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Six People Shot To Death In Virginia Walmart; No Suspects Have Been Named Or Arrested In Idaho Killings; Walker And Warnock Set For A Runoff In Two Weeks; Study Suggests Workout Intensity Can Impact Your Thanksgiving Appetite; Man Explains Connection With RealDoll. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 23, 2022 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: More than 600 mass shooting in the United States so far just this year. This is part of an epidemic that America cannot seem to solve.

But we are talking about solutions tonight. But first, let's talk about the crimes and the latest. We want to go to CNN's Dianne Gallagher. She's live for us in Chesapeake, Virginia. We also have CNN's Nick Watt who is in Colorado Springs for us. So, Diane, tell us what you've learned about the six people who were killed last night.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Alisyn. Look, this is just a little more than 24 hours ago at that Walmart that you see behind me, that those six lives were stolen by a gunman at their workplace. The victims' range in age, from 16 to 70 years old, and according to Walmart, they all worked for the company: Lorenzo Gamble, Brian Pandleton, Kellie Pyle, Randall Blevins, Tyneka Johnson, and a 16-year-old male who the city says they are not releasing his name or his photo because he is a minor.

And look, that's not counting the wounded who went to the hospital and the emotional damages, the trauma for the survivors of this week. We've spoken to many of them over the past 24 hours. What they saw, the images they can't get out of their heads, like with this young woman experienced on her just her fifth day working at this Walmart. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSIE WILCZEWSKI, WOMAN EMPLOYEE WHO WAS IN BREAK ROOM WHEN SHOOTER OPENED FIRE: (INAUDIBLE) underneath of the table, and I'm shaking. I probably look like a chihuahua at that point. And he just had the gun up to my forehead. And it was just really hard. He told me to go home. And he took the gun away from my forehead. He was aiming it at the ceiling. He said, just go home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It's just awful. It's just awful to hear about that. And tell us what we do know about the shooter, because what I've read, it sounds like he was really exhibiting lots of signs that were worrisome to his coworkers.

GALLAGHER: So, Alisyn, I think in retrospect perhaps, but when I talked to the people here about 31-year-old Andre Bing who was, according to Walmart, the overnight team lead, kind of a supervisor position, but when I talk to the employees, they kind of referred to him like a manager here. They saw him -- he'd work for Walmart since 2010, so was a longtime employee.

Look, they talked about him being difficult to work with. Some of them described him as having odd or even threatening interactions. They said that he seemed to relish in the position that he had, that power that he had over them. It was something that he seemed to enjoy kind of throwing around. They called him sometimes mean or condescending.

But every person with whom I spoke with said that in no way, shape or form did they ever think that he was the type of person who had come in and do this, did they ever think that it was going to result in a mass shooting. They described him as paranoid, afraid that the government was watching or controlling him.

He didn't like to be recorded by cellphones. There is some cellphone footage that a former coworker of his had from back in 2016. She notes that when he realizes that he's being recorded, he tries to move out of the scene there. And so, they described him as strange, difficult to work with, a loner even.

But Alisyn, every person, even those who watch this happen, say that they are absolutely shell-shocked that he came in there and did what police say that he did with a handgun and several magazines, they say, that he was armed with. They are still trying to determine a motive here.

And look, I can tell you that people here in Chesapeake are still trying to gather their thoughts and figure out what they're going to do. This is, of course, Thanksgiving eve. It's usually a very busy day at places like Walmart. It has been closed. These employees don't know what to do. These survivors don't know what to do. These families are trying to figure how to go with their lives now.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, of course, understood, because even when somebody acts that strangely, it is unimaginable, what he did. So, Nick, to you, the suspect in the Colorado Springs club shooting appeared in court for the first time today. Tell us about that.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you know, Alisyn, before I talk about that person, I just want to talk about a little bit of resilience and positivity here. Club Q where the shooting took place, they always hold a Thanksgiving lunch because that club was a real community hub in the small city for the small LGBTQ community. They are going to have Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow but in a different location, of course, because their club is a crime scene.

[23:04:58]

The alleged shooter is in that jail behind me for this Thanksgiving and possibly many more. As you mentioned, first appearance in court today. Said very little. Sat the whole time, slumped, orange jumpsuit. Bruises all over the forehead and face, because remember, this shooter was taken down during the rampage. A young naval officer and a trans woman kicked the suspect repeatedly in the head to stop him creating, causing any more havoc.

So, I think we've got a little bit of video that we can show you of this slurring, short appearance. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Could the defendant please state his name?

ANDERSON ALDRICH, CLUB Q SHOOTING SUSPECT: Anderson Aldrich.

UNKNOWN: Anderson Aldrich, did you watch the video concerning your constitutional rights in this case?

ALDRICH: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Do you have any questions about those rights?

ALDRICH: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: And that was it from the suspect, the defendant. The lawyers then had a conversation with the judge about the next appearance, scheduled right now for December 6th, so nearly two weeks away, and that's when we expect to get the official charges. Right now, there are charges on the arrest warrant, five counts of first-degree murder, and five bias-related crimes.

One little note here, which I know, Alisyn, you've been talking about. The lawyers for this defendant say that the defendant identifies as non-binary. You'll notice the judge did not use they/them pronouns in that hearing.

You know, we also spoke today with a neighbor of the suspect, a good friend of the suspect, they bonded over video games, played four hours together, and this young man, Xavier Crest (ph), told me that he had never once heard the suspect ever mention anything about being non- binary in the past. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, I think you're asking all the right questions, Nick, and I appreciate that, because some people have expressed skepticism as to whether or not it's a legal ploy but, obviously, we will find out more about that. Diane, Nick, thank you both.

I want to bring in now Democratic Virginia State Senator and President Pro Tempore Louise Lucas. Senator, thank you so much for being here. We're so sorry about what's happening in Virginia and in your district and what everybody there has had to endure. What's the answer? What's the answer to stopping things like what happened at Walmart?

L. LOUISE LUCAS, PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE OF VIRGINIA: Well, you know, I've said several times over the last 24 hours, the only thing that's going to stop gun violence is legislators coming up with common sense, gun violence prevention program that's going to bring all of this to a stop.

But the first thing that I thought needed to happen is for us to develop a critical mass of people around this issue so that they can start impressing upon the legislators the need to do this because people are just so tired of these mass shootings.

As a matter of fact, I took it upon myself to go out to three different shopping malls today just to kind of get a sense of what people were feeling and what they were thinking. First, they were in shock because they just, first of all, couldn't believe that it had hit this close to home.

And then the next thing is, now, today, people are feeling grief and afraid and wondering, who's next mass shooter? Is it someone near them? Is it someone they know? And so, now, people are just afraid to even be out in public places because they never know where the next mass shooting is going to occur.

I say again and again and again, the only thing that's going to bring us to a point that we're going to bring an end to this mass shooting is to do like other countries are doing and get these guns out of the hands of people who do not need to have them.

CAMEROTA: And state senator, do you think that you have willing partners in Virginia to do this? And I'm asking because when we heard from the governor today, he was saying that he would like to, I think, invest more resources in mental health. I'm sure that's welcome in Virginia. I'm sure it would be welcome in every state. There aren't enough beds and enough staff.

LUCAS: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: And then the lieutenant governor also -- I believe that she campaigned holding a weapon of war. And she --

LUCAS: That's correct.

CAMEROTA: -- had a tweet saying, beautiful day, range day. Marines know how to use guns and I won't ever support a red flag law! Second Amendment says "shall not be infringed" #SemperFi.

So, do you think that you have partners?

LUCAS: I think it's absolutely ludicrous because people are -- you have all these people out there who are imitating folks like the governor, the lieutenant governor.

[23:10:02]

And it sends a really, really bad message because people are being, I think, motivated by hate speech and all of the proliferation of guns. But if we're not going to talk about this now after all these mass shootings that we've had, several here in Virginia, if we're not going to talk about it now, then when? People are dying. Families are suffering. Our community is traumatized.

We have got to bring an end to gun violence and the only way to do that is with common sense gun legislation. And I'm thinking now that the critical mass that we've been looking for is developing just like around George Floyd where people took to the streets and marched.

I think people are at the point where they're going to march somewhere to make sure that legislators understand that they're sick and tired of this, they're not going put up with it anymore. And I think a lot of this is going to be felt at the polls and subsequent elections because people understand now that we have got to elect people who care about whether or not our constituents live or die. We've got to come up.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. Senator Louise Lucas, thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate you taking the time right before Thanksgiving to talk to us about this.

LUCAS: Thank you. My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: Here with us now, we have Molly Jong-Fast, special correspondent for "Vanity Fair," and CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali. CNN senior political analysts Ron Brownstein is here. And CNN political commentator Scott Jennings is back with us.

Molly, your thoughts?

MOLLY JONG-FAST, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, VANITY FAIR: We have -- this is a uniquely American problem because we are a country that refuses to regulate guns. And so, we have the shootings and we have them everywhere. We have them in schools, we have them in restaurants, we have them in malls, we have them in bars. And it's happening because we refuse to regulate guns.

And I think that it's so craven of Republicans to say this is a mental health problem. Sure, it's a mental health problem. It's not an either or. We are happy for you to fund mental health, that's great, and then also have sensible gun laws. We don't have to live like this.

And, you know, just like we saw in these midterms, most Americans don't want to live like this.

CAMEROTA: You know what's really affecting my mental health poorly? Mass shootings. That's part of why we have a bad mental health problem. Ron, you know, you're a student, obviously, of trends in America and history, and now how are we at this point?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This is, I think, a crisis of majority rule. I think there is no way that we will ever address the gun problem without addressing the ways in which the filibuster combined with the two senators per state rule basically undermines majority rule.

Alisyn, if you look at the 20 states that have the most -- the highest gun ownership per capita, they send 32 Republican senators to Washington out of those 20 states. If you go to the 20 states that have the smallest gun ownership per capita, they send 32 Democratic senators. So equal in the 2020. The difference is the 20 states with the fewest -- the smallest gun ownership per capita have about 125 million more people than the 20 states with the most gun ownership.

And so, basically what we're seeing on guns is that it is perhaps the premiere example of how the rules empower a small number of sparsely populated, predominantly white rural states that have an outsized influence on national politics (ph).

There is majority support in the country about the ties (ph) you can get in a democracy for most of the steps that people want to take, either red flag laws, universal background checks, ban on assault weapons, ban on high-capacity magazines.

Even a majority of Republicans who don't own guns say they support those ideas, but they simply cannot advance through the Senate, so long as Republicans in the Senate believe they cannot cross the republican -- one constituency, the Republicans who own guns.

CAMEROTA: Scott, because you are, you know, our voice of what Republicans are thinking, so, the latest Pew polls that we have in terms of background checks, I mean, runs right. The vast majority of Americans support strengthening background checks. In terms of banning high-capacity magazines, again, majority of Americans support banning high-capacity magazines. So, why is this so stuck in Congress?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDNET TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, because the constituents of the people who represent them don't want it. I mean --

CAMEROTA: But they do. A majority of Americans do want it.

JENNINGS: Majority of Americans, but these people represent specific states and districts and constituencies. And so, that's ultimately, you know, one thing that representative government gives you. They don't go there to represent the country at large. They go there to represent the people who elect them. So, that's number one.

Number two, I would remind you all that we did just pass a pretty broad gun violence response package just this last year in a bipartisan way, passed the House and the Senate, and everybody was pretty happy about it at the time.

[23:15:05]

I mean, a lot of the things that are being discussed right now, looking at this Walmart situation that we've been discussing tonight, I'm trying to figure out, wouldn't have stopped this particular case.

And I keep coming back to -- the gun debate is one thing, the policy debate is one thing, but no one seems to want to talk about one of the threads that runs through all these shootings, and that's what's going on in these people's lives, this commonality of broken homes, violent homes, drug addiction? It goes on and on and on.

It has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with how these people turn out in the course of their lives. And so, I think as we're having the gun debate, I think we got to have that debate as well because I think they go together.

CAMEROTA: I hear you. I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with guns, because when a deranged person doesn't have a gun, they don't go on a mass shooting. So, I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with guns. But I hear you, Scott, and I'm not disagreeing that obviously there's a crisis in people's homes and there is a mental health crisis and all that stuff. But the nexus is when they get a gun. That's when the violence happens.

But hold that thought because Tim, our historian, give us your thoughts on this.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Something happened in the 1990s, after the 1990s, that has made -- the argument that Scott made is a totally fair argument. He's absolutely right. Those members of Congress are representing what their constituents seem to want. But in the 1990s, American police officers wanted gun control. American police officers made the argument, we are outgunned by the gangs.

CAMEROTA: And they still say that, by the way.

NAFTALI: But they don't -- the fraternal order of police doesn't say it and police unions don't say it. And this is the challenge I think -- Scott, I'm sorry to stop to you, but I'm going to say it to you -- the challenge is, we don't have this conversation, we don't talk about this nexus.

Molly said it's not an either or. Absolutely not. But the problem is that the response, I have to say, from the republican side is, we don't want to talk about this, we only want to talk about this as mental health, nothing else.

When Congress controlled -- when the Republicans controlled Congress, they wouldn't even allow a study of gun violence in this country. They wouldn't spend the money to get data. Six hundred and ninety mass shootings last year. There is no country on earth that has that. Why should we be exceptional in the amount of gun violence we have? This year, we have 609 so far. We may actually get more than last year.

CAMEROTA: Yeah.

NAFTALI: This is an epidemic.

CAMEROTA: Let me let Scott respond. Scott, why are Republicans uncomfortable about talking about the gun aspect of this epidemic?

JENNINGS: Well, Republicans, generally, and this is a long-held principle of the Republican Party, is that we're defenders of the Second Amendment. We believe in the constitutional rights that flow from --

CAMEROTA: But it's not absolute.

JENNINGS: -- the founding document of this country. And so, that is generally one of the longest-held principles of this party. It's where a lot of legislators think that they have a responsibility to defend. And by the way, their constituents expect them to defend it. It doesn't mean you can make policy changes or invest in things. In fact, we just did. Republicans voted for some of these things that just happened.

CAMEROTA: I know.

JENNINGS: There is a fundamental constitutional issue that you're bumping up against. You can't just flippantly say --

CAMEROTA: Yeah.

JENNINGS: -- well, let's just do this at the other --

CAMEROTA: Of course.

JENNINGS: -- it's constitutional.

CAMEROTA: But it's not absolute. And guys, I mean, obviously -- look, we obviously need an hour special to talk about this because there's so much to say and we're up against a break right here. But thank you all very much for your perspectives. We'll be back to talk to some of you.

But first, we do want to move on to this because there is no suspect, there's no murder weapon, a week and a half after four college students were found brutally stabbed to death in Idaho. So, why aren't police closer to solving this, or are they? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Still no suspects in the shocking stabbing deaths of four college students in Idaho. Here's the Moscow, Idaho police captain today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER LANIER, CAPTAIN, MOSCOW POLICE DEPARTMENT: No suspects have been named or arrested, and we continue looking for what we believe to be a fixed blade knife used in the murders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I want to bring in now Alina Burroughs. She is the host of Investigation Discovery's "Crime Scene Confidential," which is now available to stream on Discovery Plus and CNN is a division of Warner Brothers Discovery. Thanks so much for being here.

So, can we talk about the DNA evidence here, because today, the police chief and the investigators went through the list, the long list of evidence that they've gathered. They've taken, you know, hundreds of photos. They have something like 103 pieces of individual evidence. And it's hard to imagine that in a crime scene this bloody and this intense that the killer wouldn't have left behind a lot of his own DNA.

So, how long will it take for them to maybe make a match, a DNA match, or for them to get to the bottom of that?

ALINA BURROUGHS, HOST, CRIME SCENE CONFIDENTIAL: It depends. So, DNA can take up to a few weeks to get back, and in a case of this high profile, they might be able to expedite that. Certainly, the hope in a case like this is, in a case this intently aggressive, the hope is that our suspect could have injured themselves in the process, and that is not uncommon in a case like this, especially with multiple victims in a stabbing.

We have a chance to see our suspect could have obtained some injuries and that would not be uncommon in the palm or in the interior finger areas that we would see some cuts.

[23:25:04]

So, the hope is those injuries could help to either identify a potential suspect or that suspect could've left DNA on the scene, as you suggest.

CAMEROTA: You are a crime scene investigator for 12 years. When you get to a scene like this, with these many victims and this much blood, where do you even begin? And by the way, one more detail here, is that the two surviving roommates first called their friends over to the house rather than police, I imagine for moral support or to help them. So, what has that done? What does that do the crime scene?

BURROUGHS: It's overwhelming. But because they live in the house, their DNA, their fingerprints can be expected to be there. So, it doesn't damage the house, it doesn't damage the crime scene really in any way.

What we're looking for and the basis of crime scene investigation is that we try to link victim, suspect in crime scene, and any evidence that can do that is what investigators are busy looking for right now. That's what the task at hand is. That's going to take them some time to do.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's all just hope that there is some DNA that can be found in that horrible scene and that they're able to do a match and find out who this person is. Alina, thank you very much. Really appreciate you being with us tonight.

BURROUGHS: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: So, the Senate runoff in Georgia is less than two weeks away, and we have new investigative reporting on the GOP candidate, Herschel Walker, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: In less than two weeks, we will see the rematch in Georgia between Herschel Walker and Raphael Warnock. Early voting starts this Saturday after the Georgia Supreme Court today rejected an emergency request from Republicans trying to block it.

Back with me, we have Molly Jong-Fast, Tim Naftali, Ron Brownstein, and Scott Jennings. Ron, do you think that early voting will make a difference in Georgia? Will we see a different result in Georgia than this neck and neck virtual tie that we had?

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, when you have a race that this close, everything makes a difference, Alisyn. I think the biggest issue in Georgia is even in the first round, there were clearly many Republicans who were hesitant about Herschel Walker's capacity, his morality, his ability to handle the job, but were willing to vote for him because they wanted a republican- controlled Senate. That is no longer a possibility.

And the question is whether those Republicans who kind of held their nose and voted for him, much less those Republicans who came out primarily to support Brian Kemp, are they going to feel motivated to come out a second time for a candidate about whom they have many doubts when control of the Senate is no longer really at stake?

CAMEROTA: What do you think, Scott?

JENNINGS: It's going to be a close race. I mean, Herschel is obviously fighting uphill with fewer votes in the first election. On this Saturday voting thing, I don't understand. I mean, instead of fighting against the Saturday voting, why don't you just focus all your efforts on getting people to vote when the polls are open? That would be my advice to the Republicans down there. I don't quite understand. Republicans are allowed to vote on Saturday, too. So, that would be where I would put my energy.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. And it's easier to vote on a day you don't have to work, by the way. I've noticed. So, there is also this new K-file reporting. So, CNN's investigative team has new reporting, Molly, that basically, Herschel Walker has been getting a tax break in Texas last year and this year for what he calls his primary residence, which is in Dallas, Texas, which is not in Georgia. Dallas, Texas is not in Georgia, I've learned.

And I'm just wondering if we think that that will affect the carpet, if a carpetbagger claim will affect him, because I think that people do think that that affected Dr. Oz in Pennsylvania.

JONG-FAST: Well, this is to quote Mark Meadows a candidate quality problem, right? These are these not vetted candidates just like -- you know, Oz was the same way. And, I mean, I think that he's not from there, right? Neither was Oz, Oz was from New Jersey. And people want to be represented by people who are from where they're from. So, I do think that's a problem. He's also been plagued with scandals and he's had a lot of -- there's a lot of stuff that has come out to this campaign. But he's ultimately -- I have to wonder if Republicans really want him in the Senate. I mean, he will be there for six years if he wins.

CAMEROTA: Well, they certainly want -- I think that they want and they would prefer to have a split Senate than to have a one person -- a one -- yeah, a person lead for Democrats.

NAFTALI: Absolutely. I mean, it will make much easier for them to take over the Senate in two years. By the way, the Democrats have a tough -- have a tough slate. They're going to have to fight a lot to retain control of the Senate two years from now. So, of course, Republicans would like to win the seat.

The problem for the Republicans is what Molly said, which is that Mitch McConnell predicted that a number of the Republicans that Donald Trump insisted on supporting were not going to make it.

And, you know, Herschel Walker has either violated the law of Georgia or the law of Texas, but he's actually been a resident of two places simultaneously. And so, he's got a problem. It's not just optics. He's actually got a -- he's got a legal problem.

I think the big question for me is Brian Kemp. That's what I'm watching. Does Brian Kemp throw his machine behind Herschel Walker or not?

[23:35:03]

Herschel Walker doesn't have a machine. Reverend Warnock has a machine. And the question is turnout. I don't know. Does Brian Kemp want to help Donald Trump's guy get elected?

CAMEROTA: He is, right? Isn't he -- Scott, isn't Brian Kemp campaigning with him?

JENNINGS: Yeah. Two weeks ago, it was reported that Brian Kemp was loaning his full turnout operation, his people, all of his technical know-how to the Republicans to try to turn out voters for the runoff.

Regarding Walker, by the way, on this residency issue, everybody knew he lived in Texas. This was talked about before. And, you know, to equate him to Dr. Oz, I mean, Dr. Oz was not a favorite son of Pennsylvania. Herschel Walker is a favorite son of Georgia. And everybody knew he had lived out of state and then come back to run for the Senate. This is a -- to me, it's a non-issue.

The bigger issue is what Ron raised earlier. Can you get Republicans back out one more time and can Brian Kemp convince a few more Republicans who voted for him to pull the lever this time? The reason to vote matters, by the way, is because of the filibuster. It doesn't mean control of the Senate. But if you get Democrats closer to changing the filibuster rules, that might matter to a lot of Republican voters. CAMEROTA: Okay, got it. Ron, last word, quickly?

BROWNSTEIN: Real quick? I mean, five states made Joe Biden president by switching from Trump in 2016 to Biden in '20. If Walker loses, we will have Trump-backed nominees who lost in all five of them this year for governor or senator, which is about as clear -- even with three quarters of the voters saying the economy was in bad shape, which is about as clear a statement as the Republican Party can get on Trump's ability to win back those places in two years.

CAMEROTA: Stick around because we have some election news to report. Yes, the midterms are still going on.

Okay, CNN now projects that Senator Lisa Murkowski will win reelection in Alaska. This is another loss for former President Donald Trump who endorsed Murkowski's Republican rival. Murkowski voted to convict Donald Trump in his second impeachment trial.

And also, in Alaska, CNN projects that Democratic Congresswoman Mary Peltola will win Alaska's at-large House seat, defeating Republican rivals Sarah Palin and Nick Begich. That's incredible, that we're still getting in projections and reporting on midterm results.

Okay, now, of course, it's a holiday, where stuffing will make its way around the table, and many of us will end up feeling, well, stuffed. So, what's the best way to limit Thanksgiving overindulgence? By the way, do even want to limit Thanksgiving overindulgence? We have a new study about exercise, which is counterintuitive, that we're going to share with you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Turkey, gravy, stuffing, cue the food coma, Thanksgiving is a day of delicious overindulgence. But there's a new study that suggests if you're trying to control calories tomorrow, moderate exercise makes you hungrier than intense exercise. It's counterintuitive. I also suggest no exercise, but that's a different story.

Let's talk about this with Molly Jong-Fast, Timothy Naftali, Ron Brownstein, and Scott Jennings. Molly, what is your Thanksgiving strategy or do you just succumb to the food coma?

JONG-FAST: I mean, I just try to be normal.

CAMEROTA: You're normal on Thanksgiving?

JONG-FAST: You know, I eat pie every day, you know.

CAMEROTA: Wait a minute. You eat pie every day?

JONG-FAST: Well, not every day, but I eat a lot of pie. So, when I'm presented with pie, I eat it. You know, I have a piece of it. I mean, I had some pie today already.

CAMEROTA: Did you really?

JONG-FAST: Yes.

CAMEROTA: This is a great life strategy, by the way. I wasn't expecting this, but I like where you're going with this life strategy. Okay, Scott, what's your Thanksgiving strategy? Do you just eat your face off? Do you try to control it? What do you do?

JENNINGS: I try to control it, but my main exercise strategy is to take a good long walk after the meal, because if you walk after you eat, it like controls your blood sugar, brings your insulin down. And so, my -- this exercise business after eating, after eating is where I'm going.

CAMEROTA: Okay, that's good, Scott. It is not what the study suggests. The study says it makes intuitive sense that exercise would make us hungry, and often it does. In many studies, people who work out moderately, for instance, walking, end up peekish afterwards and ready to nosh.

JENNINGS: I don't -- I'm not exercising before. I'm going after. I'm saying, as soon as I'm done eating, I'm going to walk like three miles and then pretend like it's all gone. That's what I'm doing.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Okay. I like that. I like that strategy. Ron, tell us about your Thanksgiving strategy.

BROWNSTEIN: I feel like I'm getting an explanation here because I am a pre-Thanksgiving meal. It's going to be 78 degrees out here.

CAMEROTA: You really rubbing it in.

BROWNSTEIN: I realize I'm grading on a curve here. I'm definitely a pre-meal exerciser. And now, I know why I (INAUDIBLE) myself into a coma every year.

CAMEROTA: That's it, because you're exercising. Stop exercising.

BROWNSTEIN: I feel like --

CAMEROTA: Yeah. Even -- you have to exercise in 10 --

BROWNSTEIN: Maybe I need the Molly strategy of more pie and less exercise. It would be even more successful Thanksgiving.

[23:45:00]

CAMEROTA: Can you ever go wrong with more pie? I mean, that, again, a life strategy. All right, Tim, tell us.

NAFTALI: Very simple. You choose between potatoes and stuffing. My mother makes a great stuffing. You choose the stuffing.

CAMEROTA: Why do you have to choose?

NAFTALI: Because then it all falls apart. At that point, I mean, you are more stuffed than the turkey was to begin with. And then you can't enjoy the pumpkin pie. I think you just make choices.

CAMEROTA: Well, Tim, that's a tough choice. In my Italian family, our tradition was we would have a pasta course before the turkey and stuffing and mashed potatoe meal. So, when I brought friends home from college, they just truly ate themselves into a food coma. I was like, rookies. They just slept the rest of the afternoon. So, pasta before the Thanksgiving meal. That's what professionals do.

BROWNSTEIN: That's hardcore (ph), Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That's right. Yes. Exactly. All right, guys, thank you very much and, of course, have a delicious pie day. Sounds wonderful. We'll be right back.

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[23:50:00]

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CAMEROTA: Lisa Ling is back with a special new season of "This is life," and this time, she takes us on more fascinating journeys. In the first episode, Lisa explores how the loneliness of the pandemic era changed the fabric of human relationships, and how some people are embracing nonhuman companions to fill their void. Here's a preview.

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LISA LING, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Tell me about when you first became aware of real doll.

UNKNOWN: Oh, gosh, it was a special on one of the cable channels. And I was like, that's interesting. Before I brought her home, I wasn't sure what to expect. I opened the box, and I just went, ah, like that. I was just so taken back. And I felt her say, my name is Tasha, take me home, take me with you.

LING: She really heavy?

UNKNOWN: She's about 60 pounds.

LING: You must carry her around a lot, right? Or she's usually pretty stationary?

UNKNOWN: She has a stand, or she sits in a chair like this.

LING: And you style her, you do your makeup, everything?

UNKNOWN: Yes. Yes, I do. A lot of YouTube videos.

LING: You've done a pretty good job. UNKNOWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Lisa Ling joins me now. Lisa, intriguing or was it disturbing? Wow! Wow! That was -- I mean, just tell us about this shooting. First of all, let me be crystal clear, that's his girlfriend, right?

LING: So, this is his nonhuman companion. You know, Alisyn, our show has always tried to look at issues through a very unique lens, and this episode is no different. I will say that this is not an episode about sex dolls. It is about the relationships that all of us are having with nonhuman entities.

Most of us are not in relationships with life-sized dulls, but we are in relationships with our devices and the things that we can do and experience on them. And the truth of the matter is, with AI and these algorithms, they actually know us in some cases better than we know ourselves. They know what makes us happy. They know what makes us sad or excited. They know what kinds of things we like to buy.

And in some ways, we're not even thinking for ourselves anymore. These devices, these algorithms, are controlling our behaviors and controlling our thoughts. When you see how far -- people are being pushed to extremes because the information they are receiving is, essentially, served on a silver platter, based on the data that has been collected on all of our habits.

So, while we may not be in relationships with life-sized dolls, we are in relationships with our devices and what's available on them these days.

CAMEROTA: I think that's a really interesting angle, and I think it's a really fascinating way to look at what relationship means. Can we get back to the doll for a second, because I am just fascinated by it, partly because she's actually a great girlfriend, because she -- you can project whatever you want on to her. She doesn't argue. She doesn't -- you know.

LING: Well, and Alisyn, there are people -- and this applies to the virtual world as well. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from severe social anxiety or have a debilitating fear of rejection. Whether it's a doll or it's virtual reality, you don't have to deal with those things. You are validated. You are loved no matter what you look like, no matter what you do, what you've done. You can specify whatever you are interested in, right?

And so, it's this constant stream of adoration, again, invalidation. And VR is getting so good that at a certain point, we may never have to leave the confines of our own bedroom. We can travel. We can go to sports games. We can go to concerts. We can even have sex. And again, we can design exactly what our partner is going to look like.

And so, will we ever need to leave the confines of our space? And what does that say? [23:55:00]

What are the implications on the future of human relationships when technology literally starts to take on a life of its own?

CAMEROTA: I think not good. That's my theory. I'm just going out on a limb. I think not good. I think that it's intriguing, really intriguing. You present so many thought-provoking ideas. But I just think that it is better to interact with humans.

But, whatever, I'll reserve judgment until I watch your special, and I watch "This is Life" and the whole series. Lisa, it's always great. You -- I mean, your specials are so intriguing. And I love even watching the teases for them, and they just make us want to tune in. So, this is --

LING: Thank you, Alisyn. It's always our objective to provoke thought.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and you do it well. So, this season of "This is Life with Lisa Ling" premieres Sunday night at 10 p.m. only on CNN. You can find every episode of "This is Life" because they're all great, from previous seasons, streaming on Discovery Plus. Great to see you, Lisa.

LING: Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: And thank you so much for watching. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, everyone. Our coverage continues now.

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