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CNN Tonight

Three Children, Three Adults Killed In Nashville Elementary School Shooting; Israeli Prime Minister Announces Delay To Judicial Overhaul Amid Huge Protests; Prime Minister Netanyahu Delays Judicial Overhaul; Miley Cyrus And Dolly Parton's Song Deemed Controversial; Terry Sanderson Testifies In Ski Trial. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired March 27, 2023 - 22:00   ET




ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.

We're waiting for the release of the video from the latest deadly school shooting in the U.S. Three families sent their children to Covenant School in Nashville today, not knowing their children would never return. The head of the school, a substitute teacher and a custodian were killed, too.

Can you imagine? Of course, you can. Because at this point in this country you've either lived through in that shooting or you've imagined it. We cannot keep having the same conversations over and over again. Tonight, we try to find a different way to talk about it.

Plus, listen to this 2017 duet from Dolly Parton and Miley Cyrus.

Did you hear those inflammatory words there about rainbows? Tonight, we're going to talk about why that song was deemed too controversial by one Wisconsin elementary school.

And Gwyneth Paltrow's accuser took the stand in that ski collision trial today at his story was very different from hers. We're going to play for you what happened in court.

But let's begin with the latest school shooting in Nashville today. I want to bring in my panel, Los Angeles Times Columnist L.Z. Granderson, star of CNN John Berman, former Senate Candidate Joe Pinion and Commentator Ana Navarro. Guys, thanks so much for being here.

Before we start, let me just bring everybody up to speed about what we know about this school shooting at this hour. So, police say the suspect had attended that elementary school, may have resented going there.


CHIEF JOHN DRAKE, METRO NASHVILLE POLICE: There is some belief that there was some resentment for having to go to that school. We don't have all the details of that just yet. And that's why this incident occurred.


CAMEROTA: Police say they're still investigating whether the suspect identified as transgender and whether that played any role, whatsoever. They say the suspect was a 28-year-old Nashville residents armed with two AR-style weapons and a handgun and killed by police at the scene. Police say they found the shooter's writings and detailed maps of that school.

Okay. So, let me bring in our panel now. So, John, as I said, we can't keep having the same circular conversation. We have it all the time. You and I have reported on these all the time. I'm not sure what to do differently. I'm not sure what we can do differently at this point.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Look, you said you're going to start with what we know. What we know is six people are dead, including three children. The names Evelyn Dieckhaus, Hallie Scruggs, William Kinney, Katherine Koonce, Cynthia Peak, Mike Hill, we know they're dead.

CAMEROTA: Nine year olds.

BERMAN: Three of them nine year olds. Everything else, to an extent, is background noise at this point, right? It's just different sets of facts, six people dead, next week, it will be 12, the week after that, it will be 24. What I continue not to understand is why -- everyone has to be against this, right? Everyone has to be against it.

I know that sounds trite, but I'm assuming everyone is against it. So, why can't people agree to get in a room and talk about it? Just get in the room and talk about it. If some people think it's about guns, that's fine. If some people think it's about mental health, that's fine. If some people think it's about a third thing that's fine. Get in a room, talk about it, argue about it until you come up with a few things you agree with that can get the country together to work, to end this or at least slow it down.

CAMEROTA: Why don't we do that, L.Z.?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, we have, right? I think the problem is that the it, to talk about it, the it continues to be a moving target because every mass shooting is different, so every incident of gun violence is different.

And so when we get into that room, we need to be specific in terms of what exactly are we talking about. You mentioned mental health conversation. Yes, that is one aspect of it. We don't know it was an aspect of this particular shooting but we know that, based upon history, that mental health is a part of the conversation. But we need to be specific in terms of how we're going to address it and not just say gun control, because that doesn't tell us anything, whatsoever. It's too blanketed.

CAMEROTA: I just feel, again, that if we're talking about what we can't do because we don't have enough information yet, yes, they're all different, but, in some ways, they're all the same. They're often perpetrated by AR-style rifles. That's just the truth at this point in time. That's the truth. And they are people with some sort of beef or mental health issue. That just seems to be a commonality.


Joe, what's your suggestion?

JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I think first and foremost, we have to have compassion for those victims, for those families, for that community that was impacted. So, we have to start there. I think, again, to your point, there are multiple factors. I think the overwhelming issue is that we do not have national best practices for preventing school shootings, that we have these conversations, be it about the guns, be it about the mental health. For me, the issue we don't talk about enough is the infrastructure. Because, to me, a lot of it --

CAMEROTA: They way throughout the door.

PINION: Well, I think the reality he is that we don't have 21st century infrastructure and I think that can be attributed to --

CAMEROTA: Well, what would that look like?

PINION: Well, I think you have to look at hardening those classrooms, you have to look at hardening that infrastructure.

BERMAN: But what about when it's the supermarket? But what about when it's the Walmart? But what about when it's movie theaters?

PINION: So, I think to your point, but when we start talking about it's a moving target, what are we talking about? I think, specifically, when we talk about school shootings, I think that it is an underappreciated reality that whether you're trying to secure a police station, whether you're trying to cure an air force base, they really talk about bringing more guns, they often talk about what is the infrastructure changes that can be made to ensure that the guns never actually make it through the doors to a place where they can actually harm people.

So, I think that that is an underappreciated reality that hopefully we can now talk about even if you look at what happened in Uvalde, what are the best practice that we can put in place for pennies on the dollar to make sure that those classrooms are more secure and making sure that those campuses don't actually have the gunmen on them in the first place.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I agree with you that we have to have compassion, but I also think we have to have incredible anger and outrage in this country. It is time that we as Americans say we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.

I just saw a picture coming over here of the congressman that represents that district in Nashville glorifying guns, glorifying the type of guns that perpetrated this killing today on his Christmas card with his little children. Yes, it is absolutely disgusting.

And you know what I think it takes? I think it takes every American imagining that that is someone you love or a child you know or you love or from your family that could be at that level of risk. I can tell you that every time I hear one of these stories today, when I heard that, I have -- my husband has grandchildren who go to private schools that are parochial. I thought of them immediately. And I'm sure that's the case for you and for you and for you, and for you.

We all know I have -- I thought guns were not my issue. And I would, you know, talk around it as so many people in the political sphere do and then my cousin got killed at Pulse. And so if we don't all realize that this is now our issue and uniquely an American issue, why does this only happen in the United States? What is wrong with us? Is it the water, is it the air or is it the cowardly politicians who are beholden to the NRA?

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, or is it the proliferation of guns? I mean, sometimes we have this conversation without saying guns, which I find so peculiar.

GRANDERSON: Well, it's all of it. And, again, it's about identifying what aspect the gun violence we want to address at a time. Because, yes, there are schoolmaster shootings, there are church mass units, but there are gun violence happening in urban America every day, which is also part of the tally in terms of Americans being killed by guns.

And so it's about not just getting together and being emotional for saying, okay, this is super large product problem, let's identify one aspect of it. If it's going to be mental health and damn it, Republicans, present some legislation that addresses mental health and stop using as a shield.

NAVARRO: You can't do mental health or guns, L.Z. You can do a mental health and ban assault weapons.

GRANDERSON: You could do more than one, but my point being is that the important part is find something. Do you know that's not even a unified definition of mass shootings? We don't have --

CAMEROTA: I thought it was four or more than four.

GRANDERSON: No, it's not unified. There's -- some system says, you know, it's one of four, I think Mother Jones has a different stat, the Gun Violence Archives use a different step, the U.S. government doesn't actually have a definition of mass shootings. So, it's like it's a moving target for a lot of reasons.

CAMEROTA: Well, hold on, because for this conversation, I do want to bring in one of the elements and that is the incredible proliferation of these AR-15 style or AR-style rifles, and we have with us our special guest, Todd Frankel, who has done a deep dive on this in terms of reporting for The Washington Post.

So, Todd, bring us up to speed. When did these AR-style rifles become so popular?

TODD FRANKEL, BUSINESS ENTERPRISE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: It's been a fairly recent phenomenon just within the last 20 years that they really jumped onto the scene. You know, going back -- and there's the assault weapons ban that ended in 2004, and back then, you know, maybe wanted guns made in the U.S. were AR-15 style weapons. And today, it's one in four.

So, if you just look back since 2012 since the New Year of the Newtown shooting, about two thirds of the AR-15 that are on the market now have been made since then, so it's only been within the last decade. So, these were unusual weapons, you know, not too long ago, and now they're commonplace, and, in fact, it's the best selling rifle in America.


CAMEROTA: And what I thought was so interesting from your reporting, one of the things, it was designed for the military, as we know. In fact, the gun makers saw it as, quote, overkill for home use. They didn't think that it would be as popular as it is now, because who would need it for home use if you're a civilian, right?

FRANKEL: That's exactly right. You know, they were suspicious of it at their trade shows. They kept it at the back. They were behind barricades and only law enforcement were allowed back there. You know, some of the AR-makers in the early days and talk about, you know, being flipped off by an NRA members. I mean, they were not welcome at these events, and that's changed, right? So, after the ban, the assault weapons ended in 2004. You know, once the large gun makers of the industry got behind it, that's when things changed before that.

Before that, you're right, you know, it was -- they didn't see a market for it. They're like, well, why would a hunter want this? Why would someone need this for home protection, but that changed very quickly.

Hey, Joe, during the assault weapons ban, as we just put up there, mass shootings went down. After it expired, mass shootings went up. Is that not demonstrable proof that it would help to have an assault weapons ban?

PINION: I'm not going to argue I don't think it's demonstrable proof, I think that the experts have said --

CAMEROTA: what do you call that?

PINION: Look, I think that the reality is that most people who are more expert than I am have said that the data on the ban is a mixed bag, that you cannot say concretely that the ban is the reason why the shootings went down or up. I think at the end of the day --

CAMEROTA: But when you look at that graph, doesn't it seem pretty compelling that the mass shootings went up as soon as it ended pretty substantially there? PINION: Look, again, I don't want to diminish the reality of the fact that we have children that are being used for target practice by crazy people, and we have to do something. And so I think that the reality that has to start with bringing people in, not pushing people away. There are -- the effect that this nation is founded by people who have a love for their constitutional rights, specifically the Second Amendment, calling them crazy, you're saying that they're glorifying it after expressing a constitutional right that we might not actually think about, I think, does a disservice if the goal is to bring more people to the table to have that conversation.


BERMAN: The number one killer of kids in 2021 is guns. The number one killer -- I'm just saying if that's the problem you have to diagnose the problem. You have to be honest with problem, number one killer.

PINION: (INAUDIBLE) all over the place. If we're going to talk about school shootings, let's talk about it. To L.Z.'s point, I think, again, if we're talking about the number one killer for children, it was the number one killer for black children a long time ago. And no one is talking about the people that are getting killed every single day in urban --

CAMEROTA: Well, that's not true that nobody is talking about.

PINION: Respectfully, I don't think we are.

CAMEROTA: And, by the way, just because we haven't solved one problem doesn't mean that we can't talk about this.

PINION: I think it is an underappreciated reality of everyday life in urban America.

CAMEROTA: Fair enough.

PINION: And I think that the harder truth is that if we're going to have that conversation, that is an illegal gun problem, which is the largest portion of the gun violence and most people experience on a day-to-day basis.

NAVARRO: To Mr. Frankel's point, something that also has changed dramatically drastically in the last 20 years since the assault weapons ban expired is the nature of the NRA, where, you know, he was talking about how members didn't like to have them around. Now, the funding of the NRA, which is in a heap of legal, legal and funding problems, but the funding of the NRA is largely from manufacturers, much more so than it was before. Before, it was a member-based organization. Now, it's the manufacturers who make these guns that are funding the NRA.

CAMEROTA: Quickly, L.Z., I have to go soon.

GRANDERSON: Well, I was going to say we also need to note that 9/11 happened and that fear in this country shot through the roof. And if you think about it, whenever fear hits this country, gun sales spikes, whether it is mass shooting or terrorist attack.

CAMEROTA: Good point and thank you very much for all of your reporting and sharing that with us.

Next, I'm going to speak to the local council member who raced to that school today.



CAMEROTA: We're learning more details tonight about the shooting at a Nashville elementary school. Joining me now is Nashville Metropolitan Council Member Russ Pulley, who was at the scene today and helped keep children calm. Councilman, thank you very much for being here. Tell us what the scene was like today.

RUSS PULLEY, NASHVILLE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL MEMBER: Well, the scene was not very good as you can imagine. I first arrived at the scene where the shooting occurred. They were pretty locked down by the time I got there and then I just transition to an area where I could be of most help. So, I moved on to the church where the families were being reunited with their children. That was quite a process and the children were kept separate from them for a while, so that they could do this in a very deliberate and responsible way.

So, I was able to interact with the children and interact with the families who are waiting for that reuniting to occur. It's just an emotional scene.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, I just want to ask you about that because I can't imagine what the parents were like waiting to see their children and making sure that their children were safe. And so what were the kids saying to you? What were you saying to them during that time?

PULLEY: Well, I was being basically a guy in a classroom, because the kids were huddled in their classrooms down at the (INAUDIBLE), in the church, and they were acting like it was just another day at school. So, I was just basically trying to interact as if I was visiting a school for a day, trying to keep their mind off of what was going on.

And so they were very much interacting like they would normally. Scene upstairs above that in the sanctuary, which is where the parents were was much different. And so interacting with the parents was a bit different, as you can well imagine waiting for to be reunited with your child after such a tragic event.

CAMEROTA: Yes. What were the parents like?

PULLEY: Well, of course, they were emotional. And, you know, all the parents didn't receive good news. So that was that was tough, very tough moment.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Had the kids that you were talking to, had they seen anything. Were all of these nine year olds who were killed, do you know if they were all in one classroom? PULLEY: I don't know any of the details, because, as I said, I was with the families. So, I have really no detailed information about what we're doing there. And my conversations with the children were not as witness interviewer.


They were basically just trying to interact with them and make sure they were happy during a time when, you know, this could be stressful for them.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I don't know if you've seen the Christmas card we were talking about in our previous segment. It's from a Republican U.S. congressman whom you perhaps know, Andy Ogles, and the Christmas card that he sent out is with he and I assume his wife holding what looked like a AR-style rifles. I can't see it clearly enough to see if the kids are also holding guns. I can't tell. Okay. At least one is, maybe too. What are your thoughts on a Christmas card like that?

PULLEY: I don't like it. I don't think very many people do. I did see it. But, again, my thoughts are with the families right now, and it's really a raw emotional time for us here. Of course, I don't like anything like that from a public figure.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, it's hard to know how that helps the situation. And in terms of the families there right now, were you there when the parents actually were able to hug and kiss their children?

PULLEY: Yes, and it was done very systematically. You know, we want to make sure and do it the right way and reunite the people with the right -- right parent with the right child. And I commend the school for how they handled this. They were incredible today. I commend in the police department. Those two did this jointly. And I thought it was well done, well handled, given the circumstances.

So, yes, it was great to see parents reunited with their child, their children under such circumstances. But, again, you know, my thoughts are with those who didn't have such good news as well. This is tough for everybody who was a part of the covenant community in this city.

CAMEROTA: Our thoughts are with them too and you. Thank you very much, Councilman.

PULLEY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Now to this, major protests in Israel over plans to make sweeping changes to the legal system. Critics call that a power grab. Now, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is backing down. All of that, next.



CAMEROTA: Okay. Hold that thought for a second. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu delaying a judicial overhaul plan today amid historic protests and a general strike. This is a controversial proposal that would give the government much more control over the nation's judiciary. Opponents say the plan threatens the foundations of Israeli democracy. Netanyahu's firing of his defense minister for criticizing this plan sparked these massive protests and strikes.

I'm back now with my panel. John, huge protests, the biggest in Israel's history over this.

BERMAN: Yes, there has never been anything like this on the streets of Israel, not since its founding if you seen millions of people on the streets like this. And, yes, it's a fight over judges, but -- and that's significant. The policy pros are significant but it's more to me a proxy over the future of Israel, a pivot point here, doesn't want to be the secular democracy, which it has been since its founding, or is it going to turn into a religious nationalist state, which -- it is trending, and much of the population does want that.

And you're seeing these two population centers at loggerheads over this and you saw it come to a head on the streets. And, yes, it's paused right now and they're going to come, maybe reach a deal ultimately on the judges or they won't, but that won't solve these two huge trends that are colliding. It may not be able to coexist together.

CAMEROTA: This rings a bell to you, L.Z., on some level?

GRANDERSON: I mean, it's hard not to think about January 6th, right? It's hard not to think about a dictator or a dictator-like presence trying to manipulate. Don't make that face broth. He's been indicted twice, and let's not do this. Seriously? Seriously?

NAVARRO: And counting.

GRANDERSON: And counting.

CAMEROTA: I mean, what about authoritative? Would that -- does that sound better to you?

PINION: Look, I want to let L.Z. finish. But, I mean, for me, I --

CAMEROTA: All right. So, hold on, hold on. Go ahead. So, you feel that that there is about some of the same power grab-type of --

GRANDERSON: So, I think, yes, there's a reoccurring theme. That is when you have an authoritarian-type of person who's insecure, they don't hesitate to try to use every power that's in their levers to try to make sure they maintained that power. I believe it was at Chile that just got rid of their president for trying to do like the exact same thing.

So, it's not as if what's happening in Israel is unique or not even unique to democracy, it is just the latest example of when you have an authoritarian figure whose goals unchecked, they're going to try to go as far as you let them. PINION: So, I think it's a little different, and I think that it's different because Israel is different, right? You're talking about a nation founded effectively as a Jewish state, even though there is a long secular history. I think, for me, I compare it not to January 6th but to September 11th, right, that we have reached the point now where there are people who are born, who are living, who are adults, who weren't alive when those towers came tumbling down.

And if you look at the history of Israel, right, even the people who were more secular trending, they all understood that Israel was born out of this crucible, this desire to actually codify Jewish existence. And so as you get further and further away from this founding of this Jewish state of Israel, a nation that does not have a Constitution the way that we have the question becomes, who are those people, those elders with the white hair that remember why Israel exists and are trying to create safeguards to make sure that it doesn't actually go out of existence?

Now, you can have a conversation about is he going about it the right way. Certainly, there are people in the streets who are arguing, perhaps certainly not going the way he thought it was going to go. But the conversation is critical not just for the people of Israel, not just for the Arabs who live in Israel, but certainly for the safety and security of the world moving forward, including our interests here at home in the United States.

NAVARRO: Look, where I say it is very different from January 6th. Is that January 6th was based on a lie. This is based on very factual events that are happening in Israel right now. I have tremendous respect for the people that are protesting, for the people that are out in the streets. I have tremendous respect for the Israeli government officials that have resigned as a result of this, something that we saw for four years never happened, right? Under Trump.

They just turned the other way or they just, so, we have to be here because there needs to be governance. We saw the Israeli consul general here in New York. It's a very important position, frankly, in the foreign service, resign immediately, issue a very strong statement and letter of resignation.

And I, you know, we saw it in Puerto Rico to your point about Chile. We saw it in Puerto Rico where people took to the streets and they got rid of a corrupt, ineffective, horrible governor. People like Ricky Martin was showing up protesting. And here in America, I feel like we have lost our initiative in that sense of outrage and that idea that we can change, we can righteously change something that is wrong.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: But you can do protest here. What I think is interesting is obviously millions of people here turn out as well and protest. But in this case in Israel, the prime minister, it gave him pause.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Because you had members of the military who were threatening not to show up if called up.

LZ GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: Right. BERMAN: I mean, this was at a whole different -- this was at a whole different level. And you're also dealing with like a larger percentage of the population that was on the street all at once there. Now, this was serious. This was the, you know, a significant chunk of the population rising up and saying halas, which is enough, enough. We're not going to take this anymore.

Now, Netanyahu, like don't count him out in this. This guy is one of the savviest politicians that has ever been put on the face of this earth. He is a survivor. And he --

CAMEROTA: But how does he thread this needle if millions of people don't want to --

BERMAN: He takes the air out of the balloon over the next two weeks and then passes something almost as much as he wanted to get through this time, but maybe not quite as much or bet that they won't take to the streets again in three weeks.

GRANDERSON: I won't profess to be some sort of like, you know, foreign policy expert. But how is it possible that he believes, given the fact that he's under investigation that he can go ahead and do some sort of major changes and reforms to the judicial system --

BERMAN: Because he's got the votes.

GRANDERSON: -- that appears to benefit him?

BERMAN: Because he's got the votes. That's the problem. He's right --

GRANDERSON: He has -- he has he government, but it doesn't look like based upon the streets that he has the vote.

BERMAN: No. He does well, but their government runs, he has the majority inside the Knesset to pass what he wants to pass if he keeps them together, in theory. If he wants to have these people on the streets, he can push this through.

PINION: I just think most of the people in the streets aren't worried about the indictments against Benjamin Netanyahu. They're worried about their everyday liberties living in the Jewish state of Israel. So, I think that is the focus of why they're in the streets, and I think the schism becomes that people who come from yesteryear, that people who are looking forward, what will the Jewish state of Israel stand for moving forward?

I think that's a conversation that's happening every day. And don't think that the rockets being fired by the Iranians don't give Benjamin Netanyahu the leverage he needs to remind people about those founding ethos of that nation.

CAMEROTA: Okay, on an entirely different note, now to this, the song "Rainbowland" by Dolly Parton and Miley Cyrus sounds warm and fuzzy.


CAMEROTA: But you know you can't trust those rainbows.

UNKNOWN: Scandal.

CAMEROTA: That's why Wisconsin elementary schools removing it from a concert for first graders. Confused? We'll explain, next.




CAMEROTA: I could listen to Dolly Parton all day long. That was part of Miley Cyrus and Dolly Parton's debut. Well, sorry, duet, "Rainbowland." First graders in Waukesha, Wisconsin were planning to sing it at their spring concert but it was banned. Why? Well, a statement from the school district says, quote, "They determined the song could be deemed controversial in accordance with the policy," end quote.

Our panel is back with me. Can we all just agree that when you're banning Dolly Parton, you've truly lost your way.

BERMAN: That's why we can't have nice things.

CAMEROTA: Honestly, Ana what are we to make of the fact that they couldn't sing about "Rainbowland" because here, let me tell you the really racy controversial lyrics. "Wouldn't it be nice to live in paradise where we're free to be exactly who we are, uh-oh, let's all dig down deep inside, brush the judgment and fear aside, make wrong things right and end the fight."

NAVARRO: Listen, what can I tell you? I mean, this is not rocket science. Rainbows are a symbol of LGBTQ and this is an insane extension of the homophobia and all of the banning of everything LGBTQ going on in my state of Florida where people have lost their mind and taking fire everywhere else.

If they're going to ban rainbows, they're going to have to take it up with God and Mother Nature. I don't know what they're going to do. I mean, if you're coming after Dolly Parton, Dolly Parton is the patron saint of puppies and butterflies.



NAVARRO: What is wrong with these people? The homophobia has completely affected their brain activity.

CAMEROTA: Dolly Parton is a national treasure. I think we all agree. Do we all agree on that? Joe, can you agree with that? Finally. We have agreement at this table. People can come together about Dolly Parton. Here's what -- not only is Dolly Parton --

NAVARRO: (Inaudible) developed gun policy. CAMEROTA: We should. Not only is she the patron saint of puppies as

you said, but she also has Dolly Parton's Imagination Library, is a book gifting program that mails free, high-quality books to children from the age of birth to five no matter their family's income. They have mailed two million books each month globally.

BERMAN: Poison. Spreading poison. Sorry.

GRANDERSON: It is this belief still that sexual orientation and gender identity are learned behaviors. That you can be nurtured or talked or exposed --

CAMEROTA: You can catch it.

GRANDERSON: You can catch it. And it's like there's no science to back this up and yet we have all those policies that's actually being rooted in this nonsense.

NAVARRO: The amazing moral authority that is the former state legislator in Florida who was the sponsor of what was dubbed the don't say gay bill just pled guilty for fraud for stealing COVID funds. That was the moral compass that the Florida legislature was counting on in banning all of this stuff.

GRANDERSON: And full circle, Dolly Parton actually donated to help find a vaccine for COVID.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Because she's an angel.

GRANDERSON: Because she's an angel.

CAMEROTA: Joe, you're not going to escape this conversation. Go ahead.


PINION: First of all, I feel like I'm Will Ferrell in the campaign. I do not want to live in "Rainbowland." With the cotton candy unicorns and pots of gold and the socialism, no. Look, this is the insanity, the idiocy that is the result of people not listening to each other anymore. We have parents that showed up that we're concerned about things. Whether you agree with those concerns are not they should not be called crazy. We should have civil dialogue. They shouldn't end up on the terrorist watch list, right? Which has happened.

So, I just think at some point, maybe we all take a step back now and realize that if Dolly Parton can't even sing along with the children, then something has gone terribly rotten in Denmark and perhaps, we should listen to each other, we should come together in the love and whether you believe in socialism or not, "Rainbowland" is a wonderful place that we should all be able to get together.

BERMAN: Also, by the way in Waukesha.

NAVARRO: I'm very, very afraid right now for Barney the dinosaur because he's purple. BERMAN: Banned. Banned.

NAVARRO: And you know, that --

PINION: Barney is terrifying, first of all.


PINION: I mean, that dinosaur should have never been unleashed on children in the first place.

NAVARRO: Oh, my God and the poor green M&M who had to give up her comfortable shoes. I mean, it's just -- it's manufactured culture wars for political purposes and I absolutely will call anybody banning Dolly Parton crazy. Loco.

CAMEROTA: Well, you guys will be very happy to hear that they have substituted different rainbow songs, so it's not like they're completely opposed to rainbows. It's going to be the rainbow connection by Kermit the Frog.

PINION: Come on.

NAVARRO: I love that song.

BERMAN: A known socialist. A known socialist by the way. And journalists which is even worse than a socialist, Kermit T. Frog, you know. I mean, how can they have a song with Kermit then?

NAVARRO: Drain the swamp.

CAMEROTA: Don't start trouble, John. Don't start trouble. If they hear this thing, we'll ban it in a minute.

GRANDERSON: He's singing the same key.

PINION: The slippery slope from safe places to no more Dolly Parton.

GRANDERSON: Is it Dolly or is it Miley Cyrus that really got Wisconsin upset? It is a duet.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. I don't know.

BERMAN: (Inaudible) Miley's godmother.

GRANDERSON: Don't blame me for that.

BERMAN: I'm just saying.

CAMEROTA: And as we've agreed, she should be all of our fairy god mother.

BERMAN: And she's lying too, yeah.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, I think we've resolved that. Admit it. Meanwhile, Gwyneth Paltrow is back in court today in this trial that we've been covering over this 2016 ski collision. Today, we heard her accuser on the stand. So, we've got the details of that next.



CAMEROTA: Gwyneth Paltrow back in court today. She's defending herself in a lawsuit over an alleged ski collision back in 2016. Today, we got to hear from Terry Sanderson, the 76-year-old man alleging that Paltrow hit him on that beginner ski slope in Utah.


TERRY SANDERSON, SUING GWYNETH PALTROW: I just remember everything was great and then I heard something I've never heard of the ski resort, and that was a blood curdling scream. Just -- I can't do it. It was (inaudible) and then (inaudible). And it was like somebody was out of control and then it hit a tree and was going to die. And that's what I had until I was hit.


CAMEROTA: Okay. Paltrow did not seem to agree with that based on her facial expression. I'm back now with my panel. Also joining us is our CNN Tonight's Gwyneth Paltrow correspondent, Scott Jennings --


CAMEROTA: -- senior correspondent, Scott Jennings. Scott, what I like about your expertise in this is that you don't know very much about Gwyneth Paltrow, but what you do know makes you very uncomfortable.

JENNINGS: Yeah. And I was reminiscing with my wife today. Gwyneth Paltrow almost broke up our marriage.

CAMEROTA: How did that happen?

JENNINGS: Well, in 2000 when we just started dating, I allowed my wife, then girlfriend, to pick the movie and we went to see this stinker. It was called "Bounce." And I came out of the theater thinking I should maybe end the relationship, but I prayed to God and he told me to be patient. And so, we ultimately got married and had a family but --

CAMEROTA: Thank goodness. (Inaudible) good ending.

JENNINGS: -- since then -- since then because she chose that movie, she's not been able to pick any of the other movies in the last 20 years. So, she's sort of still paying her Gwyneth tax on our relationship.

CAMEROTA: Yes. So, I can see why you're an expert. Thank you. That also helps make --

BERMAN: You're going to be a witness to this trial (inaudible) call you (inaudible).


JENNINGS: Well, funny you should mention that john because a key trial viewer, somebody who has been watching it sent in some evidence into the trial, which they have then uncovered some messages on a chat --

CAMEROTA: Excuse me.


CAMEROTA: Okay, what is it?

JENNINGS: Yes, it's real.

CAMEROTA: I can't help.

JENNINGS: Anyway, they uncovered some messages from the supposed victim's friend, Ramon, who says at the time this happened --

NAVARRO: Was he Hispanic?

JENNINGS: I don't know. I'm just reading this (inaudible).


JENNINGS: But anyway, he was saying, oh, Gwyneth knocked out Terry today or whatever, and that was before --

GRANDERSON: (Inaudible) Terry.

JENNINGS: That's what the guy said. Now, at the same time, what you heard him about the screaming was refuted by Gwyneth's ski instructor who said she's a good skier and she would never scream going down the side of the mountain.

CAMEROTA: Let's hear that. Let's hear that. Let's hear from the ski instructor because I feel that he would know what really happened on the mountain.


UNKNOWN: Did you ask him, are you okay?

ERIC CHRISTIANSEN, SKI INSTRUCTOR: I had to. That's -- the whole time, I'm removing the skis and getting ready to help them up. I'm asking. Are you okay? Are you okay?

UNKNOWN: So, the answer? Did you ask him if he was okay?

CHRISTIANSEN: I did and he was affirmative. He said yes. Two patrollers who were just making a ski by and one of them came up to us and said, do you guys -- do you need any help? And Mr. Ramon, Mr. Sanderson spoke to each other. I was still kneeling on the snow getting their skis ready. And, um whatever they said they turned to the patrol and said no, we don't need help.


NAVARRO: Can I tell you something? So, last week we were talking about Gwyneth Paltrow on "The View" because she was on a podcast and basically all she eats is bone broth and vegetables. She was --

CAMEROTA: She's doing a cleanse.

BERMAN: No, no.

NAVARRO: Okay. No, no. No, no, no. This is her daily routine.

BERMNA: Yeah, you got to reboil (ph) to Gwyneth. We all know a lot like Gwyneth Paltrow.


NAVARRO: So, I'm having a very hard time believing that somebody who only eats bone broth and vegetables can knock out -- I got -- I mean, if I have skied into the guy that would be more believable.

JENNINGS: But it's like, though -- she doesn't, I mean, it's like momentum though. Like if you drop a penny off the Empire State Building, it would still (inaudible).

NAVARRO: You realize they were on the bunny hill, right? They were not on the moguls.

JENNINGS: I'm just saying --

NAVARRO: So, the level of --

JENNINGS: Physics.

NAVARRO: Have you ever been on a bunny hill?

JENNINGS: No. I would -- I just said this last week. I don't understand any of these rich people. They're out there on these skiing around.

NAVARRO: Poor people ski too.

JENNINGS: These are poor people?


CAMEROTA: This is the beauty of Scott and why he's, our correspondent. Not only does he not know much about Gwyneth Paltrow except that he does know she creates products for lady parts, as he says.


CAMEROTA: He also has never skied.

JENNINGS: Yes. It makes me perfectly adaptable.

CAMEROTA: So, he's the perfect --

NAVARRO: So, the bunny hill is where little kids go and learn how to ski. They ski without poles. They get on this thing called the magic carpet. I've been on it a lot, too, because I've been skiing for about 25 years and I've never gotten past the bunny hill. I'm having a very hard time believing that Gwyneth Paltrow could-- the gravity is all wrong on me.

JENNINGS: I agree.

GRANDERSON: I just think this is all just residue from when "Shakespeare in Love" won best picture over "Saving Private Ryan." That's what really is up.

CAMEROTA: That's what's happening now.

GRANDERSON: That's what's really happening here. He's trying to get revenge --

CAMEROTA: He's angry about that.

GRANDERSON: Yeah, exactly. And I am to still to be quite honest with you.

JENNINGS: This is a great country by the way. We have spent seven years litigating this, people that are enormously smart and talented have spent and wasted all their time on this. We have people sitting in the courtroom --

CAMEROTA: That's not exactly true. He just came forward with the lawsuit more recently.


NAVARRO: This happened --


NAVARRO: This happened seven years ago.

BERMAN: 2016.

JENNINGS: Yes, 2016

NAVARRO: My god, she weighed even less back then.

JENNINGS: And I'm just saying, these cases that are seven years old.

CAMEROTA: That does make this a great country. John, clearly you have some important thoughts.

BERMAN: Well, I, actually, I've enjoyed this so much more just listening to Scott and Ana. Ana was looking at Scott like where am I? It's never like this on "The View." Like who is this guy? And why is he saying this.

JENNINGS: Oh, yes. If I went on "The View," it would be like an alien, right?

BERMAN: Look, I think this case is actually -- this case, which is televised, actually, really relatable in the sense that it's just two people arguing over what happened and it's -- you don't watch and it's not like all the highfalutin legal language and most of the trials you've seen on TV. This is like, did the guy run into her? Or did she run into the guy.

JENNINGS: If you had to put to put 20 bucks on it right now, who's going to win?

NAVARRRO: I don't put 20 bucks on anything even if that would mean anything.


CAMEROTA: -- you're not on Gwyneth's side because you're angry about "Shakespeare in Love."


CAMEROTA: So, you're on Terry Sanderson side.

GRANDERSON: Yes. And he has good hair too.

NAVARRO: I got to tell. I'm transfixed by the guy's lawyer who is like the female version of "My Cousin Vinny."


CAMEROTA: We need to play that -- okay. We need to play that for a second. So here is Terry Sanderson's lawyer who seems to be, I would say excited about getting to cross examine Gwyneth Paltrow.


KRISTIN VANORMAN, TERRY SANDERSON'S LAWYER: You were wearing goggles and helmet?


VANORMAN: You kind of looked like everybody else on the slope.

PALTROW: That's always my intention.

VANORMAN: Okay. Probably had a better ski outfit, though, I bet.

PALTROW: I still have the same one.

VANORMAN: May I ask how tall you are?

PALTROW: I'm just under 5'10.

VANORMAN: Okay. I am so jealous.

PALTROW: I think I'm shrinking though. VANORMAN: You and me both. I have to wear four-inch heels just to make it to 5'5.


PALTROW: They're very nice.

VANORMAN: Thank you. And you're not trained in accident reconstruction.





CAMEROTA: What's happening here?

GRANDERSON: It's Oscar performance, that's what's happening.


NAVARRO: This is the remake of "My Cousin Vinny." This is it. It is starring Gwyneth Paltrow and this woman.

JENNINS: She -- this lady is going to get like a special code for discounted goop products.

CAMEROTA: That's what's happening. Thank you.

JENNINGS: This is X-deal (ph).

CAMEROTA: Thank you for bringing it home, Scott. That's why you always know you have the piercing insight into these segments. Thank you very much for being here. All right, we'll be right back.



CAMEROTA: Another school shooting this time in Nashville, Tennessee.