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CNN Tonight

The White Homeowner Accused Of Shooting A Black Teen Who Rang His Doorbell Turns Himself In To Face Criminal Charges; Fox Will Pay $787.5 Million To Dominion; Gun Violence In America; MillerKnoll CEO Admonish Employees About Bonuses; Damar Hamlin Gets Cleared To Play. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 18, 2023 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Security breach at the White House today, the mischievous perp was nabbed but the Secret Service let him go. Why? Well, it was a toddler who crawled through the fence, squeezed through the bars on the north side of the people's house, prompting a swift response from the U.S. Secret service. Agents picked up the tiny trespassing tourists and quickly reunited him with his parents. A Secret Service spokesman said they were going to wait until he learned to talk to question him.

Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I'll be back here tomorrow night. CNN TONIGHT with Alisyn Camerota starts now. Hey, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That's an adorable story, Pam. Yes, it is. We'll cover it a little bit, too. Thanks so much.

BROWN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.

What does it mean when a black 16-year-old cannot ring the wrong door bell, without getting shot, or a white 20-year-old cannot make a wrong turn into someone's driveway without getting shot? Or our Second Amendment rights outweighing many of our other rights? Our panel has an interesting take on that.

Plus, Fox has to cough up $787 million for their outrageous lies about Dominion Voting Systems. But you know who will never know about this? Fox viewers, because the settlement does not include an on-air apology or correction. The network put out a statement saying they, quote, acknowledge the court's findings about certain claims about Dominion to be false. We'll see if our guests think that spells true accountability.

And the CEO of the high-end office furniture company delivered a pep talk to employees that took quite a turn when employees asked about their lack of bonuses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDI OWEN, CEO, MILLERKNOLL: I had an old boss who said to me one time you can visit pity city, but you can't live there. So, people, leave pity city, let's get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: We'll talk more about that. I'm here with my panel, the always unfiltered S.E. Cupp, L.A. Times Op-Ed Columnist L.Z. Granderson, former Senate candidate Joe Pinion and former Congressman Mondaire Jones.

But we begin with the wrong doorbell shooting of 16-year-old Ralph Yarl.

I want to bring in Lee Merritt, an attorney for Ralph Yarl's family. Mr. Merritt, thank you so much for being here. We understand that the family met with prosecutors today. What did they learn?

LEE MERRITT, ATTORNEY FOR RALPH YARL'S FAMILY: Prosecutors let us know about the charges that they went forward with two charges, one having to do with the weapon that was used in the homicide, the other being a felony aggravated assault. Together, they have the potential of leading -- if convicted, leading to a life imprisonment sentence.

The family really wants to know why not an attempted murder charge, and so we had a chance to talk to the prosecutor about that.

CAMEROTA: And what's the answer?

MERRITT: Well, it has everything to do with the Missouri statute for attempted murder. Aggravated assault -- first-degree aggravated assault carries forth a stiffer penalty and with less of a legal burden than the attempted murder charge in the state of Missouri.

CAMEROTA: I see. So, in other words, he is charged with assault in the first-degree, and you're saying that prosecutors believe that that would actually carry a stiffer penalty than attempted murder?

MERRITT: That's correct.

CAMEROTA: Okay. I think all of us were very relieved and surprised to hear that Ralph Yarl was released from the hospital after being shot in the head. I know that you all have talked about the -- how traumatic, of course, all of this is for him and the long road ahead emotionally for him. But physically, how is he doing? What is his recovery going to look like from a head injury like this?

MERRITT: To really explain how he's doing physically, people have to understand the true nature of his injuries. It seems that maybe the shots missed or something like that. The truth is he was shot at point blank range from less than five feet away head on and was struck in his temple. The bullet entered his skull and fragmented near the frontal, upper left lobe of his brain.

Thursday night, doctors were scraping off bullet fragments off his brain. Saturday, he was released from the hospital. The fact that I spoke with him today and sat down and had a conversation with him, Vice President Kamala Harris had a conversation with him today, where he was fluid, where he was amicable, where he was funny, consistent with his character, is truly a miracle. And he has a prognosis of a full recovery, minus scarring and the long-term, maybe CTE, and post- traumatic brain injury symptoms, his prognosis is very, very positive.

CAMEROTA: That is a miracle. It's astonishing how quickly he was able to be released from the hospital.

So, as you know, the suspect said that he shot Ralph because he was, quote, scared to death because Ralph was so big.

[22:05:02]

We were showing pictures there of Ralph. We see him with his clarinet. He looks -- in the still photos, he looks like, you know, a young teenager. Can you just help set the record straight? How tall is Ralph?

MERRITT: Yes. Well, what Andrew Lester was referring to in terms of the size and how fearful he was of Ralph is a euphemism about blackness. Ralph is 5'8". Ralph is 140 pounds. He is the least imposing kid that I've come across. He's a 16-year-old musician. He is not known for his physical prowess.

The truth is when Mr. Lester looked out and saw a black child, he decided like this common in America that his skin alone was a weapon, that blackness was the threat. And that's the reason we're having racial conversation, racial violence conversations, that's the reason that we're treating this case as a case of racial violence.

CAMEROTA: Do you have a satisfactory answer of why it took so long to arrest the suspect here after he was talked to by police for two to three hours on the night of the shooting?

MERRITT: I don't have a satisfactory answer. This prosecutor and law enforcement has given this family being same answer that they had given the general public, which is misinformation. First, they said that they didn't have a statement from Ralph in time. Well, we know now that they received a statement from Ralph, a full recorded statement with two officers present, the day after his he was he was shot, so Friday.

If they would have followed Kansas, Missouri law and held the suspect for at least 24 hours as they gather statement, he would have never been released. They released him for reasons that they haven't described and we only have were sort of left to our imagination to guess why they treated him less severely than they would someone else who had shot an unarmed 16-year-old kid on their porch.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Lee Merritt, thank you for your time tonight. Please bring us all developments in this case.

MERRITT: Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Okay. We have a lot to discuss with my panel.

L.Z., I want to start with you because you've been so, I think, openhearted about trying to see this through the lens of an 84-year- old white mid-western man at 10:00 at night being roused from sleep and coming to his door and the implicit bias that he brings to that door and I -- we take his word for it that he was scared to death, though we now know that Ralph was 5'8" and 140 pounds. And so how do we explain that? He saw something different in his -- through his lens.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: First, and I just want to give thanks to God for that young man's quick, quick healing. I mean, could you actually go to somewhere else right now? I'm a little emotional because the idea -- I just hung out with my son before I came here? And --

CAMEROTA: how old is your son.

GRANDERSON: He's 26 now. But when I see that young man, I can't help but think of my own kid, you know, drama kid, and kid, he was on track, my son was in track, so all these thoughts are going through my head. And the idea that, you know, he was sent to pick up his kids, his brother.

And this country is under siege, you know? We're under siege. There're so many freaking guns and there're so many different avenues in which human error and anger can grab a gun and ruin someone's life. And the fact that we continue to have these elected officials pretend as if a law that was written before bullets were created should still hold value today is just baffling to me.

And I don't know anyone could listen to this story about this kid and not -- you know, I want to be grateful to God he's alive. But just the physical recovery, yes, but how do you recover from that mentally, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: No. His family has been talking about that, that that he will have a scar on his forehead that were remind him every time he looks in the mirror of what happened in his life where no questions asked, there was no conversation exchanged between them because this homeowner saw something that he -- that terrified him.

GRANDERSON: He's soft-skinned, right? He's a -- I mean, I don't want to speak for anyone else so I'll just speak for me. You know when someone sees you and the energy shifts. You can feel it. And the only good thing I can think of that's come out of all of this ugliness since George Floyd's murder is that more American can stop thinking black people are crazy when we point these things out, right? Like there's now documented visual evidence so that we don't have to go on and on and on writing book, singing songs, creating movies, doing all of these things creatively to try to get his message across there. You finally see it in real-time. We're not f'in crazy.

[22:10:00]

CAMEROTA: Joe? JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I share the sentiments that we should be grateful that this young man is still alive. I find myself being terrified every time I see Brother Merritt or Brother Benjamin Crump on television, because I know something awful has happened.

I think, again, obviously people want to talk about the guns. I don't want to talk about the guns. It has very little to do with the letter next to my name on a voter registration card because I was born a black man in this country, my father was born in black man in this country and his father before him was born a black man in this country. And whether you're talking about when he was born or when I was born or that young man today, we still have blackness rendering you as a member of a suspect class.

That is why he found himself with bullet fragments on his brain. It is why we had to mere Tamir Elijah Rice who was shot in broad daylight holding a toy gun in a public park in an open carry state, shot within less than a few seconds because the color of his skin made him a member of a suspect class. It's why John Crawford was shot dead holding a BB gun in a Walmart that sold real guns in the toy aisle because of the fact that the color of his skin made him a member of a suspect class.

So, yes, of course, as always, we end up in a left versus right conversation. But this conversation today, at least for one day, should be about the fact that we have to have a stark conversation with America that even today, for all the progress that we have made, there are certain times when certain people see the color of your skin and nothing else, that young man was 100 pounds wet.

You know, you go back down to Florida, where you end up with a boy with a pack of Skittles in this pocket who also was about 100 dripping wet, it wasn't the hoodie that made him a threat to George Zimmerman, it was the color of his skin. And at some point, we should just be able to have that conversation, frankly, and openly without us diving down these political rabbit holes that divide us at a time we should all be able to get behind something that's quite clear and historical and continues to bring so much pain to so many people.

CAMEROTA: Congressman?

MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I don't think the guy who shot Ralph Yarl deserves the benefit of the doubt here, and maybe we'll find out more information in the coming days about, you know, what his views are on race.

It is really difficult for me to imagine for the reasons already stated that that Ralph could pose reasonably to anyone some kind of threat and I just can't help but be reminded of the times that I have knocked on doors for political purposes, whether to collect signatures and have conversations with people and I will just tell you what Omar Jimenez was saying. Pamela Brown earlier tonight really resonated with me because there are areas in this country and in this state where I will insist on someone white accompanying me even as a candidate for office so that I am not as threatening to the person answering the door in the event that that ends up happening.

And, absolutely, you know, to the other point that Omar made, you know, sort of stepping away from the door after you knock and really retreating all the way down so that you're not even on the porch is something that I routinely do. And it looks weird but this is -- you know, I guess, this is the secret life of black men for people who don't have to really see what we do.

GRANDERSON: But it's not a secret, though.

JONES: Yes.

GRANDERSON: It really isn't. We all know because if you don't step away and give that space, there's a discomfort that registers as well, right? So, it's not a secret, it may not be talked about, but people are cognizant of the fact that when you're in an elevator and someone comes in, and you're by yourself, you know why you're clutching, you know why you're shifting. You know, you may not want to talk about it, you may not want to admit it, but it's hard for me at this point to continue to characterize it as an unknown. It's just --

PINION: And even to that point, I mean, right here in New York City, how soon we forget, I was talking to a producer. I mean, we had a black Harvard educated man who had the police called in for high crime and misdemeanor of trying to watch birds. There was nothing abnormal about people watching birds in Central Park. What was abnormal was the color of his skin being the individual who was watching the birds in Central Park. So, I think --

JONES: And you shouldn't have to have gone to Harvard or look like an honor student in the way that Ralph is, which, frankly, has, I think, from a narrative perspective been to his benefit, but like you could just look like a regular person. And it shouldn't be that the color of your skin poses a threat to anyone.

GRANDERSON: But you don't have to be a regular person. Respectability politics has never benefited black people. It's only put in place so that white people have a bar to move. Respectability politics doesn't work.

PINION: Look, I think just -- I mean, I don't know. I don't want to monopolize you, we haven't even heard from our friend here, but I just think, again, to me, it transcends politics, right? That case of that individual who had the cops called in for watching birds, that person prescribed to a different politics than I did, right?

So, this is not a left versus right. We know racism goes where it finds the most oxygen on any given day and time, but I think, again, we do ourselves a disservice.

[22:15:00]

We view it purely through a political lens. Because I think at the end of the day, through every iteration of this country, when you had more people on the left who are racist, when you have more people on the right who are racist, the common thread is it was black people who found themselves with bullets and fragments and lynchings and all the things that we know come across when people decide that their comfort means more than your liberties and your freedoms.

CAMEROTA: S.E.?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, I think it's very safe to say this case is about race. I think it's also 100 percent about guns. And when you add to it, the girl who drove into the wrong driveway and was also shot --

CAMEROTA: And we will be talking about that soon.

CUPP: For me, taking a 30,000 ft view, which is not a way of deflecting from any of these conversations, so it is not, I just can't believe how little we value life anymore, that you could ask zero questions before shooting someone point blank because he came to the wrong door or someone who drove up to the wrong house is very troubling and I think speaks to our moral bankruptcy that we can sit by, not we, but lawmakers and Americans can sit by and watch these mass shootings target our children in schools and do nothing but play politics where it doesn't belong, or, I mean, you know, on the other side, that for political reasons, we can, you know, released convicted murderers out onto the streets because it makes us look better.

This is terrible. And our sense of honor to humanity is gone, that we are so quick to kill. And then have the weapons readily available to do it, we're in a bad place. We've really lost our way.

CAMEROTA: Agreed. Gentlemen, thanks for that conversation. I really appreciate everything that you've said about that and I appreciate what you're feeling and that you expressed it. Thank you.

We will talk about the woman who made the mistake of pulling into the wrong driveway and pay with her life. But, first, we want to talk about Fox reaching this last-minute settlement with Dominion, just as the trial was set to begin. Fox was forced to pay more than $787 million but who really won and who really lost here? That's next.

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[22:20:00]

CAMEROTA: Fox agrees to pay Dominion Voting Systems a stunning $787 million in damages. This is the largest publicly known defamation suit involving a media company in the U.S. Fox had to acknowledge that certain claims about Dominion were false. So who won here?

I'm back with our panel, also joining us, CNN Media Analyst Sara Fischer. Sara, I know you just spent the day there in the courtroom, thinking that you were going to be seeing the start of a trial and then at the last-minute of the 11th hour -- I mean, past the 11th hour, they decided to settle. So, I know that Dominion says this was a win for them. Do you agree that it was also win on many levels for Fox?

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Well, in some cases, yes, because they're not going to have to publicly apologize on their air and they're not going to have to retract any of their statements or issue any corrections. So, from that regarded to win and the settlement allows their top executives to sort of avoid having to go back to court and testify even further.

Some of the pre-trial hearings were really damning for Fox executives, in particular, Rupert Murdoch. So, from that perspective, it's a win. But I'll tell you where it's a loss. When you settle a case like this for $787 million, you set a precedent for all of the other defamation cases that you are facing that you're willing to pay out huge amounts of sums to avoid going to trial.

Now, this was a $1.6 billion case, Alisyn. They're now facing a $2.7 billion defamation case from Smartmatic, another voting machine system. So, this is going to potentially be the beginning of a long legal battle for Fox. And while the settlement is a short-term victory, in the long-term, it could make it harder if they wished to litigate some of these other defamation suits out.

CAMEROTA: So, Congressman, I think that a lot of Fox critics were hoping for a trial because they were hoping --

JONES: I'll raise my hand for that.

CAMEROTA: -- that Fox was going to have to actually be called to task, they were going to have to explain in an open court under oath why they did this stuff, and now they skirt that.

JONES: And you could even like record them and re-tweet that in perpetuity whenever Tucker Carlson says something ridiculous and you want to trouble him.

Look, $787 million is a gargantuan sum of money. And if I were the lawyer advising Dominion --

CAMEROTA: You'll be rich?

JONES: I'd be rich and I certainly what would be advising them to settle for that amount, because I suspect the reason they did it and not for the $1.6 billion is because they had doubts about their own valuation, and because obviously the initial amount was 1.6, and they had tremendous leverage. Rupert Murdoch didn't want to take the stand. The Fox News hosts didn't want to take the stand and had to admit to lying. So, there was that piece to it.

It is really sad that they didn't take the stand but also I don't know that their taking the stand would have made a difference to the viewers of Fox. I think I think when you're a regular viewer of these programs, you're so entrenched in your way of thinking that it probably takes more, if it takes anything, if anything can change your mind, than someone simply disavowing, you know, the times that they talked about the election.

CAMEROTA: Yes, $787 million is a lot of money. However, it's not as much to Fox. CUPP: Well, no, they have $4 billion in cash on hand. I think the most important question here is will this deterrent Fox from being liars, from lying knowingly. And you would hope that this would chasten Fox and others who knowingly spread conspiracy theories or mislead people on a regular basis, but I don't know.

This is certainly -- the election line is certainly the biggest, most sensational lie, but it's not the only lie. I mean, the parents, the family of Seth Rich, a Democratic staffer who was murdered, sued Fox and settled because Fox kept perpetuating these baseless conspiracy theories about their son, turning a tragedy into a ratings win.

[22:25:00]

You know, the family of Brian Sicknick has begged Fox to stop lying and politicizing January 6th, lying about their son who's dead.

You know, Fox has been credibly accused of falsifying photos, videos running with things that are made up. Then there's the COVID conspiracies, I mean, it goes on and on. All of these are pernicious lies. And I just wonder like is this -- does anyone think this is going to stop the anchors of Fox News entertainment tonight from doing what they do?

CAMEROTA: The reason that I would say no is because this has been going on -- this Dominion suit has been going on for two-plus years and they've been doing the exact same thing during this suit. So, they clearly weren't cowed by this lawsuit.

GRANDERSON: Listen, as disappointing as we all are, I think the real conversation that comes out of this is that democracy loses, capitalism wins. You know, I just believe that the reason why there's a settlement is because the capital venture people who own Dominion saw the profit margins and said big bucks, no whammies, I'm taking the money, I don't like a chance on trial. We don't care that we can expose all of this. We don't care what this does with democracy. We don't care about the public good. We care about turning a profit.

CUPP: Well, they exposed a lot.

GRANDERSON: And, listen, they expose a lot for the purpose of what? Making money. And once they got to a point at which there was satisfied, they took the settlement. That's the way I feel. And the reason I feel that is because when you go and you look at who is the co-founders of the venture capitalist firm that owns Dominion, and you find out that there were two guys who -- and I have nothing against rich people. I love rich people. I want to be one of you. But there were two guys who like worked for like these firms that were on like the buyout teams for these firms. In other words, their job to go find limping companies, buy them out, flesh them out, get as much money as they possibly can and we expected too much.

CAMEROTA: Maybe we expected too much of these private equity guys to save democracy. And they took it a long way.

CUPP: They took a financial risk in this lawsuit as well. JONES: And it's not part of the public record, and there's been a ton of attention on this, and we will always have that. There will always be an asterisk. I mean, frankly, there already was for reasonable people, but they were now, I think, more objectively being asterisk next to the so called Fox News network.

CUPP: Fox News' own lawyers already admitted that some of their hosts don't traffic in facts. I don't think -- I mean, this changes things like ecumenically but I don't know that it changes things practically for Fox.

JONES: I agree with that.

FISCHER: So, I think just like the one big thing, though, that this does change is that we now know where the line is for Fox. So, moving forward when they face defamation suits, when they are having election lies or any kind of lies being peddled on their network, we now know that they do not want their network executives to have to respond. They're facing a lot of pressure, potential lawsuits. It was reported by shareholders who are frustrated with the board. We now know that when it comes to putting -- being put in that position, they're going to settle this out.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting. And you can start at $787 million.

FISCHER: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: Sara, we know that you're going to come back with us with a lot more of your reporting on this because, again, you've spent the day there, so back at 11:00 with our panel of reporters. Okay.

Everybody else, stay with me. America seems, of course, to be awash in guns, so much so that even ringing the wrong doorbell or mistakenly driving into the wrong driveway can get you shot. So, does that mean we have to adjust how we live our everyday lives? Maybe we already have. We'll discuss all that.

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[22:30:00]

CAMEROTA: Twenty-year-old Kaylen Gillis was shot and killed in upstate New York after she and three friends accidentally turned into a wrong driveway looking for another friend's house. The car turned around and as they were leaving the driveway, 65-year-old Kevin Monahan allegedly fired two shots from his front porch, one of them killing Kaylen Gillis. Monahan faces a second-degree murder charge in connection with her death.

An official tells CNN that Monahan has frankly not shown any remorse in the case. This shooting comes just days after, as we've discussed, that white homeowner was charged with shooting 16-year-old black teenager Ralph Yarl after he mistakenly rang the wrong doorbell. My panel is back with me and joining us is Republican strategist David Urban. Dave, great to have you here. You're a gun owner. Yes?

DAVID URBAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yep.

CAMEROTA: Do you think, as a gun owner, as a responsible gun owner, do you think that we've gotten to the point where people's Second Amendment rights, which of course, we have, are outweighing other rights at this point? When you can't wring somebody's doorbell because you're picking up your younger siblings, and you can't make an accidental turn into a driveway, it's starting to feel like maybe we're putting more emphasis on Second Amendment rights than other things.

URBAN: No, listen. So, I mean, those are incredibly tragic cases that have happened right? Like, I was watching the program earlier and, you know, there is no excuse for, you know, shooting through your doors when somebody is knocking at the door, ringing the doorbell in regards through 84, 64 or 24, right?

But on the other hand, you know, the cop -- and I heard, you know, I heard you reference like, you know, we -- what do we care about this 200-year-old document for, right?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, OP-ED COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: I didn't say that.

URBAN: I mean, you did -- you did kind of say --

GRANDERSON: This a law that we still adhere to that was put in place before bullets were (inaudible).

URBAN: Right. Right. But, (inaudible), well, but there had to be (inaudible). We agree to disagree, right? (Inaudible) on that. But, you know, it's the Constitution. You just can't flippantly say it doesn't matter, want to get rid of guns.

CAMEROTA: He didn't say it doesn't matter. We're only going to get rid of guns. For some if it -- at this point --

URBAN: So -- so, what's your premise?

CAMEROTA: The premise is there are more guns in this country than people, we know that.

URBAN: Right, 300 million roughly.

CAMEROTA: Or more.

URBAN: Right.

CAMEROTA: In the latest numbers I've seen, and it's starting to -- since we report every week on a mass shooting, and that's not an exaggeration. And now it feels as though because guns have become so readily available for some people that as we know, when you're a hammer every problem in the world is a nail. And so, just wondering, is there any way to rejigger this? I don't know what the answer is -- so that we can ring somebody's doorbell accidentally.

URBAN: Yeah. So, your question I think, too, that you have to ask is why do people feel they need guns in America? Right?

[22:35:04]

Why do people feel they need a gun in their home? What what's the answer to that?

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: They feel -- they feel unsafe? I mean, do they feel unsafe to a certain extent? I mean --

GRANDERSON: Yes.

URBAN: I'm asking you. So, you feel unsafe?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

URBAN: So --

GRANDERSON: -- in the first place.

URBAN: So, you feel unsafe.

UNKNOWN: It's a reason --

URBAN: So, but why do they feel unsafe? What is -- what's going on in society writ-large that people feel unsafe in their own homes?

CAMEROTA: Well, that's one --

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: It has always been. That's why the law is 200-plus years old. It's always been that way.

URBAN: So why -- exactly. So, people -- what is the reason, as Alisyn said, there wasn't always 300 million guns and firearms in America. So why do people feel the need today to go buy more farms to arm themselves --

CAMEROTA: Okay. We have some answers.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a -- but that's a good -- it's a good question. A

GRANDERSON: It is.

CUPP: And there's some good answers and people do feel unsafe. There are other communities of gun owners. I'm in another community of gun owner -- for sporting, hunting, target shooting. I also feel unsafe sometimes and so I use guns or have guns for self-defense, and that's a great question to ask, and that should not be off the table. However, these people were under no threat --

URBAN: In this case, a specific case, it's not --

CUPP: No, no, no, but let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. These two cases there was no threat.

URBAN: Yes.

CUPP: But the problem is worse because someone who takes an AR-15 into a school didn't buy that gun for self-defense, but they're going to kill people. And so, another reason people have guns is because we have bad mental health and we're not servicing people who have very serious problems.

Another reason is we're not jailing people as much as we used to. That's a big problem, I think, too. So, there's a lot in that. The point is, we should be able to ask all of those questions. When your first response, and I'm not being accusatory, when my former side of this arguments first response is so what do you want to do, rip up the Constitution?

URBAN: And that's all I'm saying.

CUPP: Well, that's not -- that's not as far as anyone wants to go, but either, and that's the way of not getting to the very good second question that you ask, and I think that's a good question. On the other hand, when someone says you're an NRA member, you are going to (inaudible) blood on your hands. That's also not helpful in having a very important conversation.

URBAN: So, hold up on that. I just want to respond to that because it's --

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

URBAN: So, I do think there's many the things you can do, right? So, you know, I was on this past weekend on State of the Union with Jared Moskowitz, Representative Moskowitz, who was -- went to high school in Parkland and was a state legislator in Florida and helped push through red flag law in the state of Florida with Republican legislator, Republican governor. It's in place now. It's very effective at taking guns. So, let's just be -- let's be factual about guns, right.

MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And most Republican legislators opposed those laws.

URBAN: Okay. But let's just be factual about guns and those red flag laws do tons to help because suicide 55 percent of --

CAMEROTA: Yeah, definitely.

URBAN: -- 55 percent of gun deaths are suicide.

CAMEROTA: Agree.

URBAN: The next largest portion of gun deaths are from abuse, spousal abuse. If somebody's spouse has a gun, kills the other spouse. So, those -- if you take those two categories, red flag laws wipe out 75 percent of gun deaths in those cases (inaudible).

CAMEROTA: We won't argue. URBAN: So, we could do laws.

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: No. I mean, that's having to assume, no, because the way red flags laws work --

URBAN: You got to go to court.

CUPP: -- is it has to be adjudicated by a judge that someone is mentally unstable or domestic violence or a threat to themselves or others. Then you have to get that judge to say yes, the loose gun should be taken away, and for how long. And then that has to flag a red -- the red flag system. It has to flag the (inaudible) system.

CAMEROTA: Right. But obviously --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: But they work. But they work.

CAMEROTA: Agree. They can be multi-pronged.

JONES: So, S.E. listed a number of fairly innocuous reasons why people own guns, but there is also like a right-wing apparatus in this country that encourages people to purchase firearms because they are told that the government is going to take them away from these people. They are told that there are dangerous black and brown people roaming the streets and so they need to protect themselves for that. I mean.

URBAN: Who said that? Just be factual. I mean, just don't say there's an apparatus. Be factual.

JONES: Oh, sure. Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Bret Baier, Maria --

URBAN: The say by guns -- they say buy guns.

CAMEROTA: They say that people are going to take, like, the government is going to take them away from you all.

CUPP: Well, David, don't --

CAMEROTA: I've seen it on Twitter too.

URBAN: Listen, I'm not defending -- I'm not defending the --

JONES: I don't want to be intellectually honest, but --

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: I mean, there is an entire culture of black--

JONES: You are playing dumb David.

CUPP: -- nuts who have fetishized these weapons and created this mythology around militias and needing to stand up to a government as if you're one gun could stand up to the government. That has been a fetishization that you don't have to pretend you don't know about.

JONES: There is a deputy mayor in the district that I used to represent who was found with dozens and dozens of assault weapons, and thank God, through the ingenuity of the FBI and other law enforcement agents, like, this was discovered. But there --

URBAN: What was he planning to do with it?

JONES: He was -- it's a great question. I think we can imagine what.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: This is obviously -- we're out of time.

URBAN: So, this is my question, because he owns a bunch of guns, you're presumably bad?

CAMEROTA: Hold on. Hold on, David. Quickly, L.Z. Go ahead.

JONES: No, but if you're stopped (inaudible) weapons of war, you're probably not going to use it for good reason.

[22:39:57]

GRANDERSON: My only thing is, is that because I think you like to gaslight our conversation, which is very frustrating, but there is one aspect of it I think we can find common ground. If you are so into these red flag laws, then during the primary season coming up in 2024, why don't you as a strategist talk to --

URBAN: I did. I did.

GRANDERSON: -- talk to candidates about pushing this in there -- during the primary.

URBAN: I do. I think it's a great idea.

GRANDERSON: So then when you get to the general election there's some representative --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Did I not just bring it up --

GRANDERSON: -- once to talk about --

URBAN: -- on the Sunday -- on the Sunday show. I said, it's a great idea. I praised Jared Moskowitz for doing it. I just raised it again.

CAMEROTA: Guys, I'm sorry that we have --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Obviously we could talk about this online.

CUPP: Let's not keep talk over our host here. CAMEROTA: Thank you, S.E. Obviously it's going to require a

multipronged approach and longer conversations. I really appreciate all of you weighing in on this. Be sure to tune to the top of the hour because our favorite reporters are going to be here to discuss the scoops that they're covering. Of course, some of this will come up and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has this growing feud with Disney that we'll touch on. Okay, but now to this.

It started as a pep talk for employees. Let me catch my breath, but it ended with the CEO admonishing them for asking about their bonuses. We'll talk about how it went off the rails next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDI OWEN, CEO, MILLERKNOLL: Don't ask about what are we going to do if we don't get a bonus? Get the damn $26 million. Spend your time and your effort thinking about the $26 million we need and not thinking about what you're going to do if we don't get a bonus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:00]

CAMEROTA: Let's all do that. This is bonus season for a lot of employees. So, staffers at the office furniture company MillerKnoll asked their CEO during a video town hall how they could stay motivated if they do not get a bonus. But her pep talk may not have had the intended effect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OWEN: Get our orders out our door, treat each other well. Be kind. Be respectful. Focus on the future because it will be bright. It's not good to be in a situation we're in today, but we're not going to be here forever. It is going to get better. So, lead, led by example, treat people well. Talk to them, be kind, and get after it.

Don't ask about what are we going to do if we don't get a bonus? Get the damn $26 million. Spend your time and your effort thinking about the $26 million we need and not thinking about what you're going to do if we don't get a bonus, alright? Can I get some commitment for that? I would appreciate that.

I had an old boss who said to me one time you can visit pity city, but you can't live there. So, people, leave pity city. Let's get it done. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now, here's another little bit of context you need in 2022. That CEO, Andi Owen, took home $5 million in compensation, including stock options and a bonus. I'm back with the panel. That was -- that was -- that was great. CUPP: It is -- that clip, because I'm on TikTok as you know, the TikTok. It's all over TikTok. She's getting pummeled and rightfully so. I just can't imagine living in that rarified air where you actually think this is a good idea on a Zoom or -- that anyone can record, to say just suck it up, guys. You're not getting bonuses. Just be kind to each other, and also about how much money we --

CAMEROTA: The company -- because the company needs $26 million to hit their financial goals.

CUPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So that's why she was, like, go out and find the $26 million and get out of pity city.

CUPP: Yeah.

URBAN: I think she should -- maybe she could provide bus fare out of pity city for them

CUPP: Right.

GRANDERSON: You know, it's --she deserves to get all the attention and negativity that she's getting, but she's also just saying the quiet part out loud because every time that corporate America comes through with record profits and still lays off people and still hits up the C Suite with bonuses, they're basically saying the same thing.

CAMEROTA: But is that the best management style you've ever seen?

CUPP: Yeah, totally, Alisyn.

(LAUGHTER)

GRANDERSON: Yes. It's pretty close. I like the way here face shifted for a happy message. Did you see that? Her eyes (inaudible) now! I think I was like, whoa!

JONES: She practiced it. She did practice it.

CAMEROTA: I think we ended the reading portion of that message and then we shifted to the real portion of that (inaudible) --

GRANDERSON: She was like a machine of beep.

JONES: Has she done an apology video yet?

CAMEROTA: Has she done and apology since you're on the TikTok?

CUPP: No. I think the statement said something to the fact that like that was just part of it. The rest of the zoom was very positive.

GRANDERSON: I did see that part of her statement.

JONES: I didn't say you could eat cake. I was like, wow. CAMEROTA: Yeah, that makes it okay, I guess. I mean, I just don't --

people go to management school. Don't you learn how to manage people, David?

URBAN: She is the CEO of the company.

CAMEROTA: Yeah.

URBAN: Presumably, she would have some magical skills and she's talking about leading from the front. She's clearly not leading from the front by telling people to suck it up and leave pity city while she's probably vacationing in St. Kitts or someplace.

JONES: I will say that that this mentality is something that really bothers the average American in this country. I mean, they see, again, as to L.Z.'s point, record breaking corporate profits, but they have not seen their wages increase when you adjust for inflation. And frankly, even before this latest bout with inflation over the past several decades, and something's got to give.

I think it contributes to a lot of the economic anxiety and angst that people see, and that unfortunately manifests itself in an increasingly polarized environment.

CUPP: I think she would have been okay if she had said listen, get out of pity city, I know there were no bonuses this year, and I'm going to take a pay cut as well. Shouldn't do that second part. So, I mean, there's some tough love. You can do that as a manager. We've all been in tough times, and we've seen cuts and all of that. Everyone knows the reality of that.

But to see a CEO not take any of that burden on herself and then basically scold people for complaining. That's where she --

[22:50:00]

GRANDERSON: I mean, and it's not in a vacuum, right? I mean, we did go through inflation. Americans were struggling. So, to not complain about your bonuses, maybe you cannot complain with your bonuses because you need this money to pay your bills.

CUPP: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And maybe you're counting on your bonus.

GRANDERSON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Thank you all. Great conversation. All right. It was a very threatening moment in the NFL. Buffalo Bill's safety Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest during a game in January. And now he is out today with a big announcement.

(JBEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAMAR HAMLIN, SAFETY, BUFFALO BILLS: This event was life changing. But it's not the end of my story. So, I'm here to announce that I plan on making a comeback to the NFL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:54:56]

CAMEROTA: Buffalo Bills' safety, Damar Hamlin has been medically cleared to return to football. We all remember Hamlin's collapse in early January in that playoff game against the Bengals. Now, after three and a half months and consultations with three separate specialists, Hamlin is back and training at the team's facility. He says he's eager to return to the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMLIN: I died on national TV in front of the whole world. You know what I mean? The biggest blessing of it all is for me to still have my people and my people still have me. Some people might say that coming back to play might not be the best option, but that's their opinion. And like I said, I'm going to be a statistic my whole life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Doctors say Hamlin can resume full activities. CNN's medical team says there is nothing to suggest his likelihood of having this happen again is any higher than the general population. All right coming up, we've got some of our top reporters here to share their scoops on the stories that they are covering, including the huge Fox settlement, and Governor Ron DeSantis' latest battle with Disney. They're coming in now. Can't wait to talk to you, ladies. Tomorrow's news tonight, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)