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CNN Gives Latest Updates On Nightclub Shooting In CO; CNN Gives Latest Updates On Murder Of Four Idaho Students; Delay Of JFK Assassination Records Leads To Conspiracy Theories; Americans Prepare For Thanksgiving; Multiple Fatalities Reported In Chesapeake, VA Shooting. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 22, 2022 - 23:00   ET




ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: New developments tonight in the Colorado Springs nightclub shooting investigation. The suspect is in jail after being released from the hospital and scheduled to appear in court tomorrow. The community, of course, is in mourning for five people killed at Club Q, a longtime place of celebration in a safe haven for the LGBTQ community.

Investigators say the suspect had previously been charged with felony menacing after allegedly making a bomb threat last year. Those charges were later dropped and the record sealed. When asked about a possible motive, the El Paso County district attorney telling CNN this earlier tonight.


MICHAEL ALLEN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, EL PASO COUNTY, COLORADO: So, we are definitely looking at -- Colorado has bias-motivated crime statutes which most people understand as hate crimes. We are definitely looking at that based on the facts involving this case that are very (INAUDIBLE) in the community now. And so, we're definitely looking at it. If there's evidence to charge it, we absolutely will charge it.


CAMEROTA: We're also learning more about the heroes who brought down the shooter. The navy identifying the man who was injured as he helped push the gun away from the shooter. That man was Thomas James, an information systems technician, petty officer, second class. The navy saying -- quote -- "James is currently in stable condition and we remain hopeful that he will make a full recovery."

A survivor identifying a still unnamed transwoman who kicked the shooter in the head with her heels and army vet Richard Fierro, who was one of the guys who brought down the suspect speaking out about that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHARD FIERRO, HERO FROM COLORADO SPRINGS SHOOTING: I lost my kid's boyfriend. I cried. I cried with everyone in there. I still feel bad that five people didn't go home. And this (bleep) guy, this guy, I told him while I was beating him, I'm going to (bleep) kill you, man, because you try to kill my friends. My family was in there.


CAMEROTA: I want to bring in now a friend of Kelly Loving, who was killed in the shooting. Natalee Bingham joins me now. Natalie, thank you so much for being here. I'm so sorry about your friend. Our condolences to you. And I understand that you were on the phone with Kelly moments before she went into the club?

NATALEE BINGHAM, FRIEND OF CLUB Q SHOOTING VICTIM KELLY LOVING: Yes, that's correct. We were on FaceTime exactly 10 minutes before the police were dispatched for an active shooter. And I was only on FaceTime with her for five minutes. It started at 11:48 p.m. and ended at 11:53 p.m.

CAMEROTA: And what was that call like?

BINGHAM: That call was one of the most beautiful calls that I will ever cherish for the rest of my life knowing that my friend felt beautiful in who she was and what she looked like that night. Kelly was a very not outgoing person to the club at all. So, it was nice to see her break out of her comfort zone and try something new and go above and beyond and go alone.

She refuses to go to places alone and it was so nice to see her so confident and so beautiful because this woman is a warrior in the trans community. She is more like a trans mother for me. She is the woman who gave me the confidence I am today.

CAMEROTA: Is that right? That's beautiful, Natalie. I also understand that you were going to celebrate. You had just celebrated her 40th birthday, but you are going to be spending Thanksgiving together.

BINGHAM: Yes, that is correct. Her 40th birthday was on November 16th. She was in Colorado Springs for just the weekend. And then, she was going to spend the rest the holiday week with myself and a couple friends at my house. And now, we have less person at our table this holiday.

CAMEROTA: That is going be really very hard. Thanksgiving is going to be really hard. And Natalie, I also understand that you have this incredibly -- sort of tragic parallel with a club shooting in your life. You were at the Pulse nightclub right before, and as I understand it, you left that night before the shooting there.


BINGHAM: Yes, that is correct. I left about an hour before the active shooter at Pulse was doing that. And I was not feeling well. And by the grace of God, I left an hour early. I had five friends killed that night. And I moved to Colorado to escape that fear of an active shooter again and it's tragic that it happened in what I consider home now.

CAMEROTA: Oh, that's awful. I'm so sorry to hear that. That's awful that you had five friends killed that night. And now, you had a friend killed in this mass shooting. How do you make sense of that in your head?

BINGHAM: Now, with it hitting even more home, being like a mother figure to me, I am going to get the justice Kelly deserves. This woman can't speak for herself anymore. So, I'm going to go above and beyond to make sure that the suspect is put behind bars for life.

And also, the gun control. I believe the red flag law was overlooked and the police should have taken his weapons away last year during his little bomb threat appearance with his mother.

CAMEROTA: In terms of the threats that are being leveled against the LGBTQ community, how is this changing your life?

BINGHAM: It's changing my life in the aspect that I'm going to be more cautious in open events, how good is the security, how well is the security, and I'm going to be going to big open sporting events.

I'm not going to live in fear because that's going to take away my freedom, but I'm definitely going to be more cautious because being a trans woman in this day and age, it seems like it is happening more and more frequent and you just have to live with caution, but that doesn't take away from me going out and living my life day-to-day.

CAMEROTA: Natalie, when we started the show, we just got -- we got a little bit of news earlier that the attorneys for the shooter are now saying that the shooter is non-binary, and the shooter would like to use the pronouns they/them, this is for the court, in all court papers, and that's what Anderson Aldrich's attorneys are saying. Do you have any thoughts on that?

BINGHAM: I think that's completely ludicrous. I believe they are just saying that because they want to have the easy way out on this. That's really, really offending, especially being a transgender woman myself, that a male, which it was obvious from the mugshot, that's a man, that's not a non-binary person because in no way shape or form could they appear as a woman the next day. It's really offensive to even hear that but they're playing that role.

If they're non-binary, why would you go after the club where you feel safe at? Why would you do that to a community where you are welcomed in if you are a non-binary?

CAMEROTA: Excellent question. Obviously, all if this will have to be answered. Natalie, thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate it. And our condolences to you.

BINGHAM: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Now I want to bring in presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, author of the new book "Silent Spring Revolution." We also have CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson and "Vanity Fair" special correspondent Molly Jong-Fast. Great to have all of you, guys, but just a horrible topic. And Doug, I mean, this is such a sign of our times. This is what we live in. She has been connected to two mass shootings --


CAMEROTA: -- in clubs. I mean, it's becoming not omnipresent but a few degrees separate for many, many people.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: You know, only LGBTQ national historic park is Stonewall in New York City, and that happened in the late 60s, 70s because back then, gay people would congregate at one spot. In those days, the police would come in or others would just beat and kill people that were different.

Now, thank goodness, we're able to teach LGBTQ history in our schools, but that congregation point now puts some of these nightclubs as a bullseye like the Pulse in Florida, like Club Q in Colorado Springs. So, what do we do about that? That's going to take a lot more layers of security.


This never should have happened, though. When you have somebody loaded up like that who did bomb threats a year before and is now wandering around with guns and ammo, I do think this was a red flag law missed and we're going to have to have increased security.

But we know one thing about brave LGBTQ community, that they're not giving up. They're going to fight for their lifestyle. It has been too many decades to get equality in this country.

And then also, Alisyn, look around the world at how much bigotry there is in countries where if you're different, you are not allowed to even speak up and you will be killed.

CAMEROTA: We've seen that in the World Cup right now.

BRINKLEY: The World Cup right now.

CAMEROTA: Joey, a lot to talk to you about. Obviously, what good are red flag laws if they can't -- if they don't keep guns out of the shooter's hands? We see this all the time. I mean, there's just too many loopholes. It's not working.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, it's a problem, Alisyn, for the following reason. Obviously, you have the law so that police can act in a way that's not against your constitutional rights. We talk about the Second amendment which people hold dear and they should.

But the reality is that if there's something amiss with you, these red flag laws give the opportunity of law enforcement to take them away even on a temporary basis until the issue is resolved.

Here, we had an issue that he had, showing up, right, to his mom's house, apparently, with a bomb, having a gun. Obviously, right, that should've been enacted. The red flag laws to take him away. The question remains, would he have gotten back? Would he have the weapons at this time? Would he have been able to do it?

But I think the larger issue is that if you have a law, you have to enforce it, you have to do something about it, and it has to deter other people not to do it.

CAMEROTA: One more thing, Joey, just because this is what the lawyers announced. We just got the word that from now on, in court documents and in court, that the suspect is non-binary or considers himself non- binary and would like to go by they/them pronouns, which you heard our last guest finds that to be questionable.

JACKSON: And convenient. Look, the reality is that perhaps that's the case, perhaps it's not, right? As we move forward, we will learn more. I know we're learning as to issues in the past in --

CAMEROTA: Could that be maybe attorney move?

JACKSON: It could be, but like anything else, Alisyn, it has to have basis. You could say anything but ultimately, when you weigh it out and you evaluate the background, the history, the circumstances, those facts will determine whether this is just a ploy or whether or not it's credible.

CAMEROTA: Molly, one more thing. We've also learned today that this suspect, seven years ago, in 2015, was the target of online bullying. And apparently, there was a parody website set up that made fun of his looks and made fun of him not having money. His grandmother was trying to raise money for him publicly to go on a class trip, and they were mocking him for it.

No surprise. I mean, we have seen this before. People who feel alienated and publicly humiliated sometimes resort to things like this.

MOLLY JONG-FAST, PODCAST HOST, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT FOR VANITY FAIR: I mean, that's true, but then it was sort of the job for him not to get an AR-15, right? And then that's, you know, a lot of people avoid when they are young, and they don't kill, you know, five people.

And I think ultimately, this was like a failure of gun laws, right? There was a red flag law. They didn't pursue it because it was a sanctuary city for the Second Amendment, which is, you know, kind of nuts.

And then I also think that ultimately, you know, he had shown violence towards his mother and a lot of these people have, you know, kind of misogyny, domestic violence. You know, so many of the shootings can be stopped if people -- you know, if these things are taken seriously. So, I do think that there were a lot of avenues to stop this person.

But I also want to say that you are seeing a Republican Party that is targeting, you know, a lot of drag queens and LGBTQ. This is not an accident, right? There is a lot of targeting and there's a lot of, you know, really -- it's the moment now where we all need to stand with the LGBTQ community and be for them. You know, they need to be safe just like the rest of us.

CAMEROTA: Friends, thank you very much. Really appreciate all of your perspectives.

So, it has been more than a week and there are no suspects identified, no arrests in the brutal stabbing of those four college students in Idaho. But there are some new developments tonight. We have that for you next.




CAMEROTA: Police in Idaho claim they're making progress in their investigation into the murders of four University of Idaho students more than a week ago. They say they've investigated hundreds of leads and interviewed more than 90 people. But so far, no arrest has been made. And police say they cannot share details of the case for fear of compromising the investigation.

We're back again with Joey Jackson, and we're also joined by Neill Franklin, a former Maryland State police officer, and Mary Ellen O'Toole, a retired FBI profiler. Great to have all of you.

So, Neill, there is a relatively small police department there. They have not had a murder in that town in seven years. They are not obviously well versed in a murder like this. What's the first thing that they should have done? What are you seeing in terms of opportunities missed here?

NEILL FRANKLIN, FORMER MARYLAND STATE POLICE OFFICER: Well, so, like you said, small police department. I think they have around 36 members in their police department. You also spoke to the lack of experience, lack of good thing, lack of homicides in their city. But not just their city, the entire county, for the past couple years, there have not been any homicides.


So, one of the first things they should have done, recognizing that they may not have the talent that they need, the skill sets that they need with their investigators, is to reach out to a larger police department. Maybe Boise, maybe a larger city that has dealt with homicides, maybe their state police.

I think even the FBI, if you asked the FBI, I think they would even lend a hand. Obviously, they won't take over the case, but they would give you some resources if you need them because a lot of late work needs to be done, a lot of interviews need to be done. And one of the very first things, put your pride aside and ask for help.

CAMEROTA: Mary Ellen, we've been talking about the mindset mentality of this killer, and you say it is very high-risk behavior, what this killer did. So, what do you mean by that? JONG-FAST: Well, the offender goes into an occupied building when

there are people there sleeping. There is at least one male. This offender could have been overcome. He wouldn't necessarily know if these victims had guns themselves, weapons themselves. He just wouldn't have necessarily had all the information about what is going on inside that house although I do think that, based on what I've heard so far, that he's probably had experience inside that house.

But when you go inside somebody's home in the middle of the night when people are in the house --

CAMEROTA: And a dog, by the way.

JONG-FAST: Yes. Very high risk but we know that there are offenders out there who add that high-risk element to their crimes even though it seems very stupid from our vantage point. The reason they do it is it makes the crime more enjoyable. But to be able to do that suggests to me that this offender or offenders has prior experience being in people's homes.


JONG-FAST: And I think that's a critical part of his personality.

CAMEROTA: That is interesting. Joey, how is this crime going to be solved?

JACKSON: I think a number of ways. I think the first thing they will do is look at the timeline, right, with respect to where everyone was at the time, right, the people who were the unfortunate dissidents in this particular case. I think they will track that down to specifically when they got home, what they did when they got home.

Surveillance, remember, is a very big thing, Alisyn, relating to where you are. They were seen prior to that at some food place getting food. I think there will be significant DNA evidence that is at the location. I think that is going to be very helpful to the police. Remember, there are prints and everything else. Not only DNA but fingerprints. There are footprints. There are other things that they will do.

I think they will continue with their interviews. And I think it's not too late to bring in the FBI. I think it's not too late to deal with the state police. I think it's not too late to continue the interviews with other people who know whether there was a motivation, what happened, and whether, as the mayor said, it was a crime of passion, Alisyn, or something else.

CAMEROTA: Mary Ellen, not to get too grizzly, but you also think this will be solved through DNA because to stab four people is such a bloody crime scene and it does leave, as you are describing, evidence from the killer at the crime scene.

JONG-FAST: It would. The offender was not evidence conscious. They would've left a lot of evidence at the scene. But in particular, when you stab someone, blood is slippery and your hand can slip down over the blade. And when that happens, you cut yourself. And when that happens, you bleed and that goes on the carpet, it goes on the bed. So, they will be collecting all of that and doing an analysis in order to determine if the offender's DNA is left at the scene.

This is going to be a forensic case. But when you are not evidence conscious, you don't go in and attempt to clean up. There's going to be a lot of evidence for them to analyze.

CAMEROTA: Neill, it's just amazing that they have not been able to, I think, put the pieces together yet. If this is a repeat offender, and I'm not sure how you kill four people for the first time if you haven't done any violence before, how they are not already connecting some of the DNA.

FRANKLIN: Well, you know, what you just said about repeat offender, so one of the things is that, again, it takes a lot of manpower and many hours to start checking the records of people, checking those that you have in your area who may have histories of such violence. And again, collecting that DNA, you've got to have the resources to do that. You cannot screw this up. So, you've got to protect the scene.

I understand that a lot of -- that some people came over to the house before the police got there. So, you really have to do a good job, you got to have to have the right text on the scene, you got to have the right resources, you got to have the right legs, and you cannot screw this up. You've got to do it as soon as possible. You don't want to lose any evidence.


But, as Mary Ellen said, there is going to be a lot of DNA there from both the victims and hopefully from the suspect.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, let's hope that they can connect those dots very quickly. Mary Ellen, Neill, Joey, thank you all very much.

Now to this, today is the 59th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Nearly six decades later, why thousands of documents about his murder still being withheld from the American public? We are going to get some answers next.


CAMEROTA: Fifty-nine years ago today, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated as he rode in a motorcade through Dealey Plaza in downtown Dallas.


But decades after that national tragedy, documents about the assassination are still locked away, spinning (ph) countless conspiracy theories.

Douglas Brinkley, Joey Jackson, and Molly Jong-Fast are all back with us. Douglas, why -- so there are 10,000 documents that are either withheld entirely or partially redacted that have not been released. Why haven't they been released yet?

BRINKLEY: In 1992, we created the John F. Kennedy assassination commission. They should all be released by now. It was mandated that it would be. But it is up to presidential discretion. Donald Trump, when he ran for president, made a big deal about -- remember when he has tried to frame Ted Cruz for being part of --

CAMEROTA: His dad.

BRINKLEY: -- JFK, his dad, and we're going to open up everything. And alas, Donald Trump did not open up everything.

CAMEROTA: And by the way, when he was president, he also promised -- which makes it even more strange. Here is a tweet from October 21st, 2017. He says, subject to the receipt of further information, I will be allowing, as president, the long blocked and classified JFKL files to be opened.

Six days later, he says JFK files are carefully -- are being carefully released. In the end, there will be great transparency. It is my hope to get just about everything to the public -- exclamation point. The next day, he agreed not to release the records. Something happened. What happened on that day?

BRINKLEY: He got heat from the CIA, FBI, and DEA. There's a battle going on in our U.S. government, no matter who is president, between National Archives which is saying open this stuff up for transparency and presidents who do not want to be at war with CIA.

CAMEROTA: But what doesn't the CIA want us to see?

BRINKLEY: They claim that they don't want to see who agents are, where sources are abroad, supposedly some are still alive. It is kind of hard to believe these many decades later that would be their stance but they don't want to out people. And you don't want to be -- any sitting president doesn't want a war with their own CIA.

And hence, Biden now by December 15th has a deadline that he is going to have to decide whether he is opening up the rest. He might do another batch, but I'm sure there is going to be thousands of pages that we don't see, and all it does, as you know, Alisyn, is fuel conspiracy theories galore.

CAMEROTA: I don't blame conspiracy theorists on this one. I'm turning into one, Molly, because why does every president say, I'm going to do it, and then not do it after the CIA gets to them? I mean -- I think there is something in there.

JONG-FAST: Well, that's the problem, that's why they need to be released. And look, JFK has been -- you know, he's sort of the birth of this QAnon movement, was sort of based on a lot of anxiety and conspiracy theories and lack of information. So, the more that the government can release, the better for all of us, especially right now. But I do think it's clear there's some kind of internal war going on in government.

JACKSON: I mean, listen, Alisyn, if you have Trump in a court with Biden on this issue --


CAMEROTA: You have to ask some questions.

JACKSON: You do have to ask many questions. So, there has to be something perhaps in the neighborhood of national security which would prevent it. Doug, you mentioned the CIA, the Central Intelligence Agency, the FBI, the drug enforcement.

Whatever it is, obviously, this information, that is mission critical that they don't want to give us. And if they do, Alisyn, there are these redactions and blackout portions. So, I'm wondering, if they do release it, whether it would be so overly redacted as to not even really tell much.

CAMEROTA: Right, it would be ridiculous.

BRINKLEY: There is a fear of Lee Harvey Oswald, that he may have been on the CIA payroll at some point in previous times. So, the idea that there's been a demand and let's see what Oswald's taxes and things are, that's a big no that CIA, FBI want nothing to do with releasing this new Oswald information that scholars (INAUDIBLE) think are being hidden from the American public.

CAMEROTA: In your stellar historian mind, is there any way that there is a different narrative about this than what we've been told and that's why they don't want to release it?

BRINKLEY: Well, the FBI is still -- and CIA, but really, the FBI is worried about gangsters and looking at mob in the way that they create sources to get mob leaders. So, there is that concern.

And when you get FBI and CIA, who don't like each other a whole lot, agreeing don't release all of this JFK material, it would be incendiary, what will someday maybe happen is you will get just redacted that documents come out just black, you know, marked out so nobody can read for history. It's frustrating for people who are trying to get closer. Even the whole Warren (ph) commission files that were supposed to be (INAUDIBLE) public were not released.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that Joe Biden is going to release them, Molly?

JONG-FAST: I think it's unlikely, especially because there's also, I think, a lot of anxiety that there's some connection to organized crime or that there are organized crime informants that would be revealed.


So, I think that there is a worry that it is just going to open a lot of -- a lot more problems for the security --

CAMEROTA: Yeah, we would all love to see it. Thank you all very much. Okay, now, to this, travel expected to surge with Thanksgiving, of course, after the pandemic put a damper on things, you could say, for the last two years. So, will more people around the dinner table mean more fights with your angry uncle? How to handle holiday arguments. We have the four tips for you, next.




CAMEROTA: Millions of Americans are already traveling for the Thanksgiving holidays, but storm systems could end up causing headaches for many of us. Karen Maginnis is live in the CNN Weather Center for us. Karen, what should we all expect for Thanksgiving?

KAREN MAGINNIS, CNN INTERNATIONAL METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we've got a lot on our plate. No pun intended, but yes, there is a weather system that is pushing in across the Pacific Northwest. This is going to merge with another system across the South Central U.S., so a lot of people are going to be impacted by this.

It looks like Salt Lake City and Denver will be a little windy, maybe reduced visibility, thanks to the snowfall there. And it looks like late into the next couple of days, we could see a Santa Ana (ph) event.

All right, I talked about kind of gathering some strength across the South Central U.S. as the weather system kind of gets its act together and lots of cold air on the backside of this. Well, that area of low pressure with this accompanying frontal system is going to produce some icy mix across the panhandle of Texas, also extending over to places in eastern sections of New Mexico. So, Amarillo, midland, Odessa, also into Roswell, this is where we could see the messy weather.

And we are not finished yet, because guess what, as you are trying to make your way back home, then it becomes the northeast and New England. But in the meantime, Thanksgiving Day, looks like a pretty nice forecast.

In New York City, temperatures in the 50s. It doesn't look like wind is going to be a problem there as well. For Dallas, some rainfall expected there. For Houston, about 73. Denver, you are going to be cold and just about 40 degrees. Los Angeles, 75, that sounds pretty nice. For Atlanta, a few clouds here and there at 62. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Fantastic. Karen, thank you very much. I want to bring back our panel. We have Doug Brinkley, Joey Jackson, and Molly Jong-Fast. How excited are we for Thanksgiving, guys? Are you guys excited?

BRINKLEY: I am, really.

JONG-FAST: I really am, too.

CAMEROTA: Because you put it on hold for two years?

BRINKLEY: We did. And now, we are having people come over. We are really excited for it all. I've been traveling on a book tour. I can't wait to get on the plane tomorrow. I've heard that the airlines are operating pretty well right now better than ever. So, I get home and then let the party begin.

CAMEROTA: That is so great. I feel the same way. I love Thanksgiving. I love the meal. I love that whole day.

JACKSON: The gathering.

CAMEROTA: What are you doing for Thanksgiving?

JACKSON: I'll be at my brother's house. It will be a festive occasion. It'll be unbelievable. And I want to answer the question about the arguments around the table.

CAMEROTA: Okay, we'll get to that.


CAMEROTA: I'm going to tell you what to do. Molly, will there be arguments around your table?


CAMEROTA: Because you guys all feel the same way?

JONG-FAST: Fantastic.


JONG-FAST: But if there was, I would humor my relatives because --

CAMEROTA: You would?


CAMEROTA: I'm so interested to hear that because that's one of the things that you are supposed to do.


CAMEROTA: And so, here is, according to Axios, holiday disagreements, how to disagree at the dinner table, because now, everyone is going to be back after two years, and Donald Trump is running for president again, so there may be some arguments.

So, number one, a little humility goes a long way, which I think is also akin to what you are saying, the sort of self-deprecating, inject humor somehow.

JONG-FAST: Yeah, or agree to disagree. You know, we can feel differently but have a very nice Thanksgiving. CAMEROTA: Molly, it's very interesting that you say that, because

that's number two, agree to disagree from the start. But I don't understand. Explain to me how you do that because it's all well and good until somebody drops some, like, miss truth bomb (ph) on the table. And you know it was Antifa.


CAMEROTA: And you're like, well, I agree to disagree. No, you can't, you know.

JONG-FAST: I think the idea is that you are probably not going to change hearts and minds. And there are some people you might, but a lot of people you won't. So, with those people who you know are really dug in, you could just say, you know, we can agree that this was not Antifa or we can agree that you think it was and I know facts. You know, go from there.

BRINKLEY: I agree with you 100%.


BRINKLEY: I think we've had such a national food fight neo-civil war, whatever you want to call it. Give it a break. If you have young kids, let them see that the grown-ups can be civil. And put that stuff aside. It can be picked up on Friday and Saturday.

But on Thanksgiving, when you're eating and it's a blessing, we are thinking about our beautiful country, we need to think about our troops abroad. Be in a more prayerful, spiritual, and fun mood than getting back into this nasty slug fest that we are living in our political landscape.

CAMEROTA: Totally agree. And obviously, gratitude goes a long way.

JACKSON: I have a metaphor. My metaphor is, as I do, yes, dear, you're absolutely right, totally a hunted percent --


JACKSON: -- and it's over.

CAMEROTA: That's happy wife, happy life. That's a different motto.

JACKSON: But I convert it, right, to just the table in general. Hundred percent, you're absolutely right, God bless you, it's over.

CAMEROTA: You have all given us great advice. Thank you very much. Have a great Thanksgiving, guys. We will be right back.



CAMEROTA: We have breaking news out of Virginia tonight, and I am sorry to have to report that law enforcement in Chesapeake, Virginia is responding to a shooting at a Walmart. As of now, we are told there are multiple fatalities and injuries. Chesapeake Police, the public information officer there, Leo Kosinski, has just told CNN that there are multiple fatalities and that they are still going through the building at Walmart.

We are still joined by Juliette Kayyem, Neill Franklin, and Joey Jackson. Well, Joey, here we are again. Here we go again.


There is nothing -- it's impossible to be surprised anymore when we have to report on a mass shooting, but it's still just as sickening, of course, as we prepare for the Thanksgiving week.

JACKSON: And also, Alisyn, I'm so tired of saying it's on the heels of and on the heels of and on the heels of something else that happened. We just saw even, you know, with the three young men and football players in Virginia, that just happened recently, you know, what do you say about this? And if you talk about the issue of gun control, goodness, forbid, that's not something we should ever address.

There is just something that we have to get our arms around as it relates to these mass shootings. Something is amiss. I don't know whether it's people, whether it's the angriness, whether it's the climate, but I'm just so tired of talking about it and nothing being done about it so that we can talk about it again and again and again.

CAMEROTA: We all feel that way. Whether it's, as you say, a college, whether it's at UVA, whether it's a church, Juliette, whether it's a synagogue --


CAMEROTA: -- whether it's a Walmart or a supermarket or a nightclub or a school, we talk about it every week.

KAYYEM: Yeah, and I was on an hour ago on a different one. I mean, you know, going to bed when this happens. So, this is still active. Walmart, as we know, I think this is a -- Walmart is huge. So, we actually don't know likely what the number is, we don't know if it's someone who work there or someone who entered, but multiple fatalities and then others injured.

You know, this is clearly a mass shooting event yet another one and we just simply don't know if the motive was internal because the people knew each other or an external threat. So, we'll get the information now. The police will probably have, unfortunately, a larger number than even the one that we're hearing, just given the size of this Walmart.

This is consistent with what we are talking about earlier, that each of these situations is different. People's capacity to respond is so limited. If you can leave the Walmart, leave the Walmart. We just don't know what's happening inside either particular room or the area. And again, we cannot say it enough that these are not rational conversations to be having in a country that should be able to solve a problem like this.

CAMEROTA: Neill, I mean, we just don't have that many details right now, but it sounds bad. Again, we are just hearing from law enforcement in Chesapeake, Virginia that there was a shooting at Walmart. Tuesday night? I mean, you know, look, people are shopping. It is close to midnight, obviously, on the East Coast, but we don't know exactly what time this happened, but they are reporting multiple fatalities.

FRANKLIN: Yeah, Alisyn. And again, two days before Thanksgiving, we know people were out shopping. This is a huge Walmart. I'm very familiar with Chesapeake, Virginia. It's a heavily-populated area. You have a lot of military personnel there. It's in the Norfolk area.

And, you know, I assume, I don't know for sure, but I assume there were a lot of people in this Walmart. So, it is going to take a while for the police to go through this entire store. Unfortunately, I think there are going to be a lot of injuries. We already know that there are some fatalities.

But as Joey said, here we go again on the heels of another. And we have to do something. We just cannot complain about it. When I say we, I'm talking about our legislators, I'm talking about Congress. They have got to do something. We need action. We need something of substance.

CAMEROTA: We all agree. We all agree and we all agree every time. And yet, something always gets in the way, Joey, of them taking really significant action in terms of how to stop this. I don't know what the solution is, but I know that -- I feel your fatigue, I feel all the viewers' fatigue in terms of how many -- I mean, we've just accepted that this is our normal way of living here?

JACKSON: I hate to say it, but that's what it seems like, Alisyn, when you have mass events like this and you laid it out, like all the venues that it occurs, and what happens? It just continues to happen. And then you have the parties get together and they say, we are going to do something, and never mind. Things don't get done.

And so, I just do not know what the answer is. I wish I did know. But it just seems, you know, so random and so repeated. And how do we get our hands around this? How do we prevent it? How do we do something about it so that another person is not dead or multiple people are not dead?

CAMEROTA: If you are just joining us, again, we do have breaking news, law enforcement in Chesapeake, Virginia is responding to a shooting at a Walmart. As of now, we're told there are multiple fatalities. We don't know an exact number and injuries. This comes from the Chesapeake public information officer. Obviously, we will bring you more when we get it.

Juliettey, I am out of questions. I don't know what more we can say, as you and I have talked about so often.


KAYYEM: Yeah. So, and unfortunately, we are in the middle of this. We want to be super careful about the reporting right now. But what we do know is that the primary focus right now is family unification. As we all have been saying, it's shopping Tuesday night. People really start cooking tomorrow. It is a late-night open store. And so, there are lots of people there whose family members do not know where they are.

So, I hate to be tactical about this and not as emotional as we all are, but right now it's going to be -- the focus right now is on family unification because you're going to have to identify who the victims are and then notify the families.

So, we are looking at a couple of hours into the night until we know exactly how many, and the people who survived can meet up with their families and those who did not have to be identified. We are talking moments, this has been happening. So, the identification of the victims is primary at the stage.

Neill, Juliette, Joey, it's awful to think about this, two days before Thanksgiving. I appreciate being with you guys. Obviously, we will stay on this. CNN is staying on this breaking news. We will bring you all the new developments. We are going to take a quick break while we continue to gather our reporting on what is happening tonight at this Walmart that you now see on your screen in Chesapeake, Virginia. Our live coverage of this breaking news will pick up in just a moment.