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CNN Tonight

Barbara Walters, Legendary News Anchor, Has Died At 93; 12AM ET: Barbara Walters Recounts Her Trailblazing Career In Special Encore Episode Of Larry King Live; Suspect In Idaho Killings Arrested In Pennsylvania, Questions Remain About Motive, Murder Weapon; Prosecutor: Suspect Charged With 4 Counts Of First-Degree Murder; Transcripts: Ginni Thomas Says "Best Friend" Mentioned In Post- Election Fight Text Is Her Husband, SCOTUS Justice Thomas; Transcripts Show Ginni Thomas Telling Jan 6 Committee "I Don't Know Specific Instances" Of Voter Fraud. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired December 30, 2022 - 23:00   ET




ALISYN CAMEROTA, HOST: More now on our breaking news, an icon in American TV news has died. Barbara Walters, news anchor, reporter, and talk show host, was 93-years-old. She always acknowledged that she did have a legacy. But, she pointed out it was more than just her interviews with all of those famous people. CNN's Richard Roth looks back on her trailblazing career.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Barbara Walters was one of the most fascinating people of any year in the television era.


BARBARA WALTERS, NEW ANCHOR, REPORTER, & TALK SHOW HOST: I know that I've done some important interviews. I know that I have been a part of history.


ROTH: Was she ever?


WALTERS: Are you sorry you didn't bring the tapes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think so, because they were private conversations.

WALTERS: We read that you are mad.


ROTH: From murderers--

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WALTERS: Why did you kill John Lennon?


ROTH: --to movie stars.


WALTERS: Are you a changed man since the illness? Did it affect you very much? Did you mind being thought of as sex, sex, sex?

I think that what is important is to have curiosity. Follow that curiosity. I'm a great believer in homework.


ROTH: Before people revealed all on social media, Barbara Walters was the interviewer to open up the stars.


WALTERS: Does he hit you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He shakes. He pushes. He swings.

WALTERS: And, I hope that they think that I'm fair and that I can be penetrating without being a killer, and I am, I hope.


ROTH: And, which interview was her most important?


WALTERS: The first, and at that time the only, I only did one after interview that Anwar Sadat and Menachem Begin gave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are always like this.


ROTH: She said her 1977 interview with Cuba's Fidel Castro was a news coup.


WALTERS: A runs who runs the country? A man who allows no dissent?


ROTH: Castro didn't make it easy.


WALTERS: Blowing a Cohiba, the Cigar that that he smokes, had smoke in my face for three and a half hours. I didn't mind it. It's a different time.


ROTH: About 74 million people, the most viewers for a news program, tuned in to see Monica Lewinsky, the White House Intern involved with President Clinton.


WALTERS: What would you tell your children when you have them?



ROTH: She got a reputation for making her interview guests cry.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He never got to know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, you won't feel so big.


ROTH: After Katharine Hepburn said she felt like an old tree, Walters was cut down by critics for asking this.


WALTERS: What kind of a tree are you?


ROTH: It didn't take long for Walters to become part of pop culture, the same network that made fun of her was where she got her big break, NBC's Today Show.


WALTERS: I was not a television suffragette. I kicked the door open because after being there 11 years, I was named the first co-host of a morning program.


ROTH: But, she was not permitted by her co-host to ask a question until he posed three.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harry Reasoner, Barbara Walters.


ROTH: It got worse when Walters, to the surprise of many, was named the first female co-anchor of a network evening newscast.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've kept time on your stories than mine, and I - you want four minutes.


ROTH: She later described it as drowning without a life preserver,--


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Barbara Walters special.

WALTERS: The specials saved my life. Good evening, I'm Barbara Walters.


ROTH: --and launched a legendary career at ABC, kept by creating and co-hosting "The View".


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When did you first learn about sex?

WALTERS: Well, I didn't learn about sex until I started to do this show, and now I know more about sex. I ever wanted to know. The chemistry of it and the fact that it's live, that it's outrageous that you never know what you're going to hear.


ROTH: When she left "The View" and ABC, they named a building in her honor, elastic monument for a woman who changed TV.


WALTERS: I'm so proud of the women today. There are so many of them that a wonderful. That's my legacy.


CAMEROTA: As Richard just mentioned, Barbara Walters' watched interview was in March of 1999 with Monica Lewinsky. Here is a little more. 74 million people tuned in.


WALTERS: You showed the President of the United States your thorn underwear. Where did you get the nerve? I mean, who does that?

LEWINSKY: So, I blurred it out. I have a crush on you.

WALTERS: He kissed you.


WALTERS: What do you think?

LEWINSKY: He is a good kisser.

WALTERS: Did you ever tell Bill Clinton that you were in love with him?


WALTERS: You did. What did he say?

LEWINSKY: He said that means a lot to me.

WALTERS: Did he ever tell you that he was in love with you?




CAMEROTA: Those are some good questions right there. 74 million people tuned in to see that. Tributes for Barbara Walters are pouring in tonight. Joan Lunden tweeting, "We've lost a true legend with the passing of Barbara Walters, such a trailblazer, such a generous woman. I learned so much from working with her.

Her 2020 colleague, Deborah Roberts, says, "What an honor to share the set with the inimitable trailblazer when I joined ABC, 2020. We will never forget the phone call when she asked me to join the groundbreaking program. And, her "View" co-host Michelle Collins adds, "One of the first rites of passage of becoming a host on The View" was to have lunch with Barbara Walters. Few times in my life have I been that nervous. She was an absolute trailblazer, class, elegance, smarts that are increasingly hard to come by. I'll always be grateful."

And, Oprah posted this on Instagram. "Without Barbara Walters, there wouldn't have been me, nor any other woman you see on evening, morning or daily news. She was indeed a trailblazer. I did my very first television audition with her in mind the whole time. Grateful that she was such a powerful and gracious role model, grateful to have known her, grateful to have followed in her light."

And, the one and only Connie Chung joins me now. She, of course, worked with Barbara Walters at ABC News. Connie, great to have you on tonight. Tell us your thoughts as you hear this sad news about Barbara Walters.

CONNIE CHUNG, JOUNALIST (Via Telephone): Listen, I can't imagine journalism without Barbara. Barbara was one of a handful of women who was in news business at the time that I started. But, beyond that, she blazed a trail for the men too. In other words, the men were sitting back there, not aggressively going after interviews, one-on-one interviews, and they were not picking up the phone, frankly. She did everything she could to get an interview. She was indefatigable. I first met her in 1969 when I was working at a local station in Washington, D.C. And, she was just - she was bigger than life. She met me at her limousine at the Southwest gate of the White House because I wanted to interview her, and she - I hopped in the limo and I sat there in the back with her, and she had his assistants sitting in the front, and she was giving instructions of what to do about this, what to do about that. And, I thought, Oh my god. This is like a Katharine Hepburn movie, which the executive is not barking orders, but saying it so definitively, this is what I need to do. And, I thought, oh gosh, if I ever get there, how likely would it be?

Well, we - I met. That was the first time, but then we had a long relationship, because there were times when I was competing against her for interviews.

CAMEROTA: And, what was that like, Connie? When you're competing against Barbara Walters for the get, what was that like?

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Oh my god. I mean, I thought it was against Mount Rushmore. I thought I'll never get this. But, if I ever did, and I did a few times, she would write me a note. She would - I mean, I can just see her. She would wear a - she had this stationery that was blue. Sometimes, it was white with the blue lettering, but it had her - her handwriting was kind of slanted, not school teacher handwriting. It was - and every time she would write me a note, it was heartfelt. I mean, it really was so sincere, I thought, oh my Gosh, this is how she gets people into her a close confidence. And, I could--


CHUNG (Via Telephone): --tell, when I realized that we - I was doing everything that Barbara Walters said, I mean, I tried to--


CHUNG (Via Telephone): --it started out a little earlier. There were three big things, Alisyn. One was that her parents, her father had a nightclub that collapsed, and so basically she was supporting her family, her father, her brother, and her sister, a disabled sister. And then, my father retired and I was supporting my parents, and there was a - we had a bond because of that-- CAMEROTA: Wow.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): --because she and I both understood the fact that we needed jobs, and we had to put up with the sexism and--


CAMEROTA: Yes. And, I want to ask you about that, Connie, because, I mean, this was no easy feat, obviously, for her to blaze this trail, because you just - we just played this Harry Reasoner moment where they didn't - nobody welcomed her with open arms. They weren't - her male co-hosts were not happy that she was there, and they let it be known, and she stayed anyway.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Oh my Gosh. CAMEROTA: I mean, it was--

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Oh yes.

CAMEROTA: --that's not an easy road every day to show up and feel that way. And, her tenacity allowed her to stay. And, one more thing, Connie, that I think that you can relate to because I think that all female journalists in the 70s and 80s felt this way. Everything that she gave up for this career. She really had to make so many personal sacrifices.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Yes. Well, we both forgot to have a baby. So, she adopted a baby, and then I adopted a baby.

CAMEROTA: You really did follow in her footsteps. You're not kidding.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Here is one more, Alisyn. When she was named the first female co-anchor of an evening news broadcast, 20 years later, I became the second--


CHUNG (Via Telephone): --female to be named to as - an evening news broadcast. I was the first at CBS, but the second after Barbara Walters. And, when I was dumped after two years, she was dumped after two years.

CAMEROTA: Oh my God.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): She was the only one who could really console me. She called in, I know what you're feeling, because we were both working with people who didn't want us sitting next to them.

CAMEROTA: Wow. Yes. You have a layer, so many parallels, Connie. And, what do you think it was about - with Barbara on the air, we showed a few clips there of some people that she was interviewing, celebrities, and there was - her signature move or whatever, I don't even know if it was intentional, but she always ended up making people cry to the point where people would start the interview by saying, and I'm not going to cry, Barbara. You're not going to get me to cry, and then they'd cry.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): And, they cry.

CAMEROTA: What was her secret sauce for making people connect on such an emotional level?

CHUNG (Via Telephone): I think that she just - she made - provided an intimate setting. They didn't realize that she was drawing them out. It was almost like I used to try to play shrink with people, and I think that that's what Barbara was doing. She was getting them to reveal their innermost thoughts. And, before they knew it, they were - they're confiding in her. She was a very personable woman.

And, I found, one time I was at a - my husband and I went to the opening of a hotel, actually, in Las Vegas. And, we both met. Barbara and I got our nails done at the same. And, there she was. She was a - loved gossips, I think our nails done, and gossiping. It was the best time I've had a long time.

CAMEROTA: Oh, I would love to have a gossip session with Barbara Walters, and you, for that matter. I can only imagine all of the secrets and juicy stuff that she knew.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Oh, yes. She he knew it all. And, she was not shy about sharing it with her girlfriends.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my Gosh. Well, Connie, that's great. Thank you so much for sharing all this. I mean, you really bring back what were often the glory days. I mean, I don't know if Barbara Walters would call them the glory days, because, again, she was having to elbow--

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Yes.

CAMEROTA: --her way to the top, but the era of limousines and assistants and all that she - in 93 years, I thought about this, the arc of her life and her career and what she saw in journalism, I mean, is truly jaw dropping, to go from the traditional reporter pounding the pavement to creating "The View", which was groundbreaking in its format at that time. She really saw and did it all.

CHUNG (Via Telephone): Well, you know what? She was a great producer. She had started a program back at NBC called "Not for Women Only", and it was very much like "The View", but they - the network actually didn't really support it in many ways, but it was not for women only but it was for women. And then, later on, she revived it in many ways by creating "The View". So, it was her concept, her idea. Also, when I worked with her in 2020, she was originally a writer at - on the "Today Show". When I worked with her in 2020, we would sit at these meetings and I would watch her say, no, this is what we should say, and she'd be scribbling on a piece of paper and I knew what she was doing.


She was creating a storyline, and sort of basically saying, this is what I'm going to say,--


CHUNG (Via Telephone): --and I want all of you together with this idea.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting, Connie. Yes. Because, obviously, at her heart, she is a storyteller. She was a storyteller. And, I think that that is another reason that people so connected with her. Connie, I'm going to let you go, because speaking of "The View", we're also joined by Lisa Ling, who, of course, was a co-host on "The View". But, Connie, thanks so much for joining us. It was great to talk to you tonight and to hear your remembrances of Barbara.

But, I want to get to Lisa. Now, Lisa, tell us your thoughts, as you're listening to Connie talk about her history with Barbara, and some of your memories.

LISA LING, HOST OF "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA KING" (Via Telephone): Oh, well, I mean, I just found your conversation with Connie, one of my other idols, talking about Barbara, just so moving. I mean, we're talking about two women who have truly been the ultimate pioneers in our industry, and literally, as Connie talked about, sometimes competing for the same interviews. And, you really had to do it at the time, because there were so few women at that level in the business. But, yet, there was this profound mutual respect and adoration of each other that I will never tire of listening to.

And, one of the things that I was really able to experience working with Barbara at "The View was "The View" gave her a different kind of a platform. For so many years she was known as the woman who could secure the interview with just about anyone, whether it was Fidel Castro or Qaddafi or Saddam Hussein to Princess Diana, and then Monica Lewinsky. But, "The View" really allowed her to tell stories of her life to just be - to just tell stories as an ordinary human being and not as the celebrity interviewer. And, I think she really relished that. She really loved being able to just speak freely, and give her opinions, and talk to so openly about what she was experiencing in her life.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting, Lisa, because, obviously, that's so different than how she was trained. Obviously, as a journalist, you're not supposed to share your opinions. She was trained in that old school of thought, and I saw that clip, and maybe you just saw it now too of "The View" where "The View", I don't have to tell you, can get spicy, and there is sex talk and girl talk, and she - Barbara seemed to be blushing, basically, when it would veer in that direction.

LING (Via Telephone): Oh. She - Alisyn, she loved it. She absolutely loved it. I mean, I was listening to Connie talk about how she loved to gossip. I mean, I was in my mid-20s, but I just - I will never forget the story. She just loved to know everything about everyone. And, I think she really enjoyed just having the freedom on "The View" to be able to talk about things that, in her career as a journalist, she would never have been able to talk about. And so, that really was a really beautiful platform for her.

CAMEROTA: And, you're talked about how you were in your 20s, when you went to "The View", you were not a TV professional. And, did she coach you?

LING (Via Telephone): I mean, she coached everyone. She was constantly advising people on what to - I mean, not so much what to say, because when we were out there, it was kind of a free for all. But, she definitely was never shy about sharing her two cents, about so many of the things that we were talking about. But, she was such a champion of all of ours. And, again, Connie talking about the notes that she would write, and even after I left "The View" and I started working for the National Geographic Channel, I received a note from her on that blue stationery with that slanted handwriting that Connie was referring to, it said I'm watching you and I'm proud of you.

And, she was someone that was always sent the note and wanted people to know that she was watching them and supporting them.

CAMEROTA: That's so generous. That is so generous. And, she didn't have to do that. She was Barbara Walters. But, that's really gracious. And, one of the things I'm struck by in listening to you is that she had to, I think that a lot of women in the - coming up in the 60s and the 70s and 80s, felt that they had to act like men because they had to kind of emulate men in order to be successful, and that meant being a little bit more aggressive sometimes. It meant being a little bit meaner.


I think some women thought that. But, she - it sounds like she didn't do that. She was supportive of female colleagues and young women coming up in the business. And, I'm so - it's so nice to hear your experience with her.

LING (Via Telephone): Yes. I mean, I worked with her toward the end of her television career, and she certainly was nothing but supportive with me. But, - I mean, Alisyn, she did have to fight. I mean, she was so demeaned, and she would tell stories about the things that Harry Reasoner would say and do to her, and things that really compelled her to feel like she had to push harder and fight harder as well. And, again, I don't know that we would be doing what we're doing if it weren't for the likes of Barbara Walters and Connie Chung, who really engaged in those battles for us.

CAMEROTA: Totally agree.

LING (Via Telephone): We wouldn't have to fight those same battles.


LING (Via Telephone): And, they were hard. I mean, Connie was talking about how both, she and Barbara, adopted their children, because they missed that opportunity. They had to make so many sacrifices to be able to work at the highest levels in broadcast journalism. And, I think that there are a lot of regrets that come along with it. Now, having said that, I know that there is no one - there was no one, no one more important to her. She loved no one more than her daughter, Jackie, I mean, her adoration of her daughter and the things that she would do for her daughter. And, the regrets that she had about not spending more time with her daughter when she was at the height of her career, I think, continued to impact her for a very long time.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I do. Even I know that about her, though I didn't work with her. I do - I did hear her talk about things like that. And, I agree, not only did she pave the way for us in our careers, but we were able to have more of a balance in our lives because the women of Connie Chung and Barbara Walters generation told us not to give up what they had given up for this career. And, I think that that's really a powerful gift to us.

LING (Via Telephone): Yes. And, she was emphatic. Yes, Alisyn. She was emphatic with me about telling me not to sacrifice my personal career. I mean, she would say that to meet so frequently. CAMEROTA: Well, Lisa, it's great to talk to you about all of this and to hear your memories of Barbara Walters, and just what a loss it is for all of us. But, of course, she had such a stellar career. So, Lisa, thank you very much for joining me tonight.

LING (Via Telephone): Thank you.

CAMEROTA: I really appreciate talking to you. And, coming up at the top of the hour--

LING (Via Telephone): Thank you.

CAMEROTA: --at midnight from the CNN archives, we're going to air a special encore episode of Larry King Live with Barbara Walters, where she recounts her trailblazing career in broadcast news, her biggest headline-making interviews. So, stick around for that.

Of course, it is a busy news night here tonight. When we come back, I want to turn to the latest on the suspect in the killing of those four college students in Idaho.




CAMEROTA: New information tonight on the suspect in the murders of those four college students in Idaho stabbed to death in their beds last month. 28-year-old Bryan Kohberger was arrested this morning in Pennsylvania, and now faces four counts of first degree murder. A law enforcement source says Kohberger drove across country in a White Hyundai Elantra from Idaho and arrived in Pennsylvania at his parents' house right around Christmas. All the while, law enforcement was tracking his every step. CNN's Veronica Miracle has more.


CHIEF JAMES FRY, MOSCOW POLICE DEPARTMENT: Detectives arrested 28- year-old Bryan Christopher Kohberger in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania, on a warrant for murder.


VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's the announcement Moscow, Idaho, and much of the nation has waited to hear. 47 days after the killing of four University of Idaho students, a suspect is now in custody. Kohberger was arrested in Pennsylvania Friday on four counts of first degree murder.


BILL THOMPSON, LATAH COUNTY PROSECUTOR: --in addition to felony burglary which involves entering the residence with the intent to commit the crime of murder.

MIRACLE: Any indication that the suspect knew the victims?

FRY: That's part of the investigation as well. It won't be something that will come out at this point in time.


MIRACLE: Police also won't release a motive, but law enforcement sources tell CNN Police were led to Kohberger after tracing the ownership of a White Hyundai Elantra seen in the area at the night of the killings. They learned Kohberger had left the Moscow area and was tracked to Monroe County, Pennsylvania, south of Scranton. Sources say the FBI surveilled Kohberger for four days until the arrest was made at 1:30 a.m. Friday. Kohberger's White Hyundai was also recovered, those sources tell CNN, and that his DNA was found at the crime scene.


FRY: --provide any details in this criminal investigation might have tainted the upcoming criminal prosecution or alerted the suspect of our progress.


MIRACLE: Kohberger is currently a grad student, majoring in criminology at Washington State University in Pullman, less than 10 miles west of the crime scene in Moscow, Idaho. Police spent the day searching Kohberger's campus apartment in Washington.




MIRACLE: He graduated earlier in 2022 from DeSales University in Pennsylvania. A Reddit post Kohberger while a student there indicates he worked on a study about how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. Back in Moscow, the announcement is bringing the first signs of relief after weeks of fear.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just been very scary not knowing who was out there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I feel much better. I feel relieved. And so I'm just very happy that police have done the work.


MIRACLE: Alisyn, undergraduate students at the University of Idaho get back to campus in less than two weeks. And authorities say they will continue to maintain a strong police presence in and around campus to make students feel safe. Of course, though here in this community, an incredible sense of relief, now that a suspect has been arrested, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Veronica Miracle, thank you very much. We are more on the suspect's background, next.



CAMEROTA: Lots of new developments in the case of the Idaho student murders tonight, including how authorities identified and arrested the suspect. I want to bring in CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell, also former FBI Senior Intelligence Adviser Phil Mudd, and Former FBI Special Agent Bobby Chacon. And criminologist Casey Jordan thanks to all of you for being here.

OK. So Josh, am I right to assume that it basically all this came together in the past week once police got results from the DNA tests that they take from the scene?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, it comes down to DNA. Our law enforcement sources tell us as well as this vehicle, this white Hyundai Elantra that they had a - be on the lookout alert for. Law enforcement sources tell us that they were able to match the suspects DNA with unknown DNA found in Idaho through a public DNA database that matched to a family member.

That's how they started getting onto the suspect. And again, this vehicle which they were able to locate, he traveled across the country that according to sourcing from our colleague, Pam Brown. And this morning law enforcement there in Pennsylvania, particularly the Pennsylvania State Police put handcuffs on the suspect the FBI was there as well.

Of course, what happens next is we're waiting to see how this extradition process will take place. Whether he will fight extradition, that's - what Alisyn, we still don't know the why. We don't know what the connection was, what his motive was, whether he knew any of the victims here, that is all part of this investigation. We're hoping to learn more on Tuesday, we're hoping that court records will be unsealed there in Idaho.

CAMEROTA: Phil, let's talk about how the FBI had to track him from Pullman, Washington driving across the country to his parents' house in Pennsylvania. And then they had to sit on his house and surveil him for four days while they waited for an arrest warrant. I mean, that can't be easy. You know, we've all seen other cases where the suspect vanished during something like that.

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: And I've seen cases where we lost people at the FBI for a while. Think about the opportunities he has to make a move when he goes from west to east that is every time you go into a rest area, you got to know where he is. This is somebody who committed four murders. You've got to know where he is at nighttime, you got to be able to see him on an open road, and you don't want to have him see somebody behind him for too long. That might be a helicopter or a plane. If he gets into a dense area that is an urban area, you got to have rotating teams on him. So he doesn't identify anybody.

I tell you, one of the important things about that tailing process is I think, the right choice by the Police and the Feds not to speak about this case, the individual appear to be fairly comfortable not thinking that people were on his tail. That helped a lot here, I think Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And it is remarkable, because they put out that be on the lookout for that car on December 7. And so he had three weeks to get rid of that car, but he didn't. And I agree with you, Phil that that I guess then playing it very close to the West, obviously did help.

So Casey, that brings me to you. The fact that we know that this suspect studied criminology, and we're soliciting information online from criminals in terms of how they plan their crimes and their feelings. Let me just read to you what he posted on Reddit seeking information. In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. What do you see here Casey?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, it's almost like he was studying. Now he has been described by fellow criminal justice students in his program as one of those guys who was very scared a lot. And when he did speak, he was overly academic and wanted to be an expert on everything.

Some of the questions that survey which he did, as part of his master study earlier this year about included questions about did you plan it before you left your home? What were you thinking and feeling - crime? What did you do after the crime? It's almost as if he wanted to start on violent crime by committing it himself that he didn't trust self- reports of people who had been incarcerated that he was serving on --.

It was almost as if he was challenging. How can you be an expert on something you've never done? And we have seen this we have seen highly intelligent people. You know, don't forget the Unabomber had a PhD; Ted Bundy went to law school.

Sometimes there is a fine line between people studying something to be part of it. It's almost like he went native. But everything we have found out about him really would fit the problem that the FBI would have worked up on this kind of culprit.

CAMEROTA: Bobby, your thoughts?

BOBBY CHACON, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, now we entered the new phase right as Josh and Phil alluded to. We've been in this covert phase following him and instruct the - and things like that. Now we know who he is. Now we can come out in the open you heard them ask today if anybody knows anything about this guy. So now we're going to see a much more public and overt in investigation of this guy. I mean they have what they need; the prosecutors would not have gone forward with lodging charges if they weren't comfortable with what they have. But now we're going to see a much more overt investigation.


CHACON: They're seeking people to call in and tips. I think they'll get a ton of tips now overnight in the next couple of days about him and his behavior both before and after the crime.

CAMEROTA: And I might as well just put up the tip line for anybody who knows anything about this suspect. The Idaho police would sure like to hear from you the Moscow Idaho Police 208-883-7180. Friends, thank you very much for all of your expertise.

OK. Meanwhile, the January sixth transcripts keep coming. And this time we're learning more about how much Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas knew about his wife's texts to Trump's chief of staff. That's next.

At the top of the hour we have a special encore episode of Larry King Live with Barbara Walters. She talks about her career, her big interviews, and her life on her own words. That's coming up at midnight.



CAMEROTA: The newest batch of transcripts from the January 6 committee includes the testimony of Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and a longtime conservative activist. In the days after the election, she was texting with then Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.

And while Donald Trump and his supporters urged the Supreme Court to consider throwing out millions of votes in battleground states, Mrs. Thomas denied putting any pressure on her husband. She told the committee, "I can guarantee that my husband has never spoken to me about pending cases in the court.

It's an ironclad rule in our house. He's uninterested in politics, and I generally don't discuss with him my day to day work in politics. I did not speak with him at all about the details of my post-election activities".

But some of the transcripts suggest that might not be true. Let's bring in former Federal Prosecutor Shan Wu, and CNN Political Analyst and Managing Editor at Axios, Margaret Talev. Margaret, let's recap. And remember the text exchange between Ginni Thomas and Mark Meadows in which she sort of uses code and refers to someone as her best friend.

And I remember there being speculation for weeks about what she referring to Justice Thomas. So here it is, she says, Mark Meadows says to her, OK, after the election, this is a fight of good versus evil. Evil always looks like the victor until the King of Kings triumphs. Do not grow weary in well doing the fight continues. I've staked my career on it.

Well, at least my time in DC on it, Jenny Thomas response, thank you exclamation point needed that this plus a conversation with my best friend just now. I will try to keep holding on America is worth it. So people wondered if that meant Clarence Thomas. And here's what she said to the panel.

She said they asked her about that text. And if she was calling her husband, her best friend, she said, Mark Meadows is a friend of mine. And my best friend that I talk about is often my husband. So now we know. She did talk to him on that day. We don't know exactly about what. But what does that suggest?

Oh, hold on, Margaret, we have to fix your audio. Hold on a second. OK, hold that thought, well, we're going to fix that. Shan, I'll come to you first. This doesn't look good. I mean, it doesn't look good for Supreme Court for Justice, Clarence Thomas. I mean this is what people feared. And he or she saying yes, I, when I say my best friend and code, it means my husband.

SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Exactly. She has confirmed what everyone had feared. And this really is much bigger than just a spouse confiding in her spouse. It goes to the deep structural flaws of the current Supreme Court. They are incapable of policing themselves. They're living in a bubble and they want to demand that nobody scrutinize them whatsoever.

Really the breadth of her commitment to installing Trump believing there's fraud even when she admits in other places and transcript, there's no evidence of that. It really indicates that Justice Thomas should recue himself from anything to do with the Trump Administration, any issues, because his wife is so committed to Trump being in power no matter what the facts are.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, speaking of which, yes, committed to her hunch, I suppose without the facts or the evidence and she admits to that. So here's another exchange. This is between Congressman Raskin and Ginni Thomas. As she says, I can't say that I was familiar at that time with any specific evidence of voter fraud.

I was just hearing him from news reports and friends on the ground, grassroots activists who were inside various polling places that found things suspicious. And Jamie Raskin says, and what are the episodes of fraud that still concern you? Even in the wake of more than 60 federal and state court decisions rejecting allegations of fraud and irregularity.

She says there seems to be a lot of people still moving around identifying ways that there were well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. I don't know specific instances. I mean, that there it is right there. She doesn't know any specific instances that didn't stop her. MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANLYST: Alisyn, if you go back and contemporaneously look at what she was saying in that text - to Meadows putting pressure on him to do something expressing frustration with Mike Pence.


TALEV: And then you juxtapose it with what she actually told the committee. They're just so different. I mean, she was so, remember, she didn't want to talk to the committee. She was very much leaning into the election conspiracy theories. And I think to Shan's point. You know, when she's asked about this, what was she talking to her best friend about?

She says, she doesn't recall a specific that is basically his role with her would be to give her spousal support. In other words, comfort her when she was upset about things, but insisting that she never spoke about details with her husband that she never mentioned to him that she was texting.

The president's then chief of staff that is just incredibly hard to believe that there would be such a firm firewall in place and yet that she couldn't recall details about it. And so I think, because there has been building pressure on Thomas to recues himself in future decisions on the other justices to try to force a recusal or make a decision themselves.

It just it seems like what she was trying to get out of this committee process was a little bit of space, a little bit of room for reset. It's just all very damaging now that it's sort of laid out, I think in the record.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Margaret, Shan thank you both very much, great to talk to you tonight. Next, we're going to go into the archives for Barbara Walters what she said about her own amazing career.



CAMEROTA: Breaking news tonight, the death of a television news legend Barbara Walters gone at the age of 93. Next we go into the archives a special encore presentation of Larry King Live with Barbara Walters. We'll be right back.