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CNN Tonight

Court Docs Reveals Fox News Stars And Execs Privately Trashed Trump's Election Fraud Claims; Tiger Woods Apologizes After Handing Felloe Golfer A Tampon In "Prank"; Bill Maher And Guests Answer Viewers' Questions; CNN's Alisyn Camerota Discusses With Panel Late Night Laughs. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 17, 2023 - 23:00   ET



SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Executives mocked Trump's lies, calling then ludicrous, really crazy stuff, and totally off the rails. The revelations coming from hundreds of pages of newly-released evidence in the legal filing as part of the Dominion Voting Systems' lawsuit against Fox News.

In this text exchange two weeks after the election, Tucker Carlson texting other Fox News hosts, "Sidney Powell is lying by the way. I caught her. It's insane," he says about Trump's lawyer Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani's unfounded claims. "Sidney is a complete nut. No one will work with her. Ditto with Rudy," Laura Ingraham wrote back. Tucker responds, "It's unbelievably offensive to me. Our viewers are good people and they believe it," even as those same hosts went on the air arguing completely otherwise.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: All right, these election challenges are still going on and disturbing irregularities have been found and must be investigated to the fullest.

SERFATY (voice-over): On election night, the network first to call Arizona for Biden.

UNKNOWN: The Fox News decision desk is calling Arizona for Joe Biden. That is a big get for the Biden campaign.

SERFATT (voice-over): As Trump's baseless conspiracy theories started to take hold.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a fraud on the American public, so we will be going to the U.S. Supreme court.

SERFATY (voice-over): Carlson wrote his producer, warning that Trump could easily destroy us if we play it wrong. The court document showing a scramble behind the scenes as viewers rebelled against Fox for calling the contest in Biden's favor and a course internally to prioritize profitability over the truth.

After Fox News reporter Jacqui Heinrich fact-check the Trump tweet about votes being destroyed, Tucker Carlson texting his colleagues, please get her fired. Seriously, what the F? It's measurably hurting the company. The stock price is down.

Fox News in a statement argues the court filings contains cherry- picked quotes lacking context as Fox News hosts continue this week to sow doubt.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Was the 2020 election a miracle? Honestly, we don't know. We don't expect to get an answer to it tonight.

SERFATY (voice-over): And the documents also revealing on January 6th, Trump tried to claw call into Fox Business to get on air, but the network refused, saying it would be irresponsible and could impact a lot of people in a negative way.

(On camera): This public versus private narratives extended all the way up to the highest levels of Fox. Chairman Rupert Murdoch, according to these court documents, he did not believe Trump's election lies. And not only did he say in an email weeks after the election that the Trump team's claims were really crazy stuff and damaging, but he even floated the idea of having Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Laura Ingraham appear together in primetime to declare Joe Biden as the rightful winner of the election, something, Alisyn, that, of course, never ended up happening.


ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you.

Here with me, CNN political analyst Natasha Alford, legal analyst Joey Jackson, criminal defense attorney and political commentator Errol Louis, and political consultant Chapin Fay.

Errol, this is not new. It's not new. This has always been Fox's mission statement. At any cost, keep the audience. They would not set up as a news organization. They do not follow the rules of a news organization. They are set up as a ratings machine. And so, their biggest fear is and has always been -- I mean, I was told this directly many times about Roger Ailes, you cannot lose the audience, you cannot lose the audience.

And so, tell them whatever they want here, make them feel good about their world belief, do not challenge their world belief, and the fact that it is now in black and white for everybody to read, that is the stunning part.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, it really is remarkable. I mean, there is a place, even as a journalist, there is a place to be concerned about, you know, the stock price of your parent company or whether or not some politician is going to take on your organization or even whether or not you're going to lose viewers to you rival, in this case Newsmax.

That place is not the newsroom, though. That's not supposed to dictate the questions that you ask in the White House house briefing room. That's not supposed to dictate what the statisticians on election night are going to tell you about what happened in Arizona or anywhere else.

And it so completely took control of this organization they just completely lost their way and they are going to pay a very serious price. I mean, the posture of this case, they're fighting very hard to not let a jury get their hands on this because a jury of ordinary New Yorkers or Delaware residents or Americans in general, when they see what went on here, they're not going to like it at all.

CAMEROTA: Speaking of the Newsmax thing, Chapin. They were so afraid after the election that Newsmax was peeling off their viewers because Newsmax was tacking to the right and saying, you know, plausible, even crazier, worse, more garbage and information.

So, Tucker Carlson texted his producer. "Do the executives understand how much credibility and trust we've lost with our audience? We're playing with fire for real. An alternative like Newsmax could be devastating to us."


And then to what Errol was saying -- I will get to the Jacqui Heinrich part later, because when a real journalist sneaks in, they don't like that. But in any event, they were worried that Newsmax was going to steal their viewers.

CHAPIN FAY, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Yeah, it is a real concern. You know, like both of you have stated sort of, I mean, this is the problem with Corporate media and corporate America. I mean, the profit is what

drives everyone. The way you make that profit is keeping the audience, keeping the eyeballs, fighting for clicks.

And a lot of companies -- I don't think this is a Fox News problem. I think this is an American problem, maybe even a global problem of the tension between news, audiences, and entertainment. I would argue a lot of the shows that bill themselves on a lot of networks as news are actually not news, they're entertainment.

CAMEROTA: Fine, but it doesn't always lead to an insurrection. In other, words, when you masquerade as a news organization, the people, your viewers, believe that they're getting real information. And so, the crying shame is when you know the real information, you are mocking the guests who come on, and one minute later, you are touting them as though they are giving your viewers real information.

By the way, it shows how little respect they have for their viewers. They don't trust their viewers to know the truth, to be able to handle the truth. I guess they think their viewers are too fragile or too damn to see the truth if they had just given it to them.

FAY: Yeah, I think it's a big problem. I really do. I would find it, you know, a little hard to blame Fox News, you know, for the insurrection, although there's plenty of blame to go around for that. You know, a disastrous point in our history, in my opinion.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, I'm not blaming them. I'm just blaming the misinformation. I think they play with fire and we saw what happens.

And more thing, Natasha. So, there are real journalists there. Real journalists to go and work there. One of them is named Jacqui Heinrich. She was fact-checking one of Donald Trump's bits of misinformation.

And then this is the treatment that she got. Tucker told Sean Hannity, "Please get her fired. Seriously, what the F? I am actually shocked. It needs to stop immediately, like tonight. It is measurably hurting the company. The stock price is down. Not a joke." In other words, don't let the facts get out there.

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It is egregious. It is terrifying. It certainly is not something that would make a real journalist want to gravitate towards that organization. So, God bless the ones who actually are there still trying to do their job.

I think history is informative. You know, 1968 Kerner Commission report, we're looking at riots all across America, destruction, anger, and racial division. They said that the media played a role in that. The media perpetuated this idea of two Americans. It did not really report about what was happening in Black communities. Therefore, there was a lack of understanding across groups.

And so, Fox News perpetuates that legacy today, feeding this idea that there are two Americas and, you know, again, insulting their audience's intelligence.

CAMEROTA: Errol just said, Joey, that Fox News is going to pay the price. Are they going to pay the price?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I really do believe that, and I believe that sincerely. So, listen to these words. Knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard as to the truth. Knowledge of falsity, reckless disregard as to the truth. You have a solemn responsibility as a journalist. It is one thing if you're reporting fair comment, and that is with respect to what the president is espousing, believing, and his crew is believing as to the election.

It is another thing if you're embracing that as fact and delivering that to your audience. You have knowledge as to that falsity, clearly, and if you don't, there is reckless disregard as to the truth. Why do I say that? Because around a lawsuit is a legal standard, and that is the legal standard upon which this is going to be evaluated.

And when you max that legal standard, Alisyn, against the facts that you are talking about, right, we hear them as journalists going on, oh, real problems, is the election stolen, it does not look good, but behind the scenes, really, alluding to people as nut bags, kind of embellishing, but essentially saying that this is ridiculous, we know these claims.

This is damning evidence that ultimately, Errol pointed out, they are trying to keep it from a jury. But if you get it to people who have reasonable minds, right, and reasonable views, I think they are going to reject this and otherwise indicate that they violated that. CAMEROTA: What if Fox says, as they do, this is freedom of the press?

JACKSON: You have -- look, listen, there is a First Amendment right that we hold very dear in this country. And you have a right based upon that First Amendment to say things that you want to say. But, you know what? You can't defame another person because that is where it crosses the line.

You are right to say what you want to say, stops when it impedes somebody else's right. You cannot yell "fire" in a theater. We've all heard that before. And so, there is limitation. If you want to report things, report them. If you want to espouse them as fact, then pay the price because it was knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard.

LOUIS: It's interesting because Dominion Systems, they're making the case that they were just road kill on the way to Fox trying to hold its audience, get ratings, make money, whatever it was they were after. But the reality is that this is a company that operates, I think, in 26 states, 28 states.


They say that they've lost out on over $100 million worth of business because there are local jurisdictions who are saying, you know, Dominion steals elections, they are unreliable, they are run by Hugo Chavez's ghost or something like that. For whatever reason, they say they've lost out on business.

And so, this defamation per se just, you know, lying about somebody framed them, but they're also saying there's some tangible harm here and they want to take that to a jury, and they're asking for over a billion dollars.

JACKSON: Quick point, Alisyn. The reason that's so significant is because you have to establish damages. It's one thing just to espouse things and no one cares and it doesn't represent any true detriment to your company. It's another thing to espouse things that really damage you. And that's why they're suing for a billion in change. This was damaging and impaired their brand, and it was not true.

CAMEROTA: It will be interesting to see what happens next. Thank you all for that.

Okay, when we come back, the stunt that Tiger woods pulled the other day that may make you wonder whether he's 47 or 7. All right, I will a tell you about it. He handed his playing partner Justin Thomas a tampon after he outdrove him in a PGA tour event. Translation, you play like a girl. He's, of course, one of the biggest names in sports, and he's also the dad of an athletic daughter. So, we'll discuss it all, next.



(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAMEROTA: Tiger Woods is apologizing for a joke he played on the golf course this week. The 15-time major champion handing fellow golfer Justin Thomas a tampon during the first round of the genesis invitational yesterday implying that Justin plays like a girl. Woods says he did not mean to offend anyone.


TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: It was supposed to be, you know, a funny game. Obviously, it hasn't turned out that way. If I offended anybody, it was not the case. It was just friends having fun. And as I said, if I offended anybody in any way, shape or form, I'm sorry. It was not intended to be that way. It's just, you know, we play pranks on one another all the time and virally I think this did not come across that way, but between us, it's different.


CAMEROTA: Joining me now, CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan. Her new column in "USA Today" calls out Tiger Woods. Christine, great to see you. So, Christine, why can't this just be a sophomoric joke between two friends?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: It could, Alisyn. As I wrote in the column and as I'll say to you right now, it's certainly not the biggest deal in the world. We have many other issues, you've been talking about them on the show, that are more important than Tiger Woods and a tampon. A tampon-gate is, I guess, we're now calling it.

The issue here, though, is -- and you said it in -- before the commercial, he's a 47-year-old man, he's not 17, he's not seven, he is the father of a sports playing daughter, a soccer player, 15-year-old Sam.

The idea that in 2023, that father, 47-year-old father, is doing tampon jokes with a colleague in the workplace, of course, visible for all to see, obviously also the best-known golfer probably ever, certainly one of the top two with Jack Nicklaus, a role model for many.

At a time, Alisyn, when the game of golf is absolutely desperate to attract some of the millions of Title 9 women who are being pumped by the colleges with disposable income and athletic ability to play the game, but the game for generations has had a stop sign up saying, no, women, you can't play.

So, throw it all together, and it was worthy, I think, of a column and a conversation here.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. Christine, thank you for all of that. That really spells out -- gives it more context. So, let me bring in our panel to see what they have to say about this. LZ, is anything funnier than the old tampon joke?

(LAUGHTER) LZ GRANDERSON, PODCAST HOST, OPINION COLUMNIST FOR LOS ANGELES TIMES: You know, it felt more like a running joke, right? It triggered something they had discussed previously, right? And so, he was supposed to get the interaction right away. Listen, Christine is right. It's not the most important thing in the world, but it should be important to Tiger because he's an ambassador of the sport. He's an ambassador of the sports industry.

And before we even get to his daughter, how about Michelle, you know, who was on tour and took all that heat and all that pressure of being a woman out on tour, like he was cognizant of that? He was playing well on tour when she was going through that, and it didn't seem as if any of that registered at any point when he decided to pull that joke.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. Errol?

LOUIS: Yeah, I mean, look, when he starts out by saying, if I offended anyone, you know, you almost want to cringe a little bit. It is like here is somebody who is not even aware enough of how you actually do an apology. When you put yourself in the shoes of someone who was offended, you know, sort of voice, the pain that you have caused, and then maybe you try and sort of, you know, talk about what you're going to do in the future, he clearly doesn't take it all that seriously.

It's worth noting that on this same course, the Riviera where he made his debut at age 16, apparently, that's emotionally maybe where he stopped growing up, arrested development.


And, you know, he doesn't seem to have moved much beyond that. I bet his daughter is mortified.

GRANDERSON: I don't know if it is arrested development, though.

CAMEROTA: It does feel a little stunted. I mean, first of all, okay, it's a joke between friends and I take it at that face value, but on another level, just knowing what I know about Tiger, just from being in the media, he has bad judgment sometimes.


He has bad judgment. And so, he seems a little stunted. From everything that we've seen between his marriage, between the lack of judgment, between the car accident, between all sorts of things, he doesn't always exercise adult judgment.

ALFORD: It just feels like an unforced error, just something that was just so unnecessary. And, again, the choice to make it public, that is the part that confounds me because you know you're inviting everyone into the conversation when you do this on camera.


So, you know, we live in a time where people are criticizing us for being politically correct. And so, all these conversations about gender are happening. You just didn't think that this would cause a problem.

As a girl, I remember watching sports and seeing that there was a difference in terms of the seriousness that, you know, society treated women in sports, women's sports. They just treated it differently than the way that they treated men's sports, from money to the excitement to the sense of, you know, community around getting excited about certain games.

So, I wonder about the little girls who are kind of taking this message already living in a society where there's shame around just having a period and menstruating, and I just don't feel good about it, you know?

CAMEROTA: Yeah, I hear you.

JACKSON: Listen, the reality is all of us are here as a result of the wonderful women in the world, right? And so, anything offensive to that, I have to pivot against, right? I have a mom, I have a sister, I have a lovely wife. My only issue is I'm really thinking, it makes me wonder what was the joke played on him that precipitated that.


CAMEROTA: I shudder to think.


LOUIS: Right, I shudder to think what that was.

JACKSON: And so, that's why to some degree, I reserve judgment because I want to know what precipitated that --


JACKSON: -- and maybe we didn't catch that such that we know what this was all about.

CAMEROTA: My imagination was trying to run through the sophomoric jokes from high school of what that could possibly be. Yeah, go ahead.

GRANDERSON: I was going to say, I think it's also important that we don't just solely make it about emotions and say offensive, right? Because actually, these jokes are attached to a hierarchy that actually imposes law, economy.

I mean, when you think about like the pink tax, if you wore a blouse, you took it to the dry cleaner, it would cost more. This is an extension of that. So, it isn't just about the emotions and feeling offended. It is part of a larger messaging that he's undergirding.

CAMEROTA: Christine, you've been listening to all of this. I mean, what about my point that he doesn't exercise good judgment in public always?

BRENNAN: Oh, you can say that again and again and again. My goodness, the car accident two years ago, terrible situation. Thankfully, he lived through it. Thankfully, didn't kill a family as he crossed over the road. Basically, torching his entire family life and his image back in 2009 with another car accident that led to losing sponsors and many, many people realizing, with the mistresses and the divorce, that Tiger was not the guy they thought he was.

Golf is very much a boys' club and a boys' world and a man's world, and that is something that the leaders of the game of golf are desperately trying to get women to play the game. And Tiger has done damage to that because you could foresee a situation where there's a young woman who's got so many sports options and, wait a minute, do I want to hang in and run a sport where a dude is giving a guy a tampon in 2023?

So, Tiger is responsible for the growth of the game, the joy he has shown to so many. I've covered all these majors. He is an incredible player. He has gotten to be, I think, more centered and grounded and nicer, frankly, with all the issues that have come along in his life, the difficult times. He's playing on a leg that has been rebuilt. He's giving it a go again at 47.

As we said, it's not the biggest deal in the world, but for those who are wondering what the real Tiger is, that's the real Tiger. Yacking it up in a misogynistic way with his daughter at home, and let's hope he can try to explain what the heck he meant about, you play like a girl, to his daughter and to the girls out there who are watching him.

CAMEROTA: Christine, are we sure that he meant for the public to see it? I mean, he's putting it into the palm of his friend's hand. Could it just have been a private joke between two friends?

BRENNAN: Oh, I think that was the case, Alisyn. Absolutely. He was trying to slip it in there. People haven't seen the video. It's very easy to find, and the still pictures. Oh, for sure --

CAMEROTA: It was a private joke? For sure you're saying it was a private joke or no, for sure he wanted --.

BRENNAN: I am certain that he -- in fact, the way he slipped it into his hand made it clear that he understood that he better keeps this private. That this is a little secret on the side, which tells us even more. It speaks volumes about he knew that he shouldn't be doing it. And he's also Tiger Woods. As you said earlier, the cameras will be on him no matter what. So, nice try, Tiger. That's not going to fly. Tiger had cameras around him since he was a couple of years old playing on "The Mike Douglas Show" with Bob Hope.

So, you know, that's Tiger's life, and he knows it as well as anyone.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, I see it differently. If it was just a private joke between friends, I mean, I don't want any of my private jokes with my friends broadcast on television.

(LAUGHTER) JACKSON: Well stated.

CAMEROTA: Yes. So, I see it, I see it a little bit differently. But, you know, whatever. I mean, I don't know what more we can say about this.


Tiger is -- Tiger is a phenom, but perhaps not on every level of humanity as he's exercising the best judgment as he does on the golf course. Everybody would agree?

JACKSON: I think that would be a very fair assessment.

CAMEROTA: All right.


CAMEROTA: All right


CAMEROTA: Thank you all very much. Okay, meanwhile, next, we have CNN's presentation of HBO's "Overtime with Bill Maher." So, stick around for that, and then we will be back on the other side to talk about a lot more juicy stuff.




CAMEROTA: Okay, now, I'm going to turn it over to our friends at HBO. Each week, following "Real Time with Bill Maher," Bill and his guests answer your questions and they bring their unique perspectives to the topics that are driving the national conversation. So, we are excited to bring you this lively discussion first every Friday night. So, here is "Overtime with Bill Maher."



BILL MAHER, HBO POLITICAL TALK SHOW HOST: Okay. Here we are on CNN. Wow, I'm still so excited about this. Our panel tonight, we have Academy Award-winning actor Christoph Waltz, MSNBC Host Ari Melber, and ABC News' Sarah Isgur.

Okay, first of all, (INAUDIBLE) when we sat down? I mean, the last piece I was doing was about people in showbusiness who hate each other. Have you been on sets like that?

CHRISTOPH WALTZ, ACTOR: Well, of course.


WALTZ: I've been in sandboxes when I was five --

MAHER: Right.

WALTZ: -- playing with kids that I hated. It was about playing together, not about hating someone.

MAHER: But my point was, you know, you can hate each other and still make something great. There are many movies like that and government should do it, too. Okay. Speaking of movies, what does the panel think of the climate activists who glued themselves to the red carpet at the Berlin Film Festival? Have you been to the Berlin Film Festival?

WALTZ: Not when someone was glued to the red carpet.


MAHER: Are these stunts effective or just an annoying disruption?



SARAH ISGUR, POLITICAL ANAYLST, ABC NEWS: Better than throwing soup at priceless works of art. I'll take the glue on the carpet. Nobody cares.


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Was it -- was it natural glue?


ISGUR: Vegan.

WALTZ: It's about sniffing glue.


WALTZ: Okay.

MAHER: YouTube star Mr. Beast is receiving backlash for -- are you familiar with Mr. Beast? Everyone familiar --

WALTZ: I'm not.

MAHER: Okay. No?

ISGUR: He's super popular. He's a big --

MAHER: He is very big. I have heard of Mr. Beast. Never been to cracker barrel, but I've heard of Mr. Beast.

(LAUGHTER) MAHER: For funding cataract surgery -- oh, I did read this story -- for a thousand people. He funded -- yeah, a thousand people needed cataract surgery, and this guy is making a fortune as a YouTube star. I mean, how can you not?


MAHER: If you can make money and do good for other people, isn't -- okay, I don't know what that question is --

ISGUR: He got a lot of criticism --

MAHER: He got criticism --

ISGUR: -- because he used it for ratings. I think the people who got the cataract surgery are too pissed about it.

MAHER: That is not what the -- a lot of the tweets were about -- and these are from some -- somebody in "The Washington Post" said this. Somebody, I think, at "Buzzfeed" said this. They were criticizing him because their point is that you should not try to correct yourself if you're blind or deaf or something. That's like ableism. It's not worse to be blind. It's just different. I would say if that was me, please help me. Yes.



ISGUR: These also weren't involuntary surgeries.

MAHER: I mean, that's --

WALTZ: Does the same thing go for literacy?

MAHER: Ah. Great question.


MAHER: Nikki Haley has called for politicians over 75 years old to -- oh, yes -- be required to take a mental health competency test.


MAHER: I wonder who that is aimed at.


MAHER: Both of them, right?

MELBER: I think it's both. I think she's trolling. It allows her to draw attention to Biden. She is in a republican primary, but it is a subtle hint on Trump. They're both older politicians. The competency test is a really long campaign, and people will assess how they seem.

MAHER: But shouldn't we do that for everybody? Why just over 75? Because --


MAHER: I mean --


MAHER: Hear my 35-year-old --

WALTZ: House of Representatives.


MAHER: Right.

MELBER: There's only one age requirement. The Constitution has a minimum age and that was because they were so worried people passing things on to their famous sons at the time. There's no maximum age, but we have that for pilots and other things. But, again, I think it's hard. If you've covered these things, you know how it is. It's hard to run for president. We'll see how they do, and then you're going to decide at the debates and other forums whether they got it.

ISGUR: Well, as Don Lemon told us on CNN, women actually can't run for president because he said we're past our prime once we get to our 40s, but since you have to be 35 to run, there is really tight window between 35 and 40.



MAHER: But it presupposes that's the only way you can be mentally incompetent. I mean, I would take a guy who is 90 and forgets a few things, but he has seen a lot in his life and has the experience. Of course, if you're -- if you have Alzheimer's, you don't remember who your wife is, obviously, that's a different story. But as opposed to somebody who is 40 and doesn't have a lot of experience and -- yeah, so --

MELBER: I think you're right. What's funny is I think ageism is real. We see it in a lot of industries.


MELBER: And see it on a sexist basis as well, as I think you mentioned, which is fair. I just think that what's funny is the one place that you see less ageism in our public life would be politics. When you look at Pelosi --

MAHER: Yeah.

MELBER: -- McConnell --

MAHER: Yes. MELBER: -- the current president, the last president who is running for re-election. So, while I do think it's a problem, I think we should be less ageist. We were talking about civil rights earlier. That is one of the things people discriminate on. Having said that, for whatever reason, incumbency, fame, other things, donor class.

MAHER: The voters are --

MELBER: The voters keep going back to some of the choices that are in the upper age bracket.

WALTZ: There is a movement in Europe going on right now. It started by an older gentleman who had to deal with his bank. And the movement is called "I'm old, not stupid."


MAHER: I subscribed to that. What was he dealing with?

WALTZ: With his bank because of the --

MAHER: Oh, I see.

WALTZ: The bank had changed some online, you know. He said, but this can't be understood. And then they treated him like an idiot. He said, no, no, no, I'm old, not stupid.

MAHER: Well, there is a lot of making you try to feel like you're stupid when you're older. I mean, they purposely do things. You know, why do I need to -- what's that thing when you take a picture --

ISGUR: The QR code?

MAHER: Thank you.



MAHER: How do you do it?

ISGUR: I find that for men, it is the most annoying thing in the world.

MAHER: I need to do it to get my car out of valet.


MAHER: I'm not kidding.

ISGUR: Crack a bell (ph).


MELBER: How about when you have to go to fill something out and it says, like, pick the photos with the pickup trucks? And so, it's like you have to prove to this robot that you're a human.


MELBER: Think about it.

MAHER: New census data shows that California and New York saw a mass exodus -- mass, I don't know. Yeah (INAUDIBLE) well of people with their populations dropping by around 500,000 people. It doesn't say over -- is that in a year? Maybe it is or last couple of years. Can anything bring cost of living down in desirable places?

ISGUR: Texas, Florida, Tennessee. No state income tax.

MAHER: Right.

ISGUR: Nice weather and something else. Something else about those states.

MAHER: Is this a referendum on the way we govern here in California and New York? I mean, obviously, this looks like a blue state/red state thing.

MELBER: A lot of it is big offices and big cities. I live in Brooklyn. A lot of those big Manhattan towers haven't filled back up with people, but also that was an urban plan built a long time ago and maybe it is evolving. I totally get it. I mean, in all fairness, it's fine.

If people don't want to be in these super expensive cities and go somewhere else, especially if they don't have to commute to one of those skyscrapers that often, fine. But I think in New York, I don't -- from what we can see anecdotally, I don't think all those buildings are going to fill back up.

MAHER: They're not. And that's okay.


MAHER: You know, I think one of the good things that happened with the pandemic was when time stopped, we got a chance to sort of like reassess, and were saying to ourselves, why do we need to go to work five days? And we don't. Not from -- you know, you probably should work five days, but maybe you could get your work done in four days.

They found that when people work 80% of the time, if they get paid the same, they do the same amount of work because most people in an eight- hour day, they work three hours.


MAHER: So, why not? And, you know, save all that commuter time. I love -- we come to the office once a week now. Well, obviously today to do the show.

(LAUGHTER) MAHER: But other -- yeah. You're welcome. It was a pleasure. But other than that, once a week and that's -- I feel that's perfect. We could do the rest of it at home. I don't need to see my lovely staff. I love them, but like once a week is perfect.


ISGUR: Here's the problem.

MAHER: And I mean that in the --

ISGUR: Totally agree, but we are losing something. I work from home. Take this criticism for what it's worth. But our generation, we already got mentored, we already got trained. I think about like lawyers, like law firm partners aren't going out anymore, and those associates aren't learning how to do a trial. God knows we don't learn it in law school.

We don't quite know what is going to be lost and we have an entire generation that doesn't have anyone actually telling them how to do their jobs because we're all at home in our PJs.


MELBER: I think both things are true.




MELBER: I think both things are true. I remember the very beginning of COVID with the lockdowns. People were like, what the hell, like I can't stay home, like I need to go out.


And then by the end of COVID, everybody was like what the hell, I can't go out to work.


MELBER: I need to stay home.



MELBER: I think you need a mix.

MAHER: Well, you have to go out to the set to make a movie. So, you're going to be out, and we're going to go to the movies together, right?

WALTZ: Not at the same time. MAHER: Okay.


MAHER: Thank you very much. We will see you next week.



CAMEROTA: And you can watch "Real Time with Bill Maher" on Friday nights on HBO at 10:00 p.m., and then watch "Overtime" right here on CNN, Friday nights at 11:30. And we'll be right back.




CAMEROTA: Now, for some levity at the end of a busy week, let's take a look at how the late-night comics are poking fun of the headlines. I'm back with Natasha, Joey, Errol, and LZ.

Okay, so, let's start with Stephen Colbert who interviewed George Santos. Watch this.


STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN, ACTOR, AND TELEVISION HOST: Now, sir, since we last talked, you were forced to step down from all your committee assignments. What have you been doing with your time?

UNKNOWN: Oh, so much. I gave the state of the union address.


UNKNOWN: Shot down those spy balloons.


UNKNOWN: And performed at the Super Bowl halftime where I revealed that I'm pregnant.



CAMEROTA: I mean, they write themselves. They write themselves with George Santos.

GRANDERSON: I think if he decides to resign, that the drag queen should come out and be the one that says good-bye.

CAMEROTA: I don't think he's going to resign. He doesn't seem to have any appetite for not being in the public eye. ALFORD: But I do feel like I could see him on "Dancing with the Stars" or some reality show after. Maybe that's really what he is after, the fame and the recognition.

JACKSON: So, this is a personal affront to me because he is my congressman.


CAMEROTA: A lot of --

JACKSON: Not so well.

CAMEROTA: -- in your district?

JACKSON: There is not even a district office, but, yeah, it's --

GRANDERSON: You should be proud. He performed at the Super Bowl. That's amazing.

JACKSON: Yes. And gave the state of the union.


CAMEROTA: All right. Now, let's listen to Jordan Klepper who has talked to a Nikki Haley supporter who has decided to dump his support for Donald Trump.


UNKNOWN: I voted for Trump, but I will not be doing that again.

JORDAN KLEPPER, COMEDIAN: When did Trump lose your support? The nail in the coffin for me with Donald Trump? Let me guess, Charlottesville.


KLEPPER: Okay, let me --

UNKNOWN: You're not going to guess it.

KLEPPER: Kids in cages?


KLEPPER: The insurrection on January 6th?


KLEPPER: Ah, oh, okay. Wait, hold on, first impeachment?


KLEPPER: Second impeachment?

UNKNOWN: No. KLEPPER: Okay. Invited white supremacists over to Mar-a-Lago?

UNKNOWN: No, but, I mean, you know, criticizing DeSantis before his election.

KLEPPER: Wouldn't have guessed it. So, that's the line right there?

UNKNOWN: That was the nail in the coffin for me.

KLEPPER: I would have guessed kids in cages.



CAMEROTA: That is so good.

GRANDERSON: It's funny, but it's so true. It's so true. I mean, he kicked off his campaign saying horrible things about Hispanics. He just kept flying through all kinds of stuff. And then all of the sudden, there's some weird line that comes up. People are going, I'm out. Like, how did you get there?

CAMEROTA: You can't call DeSantis DeSanctimonious, I'm out.


GRANDERSON: That was crazy.

CAMEROTA: That was -- I mean, we're laughing, but it was funny for him to go through the laundry list of things that he could have jumped off the Trump train during --

LOUIS: Logic doesn't get people into their support of Trump and logic is not going to get them out. It's sort of a humorous dramatization of the reality. People went based on like a gut feeling in a lot of ways, and, you know, you can't talk somebody out of that. So, you can show them all of the impeachments in the world. You can talk about the policies and so forth, but it's like something rubbed them the wrong way, I guess, about some speech he gave about DeSantis?


JACKSON: I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue.

CAMEROTA: Not that one.

GRANDERSON: Not that one. Not that one.

JACKSON: First impeachment, second impeachment. Yeah, it's pretty interesting.

GRANDERSON: Grab him by the Tiger Woods. Nothing.

LOUIS: Losing the election. That counts for something, too.

CAMEROTA: Not with that guy.

JACKSON: Didn't lose the election. Stolen.


JACKSON: Ridiculous.

CAMEROTA: Are we about to see that again? I mean, do we think that former President Trump is going to be on the campaign trail in sort of the same energy -- well, energetic is the wrong word -- with the same level of passion that he had last time around?

ALFORD: I think he might have the same passion, but it doesn't have the same effect. I think both -- whatever your party, there's something that -- you know, you kind of get worn down after a while. It loses its magic. It loses its shock value. And I think Americans have all been ready for something different.

CAMEROTA: I feel like we should fight for our right to party. So, let us just finish off our fun week with the Kansas City Chiefs Travis Kelce singing his signature slogan. Watch this.







CAMEROTA: Just days after that horrible mass shooting in Michigan State University that killed three students and wounded five others, their archrivals at the University of Michigan, the Wolverines, are showing their solidarity. Members of the Wolverines women's basketball team are wearing t-shirts sporting the emblem of the MSU Spartans to show their support and their love.


The team tweeting that Michigan State is in their hearts. And the in Michigan Athletics Department tweeting out photos and saying that Michigan teams will wear special Spartans helmet decals to honor all of the victims. The MSU men's basketball team plays the Wolverines at their arena tomorrow and the Wolverines will wear specially-designed team warmup shirts. Michigan will provide 2,000 t-shirts for students attending the game. There will also be a moment of silence for the victims.

Thanks so much for watching tonight. Have a wonderful weekend, everyone, and our coverage continues.



ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. We begin tonight with the 360 exclusive inside the fighting in Ukraine from a perspective that's never been shown before.