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CNN Tonight

Two Kidnapped Americans Found Dead, Two Alive And Back In U.S.; Republican Lawmakers Criticize Tucker Carlson For Downplaying January 6 Insurrection; Michelle Obama Cried After Inauguration Of Trump. Aired 10:17-11p ET

Aired March 07, 2023 - 22:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN tonight.

You just watch CNN's town hall on the fentanyl epidemic. A little later, we'll talk about solutions, what works and what does not when it comes to keeping fentanyl away from her kids.

First, our top story, what happened to those four Americans who are kidnapped in Mexico? Tonight, two of them are back on U.S. soil being treated at a hospital but their two friends were killed. They traveled to Mexico so one of the group could get cosmetics or jury, and more and more Americans are doing that.

And the Capitol Police Department want Fox's Tucker Carlson to stop lying about January 6th, so does the family of Officer Brian Sicknick who died as a result of the insurrection. Republican senators also calling Carlson's conspiracy theories about January 6th, quote, B.S., a lie and disgusting. Why doesn't Fox support police?

Also, Michelle Obama talking about the day she moved out of the White House and why she sobbed uncontrollably.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY (voice over): And then we went to Andrews Air Force Base, said goodbye to the military, got on Air Force One. And when those doors shut, I cried for 30 minutes straight, uncontrollable sobbing, because that's how much we were holding it together for eight years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in my panel. We have with us, former Congressman Mondaire Jones, the better half of one of our favorite couples, Margaret Hoover, Mike Broomhead, who has his finger on the pulse of Arizona and beyond, and the always compelling Natasha Alford, and our Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller joins us from D.C., with all that he has learned about the kidnapped Americans today.

John, I'll start with you. So frightening to hear what they endured and what they went through. Do you have new information on what happened to them? Where they fired on immediately from a distance or did the drug cartel pulled him over and interrogate them? Do we know what happened there?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, it looks like the drug cartel used what we in law enforcement would have called a vehicle interdiction technique. They tried to, you know, block them, pull them over, when they wouldn't stop, they have a car that blocks them from the front that they collide with, and then they opened fire.

You know, when you look at the pictures of that van, you see the bullet hole in the driver side front window. You see the bullet hole just below the window in the door. You see another in the back of the van. The passenger window is raked out, the tires have been shot out in the rear. So, they meant to stop this vehicle. They opened fire on the people inside. And then they dragged them out.

And then they discovered, and this is the working theory of the case, that they were not interdicting members of the Haitian human trafficking group that was competing with them, but they had run into Americans who had gotten literally lost looking for the doctor's office for the surgery.

[22:20:12]

So, then the cartel goes into cartel mode, which is damage control. What do we have here? How did we get into this? What do we do?

And, Alisyn, that's where you see the machinery of the cartel working, which is they're moving these people from multiple locations, from place to place over days, because they understand both the Mexican government, their intelligence services, the U.S. government, the FBI, their intelligence services will be using ISR signals intelligence, human informants, everything they can to figure out where are these people.

So, they shift them from location to location, including a health clinic where they are there briefly to receive medical treatment. Remember, one of them -- two of them have been killed, one of them has been shot in both legs, broken both legs. And then, finally, they are found by the Mexican government in this wooden house being guarded by a single member of the cartel, who's now in custody. But it appears that the cartel understood we're going to have to get these people back, because this is very bad for business.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And that video, John, that we watched last night was so awful. I mean, just watching these Americans being loaded into this flatbed truck, two of them looked lifeless at that time. And now it seemed as though we know they were. And so why didn't they -- I mean, when they realize they are Americans and that this had gone horribly wrong, why where they moving them around to safe houses and guarding them? I mean, what was that about?

MILLER: So, look at that video. I mean, what you see is you see members of the cartel dressed wearing bulletproof vests, a tactical vests, out in the opening, carrying arms out in the open, doing car stops out in the open. What this says, Alisyn, is that in Matamoros, the Gulf Cartel essentially is the police. It doesn't mean there are not police. There's the state police, there's the federalist (ph), but they control that area because they have more people, more guns, and more money behind them.

So, they are acting as the surrogate government in that area, loading dead bodies, dying bodies, wounded bodies, and an American woman into the back of that truck, where they're going to take them somewhere, talk to their superiors and sort that out. This is -- the reason the State Department says that it's a level 4 do not travel zone is because there is no illusion about who controls that area.

CAMEROTA: Okay. So, let's talk about what's going to happen now or what should happen now. Let me bring in our panel as well. So, Congressman, what -- how should the U.S. respond to this? And let me just first play for you what President Obrador of Mexico said about the U.S. basically keeping their distance and not intervening. So, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR, MEXICAN PRESIDENT: We are not allowing any foreign country to intervene on matters that only relate to Mexicans. We do not get involved in seeing what the gangs in the United States distributing fentanyl are up to or how the drug is distributed in the U.S. Other known networks know cartels who sell the drug, that is a matter for the U.S. authorities to resolve. So, there is cooperation. We are working in a coordinated manner with respect for sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, where does that leave the U.S.?

MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think in a position of strength, given our relationship with Mexico and their reliance on us. Look, no one is talking about infringing on the sovereignty of Mexico but there has to be cooperation, there has to be intelligence sharing.

It boggles my mind whenever I read in hear stories about the cartel in Mexico. I mean, the fact that the cartel literally supplants the role of law enforcement in various parts of this country is an indication of the failure of governance, to say the least. I mean, it's putting it very generously, I'm really holding back here, because the basic principle, the first order of business for any government is to protect its people. In this case, you've got American citizens. So, it's not just the business of Mexico now. I mean, we have a vested interest in figuring out and holding responsible those who perpetrated this.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Senator Graham, Lindsey Graham, was just on our town hall this evening about fentanyl, and he thinks that it could even require a military response. So, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What would I propose that we make drug cartels foreign terrorist organizations and we use military force, if necessary, to stop their poisoning of America, blow their labs up.

You're never going to win this game at the border.

[22:25:01]

We need to tell Mexico you are harboring drug cartels, you're giving them safe havens, they're terrorizing Americans. They kidnapped four Americans, three of them from South Carolina, kill two of them today, enough is enough. So, let's use our every tool in the tool box to go after them at their source.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Margaret, thoughts?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, it's, look, Mexico also wants American tourism, right? That's a massive industry in Mexico. This is going to really put a damper in the flow of Americans going to Mexico and patronizing. You know, this is also obviously we've been talk about how this put a spotlight on medical tourism.

And part of that also is, you know, our own bloated, inefficient, too expensive system of health care. And, by the way, this is not the Republican conservative on the panel suggesting that we should convert quickly to single payer. But what I am saying is if our health care was not so expensive, if we could actually get to the crux of the problem with the health care marketplace in this country and third- party payer and all the rest, you know, maybe we would not have the largest export industry of medical tourism in the world.

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. So, we have about 1 million Americans estimated to be a part of the medical tourism industry. I don't know if you've seen social media videos of airplanes full of people with, you know, bandages just coming out of surgery. So, it's normalized, it's being talked about, and, you know, I think there's an interest. But you can get what you pay for sometimes, right? Sometimes you will pay less and you'll actually get more. We should not assume that other countries don't give quality care. But sometimes you pay less and you get less as well. So, that is the danger.

I also want to say the quiet part out loud. These are Americans. These are also black Americans. And when I hear that they were targeted in some way or assumed to be smugglers, that's racial profiling. That's the reality that other black tourists have faced in other countries as well in terms of being profiled. So, I think the U.S. government has also respond with that in mind because many black Americans are looking to say, are you going to take this seriously? Are you going to treat us as if we are Americans that matter?

MIKE BROOMHEAD, HOST, THE MIKE BROOMHEAD SHOW ON KTAR: The issue this morning on my show, I talked with a friend that's been 30 years of the FBI, their concern is the corruption in Mexico. We just talked about this is a de facto government. How can you trust the intelligence you're getting, any information you're getting from your counterparts, as FBI agents will be involved in the investigation, but are they going back and telling the cartels are we ever going to get a solution?

This is part of the issue as well, is are we dealing with people that are also like-minded in trying to get the solution to this problem, get the people that did this. And so they're concerned about the information they're getting, and they should be.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Friends, thank you very much. John, thank you for all your reporting. I really appreciate it. Obviously, we are going to stay on this until it is resolved.

Meanwhile, over on the Fox channel, Tucker Carlson is pushing conspiracy theories about police officers. Republicans, who know exactly what happened that day, say he's lying. One of them is here, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:00]

CAMEROTA: More anti-police rhetoric from Tucker Carlson tonight. He's trying to rewrite the history of January 6th and the police who fought to defend the capitol and our lawmakers. My panel is here with me to talk about this. But first, we want to bring in former Congressman Adam Kinzinger who served on the January 6th committee. He's now a CNN senior political commentator and honorary chair of the Country First PAC.

Congressman, thank you so much for being here. You know I want to talk about how Tucker is going after the police. Number one, he claimed that he vetted all of the videotape that he played last night with the capitol police. They put out a letter today saying that's a lie. They said, "Last night an opinion program aired commentary that was filled with offensive and misleading conclusions about the January 6 attack. The opinion program never reached out to the department to provide accurate context." I mean, this seems like an easy one to get debunked. What is Tucker Carlson doing?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He's trying to make money. I mean, he's like, look, all you have to do is look at the Fox News texts with this Dominion lawsuit, which by the way, they'll never report, right, because they don't want their people to know that they've been lying to them.

And what you see in that is people that know the truth, but also know if they tell the truth, they might lose viewers. And so, what you have is the cycle right now that Tucker Carlson, who is smart by the way, he knows better, he knows better than this stuff, you give him truth serum, he'll tell you the truth.

But he has to give his audience bigger and bigger dopamine hits to get them angrier and angrier, and that's what this is. The stuff he is saying about these videos, the stuff he is saying about January 6 are outright utter lies and most Americans know that.

CAMEROTA: What's interesting, congressman, is that his audience already saw the other tapes. Those tapes were played on Fox, not as much as they are played on real news channels. However, they were played on Fox. And so, the fact that now he's going after the police and trying to claim that the police were showing the, you know, violent insurrectionists around the capitol, and the police were, you know, in on it and helping them, how does being anti-police, how does that help Fox make money?

KINZINGER: I don't know. So, here's what they -- it's interesting because, you know, they'll go after the left and say, well, they don't understand police tactics. If there is like a police shooting or some kind of a violent thing. I'm seeing right now; they are preying on ignorance when it comes to police tactics on the situation.

You know, they will show videos of police removing a barrier and saying, look, the police invited them in. What they won't tell their audience is actually, no, the police removing the barriers because they were using them as weapons. You see police around, you know, the shaman. Well, what they don't say is the police were outnumbered like a gazillion to one. And they were trying to get this from escalating to violence.

So, you know, they don't respect their audience. It's clear, at least Tucker doesn't respect his audience because he does not give them all the facts and tell them to make a smart decision. He lies to them. That's all it is.

CAMEROTA: Some Republican senators today spoke out about how frankly appalled they were by this. Let me play that for you.

[22:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-): It was a mistake in my view for Fox News to depict this in a way that's completely at variance with what our chief law enforcement official here at the capitol thinks.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): To somehow put that in the same category as, you know, a permitted peaceful protest is just a lie.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think it's bullshit.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): There was a lot of people in the capital at the time who I think we're scared for their lives. So, however you want to describe it, but it was an attack on the capitol.

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I thought it was an insurrection at that time. I still think it was an insurrection today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Congressman, what do you think of all that? KINZINGER: Well, I'm glad they're speaking out. That's a hunted

percent true. You know, this wasn't even just something that you look back and say, well, you know, I'll leave it, but this was a violent attack on the seat of government, the people's seat of government.

And you know, I don't know where all of the House members are, I don't know where the other Republicans. But (inaudible) a bit share of this. There's a guy named Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who made a decision, whether it was a promise to become speaker or not, I don't know. Maybe we'll know someday.

He made a decision to share this, not with CNN and Fox News, not with Fox News, but with Tucker Carlson, the biggest conspiracy theorist. And I'll tell you, what I know about Kevin McCarthy, he probably now has Tucker Carlson's text. He texts with Tucker all the time and he's probably showing everybody in his meeting that he's buddies with Tucker Carlson. That's a kind of thing he does. And he's tactically, look, not for the country, but tactically it's probably a wise move for him to do this. It's terrible for the country though.

CAMEROTA: Well, congressman, if you want to hear Tucker Carlson given some truth serum, stick around for our next segment. Because he's about to reveal what happens when he's given truth serum. We have new text from the Dominion lawsuit that you'll want to hear. Thank you very much for your time.

Okay, so lots more coming up from this lawsuit against Fox, like what Tucker Carlson says in private about Donald Trump. Our panel is here to talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

CAMEROTA: All right, more juicy texts coming out in Dominion's lawsuit against Fox, like what Tucker Carlson really thinks of Donald Trump. My panel is back with me. Okay, guys. I will do a dramatic reading. Now, from Tucker Carlson's texts -- this just came out, hot off the presses.

He says -- this was on January 4th, okay, two days before the insurrection. He says, "We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can't wait. I hate him passionately, Tucker Carlson continued. I blew up at Peter Navarro today in frustration. But I can't handle much more of this. That's the last four years, Carlson added. We're all pretending we've got a lot to show for it, because admitting what disaster it's been is too tough to digest. But come on. There really isn't a upside to Trump."

Well, well, well.

MIKE BROOMHEAD, HOST, THE MIKE BROOMHEAD SHOW IN KTAR: Here is -- I have lived this. I live in Arizona. I spoke out early that I didn't agree with the way the audit was handled in Arizona. I don't believe the election was stolen. As a Republican conservative radio host, you know that you are wading into somewhere where you are going to be called a traitor by your own people.

You know, I'd stand shoulder to shoulder with a lot of people on issues. But when you speak out about this, there is a feeling -- and I knew it was going to happen to me -- that if you disagree like this, that no matter how peacefully or how irrational you say it, that there is going to be a backlash that you are a traitor.

So, I understand, in a way, what they are going through. But when you see those texts, I could not in good conscience say I disagree with the stolen election premise and then go on the air and say, for my audience's sake, I'm going to give them what they want. I'd rather lose my job.

CAMEROTA: Because it's about democracy.

BROOMHEAD: It's about integrity.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, integrity. You're right.

BROOMHEAD: If I'm going to be -- if I'm going to be intellectually honest, if I'm going to disagree with some of the things that happen on the left, if I'm going to disagree with people vehemently about the way people do things on the left, I have to, even if I don't like it, I have to say that my side of the aisle is wrong in this case. And if you're not willing to do that, you give up all intellectual honesty.

CAMEROTA: Oliver, is there any indication that the Fox audience is reading these texts and sees the hypocrisy?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: No, because Fox is not reporting on it and they are just watching Tucker try to rewrite the history and sanitize the violence that occurred on January 6th. I'd also point out that this wasn't just one time where Tucker was very honest behind the scenes about Trump.

You know, he called his post-election behavior disgusting. He said that Trump not going to Biden's inauguration was destructive. He called him a demonic force. He called him a destroyer. There was a lot of stuff Tucker Carlson was saying behind the scenes that he never had the moral courage to say to his actual audience.

And again, I'd say that these people talk about, we need to respect the audience in these private messages that we're seeing because of this Dominion lawsuit. Respecting the audience is being upfront and truthful with the audience, not lying to the audience and not hiding the truth.

CAMEROTA: But they may lose the audience, Oliver. I mean, they were so afraid of the audience turning the channel to Newsmax. They just wanted to keep feeding the audience the drug that they would --

BROOMHEAD: But this is how you say it. Because I have never been this -- I have maintained a relationship -- let's talk about the audit in Arizona for a moment. I have maintained a relationship with the people that did the audit, not just one favor of it, did the audit. Because I was never disrespectful to them personally. I never called them liars or disrespected them.

I just said I respectfully disagree. And fortunately for me, I haven't lost my audience. But I think part of that intellectual honesty is I have to tell the truth. And if I can't tell the truth and still keep my job then I need to go do something else.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, amen. Good for you. We need more talk radio -- conservative talk radio folks that can put themselves the way you have, and congratulations. Thank God for, you know, people like you in Arizona and beyond. There aren't many. Because most people don't have --

BROOMHEAD: There is more than you think. I just think they are nervous.

HOOVER: They are nervous and they lack the moral courage that you have displayed.

MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They have to realize that conservatives and Republicans, correct me if I'm wrong, they do take their cues from Fox News and other conservative media.

[22:45:02]

So, maybe it's something they don't want to hear. But at the end of the day, if you hear it enough, you just have to like sort of accept it. It does not mean you're not going to be republican or not going to vote for Republican nominee anymore.

BROOMHEAD: But part of conservatism for us, is we are -- my brother, my youngest brother, who is absolutely my hero, is been over 20 years in the police department. He's a sheriff's captain in Lee County, Florida.

CAMEROTA: So, what do you think about what people is doing with the police department tonight?

BROOMHEAD: Well, I see this guy think -- but at our core, we are still pro-police, all those things. So, there is more people than you would think that feel that way. They just -- they don't want to go against the tribal mentality of the louder people that are angry. And I think that's the problem.

And I got to tell you, anytime you have over 100 police officers in an incident hurt, it broke my heart. What I saw happen on January 6, I sat in my studio and I actually had tears in my eyes. I love my country, I love the capital, and to watch people hitting police officers with flags and then to defend it on any level, I can't.

JONES: I'll do you one better. I was there in the chamber that day and nearly died alongside hundreds of people. And we have to say something about the role, the pathetic role that Kevin McCarthy in particular has played in this. Because he gave exclusive access to Tucker Carlson, of all people, to this footage, that he knew Tucker Carlson was then going to distort. It says a lot, frankly, about the Republican Party today that he felt

the need to do that. What is it -- I mean, because I think it's broader than when Donald Trump is out of the picture, they're still going to be a whole bunch of people left to want to hear the stuff that Donald Trump was saying about January 6.

HOOVER: I want to pick up on that because you raise that and Representative Kinzinger also nodded to this right at the end of his comments. And it's that, actually, Kevin McCarthy giving Tucker Carlson access -- exclusive access to that footage was a power play in the context of the Republican Party.

Because now, all of his conference knows that he and Tucker Carlson are bodies. And the truth is, Tucker Carlson has just had much power -- probably more -- than the Speaker of the House, the person who is third in line for the presidency, within the context of the Republican Party.

CAMEROTA: But do you think what this might do for Tucker to go after the capitol police? I mean, is that a misfire on his part? Because he is saying that they were ushering the, you know, peaceful protesters around, like they were sightseers.

HOOVER: He misrepresented and mischaracterized and lied, if you want -- about the role of the police. I think, in the long term, probably not, but in the short term, I think he's got 3 million viewers tonight who are probably saying, oh --

DARCY: These lies about January 6 have saturated right-wing media since basically January 6. And so, it's part -- it's like part of the profit model, like this is the engine that's really been driving the stuff. Tucker Carlson is actually just one who just knows what is motivating the base and is happy to just say whatever, however shameless it is. Obviously, we know he doesn't believe this stuff, right, at least a lot of it. But he knows what gets the base going and he just feeds it to them.

CAMEROTA: Yeah.

JONES: Talking negatively about capitol police is not going to harm Tucker Carlson. There are so many House Republicans who have come out and supported defunding the FBI. They support law enforcement when it's convenient for them. And when it's not convenient for them, they just pretend as though it's not a law enforcement issue.

BROOMHEAD: But it's not just -- to lump the entire Republican Party in that, I think, is a little bit too much. I would say to you that that there are many people --

JONES: I agree --

BROOMHEAD: -- that I hear from, elected officials that are saying the same thing, that we like what you are saying. The problem, is in order for them to get re-elected or to keep their ratings, they are saying some things that they know that the audience wants.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

BROOMHEAD: And they are afraid to, you know, go against it.

CAMEROTA: But we do hear those Republicans senators --

BROOMHEAD: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- saying that it was B.S.

BROOMHEAD: And let's see what happens to them now, tomorrow.

HOOVER: Probably -- well, Tucker Carlson might blow them up. But this is also the genius of our founders and having 6-year terms as opposed to two-year terms. I mean, you got the reasonable Republicans are dis proportionately centered in the Senate.

JONES: And having to run statewide.

CAMEROTA: All right, guys, thank you very much for the lively conversation. Stick around, please, because Michelle Obama is opening up about her, quote, "uncontrollable sobbing" after Donald Trump's inauguration. What else she thought about that day. So, we're going to play that for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:00]

CAMEROTA: Former First Lady Michelle Obama says she cried for 30 minutes after she left the White House for the last time, calling it, quote, "uncontrollable sobbing," in her new podcast, "The Light Podcast."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, HOST, THE LIGHT PODCAST: After the inauguration, and we know whose inauguration we were at, that day was so emotional on so many different reasons. We were leaving the home we had been in for eight years, the only home our kids really knew. They remembered Chicago but they had spent more time in the White House than anywhere. So, we were saying goodbye to the staff and all the people who helped to raise them.

There were tears. There was that emotion. But then, to sit on that stage and watch the opposite of what we represented on display. There was no diversity. There was no color on that stage. There was no reflection of the broader sense of America. And many people took pictures of me. And, like, you weren't in a good mood. No, I was not.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: We are back now with our panel. Natasha, how did you hear that?

NATASHA ALFORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that I understand. This first lady, she remains one of the most popular first ladies. So, let's get that out there, right. And she managed to do that with such grace and dignity, right? So many attacks on her husband. Watching this transfer of power to a man who called for her husband's birth certificate. Think of the insults that she endured. And yet, again, she made the White House a place that was for all Americans.

[22:55:00]

She opened the door. She said this was the people's house. So, I imagine from many levels, not just politically, but as a mother, as she said, this was an incredible transition for her. And so, I understand the tears. I think a lot of people were at home crying with her.

CAMEROTA: Margaret?

HOOVER: Yeah. I have a lot of empathy for her and a lot of sympathy for her. By the way, like she said on that stage, kept a straight face. Guess who didn't? George W. Bush, the former president. Remember he had -- when he heard the "American Carnage" line, he said that was famously was reported to have said, well, that was some weird S.

CAMEROTA: Yeah.

HOOVER: So, yeah, like you have a lot of sympathy for anyone in that position. But it's also eminently a very personal transition. I mean, she raised her children there. She lived there. She had deep relationships and meaningful relationships and moments that where they are -- and you can't take that sort of personal element away from it either. So, I have a lot of sympathy for her.

CAMEROTA: Jay, how did you sneak in here? I didn't even introduce you. Jay Michaelson, how are you?

JAY MICHAELSON, COLUMNIST, ROLLING STONE: I entered the side door.

CAMEROTA: What did you do with Mondaire? Where is Mondaire? Welcome.

MICHAELSON: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: How do you hear what the first lady said there in the podcast?

MICHAELSON: You know, I just was really struck. There's almost this national conversation about what strength looks like right now. And for me, you know, for her to sort of show this vulnerability, for me, was such a sign of strength and of real power. You know, there were a lot of folks who would say, oh, that's weakness, you know.

I can imagine the sort of headlines, you know. Oh, it's a great way to own the libs, right? Or, you know, Michelle Obama was crying for half an hour. But I thought that that was so beautiful, first that she had that experience and then that she felt able to share that. It felt like a really profound and strong moment.

CAMEROTA: And that's very interesting because it took her awhile to share that. So, it's been a few years. She's written two books. Now she has this podcast. She's sharing it. But there was a time in 2017 when she went on some late-night show, I don't know if it was Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon.

But she joked about it. "What was I thinking that day? I said, bye Felicia." And she just gave a quip. And now this seems like the more, possibly, authentic line.

MICHAELSON: Yeah. It's been a few years, right? And, you know, I think some of that might be just coming, you know, wisdom that comes from age. But some of it is that she doesn't have to show that certain face anymore, right? She's not just the recently ex first lady. Time has passed and I feel like there's a space for her to be even more herself.

CAMEROTA: Okay, everybody, stick around, if you would. There are plenty of words that have been placed on the don't say list lately. Is that list getting too long? You will hear what my next guest has to say about that and what new words we can't say. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)