of these races and the debates that are supposed to give an opportunity to figure out and test what you're talking about that people have already had their minds made up.
And if that's the case, then what's with all the ads. I mean these ads are coming out of the woodwork, right? To make sure they're thinking, hey, hold on. I can maybe get this last person to change their mind.
BERMAN: I've been up late a lot of election nights over the last two, four, and six years that have turned into election weeks. Why? Because some of these races are wicked close, as we like to say in Boston, right?
So, I think even though 96 percent of the people showing up at the polls may be dead set on their vote, there's still this tiniest sliver, as my grandmother would say, sliver of Nova, the tiniest sliver of the voting population out there who is waiting and watching and can be swayed by something.
[22:10:04]
People don't watch Senate and gubernatorial debates the way they watch presidential debates. I mean, the numbers for these debates are not going to be what -- what they are on the national stage. Although --
COATES: But the early voting numbers are rivaling some of our presidential elections --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Yes.
CARDONA: They are. COATES: -- already, and maybe for that reason.
BERMAN: But it seeps --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: That's very important point.
BERMAN: But it seeps into the headlines of the local news. It seeps into the headlines of the papers for few days, and it can be a thing. So, I do think when you're talking about races that can be decided by fewer than 10,000 votes, which you guys know they can be.
CARDONA: Yes. And there are a lot of them today that can be.
DENT: There are still an impactful number of swing voters out there. There aren't as many as there used to be, but there are enough because some of these races are going to come down to the wire, a number of them. Pennsylvania Senate race. There are probably four, three or four House races in Pennsylvania.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
DENT: They're going to be razor thin. And so, these swing voters still matter.
CAMEROTA: Let's talk about that, about what we'll be seeing tomorrow with the Fetterman/Oz debate. What are you looking for?
DENT: Well, this is actually, this debate is going to matter because there's a lot of questions about Fetterman's capacity to serve after the stroke. And he hasn't been particularly transparent about it and his, at least initially, and they understated the problem.
And so, people are going to watch closely. They're going to be using closed captioning for him. So, people want to see if he's up to the task. If he can actually, if he can stand on his own, because he's had mostly very well scripted events. He's been trailing Oz effectively on social media, but he hasn't done a lot of public events. So, this is the first time he's going to be on his own. So, I think it's going to make a difference.
COATES: Well, you wonder, I mean, speaking of it, and that notion is hanging on their own, I mean, just earlier tonight you had the gubernatorial candidate and incumbent Ron DeSantis making last-minute promises along the lines of, what was it? Free baby items. Free --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: It's a chicken in every pot.
COATES: I mean, it's all these things.
CAMEROTA: It is a chicken in every pot in Florida.
(CROSSTALK) COATES: Listen to this, right?
CAMEROTA: Let's listen. Yes, let's play.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESANTIS: What we're going to do for Floridians who commute, we're going to reduce tolls by 50 percent statewide for all commuters in the state of Florida. We are going to make all baby items, diapers, cribs, wipes, you name it tax free permanently in the state of Florida so you can raise kids and get by.
(APPLAUSE)
DESANTIS: You know, we have a five and a four and a two-year-old. Our two oldest are out of diapers. My wife asked me, why didn't you propose that your first year in office? Well, you live and you learn. And we're also going to say that pet food is going to be tax free in the state of Florida.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, Maria, when you looking at me, that's -- that's a last- ditch effort. Everything that was in the Oprah --
CAMEROTA: That gets the pet vote.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: You get a farm, you get a --
CAMEROTA: That gets the doggy and kitty vote right there.
CARDONA: That's a socialist agenda if I ever saw one.
BERMAN: Well.
CARDONA: I mean, again, I don't think that things are going to change the trajectory in that specific race because I don't think that is at the margins that we're talking about where 10,000 votes, 20,000 votes are going to matter.
As great as I think, and from what I've seen and from what I've heard, and I talked to Crist's campaign, as great as I think Crist did.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
CARDONA: And as important as it was for him to really put out there how dangerous, and I think it is true, it's dangerous the kind of agenda that DeSantis is running --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Yes, but he can't made Crist can't make those promises --
DENT: Yes. CAMEROTA: -- and they've got a big applause line.
CARDONA: Exactly. There you go. exactly.
DENT: Well, the states, look, the states are flushed with federal money. That's what this is about. And that's why he can throw out tax cuts willy-nilly. I mean, we're going to reduce tolls. Well, what in my state, that's what pays for a lot of the road construction and repairs.
CAMEROTA: Of course.
DENT: You know, OK, the pet food and the diapers, I don't know, but I -- it's clear to me they've got a lot of federal stimulus money that's unspent, and so they can cut taxes. Right now --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: You know what's jaw dropping about this? They got all this federal money that Republicans did not vote for. And so again, the hypocrisy --
DENT: Well, last, the last tranche.
CARDONA: -- is rampant.
DENT: Yes. The last.
BERMAN: I thought he was done. He kept on going. I thought he was done with the babies, but then he went under the pets.
CAMEROTA: The pets.
BERMAN: I mean, I was waiting for him to go to young pets, like, what happens to puppies in kittens today?
COATES: He's going to be actually paying for your next trip to Roswell. That was -- that was the end of the soundbite with your whole entire college class. Not just the friends.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
BERMAN: We ate fast food the entire way.
CAMEROTA: UFO.
COATES: There you go. That's next.
BERMAN: It's not very expensive.
COATES: That's next.
CAMEROTA: All right, so what do you all think? Do debates still help voters make up their minds? Are there still minds that are left to be changed out there? Let us know that. That and anything else you want to say to Laura and me, tweet us at Alisyn Camerota and the Laura Coates.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: Election Day is two weeks away, but voting is already underway. More than seven million voters across 39 states have already returned their ballots, but there are also reports of voter intimidation. In Arizona, six complaints have already been referred to the DOJ and the Arizona Attorney General's office.
People report being photographed and followed at one ballot drop off place, and two reportedly armed men wearing tactical gear were hanging out near a ballot drop box in Mesa, Arizona, according to the Maricopa County officials. But a lawsuit was just filed trying to stop these tactics.
Plaintiffs alleging that the group has violated the Voting Rights Act and the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1870.
Joining me now is one of the lawyers behind that lawsuit, Democratic voting rights attorney Marc Elias.
Marc, thanks so much for being here. Can you just describe what these guys in tactical gear and masks who are reportedly also have guns? What are they doing at these drop off boxes?
MARC ELIAS, DEMOCRATIC VOTING RIGHTS ATTORNEY: They're intimidating voter. I mean, let's, let's just call it out for what it is. They are not there because they want to observe. They're there because they want to create an environment that makes people afraid to use ballot drop box.
Ballot drop boxes in Arizona are entirely legal. There's nothing suspicious about them and a group of election deniers and big lie advocates have arranged this so that people are afraid to vote.
CAMEROTA: And who are those guys? Do you know who they?
ELIAS: So, we name the organization that that seems to be the umbrella for this effort, and its -- and its leader. We also name a series of John Doe, and Jane Doe defendants because as you say, some of the people who are at these polling locations are masked, are armed, are otherwise acting in a way that it's hard to identify who they are.
[22:20:05]
But if we identify who they are, we will add them as defendants to this lawsuit.
CAMEROTA: So, you've just filed the lawsuit, it would -- I would think that being with a gun at a ballot drop box and in tactical gear and wearing a mask would be illegal. However, the Maricopa County sheriff says that's not the case that people can bear arms. Here's what he said tonight. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL PENZONE, SHERIFF, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: It doesn't meet the threshold for a crime in that presence and of itself does not. OK? This is a predation. The second amendment is as important as the first. So, people have the right to bear arms, and unfortunately the gear that they wear is by their choosing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: So, Marc, what about that? Maybe it's not illegal.
ELIAS: Well, two things. First of all, I think what the sheriff there is talking about is whether it violated the criminal law of Arizona. We're not alleging that it violates the criminal law of Arizona. We're pointing out that it violates the federal laws, the Federal Voting Rights Act, the federal Ku Klux Klan Act that make it, that create a cause of action to prevent people from intimidating people from voting.
So, whether it's a crime under state law, I don't know. I take the sheriff at his word, but it is certainly a violation of federal law.
CAMEROTA: So, we're only two weeks away. I mean, obviously people are already voting. How are you going to stop them as of tomorrow?
ELIAS: So tomorrow we expect we'll be before a judge, my team, and our lawyers in state representing the Alliance for Retired Americans, and Voto Latino will be in court and will hopefully convince a judge to issue what's called the temporary restraining order, which is to prevent this while we sort out who's who and what exactly is going on.
Because the right to vote the Supreme Court has said is fundamental and preserves all other right. And what we have here is just a sad and despicable instance of people trying to prevent people from exercising that right.
CAMEROTA: Have you heard from people who were trying to drop off their ballots and felt scared?
ELIAS: We've had people reach out to us. You know, we have a process for vetting them, you know? So, I don't want to go too far beyond what's in the complaint, but I think the complaint lays out a pretty compelling argument that there have been people who have come forward who have said that they were tailed, who have said that they were questioned, who said that they were intimidated.
And that's all it takes to meet the federal statutes that we cite.
CAMEROTA: One more thing, Marc. I know that there were a couple of posts on Donald Trump's social media company that are connected. How so?
ELIAS: So, not surprising since Donald Trump is the original election denier that his company Truth Social is a place where these election deniers and big lie advocates and vote suppressors share messages. You know, the way you and I might on Twitter, they do on Truth Social.
And so, we attach screenshots of what they're saying on that web site about how they're encouraging and organizing these efforts.
CAMEROTA: OK, Marc Elias, let us know what happens. We'll be obviously following your lawsuit as well as the early voting in Arizona. Thanks so much for your time.
ELIAS: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: So that was, informative.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: That it actually is not necessarily against state law, but he's suing in federal law.
COATES: I mean, I used to, as a part of the Voting Rights section civil rights Division would actually monitor elections for these very reasons. We're trying to see whether or not somebody was actually trying to intimidate voters.
Because you could imagine if you were to followed that thread, if somebody is outside and they're copying down your license plate. If they're standing out in some way armed, if they're trying to say anything to you, if they're doing something that makes you feel less willing to exercise your right to vote, you've got an intimidation aspect.
And of course, the way to do it, it's all the devil in details. But he's right. I mean, at the state level might be very different from what is proven for the Voting Rights Act of 1965. And it's not the first time you've ever seen this. When you have it in different election cycles, people outside the polls. It was part of the frustration in 2020 about just how close even official observers could go to the voters.
And so, I think this sends a very big message as to what's going to happen next. But we'll see.
CAMEROTA: Yes. We should also mention that the group that he mentions in his lawsuit is called Clean Elections USA. That's, I think who he believes is behind this.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: We are reaching out. CNN is reaching out to them and we've not heard back yet, but we'll update you as soon as we do.
COATES: Well, they'll certainly answer if they are in the part of the complaint. Look, alleged voter intimidation in Arizona is one thing, but as they say, but wait, there's more.
[22:24:58]
Now there are mysterious robocalls and faked campaign ads just two weeks before the midterm elections. And Alisyn, forget the gloves coming off. The dirty tricks are coming out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Attorney General Merrick Garland now vowing the DOJ will not permit voters to be intimidated before the midterms. But frankly, voter intimidation is not the only concern as candidates were vying for a win.
We're seeing plenty of, well, let's call a misdirects and outright tricks trying to sway voters. The question is, how effective are they going to be?
[22:29:59]
We're back now with John Berman, Charlie Dent, and Maria Cardona.
You know, before we even think about this and the dirty tricks, this, the intimidation could be part of that as well. The idea of trying to voters to question whether it's worth it to vote, right? That's at the core.
CARDONA: Absolutely. And you heard Marc saying, and I'm so glad he's doing this because there's no one better at what he's doing in terms of protecting everyone's right to vote and their voice to be heard that. Voto Latino is joining him in these lawsuits because it's Arizona.
A lot of what we're seeing is that these are happening in places where there could be voters that have mixed household, mixed status households, meaning there could be undocumented people living in that house. That is absolutely a definitive and outright intimidation tactic to keep Latino voters from voting. Because they know that that's going to be something that it's going to really raise the fear of someone who's going to vote who might have people in their household who aren't here with papers.
COATES: There's the -- there's the fear though, right? And then there's the robocalls.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean there's -- there are actual dirty tricks and this.
COATES: Right.
CAMEROTA: And there is a scarless robocall --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- happening in Georgia. That is someone pretending to support Stacey Abrams.
CARDONA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: So, let's listen to this.
CARDONA: This is awful. (BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNKNOWN: This is Jill. And my pronouns are she, her. I'm sure you'll agree with me that people that identify as women are under attack not just in Georgia, but throughout our country. Georgia is lucky to have Stacey Abrams and Sanford Bishop fighting for our abortion rights. While some elected officials are trying to limit abortion rights to six months or even five months after conception, we are so lucky to have Stacey Abrams and Sanford Bishop fighting to protect our right to have an abortion up until the date of birth.
(END VOICE CLIP)
CAMEROTA: I mean, just, that's just so --
CARDONA: Well, sick. Yes.
COATES: Some very (Inaudible), some very overt, right?
CAMEROTA: Yes. Made it to 43,000 phones.
DENT: Well, I've been around for a few elections and this goes on in every election where these nasty robocall go out in the 11th hour. It's not the 11th hour yet, I guess, but they make these calls and you know, nobody knows who really pays for them or who's sponsoring them, but it's a dirty trick. But this is nothing new.
BERMAN: And normally they go out so late.
DENT: Yes.
BERMAN: That when you do catch or you figure out who is doing it, who are funding it. At that point, the election is already done.
DENT: We used to call them suppression calls.
BERMAN: Well, that's where across the line.
COATES: Suppression calls.
BERMAN: Suppression calls is when it becomes illegal. I mean, the goal may be to suppress.
DENT: Yes, the goal is to suppress.
CARDONA: Right. I mean, there have been calls telling people the wrong dates. The wrong places to go.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
CARDONA: That's definitely a suppression call, but this is as old the southern strategy. And frankly, Republicans have engaged in this, sorry, Charlie, more than Democrats have, and to me it is an indication that Republicans are afraid to let more people vote.
They're the ones who are focused on keeping these laws on the books, that keep people from voting, that make it more difficult for people to vote, especially women, people of color, LGBTQ. And to me, that just states that this is a party that is afraid that the more people the vote, the less they will win.
COATES: But I didn't hear, I mean on that call you just played, I didn't hear that as the idea of trying to turn people away. I heard that as more of a call to say with the use of pronouns trying to have this signal that, look, remember the America that we're talking about?
CARDONA: Totally.
COATES: If you don't remember anymore trying to appeal to some sort of a nostalgia ala make America great when it was, or again.
CARDONA: It was anti-woke.
COATES: It was -- it was an anti-woke discussion.
CARDONA: Totally.
COATES: And so, I think they were trying to galvanize people to turn out and they kept saying repetition, you know? Mm-hmm. Stacey Abrams's name, her, you know, Bishop's name. That was intentional, not suppression.
CARDONA: Absolutely.
BERMAN: This is the dark arts of campaigns.
CARDONA: Yes.
BERMAN: And what you both know is, is not only does this, but there are people who make their living --
CARDONA: Clearly.
BERMAN: -- on making these ads.
DENT: And those calls are cheap. Those are the poor man's nuclear weapon. I've always said in a
campaign, if your campaign has had much money doesn't cost a lot to do, a robocall can do anything. By the way, Republicans don't have a monopoly on these types of crimes.
CAMEROTA: Right, I understand. But then there's also ads --
(CROSSTALK)
DENT: I could tell you. They just used to get them against me.
CARDONA: They just do it more.
CAMEROTA: You do know where they come from. They're actual TV ads, and some of them this year are linking Democrats to defund the police. Democrats who have never said --
CARDONA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- defund the police. Democrats who have voted to give more money to local and state place. And so here isn't that false advertising, aren't there laws about truth in advertising? Why is that allowed? Why is that legal if you're saying an outright lie on TV?
DENT: Well, look, both sides, both sides will try to link members to the most extreme elements of their party. It happens all the time. They're linking -- I agree with you. Most Democrats don't want to defund the police, but there's a loud group of them who do. And just as there are Republicans. There are, well, there are, you know, come down to Philadelphia.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Not the one -- but not the ones that are being focused on this ad.
DENT: No, I would agree. I would agree with that. But you go to, look, it happens. It -- it's just a fact of life.
[22:35:02]
CAMEROTA: Yes, I know, but you're just accepting the dirty tricks or a fact of life. I mean, there are laws against stuff like this. You're supposed to go on the airways and fly.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Well, and this one, this one is especially egregious, because actually, Democrats voted to give billions of dollars to law enforcement resources to hire police. It wasn't Republicans.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: (Inaudible) don't have to air ads that are false.
DENT: But --
BERMAN: That are false.
DENT: But Republicans.
CARDONA: Yes.
BERMAN: So, there is a responsibility there to make sure that.
CARDONA: There is.
BERMAN: Yes. That there is a responsibility to make sure that there are not lies within this. We'd have, I'd have to see the exact ads here, the exact language.
CAMEROTA: Maybe I have.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: But by the way, who is going --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Didn't CNN fact check them.
COATES: Wait, here's the thing though. I mean, litigation, I mean, I know the World Series is coming, but litigation is actually America's favorite pastime. But you have the deadline of the elections.
BERMAN: Yes.
COATES: So, who's going to sue to follow this up? But it's not just Republicans against Democrats who are doing this. Even within the party of Democrats you have some ads that are deceptive, disingenuous, where you're trying to pit the two against each other in an attempt to do ticket splitting.
Like in Pennsylvania I was telling you about, there was this ad that pitted Fetterman against Shapiro. They're both Democrats along the lines of crime.
DENT: Yes.
COATES: Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FETTERMAN (D), PENNSYLVANIA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm actually a Democrat. I'm running on my record on crime.
UNKNOWN: John Fetterman's record on crime is crazy.
UNKNOWN: He's not like most Democrats.
UNKNOWN: Dozens of times he was the only vote.
UNKNOWN: Departing criminals.
UNKNOWN: Two hundred twenty-five times Josh Shapiro voted against the criminals.
UNKNOWN: but Fetterman voted to release them. That's nuts.
UNKNOWN: Fetterman is way more radical than Shapiro.
UNKNOWN: What's wrong with this guy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: See, you know, you raised that that point. I mean, and --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: OK, so that was American Crossroads, a conservative super PAC. But isn't that --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: That's not Democrats?
DENT: No.
CARDONA: So, you can't say that's pitting Democrats are pitting Democrats against Democrats.
CAMEROTA: But there is --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: That's a conservative group.
CAMEROTA: That's Josh Shapiro.
DENT: Well, what they're --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: You are -- you are correct --
CARDONA: Yes.
COATES: -- that it is not necessarily the Democrats who are paying for it.
CARDONA: Right.
COATES: But my point is it's not just an attempt to try to pit a Republican against a Democrat.
CARDONA: Right.
COATES: It's also about the notion that, look, in some places they want to have ticket splitting.
BERMAN: Yes.
COATES: And they want to be able to say, all right. I can't go as far as that, but I'll take Mehmet Oz maybe instead of Fetterman. That's --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: But do you know why they're doing this? Because they know that Josh Shapiro is going to win. And so that's -- and so these Republicans were saying, OK, well, you know, we have a crazy guy running against Josh Shapiro. He's not going to win, so let's try to focus on Fetterman.
CAMEROTA: Charlie, you know a thing or two about this.
DENT: They're going after Shapiro/Oz voters is what they're doing. I happen to be one of them. CARDONA: Right?
BERMAN: They're trying to be.
DENT: I happen to be one of them.
CAMEROTA: Shapiro/Oz you're going to split your ticket.
CARDONA: Right.
DENT: Absolutely. Because, well, that ad was accurate. John Fetterman has voted on the board of pardons to let some really bad actors out of prison. One guy who just, you know, he murdered somebody, he -- stabbing a 26 times with a garden shear. You know, Josh Shapiro has not voted the same way as a --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Why did Oz, I mean, sorry. Why did Fetterman vote to let him out?
DENT: Well, that's a good question because many people have tied not Fetterman, not only to this prison reform movement, or he wants to depopulate the prisons like the D.A. in Philadelphia, Larry Krasner, who is the subject of impeachment in Harrisburg right now. Because he's really failed in his role as a top public safety officer in the city.
COATES: I hone in when you say that's a good question, and the reason I recoil a little bit from that is because, it's seed planting.
CARDONA: Yes.
COATES: And then it leaves voters to say, that's a good question. But rather than have the onus to find out, they say, I think I'm going to take it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: That's just out there. It's just out there. That's right.
COATES: And that -- and that's part of the, like you talk about the idea of lawsuits and who's convincing about it. You know, I think a lot of these ads are banking on people not wanting to follow the threat or not doing the research.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: It happens all the time.
CARDONA: Exactly.
CAMEROTA: People don't have -- who don't want to do homework on --
COATES: No.
CAMEROTA: -- doing all these research.
COATES: Which is sad.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: That's why some of these that really worked.
CAMEROTA: But we'll find out.
BERMAN: Yes. But this is why, you know, campaigns, if Democrats want to push back on this, they've got to get on the air. Fetterman has got to get people on the air pushing back on this specific thing.
CARDONA: That's right.
BERMAN: If they want to get that message out, that's how it's done.
CARDONA: That's right.
COATES: So, debates matter. We answered our question. Tomorrow is a debate, Alisyn.
(CROSSTALK)
DENT: Well, let's talk about it tomorrow night.
COATES: Let's talk about tomorrow. We answered the question.
CARDONA: I'm sure this will come up tomorrow.
DENT: The guardian sheriff (Ph)
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: John Fetterman will guest when we will have an answer. All right. Everyone, stay with us if you would. OK. There is now an official NASA UFO investigation team. Will they find out what that is? That's what we want to know. What is that thing right there?
COATES: Alisyn is very invested.
CAMEROTA: Yes. The truth is out there.
[22:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: NASA finally announcing a team of 16 scientists and experts to dive into the recent mysterious UFOs. The panel will include retired NASA astronauts, Scott Kelly, and experts in astrobiology oceanography and data science. A full report with the team's findings is expected to be released in mid-2023. What are we waiting for?
Back with us now, John Berman, Charlie Dent, and Maria Cardona.
Guys, can I just remind you, because I want to show you, these were navy pilots, not me, at home with a telescope. These were navy pilots.
COATES: Wait, we don't believe you now.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: I'm going to show you. I'm going to prove it to you right now. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Six. One thing UNKNOWN: a moment.
UNKNOWN: Whoa! Got it.
UNKNOWN: Roger. There's trouble shooting to (Inaudible).
UNKNOWN: What the (muted) is that thing? Did you boxed a moving target?
UNKNOWN: No, I took an auto-track.
UNKNOWN: OK. My gosh, dude. Wow. What is that, man?
UNKNOWN: Look at it fly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK. Let me tell you --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Your voice has -- your voice is deeper just now.
CAMEROTA: There was another one that defied all of the rules of aerodynamics. It can go straight up at the speed of, you know, light or sound or something. It darts around. It was freaking them out. John, what is that sound?
BERMAN: I mean, you never hear pilots swear like that. That never, that never happens. I don't know what it was. I don't want to be a skeptic here because again, I drove to Roswell. I want to believe in this. You're making a bad face at me.
CARDONA: You do want to believe.
[22:45:01]
BERMAN: I don't know what it was. You want to -- you may want to come back.
CAMEROTA: Well, why don't you just say it's an alien.
BERMAN: Because --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Why won't you say that?
BERMAN: Neil deGrasse Tyson --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Because he wants to be a credible journalist still.
BERMAN: Neil deGrasse Tyson, we all respect, right?
CARDONA: Yes.
BERMAN: You know, he points out that like everyone on Earth has got at least one of these things now. Some of us have two of them. And given that we all have these things and take really good pictures with them.
CARDONA: Yes.
BERMAN: How come all the pictures that we pour over and try to, you know, pull some kind of kernel shred of evidence that it's -- that it's a UFO are like this.
CAMEROTA: Why? That looks just like a UFO.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: I don't what it is.
CARDONA: It is too far out in the atmosphere and the only people that can see them are these navy pilots?
BERMAN: Who swear, who swear like sailors ironically. I don't --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Is that a burner phone, John Berman? That's my real question. Why do you have two phones on the desk right now?
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Charlie, Charlie, you were in Congress. Do you know some classified information about what that is?
DENT: I do not.
CARDONA: Yes, tell us, Charlie.
DENT: I remember being invited to a briefing or two on this subject, which I blew off.
CAMEROTA: Why? Why would you blow that off?
DENT: Because I had more important things to do.
COATES: Wow. DENT: But seriously, but you know, look, hey, the Navy couldn't figure this one out. So glad we have a space force now. Put a few of the cadets on this one, see if they can figure it out. But I'm glad they're going to do some research on this because apparently, they can't explain it.
COATES: Yes.
DENT: You talk about things that are eerily dynamically unsound. Well, I put bumblebees and helicopters in that category, they fly anyway.
CAMEROTA: Right. Also, inexplicable. Also, inexplicable. Agreed.
COATES: Well, look, I mean, we, all kind of joke around and I give you a hard time about this, but on all honesty, I'm actually very intrigued. I do believe there must be something.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: How could you not be?
COATES: I'm very intrigued by it. But here's the thing. I think. There's something to the idea that every time someone hears about it, there is some glazing over effect. And I don't know why. Is it because for, are we afraid as a civilization that it might be true? Or do we look at this? It's been so -- it's been so Hollywood --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: -- in these issues that we think, well, that can't possibly happen. What, what is it?
CARDONA: I think -- I think it's a mix of both of those and I think that there is part of us and maybe a lot of people that actually do want to believe it, but like John doesn't be the one to jump in to say, yes, this is actually an alien because we don't know enough about it.
BERMAN: I've been burned so many times.
CARDONA: Yes. Well, there you go. Exactly. But I also read that, so many times there have been things like this, maybe not like those kinds of pictures, but whether it's like a blue light that no one can explain, and then finally it comes down to it is some scientific phenomena of light and sound and whatever else is out there in the atmosphere. And that might be what this ends up being.
CAMEROTA: Maybe.
CARDONA: But we don't know.
CAMEROTA: Maybe. But --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Maybe, or maybe not.
CAMEROTA: -- I was really rowed by the Navy pilots who were on 60 Minutes who said that what they both saw separately in separate planes was something that we don't have the technology for. The technology does not exist on Earth for that, whatever they saw to move in the direction that it moved at the speed that it did and pop up in another place.
CARDONA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: And so that was a few years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: And so, maybe --
CAMEROTA: I'm waiting for NASA to now get to the bottom of it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Maybe we also don't have --
COATES: The fact that NASA is legitimizing it though is something that is telling.
CARDONA: It's huge.
COATES: I mean, that NASA is saying --
CAMEROTA: Of course, what is it?
COATES: I mean, all of us are layman, right? Compared to anyone at NASA.
CAMEROTA: I'm a rocket scientist.
COATES: So, I mean, you are rocket in your day job of course in your free time. But the idea that NASA is to is adding some level of gravitas, I think move the needle.
DENT: I think it's actually useful. Look, hey, NASA just -- they just took out that, at asteroid or redirected it.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
DENT: That's pretty interesting.
CARDONA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
DENT: And but -- but look, I'm glad they're going to do the research. I'm glad they're going to study this and let them try to figure out what it was. I'm not going to speculate that it's aliens.
BERMAN: No, I want to believe. No, and I do. I mean, I think we should look into it. We shouldn't close off the possibility, but I do think the standard to be convinced is a little higher that look at that blur.
CARDONA: But John, to your point, and to answer Neil deGrasse Tyson, it could be. You've talked about this, Laura, that we don't even have the technology, that this doesn't contain the technology to photograph them it they, whatever pronouns they might want to be using.
BERMAN: You think it sounded like a robo.
CARDONA: It's just right to show.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: You just introduce an entirely new confusion. You're right.
CARDONA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: What pronouns will they use when they land on earth? Well.
COATES: Wow.
CAMEROTA: Let's say.
COATES: Speaking of what you probably couldn't believe, do you know what it is unbelievable to so many people out there that slavery is on the ballot in five states. It's not extraterrestrials.
CAMEROTA: You're going to explain this to us.
COATES: I'm going to explain why after this.
[22:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: So, voters in five states had the chance to wipe slavery and indentured servitude off the books on election day.
CAMEROTA: And I had no idea that it was still on the books.
COATES: I mean, if you thought, and people would rightly think that slavery was outlawed in this country back in 1865 with the 13th amendment. Let me remind you, there's actually one exception to it.
The text of section one of the amendment reads neither slavery nor involuntary servitude accept as a punishment for crime. Where of the parties shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States or any place jurisdiction. Excuse me.
So, slavery and indentured servitude have been on the books as a potential punishment in more than what, a dozen states, though the penalty hasn't been enforced since the Civil War.
Well, listen now voters, Alisyn, in Alabama.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: In Louisiana, in Vermont, Oregon, and Tennessee, they have a chance now to remove the punishment from their state's Constitutions once and for all. Essentially saying that the 13th amendment will be universal and not include those who have been prisoners as well.
But the way they're doing it is causing a little bit of confusion.
CAMEROTA: OK, so let me just make sure I understand this.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Slavery is still legal if you're a convicted, if you're a convict. So, in prison, in those five states, if you're a convict, I assume of like murder or rape, I mean something obviously where you're doing some hard time.
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Or a felony.
[22:55:02]
CAMEROTA: Just any felony?
COATES: Well, the key is that there's always been an exception to be able to use like a chain gang essential --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: people think about chain gangs or the idea of forcing someone to perform services.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: Without being able to do anything.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: With no pay.
COATES: Without any pay. So, the idea of slavery. And if you're serving, you'll have these different languages there. Let me just show you an example --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: -- of why this on the ballot and what they're saying. So, in Louisiana, for example, here's on the ballot, it says, do you support an amendment to prohibit the use of involuntary servitude, except as it applies to the otherwise lawful administration of criminal justice. Meaning keep a 13th amendment as it is, yes or no? Do you want to have an exception?
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: You can force them to work in, in and of itself.
CAMEROTA: That is confusing. But I'm also conflicted about this, don't we want prisoners, particularly murderers and rapists, don't we want them to have to do hard time? Isn't that a good punishment for convicted murderers? Or, I mean, in other words, we don't want them to get off easy and not have to do hard labor or to be, do we want them to be paid for --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Well, we criticize other countries for having labor camps all the time. The idea of thinking about having somebody who is doing their time being incarcerated? Does it require hard labor? That doesn't have any pay to it? And does it, who does it benefit is the question. So, the voters are now going to have a chance to decide do they want that exception or not.
I mean, it's fascinating, Alisyn, because most people don't realize it's on the ballot. And they don't realize that it's still even something that has to be voted on.
CAMEROTA: Well, thank you for raising that for all of us. I'm sure we'll get comments on that.
Meanwhile, the FBI and local sheriff's offices are concerned about the potential for violence at the polls, all because of misinformation. That coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
