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CNN Tonight
Panel Discusses What Is Next After Debt Ceiling Negotiation; Michigan Adults Charged After Seven-Year-Old Brings Gun To School; ChatGPT CEO Himself Is Now Worried About Artificial Intelligence; CNN TONIGHT Presents "On the Lookout." Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired May 16, 2023 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Thanks for tuning in to this hour where we bring you "Tomorrow's News Tonight." We have our great lineup of reporters here with me tonight. Jessica Dean, Omar Jimenez, whose stretching for the occasion, Danny Freeman --
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE).
CAMEROTA: Yes. Yep, get it all out. And Sara Fischer. Okay, so, it's election day in several states. The results of some races are already trickling in. Let's focus on Pennsylvania, among the key races there, the democratic primary for mayor in Philadelphia, and also a state house race that will likely decide if Democrats maintain control.
So, the GOP primary also we have for governor in Kentucky, and Trump endorsed one candidate. Ron DeSantis backed another. We will see what happens there. And just yesterday, President Biden endorsed Heather Boyd, who is running for state rep in Pennsylvania.
Danny, do we know who won?
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We got a bunch of races here. All --
CAMEROTA: (INAUDIBLE) cover all of them, my friend.
FREEMAN: I love it. So, I think the most recent result that we just got in is in that special election in Pennsylvania.
CAMEROTA: Okay. What is it?
FREEMAN: That is Heather Boyd, the Democrat. I believe CNN or the "AP" is projecting that she has now won that seat, and that was so consequential. I mentioned it last night because that means that Democrats will retain the state house in Pennsylvania. Again, this was a last-minute effort by Democrats. Joe Biden made an endorsement. The governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, also jumped into the race.
Now, we know that Democrat Heather Boyd has beaten Republican Katie Ford in that race.
CAMEROTA: So that was really -- was it a really close race?
FREEMAN: You know, close is not necessarily the word I would use, but it was maybe 5,000 votes have been counted in total in the race so far. It is about 34% to 44 at last check, but I think the expectation is that will widen a little bit as the night goes on.
CAMEROTA: Okay. Last night, you were also telling us about the Philly mayoral race.
FREEMAN: Yeah. The Philly mayoral race, that is actually pretty surprising at the moment. I think we have a vote board that we can pull up at this point. Okay. So, stick with this. So, we told you last night that it was kind of a tight race of about 4 or 5 at the top.
Cherelle Parker right there, she is a former city council member, former state legislator. She is now in a sizable lead over her other opponents right there. Still, there are outstanding votes in Philadelphia, but she is someone who the current mayor of Philadelphia voted for.
She is someone who knows politics in the city and outside, not necessarily the progressive fire brands like the person in third place right now, Helen Gym. Helen Gym had Bernie Sanders's and OAC in Philadelphia rallying for her on the weekend. And she, though, is not at the top level right now.
I should also say that Philadelphia has had 99 mayors in its long history. If one of these results hold, one of those top three, it'll be the first time that a woman will be the mayor of Philadelphia. I should say Democrats, they have a huge voter registration. This is the democratic primary, but whoever wins tonight likely will win in November.
CAMEROTA: Okay. Really interesting. Now, bring us up to speed in Kentucky.
FREEMAN: So, moving to Kentucky now, down to the south, that race, CNN has called as well. The one that we're all looking at was the GOP primary for governor. Daniel Cameron, he is the attorney general, the Republican attorney general right there. We declared him the winner just a little while ago. He's running against Kelly Craft, who was the former ambassador to the U.N. for President Trump.
Now, why is this race particularly interesting, especially when a call is so early? This was, as we've been talking about for a couple of days now, kind of the first proxy fight of the republican presidential nominating process on the republican side because Trump endorsed Cameron and DeSantis endorsed Craft.
And there was a lot of, you know, hey, we have two of potentially frontrunners in this republican presidential nomination getting behind two candidates in red state of Kentucky. And now, we saw that the Trump-backed candidate won.
Actually, the Trump pack, they put out a statement right away, I think we have it as well, basically gloating specifically over DeSantis right there. President Trump is the leader of the Republican Party. The results in Kentucky's republican gubernatorial primary tonight reaffirmed that Republican voters stand with President Trump, not Ron DeSantis. So --
CAMEROTA: So, not mentioning the candidate. Just mentioning --
FREEMAN: Right. Right. They're getting right to the point on that one. So, yeah, interesting races all around.
CAMEROTA: Jessica, were we talking last night about how many people have gone through the Pennsylvania reporting?
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
CAMEROTA: The, you know, gauntlet (ph). And you're one of them.
DEAN: (INAUDIBLE) from 2013 to 2018. I was a reporter and anchor there.
CAMEROTA: In Philly?
DEAN: In Philadelphia. And lived in Philadelphia.
CAMEROTA: Uh-hmm.
DEAN: And then also went back for Joe Biden's campaign, which you will remember was a lot of Pennsylvania, then, of course, Delaware, and then most recently, the Senate race with John Fetterman and Dr. Oz.
CAMEROTA: And it's a particular place. I mean, it has a particular personality --
DEAN: It sure does.
CAMEROTA: -- and accent.
DEAN: It sure -- well, we all were doing our best Philly accent. It takes a second to get it. Being from Arkansas originally, it took me many seconds to get it.
[23:05:03]
But it does. And what's interesting about Pennsylvania and why it remains such a swing state is because you have Pittsburgh, Philadelphia on kind of the east and west poles there, and then in the middle, it's very rural and very conservative overall.
And so, it really does cut an interesting -- it really is an interesting mix of people and it is quite a bellwether for presidential races, and also that senate race was obviously a big deal.
FREEMAN: And now, it is one of the few states that has a truly split level of state government.
DEAN: Right. FREEMAN: You have a Democratic governor right now, a democratic house now that was just maintained --
CAMEROTA: As of a few minutes ago.
FREEMAN: Exactly. But still a very strong republican state senate. So, again, lot of swingy forces still at play in the state.
JIMENEZ: One of those things in Kentucky, you have some of (INAUDIBLE) Kentucky --
FREEMAN: Yes.
JIMENEZ: -- red state, you got a Democratic governor in Andy Beshear, and now you have Daniel Cameron who won this republican nomination. I'm just curious how this feels like a very high-profile fight where, you know, just a few weeks ago, the mass shooting happened in Louisville, the governor was very outspoken about how he feels guns should be handled in a state that's notoriously has one of the least restrictive gun laws in the country.
And with Daniel Cameron, I think my mind immediately goes to the criticism he got around the handling of the Breonna Taylor case and how obviously not all the officers involved were charged, but there is criticism about how he as attorney general handled the grand jury proceedings.
So, I'm just -- it feels like -- you know, some states, you have, you know, like in Philadelphia, its democratic primary, they go on to win, but in Kentucky, it feels like this actually is going to be a pretty big fight in that state.
FREEMAN: Well, it's interesting you brought up Breonna Taylor in that case.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
FREEMAN: That has already come up in the republican primary where Cameron was actually attacked from the right by Craft. She was saying that Daniel Cameron was basically allowing the Biden administration to come in and meddle with Kentucky affairs. He took a lot of umbrage against that.
But if it's already coming up in the republican primary, I bet it will come out likely in the general as well.
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Big question for Jessica, because I know that you are covering so many things, politics, Biden, White House.
(LAUGHTER)
When it comes to Pennsylvania --
DEAN: Do it all.
FISCHER: You do it all.
DEAN: Yeah.
FISCHER: When it comes to Pennsylvania, what is Biden's plan for that? Because, obviously, he needs to start thinking about how he is going to win that state in 2024. Fetterman was a good sign, but it was so close that I don't think it's enough for him to feel quite comfortable yet.
DEAN: Right. And remember, it was Pennsylvania that put him over the edge and made him president. And look, Philadelphia, that was a point of pride for that city, for so many people in that city, and he is, of course, from Scranton where he was born and has a lot of strong ties to Pennsylvania.
But I think you make a great point. And what we saw in 2020 is what I think we will likely see in 2024, which is like he went over and over and over again to Pennsylvania. And remember, we were all -- you know, all of us on the campaign are like, oh, my gosh, we're going to Pennsylvania again, you know. But --
FREEMAN: It's a great place. It is a great commonwealth. Come on.
DEAN: I love the commonwealth, but, you know, there are 49 other states.
CAMEROTA: How many hoagies can you have?
FISCHER: That's right.
DEAN: It is so critical and it is going to be critical once again. And I just -- for all of those out there who will be following the presidential race in 2024, get ready for more Pennsylvania is what I would say.
CAMEROTA: You, too.
DEAN: Yeah.
CAMEROTA: Let's quickly talk about what happened in North Carolina tonight. So, very critical abortion decision.
FREEMAN: Yeah, another vote, but not an election necessarily. We were talking about this on the show for a number of weeks now. Basically, the North Carolina state house decided to override that veto. That just happened over the weekend with Governor Roy Cooper. That basically says that there will be a 12-week abortion ban with some other -- some minor exceptions.
And it was quite a scene out there. Dianne Gallagher, our correspondent, covers that area, covering this, she was down there and she saw some of the reaction that came right after that vote in the house was taken. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNKNOWN: The house has overrun the governor's veto and the bill becomes law notwithstanding the governor's objections. So, be notified.
CROWD: Shame! Shame! Shame!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: So, basically, abortion is now banned after 12 weeks, but there are some exceptions. And, as you can see, the people who have packed the chamber there are not pleased.
FREEMAN: That's right. And one of things that's important specifically about this particular decision is that North Carolina, as Dianne was talking on the show just a week and a half ago, is one of the states that actually there was, up until this law was passed, a lot more access for a lot of states in the south. So, it's going to be perhaps even more challenging to access abortion not just in North Carolina but across the south at this time.
CAMEROTA: Yeah, understood. Okay, thank you all very much for all of those updates.
[23:10:00]
Okay, meanwhile, the clock is still ticking. We talked about this a lot and nothing has changed. The country could default on our debt as soon as June 1st. There was a big meeting about it today at the White House. Jessica has got the scoop on what happened, next.
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CAMEROTA: President Biden meeting with Kevin McCarthy today about how to avoid a U.S. default. They have now agreed on who on their individual teams will negotiate with each other. Jessica has been working on this all day. So, tell us about the meeting. Who has the upper hand at this hour?
DEAN: Right. So, all eyes were on this meeting. You had all four members of leadership from Congress and then President Biden. And I think a couple things that were key points to come away with, number one, as you mentioned, they've now narrowed down who is negotiating.\
[23:14:58]
Biden and Senate Democrats have pushed back on the word that I'm using, negotiating. But the fact is they're having discussions.
CAMEROTA: What do they want it called?
DEAN: They just do not want to use that word. The whole time, they have said, we will not negotiate over the debt ceiling. And now, they are negotiating to get a deal to ultimately get this done.
So, we now know that it is Steve Ricchetti and Shalanda Young from the administration and then Garret Graves and Kevin McCarthy staff members. These are people -- this signals that this is getting serious. That is good for the American people. These are people that hopefully can get a deal done. And they will get in a room and continue to talk and continue to trade papers.
The other thing that was important today is that we were told by the Democrats that came out that everyone in the meeting this time agreed to take default off of the table.
If you will remember, last time they met, Kevin McCarthy would not say that specifically. When we asked him, he sorts of evade that question. And so, now, they're saying that everybody is in an agreement on that. So, that kind of gets us a little bit one step forward, let's say.
CAMEROTA: How funny is that negotiate is a bad word? The American people want, Sara, want these two to negotiate. That is what they want.
FISCHER: That's the whole point of being in Congress.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
FISCHER: (INAUDIBLE) any sense. What is crazy about the story is I feel like it is deja vu.
DEAN: Yes.
FISCHER: Every year, we hit this deadline, we panic, and then eventually it is fine and we pass a budget. We don't go over the debt ceiling. But then, this year, it feels a little bit different. This year, it feels like we might actually have a problem.
DEAN: Right. We were talking about this when we were getting ready to come out here. This is different. I mentioned this a little bit last night, too. We are precariously close to this deadline. And it is often that we are there on Capitol Hill talking to everybody about deadlines that are approaching and can they get this done.
This is very, very serious to the extent that we have never in the history of our country defaulted on our debt. And that if we were to do so, the financial calamity that it would not only mean for our country but for the global economy is very serious.
CAMEROTA: Take us into those halls because we are not in there. What is the mood when you and reporters are running around trying to get comments? Why does it feel different?
DEAN: It just feels like there is an acceptance that this time is different. A, we are so close to the deadline. B, as the years have passed, this for years was not a thing. They would just raise the debt ceiling. Remember, this is money that has already been spent. It's not like they are authorizing new spending and this is paying our bills. They would just raise it.
And then when President Obama was in office, it started to become more politicized. That has only grown over time. So, here we are now where you have some members of the House GOP who are adamantly against ever raising it no matter what. They don't care. And that is different. We really have not seen a lot of that. Remember, with the four-vote margin with House Republicans, those votes really matter and those opinions matter.
JIMENEZ: One thing that strikes me just talking about Capitol Hill stuff is when -- you know, when you are negotiating over budget and it goes to reconciliation last-minute or whatever it might be, you kind of have right up until the deadline.
DEAN: Right.
JIMENEZ: And, you know, you see reporters like yourselves and others who are in the Capitol all hours of the night, ordering pizza, just trying to stay up with what is going on. With this one, just being close to the deadline can already have affects. We've seen that.
DEAN: Totally. Absolutely. So, in 2011, we just got close to it. Moody downgrades our credit. It was tumultuous for the markets. It was tumultuous for the economy. You know, I don't have to tell anybody sitting at home, everybody is very aware, the economy is what it is.
We are dealing with inflation. They are trying to find a soft landing. We have been concerned about a recession for months now. And we have been able to evade that so far. And now, you are talking about throwing in the most giant wrench we could possibly find.
CAMEROTA: Let's listen to what former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers is saying about where we are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER SECRETARY OF TREASURY: During the period when the default was being debated in 2011, the stock market went down by a little more than 15%. Today, that would be in the range of $6 trillion. That is $20,000 for every American almost in wealth that at least for a time would be destroyed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That drives from your point.
DEAN: Right.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
DEAN: I don't have to say it any more clearly than that. You think about people who are on fixed income. And we talk about not being able to potentially pay military members, not being able to pay social security benefits. This really -- the ripple effects are giant.
FREEMAN: Today, also, do I see that President Biden's trip was going to be cut short a little bit because of these debts, right?
DEAN: Yes, that is a good point, and we should talk about that because he is traveling abroad.
[23:20:00]
He is going to the G7 in Japan. But we learned today, to your point, Danny, that there was back and forth on what he continued on. He had planned to go to New Guinea and Australia, and they ended up -- they are just going to postpone all of that and do it another time because again, it is just a very condensed timeframe that we are working with here.
FREEMAN: That seemed to me like -- oh, this is serious now. The trips, they are getting shorter.
FISCHER: Right.
FREEMAN: That is the real business now.
CAMEROTA: People wanted to know. I mean, since the clock is ticking, are you going to adjust anything in your schedule, and it sounds like now they finally are --
DEAN: They have. Yes. So, now, we watch and we see, can they get to a deal?
CAMEROTA: Okay, we do have breaking news to get to right now because CNN can project that former Philadelphia city council member, Cherelle Parker, will be the Democratic nominee for the mayor of that city. We just moments ago had seen where she was ahead of her competitors. And now, we can project that she will win.
She was heavily favored against Republican -- will be heavily favored, as you said, against Republican David Oh, who was unopposed in his primary in November's general election. If Parker wins, she will be the first woman to serve as mayor of Philadelphia. There you have it. More results coming in on all of this and we will bring it to you as they do.
Okay, meanwhile, two adults charged in Michigan after a seven-year-old brings a gun to school. This is a new story. We keep hearing about how somehow kids are getting their hand on weapons. Omar has reporting on the story and how two school districts are now cracking down on something that kids like to bring to school. We will explain.
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[23:25:00]
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CAMEROTA: All right, two adults charged after a seven-year-old brings a gun to school in his backpack in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The mother, Aubrey Wilson, now facing a fourth-degree child abuse charge, and her fiancee, Chelsea Berkley, charged with one count of felony possession of a firearm. Now, Grand Rapids public schools have banned students from bringing backpacks to school.
Omar Jimenez is reporting on this story. I am not sure that the backpack was the problem.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. I mean, look, the backpack is actually, I think, an attempted solution in a situation where I think administrators and others feel like they don't have a lot of solutions to give. I mean, look, we have seen over 200 mass shootings across this country. Some of them have happened in schools.
In this particular case, you have got a seven-year-old who brings a gun, unloaded, to school but a gun nonetheless. And those charges that were announced today stem from this seven-year-old bringing a gun to school on May 3rd. And then a week later, on May 10th, in the same Grand Rapids school district, a third-grader brings a loaded gun to school in their backpack.
I want you to take a listen to the Grand Rapids Police chief as he was trying to process today what was actually happening and the situation that he has never seen before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC WINSTROM, CHIEF, GRAND RAPIDS POLICE: I have about 23 years of police experience and I will say this is the first time and now the second time that I have ever encountered a child that small having a gun in school. It was new to me and to see it twice in a one-week period is very alarming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Yeah.
JIMENEZ: And so far, this year, in just that school district, this is now the fourth gun that they have confiscated. So, that, I think, is part of what made them say, okay, until we figure out what is going on, we are just going to ban backpacks altogether, which again sounds extreme and honestly sounds kind of crazy to a lot of people looking from the outside in, but it truly, I think, is coming from a place of desperation of we have got to figure out at least something that we can control.
CAMEROTA: What do we know about this seven-year-old's mother and fiance? Any criminal background, anything?
JIMENEZ: Yes. So, one of the -- the fiance has been charged felony and possession of a firearm. So, there clearly is a history there. They are also looking into the origins of this particular weapon as well.
And when we talk about the backpack ban, specifically, it is not just this Grand Rapids area that is dealing with this. If you just want to stay in Michigan, outside of Detroit, the Flint School District has also banned backpacks because they have said that they have been monitoring an increase in threats in that arena as well.
And just to illustrate the difficulty that the school districts have been wrestling with and making these decisions, I want to read a little bit of what the Grand Rapids School District has said, at least the superintendent there, saying that this is not a decision we have taken lightly. We know that this poses a significant inconvenience for our families. I am more frustrated that a decision like this is necessary, but we must put safety first and that's what this decision is about.
And again, it is that feeling that we did not have any other choice that we are now taking this step that maybe 15 years ago would have seemed like -- seems like something out of an absolute sci-fi movie.
DEAN: It seems extreme, right?
JIMENEZ: It seems extreme.
DEAN: But it is interesting that we are seeing the parent and the fiance being held accountable for this. We've talked about the other Michigan case. In that case, it was a fatal school shooting where the parents --
CAMEROTA: Oxford.
DEAN: Yes, are being held accountable.
CAMEROTA: Yes. They were charged.
DEAN: Yes. And it makes you wonder if that is what -- if we are going to continue to see that sort of trend, especially with kids seven years old. So young.
CAMEROTA: If you are seven years old, why wouldn't you charge the parents? Seven-year-old can't be --
DEAN: Is not going out to buy a gun. Right.
CAMEROTA: -- making rational decisions. So --
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JIMENEZ: And actually, in Michigan, the prosecutor mentioned today that they don't even have a mechanism to charge somebody under 10 years old in this situation because of what you are saying. It is -- a 10-year-old or a seven-year-old would not have the forethought to intentionally do this and understand what it means.
And the police chief even said, look, if I was a seven or eight-year- old kid and I saw a gun lying around in my house, I would think it was cool, I would want to play with it, I would want to take it and show my friends. So, that seems to be part of the issue here.
But to your point, we have started to see a lot of districts across the country, police jurisdictions, actually crackdown on parents and try to hold someone accountable for what's happening. I mean, look at this list alone. We were just talking about the one in Kent County, which is Grand Rapids. But in Newport News, Virginia, if you remember, the six-year-old student who shot his teacher, the mother of that six- year-old was charged.
And then in Oxford, Michigan, this was out of a school shooting in November the 2021, the parents were charged or has been agreed to stand trial on four counts of involuntary manslaughter, partly tied to allegations of negligence around the gun but also ignoring warning signs leading up to this. That case is the one that could actually have a real precedent here because we're not just talking about like in the seven-year-old case and others, oh, you just left your gun lying about and nothing happened.
But in this one, there were warning signs that were allegedly ignored. And for parents that are out there, parents of, you know, the worst nightmare of potentially being a parent to a potential mass shooter, it does create this new potential arena of criminal liability, depending on what happens with that case out of Oxford.
CAMEROTA: Yeah.
FISCHER: You mentioned that this was happening not just in Grand Rapids but in other places, in Flint, in Michigan. Is this a problem that happens to exist in a certain part of the country more than others? I think about my home state of New Jersey. Obviously, we have gun violence, but it tends to be, you know, a pretty split state, mostly blue. It's not a heavily gun and armed state. Is this something that is particular to Michigan and certain places or no?
JIMENEZ: Not particular to Michigan. I think, you know, going back to 2015, we've seen instances where backpacks have been banned in places from New York State to others in certain districts. So, it has definitely happened before.
But I think in the last few years, in particular, it really has ramped up because when you talk about the debate of what you do around school safety, you know, people talk about pardoning schools, with exits and school security guards, all the way up to arming titters. All of these solutions, potential solutions, are thrown out there and this seems to fit into that debate as we've seen that rise in mass shootings.
But I should also mention a really important point, is that with all of these mass shootings and in particular, mass killings that we see, the vast majority of mass killings happen in private settings, in the home. Not so much, even though they get the most attention and rightfully so, in public settings.
And so, when you talk about handling of weapons around the home, these are all cases that touch that. And clearly, there is data to back up the handling of weapons at home accounts for a large amount of gun violence in this country.
CAMEROTA: It's unconscionable, honestly, not have safe storage. If you're going to be a responsible gun owner, you must have safe storage, particularly if you have kids. There is a horrible story, Danny, that we are just finding out about in Texas.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
CAMEROTA: A four-year-old toddler found their families or their parents' gun and shot his or her one-year-old --
JIMENEZ: One-year-old. CAMEROTA: -- sibling.
JIMENEZ: One-year-old sibling, yeah. This was outside of Houston. It is another classic example of what we're talking about. As the Grand Rapids police chief alluded to, if you are a young kid and you see a gun lying about, at that age, you cannot rely on someone to fully understand the magnitude and the capability of that gun. So, someone sees it, plays around with it, and this four-year-old ends up shooting the one-year-old sibling.
Now, thankfully, the one-year-old is expected to be okay, but I can imagine, a few inches otherwise, and we'll be talking about a different story here and even more of a nightmare for these parents. But again, it's something that's very prevalent, and we're seeing it play out in the form of backtrack bans.
CAMEROTA: All right, thank you very much for all that reporting. Meanwhile, a blunt warning from the top guy at ChatGPT. He shares his worst fear about artificial intelligence. Sara is going to explain it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: A Senate hearing today on the dangers of artificial intelligence as tech industry leaders, including Elon Musk, call for A.I. labs to slow down their development, citing what they say are profound risks to society and humanity. The CEO of OpenAI, that is the company behind ChatGPT, told senators what he fears will happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM ALTMAN, CEO, OPENAI: My worst fears are that we cause significant -- we -- the field, the technology, the industry -- cause significant harm to the world. I think that can happen in a lot of different ways. It is why we started the company. It is a big part of why I'm here today and why we've been here in the past and we've been able to spend some time with you.
I think if this technology goes wrong, it can go quite wrong. And we want to be vocal about that. We want to work with the government to prevent that from happening.
[23:39:59]
But we try to be very clear eyed about what the downside cases and the work that we have to do to mitigate that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Wow.
UNKNOWN: Oh, my God. UNKNOWN: Horrifying.
CAMEROTA: Guys, that is so sobering.
JIMENEZ: (INAUDIBLE).
CAMEROTA: I mean, it is so sobering because when the CEO of the company that stands to make money, to profit from it, is saying, pump the brakes, I beseech you -- are they listening? Are lawmakers listening?
FISCHER: They are definitely listening. They are taking a hearing. One thing I want to stress, in the social media era, politicians were quick to embrace social media technology because it is good for their campaigns and reaching out to constituents. It took a decade for politicians to pay attention to people sounding the alarms about harms in social media.
So, the fact that this was ruled out publicly less than a year ago and we already have the CEO of OpenAI, ChatGPT, on Capitol Hill testifying, to me, it means they are taking it more seriously.
Are we going to see action being taken? That is the question. I think it is unusual to see a huge group of lawmakers come to consensus around any issue but especially in big tech. But the problem is, we do not have a good track record of passing any legislation around tech. We don't even have a national privacy law in this country, which is insane that we can't even get that passed. We can't get political ads transparency past. We can't get algorithm bias laws passed.
And so, if you are asking me if there is anything to get done here, the answer is probably no in the short term, although I'm happy that they're taking it seriously.
CAMEROTA: I think it is chilling.
DEAN: It is so chilling. I'm kind of in denial about it. I want to just, like, uh, fine, don't worry. But listen to that and it really does sober you up to that reality. You know, being on Capitol Hill, especially over on the Senate, it is made up of much older members of society.
I have a hard time sometimes understanding A.I. I do not claim to be technologically savvy individual. However, I still have a hard time understanding it. Do you get the sense here that these lawmakers and their staff members even more so are really getting the gravity of this?
FISCHER: That's the thing. I don't think they understand the technology itself. Heck, I cover technology and it is hard for me to understand the technology itself. You talk to the CEOs of these companies, they don't know how these algorithms are truly working. But I will tell you, they do understand the gravity and they do take this really seriously.
I want you to listen to something that Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said that was really eye-opening. This is an example of a senator who came to this hearing with open eyes, explaining how important this was. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-(CT): And now, for some introductory remarks.
Too often, we have seen what happens when technology outpaces regulation. The unbridled exploitation of personal data. The proliferation of disinformation.
The remarks were written by ChatGPT. When I was asked, how I would open this hearing, what reverberated in my mind was, what if I had asked it and what if it had provided an endorsement of Ukraine surrendering or Vladimir Putin's leadership? That would have been really frightening.
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CAMEROTA: Wow. Wow.
FREEMAN: That is wild.
FISCHER: That is the point before he is actually using the technology. So, he came prepared here. The question becomes, what is going to happen next? Are we actually going to do anything about it? I do think what was eye-opening about this hearing is we have some solutions that were proposed. That is rare for Congress, especially on tech.
CAMEROTA: What are those?
FISCHER: It's a good question. I think a few of them were kind of controversial. Some of them seemed much more open to everybody. For example, some folks are saying, could we create some sort of a safety review board in which before we deploy mass algorithms out for A.I. programs, they have to get reviewed and tested.
One of the things that Gary Marcus, a former professor who is sort of the big thought leader in A.I. had proposed, was creating something similar to the FDA. Before we throw out a drug for the public to consume, we test it, etcetera.
Another thing that they said was maybe we should be funding at trying to create a Constitution for A.I, which creates morals, values, and rules for how we create different levels of algorithms in tech. One of the things that I thought, Sam Altman, who again is the CEO of OpenAI, proposed that was really smart, was to create a regulatory agency to solve this. Again, going back to the FDA example.
In other parts of the world, by the way, they do have internet agencies. In the U.K., they have Ofcom, which regulates all of communications, including online communications. Australia has made proposals like this. We are far from that in the U.S.
DEAN: Yeah. FISCHER: So, while I think some of the solutions that were proposed are interesting, like I said, I think we are far away from implementing them.
FREEMAN: Sara, can I ask you? Does it feel -- to me, the cat is already kind of out of the bag. I guess this happens all the time with evolving social media things. They are out there. People realize, oh, God, they may be terrifying. And then only after it is already used by millions of people do regulators maybe try to step in.
[23:45:04]
FISCHER: That is always the trend with technology. You talk about social media, the example that social media giants love to give is cars. It took decades for us to implement laws around seatbelts. Same thing with cigarettes. It took decades for us to implement laws around adverting, etcetera.
What is different here, Danny, to your point, is that when this ruled out, there was 100 million people who instantly signed up for it. We've never seen adoption like that for consumer tech in my lifetime, for sure.
And so, to your point, the speed at which this is being deployed is so fast that I think regulators and technologists, like there is a reason that Sam Altman is coming out here and complaining and sounding the alarm, you know, is because of this adoption.
The other one that has been super notable and vocal on this is Elon Musk. If you remember, Elon Musk cofounded this company. He walked away from it in part because he felt as though the technology was moving in innovating much faster than we could potentially control. Now, Elon Musk, somebody who is sending rockets up into space, for him to be saying that we might need to sound the alarm and pump the brakes is crazy. Listen to what he had to say tonight on CNBC.
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ELON MUSK, CEO OF TWITTER, SPACEX, AND TESLA: I think it is very much a double-edged sword. I think there is a strong probability that it will make life much better and that we will have an age of abundance. And there is some chance that it goes wrong and destroy humanity. Hopefully, that chance is small, but it is not zero.
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CAMEROTA: Oh, boy.
FISCHER: It could destroy humanity.
CAMEROTA: Or maybe it destroys humanity.
DEAN: Also, can we just talk about at some point like what good things does this thing do because I'm sure there's a lot of it but --
JIMENEZ: I was going to say that with that metaphor of cars and cigarettes, well, so many people died before there were regulations with cars. So many people died because of a lack of regulations around cigarettes. And so, in this period, you wonder what damage is being done before these things are actually being put in place.
To Jessica's point, there are some uses for this to actually enhance our lives. So, how do you strike a balance between, all right, we know that this could drive us off a cliff, but we are driving, we could be driving.
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Yeah. We could be driving. Yeah, you're right. It's part of an enjoyment. It can enhance our lives.
CAMEROTA: That's not on balance good enough.
JIMENEZ: Exactly. Yeah, I guess not. I guess not.
FISCHER: The big debate is actually jobs. This is where we are trying to weigh the net benefit versus the net negative. So, one of the arguments for things like ChatGPT and artificial intelligence is that you're going to be able to displace a lot of very labor, intensive jobs and you're going to give opportunities to people to do much more exciting work.
For example, instead of working every day copy-pasting an excel spreadsheet, you're programming the bot to do it, and then you can do a lot more with your life.
The challenge, though, and a lot of lawmakers and the professor, Gary Marcus, put this out there today is, how can you guarantee we will actually be able to make up for the number of jobs lost? This is the things I think most Americans are going to be paying attention to. Once we start to see more jobs being eliminated due to artificial intelligence, that is when I think people are going to start to call members of Congress.
And by the way, Sam Altman had made some comments about this. He was not afraid to say what the risks were even though obviously this is his full-time job and his life's passion.
CAMEROTA: Really interesting. Sara, thank you so much for explaining all of that to us and scaring the living daylight.
Okay, up next, "On the Lookout," our reporters tell us what stories they are looking out for on the horizon.
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CAMEROTA: And we are back with our fantastic panel of reporters to tell us what stories they are keeping an eye on. We call this "One the Lookout." Okay, Sara, tell us.
FISCHER: So, we are in our third week of this massive writers' strike that is impacting the entire T.V. industry, especially the entertainment T.V. industry. This week, all the major networks are having presentations in New York to try to sell their shows, and they have no shows.
That is going to be something I continue to look out for, especially heading into the summer. If this does not get resolved, we might not have as fond of a T.V. season coming in to the fall.
CAMEROTA: Well, we are still on the air.
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Everybody can watch us at night. Don't you worry. You don't have to watch reruns. We are live.
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Okay, Danny.
FREEMAN: Actually, Sara brought it up in her last segment, I am looking ahead to the other repercussions of this Elon Musk interview. He went on CNBC earlier tonight. He was also on Twitter.
He said a lot of things about a lot of different topics, including -- he was pressed about basically some of the controversial things that he tweets sometimes and he basically said, I will say what I want, and if the consequences of that is losing money, so be it.
He also talked about the morality of working from home. I think we are going to be talking about that interview for a little while longer.
CAMEROTA: Okay, very interesting.
FREEMAN: Yeah.
CAMEROTA: Omar?
JIMENEZ: I am looking for the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, to sign a bill that was just passed in the legislature there that essentially limits no-knock warrants to situations where essentially them announcing themselves would create immediate threat of death or injury.
And that is important because a little over a year ago, 22-year-old Amir Locke was shot and killed by -- through the execution of a no- knock warrant. So, over this past year, people have been calling for the limiting of these uses. And while it is not exactly what protesters have been asking for and what the family had been asking for, which is a complete ban, it is pretty close. So, we are going to see. If the governor signs it, he likely will.
CAMEROTA: Okay. Thank you. Jessica?
DEAN: I am looking for, will George Santos be expelled from the House? Democrats filed today to force this vote to have him expelled from the House.
[23:55:00]
And remember, there are New York Republicans in the House that have called for him to go. However, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has stepped in and said instead he wants to refer this to the Ethics Committee, which would then require two-thirds.
So, they think that they can kind of get around. No one has to vote directly whether to expel or not. It is more, do you refer it to the Ethics Committee or not? But, you know, the walls continue to close in around Congressman Santos.
CAMEROTA: Okay, everybody, thank you very much for all of your reporting. Really great to have you guys here. Tomorrow, on "CNN This Morning," White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre gives an update on the debt ceiling negotiations and what President Biden is thinking at this point. That starts at 6:00 a.m. Eastern.
Thank you so much for watching us tonight. Our coverage continues now.
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