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CNN Tonight

Candidates Maximize Their Campaign Effort; Former President Trump Gave A Gist To His Announcement; It's Make Or Break Between Fetterman And Oz; Mandela Barnes Ignored What He Hears From Opponent; Blacks And Latinos Should Not Be Forgotten; Election Denial Added To History Books; Speaker Pelosi Rattled By The Attack. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired November 07, 2022 - 22:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Check it out and bid. Thanks so much for joining me tonight. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Jake Tapper. Our coverage now continues with the illuminous Laura Coates and the awesome Alisyn Camerota who you can -- by the way, you can bid on a Zoom call with Alisyn Camerota. I don't -- Coates, I don't think I hit you up. I'll hit you up next year. I'm sorry. That's my bad. That's my --



TAPPER: That's my --

COATES: I will be bad.

TAPPER: That's my b.

COATES: I will Zoom bomb her, Zoom call.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes. That would great.

COATES: Like this. Hello?

CAMEROTA: That would go -- that would be a lot of money, number one. I noticed --

TAPPER: That'd be good.

CAMEROTA: -- you promote Jennifer Aniston's purse --


CAMEROTA: -- more than the coffee Zoom with me, Jake, and he --


COATES: I notice that. TAPPER: Well, I knew that I would have a chance to talk to you right

now. It's not like I'm throwing to an episode of friends and I had the opportunity to like, this is, this is more run than I gave Jennifer Aniston's purse, which is right now I think the bid's up to $5,000. I'm not saying that you're not worth that. I'm not saying that you're not worth that. You are worth more than that.

CAMEROTA: And it's particularly since Laura is going to Zoom bomb it --


CAMEROTA: -- so that obviously that will fetch much more.


TAPPER: How does one do that? Can you do that?

CAMEROTA: Just like this.

COATES: It's this. I just did it. I went horizontal just like that.

TAPPER: So, you're going to go to her house. OK. I like it.

COATES: We we're obviously living together now.

CAMEROTA: We live together, Jake.

COATES: It's a whole thing.


CAMEROTA: It's hard to understand.

COATES: We're not going on right now.

TAPPER: We have to catch up. Because this is all --

COATES: This is going to last.

TAPPER: Some lifestyle situations going on here. I did not know about it all.

COATES: This is gone left.

TAPPER: That's great. All right. Kudos.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jake, excuse us. We have a show to do right now.

TAPPER: Sorry. I know. I'm sorry. How about --


CAMEROTA: It's election eve. All right, Jake, get some sleep.

TAPPER: Bye, guys. CAMEROTA: We'll see you tomorrow. Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn


COATES: And I'm Laura Coates. And this is CNN TONIGHT.

And here we go, everyone. The final two hours before election day in America. What may be the most consequential midterms of our entire lifetimes. Control of the House and the Senate are at stake.

Everyone is out in four Senate across the country. Look at how crowded that map is. The candidates are finally and making their final pitches in key battleground states.

CAMEROTA: The marquee events tonight tell you just how hard fought these races are, what they could mean for the future of America and for the future of Joe Biden's presidency.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Folks, you got one day until one of the most important elections you heard this time and again, almost feel good of repeating it. Our lifetimes are going to be shaped by what happens the next year to three years. It's going to shape what the next couple decades look like.


CAMEROTA: And in what could be a replay of 2020, former President Trump is on the trail tonight campaigning for J.D. Vance in Ohio. That rally is still going on, but here is what he said just a little while ago.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Poll numbers that are through the roof and so do Republicans. This is going to be a wave. I think there's going to be a very big wave.


CAMEROTA: All right. We've got a lot to talk about tonight. So, here to do that with us, we have the hardest working man at CNN, John Berman and CNN political commentators, Van Jones and David Urban.

Great to have all of you here. Van, let me start with you. How are you feeling on election eve?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm excited. I'm excited. I think that people have to remember the polls have been wrong before. I bet, the polls have been wrong before, they were wrong in 2016. They were wrong in 2018, and I think that you got people out there fighting.

You were just talking about, you know, Pennsylvania. We were talking about that before. You've got grassroots organizations that are out there fighting right now. They're on the phones right now. Unite Here, Power in Action, Casa in Action, one vote counts. These are folks who are not going to give up on democracy and I'm excited. And you don't know what's going to happen until, until the last votes cast.

COATES: David Urban is cracking up already though.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, I am cautiously optimistic, right? Let's just put it that way. And, look a little jealous that I'm not out there. For years, most of my --


URBAN: Most of my life, I've been out on the other side of this camera out in Pennsylvania, knocking doors, you know, going to these rallies the night before. And there's something about democracy in action that unless you're out there, you really can't get a sense of it. Right?

Going to those rallies and knocking doors and having doors slamming at your face, right? And, and walk it up. And walking up to a yard full of Shapiro signs, right, when you're campaigning for Oz. And it's just, it's a great thing.


URBAN: It is democracy in action, and it's exciting and, you know, it's exciting to be part of it.

COATES: Let me ask you. On a night like this, when you normally would've done that, both of you thinking about this, when these races are so deadlock, it seems in these polls, and I know they're like polar coasters, we get that from time to time. But what is the atmosphere like? Are their minds still left to be changed even in this really 11th hour?

JONES: You would be surprised how many people tonight don't know how they're going to vote tomorrow morning.


JONES: There are -- no, there are people who literally are just down, they're turning on to CNN, they're trying to make their decisions. Just because we live this stuff all day doesn't mean that everybody does.

URBAN: I better step up my game.

JONES: It's just a fact. There are people right now who are still making up their mind, and I think we have to continue to make the case that their votes matter. Some of these elections are going to be decided by a hundred votes, a thousand votes, 20 votes.

[22:04:59] And so, you matter. And your -- and your decision to push the country one way or another matters. And it matters tomorrow morning when you go home.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: See, I think there are people who haven't decided whether they're going to vote at all.

JONES: Sure. Sure.

BERMAN: I think there are more of them. They're deciding, let's see how the weather is tomorrow. Let's see if I'm hungry around you, and maybe I'll go out and get a notch and vote at the same time. I don't think there are that many people left or choosing between candidate A and candidate B, not who -- not who will make a difference.

CAMEROTA: Well, here are the closing arguments in Pennsylvania of Mehmet Oz and John Fetterman. So, let's listen to what they said tonight.


JOHN FETTERMAN (D), PENNSYLVANIA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: And every day I feel better and better. By January, I'll be even better.


FETTERMAN: But, but he'll -- Dr. Oz will still be a fraud.


FETTERMAN: He's made millions by scamming people. He sold miracle cures that I couldn't pronounce. Even before I had a stroke, I couldn't have ever done.

MEHMET OZ (R), PENNSYLVANIA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I will bring balance to Washington, but John Fetterman, he'll bring more extreme and there is no greater example, no greater example of two people that different running for the Senate.


CAMEROTA: David, you know, Pennsylvania and the races there well.

URBAN: I know. I know.

CAMEROTA: And do you still think it's a heavy lift, a heavier lift for Dr. Oz?

URBAN: I think post-debate, you know, there was a -- there was a moment in this campaign where Dr. Oz went to Philadelphia, Frankfurt under the Frankfurt L there kind of a shooting gallery, open air. He went and talked to some of the folks on the street, put him in his car, took him to hospital, get rehabbed.

And I think that really was a turning point in the race. A lot of people saw his humanity, saw him as a person, not a candidate. And I think the narrative changed there. And the debate was a milestone as well. Not necessarily because John Fetterman was, you know, kind of stumbled things.

But I think the differences, you know, policy differences on fracking and other things that matter to Pennsylvanians really hit them. So, I would give Oz a slight advantage here going into tomorrow night. But listen, it's never easy for Republican.

I was a chief of staff to the United States Senator there for who was -- for years and years and every election we just squeak it out as a Republican. He was a very moderate Republican and Pat Toomy and others. It's a tough, it's a purple state and it's really tough no matter who it is.

JONES: I think Fetterman is beloved. He's beloved by Democrats, and he is authentic and he's real. His pain is real. But what's wrong with Fetterman will heal. Something is wrong with his brain, but it will heal and he's actually ahead of pace for most stroke victims. This time next year, he'll be fine.

What's wrong with Oz can't heal. There's something wrong with his heart. That is a guy who has ripped people off and ripped people off his entire life. Oprah Winfrey who made him won't back him. And so, I think that the end of the day, there's a passion for him at the grassroots level that is not contingent upon his health. They know his heart. They know who he is, and they're going to fight for him until the last time.

COATES: Let me ask you, how influential or impactful do you all think it was to have Oprah Winfrey endorse him in the way he did? Now, I'm not suggesting --


JONES: Better to have than not.

COATES: Well, there's that.

JONES: Better to have than not.

COATES: But I'm talking about, but the timing of an endorsement is always so critical in my mind. The idea of the when you -- when you have early voting, it's already started. Why do you think there has been the delay in endorsing if she was going to do so for the many reasons she spoke about. And because it's happened now, does it make a difference?

BERMAN: Look, I think that it's better to have it than not. I think had she done it earlier and or had she done it where she said something about Oz himself saying, this is why I can't vote for Oz here. I know Mehmet Oz. I've known him for this long and this is why I can't vote for him now.

COATES: Well, we know him because she knew him. Right?

BERMAN: Right. What she didn't really do in this case. Look, I'm not saying Oprah should go negative.

JONES: Right.

BERMAN: Right? But if she wanted to really help John Fetterman, that's what she would've done. And the one thing I'll say about Mehmet Oz in Pennsylvania, you say it's a purple state. It is. But it's redder than the rest of the country at this point. It is. It's a little bit, it's about three points more Republican than the rest of the country right now, at least.

So, the fact that it's a race at all actually shows, I think what a not great candidate Oz is on paper. It's because of his deficiencies as a candidate that this is as close as it is.

URBAN: Well, so unfortunately, I helped, you know, bang up Dr. Oz in the primary. So, I helped drive up those.


JONES: That's very interesting.

URBAN: So, I helped drive up those negatives, but I would say a couple things. I agree with you, John, on the Oprah part, right? So, if I was, if I was Mehmet Oz, I'd be running that Oprah endorsement because lots of places where they're going deer hunting, right, in Pennsylvania, Oprah Winfrey is not carrying the day.

If she to come out and said, I worked with them. Here are the facts, here are the reasoning behind my endorsement gone negative. I think that would've been much more impactful. And look, it's a race where I've heard from a lot of people in Pennsylvania not really thrilled about this guy. Not really thrill, but that guy. So, here's what I'm going to do. Right?

And so, it is a tough place like that. And look, that's why we play football games on Sunday. That's why we have elections on Tuesday, --

JONES: Exactly.

URBAN: -- because we're not leaving up the pollsters.


JONES: Yes. Look, I mean, I think that, you know, I heard Oz saying something about, you know, our neighbors are Democrats got good to the neighbors. You're right. Your neighbors are Democrats in New Jersey where you live. Like that's the -- the guy is a complete phony. He's a complete fraud.

And so, I think that that at the end of the day means something to people and I think we'll see. And again, passion matters. The ground games matters. There's passion for Fetterman on the ground. There's not passion for Oz anywhere. I don't see passion for Oz.

URBAN: Listen, listen, I just -- I couldn't disagree with you more about a political candidate. Right? JONES: OK.

URBAN: So, John Fetterman, you know, be the mayor of Braddock, he won handful of votes. It's a tiny election. To be the Lieutenant Governor not really -- no one really paid attention to that race either. So, he's kind of skated to where he is. This race, you know, I would say if it was a Conor Lamb, he amazingly skated through this primary with two other very capable candidates, right?

And his record on the parole board. Josh Shapiro was on this -- on the network just a little bit earlier, 200 times voted in opposition to John Fetterman. I'd like to hear that explanation. Right.


BERMAN: They're Conor Lamb though.

URBAN: What's that?

BERMAN: He (Inaudible) Conor Lamb's clock? He needs skate. He --


URBAN: No, no, I understand. Because just like, because John, just like in -- just like in a Republican primary, the Democratic primaries controlled by very progressive people. It served on Republican, very progressive on the Democratic Party.

JONES: It's a different kind of progressive. If a guy -- if a guy had not had the stroke, he'd be -- he'd be 10 points.

URBAN: And listen, here's all I can say. Can he not buy a suit? Can he not buy a suit?

COATES: Hey, well hold on. If the criteria --


BERMAN: No one wears ties anymore.

COATES: Gentlemen, if the criteria is who wears a suit, there wouldn't be a congressman named Jim Jordan right now. So that's not the only criteria.

URBAN: At least he wears a tie though, at least he wears a tie.

COATES: Sometimes rolls up sleeves though, right?

CAMEROTA: But we do need to just check out Ohio for something.

COATES: All right. Let's do it.

CAMEROTA: Former President Trump is stumping for J.D. Vance there and there had been rumors, I think planted by Donald Trump that he was going to be making a big announcement tonight, but we have gotten word that he is not going to be making -- (CROSSTALK)

JONES: We got --

CAMEROTA: -- any big.

COATES: Well, that -- that's the announcement. The announcement is there won't be no announcement.


JONES: We got punk the game.

URBAN: Listen, the guy knows how to control the narrative, right? I mean, so he -- early this morning, I may -- I may announce, and then all day long everyone is chasing. Is Donald Trump going to announce? Is he not going to announce? Is he going to announce up until, you know, eight o'clock till he goes on? Everyone is wondering whether he's going to do it or not.

CAMEROTA: But ultimately --

URBAN: And then Lucy pulls the football away.

CAMEROTA: That's right. But ultimately, David, is it your impression that he is going to announce that he'll run for president?

URBAN: Donald Trump is going to run for president for a variety of reasons, don't even have to do with the presidency?

COATES: Well, you know what? Let's talk about it in about two years. No, about two months or maybe two days. We're going to go right now the magic wall to break down five other key races outside of Pennsylvania to watch with election day now less than two hours away, everyone.



COATES: All right, take tapes. It's down to the wire now, everyone. In a matter of hours, millions of Americans will make their voices heard. Millions of course, already have in early voting, but we're going too hard to tabulate them after that point. And control of the Senate could actually come down to just a few tight battlegrounds.

CNN's Harry Enten joins us now at the magic wall with his key races to watch. Harry?

HARRY ENTEN, SENIOR DATA REPORTER, CNN: Thanks, Laura. You know, you were just talking about two important states tomorrow that will be voting that will ultimately determine who controls the United States Senate, both Ohio and Pennsylvania. They're part of a slew of states that will really tell the picture in the United States Senate.

Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, New Hampshire, as we said, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Let's, let's leave aside Ohio and Pennsylvania and zoom in on some of these other important key Senate races. So, let's start in Arizona where the incumbent Mark Kelly is facing a very tough matchup against Blake Masters.

Keep in mind, Arizona, a state that Joe Biden won in 2020 by the small sub margins has traditionally been Republican. The question is, are voters in the southwest going to go back to the Republican roots, or are they perhaps going to stick with Mark Kelly? We don't know yet. We'll see when all the votes come in.

And the other part of the country, let's go to the southeast where we have this very interesting matchup between Senator Raphael Warnock, the incumbent Democrat versus Herschel Walker, the Republican.

Remember, Warnock won his Senate seat in a runoff election back in January of 2021. There's a possibility that we could get another runoff here because there's a libertarian candidate, and remember, in the state of Georgia, you need at least a majority of the vote to win on election day.

It could be the case that neither of these two get a majority, and then we have a runoff come December to ultimately determine Senate control. We'll have to wait and see on that.

Let's go back to the southwest and talk about Nevada. Senator Catherine Cortez Masto facing Adam Laxalt who is the former attorney General in that state. I'm kind of interested to see does Arizona go one way and Nevada go another way? They're both in the southwest, heavily Hispanic population. We'll see what ultimately occurs there.

Then sort of a late breaking Senate race in New Hampshire. Senator Maggie Hassan, facing off against Don Bolduc who, of course won that primary with a slew of money actually coming from the Democrats supporting his campaign, or at least a third party supporting his campaign.

This is a late breaking race. This is a state that Joe Biden won easily eclipsing Hillary Clinton's margin, but that was a state that went Democratic in 2016 as well by a very small margin. Will it go back to that where we have a very tight margin? We'll see what happens.

Finally, in the state of Wisconsin where Mandela Barnes is taking on Senator Rob Johnson, the Republican incumbent, perhaps the most endangered Republican incumbent. There's also a gubernatorial race there that's very, very tight. Will those two vote together? Will they vote separately? We're just going to have to wait and see, but of course, Wisconsin an ultimate swing state.

Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: OK, Harry, thank you very much. Back with us to talk about all this. We have John Berman, Van Jones, and David Urban.

OK, let's talk, let's start in Wisconsin. COATES: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And let's start with how race has been injected into that race in a variety of ways. Let's start with the attack ads against Mandela Barnes by Ron Johnson. That some people see shades of some Willie Horton stuff happening. So, let's watch some of this.


UNKNOWN: More than 300 murders just last year. Terror at the Waukesha Christmas parade, but defund the police, radical Mandela Barnes still supports eliminating cash bail, releasing dangerous criminals back into our communities.


Think crime is bad now. Mandela Barnes would make it worse. Barnes would eliminate cash bail even after the Waukesha Christmas Parade attack, supports amnesty and sanctuary cities for illegals, and had worked for a radical group that wants to defund the police.


CAMEROTA: OK. Van, your reaction to some of that.

JONES: Well, look, you know, politics is not being bad and so, you know, you got the right to throw hard punches. It hurts to see it. It just feels like this is a guy who is a good man. He has worked hard in the community. A lot of people, Republicans and Democrats in the past years have been trying to figure out ways to fix our criminal justice system so we aren't locking up so many people for no reason, for long reasons, for bad reasons, and some of that stuff hasn't worked out well. We should stay together and try to fix it.

When you take somebody and you put those kind of images up though, and you have that kind of scary music, I don't know what the intention is, but it makes me feel very tight and very nervous and it makes me feel like the racialized fear of crime is being used for political game.

And I just don't think it's necessary. I don't think that it's right. I don't think that it's fair. I think it misrepresents him. That's his politics. But there's something in that approach that I think is beneath the senator. And it's unfortunate.

COATES: Let me tell you. You know, when you're talking about, I think it needs to be clarified and we're talking about cash bail. I think there's oftentimes this idea that no one ever judges whether someone gets released pretrial, except for on a cash system.

The federal system does not do a cash bail system. It's up to a judge to be able to decide the severity of the crime, whether the person is harmed to the community or shut the community. And so it's not unheard of.

But I actually had a chance to speak to Mandela Barnes today on my Sirius XM show, and I asked him about these ads. Because I was really wondering about the notion, how did he take it? How did he perceive this sort of thing? And here was his response.


MANDELA BARNES (D), WISCONSIN SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: The thing is, I'm not personally offended, right? Like I, they're dumb. The, you know, the ad, the ads are, they're stupid. Let's just call them what they are. And it's a ploy from Ron Johnson to distract from, you know, the fact that he's done nothing for us.

I tell you, one of the things about it is there's been more spending in this race than in the history of the state of Wisconsin, most extensive race in our entire history in Wisconsin. And there aren't ads talking about Ron Johnson or the things that he's done because there aren't any.

I'm not personally offended, like I said, I put my name on the ballot. I'm offended for the people of Wisconsin, the people who have been made to feel like they're less than, because some of the things they see and hear on the ad and see themselves reflect it.


COATES: I mean, a point that he's trying to make about not personalizing this. Right? And the idea of what it's saying about the electorate, but that's an interesting point, John. The idea of talking about it from perspective of if attack ads is the main vehicle, what does that say to the electorate about perhaps this continuing issue about how people perceive the quality of the candidates, in this case, an incumbent?

BERMAN: Look, we see attack ads because they work. I mean, I think that's the, you know, the two political hacks over there. And I say that nicely.

URBAN: It's different thing, distasteful, but it does move the numbers.

BERMAN: Yes, they're nodding as soon as they say people use them because they work. It's easier to say something simple like that in one line than it is to lay out your entire resume in a 32nd spot. And that's just the sad fact about American politics there.

And I think Van actually gave an answer that had Mandela Barnes been giving that answer for the last two months on the crime thing. I don't know if he would've inoculated himself to it, but it would've moved him further along. The fact is there is a perceived crime issue now --


BERMAN: -- across the --


JONES: We're at a different spot now and you know, we've worked together trying to --


URBAN: Van and I actually work together on the First Step Act. Right?

JONES: Exactly.

URBAN: We worked together in the Trump administration.

BERMAN: That's my point is that these issues like cash bail and these things were bipartisan issues.


BERMAN: What got us to this point in many different states, it was actually a bipartisan --


BERMAN: -- honest effort and now it's being doomed.


COATES: Well, I want to know, though, in your mind, why do these acts -- ads work? That's the key to people.

URBAN: Not just -- not just that Mandela Barnes ad, but like any negative ad works, right?

CAMEROTA: Negativity bias.

URBAN: Negativity. It works, right? It drives the numbers down. You're talking about the Oz/Fetterman race, right? Both have extremely high negatives. Why? Because they attacked each other and drove those up. Right? And so, people say, well --


COATES: But they're still the conflation. I mean, I think the point he's making and what we're talking about as well, and we're talking about crime in particular is, I want to hone it. Why do -- why do you think it's impactful?

You mentioned the idea of the racialized fear of crime. Maybe it's the conflation, the negative -- negativity in general more broadly. And they did mention in one of the ads this --

URBAN: Waukesha.

COATES: -- tragic Waukesha Christmas parade, which unbelievable to think that they happened. Do you think that it's the, the idea of the different lightning rods combined that's making that the case?

URBAN: That's making this ad particularly distasteful?


COATES: Well, if you think so. URBAN: I just look, I'm not a big fan of negative ads at all. Every campaign, when I'm watching, people are showing you the three ads and they say, which one do you like? I never vote for the night. It's just terrible. And they, and then they show you the numbers, and then the candidates, you know, regrettably say, they begrudgingly kind of say, OK, we'll run it. Right.

And that's happens in every campaign. Nobody wants to do this, but you know, they're shown that they move just like Alisyn said so. I don't know particularly why this is, maybe, you know, the Waukesha case is being tried in, you know, right now we see the gentleman in court every day.

COATES: Convicted.

URBAN: Yes. Well, but we saw that going on for a long time. Right? And so that's being played real time in Wisconsin. So, you know, I think it all just kind of moves the numbers.

CAMEROTA: All right. Gentlemen, --


COATES: To be clear though, these aren't -- this ad wasn't done by Senator Johnson, right? This is not his campaign.

CAMEROTA: I'm actually not sure.

COATES: I don't believe that was his --


JONES: And (Inaudible). Look, I think the one thing I do want to say to people is that there's no -- listen, I am a black dad trying to raise two, now three black kids in Los Angeles. I am not a part of the pro-crime caucus, and I don't know anybody who is. People are honestly trying to figure out how to use resource that we have to get as much safety as possible.

And if you begin to make certain changes, if you punish people for the few outliers who do something bad, you never get a chance to fix a system. So this is not just poisons to this campaign, it's poisons to our ability to actually get the community safety that we need.

CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, thank you very much for all of that. We have a lot more to talk about. President Biden and former President Trump campaigning to boost their own parties of course. And though they are not on the ballot this year, these midterms will have a huge impact on their futures and all of ours.

Presidential historian Jon Meacham is here to talk about that, next.



CAMEROTA: Former President Trump out campaigning tonight, saying that he -- he's saying this while campaigning for J.D. Vance in Ohio.


TRUMP: Not to detract from tomorrow's very important, even critical election. And I would say in the strongest way, it's a country saving election, specifically including the election of all the people that I'm going to name. I'm going to be making a very big announcement on Tuesday, November 15 at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida.


CAMEROTA: The music really adds a poignancy to his speech there. I mean, millions of voters heading to the polls in just a few hours, the political futures of both the former president and President Biden are also on the ticket.

So, joining us now, we have presidential historian Jon Meacham. Jon, I want a music bed to just play while I say anything. I mean that, that really lends, I feel a sort of historical importance to it.

JON MEACHAM, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I'm trying to get to battle him with the republic to play as my -- so maybe I'll could work on.

CAMEROTA: That would be great. How does what happen tomorrow, which whatever happens, whichever way it swings, define the political futures of Donald Trump and Joe Biden?

MEACHAM: Well, it's a fundamental election, about whether the Congress -- where the Congress will be, where the governors will be, where the secretaries of state will be going into a really consequential 24 months. And I think what we're looking at is a issue that is largely, and you're not supposed to modify unprecedented, but I think this is largely unprecedented.

In that, in 1932, Herbert Hoover didn't lose to Franklin Roosevelt and then put election deniers on the ballot in 1934 in order to come back in 1936. You know, Hubert Humphrey didn't do that in 1968 and '70 and '72.

And so, there's an immense, question facing the country, which is about the full, free and legitimate counting of votes, and that will be shaped fundamentally by what happens tomorrow.

CAMEROTA: Jon, has there ever been a time in history where an entire swath of a party has denied the results of an election or refused to accept their loss?

MEACHAM: I don't think so. I certainly can't think of anything. That's been the -- it's been a remarkable characteristic, right? I mean, the American Constitution is imperfect, obviously, it's taken amendment, it's taken reform, it's taken an immense struggle to, you know, the Constitution I kind of our user's guide. The Declaration of Independence is our mission statement.

And, but we have managed, by and large to create a politics that has been a mediation of differences and not simply a battlefield for total war. And to have this many folks telling pollsters whether it's exaggerated or not, that they believe the most examined election in American history is illegitimate is a problem.

And it's a fundamental problem because the popular will has to undergird the rule of law and the Constitution. And the fact that people like me have to say this and that you're asking questions like that is a sign of where we are and how important this is.


CAMEROTA: If Republicans win the House and even the Senate tomorrow, what happens to the future of Joe Biden's presidency?

MEACHAM: Well, the president has been through a lot of ups and downs in his life, and in his career. And I think he'll confront it as he's confronted everything else. I would think, again, he's my friend. I help him when I -- when I can. So, take this for what -- for what it's worth.

But I think that he believes in the mission of country to make the Declaration of Independence. And I think that he will see his duty going forward to continue to stand up for these perennial principles that could be under more prolonged time.

CAMEROTA: As you know, George W. Bush described his party's loss in 2006 as a thumping, and then Barack Obama described his party's loss in 2010 as a shellacking. Have you thought of a verb for what might happen tomorrow?

MEACHAM: No, I haven't thought of a verb, but you know, it's, and this is not to excuse what may or may not happen. Harry Truman won World War II and lost 55 seats in the House, and 12 Senate seats. And this happened to President Reagan. It happens. And it's part of the nature of the American experiment, is we tend to put a check on the person who only 24 months before we entrusted with ultimate power.

It was part of the constitutional design was to have the House and a third of the Senate close to the people, closer so that the popular will could (Inaudible).

Here's the question. If you believe in democracy when you win, you also have to believe in it when you lose, and that's the lesson that I think if that can be absorbed and made real, then the American experiment charges us.

CAMEROTA: Well, obviously everyone should read your book about Lincoln because he was doing that gracefully. He was willing to do it, I should say, gracefully. But you know, we're in a different time.

But Jon Meacham, it's always great to talk to you. We always feel smarter after talking to you. Thanks so much. And we'll talk soon.

MEACHAM: Where's my music? Where's my expectation?

CAMEROTA: Yes, you're right. We're going to strike up the in-house band that we have here very soon. Thanks, Jon. That's, I mean, he's so right.


CAMEROTA: Obviously, if history is any guide, then the party in power loses in the midterms. The Democrats will lose seats in the midterms. That's generally what happens in history because it's interesting. There's sort of a natural checks and balances as he's describing.


CAMEROTA: But nothing seems to be happening as predictable lately.

COATES: Well, no. I mean you've got this theory of inertia, right? Things that send to stay in motion totally disrupted by an external force, hash tag high school. But the January 6 and the Dobbs decision many thought might be those external forces, the idea of election denialism.

We're wondering what impact that's going to have on all of this. But I think his point about you have to believe in democracy when you win. And when you lose is going to be really key to see just how long of a week it really is going to be in terms of thinking about what happens.

Listen, everyone, black voters and women did help propel President Biden victory in 2020. Remember his comments about having one's back. But have the Democrats lost ground to the GOP among those vary groups? We're going to talk about it, next.



COATES: So is the GOP gaining support from black and Latino voters. That's what the Wall Street Journal finds in their latest poll.

CAMEROTA: It shows about 17 percent of black voters would pick a Republican candidate for Congress over a Democrat. It also found Democrats losing some support from Latino voters with the party holding just a five-percentage point lead over Republicans in October. That's compared to an 11-point lead in August.

Joining us now is Congresswoman Cheri Bustos, an Illinois Democrat and former Democratic Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick.

Great to see both of you.

COATES: Absolutely. And I want to start with you, Governor, on this point because, for many people looking at these issues, it seems that Democrats are losing a lot of ground to the Republican Party. It's not an immediate change, not going to happen overnight, but how do you see this notion of the inroads that have been made? What are you attribute it too?

FMR. GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D-MA): Well, first of all, I think Democrats know or ought to know not to take any voter or any vote for granted. I think that's why the best campaigns are working at the grassroots close to people, and not just talking to them, but listening to them.

I've been working through an organization called Bridge Together, which is providing funds to local existing grassroots groups so they can build up their organizing and community building capacity all year round.

And I'd like to see us do that in all 50 states, because I think that is how we lay a claim, not an assumption, but really make a case to every single voter for the importance of supporting the policies that we are driving. In fact, the importance of telling us the policies we should be driving that'll make a difference in their lives.

COATES: So, you see the grassroots advocacy as a way to broaden the base. Do you see grassroots advocacy as the main vehicle to address what seems to be driving a lot of the inroads, which is economy, inflation? Is that the best way to do it?

PATRICK: Well, I think that's an important part of it. I think you -- we also have to back it up with action, and Democrats frankly, are the only ones with a plan of action. You know, it's listening to people at the grassroots that causes, I think the best campaigns and the best office holders. To appreciate that people are worried about paying for groceries, paying the rent, you know, paying for healthcare costs.


And in every one of those areas there are actions that the Biden administration and the Democratic Congress have taken to address those. If you listen to Republicans, what Republican candidates are saying today is, look, there's a problem. That is their problem, but they have no answer, no solution.

And so, the question is, are we going to have a party that is actually interested in putting government to work -- to work for people, which is the case with Democrats, I believe. And in this cycle, Republicans who want to turn their government on people. Like for example, taking away a woman's right to choose.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And so, let's talk about women also, Congresswoman. Congresswoman. So, it's not just that Republicans seem to be making inroads with Latinos and blacks. There's a poll from CNN that in terms of female voters in 2018, 59 percent of them backed democratic congressional candidates. This year, 53 percent. So, it's gone down.

So, you, have such an interesting perspective as a Democrat who won in a Trump district. So, what do you think is going on?

REP. CHERI BUSTOS (D-IL): Well, I think it's, what women in the suburbs and families are paying every time they go to the grocery store. And, frankly, as Democrats we need to be disciplined and we need to be relentless, and we need to tell our own story that we're just not telling.

If you just take a look at the policies, the legislation that we have passed as Democrats in some cases without any help from our colleagues across the aisle, we are just not telling that story loudly enough, a loudly enough and enough. Period.

And so what happens is you go to the grocery store, you're paying way too much for a slab of bacon, way too much for a dozen eggs. And people are looking for somebody to blame. And because we have not told our story loudly enough about the Inflation Reduction Act. Or that we are doing our best to try to address this worldwide problem of paying too much at the -- at the gas pump.

And so, if you look back to 2018, I would argue that part of the reason that we won back the majority then is we were very disciplined in our message. We made a decision that we weren't going to stay focused on Donald Trump, but we were going to stay focused on bringing down the cost of things when you went to the grocery store and you bought something.


BUSTOS: That we are going to bring down the cost of healthcare, and that we are going to try to our best to clean up the mess in Washington.

CAMEROTA: But so, Congresswoman, for this around, I mean, do you think that they've missed an opportunity, that Democrats have missed an opportunity with not leaning more into the economic issues you just outlined?

BUSTOS: Well, yes, so we had the reversal of Roe versus Wade that happened months ago. I think we thought that we were going to be able to ride that into the sunset on November 8th, tomorrow now just a few hours away and thought that that was going to, to be our savior.

Well, it's not going to be our savior. It -- I don't know how you think my hair looks, but I got my hair cut today and if you think it looks good, you can my hairdresser credit. But I had a deep conversation with her. If you think about somebody who's cutting hair day in and day out, they're talking to a lot of people from across the spectrum.

And I just asked her, I said, what's on your mind? She's going to go to the polls tomorrow. And she said it was the fact that we live in the heartland right here in downstate, Illinois. In the congressional district I represent, there are close to 10,000 family farms.

And she said, I don't understand why we can have farms all around us and groceries are so expensive. You know, most people aren't studying politics day in and day out, and they don't understand it. And they don't know who's fighting for them because we're not telling that story loudly enough or clearly enough.

CAMEROTA: Well, your hair looks great. Shout out to your hairdresser.

COATES: So, does the governor's hair, by the way. We don't want to leave you out. We don't want to leave you out, sir.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Cheri Bustos, Governor Deval Patrick, thanks so much for taking time to talk to us tonight. PATRICK: Good to be with you. Thank you.

BUSTOS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, Speaker Nancy Pelosi has an exclusive interview with Anderson Cooper and what she is saying now about the attack on her husband Paul. It's the first time that she's speaking about it. That's next.



CAMEROTA: Now a CNN exclusive for you. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi giving her first interview since the hammer attack on her husband to CNN's Anderson Cooper.

COATES: So, during the interview, Speaker Pelosi understandably got emotional revealing the attack will impact her decision over her political future after the midterms.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Have you looked ahead and, I mean, have you made the decision in your mind, whatever that decision might be?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, I have to say, my decision will be affected about what happened the last week or two.

COOPER: Will it be, will your decision be impacted by the attack in any way?


COOPER: It will.



CAMEROTA: Well, that is a crying shame.


CAMEROTA: Because then mission accomplished.


CAMEROTA: That's exactly the purpose of political violence.


CAMEROTA: Which is to scare the people in power out of power to send a chilling effect on anybody considering, you know, a run. And I'm surprised to hear her say that because she has, you know, weathered so many challenges and obstacles and everything, and January 6th and other scary things. But obviously, this one was, I mean, close to home is obviously not the right expression.


COATES: Well, no, it's accurate though. I mean, it was literally in her home.

CAMEROTA: In her home, yes.

COATES: And she mentions during the interview that look that her husband was not the target, but it's maybe it's because of what she's weather. And I agree with you. The idea of having political violence and threats and a kind of terror attempting to influence your decisions happening right now and being accomplished.

But then imagine, imagine if it were you with them in the -- watching the videos in January 6 calling for you.


COATES: I mean, it's just something that you wonder just what people are thinking and where we are today.

CAMEROTA: It's also interesting to hear her say that she has not listened --


CAMEROTA: -- to the 911 call from the attack of, you know, her husband calling for help. She's not seen any of the footage and she says she doesn't want to.


COOPER: Have you been able to, to listen to the 911 call?

PELOSI: No, I haven't been able to listen to that. Or the body cam, any of that? No. Imagine when it is in the public domain is when I will have a chance to see it. But even then, the physician -


COOPER: Do you want to hear it?

PELOSI: And I don't think so. I don't think so, but I don't know if I'll have to. I don't -- I just don't know. That's all a matter on the legal side of things.



COATES: Just -- can you remember back, remember that footage of how calm and determined and focused she was on January 6. And with the phone to her ear, there was almost that Slim Jim moment we were all talking about.

And the idea of how she was able to compartmentalize in so many respects, the blurring with her husband, with her family.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, that's why I'm surprised to --


COATES: That must have been awful.

CAMEROTA: I mean, obviously she's human.

COATES: Of course.

CAMEROTA: So, of course this will impact her, but that's why I was surprised to say that it will affect her decision about her political future. Because we've seen her so capable in moments like that.


CAMEROTA: But this one is different.

COATES: Of course. Well, we will see, and we're only a few hours away really from the tabulation of those midterm elections, and these just won't impact who controls Congress. They also have a huge impact and implications for 2024. What all this means for the next presidential race, up next.