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What Doctors Want You To Know About What They See In The E.R.; Sen. John Fetterman (D-PA) To Return To Senate After Depression Treatment; FDA Approves First Over-The-Counter Version Of Opioid Overdose Antidote Narcan; FDA Approves OTC Narcan Amid Opioid Epidemic; Tech Leaders Call For Pause On Artificial Intelligence Race. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 29, 2023 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JORDAN KLEPPER, GUEST HOSTING, THE DAILY SHOW, WEEK OF APRIL 17: That's creating a new denomination of the (INAUDIBLE), the seventh.
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: (INAUDIBLE), let's not go there today. Okay, everyone, just we're very clear about this, but, I mean, what will we tell our kids? Like you can't talk about rainbows? Like that's all gone, everything is gone?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's the adults that have the problem, by the way, not the kids.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: And, listen, it's actually pretty catchy song.
All right, Jordan Klepper, thank you so much. We'll watch your show when you are hosting. Thanks for joining us here at the table tonight. Thank you all for joining all of us tonight.
CNN TONIGHT with Alisyn Camerota is next. We're going to leave you though with Dolly and Miley.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.
You've seen the video of the brave police officers rushing into a school to save children. Tonight, we'll talk to an E.R. doctor who was standing by ready to treat the victims, but none of the ambulances he expected ever arrived. Some of our politicians today saying there's nothing we can do about gun violence. Doctors disagree.
Plus, the overdose drug Narcan will soon be on the shelves of grocery stores, gas stations, even vending machines. Do they have it at your child's school? Should parents keep it at home? We'll explain what you need to know.
And tonight, we bring you our next Pulse of the People, this one on how technology, like artificial intelligence is changing all of our lives. I sit down with a group of Gen Xers, millennials and Gen Zs to find out what level of glee or panic this causes now. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Technology is moving too fast for me personally, I can say. I don't have Alexa. She's not allowed in my home. I don't talk to her. I don't have Siri activated. I'm a little maybe paranoid. That being said, me being scared of it isn't going stop anything from happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Okay. Now, I want to begin, though with the Nashville school shooting.
Let me introduce my panel. We have with us tonight, former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin, Data Reporter Harry Enten, the Los Angeles Times' L.Z. Granderson and award-winning journalist and Founder of Mo News Mosheh Oinounou. Also, joining us, we have Dr. Jay Wellons, Chief of Pediatric Neurological Surgery at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville.
Dr. Wellons, I want to start with you. Can you just tell us what you did in the E.R. on Monday morning, when you heard that there was a school shooting, how you prepared for the victims who might be coming to your E.R.?
DR. JAY WELLONS, CHIEF, DIVISION OF PEDEIATRIC, NEUROLOGICAL SURGERY, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, Alisyn, there was a whole host of people down in the emergency room. The text went out. You know, I looked down. I had about six or seven different texts come in, saying that there was a mass casualty event. We got a phone call from the chief of staff, saying, Jay, this isn't a drill. You need to get downstairs.
And, basically, you know, we like many hospitals, you know, we do simulations for this kind of work. You know, trauma is a big deal in our world of pediatric healthcare. And it was you know, 35, 40 people all in kind of in orderly positions, you know, waiting for the ambulances to arrive.
And you know, everybody kind of has their position. There's anesthesia there. The head of the trauma services is there running the situation. The head of the E.R. is there, the ear, nose and throat doctors, neurosurgery were there, there's just a whole bunch of people there ready to kind of lean in and do what it is that you know that we want to do, you know, which is to help these kids and save these kids lives.
CAMEROTA: And then you waited, and you waited and then what happened?
WELLONS: Yes. So, we waited and we waited, just like you said, and then, you know, then the word went out that there weren't any ambulances that arrive and it was because everybody had died at the scene.
And, you know, I will tell you, you know, Alisyn and the rest of the crew up there, is that you know that kind of -- that silence and that sadness is just pervasive. You know, everybody just kind of slowly dispersed. And, again, you know when you watch the videos of those police officers in Nashville, you know, leaning in to do their job, I mean, I watched that and it makes me so proud to, you know, to see them do what it is, they were trained to do. And for us not to have that ability, it was just absolutely disheartening.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I can imagine, and I can imagine what you're describing that silence, as everybody disperses with the reality of what's just happened.
It's so interesting, Doctor, because nine months ago, you wrote a piece for TIME, titled if our politicians could see what we could see. Finish that sentence for us, if our politicians could see what you as an E.R. doctor could see, what would they do or what would they see?
WELLONS: Well, you know, they would sit down at a table and they would sit on all sides of the political fence and say, we all agree on one thing, and that is that our children should not be shot and killed at school. If they can agree with that one statement, and I can't imagine there's not a single person in the government or outside of the government within this country who would disagree with that. And then just hash it out. This is a republic. I believe in the republic.
You know, the people that were part of that article, that essay, Alisyn, it was the American Society of Pediatric Neurosurgery. You know, Uvalde just happened. You know, we're just all felt so helpless in our world of pediatric neurosurgery about what to do.
And, you know, it was like, what do we do? Well, somebody -- does he anybody know a senator? Does anybody -- can anybody write something? Can somebody know, you know, somebody in the media to contact, and that's really how that that paper came out. And it really was borne out of this sense of frustration.
And, you know, one of my closest friends is the chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Connecticut Children's Hospital. And he was there in Newtown when the kids, nobody came, and he describes standing in the gowns ready for people to come, and that was years ago.
And I never ever -- when I wrote those words down after I talked to him and put it down in the essay, I never in a million years thought that I'd be getting that page, you know, saying that this is not a drill, you know, go down, this is a mass casualty event. It's a school shooting. And then I never even dreamed that we wouldn't even have a chance to act. It was just a remarkable situation.
CAMEROTA: Well, Dr. Jay Wellons, thank you for all you do and thank you for describing it in those terms for us and for our viewers. It's really powerful. Thanks for your time tonight.
WELLONS: Yes, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me on and thanks for elevating this, because it's just so excruciatingly important. So, thank you all for talking about it. CAMEROTA: Agreed. I want to bring in my panel now. Mo, let I start with you, that's haunting. It's haunting to think about them all standing there waiting to do their jobs. They don't want this assignment, but they were ready to do the assignment and then nobody ever comes.
MOSHEH OINOUNOU, FOUNDER, MO NEWS: And was also haunting, three of the kids who died born after Sandy Hook, right? Like never again, yet it happened.
You know, it occurred to me as I was watching that conversation, that, literally, on 9/11, 3,000 Americans died. Afterwards, we invaded two countries, spent $2 trillion over 20 years because 3,000 Americans died.
45,000 Americans die every year of gun violence. Now, that includes -- you know, that includes shootings, that includes accidents, that include suicides, but let's add it up, right? And to think that we can't come up with a solution for this, this is not an external enemy, this is an internal enemy.
L.Z. GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: No. We can. There is a solution.
CAMEROTA: What is it?
GRANDERSON: It's coming in November 2024, vote their ass out. The people who are saying that they can't do anything, fine, thank you for your service. Get someone in who can. Americans have a choice. We really do. You don't have to go with Republicans who are going to support the NRA. You can go in the Republican primarily and pick someone who is going to be for universal background check, who's going to want to do something so that our kids don't get shot. You don't have to pick between Republican and Democrat.
I'm not saying that you need to switch over and be a liberal for five seconds to stop school shootings. No. There is a primary. Do your damn jobs, study the candidates and find someone that you can support, who wants to do something to stop this.
CAMEROTA: Well, the issue -- one of the issues, L.Z., and you know this so well, is that they have different takes on what would stop it. And we saw that highlighted, so in such technicolor today. In the halls of Congress, there were two congressmen, Democrat Congressman Bowman of New York and Republican Congressman Massie of Kentucky, and they -- here they are having it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN (D-NY): They have control of the house. The American people need to know that they don't have the courage to do anything to save the lives of children. More guns lead to more death. Look at the data. You're not looking at any data. You're carrying (INAUDIBLE) for the gun lobby. Listen to what I'm saying.
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Yes. Calm down. BOWMAN: That's it. Calm down? Children are dying, nine-year-old children. Now, the solution is not arming teachers.
MASSIE: That's worked in every school.
BOWMAN: I was a teacher. I was school counselor. I was a middle school principal. I was in cafeterias protecting kids every day of my career.
MASSIE: There's never been a shooting, never been a shooting. Its time -- look we've got guns here to protect us and he doesn't the kids should have somebody to protect them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Alyssa, you've worked in D.C. obviously. This is madness.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Is madness. I think that there's actually quite a big disconnect from the American public sentiments and elected officials in Washington as specifically on the Republican side. I'm a Republican. I fundamentally believe in the Second Amendment and responsible legal gun ownership.
Over 92 percent of Americans support background checks. For example, red flag laws pull in the 90 percent. This notion I reject wholeheartedly that there isn't more that elected officials can do to keep children from being massacred.
And I was -- I mean, I'm heartened by the fact that Thom Tillis, Chris Murphy were able to come together and do -- you know, take some steps on gun reform earlier this year, but it clearly isn't going far enough. And I think what happens, unfortunately, is too often the right retreats into the partisan corner of we've got to just address mental health and harden our schools and then the left says it's only about the guns.
You give Joe Biden credit. He has addressed the mental health aspect. It's both. It requires a gun to commit the crime but it requires somebody who is in a mental state that they're willing to mow down children. You have to be able to address both. You should get the hell out of Congress if you're not willing to act on it. And people saying we're not doing anything, well, then let someone else do it.
CAMEROTA: Well, you both have said that. And here's someone. Here is a congressman who says there is just no way we're ever going to fix this. So, this is Congressman Tim Burchett on gun legislation. He is from Nashville, I believe. So, listen to him today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Three precious little kids lost their lives, and I believe three adults and the shooter, of course, lost their life, too. So, it's a horrible, horrible situation. And we're not going to fix it. Criminals are going to be criminals, and my daddy fought the Second World War, fought in the Pacific, fought the Japanese, and he told me, he said, buddy, he said, if somebody wants to take you out and doesn't mind losing their life, there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about it.
If you think Washington is going to fix this problem, like you're wrong, they're not going to fix this problem. They are the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: So, Harry, is his option to surrender?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I guess it is. And, you know, my father was drafted in the army in 1945. I don't think he would have quite shared the same sentiment as that gentleman's father, who served in World War II.
CAMEROTA: But I think he might be taking the wrong message from his father. His father, who served in the Pacific, he thinks we should have surrendered to the Japanese? I doubt his father said that.
ENTEN: I doubt his father said that, you know? But at the end of the day, I think that if nothing else, we -- I do think there's some agreement here that this ultimately is in the hands of the voters. The voters are the ones who put these people into Congress. The voters are the ones who vote on background check measures, whether they be in Nevada or in Maine, swing states where basically background checks really kind of came in at about the 50 percent market, they're slightly passing or slightly failing.
At the end of the day, if voters want to change something, this country, they're the ones who are going to do it because they're the ones who, A, control the ballot measures, and, B, they're the ones who control the people who serve them in Congress and potentially change the laws.
GRIFFIN: But I do --
GRANDERSON: I want --
GRIFFIN: Go ahead.
GRANDERSON: I encourage people to go back. We just went through this. I'm a Gen Xer. Tobacco put us through this already. We've done this. They knew, what, in 1950s, there was some sort of loose link between cigarettes and cancer. They went and hired a P.R. firm. In the 1960s, when a certain general came out and said, hey, there seems to be a connection between tobacco and cancer, they went on hire lobbyists. They continue to push it back and push it back, knowing full well there was connection because anyone hurt their bottom line.
We've already done this as a country. So, why are we doing this again when it comes to guns when we did it with cigarettes?
ENTEN: And the thing I'll just add here is the problem is getting worse, right? We've had 16 school shootings this year. That's more than any of the last five years, except for, in fact, 2022, and it was 20 at this point. And the number of mass shootings is also well up. We're doubled.
CAMEROTA: We're at 130 right now for the year. And so the idea -- their plan of we can't do anything, it's not working, their plan of doing nothing.
GRIFFIN: Well, the problem, I would say, is I think there is an appetite in the Senate. As I noted, obviously, the gun reform that went through and even Chris Murphy on CNN the other day said, if you're not going to be able to do, you know, an assault -- so-called assault weapons ban, he even said then let's put in requirements for more training and more background checks, have one. That could pass the Senate. But hyper partisan gerrymandering on both sides in the House has districts so red or so blue that there is no room for compromise on an issue to get something that could actually pass through the Congress.
OINOUNOU: The interesting this divide between gun owners and the Republican legislators who represent them. I was talking to gun owners today in our community, on Instagram, and I was like, what do you guys think, and in terms of background checks, training, wait times mental health checks.
I mean, each scenario that we look at in the recent weeks are different, right? With the six-year-old who grabbed the gun. Clearly, it wasn't secure in that home. We had the shooting at the high school in Denver. That was a handgun. So, an assault weapons ban ain't going to stop that. But what are you going to do there?
In this case, in Nashville, you had someone under the care of a doctor who purchased seven weapons. Well, clearly, they'll creatively get together on Capitol Hill or get together in Tennessee and figure out a solution as to why somebody in under care who's on suicide watch was able to buy seven weapons.
But, where is that divide? How is it that this is what Republicans on Capitol Hill purport to represent, and yet in talking to gun owners, self-described conservatives, they say, actually, I'd be fine with some of this stuff?
GRIFFIN: There is a disconnect, because I'm a Republican and a gun owner, and I fundamentally believe that we need more strenuous background checks and that there are actions that we can take. It's such a uniquely American problem. This doesn't happen at all.
GRANDERSON: It goes back to the primaries again. It really does. No one's -- I'm not suggesting that Republicans will switch over and vote Democrat. What I'm suggesting is use your primary more intelligently. Stop going for people who are going up to drag queens or saying CRTs around the corner, don't pay attention to all the other important issues. No. Use the primary to actually help solve this problem.
CAMEROTA: Well, such a great point, because Tennessee is definitely cracking down on drag queens.
GRANDERSON: Yes, they are.
CAMEROTA: I mean, it is true. This is a real animation. That's right. That is the legislation. We got to go. Thank you very much, everyone. I really appreciate that.
Stick around because when we come back, John Fetterman, Senator Fetterman, is returning to the Senate after being hospitalized at Walter Reed for depression since February. He was there longer than the average stay. Why and what will it take for him to get back into his job on Capitol Hill, all of that.
CAMEROTA: Democratic Senator John Fetterman is on his way back to the Senate. A source tells CNN that Fetterman will return to his office the week of April 17th. That's two months after he checked himself into Walter Reed to receive treatment for clinical depression. Sources say he's doing well with his treatment. So, what will it mean to have the senator back at work?
We're back with our panel now. So, Alyssa, he was in the hospital longer than average. So, the average -- according to the Philadelphia Inquirer that's done an in depth article on this, the average stay for depression is six to seven days. He was there 40 days. And what they say is that there were a couple of reasons. Number one, he'd had a stroke, so they were trying to make sure that his medicines weren't interfering with his treatment for the stroke. And so, also after having a stroke, you're more prone to depression. There are chemical changes in your brain as well as the depression that comes from having lost some of your -- you know, he had auditory processing issues, so some of your capabilities.
GRIFFIN: Yes. And I had family member who had a very similar experience, and it does generally get better with time. It's something that can kind of self-heal in the brain. I think that it's going to be incumbent upon the senator when he's back and when he's healed to just -- to talk to his voters about where he's at, how he's been able to -- how he is doing the job when he's in the hospital, what his test staff have to do.
Listen, mental health is a real issue in this country. I actually think it's powerful and important that he's highlighting that this is something he was suffering from. But he does -- there's a there's a burden of just explaining how the job is still getting done while he's out of the office.
CAMEROTA: One of the things that we've learned is that his staff has been making daily visits to him in the hospital to update him on goings on the Hill, and he has co-sponsored legislation from his hospital bed. So, I guess it's working still.
ENTEN: It's working. And, you know, I should point out that, you know, the voters in Pennsylvania by late perhaps didn't know about the depression issue. They certainly knew about the stroke, and he won easily by five points despite the fact that there were many Republicans who attacked him over it.
Look, I think you know, whenever I hear about health problems such as this, I always think that the voters are more forgiving than some in the press are. The fact is the voters have friends and family who have suffered depression. They have had friends and family who have suffered strokes.
So, my guess is, you know, based upon looking at the polling data that John Fetterman's political future, as long as he's able to go back and do his job, is going to be just fine, but obviously, he may have some catching up to do in terms of the Senate of duties.
CAMEROTA: Is it fair to ask if he'll be able to work at full capacity?
GRANDERSON: Yes, it is fair to ask. But it's also fair to be able to handle the response, right? And I don't just mean in terms what the answer is but how he answers it. Because part of the discomfort people have is because he has had a stroke in his speech is a little bit different. And we in this nation, we just have a problem with looking at old people. We have problem dealing with people who may have physical challenges, and we get uncomfortable. And we would much rather vote that person out and not deal with them, then actually be uncomfortable as we were talking about yesterday.
So, it's not just about the answers but how he's answering it and how people receive and thinking he's going to be able to do the job based on how it sounds and looks.
OINOUNOU: And there were questions during the campaign as to the lack of transparency that you're getting from the Fetterman camp for a while. And so I think that one of the lessons is be transparent, be a spokesperson on these issues. And. by the way, he's not the first senator to have a stroke and serve. Mark Kirk from my home state of Illinois, you know, had a stroke and served for four years now.
Now, by the way, that did come up in his election in 2016 against Tammy Duckworth. She made it an issue at times. He was voted out for a variety of reasons. But -- and then before that, you had Tim Johnson. I mean, I remember Senator Kennedy being wheeled out onto -- you know, this is not the first time, also given the age of the Senate, that some have medical issues.
CAMEROTA: But do we think it's in his nature to be transparent?
OINOUNOU: I think it's probably up to his staff at this point.
GRIFFIN: That's the open question. That's what I'm curious to see. I interviewed him on during the campaign, and it was shortly after he had a fairly rocky debate. And even a few -- it was probably a week later, I interviewed him with another network. And you saw that there was a significant improvement in that short amount of time.
So, I do think seeing now you know, he's been down. He's been out of the public eye, for him to give some sort of address remarks, I think, would be important so people could see, yes, he's progressing, yes, he's still tuned in and able to serve. Again, this is a six year term. So, he's not up for election. This could be in the bat, you know, the rearview mirror by the time he's running.
CAMEROTA: Yes, great point, thank you all.
A big step forward in the fight against America's opioid epidemic, the FDA approving the first over the counter version of Narcan, which is used to reverse overdoses. Will it bring down the near record level of overdose deaths? That's next.
CAMEROTA: The FDA taking a big step towards addressing America's opioid crisis, the FDA approving over the counter sales of Narcan, the opioid antidote. It's sold in the form of a nasal spray and blocks the effects of opioids on the brain and restores breathing. This decision by the FDA could save thousands of lives.
Data from the CDC shows that in 2021 alone, more than 70,000 people died from fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. The rise in deaths comes at the same time that authorities have seen a surge in the amount of fentanyl seized at the border with Mexico.
CNN's David Culver took a look at how the drug even gets to the border and found that it starts in China. Despite the country banning the production and sale of all forms of fentanyl following pressure from the U.S. the ingredients to make the drug are still coming. And where they're going? Well, here's some of David Culver's report.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): DEA officials tell us the majority of precursors ship directly to Mexico, where cartels cook up fentanyl in secret labs. We wanted to see for ourselves.
Traveling into the state of Sinaloa, cartel country as some see it, we got exclusive access with the Mexican army as they hunt for drug labs.
They took us to their latest fentanyl lab bust, this unassuming home.
That white building right there, that's the fentanyl lab.
The army says they ceased 270,000 pills here, all containing fentanyl. Soldiers keep watch 24/7, preserving the scenes for prosecutors and preventing cartel members from restarting production here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: My panel is back with me now. most so, having Narcan available, I mean, they're talking about having it at gas stations, having it in vending machines, I mean, making it readily available. And there's talk even of parents of teenagers having it, keeping it in the home in case there's a party, you know, just having it be. I don't know what this says. If this is going to help stop everyone from dying or we've just accepted the fact that fentanyl and opioids are everywhere.
MOSHEH OINOUNOU, FOUNDER, MO NEWS: It's like a defibrillator, right? You need to have them everywhere. And the problem is that with all those drugs coming across the border laced with fentanyl, the kids when they have a party and there's drugs, there's a chance that there could be fentanyl in there. I mean, what's remarkable about the Mexican cartels is they're literally monitoring fentanyl deaths in America being like, oh, guys, you cooked it a little too hot this time.
I mean, that is happening. And they're like, all right, dude, you know, because they're literally working in a lab, creating this stuff to try to make it as addictive as possible without killing people.
LZ GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: And I doubt they are scientists, right? Like they are, you know what I mean.
OINOUNOU: We shouldn't handle our pharmaceutical manufacturing to (inaudible).
GRANDERSON: I don't -- I don't think they went to the schools and, you know, making sure everything is accurate. They're probably like cooking it up the way that I cook in the kitchen a little bit of this, a little bit that, blah, blah, blah. Listen, what does it say? We have a problem, but we just got done ripping the government because it wasn't doing anything about guns. So, I'm not going to rip the government finally making the move to get this more assessable to people. I would rather us try to treat this like COVID and make it all hands-on deck. Then say, oh, my gosh, we're so drug addict, maybe we shouldn't do this. No, let's save people's lives first and then deal with the moral aspect later.
CAMEROTA: I find this comparison very interesting because, Alyssa, Republicans, in particular are very engaged and very passionate about trying to stop fentanyl from killing teenagers and they've held, I think, effective hearings and certainly gotten the country's attention about how many teenagers died from fentanyl overdoses. We've heard the heartbreaking stories. More kids and teenagers die from gun violence. And yet, Republicans say, well, there's nothing we can do about that. That's interesting.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's, I mean, to LZ's point, that you just you cannot just throw your hands up and say you're not going (inaudible). This is actually -- I think this is a huge move by the FDA. This could save countless thousands of lives. Police officers, first responders have had Narcan on them for years. If you take -- if you take something laced with fentanyl, it can kill you within 10 minutes.
So, this has the possibility to reverse those effects. And often times it's people who think they're taking something like a Xanax or a Percocet. Maybe, you know, trying to help them sleep or they're trying to just have some fun and it's laced with it and it can end up killing people. This is a move in the right direction. I don't think we should become -- we should stop trying to diagnose the true problem which is the massive flood of drugs over our southern border, but this will save lives in the --
CAMEROTA: But am I wrong to see it through this political lens?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I don't think you're wrong. I mean, but if you look at the polling, there's a big difference between how people view guns and how people view the opioid crisis, right?
CAMEROTA: Though one is more deadly.
ENTEN: One maybe more deadly, but more Republicans say that the number one public health crisis is opioids. It is drug overdoses. They don't say the same thing about guns. You know, we --
CAMEROTA: But more kids are killed -- it's the number one killer of kids, guns.
ENTEN: I understand what the stats say. I understand that, but that doesn't necessarily mean how the public feels. And at the end of the day, the politicians are going to follow where the voters go. And this, I think, is the giant disconnect that's going on. Democrats are there on both of those issues, but Republicans aren't, and I think the response that you're seeing on those two issues sort of illustrate that polling --
GRANDERSON: Opioids are hitting their children more is the difference, right?
ENTEN: Well --
GRANDERSON: They're having more close encounters with the issue than perhaps some other --
ENTEN: I think that's a great way to put it, and we'll also note, as you know, a few weeks ago, I went into a spreadsheet and I was like, okay, is there any place as you know of Republican places more likely to have drug overdoses than Democratic places. No.
CAMEROTA: No, it's everywhere.
ENTEN: It's everywhere.
ENTEN: It's everywhere. It's hitting everyone.
CAMEROTA: What were you going to say?
GRIFFIN: Well, and I do think if you strip away that, you know, I think most people if they're taking their partisan hats off, see that these are both huge issues that need to be addressed, but at the end of the day, well, the crisis at the border is a legitimate crisis, humanitarian and national security that has to be dealt with. It is also a fundraising boon. It is something that turns voters out for my party.
So, keep that as an issue, that it's always going to be front and center in Republican politics. On the flip side, I think that it's a much harder case to make with the base on the gun issue, and that's why I really applaud people like Senator Thom Tillis, who are coming out and getting in front of it and saying you don't want this happening in your community. You want to be able to say you at least try to do something and you can respect legal gun ownership while still doing something.
We've got to change the narrative within the GOP. I think the country is there. I don't think elected officials are.
CAMEROTA: Mosheh, did you have a point?
OINOUNOU: Yeah. Well, I think that we're looking at comprehensive solutions, right? Deal with the border. In the meantime, make Narcan available. Gun violence like school security, mental health gun laws. Let's look at it comprehensively. To Harry's point about Democrats, I think we're hoping this would argue the Democrats aren't there on the border and on fentanyl. So, ultimately, like both parties need to say if we're all going to take off our partisan hats, let's take off our partisan hats and look at everything comprehensively.
You know, interestingly, the Mexican president this week said we're going to deal with the fentanyl issue. To what extent he can is unclear. There was the trial recently of the head of the Mexican FBI that we put on trial here that was in the pocket of the cartels. So, there are issues across the border. I mean, that's a much more complicated international issue, but certainly something we need to deal with.
GRANDERSON: And there's a cultural aspect to it as well, right? Like there's the border, there's the Narcan, and then there's the reason why people are taking drugs. And I think the cultural aspect of this conversation doesn't get enough oxygen --
CAMEROTA: Show the demand. I mean, you have to also --
GRANDERSON: Right. Exactly.
CAMEROTA: Yeah. Thank you all very much for that. So, some of the biggest names in tech are issuing a dire warning about artificial intelligence and between tools like ChatGPT and social media algorithms, it's all happening very fast. We're going to get a pulse of the people across the generational spectrum. How do Gen Z's feel about it? How about Gen X's? How about millennials? All that's next.
CAMEROTA: All right, my panel is standing by to talk about this next story. Some of the biggest names in the tech industry, including Elon Musk and Steve Wozniak are calling for a six month pause in the development of artificial intelligence systems, citing what they call and I quote, "profound risks to society and humanity."
Dozens of industry leaders signing a letter saying that protocols must be implemented to halt an out-of-control A.I. development race. It all sounds worrisome. Our latest pulse of the people panel focuses on the galloping advances in technology and the impact what it's having on all of us, members of Gen X, Gen Z and millennials are all expressing their concerns.
CAMEROTA: How many of you feel that culture is shifting given technology and everything else, too fast. Show of hands. Basically, all of you.
LEE PRICE, MILLENNIAL: I would definitely say technology is taking over our lives, and in some ways, it's not for the best. I think it's definitely changed the way that we interact with other people. People are more worried about 1.3 thousand friends on Instagram or Twitter, rather than actually maintaining close personal relationships with the people that are important to them.
DANNY NAVARRO, MILLENNIAL: I will agree, you know, that we're not being careful with the technology that we are producing. I have not actually used ChatGPT, but all I've heard from friends is that oh, my goodness, their report.
UNKNOWN: Technology is moving too fast for me personally, I can say. I don't have Alexa. She's not allowed in my home. I don't talk to her. I don't have Siri activated. I'm a little, maybe paranoid. That being said, me being scared of it isn't going to stop anything from happening. And it's really insidious what it does to our attention spans.
And the way it commodifies our attention and our selfhood to then just make us better consumers to go buy things on the Instagram ads. I mean, it's complicated stuff.
NAVARRO: My wife and I, we run two social media accounts that focuses on travel because we want to encourage Latinos to travel the world. So, I'm trying to help fans, you know, travel to 2026 World Cup. And I need TikTok to not be banned for my work, for purely for the promotional purposes of my business. And so, there are benefits to the technology that we have. I'm trying to help fellow folks save money because I think that's at least the helpful thing to do in this world rather than create more angry tweets at everybody else.
ERIC BERNT, GEN X: As far as my take on my generation, on one hand, we accomplished so much. We created industries out of whole cloth, and I'm a technology aficionado. But I'm also horrified by what it has done to us, and I see the alienation. I have a daughter who's 18 and the way she and her friends communicate and what they see and what they're influenced by is horrific.
When I hear Steve Jobs, who said that he didn't allow the devices he created in his own house for his children, I thought, well, that's really telling and I wish somebody had given us that warning label. Once again, this week, ChatGPT 3, and now 4, they're absolutely amazing, but there's also the very inventors of the technology you're saying we can't be responsible for what's going to be done with it.
NAVARRO: It would be helpful if the people in power that are, you know, they're not reflective of the generations that are using this technology, we would have different leadership, right? So, it would be helpful of more of us were in charge to help implement new policies that can help continue this advancement in technology while at the same time not create those unintended consequences.
CAMEROTA: How many people like Danny's idea or agree with Danny's idea that if our legislative leaders were of a younger generation, we'd be in better hands with social media and technology?
BERNT: I think it's a great idea. And if -- when I first saw -- it was the first hearings on Capitol Hill when Zuckerberg was being interviewed and watching the senators at that time who had no understanding of Facebook at all, and they didn't even know the questions to answer -- ask.
They didn't understand the answers that they were being given and it was an absolute embarrassment. Those in power right now have -- don't have a clue what's coming.
SARA STEWART, GEN X: One of the answers is you elect more people like Maxwell Frost, who is the representative from Florida who I believe is the youngest congressman now at 26, 27. I think we need people, more people in their 20s in Congress for sure.
UNKNOWN: I wake up every day in some measure of panic around the future and my future in particular. I am trying to temper that with gratitude for all the things that are going right in the world, like this very civil discourse that we can have tonight for example.
BERNT: People my age and older have to empower those of the younger generations who have invented it, who understand it, to take control of it or it will take control of us. And that scenario is just too horrific so I'm choosing to be optimistic if we can have this level of discourse going forward.
PRICE: We definitely have to be able to maintain that civil discourse so that we can have policy discussions. We have to debate. And we can make progress for the future in the right direction. And it's all just about talking and being able to reach that common ground in those compromises.
CAMEROTA: Okay. So, we all agree A.I. has gone wild. Basically, that's what I just got out of that. So, what might happen next? The panel is going to weigh in.
CAMEROTA: I hope you just saw "Pulse of the People." That's our segment where I spoke to Gen Xers, millennials and Gen Zers about the frenzy of developments in technology and how we feel about it, including Artificial Intelligence, ChatGPT and the effect they're all having on all of us. Let's bring back my panel. I'm back with Alyssa, Harry, LZ, and Mosheh.
LZ, I feel like when we talk about these futuristic things we alternately giggle because we think like its sci-fi stuff and it's never going to happen and feel petrified and are clenching at all times. And I don't know what the middle crown answer is here.
GRANDERSON: All I know is what the millennial was talking about, about like the Marjorie Taylor Greenes and, you know, Chuck Schumer's all thinking together and trying to decide what's best for us with technology. That scares the hell out of me. I'm just being real with you, like, you might be experts when they were (inaudible) you came to Congress to bring, but you're not expert in technology. And if the people who are in charge of technology is saying pump the brakes, then I think Congress should be putting on the emergency brake because they are not prepared to handle that conversation.
CAMEROTA: It's fair point they are saying pump the brakes, the people who know what they're doing with this.
OINOUNOU: The last real regulation we had on Capitol Hill in regards to tech happened in the '90s in the dial-up bureau, right. Like, they still haven't figured how to regulate for social media and its impact in the past decade, and now we're at Web 3.0 and A.I. and like, where is that going?
And ultimately, what's interesting is so the internet partially developed right out of universities and the Pentagon, ARPANET, right? That's the history of the internet.
GRANDERSON: And Al Gore.
OINOUNOU: And an Al Gore, you know, God bless him. At the same time, you know, had A.I. being developed by a bunch of tech CEOs with for profit goals, where does that go?
OINOUNOU: Do we trust that process and at the same time, interestingly, the headlines in the past few weeks among the job cuts in tech, the ethical A.I. offices within Microsoft, within Meta, within multiple companies that are developing A.I., among the job cuts, the people who are the ethicists.
CAMEROTA: Oh, no. GRIFFIN: Well, when I was at the Department of Defense, we released the Principles of Ethical Artificial Intelligence Use, and when we were looking at it in the defense room, we're talking about the weapons systems. We're talking about using A.I. in warfare. And if we're doing it, you know, our adversaries are also experimenting with it. So not to offer an even scarier notion here, but if there's fears about, you know, ChatGPT getting too smart, think of what that happens when you're incorporating into things like weapons systems, which is happening in real time with places like China.
ENTEN: I would just say, you know, I agree with all the scary. You know, I'm the type of guy, I mean, take a look at the phone that I still have right here, right?
OINOUNOU: With a keyboard.
ENTEN: With the keyboard.
CAMEROTA: I love the keyboard.
ENTEN: I hold on --
GRANDERSON: Is that a typewriter?
ENTEN: I actually used to collect them from thrift shops. I'm not kidding you. But either way, so I get all of that. And you know, I am worried, but I also I'm kind of excited, right? I kind of wonder where we're going to end up like the idea that I'm able to go on a ChatGPT and I'm able to, you know, ask at these questions and it comes up and obviously it's flawed in some ways, and I'll say things sometimes that are untrue --
CAMEROTA: But I mean, what's your best-case scenario? What do you want to use it for? You can't use the internet and your typewriter there for it.
ENTEN: Well, I would say, you know, one thing I might want to use it for is essentially, you know, rough drafts for certain things, right? I then go in and then I'm able to, you know, figure out, okay, this is not actually right. But it was sort of cut the -- cut how long it takes to do certain tests. That's what I'm saying. There's -- I'm hopeful there's always going to be some human component to whatever it is that we're talking about. If we're not, then hello, that can be very scary.
CAMEROTA: I mean, part of the problem is that it doesn't know the truth.
ENTEN: No, it doesn't.
CAMEROTA: It doesn't know the truth.
ENTEN: No, that's exactly right. CAMEROTA: So, it spits out a lot of sometimes just falsehoods and
nonsense and gibberish, and it also falls in love with you, accidentally.
GRIFFIN: That (inaudible) I'm still not over. So, when that fell in love with the report --
CAMEROTA: "The New York Times" report.
GRIFFIN: -- trying to break up his marriage.
GRIFFIN: And also talked about wanting to, you know --
CAMEROTA: Get out of the machine.
GRIFFIN: Do some cyberattacks and get out of the machine (inaudible).
OINOUNOU: (Inaudible) A.I. has ability to hallucinate for whatever that's worth. In the same time, I, by the way, speaking of our profession, journalism, I threw in there last week, I was testing out. Bard versus ChatGPT and I was like, write me a four paragraph latest story on the Gwyneth Paltrow trial. Essentially very well done, like -- and it came out in about five seconds. So, just FYI --
GRANDERSON: Explain to me, okay, so you can write a paper, but if you were to call a business and try to get like, cancel like a service and use the automated service, it --
GRIFFIN: Why can't that work?
GRANDERSON: That cannot work. So, explain to me --
OINOUNOU: The cable company will not be getting A.I.
CAMEROTA: The one place that we could use it all happily is not going to be getting it.
GRIFFIN: And just really quick to put a finer point on it. I mean, when the billionaires behind the invention of this or warning us, I do think we should heed it. These are -- they're going to jettison off the planet the second they can. The rest of us can't.
OINONOU: Really. Elon has a space program and he's warning about it.
CAMEROTA: Great point. Thank you all very much. Okay, so the battle between Disney and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is getting more heated. The new board handpicked by DeSantis says Disney is quietly stripping it of its power. We're going to explain next.