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CNN Tonight

Newly Minted Presidential Candidate Says She Can Expand Base; George Santos May Run For Re-Election; Inflation Suggests Skipping Breakfast. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 15, 2023 - 23:00   ET




ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Newly minted Presidential Candidate, Nikki Haley, says she's the person who can expand the GOP base. Here's what she said to Sean Hannity on Fox Tonight, just hours after her first rally as a candidate.


NIKKI HALEY, FORMER UNITED NATIONS AMBASSADOR: We will get people that will come into our fold. Our goal is not -- we are not about compromises. We are not about changing who we are. We're about fighting boldly for what we believe, but convincing our opponents to be with us. And that's the part that's going to change. We need to expand our tent. We have to bring Hispanics in. We have to bring the Jewish community in. We need to bring the Asian community in. We need to bring African-Americans in, because our policies are right.


CAMEROTA: I want to bring in CNN Political Commentator Margaret Hoover, Democratic Commentator Kaivan Shroff Former Professional Tennis Player, Patrick McEnroe, and Senior Reporter for The Root Jessica Washington. Great to have all of you here. Margaret, I want to start with you. Tell us, because you like Nikki Haley. I think -- I've heard you are excited about this addition to the field.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. Anyone against Donald Trump I'm for.

CAMEROTA: Then you're going to be for a lot of people because it can be a crowded field. So what do you think her strong suits are that will elevate her to the top of the pack possibly?

HOOVER: Here's what I like about what she said today. First of all, her speech was one about growing the tent, building the party, reaching out. It was inclusive. And that's aspirational, it's very happy warrior. It was I'm going to fight like the GOP base needs me to, but I'm going to be happy about it like Ronald Reagan.

So, it's sort of this fusion of where the party is now and where many of us wish the party had stayed, and would like to see it go. The generational change piece is huge and she has wonderful zingers around that. I think the key with Nikki Haley is that she is the only person who has been able to navigate Donald Trump on her own terms. She left his cabinet at her own time and choosing, without having him say, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

And so, if there's anyone in the Republican field who I think can navigate his peculiar -- frankly bullying, which by the way, she tipped her hat to without naming him. I think that's even a tale of how she'll handle him.

CAMEROTA: I'm curious about that. What happens when he does start going after her?

HOOVER: Well, let's see what happens. I mean, right now, he said come right in, the waters is warm. Where -- on the other hand, he's attacking all these other prospective opponents.

CAMEROTA: Kaivan, you are an Indian American.


CAMEROTA: And she -- both of them are talking about Nikki Haley -- and Margaret, about how she can expand the tent. Do you see it that way?

SHROFF: Yeah, I think we just saw her say she doesn't want to compromise, so she doesn't want to expand the tent. It's really this juxtaposition where almost every statement I've seen from her so far has been -- you know, almost an oxymoron. She's this Indian-American who doesn't believe in identity politics, but once she has celebrate the first minority woman governor in the same sentence, as she saying you know the culture wars have gone to for. She's somebody who you know has changed her name. She's changed her religion. She has identified been as white in 2001 on her voter registration card.

And suddenly, at 50 plus, she's discovered she's Indian-American? So, I don't think it's that compelling, it's going to be a tough sell to the Indian-American community, I think.

CAMEROTA: Here is what she said today about the generational change. So, let's listen to Nikki Haley for a moment.


HALEY: The America I see, the permanent politician will finally retire.


HALEY: We'll have term limits for congress.


HALEY: And mandatory mental competency tests for politicians over 75 years old.




CAMEROTA: I wonder what she's referring to, Patrick.

PATRICK MCENROE, FORMER PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: Well, I don't know. Let me think. I love that she said that. I thought it rolled out, was actually perfect today. I thought -- I mean, she's powerful, she's smart, she's got the background. And she has all the policies that Trump had, even though I think what you're all saying, correct that she's going to do her own thing. As she said she'll kickback if she has to. But I love what she said about term limits. I think -- I mean, you're not supposed to say this, but I'm not a politician, so I'll say it. There's just way too many people that are just too old in -- in Congress, in the Senate, all over politics. And something has to change, in my opinion.

CAMEROTA: Jessica, your thoughts.

JESSICA WASHINGTON, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ROOT: Yeah, I think that's definitely a compelling argument that politicians have gotten too old. I wonder if it's enough. I think she's entering a field with you know opponents who are already incredibly strong Republicans. She's able to speak to -- this kind of, we need to be inclusive. But is that enough in a Republican primary, I don't know.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, is it complicated that she's been all over the map on some things such as Donald Trump? She has flip-flopped in terms of if he's a bully, if he's unfit for office, if she's going to vote for him, if he's great, if she wants to work with him.

HOOVER: Can she run, if he's running?

CAMEROTA: Yes. Is that -- can that complicate things for her?

HOOVER: I understand on the surface that's -- that's an easy place to go. But she just entered the Republican primary, all right. She has one job right now, which is to win the nomination. And being on both sides of Trump, frankly, maybe a liability, may not, depending on how she navigates the rest of the field, and depending on who are competition is and how they handle it.

This is a dynamic situation. We have no idea how this -- and by the time if she does win the nomination, by the time we get to there, hey, you said the thing about Trump two years ago, People are going to be glad Trump is not the nominee.

CAMEROTA: Kaivan, people have short memories about that, right?

SHROFF: They do. But I feel like we're doing her this big favor by even seriously considering that she's running for President.

HOOVER: She is running for President.

SHROFF: Is this really a tactic that she's taking to audition for Vice President.


SHROFF: I feel she's completely an unserious candidate. She has no strong policy positions, she has can't -- on that Fox interview you just played, she couldn't name one policy disagreement she has with Trump. So that's an interesting --

CAMEROTA: Maybe she doesn't have any policy disagreement.

SHROFF: So if she doesn't have any then why is she running? You know, she's polling at 1 percent, so there's really no demand for her to be running. So this is really I think what a politician who has flip- flopped so much that she's really on her last legs here. What else would Nikki Haley be doing right now if not running for President? I think that's a sad state of affairs for a democracy that.

HOOVER: Is she running for President or not running for President? Look, she is running for President. And she is running because she actually believes that she can win. And she's, by the way, been plotting this move in her life for many years. I do think it diminishes her to say she's not running for President. And a lot of people are going to like her. But I do think she's serious.

CAMEROTA: Also, I don't to see the poll numbers today. I think we have to see what her poll numbers are, now that she's in. But I do want to also say one more thing, Jessica, one of the things she's well known for is the confederate flag, getting the confederate flag taken down in you know Columbia, South Carolina, after the Mother Emmanuel Church massacre. And that was different than where -- she started out as, and it was seen as bold at the time.

WASHINGTON: Definitely. I remember that moment. I think that did speak to Black Americans. I remember feeling that that was a move that -- it was symbolically important. There was a really -- it was a very sad time in the community. What I will say about that is, a, I don't know how important black voters are going to be in the Republican primary, and also I just don't know that would be enough to sway black voters even in a general election.

CAMEROTA: That's true.

HOOVER: It will be a Nixon in China, in the sense that it takes a Republican woman of color to take down the confederate flag from the capital of South Carolina. And she leveraged all her political capital at the time to do it. And it was the right thing to do, and you're right, it didn't get or the black -- it didn't win black voters, she didn't run again. It was her second term. But I think you're right. It's not that black voters in South Carolina will come to her defense, necessarily. I think defense will not vote for her.


HOOVER: But that's not what she did. She did it because of the right thing to do.

CAMEROTA: Friends, we have to leave it there, we have many more things to talk about. Thank you all for sharing those perspectives.

Meanwhile, George Santos is telling people he's thinking about running for a second term, after lying his way into congress the first time.

Next, we're going to speak to a psychologist who tells us is someone a pathological liar? What are the descriptors? We'll see.




CAMEROTA: Sources tell CNN, the truth challenged GOP Congressman, George Santos, may run for re-election, even as top lawmakers try to oust him. More details tonight from an homage farmer who alleges that Santos wrote him bad checks in exchange for puppies in 2017. Santos claimed at the time, his check book was stolen. His victims think that it is part of the never-ending stream of lies coming from Santos. Some of his old friends referred to him as a pathological liar. Let's ask an expert.

Joining me now is psychologist Christian Hart. He's the director of the Human Deception Laboratory at Texas Women's University, and the author of Pathological Lying. Chris, you are the perfect person to talk to tonight. I've read that pathological liar is not sort of a scientific term. It's not in the DSM, which of course is the -- you know, bible of mental disorders. But all of us seem to know what a pathological liar is. Colloquially at least, is George Santos one?


CHRISTIAN HART, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you're right. When we talk about pathological liars, it's a very common term used in our culture. And what people mean by it is someone who lies a lot. As psychologist, when we look at the term, what we're referring to a clinically significant pattern of excessive lying. The lying often causes disturbances in their life, problems in their social relationships, problems in the workplace. It also occasionally puts them at legal risk or risk of other opportunities. --

CAMEROTA: Doesn't he fit that bill to a tee?

HART: From what I've read in the news, he certainly seems like he -- he meets many of those criteria.

CAMEROTA: Because he's lying at this point about things that are easily exposed. This is what's so confusing to the public. He's not even lying about things that will necessarily benefit him for more than two weeks, because now, there is -- he's lied about his Jewish ancestry that was easily exposed. His grandparents being hot survivors, no, they weren't. He falsely claimed his mother was in the World Trade Center on 9/11, no she wasn't. He's claimed to have worked for Goldman Sachs and Citi Group, that's easily exposed. No, he didn't. His claim to graduate from different colleges, no, he didn't. They said that -- he said he played college volleyball, no, he didn't. And so, what's the point of those lows?

HART: When we look at the point of lies, we see that people lie when they believe that they can get something that they want, that they can't achieve by using honesty. But we also see that most people don't lie, most people are pretty honest most of the time. But we do see this very small subset of about 5 percent of the population that engages in really excessive lying. And one of the patterns we see with those people is that they don't really seem to have the moral brake that prevents most of us from lying. So for a typical person, though often time have the opportunity to lie, it's unlikely they'll get caught, yet they still refrain from lying. What we see with people who engage in pathological lying is oftentimes they're engaging in risk- taking behavior, and they're also willing to morally justify they're lying as being okay.

CAMEROTA: Is it a mental disorder? Does he -- do we need to see this through the lens of mental illness somehow?

HART: Well, we do see with a number of personality disorders, including antisocial personality disorder, pathological lying is a key component. And so, with antisocial personality disorder, people use manipulation and deception to exploit others and take advantage of others, typically without any guilt or shame or remorse. And so, in that sense, yeah, we look at it as a psychologist as part of a mental disorder. But the types of people who have this mental disorder tend to be in prison.

CAMEROTA: Or Congress, I guess. There, okay. Christian Hart, thank you very much for explaining all of that.

Back with us now, Margaret Hoover, Kaivan Shroff, Jessica Washington, and Patrick McEnroe. Jessica, one of the fascinating's about George Santos is that as Christian just said, you don't come across somebody that often who looks in your face and lies directly to you over and over when you can easily be exposed. So there's something -- you know, the Talented Mr. Ripley, about this, when you can't believe that this is actually happening over and over again. There's something sort of mesmerizing about it.

WASHINGTON: I agree. It is a bizarre phenomenon, to watch someone repeatedly lie. When we got to the cartoonishly evil part with the dogs, that was honestly --

MCENROE: That was a little much.

WASHINGTON: It was a little much. But I think what just makes it almost easier for him to get away with it is that it is so cartoonishly evil. I think it's easy for us to sit and laugh about it, and not kind of talk about the fact that we have a con-man, a clear, obvious con-man, in Congress. That's part of the problem.

MCENROE: The scary thing to me -- again, forget the politics, the political side of this, because it's obvious that they should've thrown about already, Republicans. But they're not going to do that apparently. The crazy thing to me, just watching this, this guy seems like he's enjoying it. I mean, you see him, he's smiling. He loves -- he's on CNN every night, everybody is talking about him. And it's like, he got exactly what he wanted, that's scary.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's why I think he does fit the pathological liar bill, as we've been discussing, and that loose definition, because he's not chagrined when he's caught. He doesn't seem uncomfortable when he's caught. When he's doing it he doesn't learn from being caught. It's like a compulsion.

HOOVER: Yeah, until it actually all catches up with him. Because the Eastern District of New York is investigating him. I mean, this is a guy who, according to his financial disclosures two years ago, didn't have an asset more worth more than $5,000. And now, he's worth $11 million. How does that happen in two years? I mean, you can lie about dogs and that's egregious, you can lie about other things. But you can't lie about getting that much money. I mean, so frankly, the music's going to stop at some point. And probably, Republicans won't do anything about it until there is an indictment. And that is going to be forced out, and then no one could be talking about him. So you know what, --


CAMEROTA: Enjoy it now.

HOOVER: Enjoy it well lasts. It's not going to last long.

SHROFF: You know, he reminds me a lot of Real Housewives in Jen Shah, who's going to prison this Friday for fraud, Southern District brought the case, because you wonder, why did these people stay on reality TV , knowing they committed a felony. And it really is a level of narcissism. But I also think the power of a platform. And we learn that from Trump, but it is reality stars, George Santos, these people are experts at using a platform. So, of course he's going to run for re-election. He's like a shark, right. He's going to keep swimming. And the minute he stops, he'll die.

CAMEROTA: I like your weaving in real housewives.

MCENROE: I don't expect that.

CAMEROTA: Can't get more low bars.

MCENROE: That's the next level.

WASHINGTON: That's incredible.

CAMEROTA: When is the music going to stop? How long will this take, Margaret?

HOOVER: It strikes me that, as we know, the gears of justice grind slowly. One has to be thorough. And what I understand from House Republican leadership, and some contacts that are chatted with their, they're not going to do anything until the legal process works its way through the courts. And so, that takes time. I mean, he may say he's running for re-election, I suspect before he can actually get his name on a ballot, there will be an indictment, but this could go on for months and months. CAMEROTA: And every single week there is something with him. He

doesn't stop. Every single week, there is some sort of scandal, some sort of lie that comes up. I like the one last week where he was saying, Senator Kyrsten Sinema had complemented him and supported him, because she's a really good person. She was like, that's a lie.


CAMEROTA: Even when he complemented her, she was like, not so fast. She wouldn't even take it. This is just what is happened, literally in the last week, senator Sinema's office had to say, that's a lie. He was confronted by Mitt Romney, the FEC where Santos formally declares his candidacy or disavows recent fund raising. There you go, let another financial pickle that he could be in. I mean, the whole stuff, as you guys were saying, the cartoonishly bad stuff - I mean, he is accused and now is being investigated for stealing money from a disabled vet whose dog was dying. That's beyond lying. Obviously, that's fraud. That's theft.

MCENROE: May I ask a question?


MCENROE: As Margaret so rightly said, this process to play out, the legal process. But let's assume that there's some snafu, because we've seen this happen before, right. You think, this guy's going to definitely get nailed. He won't get nailed legally. He says he wants to run again. You think you could win? You hesitated.

HOOVER: No. No, I suspect a Republican Party and the State of New York will find another candidate.


WASHINGTON: Yeah, I would say, I think, at least the polling now is looking like people want him to resign. The most -- vast majority of his voters are looking for him to resign. And I can't help -- I mean, especially as someone who writes for the black community, I think a lot of the conversations we're having is, how does he keep getting away with this you know with a criminal justice system as it is? You're looking at fraud after fraud after fraud, and you're like okay, now he's in Congress? It feels a little unfair.

CAMEROTA: Understood. He's passing bad checks and it goes, my check book was stolen. Why haven't I tried that?


CAMEROTA: Is it that easy? To say your check book was stolen?

WASHINGTON: It's an insane thing.

SHROFF: Well, I think the challenge for Republicans that George Santos really poses is he is a liar, and he is likely a criminal. But where are they going to draw the line? Because there's so many undesirable characters in their caucus right now. If they go after him, it's the next person, and its Gates and it's a long list of people who've engaged in deeply unethical, probably illegal behaviour. And so once they demand accountability for him, it's coming for them. And they don't want to.

CAMEROTA: Okay, friends, thank you very much for all that. We must turn to this now.

The shooter in the horrific racist Buffalo supermarket attack was sentenced today. It was an emotional scene. In court, the families of the victims confronted the killer.



CAMEROTA: A very emotional day in Buffalo, a judge sentencing the supermarket mass shooter to life in prison without parole. The 19 old carried out his racist attack at a Tops grocery store in May, killing 10 people. During today's hearing, a family member of victim Kathryn Massie rushed to the convicted shooter. But he was blocked by security, who then led the gunman away.

You can see it there. As they usher the gunman out. The sentencing also featured emotional victim impact statements of family members unleashing their grief and anger on the gunman for the pain that he caused them and the Buffalo community.


MICHELLE SPIGHT, FAMILY MEMBER OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIM: I hope you are haunted every day and every night. I hope nightmares invade your sleep and convict -- and conviction be your constant companion.

DEJA BROWN, DAUGHTER OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIM: I'm -- and I instead. And I hate you. And I didn't think I'd be strong enough to look you in the face and tell you this. How much you hurt me. My little brother who is three years old going to grow up without his dad. So do I hate you? No. Do I want you to die? No. I want you to stay alive. I want you to think about this every day of your life.


BRIAN TALLEY, FAMILY MEMBER OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIM: I forgive you. But I forgive you not for your sake, but for mine and for this black community. I forgive you. Because that's the only way we're going to heal. But you can best believe I'll never forget your name.

CAMEROTA: The day sentencing was first day charges. The gunman still faces federal charges. Back with me, we have Margaret Hoover, Kaivan Shroff, Patrick McEnroe, and Jessica Washington. Jessica, those victim impact statements are so valuable. I think there's a while -- there were years in court where judges didn't allow that. And the advent of these victims' impact statements has been, I think, so much progress. Because they get to look at the gunman, right in the eyes. I give a piece of their mind. But how about those people say I forgive you? They're just made of something different. WASHINGTON: It is really difficult to watch that. I think the amount

of pain that I think the entire black community, and obviously specifically the community in Buffalo felt after the shootings, after that shooting, after reading the manifesto. I mean, there were, obviously, also names of prominent black activists that were included in that manifesto as targets. I think the fear that that caused is undeniable.

And so for the families, I do hope that this brings them some level of peace. It is hard to say that we can never necessarily get that, I think, in the criminal justice system. But hopefully for those families, being able to say what they need to say. And you have the sentence, hopefully for them, and that community, it is peace.

CAMEROTA: I think so, too. It is some measure of closure. I know that's an overused word. But I know -- I have spoken to families after the victim impact statements. It is some measure of closure to be able to look at the person has caused that so much pain.

He also said, Margaret, that he did this terrible act because he believed what he read online. I mean, here is this just, poisonous toxin that young men for the most part fill themselves and their heads with. And then hate people. And go out, and are violent.

HOOVER: There's a degree of radicalization that happens online and isolation -- it happens in times especially in this time of Covid. But I hate to focus -- look, that is -- that is a problem we need to look at as a country. I don't want to focus too much on him because he is the perpetrator of these murders. It was those victim impact statements.

And there is one that just really, really caught me, the granddaughter of -- who's an 86-year-old grandmother who was targeted and who died. She was murdered. She was a grandmother. She was a mother of the former fire chief of Buffalo. And the granddaughter sat there and said, you know what, what I learned for my grandmother's love. And she had the grace to stand up there. And say, what you wanted to do was poison us and to fill this community with hate and poison and racism. And all you did was immortalized my grandmother. And love has won the day. That is so extraordinary, an incredible measure grace.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. I appreciate now want to talk about the shooter. I don't want to say's name. But I will talk about the motivation because I'm forever searching for how we stop this in the future. And so, knowing that he was indoctrinated, or poisoned, or whatever you want to call it, online. I think is a valuable clue.

SHROFF: Absolutely, I think another clue is that we have more guns than people in this country. If you look at this week alone, two days ago, a shooting in Michigan. By the way, a student at that school was a survivor of the Sandy Hook.

CAMEROTA: More than. There were two at the Oxford High School also. So now, kids are living through two school shootings.

SHROFF: It's crazy. And then yesterday, of course, marked five years since Parkland, and today we have this, and then another shooting in Texas. So really, we are trapped as a country. And we have the bipartisan bill that was just passed. That's a sign of progress, but we need so much more.

MCENROE: You know, it -- it was, good to be able to hear from those families. I know, for them, to be able to do that was meaningful. But to his point, it is about the guns. I mean, I've been lucky enough to travel all over the world as a professional athlete. They have mental health issues all over the world. No other civilized country has this issue. They just don't.

HOOVER: I interviewed the police commissioner of Minneapolis. First Police commissioners Commissioner since George Floyd's murder two years ago. He came from Newark. He had a career in Newark. Now, he's in a Minneapolis. He absolutely is everything that I just said. And this is not a conservative Republican-Democrat issue. This is literally -- there has been an explosion of guns available, ghost guns, track guns, illegal guns since Covid, in a time of heightened isolation where people feel scared or crime has gone up, people feel they need to arm themselves.

And so, accidents occur, mental illness occurs, there's more gun violence because of the preponderance. There's a direct link.

SHORROF: I think the gun industry also has perpetuated his big lie that you just mentioned which people do feel that guns make you safer. But we have data to show more guns mean less safe. And so, I think unpacking that myth in a major way is so important, and not closing up the NRA, or perpetuating their talking point is part of it. And that is part of it.


CAMEROTA: It is not even open for debate anymore as far as I'm concerned. It is the demonstrably true that we are not keeping guns out of the hands of disturbed young men. We see the mass shooters and school shooters. And it happens time and again. They fit a profile, not all of them. They don't fit the exact same profile. But they sure are similar to each other. And they shoot off warning signs and always. They are disturbed. And if they're going to do something, they often post them online and then they do.

WASHINGTON: I think we have to also talk, in addition to talks about gun control. We have to talk about white supremacist violence, specifically and the ideology of that and why that is such a threat. I think, especially in the interviews that I've done with Black Lives Matter Cofounder Alicia Garza, interviews I've done with people in the community, activists, people aren't activists as well, this concern about white supremacy and the type of violence. What we saw in January 6th, we saw with the Buffalo shooting, we saw with the Emanuel Church shooting we talked about earlier.

This is also a huge part of the issue. And black Americans are incredibly concerned about this. I think the most recent polling I saw said that 70 percent of black Americans believe this is the number one terrorist threat to our community. And so, I think that is also something that we have to address. In addition to gun control what is motivating people to take on this ideology that is so dangerous and corrosive? And what should we do about it?

CAMEROTA: Excellent point. Thank you, all. I really appreciate it. Now, to a hopeful story, a mid-tragedy, survivors are still being pulled from the rubble 10 days after the earthquake in Turkey and Syria that killed more than 41,000 people. CNN's Sanjay Gupta is on the ground, in Turkey, with some incredible stories of survival. That is next.



CAMEROTA: We continue to see astonishing stories of survival in Turkey ten days after the devastating earthquake that killed more than 41,000 people there and in Syria. Today, a woman and two children, 8 and 10 years old were pulled alive out of the rubble of their apartment buildings. Rescuers say that the victims were trapped for 228 hours. CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on the ground in Turkey. He joins me now. Sanjay, you've been such incredible work there, can you just explained how their surviving. I thought humans can only go a few days without water. How are people staying in the rubble 8, 9, 10 days without no food or water?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is really, truly, remarkable, Alisyn. I mean, if you look at these types of situations, the vast majority of rescues, people being rescued, 90 percent happen within the first 24 hours. And then, after that, typically the maxim time to rescue a seven days. So, what we're seeing here is pretty extraordinary.

Now, there can be all sorts of different reasons for that. You know, part of it could just be the condition. It is very cold, which is sort of a double-edged sword, Alisyn. On one hand, it makes it very hard just the circumstances around trying to rescue people. But it may also cut down on people's water needs. You typically think 100 hours. That's sort of a ballpark figure, 100 hours is what someone might be able to go to without water. As you point out, people been going longer.

Do they have sources of water? There are certain parts that had rain or is there water available in some way? We don't know, but I can tell you this though. I spent time in the military today. They are still very much in search and rescue mode. At some point, there's some transition to more recovery mode. You don't get that sense it all, Alisyn. I mean, people are working around the clock. People are rising up. And they tend to be up when they hear about another rescue, which is still happening.

CAMEROTA: We can hear that. We hear the whoops and hollers go up. And it is just, as I have said, astonishing to see these survivors. And it gives us so much hope on every level really of life.

But, Sanjay, what about the babies? We've also seen babies and children pulled from the rubble after days. I thought that babies -- I remember having them, had to eat every 3 to 4 hours. How are babies surviving for days?

GUPTA: Again, it is one of those things where, you know, I think every circumstance is a bit different. I spent some time in a hospital for example yesterday. And the initial story was that maybe it survived after many, many days. What we came to learn -- and the story is just unbelievable, Alisyn -- but when this building collapsed, as it was happening, this baby five stories up, was hurdled from the window. And actually came out the building. And then building collapsed. It is sort of pancake at that point.

Families inside, they were able to survive. It took them 14 hours to dig out the rubble. Then they went to look for the baby. And now, we're talking several days and cannot find the baby. They assumed the worst. It turns out, a Good Samaritan had actually rescued the baby, taken the baby to a hospital, the baby did have a fractured leg, had a fractured skull, but was alive. So, you know, the situation that's just very unusual and unremarkable. Again, falling five stories, being rescued by a Good Samaritan, taken to the hospital, and ultimately reunited because someone showed a picture on social media to the mom of this baby. At first, she wasn't even sure it was her child. But then, it turns out, it was and they were reunited Alisyn.


CAMEROTA: I don't think there's any other word but miraculous for that story, Sanjay. I saw that, it is truly incredible. And so, I know you've been spent time in the hospital. Tell me about some of the things you've seen there.

GUPTA: Well, you, know, again, when you start to spend time with these survivors and really hear their stories of what happened to them, we hear sort of the binary, a person trapped, rescued. But there's so many different components to the story. I want you to hear this particular one from Mr. Barber in terms of how he was able to survive for so long.


HUSEYIN BARBER, DIABETIC EARTHQUAKE SURVIVOR (through translator): I got diabetes you see. More important than food, there was some medication in the cabinet and a bottle of water. They all fell down next to me. I swallowed some medication with the water. The bottle was empty. And so what to do? Now, this is a bit embarrassing. I urinated into it. And then, I would drink it. That's the way I managed to survive.


GUPTA: I mean, look Alisyn, extraordinary story of survival, stories of people doing what they had to do in order to make it through this. And you know, that is another example when you actually talk to people here, how these survival stories are unfolding, you hear stories like that.

CAMEROTA: Incredibly resourceful. And he survived. And that is the whole point. Sanjay, thank you so much for the work you are doing there. We wouldn't know the stories if you and Sara Sidner, our CNN crews were not on the ground. Great to talk to, I really appreciate it.

GUPTA: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And we will be right back.



CAMEROTA: Okay, inflation is making breakfast a lot more expensive. A dozen eggs are 70 percent more expensive than they were last year at this time. Staples like cereal, coffee, and breakfast sausages are all up double digits. And now, an article in the Wall Street Journal has a suggestion. Maybe just skip breakfast.

Here with me, Margaret Hoover, Kaivan Shroff, Patrick McEnroe, and Jessica Washington. Margaret, this is worse than that the meat cake. This is like no coffee cake for you.

HOOVER: I actually fundamentally reject this advice. I mean, it is a terrible idea. I think everything your mother told you, breakfast is the most important meal of the day is actually substantiated by the data. I mean, if you have breakfast, you'll have lower -- you would have low blood pressure. You will have low blood pressure. Your cholesterol will be lower. You have less chance of heart disease, less chance of weight gain, all of the things that go downstream from just having breakfast in the morning. So, you know what? Inflation is hitting a lot of people.


HOOVER: But there's a lot of ways you can redirect your resources in order to make sure you are doing a long term thing that is good for you.

CAMEROTA: Kaivan, are you pro- or anti-breakfast?

SHROFF: I have to admit, I'm a black coffee until 2 pm guy.

CAMEROTA: No, no. So you are skipping lunch also?

SHROFF: My take on this article is like what are they going to suggest next? Skip lunch and dinner and you'll save a whole lot of money, you know. It's a really sort of glib sort of response to real problems that people are facing.

CAMEROTA: But aren't you starving in the morning?

SHROFF: I like to focus.


MCENROE: This guy just passed the bar, so it's all about focus.


MCENROE: As a native New Yorker, okay, there is nothing better than going to local diner, getting two eggs over easy, I'll go for the bacon, maybe I'll try to cut back on the potatoes, if I'm trying to be a bit healthy. I'll get some tomatoes instead.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, sure.

MCENROE: Go big on breakfast. If you need to cut back, I would say cutback during lunch. Right? You could make it from -- if you have a good solid breakfast, why not go all the way?

CAMEROTA: Maybe you can. Speak for yourself.

MCENROE: You got to cut it somewhere.

CAMEROTA: I can't skip breakfast. Are you a breakfast paper?

WASHINGTON: I'm not a breakfast skipper. I have to have my smoothie. It is very important to me. And I will say this very bleak advice. I mean, the idea that we are asking the majority of Americans to just skip breakfast, we know there are people with yachts, we know there are Jeff Bezos is out there. It is a ridiculous suggestion that most people can skip breakfast, status quo, and it is fine. I think that's insane. And also, not to take it too seriously, but you know, it is a huge issue. They are people who do have to skip meals in order to survive. But the idea they should be general advice that they're giving out, I don't understand it.

CAMEROTA: Jeff Bezos should buy all breakfast. And I mean, the whole country.

MCENROE: Maybe lunch and dinner.

HOOVER: Jeff Bezos bough Whole Foods and then he organized them to be delivered to our houses. Okay? So he is facilitating our ability to have eggs in our house.

CAMEROTA: At a certain cost. Here's the good news and this is very good news for a lot of people. Bacon is down. Bacon is down, 4 percent. This should be for you, Patrick. Are you on some keto?

MCENROE: Well, I'm trying, Alisyn. You know, I'm making the effort.

CAMEROTA: How much bacon did you consume today?

MCENROE: I tried to eat more eggs, which I think is a great source of protein and probably, arguably, cheaper than buying chicken and meats.

CAMEROTA: Have you noticed how much expensive they are in the last year?

MCENROE: I have noticed that a lot. And that's why I'm trying to spread them, cut down on the meat intake.

CAMEROTA: Well, not if you just eat bacon. MCENROE: I know there's a reason I came here tonight.

CAMEROTA: Doctor Camerota says you have to eat bacon. I mean, bacon, that's like -- that is a gift from heaven. Cheaper bacon, who is not excited about that? But obviously, it's a real problem, people grocery shopping are seeing the food price spikes, but I don't know when that's going to turn around. Because you know we keep hearing that inflation is being tackled. Somehow the eggs have been caught up to that.

HOOVER: To be fair, there is an avian influenza in the egg industry. There is also a lot of demand on eggs because other proteins are more expensive. So there is multiple crosshair or crosswinds happening with the egg pricing.

SHROFF: But I think we are also seeing this frame, you should stop eating breakfast. I mean, massive corporate conglomerates could also contribute by not price gouging. And I think we are seeing that frame of millennials stopped buying coffee and avocado toast. And everything will be solved. But really it is a much more complicated than.

CAMEROTA: You mean, if millennials don't stop buying avocado toast, not everything will just shut down to a grinding halt?

SHROFF: I'm willing to try.

CAMEROTA: That is excellent. All right, friends, thank you so much. It is breakfast time now. So we cannot just move on and go have breakfast. Thank you all for watching, really appreciate it, see you tomorrow night.