Return to Transcripts main page
Thousands Of Migrants Flood Border With Title 42 Set To Expire; Twitter Bans Journalists With No Explanation; CNN Interviews Pelosi And Schumer; Mom Of Slain Idaho Student Speaks Up; Thousands Of JFK Assassination Documents Released. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired December 15, 2022 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Welcome back to CNN TONIGHT. I'm Alisyn Camerota. You have no doubt heard that there is a problem at the U.S.'s southern border. Politicians are pointing fingers and it's hard to know what to believe. So, CNN's Ed Lavandera went to Mexico to see firsthand the thousands of migrants waiting to get into the U.S.
Officials say 2,500 people are crossing over into El Paso every day. And that number is expected to double next week when time runs out on a Trump era pandemic policy known as Title 42 which made it easier for officials to send asylum seekers back to Mexico.
And it's not just Texas dealing with a mess at the border. In Arizona, take a look at this. The Republican governor has issued an executive order to use shipping containers to fill gaps in the border wall with Mexico, as you can see there. And now, the Justice Department is suing that state to try to remove those containers.
And one Democratic mayor in Denver, more than 600 miles away from that El Paso border, is calling for a state of emergency tonight to deal with the hundreds of migrants who arrived in his city in just the past few days.
And joining us now is that Denver mayor, Michael Hancock. Mayor, thanks so much for being with us. Why is it a state of emergency in your city?
MAYOR MICHAEL HANCOCK, DENVER, COLORADO: Alisyn, first of all, glad to be with you. I issued the declaration of emergency earlier today because we have seen a steady stream really over the last six days. We've seen over 472 people come to our city as we start to track the migrants after I activated our emergency operation center. It's just beginning to really stress our systems and really stress our financial condition in the city of Denver.
CAMEROTA: And so -- so Denver can't absorb 472 people? Like, what's the problem? HANCOCK: That's just where we had the surge. That's where we just started counting because we activated the emergency operation center. The reality is that we have over 700 migrants in asylum seekers that have come to our city over the last several months. And the reality is that we are trying to take care of those who are unhoused. By the way, we know this is a challenge in cities all over the country in terms of our neighbors being unhoused. And we're also trying to house those who are coming to our transportation station in the city of Denver.
We simply can't do both. It is stressing our system, stressing our shelters in the city of Denver. And so, we've had to open up two of our recreation centers, actually three, take them off line to our taxpaying citizens to help those who are coming into our cities as migrants and asylum seekers as well as to make public homes for assistance with our partners, our nonprofits and our faith leaders.
So, it is stressing our system. It is a challenged time. What we saw was not the continued trickle. We saw a surge happen where we saw anywhere from, you know, 16 to 110 people show up, at one time, in one night, and that becomes a problem where we're trying to provide services to them.
CAMEROTA: As you well know, there were some Republican governors who are shipping migrants to other cities. Do you know why there has been a surge in Denver?
HANCOCK: I think a couple things. One, we are learning from the migrants and asylum seekers themselves that they organize themselves through social media to come to a destination outside of their normal entry spot or their entry spot in El Paso, Texas. They decide to come to Denver.
But they also -- they told us that there are some folks on the ground who suggested they come to Denver. And so, as they boarded buses to come to Denver, they came and we started seeing them come in droves, again, 60, 70, 110 of the time, and that just becomes a little too much.
CAMEROTA: Yes, understood. Last, mayor, very quickly, do you consider what's happening at the border a crisis? Do you call it a crisis?
HANCOCK: It is a crisis. I don't know anyone who can look at that and realize that we don't have a problem. I think -- I made a call today to the federal government to really challenge them and say it is time. This situation occurred way before -- it has been going on far too long in America. We don't have any sensible immigration policy.
My call to them was -- again, mayors and cities bear the brunt of Congress's inability to act to continue to play politics and not do what's right in terms of city now negotiating a policy around immigration that makes sense.
Once again, we have our cities all over this nation bear the burden of inactivity. So, we need federal government to act to address this crisis at our border and to make sure we have a policy that makes sense for those who are trying to come in U.S. but also to help those of us who are the ground trying to make accommodations for those who want to come to this nation seeking freedom and seeking opportunity.
CAMEROTA: Mayor Hancock, thank you very much. Great to get your perspective.
HANCOCK: Thanks for having me. Have a good day.
CAMEROTA: You, too. Also, tonight, a federal judge ruling the Biden administration cannot end the Trump era 'remain in Mexico' policy, at least for now. The Supreme Court had given the president -- President Biden the greenlight to end the program. It sent certain non-Mexican citizens who entered the U.S. back to Mexico for processing. That is apparently changing.
So, I want to bring in now CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, also Democratic Congressman Adriano Espaillat from New York, and former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh. Great to have all of you guys here. Congressman, is this your fault? Meaning, Congress's fault? I mean, as the mayor was just saying, why can't Congress act?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): Well, I agree with the mayor. As an immigrant, I agree that we have not been able to come forward with comprehensive immigration reform. So, it's a crisis at the border. But it's a crisis in the hemisphere, a crisis of democracy.
Most of the folks that are coming over are from Nicaragua and from Venezuela. Fleeing ruthless, thuggish regimes. You see what's happening in Peru right now. And you see the crisis, the environmental crisis in some countries that push people to look for some level of help.
CAMEROTA: That's why it's getting worse. And so, why can't Congress act?
ESPAILLAT: We should act. And I'm not blaming --
CAMEROTA: What's the problem?
ESPAILLAT: -- I'm not blaming one side or the other. We haven't found the political will to do it. I think there have been sensible proposals that have been put at the table. And yet, this issue is weaponized politically. During the elections, it is used as a weapon to score points to get votes --
ESPAILLAT: -- to point fingers. And it's the wrong approach. We've got -- we've got to deal with this sooner or later.
JOE WALSH, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: Congressman is right. Alisyn, this is a broken system.
It has been broken for a while. And neither side wants to fix it because it plays -- CAMEROTA: Because of political expediency?
WALSH: -- politically.
CAMEROTA: Wait a second. So, you're really saying --
CAMEROTA: -- they're that cynical, that Democrats and Republicans --
CAMEROTA: -- don't want this fixed, what they're dealing with in Denver tonight?
WALSH: I say this as a former Republican member. If you can demagogue this issue and scream and yell about this issue, you do well in republican politics.
CAMEROTA: Yes. And what about Democrats? Democrats don't want to fix it either?
ESPAILLAT: I think we put forward real proposals. We put forward a proposal. A simple work permit, Alisyn --
ESPAILLAT: -- for five years with the ability to renew another five years.
CAMEROTA: And why did that pass?
ESPAILLAT: DREAMers, DREAMers is the simplest concept of all.
CAMEROTA: True. I agree.
ESPAILLAT: No political will from the other side to get it done.
WALSH: I think Democrats have been afraid of border security and Republicans have been afraid of addressing the issue of DREAMers.
WALSH: And so, nothing has gotten done.
CAMEROTA: I hear you. I think that makes sense. John, obviously, New York has had various issues. I mean, every city now is having issues. It's not just the border, but they're really having issues at the border.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, this is a multifaceted problem and definitely a crisis. But when you look at, you know, the politics of it up front, there was a lot of screaming and yelling about the Republican governor in Texas sending, you know, migrants on buses up to New York City and Chicago.
CAMEROTA: Martha's Vineyard.
MILLER: That was the governor in Florida.
CAMEROTA: That's right.
MILLER: But then, you know, we learned, when the city of New York sent the team down there to the mayor's office, that the El Paso mayor was sending seven buses for -- you know, versus the three buses that the governor was sending. And he's a fellow Democrat. That was a city that was just being overwhelmed and what they were saying is, where do you want to go?
If you tack on top of that, the idea that most of these border crossings are facilitated by two major cartels in Mexico that are charging between $1,500 and $4,000 a head for single travelers or more for families, when Title 42 comes down, they are expecting that to go from 170,000 crossings a month to over 200. That is going to be feeding more money, not the millions, in the billions to the cartels, which isn't good for us because that's being funneled back into the drug markets. It's a surround sound problem (ph).
CAMEROTA: Okay. So, we have a minute left, let us do a lightning round. What is the solution?
MILLER: The solution, I think, everybody has agreed here is that Congress has to act. I mean, this goes back to, you know, Newt Gingrich and Ted Kennedy coming up with a bill that they just couldn't get across because even back then, parties were too brittle. But we need to have a mechanism. We can't let the crisis overtake us.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Okay. What is the solution?
WALSH: Congress has to act. We have to secure the border, and we have to fix our bright broken asylum system.
CAMEROTA: Congressman, take this message back to Congress. What is the answer?
ESPAILLAT: I'll start with DREAMers. That's the low-hanging fruit. And by the way, we are willing to do border security. The Republicans just walked away from the table in the Sinema-Tillis framework. They don't want anything. They want to weaponize this, two years from now. Let's do DREAMers. They work, they're nurses, they're teachers --
ESPAILLAT: -- they own their homes, they're small business owners, they're Americans in everything except for one thing: They don't have that piece of paper. Let's do that.
WALSH: And by the way, Alisyn, all of these things are things that most of the American people want.
CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Now, I hear what you're saying. Start with what should be easy. For whatever reason, it is not. Okay, gentlemen, thank you very much for that conversation. I really appreciate that. Okay, next, Elon Musk claims to be all about free speech. So, why did he just banned multiple journalists who cover him and the tech industry, including CNN's own Donie O'Sullivan. He's going to join me next to discuss.
CAMEROTA: Just in tonight, Elon Musk banning multiple tech journalists from Twitter with no explanation. The suspensions come just hours after Twitter shut down an account belonging to an emerging competitor, Mastodon.
The ban includes The New York Times's Ryan Mac, The Washington Post's Drew Harwell, and our own CNN's Donie O'Sullivan. Here with me to talk about all this, we have John Berman, also Donie O'Sullivan, and CNN's Oliver Darcy. What did you do that was so bad, Donie?
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We reported on Elon Musk. We were talking about the world's -- well, former world's richest man, second richest man who runs Twitter. He has taken particular --
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. He has been annoyed that there has been this account which has been active for years now which tracks the movements of his private jet.
CAMEROTA: You're not doing that. Why did you get banned?
O'SULLIVAN: So, we reported how yesterday he shut that account down. And tonight, we continue to report on it. He is claiming on social media that I and other journalists shared the precise live location of his jet, and therefore, that's why he kicked this off because we caused damage to him. Certainly, in my case, I didn't. We just posted stories about what was happening, him shutting down those accounts.
But look, I think the bigger issue here is, of course, this is supposed to be the guy who is the free speech absolutist (ph).
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Are you saying that Elon Musk is saying something that isn't true?
O'SULLIVAN: I think that seems to be the case.
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, it goes -- it actually goes further than that, John. He's -- he was touting, I mean, freedom of speech as this beacon, that Twitter would be a beacon of that, until it comes to anybody saying something about something he doesn't like.
BERMAN: There's a word for that.
CAMEROTA: Is it called hypocrisy? BERMAN: It might be called hypocrisy. First of all, Elon Musk's understanding of freedom of speech has always been somewhat limited. There is no constitutional freedom of speech for a private company. Never has been. As far as I know, there never will be.
So, his criticism to Twitter from before were off-base. It is his company.
I mean, he can ban Donie if he wants to. It's just wildly hypocritical.
CAMEROTA: Oliver, what is CNN going to do about this?
OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Well, I think this raises a big question about what the free press, future of the free press on Twitter looks like. You now, are news organizations going to stand by as the reporters are just, you know, hastily banned without explanation?
CNN is saying it's going to reevaluate its relationship with Twitter based on the response it gets. I want to read to you the full statement, Alisyn.
DARCY: It says, the impulsive and unjustified suspension of a number of reporters, including CNN's Donie O'Sullivan is concerning but not surprising. And it goes on to say, Twitter's increasing instability and volatility should be of incredible concern for everyone who uses Twitter. And then it goes on to say, we have asked Twitter for an explanation, and we will reevaluate our relationship based on that response.
I think it's so important to point out that twitter really needs -- really relies on news. I mean, that's kind of the lifeblood of Twitter --
CAMEROTA: And journalists. I mean, they're all on Twitter.
DARCY: And so, if you see news organizations start to pull their reporters, pull their brand accounts, pull their contents off of Twitter, you know, that is going to be a real blow to the platform and make it less usable, I think, for the average person.
O'SULLIVAN: Doing my job here. I played Devil's advocate against myself, I guess. Look, when Trump got suspended, everybody pointed out that that was also, you know, a concerning thing for many people, kicking off the then president of the United States regardless of the circumstances.
But, you know, I have a platform. I'm here talking to you on CNN. There are other social media platforms, the First Amendment. Despite what Musk and a lot of his supporters -- those not actually apply to Twitter. I think what is more concerning here, though, is independent journalists, freelance journalists all around the world, many of whom are covering maybe abuses and ongoing at Musk's other companies, Tesla, SpaceX. Think about the chilling effect that might have because, as already said, many journalists rely on Twitter to get their work out there, particularly if they are independent freelancers.
CAMEROTA: Furthermore, one of the things that I think the word hypocrisy comes in is that a lot of people felt that hateful, vitriolic, violent speech should not be allowed because of personal safety. Elon Musk doesn't want his personal safety violated. I mean, that is what it comes down. He doesn't want people to know where he is. It's about personal safety and danger.
BERMAN: When it's about him, he doesn't like it so much. Look, I said this before to you, Elon Musk is a very successful businessman. He's a rich guy. He's a rich guy who bought a media company. But because he bought a media company doesn't means he understands a thing about the media business or about how this all works. I think he's just proving that again and again and again.
DARCY: If I may, I think we should say that he is actively smearing people like Donie saying that they effectively posted assassination cornets on him for reporting on this Elon jet. That's obviously not true, totally false, but that's what you're hearing him say on Twitter tonight.
O'SULLIVAN: Also, the location of his jet is publicly available information.
CAMEROTA: Wow! I mean, that --
BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) us all banned.
O'SULLIVAN: I always thought I get banned for my bad jokes.
CAMEROTA: That really adds another wrinkle to it. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Next, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi sit down with CNN exclusively, and they say that Joe Biden should run for a second term. As Pelosi throws some shade at a certain former president, maybe she does an impersonation. We'll see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Had I known that standing up for truth would cost me my job, friendships, and even my personal security, I would without hesitation do it all over again. I can rest easy at night knowing that I fulfilled my oath to the office. I know many in this institution cannot do the same.
REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): I think we get out of this mess that we're in. The polarization, the hate, the anger, the fear. The first step out of that is with gratitude because this country has always done great things. But we do great things when we are together, when we embrace normalcy, when we embrace decency, when we embrace compassion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That was Republican Adam Kinzinger and Democrat Tim Ryan delivering their final speeches as congressman on the House floor. With just days to go until new Congress, we have a CNN exclusive for you. Jamie Gangel sits down with outgoing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer for their first joint interview.
Back with us now, John Berman, Congressman Espaillat, and former Congressman Joe Walsh. Okay, so let's listen to this sit down over lunch with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Here they are talking about if they would like President Biden to run again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: There is a CNN poll that just came out that shows there is little appetite on both sides for a Biden-Trump rematch in 2024. You're stepping aside. Do you think President Biden should step aside for a younger generation?
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I think President Biden has done an excellent job as president of the United States. I hope that he does seek reelection. He's a person with a great vision for our country.
He has been involved for a long time, so he has great knowledge of the issues and the challenges we face. And he is the most empathetic president. He connects with the American people. The vision, the knowledge, the strategic thinking is all here. The empathy is from the heart. And I think that he has been a great president.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): What he has accomplished?
GANGEL: Do you think he should run again?
SCHUMER: He has done an excellent, excellent job. When he runs, I'm going to support him all the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: John, as you know, I also don't let anything get in the way of me and my lunch, as you know.
BERMAN: How many dozens of interviews have you done in a diner before? I've never seen anyone actually eat during an interview. Nancy Pelosi is, like, I'm going to eat, there's food here, I'm starving.
CAMEROTA: Okay, back to the point. Has something shifted since the midterm? Has the momentum for President Biden to run again shifted?
BERMAN: He's got a better story now than he had before the midterms, certainly with the Senate at least. Democrats didn't lose control of the House of Representatives although not by as much as people thought they would. They gained seats in the Senate. President Biden has continued to pass things that he wanted to pass.
So, I think Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are giving the natural response. You would not expect leaders of Congress in a president's party to say anything but what they said right there. And unless and until there is actually a democratic alternative, I don't expect to hear that from anyone in any kind of leadership position in the party.
CAMEROTA: Yes, Joe?
WALSH: I want whatever sandwich she was eating.
CAMEROTA: It looked like a burrito.
WALSH: I think the winds have shifted. Biden is in really good shape. This is just the beginning because my former political party, now in charge of the House, is going to just make a mess of things for two years, and President Biden is just going to sit back and point at that mess that the American people are not going to be happy with.
ESPAILLAT: Two years are an eternity. We're two years away from an election. A month could be an eternity.
CAMEROTA: He might change his mind?
ESPAILLAT: No. I think he has done a good job. I think -- look, we went through a pandemic. He was there for the American families. Investing in infrastructure maybe as much or more than Eisenhower did for the highway system. Gun control, dealing with the student debt.
CAMEROTA: Because of legislative --
ESPAILLAT: So, when we -- when we -- we have somebody working for us and they're doing a good job. What do we do because we don't like the title? We fire them? No, we re-hire them.
CAMEROTA: Yeah. I mean, do you think, John, that in general, Americans like consistency and they're going to stick with the devil they know? I don't know if he is going to win (ph). I mean, at the end of the day, do people just feel more comfortable?
BERMAN: Incumbent presidents very rarely lose. It doesn't happen often. I will say this, that Joe Biden -- I think the world, especially democratic world, is looking at things differently as long as Donald Trump is in the race, as long as Donald Trump may or is likely to be the Republican nominee. Joe Biden as the nominee is a different story.
But if there a generational comparison, I think there may be a recalculation. They may come to the same place, but I think they will rethink things.
CAMEROTA: Okay. Let us now hear from Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on Donald trump's announcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GANGEL: Right now, Donald Trump is the only Republican who has announced he could be the nominee, he could be president again. You've been through the first presidency. You've been through January 6th. What would it mean if Donald Trump was reelected president?
SCHUMER: I don't think it'll happen. I think people have gotten wise, too. Took a little while, but they did.
PELOSI: I don't think that we should talk about him while we are eating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That's a funny line.
ESPAILLAT: That's a great line.
CAMEROTA: But I think you disagree fundamentally with what Senator Schumer was saying.
WALSH: Yeah, I mean, all respect to Senator Schumer, he's not off the republican base. He is still the king of the republican base until someone --
CAMEROTA: Donald Trump is?
CAMEROTA: Yes. So, you don't think that the tide has turned with that?
WALSH: The tide is turning. I don't know if it's per minute.
CAMEROTA: Uh-hmm. Your thoughts?
ESPAILLAT: Well, if you see the results in the last election and you see what we did in the Senate, even though we lost the majority in the House, a tight margin unforeseen before perhaps at this level, I think he's done. I think Trump is done. I mean, again, two years is an eternity, a month is an eternity in politics.
CAMEROTA: I hear what you're saying, but do you -- I mean, did you learn -- does the last experience inform your thoughts at all, which is a lot of people didn't take him seriously and then it became --
ESPAILLAT: I get that but, you know, January 6th and a host of things, the accumulation of things, and even though he has a base, it's not broad enough for America to come forward --
WALSH: I agree with that. I think there's still a decent chance that he gets the nomination. I don't think he will ever be elected again.
CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, thank you very much. Really interesting.
More than a month after the murders of those four college students in Idaho, the mother of one of the victims says she feels left in the dark by police. So, up next, where the investigation stands tonight.
CAMEROTA: It has been more than a month since the murders of four college students in Idaho and police have yet to name a suspect.
CAMEROTA: The biggest development was police asking the public for help finding that white Hyundai Elantra or information about it, but we've not heard of any other lead or what happened with leads on that car. Now, the mother of one of the victims is speaking out. Let's listen to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI GONCALVES, MOTHER OF SLAINED IDAHO STUDENT: It's sleepless nights, it's feeling sick to your stomach, it's just being left in the dark.
UNKNOWN: You found out about the white car from a press release?
GONCALVES: Yes. Yes.
UNKNOWN: Did they send you the press release?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: She's one of multiple parents speaking out this week, looking for answers about their children.
Back with me is John Berman, John Miller and Joey Jackson. I don't understand. I don't understand, John, what's happening in Idaho, why this is taking so long. That white car, I thought that it was linked somehow to the driveway of that apartment or something, but it seems like it was just kind of spotted in the neighborhood.
MILLER: So, the white car is a lead, which is after doing the big video canvas and asking people, you know, what they've seen, somebody, you know, comes forward with a piece of video and deciding and says, that car was in the area of the resident at the time of the murder, and they want to know more about it.
We don't really know if they know any more about just that because they're not saying. But there are like 20,000 of that car between those years in that color, in the area in the whole state of Idaho. So, you know, without finding the car, they can do basically a batch dump of all the registered owners then cross out with NICC and see, you know, who has a criminal past and so on. There are things they can get through, but it's just a lead.
CAMEROTA: Joey, this mother, I think, is recognizing what I often felt when I was a crime reporter, which is victim's families think that the police are their advocates or the police are there for them. But in fact, the police sometimes do a bad job of that. The police are trying to solve a crime and they are often insensitive to what the families need.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: But that's problematic, right? It takes a village and certainly, I think police and prosecutors and other law enforcement entities have to be sensitive, you know, to people who are really in misery and who are really grieving and doing other things at the time. You want answers, you want information.
And so, yes, we have to understand and respect the fact that the police are busy, Alisyn. They have a lot of work to do. They're trying to do their due diligence. But for families to learn about things on TV like everyone else, I think you have to be a conduit to the families. You have to give them repeated and persistent updates. You have to give them some sense of comfort that you're doing your job and trying to bring some measure of justice whatever that looks like to them.
CAMEROTA: That leads us to the story of the missing American student in France. His parents have not gotten any information. They don't know what has happened to their son. Authorities in France not being terribly helpful. They went on Anderson last night. I think that this is a sound that we have from them. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH DELAND, PARENT OF MISSING EXCHANGE STUDENT: I talked to the FBI today, and I asked the FBI agent, you know, is there -- do you feel like there's any progress, what's the status? And I don't get anywhere. It just feels like the wind has gone out of its sail as far as what is being done to find my son. You know, the more time that goes by, the more worried we become.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: This is why parents do turn to the media and often, it really helps.
BERMAN: Well, it can help in certain aspects. John, I think you probably speak on this more than I can. But there are different constituencies here. The FBI is trying to solve the crime. And that is their first, second, third, fourth, and fifth interest in this case. They should have a better bedside manner.
It is like we talk about doctors in the hospital. Yes, you know, their job is to save the patient, but wouldn't it be nice if they did a better job talking to the families also? It's a skill. It's not the primary thing they are doing there, though. And --
CAMEROTA: But the parents are desperate for information. The FBI could at least or the police at least just give them an update. Here's what we are doing today. I think --
BERMAN: What if they can't? What if that would compromise the investigation? What if you're telling them something that shouldn't be made public or shouldn't be made, you know, known?
CAMEROTA: Well, one --
MILLER: We have a completely different problem in France, which is the secret is the French authorities aren't telling the FBI anything. So, the FBI has nothing to tell that family. The French are telling the State Department that we are tracking and following the investigation, full stop. We think he walked away of his own accord. He's 22 years old and a full grown-up. And, you know, if he turns up anywhere, we'll get back to right away.
But they are not doing, you know, a nationwide, you know, hunt using all resources for this. And that, as we have circled back between these two stories, is very hard for parents. The French are being very French about this, which is he will be fine, and the Americans are being very American about which we want answers now.
CAMEROTA: Will it help that Interpol is now involved?
MILLER: So, Interpol is a clearinghouse for information. What it will really help is that yellow notice that they put out which then circulates this picture to every border crossing. So, if he gets on a plane, if he crosses between one country in EU and another, that should ring a bell that this missing person is right here right now.
JACKSON: And it's about time they did that. I mean, the family's position was, you know, look, do something, right? We believe that our son is acting not in accord with how he normally acts. They're seeing nothing to see here. He probably just wandered off. There's probably nothing amiss. There's nothing nefarious going on.
That's a major disconnect between a family who wants answers and the French saying, you know what, and prosecutors agreeing he'll be back, don't worry about it. CAMEROTA: I also want to get in the family, the parents of one of the
victims in the UVA shooting because they are speaking out also, and they want the public's help. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAPPY PERRY, MOTHER OF KILLED UVA STUDENT: We need to change gun laws. Change them. We need more stipulation. The red flags were there and this young man was still able to purchase a firearm.
SEAN PERRY, FATHER OF KILLED UVA STUDENT: We are here to advocate against the gun violence and mental health issues. We are here to make sure another family will never, never go through this again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: John, of course, they are right. I mean, they -- the red flags were there, as you said, and yet he was able to purchase a gun.
BERMAN: And look, Alisyn, you have spoken to so many of these families from so many different events, and these parents have now joined this growing club of people who have been so badly hurt by this and are now just crying out to the world for something. But their cries were like, you know, (INAUDIBLE) where they're crying out warning, warning, warning, but no one is listening.
CAMEROTA: Yeah. I suppose this is what all parents say. All parents say that the signs were there and that they need to tighten up the red flag laws. Many states are trying to do that. You know, the bipartisan gun law was trying to do that, but it always feels like afterwards we find out about the signs.
Gentlemen, thank you very much. John and John, you're not going anywhere -- Joey, thank you -- because tonight, the National Archives has released more than 13,000 additional documents on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in 1963. What do they say? What will we learn after nearly six decades? Why has it taken so long to make these documents public? We're going to be joined by presidential historian Douglas Brinkley.
CAMEROTA: Tonight, the National Archives releasing 13,000 previously classified documents on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Yet thousands of pages are still under lock and key 59 years after Kennedy's murder. Why? And what's in those pages?
Back with me, John Berman and John Miller. We are also joined by presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, author of "Silent Spring Revolution." Doug, I want to start with you. Might these 13,000 pages that have just been released reveal some new nugget that we did not know about?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, people are hoping that might be the case, another piece to the puzzle of the great murder mystery in American history. But alas, when we throw numbers, 13,000, we usually find out that most of these are just sort of articles or general observations, nothing really that exciting.
And what also is very disturbing to the public but isn't to scholar is how much gets redacted. You know, our intelligence services, Defense Department, national security apparatus does oftentimes darken hearts (ph) on a document. When that is not filled in, it just leads to conspiracy-minded people getting inflamed.
But Biden met his mark today, he got these documents released, but that's not going to be enough when there are still CIA files and many documents still not declassified. And so, there is still going to be a drumbeat, where is the rest?
CAMEROTA: But John, if there's nothing in them, why have they been under lock and key for more than 50 years?
BERMAN: It's never going to be enough with this specific event, which is obviously such a jarring wound to the American psyche at the time but it was the lack of transparency in those very early years that led to this doubt, which I think will never go away.
People will never be satisfied. If there is a complete release and there is nothing in there, then it will cause people say, see, they are hiding something! They're hiding something. They didn't release the real stuff here. People are not going to believe it, but I think the original sin from this happens so, so long ago. What the CIA probably is keeping now is just this stuff that the CIA always --
CAMEROTA: Maybe or maybe there's something about Lee Harvey Oswald in there, John.
MILLER: Well, I mean, if you look at what they released and the CIA says, we've now released almost everything we have, the redactions in these new releases are much smaller than the redactions in the old ones.
But John is right. This was, you know, a generation that I grew up in. And nobody -- given the choice, nobody really wants to believe that some slump, you know, was solely responsible for killing the person that many regards as the most inspirational, charismatic, you know, president in American politics since Lincoln.
And there has got to be a better story. So, if they released the next documents and there's only two words redacted, the conspiracy theorists will say, the secret is in those two words.
CAMEROTA: Doug, is it possible that we still don't know something, that there is some mystery that could be unearthed?
BRINKLEY: Yes, there is. There is still -- most people feel some pieces missing. Is it the Chicago mob? Was there a CIA involvement that has been hidden? Why was Oswald -- what was he doing in Mexico City? These things continue every year. There is some good, new research that comes out. But alas, we are still left with the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald is seen as the murderer of John F. Kennedy and the rest is circumstantial.
But the fact that Jack Ruby was then killed after Oswald and the fact that the Warren Commission did not do a completely full job at the time, as John Berman rightfully said, there's never going to be enough. We are never going to be able to satisfy all people that want a definitive answer about this. But this may be a couple documents here. They might move the narrative forward in a small way. They might enough for another book.
CAMEROTA: Okay. Doug Brinkley, John Berman, John, I want to thank you all. Great to have you. Thanks so much for watching tonight. Our coverage continues.