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CNN Tonight
Debate Performances Matters; Abortion Scandal Not Dying For Herschel Walker; Heated Debate Spark Between Panelists; NFL Hires Black Coaches To Clean up Mess; Iranian Protesters Undeterred By Repeated Regime Threats. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 26, 2022 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And the gravitas of his baritone that perhaps if there was something we cannot comprehend that gifted him to us, maybe there's also something we cannot comprehend that that took him from us as well. Goodbye, John. Semper Fi.
Thank you so much for joining me tonight. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Jake Tapper.
Our coverage continues now with Laura Coates and Alisyn Camerota. Hi, guys. I'm not -- I'm not in a jocular mood right now, but I will throw the show to you.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: That was beautiful.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: You can tell what a nice tribute, Jake.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: And what a special experience you had to be, you know, to have a professor that you had such a connection with.
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: That's really nice to hear about.
TAPPER: Thank you.
COATES: Thanks for honoring him. That was sweet.
CAMEROTA: All right, Jake. Have a good night.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota.
COATES: And I'm Laura Coates. This is CNN TONIGHT.
And look, we are what, 13 days away from the midterms and now a second woman. This time Jane Doe is now claiming that Herschel Walker was involved in her abortion. Herschel drove her to the clinic and waited in the parking lot for hours.
CAMEROTA: He also caused the pregnancy, by the way. COATES: Well, that's -- that's part of how the biology works.
CAMEROTA: Right?
COATES: Same allegations. I mean, this is that birds and the bees course tonight as well.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: She says that she felt pressured to actually having the abortion and for Herschel Walker, Alisyn, he says it's all a lie and, but he didn't kill JFK either. And he's saying more tonight. But what will all of this mean to voters.
CAMEROTA: Also tonight, we're going to talk about the fallout from the Fetterman/Oz debate last night. So Fetterman just shared his own thoughts on his performance just a short time ago. So, we'll play that and we'll find out --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- if this hurt him with voters.
COATES: I mean, social media, if that's indication, we'll see. We can't always judge from that.
CAMEROTA: No, we cannot.
COATES: We, we can never judge from that. I say that. Let's get right to it. Right now, we've got CNN political commentator, Ana Navarro, also Jim Messina, former Obama campaign manager and CNN political commentator Scott Jennings all here.
Glad to see you all tonight. You don't have any opinions though? None of you collectively, right?
JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: No. No.
COATES: So, we're just going to, all right, let's go to commercial. What do you think? It's all over, right?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Bunch of shrinking violets got around the table, too.
CAMEROTA: That's right.
COATES: I'll start with you. The shrinking is of the violets for a second. Because I'm so glad to see you here. And I wonder what you made of all of it last night. I mean, I saw your tweet and you talked about the humility, about the courage, about the idea of allowing people to show you through the process of healing. Take us through the political realm now. What does that translate to for voters?
NAVARRO: I think it's hard though to separate the political realm for the -- from the human realm. Eight hundred thousand, almost 800,000 Americans a year have a stroke. And I think, you know, I know, I know people I love who've had strokes and one of the most frustrating, difficult, hard, sad things for them to have to do is wrestle with this idea that, you know, that initially as they're healing, if they can -- they heal, is that their words don't come out right and that what they're thinking doesn't, they can't articulate.
And so, I do, you know, and I know how hard it's been for people I know, and I can only imagine what it's like to do it in public, to do it for the entire nation, to comment on. And so, I do think that it takes a level of humility, of commitment, of honesty, and I think it's the right thing to do because voters deserve to have candidates debate.
I also think of people -- of other candidates who for much lesser reasons have decided not to debate. He could have refused to debate, right? Like Katie Hobbs in Arizona, who I think is handing the governorship to Kari Lake.
COATES: For not wanting to debate?
NAVARRO: For not wanting to debate.
COATES: Really?
NAVARRO: Right. For using the excuse that she's an election denier.
COATES: Because, Ana, on that point though.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Fetterman could have said, I'm not going to debate.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: And on that point, some have said they should take an out. He should just said, never mind because it wouldn't have been worth it. The calculus was --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: It might have hurt him.
COATES: Yes. You don't agree with that assessment.
NAVARRO: I think you -- I think candidates owe voters transparency and owe voters the respect of debating issues and for voters to see what's out there. Right now, whatever decision the voters of Pennsylvania make, they make with an informed consciousness of what John Fetterman is going through.
CAMEROTA: Well --
NAVARRO: And who Mehmet Oz is.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, here's how he just explained it. So, John Fetterman just explained what the experience was like for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FETTERMAN (D), PENNSYLVANIA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: To be honest with you, doing that debate wasn't exactly easy. You know.
Noon wasn't going to be easy after, you know, having a stroke after five -- five months. In fact --
UNKNOWN: We still love you.
(CROWD CHEERING)
FETTERMAN: In fact, in fact, I don't think that's ever been done before an American political history before, actually. I may not get every -- every word the right way, but I will always do the right thing in Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Jim, do you think he hurt himself last night by doing that debate?
[22:04:59]
MESSINA: Look, I think he lost the battle, but he may have won the war because of what I said on abortion. I probably disagree with you. I don't think he should have done that debate. I wouldn't have counseled that. I think it was a difficult night for him and now he's on the defensive.
That said, his campaign is masterful. They switched to exactly the topic they switched to, which was Oz's bizarre comments that local elected officials should decide abortion rights in Pennsylvania. That is going to be a huge problem for Oz in the -- in the swing places where women voters that you track all the time are trying to make a decision on this election.
And I think if they stick to that message, Oz did himself real damage last night. That said, we're all talking tonight about Fetterman's performance and had he not done the debate, we wouldn't be doing that.
COATES: But I, you know, on the point, I want to dig into the idea of Dr. Oz's statements. Because he did try to make a distinction between he wouldn't, first of all commit as to whether or not he would support Senator Lindsey Graham's 15-week ban if he were elected. He punted on that.
He also had a moment when he talked about the federal government should not be involved, but state and local officials, women and their doctors. And that was the line I think that would draw out the concern of maybe suburban moms, in particular, and others -- and other factors.
But I am really curious about this idea of, do you really not think had, had he not debated, would that have provided an opportunity for them to say, hold on, you've given two medical letters. You've told us you're fine. Now you're not debating. Something doesn't smell right. Would that have invited that level of skepticism?
MESSINA: You look at him tonight in the clip you just showed, he looked good.
COATES: Yes.
MESSINA: He -- that's -- that's what we should be doing. He should be out there doing that in a setting he can control on his own message. I mean, I just think that was a difficult time. I think the format was bad for him. Fifteen second answers. He didn't have time to kind of get his stuff together. I think the entire situation was very difficult for this candidate. And I think it was avoidable.
That said, I know why he did it. We all do. Right? He had to get it off the table. He's taken the advice. I understand the advice. I might have done different advice, but I really think long term Oz came out of this debate more wounded.
CAMEROTA: Scott, we heard your thoughts last night that you do think that it hurt Fetterman. Do you have any 24 hours, anything different?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree. I wouldn't have counseled him to go out there either. I mean, he has difficulty having conversations with other people, and that's what a debate is. And his campaign knew his limitations before they sent him out there, and they did it anyway.
So, I think Jim is right. I mean, it's easier for him to give speeches when he's not having to interact with people, moderators, or other candidates.
On the abortion question, I fail to see the controversy here. Dr. Oz clearly said he would not support any federal regulations. He then said it should be left up to the states, which is a very standard issue, Republican position.
The Democratic position, I guess based on what I'm hearing on the attacks today is there should be no regulations. No limits whatsoever, which is, by the way, what Fetterman's position is. He couldn't articulate one last night and he hasn't articulated one for the campaign. I continue to believe the Democratic position on this is out of the mainstream. People are missing this.
And by the way, if this is the issue you're closing on, the issue that's fallen to sixth or seventh on the list of most important issues, I question whether that's the right strategy.
CAMEROTA: Well, Roe versus Wade was the mainstream, and the majority of Americans supported it, as I'm sure you know. Here's what he said. I don't want the federal government involved with that at all. I want women, doctors, local political leaders, letting the democracy that's always allowed our nation to thrive, to put the best ideas forward so states can decide for themselves.
So, I think it was the wedging in of local political leaders with women and doctors. COATES: Well, I see the --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Who runs the government?
COATES: Well, hold on. I do wonder in that point you raise and this idea, do you think that people really, I mean, if the -- if the session is -- excuse me, discussion is that the feds should not be involved. The government, right, as a big umbrella term, the government.
Do you think that there is the appreciation for why the federal government should not be involved, but the local government ought to be involved. If the general premises stay out of these private discussions, I don't know how that made the case that, this is different, this is better. Because it's not even a standardized thing. What did you see?
NAVARRO: Listen, maybe you don't get it, Scott, because you don't have a womb and ovaries, but I don't know any woman who would say, you know, we really want our state reps and our governor and our state senators to decide what we're going to do with our bodies.
There's something that just is, that just doesn't pass the smell test, I think for most women. I think that you think about counseling with yourself, with your family, with your doctor, with your pastor, with your priest. But the idea of my state senator and my state legislator and my -- and my governor are going to decide what I do with my body, that doesn't -- that doesn't sit well with what's --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Is that -- is that the advice you gave in your storied career as a Republican strategist? Dr. Oz is the pro-life candidate because he's a Republican. The Republican position is this is ought to be left up to the states, which is exactly what he said last night.
The Democratic position, your position is that there shouldn't be any regulations of any kind from any government on abortion.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: I don't think that's (Inaudible), Scott. You keep saying that.
JENNINGS: And I don't think it's out of the mainstream.
CAMEROTA: I just don't think that -- I don't think you're right.
(CROSSTALK)
[22:10:01]
NAVARRO: You don't know what my position on abortion is.
JENNINGS: You just said what it was.
NAVARRO: No. You don't know what my position.
JENNINGS: You don't know what mine is other than to insult me here on television.
NAVARRO: I'm not telling you what -- I'm not telling you what your position is. I'm telling you that most women, that you don't have a womb and that most women don't want to hear that elected political leaders, that their state legislators are going to mandate what they have to do. I don't care what your position is.
CAMEROTA: And listen.
NAVARRO: You're not making the decisions.
CAMEROTA: We can have a conversation obviously without insulting each other. I do think we have to -- it's amazing that we haven't yet touched on Herschel Walker.
COATES: Right.
CAMEROTA: Because we're so --
COATES: That is true.
CAMEROTA: -- exhausted by it, I think. Like what more is there to say? There's another woman who has come forward. It's, I find it not implausible that there would be another woman because he doesn't have a great track record of any of this, and he just continues to say it's a lie.
Jim, do you think that any of this at this point matters or there's just such saturation level with this?
MESSINA: No, I do think it matters because we're sitting here 13 days. People are voting every single day. They're getting their ballots, and it's unbelievable that he's on the defense on this again, and he's lied repeatedly. He lied to his own campaign staff about it. Now, there's another woman.
He needs to close on an economic argument. All of us at this table would advise him to close and try to make that, and instead, he's talking about another issue. He's lying again. Another woman that puts him on the -- on the defense with his own base, right? He's trying to turn out Republicans. He's doing almost 10 points worse than Governor Kemp.
He's got to close with the Republicans and this is not helpful. I do think this is damaging him. Absolutely.
COATES: But is it the Governor Kemp that we compare to in this point? And I think just the larger point, which is interesting. The discussion that you two are having here about --
(CROSSTALK) NAVARRO: Yes. I didn't know telling him he didn't have a womb was an offense.
COATES: Well, I mean, the fact -- do you --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I didn't -- I didn't know that we're all biologists now.
COATES: Well, let me tell you. I mean, I don't want to get into biology of who has a womb who does not at this table. I know I've given birth twice. But I'm going to tell you, when you think about it, you are having discussion and the Canadian (Ph) type discussion about agency and autonomy over a woman's body and abortion policy.
Georgia is having discussion over whether a specific candidate financed an abortion. I wonder if the disconnect in terms of why this is making still a close race for Warnock and Walker, is that people think that maybe the main national discussion is not what's being had in Georgia. Because Is that why Walker is still close?
MESSINA: No Walker is still close because Georgia is still a leaning Republican state and he's got a top of the ticket governor who's winning by, you know, a significant amount. And this is a very, very close state. It's a state the Democrats have only won statewide once in the past 30 years in a presidential level.
So, any Republican had Scott's party nominated anyone with a heartbeat, this thing would be much more difficult. Thankfully for me, they nominate Herschel Walker who's the worst.
NAVARRO: But the reason Walker is so close is because I think, most Republicans have decided that this is a state that can decide who's going to be running the Senate and thus, character matters a lot less and hypocrisy matters a lot less than that.
CAMEROTA: And they've said that. I mean, they've said that.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Who is going to win the majority.
MESSINA: I don't think that's how swing voters think about it though. People in D.C. think about this. But swing voters, you know this. They care about the economy. They care about how the future of their kids. They're not thinking about Herschel Walker controlling the United States Senate.
JENNINGS: Let, let me just, it's October the 26th. We are less than two weeks before an election. Gloria Alred of all --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: So, you're -- so, you doubt it. You actually doubt this, Scott.
JENNINGS: Well, listen.
CAMEROTA: You trust, hold on, just answer this. You trust Herschel Walker.
JENNINGS: Do I trust him?
CAMEROTA: Yes.
JENNINGS: Yes, I trust Herschel Walker.
CAMEROTA: You trust him?
JENNINGS: Do I trust him more than Gloria Alred? Yes, I do.
CAMEROTA: You trust his word that he knows nothing about this. He doesn't even know these women, though. One of them had his child.
JENNINGS: I don't trust things that happened in the last two weeks of an election from Gloria Alred with an anonymous whatever. And by the way, if Democrats are interested in sex stuff from 1992, have I got a story to tell them about what happened in the 1990s?
This is a late Octo -- no Republican or independent conservative leaning voter in Georgia is going to take a two, you know, within two- week anonymous allegations seriously. In fact, I'd say Republicans are going to view it as a pile on and it is not going to hurt Herschel Walker --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: But that's not all there is though, right? There is, I mean, it's the -- it's the cu -- this is the, the point is --
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: That's exactly right.
COATES: -- the latest in a string. Does that have an impact. We'll talk more about this.
CAMEROTA: OK. Let's do that. Hold that thought. Hold that thought, everyone.
COATES: We actually want to know more from you, right?
CAMEROTA: Yes. Tell us what you think about Herschel Walker and John Fetterman and anything else you want to weigh in on. You can tweet us at Alisyn Camerota and the Laura Coates. We'll be right back.
[22:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: John Fetterman admitting tonight to supporters the difficulty he had in the debate against Mehmet Oz. He said it wasn't easy. So, let's bring in Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor who has a unique perspective
on Fetterman's recovery. She's a neuroscientist and the author of "Whole Brain Living" and she herself is also a stroke survivor.
Dr. Taylor, thanks so much for being here.
You really will give us insight from all angles on what this is like. And so, what did you think while you were watching John Fetterman last night?
JILL BOLTE TAYLOR, NEUROANATOMIST: You know, when I watch anybody, I think in terms of cell circuits underlying abilities, I think he, I think we could have done a much better job at setting his brain up for success in that kind of a situation.
CAMEROTA: How?
TAYLOR: Well, I mean, just think about if he's having a problem hearing, and so essentially, he hears sound, it drops, and then he catches onto that meaning, he's reading the meaning. He's got all this stimulation. It's an extremely stressful experience for any brain.
And on top of that, you have an opponent who is kind constantly poking at you, and we don't know if he can actually read what Dr. Oz is communicating to him. And then he has to read all of this, process that information, and he's on a 30 -- a 30-second timetable.
I mean, I just really, I felt so as soon as I heard what the format was, I felt complete sympathy for him.
[22:20:00]
CAMEROTA: But what, what else? I mean, he had -- he had closed captioning, so as you say, he was reading what the moderator's questions were, and I believe he was reading what Mehmet Oz's responses were, though his team has said that there were technical difficulties with the closed captioning.
TAYLOR: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Don't know if that's true or not true, but what could he -- how could he have done a debate with having suffered a stroke so recently?
TAYLOR: You know, I think -- I think we have to reevaluate what actually do we call a debate these days. Because a debate these days is very different from five years ago politics versus 10 years ago politics.
And there is a new, not just anxiety, but level of hostility that comes in. We as human beings are feeling creatures who think information comes in through all of our sensory systems. This is what John Fetterman was up against. Information coming in through all the sensory systems it processes through our emotional systems, and then it moves into our thinking circuitry. So, thinking takes time, and we all think all as normal brains. Some of us think more quickly than others, and a brain that is processing quickly isn't necessarily more accurate or more precise in the answers that it delivers. And I just think that there was a lot of confusion and we could have done a better job in helping John be better.
CAMEROTA: But let me ask you about that, because there's a question about whether or not he was having word finding difficulties because of his auditory processing, or if he's struggling really with cognition, which, you know, would obviously affect the job. And so, what's the answer?
TAYLOR: Right. Well, I think that, I think that you don't ask the question, are you having a problem with this? Are you cognitively competent? I think what you do is you go to situations when he has proven himself to be completely cognitively competent in a situation that really allowed for him to take the extra time that he needed to be able to consider to, and then in order to give a responsible and accurate answers.
And he has done that in recent interviews where it wasn't such a high stress, high pressure experience.
CAMEROTA: Sometimes. I mean, he's also had an experience in an interview where the interviewer said that he -- she felt that he was struggling to respond and to answer. But I want to ask you about your experience and how it informs all of this.
TAYLOR: Let me go back to that if I may.
CAMEROTA: Yes, quickly.
TAYLOR: May I address that?
CAMEROTA: Yes, please.
TAYLOR: I watched that. That was the NBC interview, and I felt that he was delivering information to her, but she -- about his cognition and how he thinks and how accurate he was thinking. But because she didn't understand what she was looking for, she came directly in the question of it instead of observing that he was actually giving her appropriate responses.
So, I don't think -- I don't -- I think it's tough when a public that doesn't really understand what is cognition? How is it processed inside of the brain? What are the most -- the multiple pieces of cognition that work together in order for someone to have a bigger conception so that they actually can understand information and have appropriate output?
CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, I mean, this will shock you, but not all of us reporters are neuroscientists like you when we're doing the -- I know.
TAYLOR: Well, I know that.
CAMEROTA: I know it's shocking, but, doctor, in all seriousness, I do want to ask you this before I let you go.
TAYLOR: Yes.
CAMEROTA: I know you had a more severe stroke than he did, and I know it took you a long time to recover. Is there any telling from your experience how long it would take him to recover and, you know, be back to a 100 percent?
TAYLOR: Well, when I look at what his brain was able to do on an interview on September 14th, he was able to think, he was able to remember far away, far by in the back. He, in past in time, he was able to remember the day before the events that had happened. He was able to project his -- himself into the future.
He was able to -- there were just all these different stages of cognition that he's capable of doing. And I think that, that instead of simply saying, is he able to cognate, let's look at the man and look at what he is doing and focus on the ability, recognizing that the disability is there.
And then how long will it take for him to recover. I can't speak to that. I haven't -- I haven't spoken to the man about this.
CAMEROTA: Yes, that's fair. Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, thank you very much for your expertise and sharing your story with us too.
TAYLOR: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: OK, so she's obviously operating at a different level than we are in terms of what she sees, but it's what voters see. And if they think that he's up to the job after last night.
[22:25:02]
COATES: I can't help but think. I mean, what she described, certainly completely relevant and I don't want to take away anything of it. But she describes a level of patience and political grace that 13 days before a midterm election honestly do. And I can help but think, is this the calculus that would be used for a sitting senator like Chris Van Hollen, like Ray Lujan, who both this year suffered strokes.
One recovered, were both recovering, but one came back right after what, a month after having a stroke into the Senate.
CAMEROTA: I'm not sure.
COATES: Right before the vote for a Supreme Court justice. And so, I wonder if it's a different calculus for voters, the one who is in office versus one who's striving to be. We'll see.
Look, either way as well. Maybe you heard this phrase. This is not your father's GOP. Well, that's what Joe Biden is saying today. But you wonder what'll that message mean come, well, the next 13 days. It's called midterms.
CAMEROTA: I've heard of it. It's happening. [22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: All right. Reminder, it's just 13 days away. Thirteen days away.
CAMEROTA: A lot.
COATES: I feel like the world has reminded us a lot --
CAMEROTA: I agree.
COATES: -- of the midterm elections.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
COATES: We're weeks away, we're days away, we're now 13 days away, but counting the votes across the country, and it could all come down to the answers to some really important questions.
Like, how much will election denialism rear its ugly head with deniers running successfully so far across the country. And what's the future of the Republican Party, especially a state like Florida that was once purple, now getting redder and redder and redder. And where do Latino voters land in all of this?
Back with us now Ana Navarro, Jim Messina, and Scott Jennings.
You know, we look at this, the idea of the coveted demographics and who is -- are the undecided voters, the independent voters, Republicans, Democrats, all across the spectrum. There is a -- an emphasis, in particular, on Latino voters.
In Florida, per se, where they've got a coalition in terms of rural voters and Latino voters in particular, in a state where everyone is watching to see where things are going to go now in 2024? What's your take in terms of what this last 13 day say? I say it again. These last 13 days, what's the focus?
NAVARRO: Well, 13 days is not going to, I don't think make much of a difference with Latino voters or any particular group because that's one of the problems. That you can't just remember a particular group 13 days away or 13 weeks away.
COATES: Good point.
NAVARRO: You've got to remember them the whole four years and that's a constant complaint. Look, with Latino voters, I think there's so many different things going on. First of all, I have to tell you, Republicans in Florida, Republicans nationally have laser focus on Latinos in Miami-Dade County where I live, Latinos in the Rio Grande Valley, and they've done a good job of it.
CAMEROTA: And what are they offering them that that is so appealing to Latino voters there? NAVARRO: Attention. they're offering them free citizenship clinics.
So, you know, if you want to become a citizen, the RNC is actually sponsoring clinics. They're off -- also offering some candidates that actually pay them attention and cater to them.
Listen, Ron DeSantis has a Cuban American lieutenant governor. Right? And goes down to Miami and talks about Cuba and talks about Venezuela and talks about all these things constantly. Yes. He also schlepped a bunch of Venezuelan political asylee applicants to Martha's Vineyard --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: And how did that play with Latinos in Florida?
NAVARRO: Apparently, to my shock, less badly than I would have thought and hoped. It didn't play well in my household. But I can tell you that I think a lot of people seem to be OK with it. And it's, you know, it's the same. I think it's the same concept.
And also, listen, Democrats have done a really bad job in Florida in providing good candidates. The guy they're running for governor against Ron DeSantis is a recycled, has been, who was a Republican an independent.
CAMEROTA: Charlie Crist.
NAVARRO: And a Democrat. And so, how in the world do you want people to get enthused about that? And you know, and I -- and I think Democrats have to look at themselves because I think they pretty much it feels as a Floridian, like Florida, like Democrats have given up on Florida.
And one last thing that I want to say that I think people are picking up on, and we saw it in a last couple of weeks. Last couple of weeks, we saw what happened in L.A. County where there were Latino members of the county, of the county commission talking about the divisions, saying some really racist things --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
NAVARRO: -- against African Americans. And I think there is an unspoken division and competition that Republicans are seizing on and exploiting to make -- to make minority groups pit them against each other and make them compete for the small piece of pie.
COATES: Well, I mean, when you think about the idea of the rejection of the monolith, when you paint such a broad stroke and suggest, people of color want this. Without the nuances you're talking about it similarly can be what the woman voter wants. It can be those issues you're talking about.
CAMEROTA: Yes. But Jim, do you think that Democrats are screwing up with Latinos?
MESSINA: I do, but I think it's different. I want to agree with what you said about this. There are places in America, first of all, there's no Latino vote. We're talking about different states, different demographics, Venezuelans, Costa Ricans, Cubans, all these things.
And then you look at it, there are places like Florida and Texas where the Republican Party has been very smart. Where they've reached out with candidates. They haven't demagogues, they haven't played race cards. They've been very careful.
But then you look at places where they're absolutely on the defense, mostly in the west, in California, in Arizona, in New Mexico, which used to be Republican states, at least New Mexico and Arizona and are now Democratic states because Latino voters are walking away en masse to them.
[22:35:07]
Because the local candidates there have said crazy stuff that you were just talking about. They have crazy sheriffs who run forever in Arizona doing racist stuff that just drove them to the modern-day Democratic Party.
The Democrats are having a struggle internally about, whether or not we're going to be P.C. and say all these great things and call them Latinxs and all this stuff, or we're actually going to talk to the voters about things they really care about, like economy and education and things that every other voter cares about.
CAMEROTA: Maybe Democrats should do that one.
MESSINA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: The latter.
MESSINA: Yes, the latter. That's exactly right.
COATES: We almost get the impression though. I mean, speaking of how people conflate issues, the assumptions that are made, the assumption is that if you focus on immigration, then you will be by design, have the Latino vote without acknowledging there is a distinction, right?
The idea of thinking, which countries we're talking about, those who are citizens, those who are seeking a pathway citizenship, the assumption that immigration policy equals the only or the top issue for Latino voters is a dangerous assumption to make based on the notion of even sending to Martha's Vineyard. But you were sort of nodding along just now. And you just in disagreement.
JENNINGS: No, I totally, everything she said, I totally agree with.
COATES: Listen. Wait.
NAVARRO: My God. Breaking news. Somebody please. CNN breaking news. Bring back the banner.
CAMEROTA: We build bridges here. JENNINGS: No.
COATES: I love this moment. I want to let it link. Can we can we let it --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: It's not going to last long, but go ahead.
JENNINGS: No, no. I look, I think Republicans are rolling in Florida largely because of the outreach that she was talking about that the Republicans have done. And I think the Republican office holders down there have started to treat Latin -- Latino voters, Hispanic voters like they're every other American that has concerns that are broader than just immigration reform.
I think when you get in trouble in politics is when you say you have a certain identity characteristic. Therefore, you are only allowed to care about this issue that I associate with your identity. So, if you're a female voter, and I tell you, you're only allowed to care about abortion. Well, what if there are independent women that also care about, I don't know, inflation.
You're leaving yourself out of that debate. I think that's what Democrats have done with Latino voters in Florida and Texas. I don't agree with Jim about Arizona. It looks to me like Republicans are probably going to win the governor's race in Arizona. And according to some polling. Masters is close to Kelly. I don't know if he's going to win, but it's a very close --
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: Do you want bet money on that race?
JENNINGS: Do I want to bet money?
MESSINA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Go ahead guys. Let's go right here.
JENNINGS: You want to bet money on the governor's race?
MESSINA: No, no. You're just holding the Republican line. Everything you've said tonight, let -- let's be in the middle and talk about. So, Arizona is a great example. That wasn't even on the battlefield when you were in the White House or I was in the White House.
Now, Democrats are winning presidential elections. They have both Senate seats and you're saying they're doing well with the Latino players. Scott, enough with the talking points.
JENNINGS: I'm saying that in -- are you saying that the Democrat candidate for governor is currently doing well in Arizona?
MESSINA: No, I'm saying the Democrats have won the presidential in both Senate seats since -- (CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying in this election --
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: But you just said they were driving the --
JENNINGS: I'm saying in this --
MESSINA: Are you saying Mark Kelly is not going to win the U.S. Senate race?
JENNINGS: I don't know. It's close race. I'm saying in this election Republicans in many states, most states are doing far better with Hispanic voters than we usually do. There is a clear movement in the polling and in some of the races that have already occurred this year of Hispanic voters choosing Republicans. That's an absolute fact.
MESSINA: So clear -- so they're winning a majority.
JENNINGS: No, I said --
MESSINA: Latino voters?
JENNINGS: I said there's a movement towards Republican, not a majority. I said there's a movement beyond what we normally get.
MESSINA: Come on, man.
JENNINGS: You -- are you disagreeing? It is a -- it is a fact that Republicans have done better with Hispanics.
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: You just said that they are doing in Arizona really? You've lost every statewide race in the past five years, and you're doing better with Latino voters? Scott, come on. Enough with the talking points.
JENNINGS: I feel like -- I feel like your debate with Karl Rove that you had before you came here, like your ears are clogged.
MESSINA: No.
JENNINGS: I'm telling you --
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: I'm concerned that there are -- and she gave me the talking points, and now you can't shift.
JENNINGS: I tell you what, man. Do you have a single friend?
CAMEROTA: Guys. JENNINGS: Absolute, --
CAMEROTA: Guys, guys --
COATES: Well.
CAMEROTA: Guys, stop.
JENNINGS: I'm sorry. I don't -- no, no, no. I'm sorry. I don't come on here in read talking points. You know me and you know me, and you. I don't come on here and read talking -- I don't even know you. And you've come out and you're insulted.
CAMEROTA: I know. But guys, the ad hoc attacks, let's just --
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: I agree.
JENNINGS: I don't want to be accused of any talking points. It is -- it is an absolute fact. Republicans are doing somewhat better with Hispanics. She laid it out. I agreed with that. And it's the truth.
NAVARRO: And her name is Ana.
COATES: Well, here, listen. Here's the thing. Wait, can we say there's really no need to bet. Is there, because in 13 days, in 13 says --
(CROSSTALK)
MESSINA: And already 12 million voters have voted.
COATES: Well, I mean, in 13 -- I'm just saying in 13 days we can -- we can opine and pontificate and prognosticate.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Look, things are --
COATES: Or we can wait and see what the voters of Arizona actually tell us, and we're going to get there soon.
CAMEROTA: I mean, obviously things are getting spicy everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, this is, these conversations are happening everywhere.
NAVARRO: I like what you did there. Spicy, Latino, the thing.
JENNINGS: You know, yes, you could tell when democrats are feeling the pressure in election, they start insulting --
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: OK, stop.
COATES: I just turn into --
MESSINA: Not insulting.
COATES: Can we go back to that pretty moment. The machine when you two said, I agree with everything that was said.
JENNINGS: She was right.
COATES: I will just show you that.
JENNINGS: She was right. She was dead on it in Florida.
CAMEROTA: My God.
JENNINGS: A hundred percent.
[22:39:55]
CAMEROTA: All right. We're pivoting right now to another story. Because the Washington Post is out with a new analysis of the NFL and they've come to the conclusion that the league uses black coaches when they need to clean up team's messes. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: The NFL still has a lot of work to do when it comes to hiring black coaches, but a new analysis from the Washington Post shows that NFL teams often turn to black coaches to serve as interim leaders when the teams are in crisis.
Since 1990, just three out of 14 black interim coaches were offered a permanent role that compares to 10 out of 32 white interim coaches who were promoted to a permanent position.
But you were telling me, Laura, that it's often the black coaches have a better record.
COATES: Yes. Remember, like the Hunger Games made the odds ever in your favor. The odds have been in the favor of the coaches that had a more than 500 record win. Right? And instead, the stats are, you know, of the white interim coaches you had, they had promotions with a 3.361 winning record as compared to the black coaches over 500 or more.
[22:45:08]
And so, you've got this idea here building about the Rooney Rule, which is essentially you've got to give somebody a chance and actually have diverse hiring.
CAMEROTA: Diverse. Yes.
COATES: And you've got the glass cliff, and it's why we have this panel here today because the glass cliff, including a former NFLer who will be much more well versed in all this than all of us here.
CAMEROTA: So, let's bring in Ana Navarro again. We also have former NFL player, Donte Stallworth who we love having here. And Scott Jennings is also back with us.
OK, Donte. So, the glass cliff, that Laura was just referring to is, basically clean up on aisle nine is needed. Let's get the black coach in here to do it. I mean, am I -- is that -- am I explaining it right?
DONTE STALLWORTH, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Yes, it, it seems that way. And when you look at the way that the NFL has had its hiring practices over the last couple of decades, they've tried, at least I should say, the league office has tried to make these amendments to the Rooney Rule that where, you have to interview more black coaches. More minority coaches.
But we've seen time and time again where, when you -- when you are doing that pickup on aisle nine, you know, it's not the coaches that have had these teams, right? It's -- they're, they're picking up from the other -- from their head coach's job.
And I think that when we kind of get lost into the weeds of how this happens where, you know, the coaches that are coming on interim coaching, they're not, they're -- they're not able to instill their philosophy. They're not able to, you know, bring in the players that they want through drafts and through free agency.
So, they're essentially picking up someone else's mess and told here, hold this together for us while we figure out what we're going to do for the future.
COATES: And they're set up for failure, right? I mean, the idea -- and that's part of the frustration that so many have had. There's a class action suit, as we know, involving two black coaches as well. One in Florida, you know, and Steve Wilks as well.
And you think about the - how this is going. I mean, the whole premise of the glass cliff is you never had a chance. We brought you in because everything was problematic. And to give the elusory chance that you could fill the role will put you there. But permanent coaches, forget about it.
And this is a league which is constantly issue. You've got what, 70 percent of the players black, 13 percent of the -- of the coaches in all categories, black over time. This is, is it a coincidence?
STALLWORTH: You know what? You can't argue with the data, right? I think there are -- there are well meaning people that are making these decisions in the NFL at times where they don't -- they don't necessarily know that these are -- this is what happening. But when you look at the data, you can't refute that empirical evidence.
So, I think that's why the league office has really tried to push the owners. Ultimately, it's the owner's decision who they hire and fire. So, the NFL can, you know, put the Rooney Rule in. They can make all the amendments they want, but at the end of the day, it's the owners that have the hiring power in the NFL.
CAMEROTA: What's wrong, Scott? Why are you -- JENNINGS: No, not. I have a question. In some of these difficult situations, is it possible that some of the interim coaches that are brought in, like when you're brought in to handle a crisis or a huge mess and you do a terrific job, is this -- is there a potential silver lining to be hired into one of those situations because you, it turns out you're a masterful leader and you're able to handle a crisis and run a team at the same time.
I don't know of any situations where that panned out for somebody, but it -- in your experience, has that ever been the possibility where someone got dropped into a mess and turned out to be a total genius?
STALLWORTH: It has happened. I can't speak to exactly which coaches, but it's happened a few times. But it's very rare. And I, and again, I think it's rare because you're, whenever the coach is fired, I mean, it's been usually total dysfunction.
So, you just look at what happened with the Carolina Panthers. They traded away one of the best players their franchises ever had. So that signals to the rest of the team that we are playing for the future. We're not trying to win anymore. Or we're not -- we're not, we're not looking towards winning the Super Bowl this year. We are planning for the future.
So, they've brought in Steve Wilks. The only thing I can say about that is that sometimes when they do hire these interim coaches, the head coach has the -- has the option to have an assistant head coach and sometimes that assistant head coach, again, which is the head coach's decision, it's his decision to hire that assistant head coach to come in. And sometimes it is, but sometimes the owner will step in and make the final decision of who they want the interim head coach to be.
COATES: That's an important point.
NAVARRO: Don't even look at me. This entire conversation has my palm sweating. I have like Anderson Cooper level of sports knowledge and particularly. But I mean, I do, you know, I did hear about the Brian Flores issue because it was talked about in my house. But that's all I know that his name is Brian.
(CROSSTALK)
CAMEROTA: Are you throwing Anderson under the bus? I'm enjoying this. You're throwing Anderson sports.
NAVARRO: Have you ever seen Anderson? I mean, Anderson talks about this. He's -- he confesses it himself.
CAMEROTA: That's -- I thought that I held the record at CNN for knowing the least about sports. But maybe it's Anderson.
NAVARRO: No, it's me. It's me.
CAMEROTA: Great. COATES: Well, I tell you is I'm so glad, Donte, you brought this in
this discussion as well and have it contributed because we keep talking about coaches, but it's also offensive coordinators, defensive coordinators.
STALLWORTH: Right.
COATES: It's not just the head coach, the 32 closed universe of facts. And this is such a relatable issue outside of the world of football in corporate America, in other instances it's women, people of color, in particular as well on this glass cliff.
[22:50:01]
So, if you didn't know about it, well now you know. And we want to know what you think out there as well. Is the NFL using black coaches to clean up team's message? Have you heard about the glass cliff? Do you have your own experience as well? Tweet us at Alisyn Camerota and at the Laura Coates. Use the hash tag CNN sound off.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: There's stunning new video out of Iran. Thousands of protestors ignoring government road closures and walking to the grave site of Mahsa Amini. They're marking 40 days since the 22-year-old Iranian woman died after being detained by so-called morality police for allegedly failing to observe the country's strict dress code.
[22:55:02]
Her death sparked a wave of protest throughout the country, and today the U.S. announced new sanctions against Iranian officials for their brutal crackdown on those protestors.
CAMEROTA: I'm just watching the video there because it's been astounding 40 days --
COATES: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- and the outrage hasn't died down.
COATES: No.
CAMEROTA: The protests haven't died down, and today, apparently, the security forces told her family not to mark the 40-day, you know, commemorative of her death by marching --
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: Which an important moment for Iranian and Islamic faith. The idea of thinking about the 40-day, that means something very significant as to why this.
CAMEROTA: And they wouldn't let her family march with them. They threatened her brother with arrest. So, it is in the tension is not getting better. And obviously, people are not going back to their homes as the security forces are threatening them.
COATES: You know, the laws there they don't have a ban for the government to be able to shut down engagement in ceremonies, even under a pretextual reason of safety and security concern. So, the idea of what's really happening, did the family actually planned not to celebrate? It's a lot. And we're still thinking of her and the protests in Iran.
CAMEROTA: Yes. We'll keep staying on this story, of course.
All right. Back here if all politics are local, does that mean that extremism is now local? Also, we're going to look at the local threats to disrupt elections, and we have some incredible examples to show you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
