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Trump Is Accused Of Battery And Defamation; Cash App Founder Died After Stabbing; NC Democrat Switches Parties Months After Election. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 05, 2023 - 23:00   ET




ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: The next hearing in Donald Trump' hush money criminal case is not until December 4th. That's eight months away. But there is a trial involving Donald Trump coming up much sooner. This month, in fact. On April 25th, Donald Trump goes on trial here in New York for the battery and defamation of E. Jean Carroll.

She is a former columnist and magazine writer. She alleges that Donald Trump raped her in a New York department store dressing room in the mid-1990s. Here's what she told me about that incident just a few years ago.


E. JEAN CARROLL, FORMER COLUMNIST AND MAGAZINE WRITER, TRUMP ACCUSER: The minute he closed that door, I was banged up against the wall.

CAMEROTA (voice-over): He slammed you against the wall?

CARROLL: Yeah. I hit my head really hard. Boom. I was stunned. Right? And then he tried to kiss me, which was -- it was so hard but -- so my reaction was to laugh, to knock off the erotic whatever he had going on because the man, when you laugh at him, he's like, no. You know, he just went at it.

CAMEROTA: And when you say went at it, you know. I mean --

CARROLL: He pulled down my tights. And, uh, it was a fight. It was -- I want women to know that I did not stand there, I did not freeze, I was not paralyzed, which is a reaction that I could have had because it's so shocking. No, I fought.


CAMEROTA: Carroll sue Trump after he posted on social media last year that her accusation is a hoax and a lie, and writing -- quote -- "This woman is not my type."

We have a lot to discuss with my new panel here. We have Misty Marris. She is a defense and trial attorney. We also have John Hart, former communications director for Senator Tom Coburn. Lauren Leader is a political analyst and Jessica Washington is senior reporter for "The Root." Great to have all of you here.

Misty, as our attorney, what do you think of this case? I mean -- let me just start by saying that because I think we've all been consumed with what the Manhattan D.A. is doing and with the Stormy Daniels thing, I think that we've given short shrift to this E. Jean Carroll case, which she has been talking about for years. And now, we will talk about that and that will be next, but in terms of the case, tell us what we need to know.

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yeah, this case has really been overlooked in light of everything else that's going on, but I've been following this case very closely. So, what -- here's what we have. We have a defamation case and the defamation case is that Donald Trump went and said she's a liar, she's mentally ill, this is a hoax, all of these defamatory statements.

Well, now, there's also another claim. It is an Adult Survivors Act claim. That is for the underlying battery, which is the alleged rape. So, in general, look, this case goes back to the 90s. She's the plaintiff. This is a civil case. So, she has to prove this case by a preponderance of the evidence. That's very, very difficult when you go back so far in time. And this is a new statute in New York, so we're looking back to these older cases.

CAMEROTA: Let me ask you. Why is it battery, not rape?

MARRIS: So, that's the -- in a civil charge -- in a civil case, it's going to be battery. In a criminal case, it would be rape. But look, there's some evidence that's going to come into the courtroom.

In an evidentiary decision that just came down, there are going to be two other women who claimed to be survivors in similar circumstances with Donald Trump. The judge says that's going to come in, both of those instances where he isolated them and did the exact same thing, same type of thing. This is coming in as what's called propensity evidence.

In another one, the old Access Hollywood tape, that's coming in to show that he, in his own words, has touched women without their consent in the past.

So, the scales have really changed from what is usually a big hole for the plaintiff to having some corroborating evidence on their behalf. So, I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

LAUREN LEADER, POLITICAL ANALYST, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO OF ALL IN TOGETHER: I mean, Alisyn, you're right to point out that we should be paying more attention to this case, and I've been saying this for weeks, actually. We talked about it a little bit when I was here last time.

I mean, it is profoundly important when you look at sort of what is happening in Donald Trump's world this week and the number of cases that involve abuse of women fundamentally that are closing in around him. Right?


The Stormy Daniels case ultimately was about him trying to silence women and going to extraordinary lengths to cover up to the public his abominable behavior and treatment of women, especially right after the Access Hollywood case.

And then in the same month, you've got Jean Carroll's incredibly important case. And, you know, you really have to feel for Jean Carroll because she has had everything working against her in trying to bring this case. She has been at this for decades. And thanks to this Survivors Act in New York that there is even an opening for her.

That also speaks to the number of people, women, children, etcetera, who've had sexual assault cases -- experiences in their lives and it has taken them years to be able to talk about it. It was an incredibly important legal precedent in New York that allows these cases to go forward. So, we should not be overlooking this. It's important.

CAMEROTA: And one of the women that Misty was just talking about that's going to be allowed to be part of this trial is a woman named Jessica Leeds. She's not accusing Donald Trump of rape, but she does say that he groped her on a plane. So, here's what she told Anderson in 2016.


JESSICA LEEDS, TRUMP ACCUSER: He was grabbing my breasts and trying to turn me towards him and kissing the -- then after a bit, that's when his hands started going. I was wearing a skirt, and his hands started going towards my knee and up my skirt. His hands were everywhere.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Did he actually kiss you?

LEEDS: Yeah.

COOPER: On the face, on the lips?

LEEDS: All -- wherever he could find a landing spot.


CAMEROTA: Jessica, more than a dozen women over the years have accused Donald Trump of some kind of sexual misconduct.

JESSICA WASHINGTON, SENIOR REPORTER, THE ROOT: Yeah, it is truly horrifying, and I think what E. Jean Carroll said is not outside of the pale of what we've heard from these other accusations.

In a previous job that I had part of what I was doing was keeping track of Trump's allegation -- of the allegations against Trump, all the credible ones, and you just kept hearing patterns that were so, so similar.

So, we can talk about the politics of this at a certain point, but we also just have to say this is someone who was a former U.S. president who is now a presidential candidate and has these many accusations. And the fact that it hasn't moved the needle in some ways is also really concerning.

CAMEROTA: John, your thoughts?

JOHN HART, CO-FOUNDER OF C3 SOLUTIONS, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SENATOR TOM COBURN: Look, I think it's perilous for Republicans to reflexively support Donald Trump and defend him. You know, members of Congress were elected to the House of Representatives, not the house of defense attorneys. And the response they should give to these allegations is to say that's where Trump's defense attorneys to handle, he deserves due process.

But Republicans should focus on their agenda. The same day he was indicted, the House passed H.R. 1, the Lower Energy Costs Act, which is the republican vision for how to how to do energy innovation, how to help the climate, how to help the economy grow. And that's what Republicans ought to be focused on.

CAMEROTA: They're not. I mean --

HART: Well --

CAMEROTA: -- you hear them -- I mean, they --

HART: They want -- they want to be --

CAMEROTA: -- they are circling the wagons around --

HART: -- they want to be.

CAMEROTA: I suppose, but I mean, it is hard to see that when they -- as you point out, yes, of course, reporters asked them questions about this. So, I understand that they wouldn't want necessarily that to be their first order of business. However, they're not distancing themselves from Donald Trump.

HART: Well, not enough are. But, you know -- look, the House, if you took a private poll of Republicans, vast from supermajority would rather be talking about H.R. 1. They don't want to be talking about Donald Trump. Ant the more members make courageous decisions to not defend him. The easier it's going to be and the more they're going to be rewarded politically for doing that.

LEADER: Republicans have a very serious woman problem, and they've had a serious woman problem for the last three election cycles. And that is by aligning themselves with Donald Trump, they have alienated suburban women voters who have voted aggressively against them for now three cycles and have handed a huge number of elections to Democrats.

And the problem with, you know, the -- this sort of unwillingness to ever come out in public and condemn behavior that they know is repellent to women voters is that they continue to repel women voters. And I think this is another one of those cases.

If they want to be talking about H.R. 1, they should really be talking about think H.R. 1 and not be talking about, you know, not be trashing every prosecutor and every witness and every person involved in these cases.

CAMEROTA: Do you agree --


CAMEROTA: Let me have him respond. Do you agree?

HART: It's not -- it's not -- it's not a totally partisan issue. Look, there are plenty of Democrats like Bill Clinton who have a very troubled history with women.

CAMEROTA: Right now, do you agree that Republicans still have woman problem?

HART: Absolutely. Republicans have a very serious challenge, winning not just women voters but suburban voters, because they have pandered to Trump's vision of populism. And that is not conservative. It's not constitutional.

So, Republicans have a path forward if they go back to Reagan conservatism. Trump was successful when he -- when he deferred to the Reagan coalition. And that coalition is still a lot more powerful than people give it credit for.

CAMEROTA: Misty, I want to go back to the E. Jean Carroll case. So, is Donald Trump going to have to testify?


MARRIS: He really is because keep in mind, this is a civil case. That's a really important distinction. In a criminal case, a defendant can sit at the table and choose not to testify, and you cannot hold it against that individual.

In a civil case, they are compelled to testify if he were to not testify an adverse inference, which is a negative inference can be taken by the jury and they can assume whatever he would have said would have been to his detriment.

So, he has already testified under oath, though. There is a deposition out there. So, I would expect his lawyers to be prepping him within the confines of whatever came out in the four corners of that deposition. But keep in mind, when you get on the stand, credibility is king. So, now, we're going to be talking about challenging his credibility and it might go outside the scope of this case.

I would expect the plaintiff's attorneys to push for catching him in all sorts of untruth, the veracity of anything he said, even outside of this case, and the defense to try and narrow it. That's the right we're going to see go into the courtroom.

I know this judge. He's very fair. But he will take that step if it is -- if it is within the confines of the law. And again, credibility is a central issue in a case, especially one where it really is both sides of the story without a lot of corroborating evidence since it happened back in the 90s.


WASHINGTON: And politically, one thing I am interested in seeing from this case is what happens when Republicans have a choice, because a lot of these things happened came out after the primaries. So, we're actually seeing these allegations are going to be talked about in court.

Trump is, like you said, going to have to testify and discuss these things ahead of a primary when Republicans will actually have a choice between candidates and not necessarily when they'll feel like it's either a Democrat or Republican. I think this is a test. This is a true test of where the party is at if Trump were to win the nomination after having this trial.

CAMEROTA: It's so interesting as we were talking about it, Lauren, because we also talked so much about what's going on in Georgia, and that scene is very high stakes, high legal jeopardy for Donald Trump. Of course, January 6 and what's happening with the special prosecutor. This case has consumed so much energy this week in Manhattan. But this one is where he will have to theoretically be on the stand. I mean, this is also a very vulnerable moment.

LEADER: I think we really underestimated actually how powerful and important this case maybe. I mean, we as media and those covering it, I've been saying this for a long time. I mean -- especially in this sort of like post Weinstein world. Right? There is a new level of accountability in the public, I think, for, you know, attacks on women.

We're going to see how far that accountability goes, you know. Clearly, Trump has never been held accountable for his misogyny. We knew about the Access Hollywood tapes but, of course, now it does all sort of fit together.

And to your point about the fact pattern, right, you look at the dynamics of the Stormy Daniels case that he was, in fact, trying to cover up, you know, the allegations. He was hiding this information for the public specifically so they wouldn't know who he was and what he had done in order to win the election. Right?

And it's not that dissimilar in the Jean Carroll case. Right? Just denied, deflect, attack. It's all the same pattern. I think it's an incredibly important case. She deserves a ton of credit for her courage and persistence, which is not easy.

I said the same thing about Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, the women who are involved in these cases, they have -- it is hell for them, and it should be played out in a court. But, you know, we need to take it seriously.

CAMEROTA: So, if E. Jean wins, what happens to Donald Trump?

MARRIS: It is monetary damages. It's a civil case. I do think one interesting point quickly before we end, all of these cases do have impacts on each other. In this particular case, the judge has already said the jury is going to be anonymous. Why? Because of the statements that Donald Trump has made against the judiciary, against other jurors relating to other cases.

By the way, that's unheard of in a civil case. that's usually held for terrorism cases and cases involving organized crime. So that's the bucket that this case is in. That's incredibly remarkable given that we have a civil case in in a federal court and it's being treated with that type of -- with that type of care to ensure that the jury is protected.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting. Thank you all for the perspectives and all that information. All right, next, there's a deadly mystery in San Francisco. The tech entrepreneur who founded the popular Cash App is dead after an apparent stabbing, and San Francisco residents are worried. What it says about crime in the city, that's next.




CAMEROTA: A deadly mystery in San Francisco tonight. Cash App founder Bob Lee killed in an apparent stabbing attack in San Francisco. On early Tuesday morning, police found the 43-year-old with stab wounds. He later died at a local hospital. But no arrests have been made yet. Lee's death is again raising questions about crime in San Francisco.

My panel is back. Also joining us is Felipe Rodriguez. He's a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired NYPD sergeant and detective. Professor, thank you for being here. Put on your detective hat if you would and I know the details are scant but what do you -- which -- what are your hunches tell you about this crime?

FELIPE RODRIGUEZ, PROFESSOR AT JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE, RETIRED NYPD SERGEANT AND DETECTIVE: Well, at this time, we're going to have to actually, you know, go back and see all the clues at the crime scene. One of the things that we do look for now constantly is, you know, CCTV footage, ring footage.

But at this point, what we're seeing is without having additional information like the number of stab wounds. At this point, I can say it's just, you know, random act of crime due to the time that the crime actually occurred at 2:35 in the morning.

If now we get a higher level of stabbings or wounds, then we can say maybe it was something of a more personal level. So, we're going to have to actually, you know, start getting some of the clues together to better determine. But what we're seeing is part of the larger crime wave that the whole U.S. is facing.


CAMEROTA: So basically, meaning if you saw a lot of stab wounds, that would tell you that it wasn't a random attack?

RODRIGUEZ: Correct. Usually, you know, when an individual has a deep- seated hatred for one person, then we see a large number of wounds.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Um, but they -- the police were called at 2:35 a.m. This is not particularly dangerous neighborhood, I don't think, where this happened.


CAMEROTA: And are stabbing attacks, are those often, uh -- in terms of random crime of strangers, is stabbing often how it works?

RODRIGUEZ: Uh, we're starting to see not as much as we have the proliferation of firearms. So, it is very rare. Once again, like I said, we're also going to have to take a look at, you know, his phone because right now, forensic information is -- you know, these phones are constantly giving us more and more.

But you have -- you have an individual that was worth over, you know, $10 million in a relatively low crime area, what they say one of the best areas of San Francisco.

So, you know, this is one of those murder mysteries that, you know, the officers are going to have to start canvassing the area and seeing what kind of, you know, footage they could pick up or maybe any noise that could have been heard in the middle of the night by some of the residents in the area. This is definitely a little bit harder until we get a CCTV or any additional, you know, evidence.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at the statistics of San Francisco. So, in terms of -- from 2021, '22, and '23, homicide has gone up a little bit. If I can pull these numbers up, it was 10 in 2021, 10 in 2002. It's now so far already up to -- this is for this time frame. For this exact time frame, it's up to 12. Then robbery --


CAMEROTA: Yeah. Robbery has ticked up from 594 two years ago to 660. And assault has gone up from 525 to 591. So how do you characterize what's going on, detective, in San Francisco right now?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, as you see, it is at national level. Like I said, you know, I started looking at a lot of different reasons and what we're seeing is one of the contributing factors is the idea of bail reform. While it was a great idea in the beginning, these overcorrections that sometimes are done, you know, for political purposes, sometimes undermined the actual good of the criminal justice system.

As we see, these overcorrections now ended up where we have these high-level criminals which we call like the top 6%. There are other predators out there and they're basically just committing continuous crimes, which are therefore elevating our criminal, you know, acts and our statistics when we look at our national level. CAMEROTA: Um, professor, if you would stand by, I want to bring in my panel now to talk about all of this because, obviously, crime is a conversation that comes up politically all the time and it's very real in some places, not as real as some people fear in other places, John, but San Francisco is mentioned often politically and otherwise because there's a feeling there that something has changed in recent years.

HART: Right. There is the absolute perception that San Francisco is kind of the focus of a soft on crime trend. And we're entering a new phase in the crime debate. You know, my late father actually was the head of the organized crime squad in Kansas City during "Operation Strongman," which was the basis of the movie "Casino." So, I grew up having a dinner table conversation about the war on drugs, war on crime.

And what happened is we overreached, we overreacted and had too many laws that were tough on crime, and then we went the other direction. So, I think there's a correction happening. I think he talked about the use of the word overcorrection. That's what's happening right now. In some cities, particularly San Francisco, the D.A. was recalled because of the soft on crime stance. And so, I think we're moving into a different direction now.

CAMEROTA: Misty, your thoughts?

MARRIS: I mean, the D.A. has been under scrutiny in San Francisco specifically. But I do think it's such a complicated issue. It's hard to say what the answer is. In this particular case, we don't really know anything about this particular individual to make assumption about whether or not there's a criminal history or anything like that.

And there is a need to scrutinize the laws on the books and make changes and determine that balance between fairness and public safety. It's not an easy process and there's not just one answer that we can all employ.

LEADER: Relative to the last 20 years, crime rates are still very low. They've started to take up and I think the pandemic. We know that the pandemic has contributed to that.

And then in city like San Francisco, there has been this kind of erosion of the city for a long time, partially because the extreme wealth has mostly left the city, gone to the suburbs, gone out to Silicon Valley, and it has left the city sort of under resourced and under invested in. And there have been issues for years.

But I think -- I think you're right, and I worry very much about this, like, immediate backlash of, oh, it's because of the bail reform. There's absolutely no definitive evidence that the bail reform laws have contributed to an increase in crime. That is a very knee jerk reaction.

And the fact is that we have had a mass incarceration issue for years, locking people up for extraordinary -- we incarcerate more people per capita than any nation on earth.


Places like New Orleans, the state of Louisiana, incarcerates more people per capital than anywhere else on the planet like we have an incarceration problem. Crime rates have generally been low. But this stuff hits personally for people. We want solutions. It's scary, but I think we got to be really careful about suddenly saying that, like, these hard-fought reforms to keep our prisons from being warehouses are the reason why -- are the reason why we're seeing these increases.

CAMEROTA: Jessica?

WASHINGTON: Yeah, I would completely agree. I get worried that cases like this where it's just random act of violence, potentially, we don't know, but where people assume this is a random act of violence and then they get scared, and then how do we create these reactionary laws.

We see that constantly in the criminal justice system where one thing happens to someone and it gets publicized, and then all of a sudden, we need all these laws.

And like you said, you know, the folks who study this like the Vera Institute have looked into bail reform. You know, is there any connection to recidivism or increase in violent crime? And they have found none.

So, I think when we're looking at this, we can't just say, well, we think that bail reform would do X, Y, and Z. We have to actually look at the data and we can't just let events that make us feel scared make us do things that harm people on a mass scale.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. We need to talk about this next story. Imagine voting for your state representative and then your state rep changes parties once she's in office. That's happening to voters in North Carolina right now. We'll tell you about it after this.




CAMEROTA: A political bombshell in North Carolina tonight. State Representative Tricia Cotham, who won by 20 points as a Democrat in her blue district last fall, announcing at a press conference today she's now a Republican.


TRICIA COTHAM, NORTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: As long as I have been a Democrat, the democrats have tried to be a big tent. But this now where we are, modern-day Democratic Party has become unrecognizable to me and to so many others throughout this state and this country. I'm no longer a Democrat, but I remain a public servant, that is what I am called to do. The party that best represents me and my principles and what's best for North Carolina is the Republican Party.


CAMEROTA: Her switch means that Republicans now have a veto proof majority in the state House and the Senate. I'm back now with our panel. Also joining us, we have comedian and Princeton fellow Maysoon Zayid. Great to have you.

Um, Lauren, this is a fine, how do you do, for her voters who just voted for her a few months ago.

LEADER: First of all -- first of all, she was endorsed and paid for, her campaign was supported and underwritten by organizations like Emily's List and the human rights campaign. She represents a district that is over 60% Democrat.

CAMEROTA: And she is a longtime Democrat.

LEADER: She is a longtime Democrat. I mean, this feels just so -- I mean, listen, people are entitled to change their views. I would never -- you know, I would never criticized that in another kind of situation. But she literally was just elected, and she was elected based on a set of understandings with her constituents in career of service on the democratic side.

And in a state like North Carolina where the margins are so critical, this is devastating for that community. There is no recall option in this state. The voters cannot get her back even though she completely misrepresented herself.

I think, to me, this is a lot like the George Santos case. She completely pulled the wool over the eyes on her constituents. We're not talking about like years' long evolution. It was like three months! She clearly had this planned.

CAMEROTA: Maysoon, here is what the governor of North Carolina, a Democrat, says is now on the line. Representative Cotham's votes on women's reproductive freedom, election laws, LGBTQ rights and strong public schools will determine the direction of the state we love. It's hard to believe she would abandon these long-held principles and she should still vote the way she has always said she would vote when these issues arise, regardless of her party affiliation.

MAYSOON ZAYID, COMEDIAN: She's not going to vote the way that she said she was going to vote because she's not even representing her constituents. So, you were talking about changing your mind. You can change your mind. But honestly, I think if you were elected as a Democrat, you have to serve as a Democrat.

I know it's a little fun thing where we are all like, oh, Manchin is going to switch party and then all the majority switches. That's not representative. You're representing the people. You're not representing yourself. You were voted in as a Democrat. You could actually vote however you want as the Democrat. You could vote against every bill you said you would support. But giving them the supermajority, that's got to be fraud. It's got to be applied. And either it's a long game for 10 years or three months ago, somebody found something, because you don't just wake up one day and go, no, I don't want equality, I want women to die.

LEADER: She blamed emojis. That's my favorite part.


LEADER: That's really what set her over the edge.

CAMEROTA: Let us talk about that. Here she is. Here's what she says was --

LEADER: That was a bridge too far.

CAMEROTA: This is what the tipping point was for her and why she switched.


COTHAM: One of the absolute worst moments, which was a deal breaker, a turning point for me, was when I was criticized for using the American flag and the praying hands emoji on almost social media platforms, and even on the back of different vehicles that I have.


I really could not believe that was the conversation that was happening at that time, and I was deeply offended. To say that that is wrong and not to be able to show off a flag because the others hijack it for something else, why are we at this place in politics?


CAMEROTA: Jessica?

WASHINGTON: I would just say, I'm incredibly skeptical that is her reason to change party. I would also imagine there are plenty of people who are Christian or who like an American flag who are Democrats in North Carolina. I can't believe that is like a party decision kind of thing.

Um, I do think -- I mean, her constituents must be incredibly concerned because Republicans now do have this veto proof majority, and that means that all these issues that she ran on, publicly ran on, was endorsed by Emily's List. Those are all at threat. And so, I think they must be incredibly scared about what this means.

CAMEROTA: John, your thoughts?

HART: She's not the only Democrat who is concerned about the party being unrecognizable. You know, Joe Manchin is concerned. And the fact is the Democratic Party is not so much the liberal party. It has become an illiberal party. That's increasingly intolerant of different views. You know, woke cancel culture and so on.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Joe Biden is hardly Mr. Woke.

HART: Yeah, but here's -- that's -- that's actually a good example because look at Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Since 2016, I've argued that Donald Trump represents the GOP's personality crisis. Donald Trump is not policy. There is no Trumpism apart from the man whereas -- and Trump plagiarized Reagan and all of his policies, whereas Joe Biden is stealing ideas from Bernie Sanders.

So, Biden shows how the Democratic Party has veered to the left on energy and climate issues. The public is with the Republican view on H.R. 1, the Lower Energy Costs Act. They want permitting reform. They want more nuclear energy. They wanted all of the above energy --

CAMEROTA: But in terms of this --


Hold on. Hold on a second. But in terms of this, do you think that this particular woman, Tricia Cotham, do you think that she has misled her voters and do you think they have a right to be angry today?

HART: I think -- yeah, I think voters always have a right to be angry. I think any politician has the right to change their mind and changed affiliation, and those politicians will be held accountable in the next election. That's how our system of government works. But to not acknowledge if you're a Democrat that your party has problems, you're not dealing with reality.

CAMEROTA: Well, she didn't say -- I hear you, but she didn't say that. She said it was because people were criticizing her for the American flag and praying hands emoji. And I just don't know -- I wish she had said and explained if she meant on social media or her colleagues in the state house. So, I don't know what she means when she says people --


ZAYID: I also just like have to push back on all this and say, I'm looking at a woman who is crying about flags and emojis when we are women of color living in this country gain death threats every single day, being told we don't belong here. I'm a Muslim. You want to talk about praying hands? I lived for a presidency that wanted to ban my family and ban me.

So, when we talk about, oh, it's not a big tent and it doesn't resemble, I don't know. I feel pretty comfortable and pretty safe around the Democratic Party and I don't feel American, safe or welcome, around the GOP. So, even though I feel her being, like, oh, they didn't like my bumper sticker, that's why you're abandoning women's rights?

HART: That comment describes why Donald Trump is such a toxic person. Because the American idea is the opposite of everything you just described, is that our founders believed to freedom of religion and that your rights and your dignity does not depend on your religious affiliation, your ethnicity. That's the American idea. That's what our country was founded on.

LEADER: The problem in North Carolina and in many states around the country is that it is becoming -- it is essentially a tyranny of the minority. You have a state legislature that has super majorities of Republicans in places where actually there is much closer to a 50-50 or 40-60 split among the voters.

It's not just there. It's in Kansas, it's in Wisconsin, it's all over the country where voters, and by the way, even Republican voters are saying they do not want extreme abortion bans. It is the highest number measured in American history.

Sixty-three percent of Americans are saying abortion laws have gone too far. Republicans are not getting the memo. So, in a place like North Carolina, this decision has deadly consequences for millions of women. And so, it's not a joke.

And to, like, mock her voters by talking about emojis, when her voters sent her there to protect their fundamental human rights, it is very disturbing. It's not about party. That's just pure rhetoric.

CAMEROTA: Quickly, Jessica.

WASHINGTON: Yeah, and I always going to say -- yeah, when you're balancing everyone's right to their own bodily autonomy and whether or not you're going to get made fun of for prayer hands, it is --


-- it does feel like a silly conflation of those issues.

CAMEROTA: Okay, thank you all very much. Something for everyone to weigh in on next. The latest trend is apparently being messy.


Thank goodness it has finally come around to our way. We'll explain after this.


CAMEROTA: I am worried. Glad you're calm. I'm worried for yourself. Yeah. Okay. Is your house spick and span or a dumpster fire? If it's the latter, you're in luck. It's the latest thing on TikTok, the rise of the messy home.


UNKNOWN (voice-over): What I needed was not someone to try and turn me from a messy person to a neat person, but someone to teach me how to clean as a messy person.


Someone to give me the freedom to just live my day the way I want to live it without thinking about things.



CAMEROTA: She's basically giving people the permission to have a messy home because she says that a messy home can be shaming. You know, you feel guilty when your house is messy. And so, there's a way she suggests to, um, clean it up sort of rationally. So, let's talk about it. Who is a neat freak here? Maysoon?


CAMEROTA: And why are you a neat freak? Does that give you pleasure?

ZAYID: It gives me a ton of pleasure. First of all, I'm Muslim. We like bathed five times a day. We're just clean.


We're a clean people. But I love order. I love having my house clean. And I feel like, again, if the (inaudible) clean her house, so can you.


I can't mop, I'll fall on my face, but I can put the towel under my butt and scooch.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. Wow!

ZAYID: Yeah. I believe in clean. And let me make like a disclaimer. If you're neurodivergent, if you have mental health problems that don't allow you to clean, I'm not shaming you. I'm talking about the people who can clean and don't, who go on to TikTok and are like, no, (INAUDIBLE), like no, it's not.


And also, I have the best tip.

CAMEROTA: What is it? What is it?

ZAYID: Because I have chaos magic. This is what you do. You have one room or one closet in your house that you throw all the stuff that has no place. So, five minutes before people come, you pick up the cat, the golf club, the food, and you put it all --

LEADER: That is great.

CAMEROTA: I think that's a great -- that' a great tip.

LEADER: No, no, no.

CAMEROTA: That's the way to do. Why? Why isn't that a good tip?

LEADER: I wouldn't know that it's there and I wouldn't see.


LEADER: Just knowing -- knowing that there's mess.

CAMEROTA: So, you're a neat freak, too?

LEADER: Oh, yeah. It's not a freak. That's the appropriate way to live.


LEADER: But also, I have to say, my one point about this, you know, it is like torture for women because we need the dudes to start cleaning. (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: John, this is where you hit (ph).

HART: I have zones of cleanliness. I like to create little sections that are beautiful where I can reflect and contemplate. We have a 62- acre farm, so I have a lot to maintain.

CAMEROTA: I like this (ph). (INAUDIBLE).

HART: (INAUDIBLE) create a little area. And I have boxes. I don't have -- I don't have closets. I have boxes. And sometimes, I discover a box that, you know, I probably should -- I probably should have gone through that.

CAMEROTA: What is in the box?

ZAYID: Priced material, obviously.

HART: Just like --

CAMEROTA: I like this.

HART: It is sort of Winnie have company coming over (ph).

CAMEROTA: You just toss it in a box. And where is that box lived then in the closet?

HART: Well, it's like stacked up in a corner or in the closet. Yeah.

CAMEROTA: I think that this is kind of the same --

WASHINGTON: I mean, I like the idea, but I live in a two-bedroom apartment in New York City. I don't have like a ton of just shoving things space --

UNKNOWN: Under the sink.

WASHINGTON: Under the -- well, there's a lot of stuff on this.



CAMEROTA: When I was in New York, I had like the big pan that I use for Thanksgiving for my turkey like under the bed.

LEADER: Like Carrie Bradshaw (ph) with the sweaters in the oven.

CAMEROTA: And I cleaned it. All right, thank you all very much for those helpful hints. Meanwhile, life in plastic is fantastic. The new trailer for the "Barbie" movie just dropped and it shows everything is great except for Ken.


UNKNOWN: What are you doing here?

UNKNOWN: I'm coming with you.

UNKNOWN: Did you bring your rollerblades?

UNKNOWN: I literally go nowhere without them.





CAMEROTA: The "Barbie" movie is coming out in July and it stars Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling as Ken.


UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.


UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.

UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.

UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.

UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.

UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.

UNKNOWN: Hi, Barbie.




UNKNOWN: I might stay over tonight.


UNKNOWN: Because we're girlfriend-boyfriend?

UNKNOWN: To do what?

UNKNOWN: I'm actually not sure.



CAMEROTA: The movie is distributed by Warner Bros. Pictures, which is owned by CNN's parent company. I'm back with the panel. So, that looks like a riot. But what -- I don't know the plot line, but I think that from what little I've read about it, from what little they've released, I should say, is that it might be a sort of modern send up of Ken. Because all is well in Barbie world, but all is not well with Ken.

LEADER: Well, Greta Gerwig is like an incredible like feminist writer. And so, you've got to imagine that, like, all of the gender stuff that's wrapped up in Barbie. That, of course, was my entire childhood. And by the way, my mother tried desperately and my feminist mother worked for years to keep me away from Barbie, and she failed. It was all I wanted.

CAMEROTA: You got like a bootleg Barbie? How did you get the Barbie?

LEADER: (INAUDIBLE) because my aunt would give it to me. She knew. She was, like, she wants the Barbie, just give her the Barbie. She is not going to play with the truck. So, that was feminism, was like Barbie is the worst and, you know, she's bad for girls and she is, but then amazing and then you've got Greta Gerwig, and I think it's going to be incredible.

CAMEROTA: I mean, there are all sorts of Barbie backlash, obviously, but this seems like -- I don't know. Just a different way to do it.

WASHINGTON: Yeah. Anyone can be Barbie. I mean, no, there are all these different Barbies that are supposed to be in the movie. So, you've got Pulitzer Prize winner Barbie, you got Arthur (ph) Barbie.

CAMEROTA: Oh, that's good. And we have Barbie, a future Oscar winner, who is Jessica? Do we have the send up of Jessica as a Barbie?


WASHINGTON: Is this it?

LEADER: Who is that?




That's awesome. Okay, what do we have next? Who do we have next? Okay, Lauren, here is you as Barbie.

LEADER: That's awesome.

ZAYID: You're basically Barbie.

LEADER: I really do feel Barbie for this one.

CAMEROTA: That's awesome. Okay, Maysoon. Oh, John is Ken.


CAMEROTA: Mustache. I like this. Okay, let us see Maysoon. Waiting. Hold. Please hold. Please hold.

UNKNOWN: Oh, my God. You're glamorous. You are a Barbie.

ZAYID: Yeah, but I have a love-hate relationship with Barbie, like, I would love to be a Barbie like Laverne Cox or like Misty Copeland, but she scarred me for life because I bought Becky, the wheelchair using Barbie, when I was a child, and she didn't fit into the dream house. And then they discontinued her because nobody wants to hang out in the driveway.

CAMEROTA: Maysoon, this is an entire segment.

ZAYID: (INAUDIBLE) can make it up by casting me in the sequel.


ZAYID: (INAUDIBLE) take care of that.

CAMEROTA: There you go. Wow, there you go. Mattel, do that. All right, thank you all very much for watching. Tomorrow, on "CNN This Morning," there's a dramatic Pentagon-FBI mix up inside the training exercise gone wrong, right here on CNN starting at 6:00 a.m. Eastern.

Thanks, everybody. Our coverage continues now.