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CNN Tonight
Trump To Be Arraigned Tuesday After Historic Indictment; Some Trump Loyalists, GOP Lawmakers Attack Manhattan D.A. Alvin Bragg For Trump Indictment; At Least Three Dead, Dozens Injured In Arkansas, Tornadoes Tearing Through South And Midwest; Tornado Outbreak Batters Several Cities In South And Midwest U.S.; Jury Finds Gwyneth Paltrow Not Responsible For Ski Accident; California Police Union Executive Director Charmed With Attempting To Import Opioids. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 31, 2023 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[22:00:00]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Before we go tonight, Stormy Daniels is now speaking out about whether or not it was worth ever sharing her story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STORMY DANIELS, ADULT-FILM ACTRESS (voice over): I get in these moments where I get emotional and I'm like, I wish I had never done this, this was so stupid, what the F was I thinking, but I'd still do the same things because it was the right thing to do. If I can go far enough back to where I didn't go to the hotel room that night, I stand by that. I wouldn't have done it. But if I go back only so far as coming forward, I would do the same thing again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: She says she would do it again. Daniels has also said she is ready to face Trump in court, if it ever comes to that. Of course, we shall see.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight. We had a great evening. CNN TONIGHT with Alisyn Camerota starts right now.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.
Parts of New York City getting ready for the unprecedented arraignment of former President Donald Trump. Lots of places already under tight security, including Trump's own Trump Tower, the motorcade route and the Manhattan criminal court where we're told cameras will be allowed to capture the former presidents walk into the courtroom. So, what's the timeline here? When will a trial actually get underway? We'll find out.
And the woman at the center of the case says she's getting death threats. Stormy Daniels says she fears for her own safety. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELS: The first time, it was like gold digger, slut, whore, you know, liar, whatever. And this time it's like I'm going to murder you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Plus, we'll tell you what happened during jury deliberations in the Gwyneth Paltrow ski collision trial. Tonight, I'll talk to one of the jurors and find out what convinced her that Paltrow was not guilty.
And a new particularly dangerous tornado watch in effect across the south and the Midwest tonight, millions of people are under threat of severe storms.
And make sure you stick around for the end of the show. We've got our Friday night quiz -- news quiz for you. You're going to test your knowledge against our panel.
Okay. But let's start with how New York City is preparing for Donald Trump's indictment. Here with me tonight we have former Congressman Mondaire Jones, we also have CNN's top law enforcement expert John Miller, former Senate Candidate Joe Pinion and Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here on this Friday night.
Okay. John, I understand that there had already been something like 100 threats so far into the courthouse. How are those coming in? Are those online? What does that look like?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, there're a number of social media platforms, big ones, like Twitter, but then very specific ones to kind of the most virulent of the Trump followers that talk about, you know, what should be done here. And that's being tracked where in these discussions there were something about 85 of these threats, you know, up at the end of last week. We're way past 100 now and they've increased in kind of numbers and pace since the indictment.
CAMEROTA: How do they chase -- how do police chase those down?
MILLER: So, you've got a threat assessment unit. They look at the threat. They look at whatever information they can on the pollster. And, you know, they're very good at determining, although this is a bit of an art, not a science, which is, is it a credible threat? Does the person have the ability to carry out the threat? Is it a specific threat or a general threat? And then they've been them, these are threats against the D.A. These are threats against the courthouse. These are threats against a witness. And do that assessment and then send them out to the right agencies to say you need to be aware of this.
But the balance that they haven't found any number of these threats that they say these are specific, credible threats that we're worried about, but that's why they tracked them. CAMEROTA: Okay. And so tell us about how we have now learned that cameras will be able to see the former president in process for some of these things.
MILLER: So, there will be a couple of opportunities where you will -- if you're covering this, see Donald Trump, one is his arrival at one Hogan place, the district attorney's office, where he gets out of the car and goes in with a phalanx of people, and the other is, after he's arrested and processed, they will bring him through a warren of back hallways and elevators that are private. But there will be a time when he emerges into the hallway where that courtroom is located and there is a short walk from that door to the courtroom door, which will be the second time he's visible.
We are still, as a group of news organizations, including CNN, weighing in on the court and the office of court administration to allow cameras in the courtroom for the arraignment because the universe of that courtroom is about 80 seats, and this is going too far surpass that in terms of press interest, public interest, security people.
[22:05:16]
So, it would be a better way to make this a public proceeding.
CAMEROTA: Those are a lot of developments, I think, for today. So, Elie, the indictment is still under seal, as we know, but the judge has signed off on granting Alvin Bragg, the D.A., the ability to publicly disclose the indictment. So, when will we know what's in there?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, first of all, it will be interesting to see Donald Trump the person. I'm interested in the paper. Maybe this makes me a nerd, but I want to see the indictment. The order that came out today and allowed Alvin Bragg to acknowledge that this thing exists, to publicly acknowledge, yes, we have an indictment, yes, it's been filed, that's it, we will see it on Tuesday. I'm going to be looking for a couple of things.
First of all, there're two kinds of indictments in the world. There's the bare bones indictment, which just says the language of the statute. The defendant honor about such and such a date hereby did conspire combined confederate, blah, blah, blah, a bunch of legalese. You don't get that much out of that. Then there's what they call a speaking indictment, which is narrative, which has details. So, we don't know which one it's going to be. And then the other big thing I'm looking for is, are these charges constrained to the financing of the Stormy Daniels hush money payment or is there going to be a surprise in there? That's why I'm looking for.
Can we just take one second? John Miller all week, this guy is a scoop machine.
CAMEROTA: He is a scoop machine. We've also learned that he does --
MILLER: I'll pay you later. HONIG: You didn't ask me to say that.
CAMEROTA: We also have learned that he's a lot like Batman. He sleeps in his suit so he can just be ready for the action. Yes, I know it's amazing.
MILLER: It just looks like I slept in it.
CAMEROTA: That's not true. That's not true.
All right, Joe, your thoughts about what's going to happen next week.
JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, start off, I am not an attorney, but luckily enough, I was waiting in the wings when the senior legal analyst for CNN, this guy sat in that chair, that's the Harvard J.D. chair, another Harvard J.D. there, and he told us that the theory of the crime based on the information that we have at our disposal was either probably flimsy at best, dubious at worst, that this effort to try to kind of bootstrap his way to some type of felony was probably a bridge to nowhere. So, that's not my opinion. That's the opinion of a Harvard attorney who is paid by CNN.
I will say this --
CAMEROTA: Will you corroborate this?
PINION: Oh, yes.
MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Would you have used precisely those words (INAUDIBLE)?
HONIG: Well, I mean, that's not quite hard to describe it. But I am --
JONES: (INAUDIBLE) at best?
HONIG: No, no. But, I mean, there are -- let's be real here. There are legitimate legal problems with this with the charging theory here that will be challenged very quickly. The evidence is, look, never believe anyone who says anything is a slam dunk, but it's debatable.
CAMEROTA: How do you know what the evidence is?
HONIG: Well, based on what we know, based on knowing that Michael Cohen will be important. There could be a surprise. But, yes, like this is not going to be an easy case -- this is what we call a triable case. It could go either way.
CAMEROTA: Congressman?
JONES: I would love to explore with you some of the challenges on this because we do have Michael Cohen, who has served time for similar conduct, again, not the same conduct. I mean, it seems like the prosecutor -- the theory, you know, before even seeing the actual indictment, which is going to be unsealed on Tuesday, is that they committed these campaign finance violations, which are, in and of itself, crimes and then concealed them, which is a crime under New York State law. What's going to be difficult to prove about that?
HONIG: So, two things. First of all, with the business records, it's the falsification of the business records. It's not the hush money payments. There is plenty of evidence that the person who put together the structure of this deal is Michael Cohen, starting with the tape Michael Cohen made of his own client. By the way, kids, do not tape your own client. That is bizarre behavior. But in that tape, Donald Trump is just saying to Michael Cohen, how are we going to do this? And Michael Cohen says, me and Allen Weisselberg, we will handle it. So, that's going to be a problem.
The second part of this, and this is the legal problem, this will be the lead motion that we will see, and we heard Trump's attorneys today talking about motions, they're going to argue that New York State law cannot incorporate a federal election violation race for president. And the law is not good for the prosecution on that. So, I'm interested to see if they're going to walk into that and hope they fare well on the appeals courts or if they have some way around it.
CAMEROTA: Does that answer your question? It is not about campaign finance, it is about this about falsifying the business records, the internal business records.
JONES: Yes, of course. I mean -- but there's also substantial evidence that Donald Trump knew that the business records were going to be falsified. And so, I look forward to seeing the speaking indictment. It's difficult to believe that Donald Trump didn't know how these payments were going to be reported as legitimate business.
MILLER: There's a different position that goes right to this point, which is Elie's point is, you got Michael Cohen, your star witness, who, on that tape, sounds like he's running the whole thing and just, you know, telling, Donald, like we'll take care of it.
The other point of view would be that Donald Trump is the head of this enterprise that's involved in multiple illegal acts and that this is one of them and that they are briefing the boss, as you know, here's how we're taking care of this and he's not saying, wait a minute, what do you mean you're going to set up a fake company?
[22:10:08]
What do you mean you're going to -- he's saying, okay, great, take care of it.
JONES: And at that point, he had known that he certainly hadn't been making those payments and filing them as legitimate campaign expenses at that point.
PINION: Well, look, I just think to the point, we're not actually going to have most American people look at this and say you hire an attorney, pay them a king's ransom to take care of the dotting of the Ts and the crossing of the Is, then that attorney effectively record it. It doesn't sound like he's trying to keep a record. It sounds like he's trying to have blackmail information on his actual client for whenever he needs to use it. And when you look at the track record of Michael Cohen, if they can't get it kicked on summary judgment, the first thing anyone is probably going to ask is, were you lying then or were lying now? Did you mean what you said when you put those words down on paper and signed your name to it or were you just trying to wink, wink, nod, nod to the boss keeping the campaign coffers full on your behalf?
JONES: Except we're dealing with Donald Trump, right, a career criminal that even Republicans don't doubt the reality of it.
PINION: There is the phrase, a career criminal, because since day one, people have assumed, again, just a crime syndicate hanging out in the Oval Office.
So, look, again, I get the point. I just think at the end of the day it's the, we know he's guilty, doesn't fly in the court and it certainly is not flying in the court of public opinion.
JONES: Yes. Look, I don't I don't agree with attributing guilt to anyone without it being proven in court, but I do think that there is enough out there to give -- certainly the grand jury having indicted the former president of the United States had enough evidence enormously.
MILLER: I find it a very enormously complicated case because you start off with a defendant that says, look, basically, I was being blackmailed by two people, I had to pay them. We made them sign a nondisclosure agreement saying they'd never say anything. They took the money. They violated that. Now, you want to put me in jail. So, it's not an easy sell. It's going to be complicated.
CAMEROTA: Okay. Gentlemen, thank you very much. I was supposed to wrap you minutes ago but I was too mesmerized. I was too -- it was too compelling what you were saying. Thank you very much.
When we come back, the politics of the Trump indictment, what this means for the 2024 presidential race.
Plus, millions of people across the south and the Midwest tonight are dealing with severe storms, tornadoes, destroying everything in their path. We will go there live.
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CAMEROTA: Donald Trump's daughter and son-in-law weighing in on his indictment today. In an Instagram story, Ivanka Trump writes, quote, I love my father and I love my country. Today, I am pained for both. I appreciate the voices across the political spectrum expressing support and concern.
Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, also speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JARED KUSHNER, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: It's very troubling to me to see the leader of the opposition party be indicted. And I think that that shows obviously the fear that the Democrats have of Trump and the political strength that he has. And just as a family member, obviously, Ivanka and I love him very much. It's been hard to watch the opponents of him politically continue to break every norm over the last years to try to get him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Here with me, former Democratic Congressman Mondaire Jones, CNN Political Commentator S.E. Cupp, Republican Strategist Joe Pinion and former tennis pro and jack of all trades, Patrick McEnroe. Guys, thank you very much for being here.
How are the prosecutors breaking every norm to -- with this indictment?
JONES: I mean, I don't think it's norm-breaking to simply hold someone accountable who is no longer the president of the United States, so he's no longer sort of, you know, immunized from a case being brought against him. I mean, we, in fact, had a lot of notice that that this and so many other things that are even more significant would potentially happen if our justice system actually works, and so far, it is.
Look, I share the perspective that this is not the strongest case against him. I would much rather the Fulton County D.A. or Merrick Garland sometime ago have brought cases for significantly more serious crimes, but as someone who has had to comply with campaign finance law and is really proud of that compliance, I think we should take this very seriously. Those laws exist for a reason. You know, laws on books and recordkeeping exist for a reason.
So, I do resent that some people are trivializing the importance of the indictment, and, of course, we haven't even seen it yet.
CAMEROTA: S.E., I want to hear your thoughts, including what you think of what of Ivanka's statement.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't know that we would expect anything other than supportive statements from the kids. You know, I get that. But, let's be clear, Trump broke all the norms. That's what's happened. And we all in media, in election politics, in, you know, the law, we're all adapting and responding to all the norms that Trump broke. That's not our fault, and it's certainly not the fault of the, you know, New York D.A. who is responding to alleged crimes.
I love that he doesn't care apparently what the political ramifications may be. In fact, I think he levied these indictments in spite of politics. Because if you were really going after a political hit job, you wouldn't start with this when you start with something better, bigger.
So, I like that Alvin Bragg has decided, I don't care that people want to see the perp walk, not giving it to him, and I don't care that Republicans are going to be all outraged and offended and call this a political witch hunt.
You know what sounds political, when you call this indictment a political witch hunt when you haven't seen the charges. That what -- that's political. Now, you're just being a political hack.
CAMEROTA: Would you like to respond to that, Joe?
PINION: Look, I don't call it a witch hunt but I do think that, you know my study, buddy has left me, right, but there are plenty of individuals with law degrees who are not Republicans, who are not conservative-leaning, who believe that based on the information that we currently have, that the legal theory is challenging.
CUPP: Yes, true, but that's challenging, sure.
CAMERA: Yes, sure, but that's (INAUDIBLE) than it being political prosecution.
PINION: Well, I think, personally, if you're talking about the Department of Justice that has declined to file charges, if you're talking about the FEC, which has declined to pursue the bootstrapped version of what is going to proceed here, I think that it makes it very difficult for people not to look at this as some type of politically motivated theory.
[22:20:07]
And, in fact, the poll came out from Quinnipiac, 63 percent of all Americans believe that this is politically motivated.
So, again, I just think --
CUPP: But it was Trump's DOJ that thought this was a crime in the first place. That's why Michael Cohen went to jail.
PINION: Again, at the end of the day we should --
JONES: I wouldn't read too much into what the FEC does because they can't (INAUDIBLE).
PINION: Look, well, they can't count anything. But I just think that at the end of the day, we should let the facts lead where they may, we should actually be able to read the indictment, we should not actually be having people on either end of the spectrum saying, I know concretely what has happened here, but I just think that --
CUPP: For inciting violence, right?
PINION: Right. But I think it's also disingenuine to simply say that any time Republican says I seem to agree that this doesn't pass the sniff test, that they're labeled as crazy, and then when we have actual certified, bona fide legal experts echoing some of those same sentiments. CAMEROTA: Yes. But I think that that's different than what Elie was saying was that it may be a thin or flimsy case is different than it was a political prosecution, but hold that thought.
PATRICK MCENROE, FORMER PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: We're going to find out on Tuesday what's in the indictment, and then we're all going to be able to make I think a better assessment of where we're going with it.
Now, as far as the Jared and Ivanka concern, I'm actually surprised we haven't heard from them at all until now. You have the day were the big players within the White House and then all of a sudden they sort of went to Florida, like we're out, we're not in it.
The other thing I'll say is about Mr. Bragg, Alvin Bragg, who I was lucky enough to actually interview on my own podcast three years ago.
CAMEROTA: And what was that like?
MCENROE: Three year ago, before he was even in the position he's in now.
CAMEROTA: So what were your impressions?
MCENROE: My impression was that this guy is buttoned up. I mean, there's absolutely no way having interviewed him for 27 minutes, I checked how long it was in my podcast, that there's no way that this guy is going down this road unless he's got something. And more than what some people are speculating, particularly on the Republican side, he's got nothing. It's just, you know, paying off a porn star.
Something tells me he's got a little bit more. I don't -- he doesn't strike me as a guy that's messing around.
CUPP: Well, we ignore the fact that the grand jury has indicted Donald Trump. It's not just Alvin Bragg saying, yes, let's do this. A grand jury indicted him on apparently more than 30 counts.
JONES: And that Bragg famously declined to prosecute Donald Trump for another crime that Mark Pomerantz has written a book about now. So, clearly, he's not acting politically.
I will say in full disclosure, I've known Alvin for over a decade --
CUPP: The name dropping at this table.
JONES: Well, it's actually my response. You know, you get in trouble when you don't disclose this kind of stuff. The guy hired me for an internship back when I was in law school. You know, he donated $100 in my campaign. I hosted a fundraiser for him.
But separate and apart from that --
CAMEROTA: $100, wow.
JONES: Right, yes. You know, public service can give in the way that people can. Every little bit counts.
But, look, I know him to be someone who is a very serious person, who follows the facts and does not make political decisions and I think we're seeing that play out.
CUPP: And he's getting racist death threats. I just want to put that out there. He's getting racist death threats because people have decided, he's political hit job.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I have to go guys, but a lot of people are sadly getting death threats connected to all of this. All right, we'll talk more about this.
But we need to talk about our breaking news. Severe tornadoes are threatening millions of people right now across the south and the Midwest. Nearly two dozen people are hospitalized in Little Rock after a tornado rips through that city. We're live on the ground, next.
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[22:25:00]
CAMEROTA: Millions of people under threat of deadly tornadoes tonight. At least three people are dead with dozens hospitalized in Arkansas.
New video shows a tornado touching down in Wynne, Arkansas, causing significant damage and trapping people inside their homes. Wynne's mayor says the town has basically been cut in half by the damage.
CNN's Derek Van Dam joins us now live from Wynne, Arkansas. So, Derek, describe what you're seeing on the ground there.
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, unfortunately, Alisyn, we are in that damage path that cut the town of Wynne, Arkansas in half. It was devastating to come across the scene. Really, as we drove in, we saw ambulances, first responders, emergency vehicles, blue flashing lights, we had our phones lighting up with tornado warnings, we heard sirens. It was very fluid, very dynamic situation. And then we got onto the scene. And what we've seen has been significant, if not catastrophic destruction. This is just a drop in the bucket in what the town of Wynne, Arkansas, has experienced.
This is Wynne High School. You can see it directly behind me. But I think we'll get a better perspective with this aerial footage hopefully that we're showing on air now, because this tornado tore through this high school. Thank goodness that this took place after school was let out. You can see the football field has been literally ripped of its turf.
I'm going to take you down to the ground because we were able to go about a quarter mile to my left shoulder into a heavily damaged neighborhood, and some of the homes were literally wiped off of their foundations. One home was completely shifted off of its foundation. We talked to first responders. We talked to some of the search and rescue crew, and they say that it is still ongoing. As we speak. One woman was saved from the rubble from her home. She's safe in a shed with her dogs, but they have also put green Xs on each of the individual homes that they have been going meticulously through, one by one, to make sure that there are no people trapped inside. And so far, they have rescued a few people and we're hearing about the unfortunate fatalities coming out of Wynne, Arkansas, as well.
I just want to give you an idea of the damage. Look at what a tornado can do. This is some sort of metal structure. I mean, this weighs a good 20 to 30 pounds. You can imagine this getting lofted into the air and hitting into the side of the building. There were cars that have obviously been flipped as well from this destruction, a powerful and terrifying moment for the residents here in Wynne, Arkansas.
[22:25:05]
Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: Okay, Derek. Please be careful out there and bring us any updates as soon as you get them.
Let's go now to Chad Myers in the CNN Weather Center. So, Chad, I understand these storms are sweeping across the country. Where is the biggest threat right now?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. This is not over. I know it's dark and storms are supposed to die after dark. That will not be the case tonight. That storm that Derek is on right now was on the ground likely for almost 80 miles as it crossed from Arkansas all the way to the East there across and south of Memphis, Tennessee.
This is the storm itself, all the way from Chicago, all the way down to Texas. Still in this red zone, tornado watch boxes in effect. And you're thinking, come on, this has to be over. It's dark. it's getting cooler. No, because not much of the atmosphere was used up yet. Used up meaning, yeah, it's rained a lot appeared. This is done. This will rain for much of the night, but the chance of severe weather is over, really.
But in this zone through here in Illinois, Indiana, the zone here is not used up. That moisture, that humidity, that heat of the day is still there. And so, these storms will rotate for much of the night. A tornado emergency on the storm right here, which means we know a tornado is on the ground. We can tell by the radar. We can look at the debris, the leaves and the sticks and the insulation that might be in the air. We can tell that that storm right now is still on the ground.
And then south of Memphis, one storm cell moved here from about Tunica just to the south of Memphis and now another one has built up almost in its same path. So, this is the event for tonight. You need to have some way of getting warnings if you're in that zone because this will continue through the evening overnight hours and you need to have something that we can wake you up.
Tornado sirens are not made to wake you up. They're made to tell you, if you're outside, to go inside. They're not made to go through the walls in your windows and wake you up while you're sleeping in your bed. So, you need to have something. The (inaudible) weather radio always worked and our phones work just as well.
There is what it will look like later on tonight hour by hour as we move you through Columbus into Pittsburgh, and yes, even into the northeast by morning. So, there will be severe weather. There will be warnings going off. There will be tornadoes on the ground for much of the night. Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: Okay, Chad. Thank you very much for those warnings.
All right. Meanwhile, Gwyneth Paltrow won her ski crash trial, but what was it like being in that courtroom? Guys, were about to find out because a member of the jury is going to join us and tell us all about it, next.
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[22:35:00]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Was Gwyneth Paltrow at fault?
UNKNOWN: No.
UNKNOWN: Was Terry Sanderson at fault?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Oscar-winning actress, Gwyneth Paltrow, is savoring her victory in the ski collision trial in a Utah classroom, but the retired optometrist who sued her says he's very disappointed by the outcome.
The jury found Paltrow is not liable for the collision on a ski slope with Terry Sanderson. She had countersued claiming that Sanderson plowed into her and a jury agreed.
And joining me now is Sam Imrie, one of the jurors. Sam, thanks so much for your time tonight. So, tell us, take us into the jury deliberation room, like how long did it take to -- was everybody in agreement that she wasn't at fault or did it take some convincing?
SAM IMRIE, JUROR IN GWYNETH PALTROW TRIAL: We were all in agreement. So, it was about two and a half hours and it was a very interesting time. I think we all waited two weeks to speak to each other. That's just crazy to see something and hear all this evidence and the law and then wait two weeks and finally get to talk to each other. It was -- it was really interesting to see we were all in the same page.
CAMEROTA: Okay. So, it took you two and half hours. I mean, what took so long, if you got in there and you were all on the same page?
IMRIE: That's a good point. Well, there were nine questions. So, we had a lot to decide. And it was really hard to say that Terry Sanderson was at fault because, you know, it seems like just an accident, right? So, I think that was probably the hardest part of it for us. But I think right of the bat, it mainly took us, I don't know, less than 20 minutes to say that Gwyneth was not at fault.
CAMEROTA: And so, was there a particular moment in the trial that convinced you? Was there some compelling evidence where you figured, okay, it's not her fault?
IMRIE: I think her testimony really made sense and I felt that she was telling the truth. However, there was a lot of evidence provided. I mean, this is eight days of evidence. So, I think hearing her expert witness, Dr. Scher, really brought it home for me, at least. And to hear him validate that her version of the story was actually the most likely.
CAMEROTA: And did -- was there a moment where you ever thought, hmm, but she is an award-winning actress, maybe she's, you know, bluffing?
IMRIE: Absolutely. I mean, I had to keep that in the back of my mind. But then at the end of the day, you know, we have to treat everyone the same in the courtroom and I think that's our job as the jury is to look at all these individuals and, you know, forget what they do for a living or anything like that, and say, this is a person and we have to treat them all equally.
CAMEROTA: When you were called for jury duty, at what point did you realize, oh, I'm going to be on a jury with Gwyneth Paltrow as the defendant? When did that realization happen?
IMRIE: I don't think I realized that until I actually got into the courtroom on the first day and saw her because when they said her name, I was like, oh, that's interesting, somebody else had named their child Gwyneth Paltrow. Surely, she is not from (inaudible) county. That makes no sense. So, I was pretty shocked.
[22:39:55]
CAMEROTA: Yeah, I bet. That's amazing. And one last question, there was some talk about how Terry Sanderson's attorney seemed to be kind of taken with Gwyneth, like seemed to be asking her lots of sort of starstruck questions. Did you get that impression when you were in the jury box?
IMRIE: It was interesting because that was the first female attorney to get on the stand. And so, I couldn't tell if it was just because she was female or if it was because she was starstruck and I couldn't really tell that there was some -- there was no light to that testimony than any of the others ones. And it was pretty entertaining, I will say.
CAMEROTA: Yeah, I bet. Well, Sam. Thank you very much. Thanks, I really appreciate you taking us inside there. I bet that was a fascinating eight days. So, we've been watching and we really appreciate getting your perspective.
IMRIE: Absolutely. Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Thanks for being here. All right. Back with my panel now, Mondaire, S.E., Joe and Patrick. Yes.
PATRICK MCENROE, ESPN TENNIS COMMENTATOR: Can we get there in New York by Tuesday? You know what I mean?
CAMEROTA: Our jury -- our jurors?
MCENROE: Yeah.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
MCENROE: Yeah, jurors.
CAMEROTA: Oh, yes. Yes.
MCENROE: We have something going on, I'd like just the way she talked about, you know, the jury doing their job.
CAMEROTA: Yes. She needs to be on the grand jury.
MCENROE: (Inaudible) evidence.
CAMEROTA: Grand jury.
MCENROE: Yes. Exactly. Going to the evidence.
CAMEROTA: Yes, thank you. I'm glad you two were entertained by this story.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Brava to Sam because it is so hard to take this trial seriously and she did. Obviously, as a juror, that's her job. But -- and I'm going to put this out there. My husband will be very pleased that I'm sharing his conspiracy theory.
CAMEROTA: Oh, great.
CUPP: He believes that this was scripted and it's going to be a movie and we're all going to find out because the characters were so crazy and weird and eccentric.
CAMEROTA: So, we're going to find out there's a reality show that Gwyneth Paltrow is starring in?
CUPP: This is his theory. I disagree.
MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're going to be in a lot trouble for that, a lot of legal trouble.
CUPP: Yes. Yes. Obviously, but he --
JONES: But it would be a fun plot.
CUPP: But it's so wild. The quotes were wild. The -- both attorney -- you know -- the attorneys, you know, wild.
MCENROE: Next thing, you're going to know, A.I. is going to write the script, right?
CAMEROTA: That's -- or maybe it did.
MCENROE: For the next part.
CAMEROTA: Or maybe it did already.
MCENROE: Maybe it aready did. Was there --
CAMEROTA: Okay. But she was talking about the plaintiff's attorney who we're wondering if she was starstruck. So, let's just play a -- 20 seconds of this so everybody can get this impression.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: You were wearing goggles and helmets?
GWYNETH PALTROW, ACTRESS: Yes.
UNKNOWN: Okay. Kind of look like everybody else on the slope.
PALTROW: That's always my intention.
UNKNOWN: Okay. Probably had a better ski outfit, though, I bet.
PALTROW: I still have the same one.
UNKNOWN: May I ask how tall you are?
PALTROW: I'm just under 5'10".
UNKNOWN: Okay. I am so jealous.
PALTROW: I think I'm shrinking now.
UNKNOWN: You and me both. I have to wear a 4-inch heels just to make it to 5'5".
PALTROW: Wow. They're very nice.
UNKNOWN: Thank you.
PALTROW: I was yelling at him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Patrick, what's happening?
MCENROE: I mean, that's just A plus right there. I mean that is just too good. I mean, talk about her performance right there. But you know what? In all seriousness, I mean, I give her credit for saying, you know, this is absurd, right, that this guy brought this case.
CAMEROTA: We're going through with the trial and not settle.
MCENROE: So going through with it and just say they had an accident on the ski slopes. I mean, come on. This happens all the time. And this guy had to, you know -- then in between the time when the accident actually happened and he was supposed to have had all these issues, right, he's hiking, he's ziplining, he's white water rafting, you know, that was on his social media. So, his argument --
JONES: But critically he lost his taste with wine tasting, right? I think that was when the damage was --
CUPP: Well, excuse me. She also lost half day of skiing, so please.
CAMEROTA: Joe?
JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I just think at some point we're just going to stop calling things a hot mess, a whole mess. This is going to be a whole goop (ph), right? It's just --
CUPP: That's going to be new.
PINION: -- just into puberty (ph), just it's a goop (ph) --
MCENROE: It's a goop.
PINION: It's a goop, call it a day. I don't know.
CUPP: Yeah.
CAMEROTA: But I thought that attorney --
CUPP: That was a tactic. I thought that was a strategy --
CAMEROTA: To do what?
CUPP: To get her comfortable.
JONES: Yeah.
CUPP: I've been deposed and I have -- I have had attorneys trying to sort of like soften you up and I know you're a pro Ms. Cupp so you're used to this. And then they try to get you to relax. I think that's what she was doing.
JONES: I thought it was, too. I mean, so -- and I've said this before, I thought that at least that's -- that was her original intention, maybe that -- clearly, that was not how it was perceived by many people of America. But my sense was she was trying to sort of not just disarm her but also to make it seem to the jury that this is actually someone who is an unusual woman, right? Because, you know, she's famous and she doesn't live the life that the rest of us lived, and I thought that that was the angle she was trying. But it seemed -- and it's in the contrary that she was just fawning over her, I think.
PINION: It was also that old theory, a half truth is a whole lie, and it's like, see, (inaudible), she wouldn't even tell the truth about how tall she is, right? And so, it becomes a whole thing.
MCENROE: She's shrinking.
CUPP: That was his problem, in fact. He got caught lying about his height. The whole thing was crazy.
CAMEROTA: Well, you guys have a lot to say about it, which I really appreciate. Thank you all very much.
Okay. Now, to something much more serious, big charges over the alleged importing of opioids into the U.S., which were disguised as chocolates, wedding favors, and make up, and what might be the most shocking part of this story, the charges are against the executive director of a California police union. That story, next.
[22:45:10]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: A disturbing story out of California, a woman is facing federal charges after allegedly importing fentanyl and other opioids from overseas and distributing them across the U.S. They were labeled as chocolates, wedding favors, and make up. Here's the craziest part, the suspect is the executive director of a police union.
Authorities alleged 64-year-old Joanne Segovia, seen on your screen here, ordered thousands of synthetic opioids from countries including Hong Kong, India and Singapore.
[22:50:04]
Segovia's been charged with an attempt to unlawfully import fentanyl. She faces a maximum sentence of 20 years.
So, I mean, there's a lot of interesting things about this, you know, dirty cop -- I mean, she's not a cop, but she's the executive director of this police union but also she does not fit the stereotype of what we think of as fentanyl distributor. I mean, she is not a Mexican mule crossing the border illegally. She, as you said, looks like your grandma.
CUPP: It may in fact she is a grandma and that layer of it for me is so hard to get over that she has children and grandchildren. And this is such an epidemic. I mean, I worry that my kids just going to find it on the street because you hear of that happening. You don't have to be a drug user to run into fentanyl and have an awful, sometimes fatal and deadly experience. To be a mother and grandmother, who is distributing this, is really, really hard to stomach.
CAMEROTA: Yeah, totally agree. She faces a maximum of 20 years. That doesn't seem long enough.
CUPP: No.
CAMEROTA: I mean, for fentanyl -- for what fentanyl is doing.
MCENROE: I mean -- I mean, unfortunately, it's like an opportunistic crime, right?
CAMEROTA: Yeah.
MCENROE: I mean, there's so much of this stuff around. And it's, obviously, a major problem in the country, a major epidemic. And this person saw this opportunity to make a quick bucket. Unfortunately, stuff like this has been happening for a while. This is -- this is just a horrible story.
PINION: I just think that most people that die of a fentanyl overdose aren't trying to take fentanyl, right? They saw this counterfeit prescription drugs, this that are laced with fentanyl and people are dying, right? And so, we have all of these. I've indicted co- conspirators who have allowed this to happen.
And now, for this woman, with her affiliation with law enforcement, to have that additional taint on the badge at a time when we need law enforcement to be the tip of the sphere in our fight to prevent these needless fentanyl deaths. It's just -- it's sickening. It's heart wrenching. There is enough time you can give somebody like that. And yet, I think it speaks to just how deep and pernicious this crisis truly has become.
CAMEROTA: Yeah. I mean, just the face -- her being the face of this is kind of stunning.
JONES: Yeah, it is. I mean, look -- I mean, I think it also speaks to the fact that there is no industry, there is no profession in America that is immune to corruption, right? So, like we need to have an open mind as we try to root out corruption, whether it's in law enforcement or elsewhere in our society, and I think this is an example of that.
CAMEROTA: And she's been doing it for a while. She's been doling this for years because I think that you make a lot of money. I don't think it's just like a quick buck. I think that you can make a lot of money. I mean, it seems like -- I was thinking of Ozark (ph) -- you know, I was thinking of some sort of Hollywood --
JONES: One of my favorite shows.
CAMEROTA: -- doesn't this feel like, I bet it's going to be, so do I?
CUPP: Yeah. Because it's so -- I mean, she had -- she had access. It's like the fire chief being the arsonist, you know --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
CUPP: -- no one would suspect her, which is why I assumed this went on as long as it was able to. But I want the movie, I want to know how she was caught, I want to know how this happened, because, you know, if she can do it, my God, it must be much easier for someone who is without all that scrutiny to do it, too.
CAMEROTA: And with 61 --
MCENROE: I think -- I think S.E. -- sorry, Alisyn. I think S.E. is becoming a movie producer now. I mean, she's got the Gwyneth story. She's got this one. I mean, what's next for you?
CAMEROTA: What's next for you, S.E.? I'm trying to -- like at 61 shipments and the way that they were mailed to her, they were labeled wedding party favors, gift make up, chocolate and sweets. I mean, it's amazing law enforcement -- when law enforcement busts things like this.
JONES: But also like five of those packages were intercepted and reviewed, right? So, how long did law enforcement know this is going on before they eventually said, okay, we got to stop?
CAMEROTA: Maybe they were waiting for her to lead them to a big fish?
PINION: Well, I think also you got to figure out in cases like that even when you go back to the (inaudible) before they were officially shut down in the dark web, right? You're trying to figure out, is somebody just trying to send it to this unsuspecting victim and then going to leave it on the porch for somebody else to pick it up or is that person intricately involved. And if so, how deep down the rabbit hole does this go? So, I think --
JONES: Who else was involved?
PINION: Who else was involved? So, either way, I think, again, when you look at all the layers here, I mean, you talk about the Chinese Communist Party. You talked about what's happening in the southern border. And yet again, it's always sometimes even the grannies here at state side who are helping to drink (ph) -- have this poison go into the drinking well of society.
CAMEROTA: Well, I, too, want to know more about it. So, we will follow up and bring you more as we learn it.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump's defenders claiming he's indictment amounts to a political prosecution. But if and when this case goes to trial, will the legal facts undercut that argument. We're going to talk about it with my new panel --
UNKNOWN: What?
CAMEROTA: I know. Guys, I'm cheating on you. I'm bringing in a new panel for the next hour. I mean, you guys are great, but we're going to see what this panel -- we're going to see this panel can do.
CUPP: Don't worry, I'm staying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: Donald Trump will be arraigned in a Manhattan criminal court on Tuesday. The grand jury's indictment of Trump in an alleged hush money scheme is still under seal. But sources tells CNN he faces more than 30 counts related to business fraud. My new panel is here with me. We got rid of those other sticks in the mud. We had L.Z. -- I'm sorry, one of them is still here.
CUPP: I'm still here.
CAMEROTA: I can hear you.
L.Z. GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: There's one stick left. There's one stick left.
CAMEROTA: L.Z. Granderson, S.E. Cupp, who is still here, thank goodness, Molly Jong-Fast, and criminal defense attorney, Sam Braverman.
First, I want to bring in Texas Republican Congressman Pete Sessions. Congressman, thanks so much for your time tonight.
REP. PETE SESSIONS (R-TX): Good evening. Delighted to be with you. And thank you, Alisyn.
[22:59:57]
CAMEROTA: Great to have you here. So, we've had 24 hours for this news to sync in. So, what is your reaction to the indictment of Former President Trump?
