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CNN Tonight

SCOTUS Courting Controversy with Pending Decision on Abortion Pill, Affirmative Action, Voting Rights Looming; NRA Convention Kicks Off Days After Louisville Mass Shooting; Kentucky Law Requires Police to Auction Off Louisville Shooter's Seized Gun; The NFL Unveils a Quarterback-specific Helmet Against Concussions. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 14, 2023 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm speaking as a representative of my parents, my grandmother, my cousins who have died, my umpteen school mates. They are unable to speak. It's my responsibility to speak on their behalf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The tour begins with a cramped elevator ride into the dark corridors of the Nazi's rise to power. But it ends with this striking room, the Hall of Remembrance, a place where people to sit, to reflect and to remember, to remember the witnesses, to remember their stories, remember them like I remember my mom and my dad every single day. We must never forget so this never happens again.

REPORTER: I asked this question to a lot of people. Do you always think of yourself as a survivor?

DAVID BLITZER, SURVIVOR, FATHER OF WOLF BLITZER (voice-over): I am still a builder.

REPORTER: You're still a builder.

D. BLITZER: I have money, I have wonderful wife but I have no people

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN Tonight.

The Supreme Court is on the cusp of making monumental decisions that could change life as we've known it for decades, starting with whether to restrict access to an abortion medication that's been used for two decades.

Next to come, affirmative action and voting rights, all of this amidst new revelations today about Clarence Thomas. It was not just luxury trips that he accepted from a Republican mega donor. He also allegedly took cash in exchange for real estate. Our panel tells us if that's unethical or illegal or both.

Plus, we know how dangerous concussions can be for athletes and how they can lead to brain damage known as CTE. Well, now the family of the shooter in the Louisville bank massacre wants his brain examined for CTE after he reportedly had multiple concussions in high school. And lots changed since the olden days, a father knows best. Many women now make as much money or more than their husbands. So, why are women still doing the lion's share of housework? We'll get our panel's perspective on a new study.

And stay tuned for our Friday night news quiz. See if you know more about what happened this week than our panelists.

But let's start with the Supreme Court. We want to bring in our panel. We have former Watergate Prosecutor Nick Akerman, we have Jessica Washington from The Root, Jay Michaelson, who clerked for Merrick Garland and was on the Supreme Court beat at The Daily Beast for many years, and former Senate Candidate Joe Pinion. Guys, happy Friday, great to have you all here.

So, Jay, with your credentials, you're clerking for Merrick Garland, your Supreme Court beat, let's -- Jay just looked at the Watergate prosecutor, like my credentials of Supreme Court specifically. So, just tell us what you read the tea leaves for us of what's happening right now at the Supreme Court.

JAY MICHAELSON, COLUMNIST, ROLLING STONE: Well, you know, this Supreme Court has jumped the shark so many times, you know, that there're normal sharks left to jump. But, certainly, hearing the abortion medication appeal on an emergency basis makes sense. This is very time-sensitive matter. It's going to go to the Supreme Court anyway, so they should -- it's appropriate to take this case. Justice Alito properly granted review, paused for a short period of time. That doesn't mean anything in terms of what they're going to do.

But certainly, when we look at the docket, this is what you get when you have a court process that's really been taken over by an extreme edge of one of the parties, the Republican Party, and all of these, certainly the abortion medication pill case and the voting rights case should be slam dunks, but anything goes.

CAMEROTA: Joe, in terms of the conservative leaning of the court, is it a conservative position to do away with an FDA-approved drug that's been around for two decades and is considered safer than aspirin?

JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, there's a lot to unpack there. I think that at the end of the day, the court is going to review this, go through their process. I don't -- again, I just want to reiterate, I don't think we have conservative judges or liberal judges. I think we just have justices that do their level best.

[22:05:00]

Certainly, there are more conservative thinking in their ideology or liberal thinking in their ideology.

I think, overall, again, what we are witnessing is not, I think, a function of a radical right-wing. I think it's a breakdown of our politics. I think that we have left too much up to the courts to decide. I think that we have politicians at the state level, at the federal level, at the local level that have decided that they want you effectively pass the buck, leverage whatever influence they have to blame the other side and not roll up their sleeves and do the due diligence on behalf of the good people.

CAMEROTA: Nick?

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Well, let me just say this. There are five justices that were put on the Supreme Court for one purpose and one purpose only, and that was to overrule Roe versus Wade. That was their job. They accomplished that job.

Now, they're in a bind. They've got this case involving this pill that is approved by the FDA. It's been around for 23 years. No one has ever raised anything about this before the district court that basically put this on hold is a guy who is totally anti-abortion, has -- I don't know if he's conservative, liberal or whatever, but he's definitely anti-abortion.

Then it goes up to the Fifth Circuit. And, of course, they take off the order, the restraining order, but they still say you can't send it through the mail. I mean, how crazy can you get? You get all your medications to the mail. The only thing you don't get through a mail these days is a heart operation. I mean, you just get all your medications through the mail.

And now it's up to the Supreme Court where all of these the five justices who overruled what Roe versus Wade, all of whom are anti- abortion, are now stuck in a dilemma. What do they do? Two of them have written opinions where they say the FDA's expertise is by far the best out there and we should trust them.

CAMEROTA: So, doesn't that tell you that they will keep this?

AKERMAN: I think so. I think that's what's going to happen.

CAMEROTA: They're going to keep the FDA approval of this abortion medication?

AKERMAN: Just to show that they had at least some kind of basis to overrule Roe versus Wade and to at least say that there are conservative reasons for doing it because there was no right for abortion in the Constitution, that's why they did it, but they're going to go along with the FDA.

CAMEROTA: If they didn't, Jessica, and they blocked access to this, I keep reading about how it has also some implications for other medication, important medicines.

JESSICA WASHINGTON, SENIOR REPORTER, THE ROOT: Certainly, no. I mean, this could have a lot of damaging effects on other types of medication, their medical uses this is used for. I mean, like everyone here has said, you know, this is something that has been on the market for 23 years. It is incredibly safe. It is safer than Tylenol. This is a medication that does have other uses. But also, I mean, people need to be able to access if they want to have self-medicated abortions. It's not 100 percent necessary, but it is helpful in that process. And one thing I do want to mention is, as we're talking about this in the media, I do want to be careful not to make it sound like where if the Supreme Court goes the other way, we're about to have abortion access completely illegal in the United States. I think sometimes when we talk about abortion access, we talk about kind of Roe v. Wade, we have a tendency to scare people into thinking that abortion is completely illegal. I've heard that from multiple people on the ground that that was something that happened in the wake of the leaked draft opinion, and that can be really damaging as well.

CAMEROTA: But to your point is that if it were to go this way and if they were to block access, there would still be states where you can get this medication?

WASHINGTON: Not -- so, it's kind of complicated. It's a little unclear exactly where we are legally with which states who would be able to access it because there are just so many different court cases going on right now. I think Jay might know.

MICHAELSON: Yes. I want to like sort of warmly disagree actually. I think this is really different from Dobbs, right? So, arguably, from a sort of conservative jurisprudential point of view, one could argue that that Dobbs and overturning Roe versus Wade was allowing states to have different regimes and we could have different rules in different states, but this is taking a federally approved medication off the market completely.

This is not allowing states to do their own thing. This is saying not -- and this is not -- again, this is not about the Constitution having or not having a right to privacy within it. This is just judicial activism. And this is exactly what conservatives decried liberal judges and justices for doing for decades. And now this is about to happen.

I want to suggest, though, I think this is a huge cell phone from the conservative wing of the Republican Party. Most Americans are not on board with this radical agenda. And I think that's also true on voting rights and also on some other issues, also on guns, that we're seeing the results of a very concerted effort, you know, just exactly what Nick said, to put justices on the court to overturn Roe versus Wade, and that is having consequences that are really going to have political ramifications in the next election.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Very quickly, we have to talk about the news about Clarence Thomas. So, as you'll remember, last week, we found out that he had been accepting for two decades these luxury trips from a Republican mega donor.

[22:10:00]

He was going on a super yacht. He was going on a private plane. Some of these trips could cost half a million if he had paid for them. Now, today, again, according to ProPublica, we find out that he's sold three properties in Savannah, Georgia, to Harlan Crow, same mega donor, for $133,000, you know, accepted cash for it, and now Harlan Crow pays the property tax on it, which is what Clarence Thomas had been paying. So, why is he doing this? What is he thinking, Joe?

PINION: Look, I think that we have to be very careful here about basically starting to cherry-pick the personal dealings of Supreme Court justices. I think that at the end of the day, the optics are terrible here, so we have to acknowledge that.

CAMEROTA: Well, it's about disclosure. I mean, you're right, he has personal dealings, and that's why he didn't disclose it.

PINION: Well, look, I think there are many people who would say that the lack of disclosure is the troubling part of this. I'm going to give Clarence Thomas the benefit of the doubt the same way I think that we should give all the people that we have entrusted to sit on the highest court in the land the benefit of the doubt that somehow that his vote is not for sale to the tune of $133,000 minus the property taxes or that somehow, you know, I've nice drink with an umbrella in it is going to be the difference between him --

CAMEROTA: Not a mega yacht.

MICHAELSON: So, there is no other justice that we know of in history that has this record of misconduct. I mean --

PINION: First of all, you've already labeled this misconduct, so I just think again we haven't actually had the full --

MICHAELSON: Or conduct. We don't know of any justice in history that has accepted --

AKERMAN: It's a total misconduct. It was against the law, for starters.

CAMEROTA: Is it against the law or is it just unethical.

AKERMAN: It's not only unethical, it's against the law. It's against the law not to report this as he should have. And not only did he sell this property for values that look like they're higher than market value, he has his mother living in one of the properties after the buddy sold the other two pieces of property to develop those to make more money and to fix up the neighborhood for Clarence Thomas' wife and then on top -- mother, and then on top of it, he's fixing up the house. He's completely renovating the house, put more money into it. As far as we know, she's not paying a dime in rent. And this is somebody that is tied in with a lot of political donors trying to influence what the Supreme Court is doing.

I mean, this is an absolute outrage, and people should be outraged about it. And he should do the same thing that Abe Fortas did back in the '60s, resigned from the U.S. Supreme Court. I mean, he's actually done things worse than Abe Fortas.

PINION: Case closed. Lock him up.

CAMEROTA: No. I have to go, but, basically, there is an investigation -- PINION: I think that there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. As I said, the optics are terrible with this, but I think at the end of the day, if we're just going to go tabula rasa, we need to have a clean House in D.C., lack of ethics need to be put to the side, great. But if you're going to start with Clarence Thomas, I want to know who you're moving to next.

MICHAELSON: Well, one phrase where you and I might agree is that this is really shame on all of us for not having a code of conduct for the Supreme Court that we have for other courts, other federal courts. It is ridiculous that there are not clear rules that govern the Supreme Court justices, and that is on all of us. That is on the fact that the court hasn't set them, Congress hasn't asked them, to force them to set them and this is lawless court.

AKERMAN: We do have a rule. We have a rule of law that he violated and this is common sense. I mean, where is this guy coming from?

PINION: Common sense about insider trading in D.C., that's a different day for a different --

CAMEROTA: Okay. But we're talking about Supreme Court justices. That's the part of it.

WASHINGTON: Shouldn't we be holding them to a higher standard. I think that's the point. You're saying they're in the highest --

PINION: I would agree everyone that sits on that court should be held to a higher standard. I would a greet that everyone that takes an oath and raise their hand on behalf of a grateful nation should be held to a higher nation. I think the reason why you have so much pushback from Republicans, like myself, who agree that the optics are terrible is because people are selectively deciding when they want to be outraged by the lack of ethics that are exhibited every single day down in that place called Washington D.C.

MICHAELSON: Still, I can't select another Supreme Court justice, name them, liberal conservative, anywhere.

AKERMAN: Had only one, who is Abe Fortas, Justice Fortas.

MICHAELSON: And his conduct is much less severe. This blows them out of the water.

So, I just I can't accept that this is selecting thing. There's no one else to select.

AKERMAN: Abe Fortas is a Democrat to the tenth degree.

CAMEROTA: Thank you all very much for that. Stick around, everybody. In the wake of the most recent mass shooting in this country, the gun that a 25-year-old man used to kill five of his colleagues at that Louisville bank is required in that state to be auctioned off, for sale, to be used again. Who would want that gun and what does it say about our gun laws? We're going to take that up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:15:00]

CAMEROTA: The NRA kicking off its annual convention in Indianapolis today, just four days after that mass shooting at a Louisville bank that killed five people, just three weeks after the mass shooting at a Nashville school that killed six people, including three children. Former Vice President Mike Pence spoke today and offered this suggestion for stopping mass shootings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: While the assailants in the most recent attacks were taken out by law enforcement on the scene, too many mass shooters languish in prison for years. And, men and women, I don't have to tell you justice delayed is justice denied.

I believe the time has come to institute a federal death penalty statute with accelerated appeal to ensure that those who engage in mass shootings face execution in months, not years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Our panel is back and Patrick McEnroe joins us now. Patrick, I guess I'm confused by his suggestion. We're trying to stop mass shootings before they happen, not a speedy execution for the shooter after they happen, right?

PATRICK MCENROE, FORMER PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: This hardly means is a topic that we should be joking about, but aren't most of these mass shooters dead before they get out of there. I mean --

CAMEROTA: And some are.

MCENROE: I mean, this is just asinine to make this the point. Was that before? I guess that was before he got booed and then after he got booed as well. He gets apparently get booed both at the beginning and the end.

CAMEROTA: But not for this.

MCENROE: Not for this. I understand that. But it seems it's so ludicrous to have to bring this up this type of thing up in a situation where this is so serious and all these shootings continue to happen.

[22:20:11]

And I guess the NRA liked it. They cheered for it. And that's related to my point earlier this week about these mass shootings. The people that have guns want guns more than anything else. And they're going to stop at nothing to make sure they can continue to have whatever they want,

CAMEROTA: The other thing, Joe, that I found confusing about what Vice President Pence said was it's the Republicans who say this is about mental health. This isn't about guns. It's about the people. It's about mental health, and we need to fix that. So, he's suggesting a speedy execution for the mentally ill mass shooters?

PINION: Well, look, I think, respectfully, you're giving the vice president a little bit too much credit. I think that it was an applause line that was inserted to make sure that there would be something for people to talk about in between the booing. Respectfully, again, we were talking about what happens with gun owners in general. Look, if you're of the opinion that we should get rid of the guns, get rid of the AR-15s and that is a solution, then there is nothing anyone could have said on this stage except for that. There's nothing anyone who believes in the Second Amendment can do other than showing up at their local precinct and surrendering their guns.

But I think if we're going to have an honest conversation about what is required to end gun violence, what is required to end children being shot in math class, it was a missed opportunity for Republicans to put forth a robust plan about what are the best practices that exist to ensure that we don't have the children of heads and state being killed, that we don't have the children of dignitaries being killed because, again, I will remind people, the children of power the children are privileged or not finding themselves gunned down on a regular basis, like the rest of the children.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, I guess we used to be to say that, but, you know, in the latest ones, in Nashville and in Louisville, the friends of the governors.

PINION: I mean, I'm talking about people who are people living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I'm talking about the people who are the children of dignitaries. I'm talking about the people --

CAMEROTA: Okay, Joe. But I'm saying that suddenly it's touching so many different walks of life that the governors lost both people close to them in the latest mass shooting. So, leaders are having --

PINION: I think that talking about what are the best practices for gun violence is very different from skewing (ph) or trying to push aside the very real reality of the gun violence is touching us all.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MICHAELSON: I mean, I also would like to keep the focus on the NRA's bizarre fetishization of an extremist position that's way far to the right of what the Supreme Court said in D.C. versus Heller, where they expressly said when they did find the Second Amendment right for individual carry, possession of guns, which I think also was not founded in constitutional law, but they did find that, they said specifically that automatic and semiautomatic weapons could be regulated almost certainly within the bounds of the Second Amendment.

Now, the term Second Amendment seems to cover everything. And that's not what the Supreme Court has held. There is a lot of space, there's a lot of daylight within the Supreme Court's precedent. We just talked about the Supreme Court in the last segment. This is not a liberal court. These aren't liberal precedents to take some of the most dangerous guns out of the hands of the most dangerous people.

CAMEROTA: Here's another interesting thing that has happened. In Kentucky, it turns out that there is this law that requires guns used in crimes to be auctioned off, so not melted down, not destroyed, auctioned off. There's a word for this called murderabilia. People buy tokens of high-profile crimes. We saw this in the Murdaugh murder in South Carolina. People wanted a piece of that.

And so the mayor in Louisville is trying to get this law changed. There are eight states that ban sales of murderabilia, but not Kentucky, I mean, not most states right there. So, that seems like something that the mayor would like to change. But there is a law preventing him from changing that.

WASHINGTON: Yes. I mean, I think it's horrifying, the idea that you would have these guns that were used in mass shootings and that people would then go and buy them. I mean, it just feels so icky. But I'm not surprised that there are people out there who would do that because we've seen this before. I mean, I think about the Trayvon Martin, the gun used to kill Trayvon Martin. That sold for a quarter million dollars. Someone knew that that gun was used to shoot, you know, this young man, this child, and they went ahead and they bought that.

So, I do think, I mean, this is horrifying, it feels so icky. And yet what's terrifying is that there are people out there who would buy it.

MCENROE: How could that possibly happen? I mean, you know, people like to watch crime shows and they like to watch stories about killers and so on, because, you know, it makes for an interesting story. But the idea that we're allowing, meaning we, like our government actually allowing this to happen? That's insane. You should be -- we talk about the guns all the time. Common sense gun laws, right? How about common sense?

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, that's what the -- go ahead, Joe.

PINION: Look, I'm really a cheery guy. I don't want to be the contrarian all --

MCENROE: It's Friday night.

PINION: It's Friday. It's 90 degrees outside. But let's be very clear, right?

[22:25:00]

I would agree with you, right, that we have this unintended consequence here where we have what I would call the equivalent of the postcards at the lynchings that have now been proliferated here in modern day society.

But the reality is if you look at that map, places like New York, places like Illinois, they don't have of these laws on the book that prevent this murderabilia from being sold, because the average person, your average lawmaker never thought that you would even need to put a law like that on the books. So, I just think at some point, maybe it's not here can vilify the individuals who like guns, maybe it's just here to say there is a sickness in society that we need new laws to address as it relates to these people who want to have some attachments to the sick and grotesque. And that is something that we should all be able to get around and agree on, not trying to pit ourselves against one another once again when it's really unnecessary.

CAMEROTA: That did sound very cheery, Joe. Thank you. Thank you for that. We'll end on that note.

Everyone stay with me. After a string of high-profile concussions, the NFL is introducing what it believes may be a solution to protecting quarterbacks. But it raises a lot of questions. And we'll ask the panel would they still let their kids play football knowing what we know today. We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:00]

CAMEROTA: The NFL announcing new quarterback specific helmets to combat the league's concussion problem. It apparently improves them by 7 percent. My panel is back. Okay, so let's talk about concussions in the NFL and this helmet is, first, quarterback specifically, because it is a helmet that works best on when the impact is with the ground instead of another player's helmet, so that's why it works for a quarterback.

But let me just quickly read because I didn't know about, so CTE is the brain injury that happens, but I didn't know all the characteristics of it. So let me just read it for you in case you don't. So, it starts after repeated hits to the head, it's believed. It leads to degeneration of brain tissue and build up of tau, T-A-U, that's a brain protein.

The symptoms of CTE can be memory loss, confusion, impulse control problems, aggression, depression, impaired judgment, suicidality. As the professional athlete at the table, you're --

PATRICK MCENROE, FORMER PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: A slightly different sport.

CAMEROTA: Okay.

MCENROE: Tennis, which is maybe mentally can be a little difficult, but no, in all seriousness. I mean, I'm a big fan of football. I love the -- I love watching football. If I had sons, which I don't, I have three daughters, but if I had, no, they could play football, too, but I don't want to. I would -- I would veer them away from playing football.

CAMEROTA: With what you know now. In fact, my parents when my older brother who, you know, ended up being number one in the world as a tennis player, he was a great athlete in every sport, and he was a quarterback. And when he was 11 or 12, my parents said they knew he was -- could be a great tennis player.

And they put him into soccer. So, we played a lot of soccer growing up. Now, again --

CAMEROTA: Because they were afraid of him being injured?

MCENROE: Injured, absolutely. So, this -- but again for the people that play it, of which I know many people. I know a lot of pros; I know a lot of college guys that play organized high-level football. Most of them are okay. Most of them are okay.

This is -- and that to doing this helmet specifically for -- they've done enough to protect the quarterback already in the NFL. And that's one of the other things that the purest are upset about in the game. They've made it too protective of the quarterback. So, it's a violent game. And not surprisingly, it's by far the most popular game in this country. I wonder why they're connected.

CAMEROTA: And Joe, you used to play football.

JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I did, you know. I had lots of Pop Warner and high school football and college football. But look, I think there's a lot of merit in that argument. I think if I were having children today, my mother is probably saying hurry up. That I would probably not want my five and six and seven- and eight-year old's running around like bobble heads, running into each other school.

CAMEROTA: (Inaudible).

PINION: Look, I think that I love the game. I think there are a lot of people who love the game. I think that there are a lot of precautions that we need to be taken and better protocols for how do we manage those injuries. I think it is inevitable that if you play the game of football at a high level, you're going to have some type of brain injury. That's just I think the inevitable reality of where we are.

What is the extent of that brain injury? That comes down to the science that surrounds that. But I think ultimately, at the end of the day, this notion that we're going to ban the game of football, I think isn't realistic, but we should have -- I mean, 7 percent increase on not having concussions, I would take those odds, and I think that's a step in the right direction.

CAMEROTA: One of the reasons that we're thinking, at least I'm thinking a lot about CTE this week is because the parents, the family of the shooter in the Louisville bank mass shooting wants his brain examined for CTE because he apparently, according to them, had three significant, as they call it, concussions in his, I guess, high school days.

He was actually, believe it or not, called in high school Mr. Concussion by his classmates. And he wore a soft helmet, but he had to -- when he played basketball in high school because people knew that he had so many concussions. And so, they're wondering if there's, I mean, now that we know that one of the symptoms is aggression, depression, suicidality, they're wondering about the connection.

JESSICA WASHINGTON, SENIOR REPORTER, THE ROOT: Yeah. No, that's understandable that they would be concerned about that connection. I mean, we certainly have seen this with professional athletes. I think it's been talked about a lot more. But the idea that it could be, even people at this younger level, even in high school, I think that's particularly concerning.

And you know, I've decided that I'm not going to come out against football tonight, but I mean, we do have to look at this. I mean, if people are coming out with these traumatic brain injuries, if they're changing their personalities, if potentially people are, you know, being aggressive afterwards, even to that level of this kind of shooting and I mean, obviously, there would have to be more underlying that most likely. But it is pretty terrifying and it does kind of make you think about the sport.

CAMEROTA: Jay?

JAY MICHAELSON, COLUMNIST, ROLLING STONE: Yeah. You know, I think there have been violent sports as long as there's been human civilization, and this is part of what it is to be human for some percentage of human beings.

[22:35:00]

I'm probably not in that percentage as the gay kid who definitely didn't play football in high school, but I think this is part of human nature, and for me that that requires us to think about what society we can try to build that makes sure, for example, that there aren't power differentials in who gets to play and who doesn't get to play and who gets access to the equipment, who doesn't get access.

We need to make sure that there's not -- that that doesn't track lines of oppression that are already in our society, that we do everything that we can to enable people to have the information so that they can make a choice, they can make a decision. You know, I'm pretty privileged myself and I feel like I have a lot of access to the information to make a decision as a parent.

And a lot of folks don't have that. So, for me, it's more about recognizing this reality that this is something that human -- that many human beings really enjoy and how do we create a just society around that?

CAMEROTA: Thank you all very much. All right, new research shows that nearly a third of women now make as much or more than their husbands, but the division of labor at home is far from equal. Why? We discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

(VIDEO PLAYING)

UNKNOWN: Listen, holding down a job is a lot more difficult than lying around the house all day long.

UNKNOWN: Lying around the -- is that all you think we do?

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

UNKNOWN: Let's be fair, Rick. Every once in a while, they get up and play canasta.

(LAUGHTER)

UNKNOWN: Who do you think does the housework?

UNKNOWN: And who do you think cooks all the meals?

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

UNKNOWN: Oh, anybody can cook and do the housework.

UNKNOWN: I just like to see you two try it for a week.

UNKNOWN: Okay, we will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And hilarity ensued. I can tell you after that. So, we've come a long way since a woman in the workplace was a joke. A new Pew research study finds that in roughly a third of opposite sex marriages, husbands and wives make roughly the same amount of money. That's up from 11 percent in 1972. Despite the shared financial contributions, women still take on more of the household work. My panel is back with me now. What's up with that Patrick?

MCENROE: I'm not -- how when I get to stay out of trouble on this one? First of all, never a bad idea to show some "I Love Lucy."

CAMEROTA: I know. It's so good.

MCENROE: Twenty-five year I'll be married later this year, so thank you.

CAMEROTA: Congratulations.

MCENROE: I have twins like you, all girls. My wife likes to say to me, she's a very busy working singer, actress, writer, so she's running around. I'm running around. She likes to say when we're trying to get things straight, who's making dinner? Who's getting it my wife says to me. We need a wife. Good (inaudible), we need a wife.

CAMEROTA: It's true.

MCENROE: But, look, I get up every morning make my girls breakfast. We try to -- there's probably a few more things that she does that I don't do. There's probably a couple more things I tried to do, but it's about time is what I would say. It's about time.

WASHIINGTON: Yeah. I mean, things have changed. MCENROE: Yes.

WASHINGTON: But as we've said --

MCENROE: Things have changed, but some things are still ingrained in certain people I'd say.

CAMEROTA: Jessica, you're cohabitating, living in sin.

(LAUGHTER)

WASHINGTON: True.

CAMEROTA: And so, how is it divvied up? How are the chores divvied up?

WASHINGTON: Yeah. I think we do it pretty evenly. I mean, he's -- I mean, I'm very busy, but he's even busier than me. But, I mean, we do it evenly. I do the -- most of the cooking. He cleans up after that. He does most of the laundry. We share deep cleaning on the weekend.

I mean, the thing is just doing things when you have time. So, because he's slightly busier, he's going to do laundry because that's something you can do and then do your work and kind of, you know, go about your business.

CAMEROTA: But this reminds me. I think that your generation is doing it differently. I mean, obviously, in each generation, like does that -- that "I Love Lucy" thing obviously, it seems totally foreign, I'm sure to you. But each generation has made some progress. And I think yours is obviously the furthest along.

WASHINGTON: Yeah. I mean, I hope so. I think that that's definitely true. I mean, I definitely have seen my own parents had a very equal marriage. Both of them worked. My boyfriend's parents the same thing. You know, his dad is actually the main cook in the household. But I mean, I do think we're getting kind of even closer to equality.

You know, it can still be hard to get out of that mindset of, oh, I have to make sure the home is clean and that's my responsibility. But I know that I have an equal partner and so that -- it just makes it so much easier.

CAMEROTA: Thoughts?

MICHAELSON: Well, I'm just a spectator to this like opposite sex marriage scenario, so you guys all figured and we all got the memo, you know, whenever.

CAMEROTA: So, everything is completely even in your household?

MICHAELSON: I mean, it's really varied. You know, my daughter is five years old, so obviously before it was pretty, like, straight down the line, and now my husband does more of -- more of the unpaid housework. And you know, we can certainly talk about sort of the injustices around that and what work our society values and what work that doesn't. I remember when my mother who was a feminist, you know, back in the 1970's and the 80's, people would say, oh, you don't work. She's like, don't tell me I don't work. You know, I'm raising this child. I'm doing this house and that -- that is work of value.

And so, yeah, it's strange to me. I feel sort of sad for folks who don't at least do some of everything and taste some of what it's like. And you know, I don't know if I really would have said that when my daughter was still in diapers, but looking back on it. I'm really glad that I had that experience to be, you know, to be that part of -- a part of her life.

CAMEROTA: Joe.

PINION: Look, I think the more things change, the more things stay the same. I think that we have long undervalued the work of the second shift, the tending to the home, the raising of the children. And I think to your point, things are changing. The nature of work is evolving. And I think that this next generation is finding out that next, I guess, common equilibrium, whatever that's going to be.

But I think also don't throw out, you know, the baby with the bathwater so to speak. There's a lot of good things that happened before we can celebrate the progress that has been made to make sure that we get close to women being paid equal -- equal pay for equal work, but we can also ensure that we can understand the value of the time and the effort that is spent in the home making sure we leave the world with good children.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Excellent. Thank you all very much for that. And we'll be right back.

[22:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: This Sunday night, CNN launches an exciting new series called "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper." Each week we'll explore one major story in depth for the entire hour. In Sunday's first episode, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh and his team trek alongside thousands of migrants as they make the dangerous journey on foot from the tip of South America into Central America, desperate to seek asylum in the United States. Nick joins us with a preview. Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, it's really the volume of people doing this that is so staggering.

[22:49:59]

There was a record year last year of a quarter of a million, but only the first quarter of this year there's seven times as many who tried it the year before. So, they're on track at the same rate to get over a million people making this track this year, and so many of them are children, already record-breaking numbers this year. Here is part of what we saw. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH (voice-over): The football shirts are porters, each numbered, charging to carry bags, even children uphill.

UNKNOWN (TEXT): Whoever feels tired, I'm here.

WALSH (voice-over): But it doesn't always work out. Wilson is separated from his parents. Their porter raced off ahead.

TEXT: My name is Nick. Nice to meet you. You are here all by yourself? Yes. You're waiting for your parents? Where are they?

UNKNOWN (TEXT): They are behind.

WALSH: Are you going to America? Where are you going?

UNKNOWN (TEXT): To Miami.

WALSH: What do you like about Miami?

UNKNOWN: Daddy is going to build a swimming pool.

WALSH: He will build a pool for you? What do you want to be when you grow up?

UNKNOWN: To work.

WALSH: What work?

UNKOWN: School work. And my sister has chosen nurse.

WALSH (voice-over): Nearly a thousand unaccompanied children were found on the route last year the U.N. have said.

(On camera): Now, that little boy, Wilson, was reunited joyfully with his parents a couple of days later, something we thought frankly was impossible, given how disparate people can be on a track as hazardous as this. But they face extraordinary perils, not only those of the jungle, the dehydration, exhaustion, lack of food they carry themselves, the snakes. Also, man-made modus occurs on this track.

We found three bodies with signs of a violent death. Allegations of sexual assault, robbery as well. It's exceptionally perilous. And so, you have to ask yourself, Alisyn, what really causes people to put their families, themselves even, through risks like this. And these are the countries that they hail from that they're fleeing; Haiti Venezuela, Ecuador, China, the top four nationalities so far this year seen on the trek.

Countries in collapse. That fuels people to undertake these extraordinary risks. But you see something kind of beautiful too on this trek. Yes, it's a cynical operation of voluntary trafficking operation, run by a cartel, milking people for their cash as they move. But when they meet strangers in peril, they seem to be bound by some sort of glue of the ordeal that they're going through, and they help each other, often just carrying sick children for days to be sure that nobody is left behind.

That's something quite wonderful to watch despite how depressing the motivation why people are making this trek and the scenes that they're enduring through that particular journey are. There's something incredible about watching them pull each other through. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Nick, what an incredible window you're giving us into that journey. Thank you. Be sure to watch Nick embark on that journey for the very first episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper." It's Sunday night at 8:00 only on CNN.

All right, Texas Governor Greg Abbott is pushing to pardon a man convicted of killing a Black Lives Matter protester. But now newly revealed racist and violent social media posts by the killer could change the thinking. In just a moment, we're going to hear from the murder victim's fiance and mother.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:55:00]

CAMEROTA: Newly unsealed court documents in Texas raised questions about the influence of right-wing media on our criminal justice system. Governor Greg Abbott announced plans to pardon a convicted murderer just one day after the conviction. The documents just released show that convicted murderer, Daniel Perry, compared the Black Lives Matter movement to a zoo full of monkeys and talked about his desire to kill someone, and that's exactly what a jury found him guilty of in the murder of 28-year-old Garrett Foster at a Black Lives Matter protest in 2020.

You'll hear from Garrett Foster's mother and longtime partner in just a moment, and we'll dig into what could be motivating Governor Greg Abbott to take on this case. But let's begin with CNN's Ed Lavandera on the shooter's vile messages, which were not shown to the jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Black Lives Matter protests erupted around the country in the summer of 2020, newly released court documents reveal Daniel Perry intensely watched the chaos, quickly becoming angry. In a social media post, he described the protesters as a "zoo full of monkeys."

The unsealed documents include 76 pages of social media postings and text messages. Most of these details were not shown to the jury that convicted the army sergeant of murdering protester Garrett Foster and raises new questions about why Texas Governor Greg Abbott is rushing a push to pardon this convicted murderer.

Foster's family and longtime partner have called the governor's call for a pardon disgusting.

UNKNOWN: This has been a complete nightmare.

[22:59:57] LAVANDERA (voice-over): The court documents show Perry talked about killing people and shared racist memes and comments on social media, including a 2019 message saying, "Too bad we can't get paid for hunting Muslims in Europe."