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CNN Tonight

January 6 Grand Jury Is Expected To Meet On Thursday; One GOP Candidate Reveals How He Is Getting Donations; Passengers Trapped In A Plane In Triple-Digit Heat; U.S. Soldier Illegally Crosses Demarcation Line. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 19, 2023 - 23:00   ET



LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: The community and really a nation took interest. What really happened? The chief says only Carlee Russell can tell the truth about what indeed happened to her.

Thank you for joining me, everyone, tonight on "CNN Primetime." I'm Laura Coates. "CNN Tonight" with Alisyn Camerota starts right now. Hey, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hi, Laura. Great to see you. Thanks so much.

COATES: Nice to see you.

CAMEROTA: All right, good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to "CNN Tonight."

The special counsel's grand jury is expected to meet tomorrow to continue their work investigating Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Legal experts are keeping their eyes peeled for a possible indictment. That would make Trump's third criminal indictment. Donald Trump's former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen is here with what Team Trump is doing tonight.

Plus, imagine being stocked on a tarmac in Las Vegas for hours in triple-digit heat with an infant. Tonight, I'll talk to parents who just endured that hell.

And the strange tale of the U.S. Army private who inexplicably made a run for it into North Korea. Tonight, I'll talk to a woman who watched him do it.


UNKNOWN: I thought is this guy doing it for a TikTok stunt or something really, really stupid like that but he didn't stop. There were South Korean and U.S. soldiers around us. I heard one of the American soldiers shout, get him, and then a bunch of them ran after him, but he was going so fast and we were so close to the border that he was gone by then.


CAMEROTA: Okay, we'll hear more from her later. But let's begin with "Tomorrow's News Tonight." The special counsel's grand jury is expected to meet just a few hours from now. Will President Trump be indicted for a third time?

Here to help us understand what's happening, we have Jennifer Rodgers, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, and John Miller, our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst. Great to have you, guys. Jennifer, how likely is it that former President Trump is indicted tomorrow?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't know if he'll be indicted tomorrow, but I don't think there's any reason to send him a target letter unless he'll be indicted and probably soon. So maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, although as John and I were just talking about, there are folks coming before the grand jury in the coming weeks. So, it could be two or three weeks out.

CAMEROTA: So, if there are -- you happen to know that there are people who are still going to be going before the grand jury, so that means that he would not be indicted before that, correct?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: There are witnesses who are under subpoena to that grand jury through mid- August. So, I doubt we'll see an indictment tomorrow, but the target letter which is really -- I mean, you may know better, but to me, it's unusual to send a target letter and a schedule for when you want to come in to talk to the grand jury kind of at the same time and the same -- and the same piece of paper.

CAMEROTA: So why? What does that tell you, that they're not ready to indict?

MILLER: Actually -- I mean, we're reading smoke signals here. But they're saying, yes, you're a target. Expect to be indicted is the clue. But also, if you're going to say something in your defense, we're availing you of that opportunity. But you have four days to tell us, which is interesting in that the grand jury is going to be going apparently for more than a couple of weeks.

CAMEROTA: Jen, let's talk about the crimes or the possible charges that were mentioned in that letter. You can put it into layman's terms for us. okay? So, the potential charges, conspiracy to commit an offense against or to defraud the United States, deprivation of rights, and tampering with a witness. So, what those tell us about the actual crimes that Donald Trump might have committed?

RODGERS: So, we still don't know, of course, but the conspiracy against the United States could be a wide-ranging conspiracy. This is the way that Special Counsel Mueller charged the Russian interference in 2016. It's basically interfering with actions of the United States government like elections.

So, this could be an attempt, a conspiracy, to overturn the 2020 election, and then they would just put in as evidence all these different pieces, the different strands of the conspiracy.

The deprivation of rights is likely depriving voters of their rights to have their votes counted. So that looks to the conspiracy as a whole also the fake electors scheme. You know, these people in those states where they were trying to overturn the vote.

And then the witness tampering is actually the section that they used in a lot of the January 6 cases that's interfering with an act of Congress. So that's January 6 storming, the Capitol charge.

CAMEROTA: Here are some of the other Trump allies that the Congressional House Committee on January 6 felt should be referred, okay, for criminal charges to the DOJ. So, some of those we know -- some of those we know less well, Kenneth Chesebro, who was an attorney who apparently was, I think, one of the architects of, I guess, the electors -- the fake electors plot. And so, do either of you have theories on if they will be getting target letters?

RODGERS: Well, we don't know. I mean, so far, reporting is that they haven't received them yet.


But I have a theory, we'll see if it bears fruit, that the special counsel wants to move forward quickly with charges against Donald Trump because time is short before the next election. And so, it may be that they want to charge him in fairly short order. And then they still may charge other people, but they might actually wait and do that in a separate proceeding.

CAMEROTA: You agree?

MILLER: Yeah. I mean, there is this pressure, which is there is this theoretical -- it's a guideline, it's not a law, but, you know, 60-day rule and they're supposed to say as far -- on the other side of that is they can.

CAMEROTA: Before a presidential election?

MILLER: Before any election, if you're going to charge somebody who is running or may be running. You know, you're trying to do the job of criminal justice while not -- while not affecting politics, but this is a case where they're all brushed together very closely.

CAMEROTA: Oh, yes, it is a tango.

MILLER: By the way, you've got to admire the beauty of this, which is we're talking about the theory of the Mueller investigation into Russian election interference in the first case, which he determined there was, which was ran by an office building off to the corner called the IRA, Internet Research Agency, which was run by a guy named Yevgeny Prigozhin, who has all kinds of interesting new problems not connected to that, but, you know, the cast of characters keep circling around.

CAMEROTA: This is a more tangled web than I was even referring --


-- to a minute ago. Thank you for pointing that out.

John, "The New York Times" is reporting about another potential charge, okay, against Donald Trump. Here's what they say. Subpoenas issued by Mr. Smith suggest that he has been scrutinizing Mr. Trump's political action committee, Save America PAC. It raised as much as $250 million, telling donors the money was needed to fight election fraud even as Mr. Trump had been told repeatedly that there was no election fraud to back up those claims. Oh, sorry, there was no evidence to back up those claims.

So, what crime would that be?

MILLER: That would be defrauding the people who are contributing to that fund.

CAMEROTA: Is that wire fraud?

RODGERS: It's just a wire fraud. I mean, lying to people to get their money is fraud. It's one of the basic things the prosecutors charge every day.

CAMEROTA: So, that is another -- I mean, that wasn't in the target letter.

RODGERS: No, but it's been in play. There have been reporting that there are people going in the grand jury to talk about that. That's something that's been on the radar for a long time, but we haven't really seen action on it. But it's a fairly simple charge if they have the evidence. So, we'll see what they come up with.

CAMEROTA: One last thing, sources tell CNN that Trump's attorneys are scrambling to figure out what evidence and witnesses Jack Smith, special counsel, has. How are they going to do that?

RODGERS: Well, listen, most defendants don't even know anything about a case until after it's charged. So, the fact that they know anything at all through the witnesses that, you know, they've been paying their legal fees and through reporting in the January 6 Committee work means they're way ahead of the curve.

They're going to have to do it like all defendants do it. They get their discovery, they canvas, they caucus and think about what to do and, you know, come up with their defenses then.

MILLER: They're going to want to know who's in there. I mean, yesterday, we were talking about who from his inner circle has testified in the grand jury, what did they say, and what's the difference between telling them the truth and being a cooperator.

And the difference is if you're going to be charged with something, take somebody from that list we just said, is there a sealed guilty plea with someone who has testified, pled guilty to something in return for leniency after the fact who -- I mean, this is what the Trump -- this is what the Trump inner circle needs to know. Is there somebody out there?

RODGERS: What did Mark Meadows do?

CAMEROTA: That's intriguing.


Thank you both very much. Really appreciate your expertise in all of this.

OK, so here with us tonight is Donald Trump's former attorney, Michael Cohen. He's also the author of "Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the U.S. Department of Justice Against His Critics." And Michael is also the host of the "Mea Culpa" podcast and a principal of Crisis-X. Michael, great to see you.


CAMEROTA: Okay. So, Michael, you heard what our legal experts and a lot of legal experts have been saying this week, and that is that they believe a third indictment is imminent for Donald Trump. So, you know what it's like to be a lawyer for Donald Trump. What is his team doing tonight? How is Donald Trump preparing for this possible indictment?

COHEN: Well, he has a little experience so far when it comes to indictments. Obviously, this isn't his first nor is it really his second. This will be his third. So, he certainly has a little experience.

Right now, I understand that Donald is at Bedminster, at the golf course, and there's a slew of the sycophantic followers and his acolytes that are surrounding him.

Right now, I think what they're doing is they're basically telling him that everything is going to be okay, we're going to get this thing under control just like we have everything else under control. They're really placating him. And the problem with that is that he's beginning to buy it. And, you know, once the indictments come through, then he's going to know all the charges that are being levied against him by Jack Smith.

CAMEROTA: And Michael, are you surprised that other people like we just put up on our graphic there, like Rudy Giuliani, have not gotten target letters?


COHEN: You know, the funny thing is every time something like this comes up, everybody starts to speculate. We all start putting in our two cents. Oh, my God, how could John Eastman -- for God's sake. So, Jeffrey Clark for that matter or Rudy "colludy," how is it possible that, you know, they haven't already received target letters? Well, the answer is, we don't know. We don't know how Jack Smith's case is being set up, we don't know exactly what's in the target letter itself, and we certainly don't know what the indictment will look like yet.

CAMEROTA: So, Michael, while all this is happening, you have a case against Donald Trump and the Trump Organization that, as I understand, a jury is being seated this week in this case in the Manhattan Supreme Court, and you're trying to get the Trump Organization to pay your legal fees for the past four years that add up to something like $1.3 million. Do I have this right?

COHEN: Well, not exactly. So, the answer is yes, the jury has been in panel. They already have been chosen. This has to do with legal fees that were incurred from 2016 through 2017 and parts of 2018, you know, when I was obviously acting at the direction of and for the benefit of the Trump Organization, including Donald J. Trump.

That, you know, case is going to trial on Monday. Four years. We follow that lawsuit in 2019, which should be a real indication to all of your viewers just how successful Donald has on become or really how astute he has become at the delay tactics when it comes to, you know, a legal case.


COHEN: And I believe that that's what right now the folks that are with him, Steve Bannon, I hear, is one of them, that they're all figuring out, how do we delay this, how do we delay this long enough that if, in fact, I should win, as John had just previously said, that he will look to pardon himself?

Well, that works in the federal cases, but it doesn't work in the state cases, meaning the Alvin Bragg New York District Attorney case. He cannot pardon himself. That's a state crime. And the same thing will hold true for the Georgia case, the Fani Willis Georgia case. That, too, is a state crime.

CAMEROTA: If he's indicted there. So, Michael, look, you know --

COHEN: If he's indicted.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. You know what it's like to be one of Donald Trump's attorneys. How hard is it for him to find good lawyers right now for all of these various cases?

COHEN: Yeah. Well, it's very difficult, and that's why he surrounded himself with what we would probably have referred to as the DT (ph). You know, these folks are not -- they are far from BAT (ph), let me put it to that way.

But there's a reason why that he can't get then. And the reason is, first of all, he's an incredibly difficult client. He doesn't listen to advice. He doesn't want your advice. He wants to tell you who to handle the case despite the fact that he has no legal degree, no legal training other than, of course, being involved in a multitude of legal cases over the course of his five decades of business. But that doesn't make for a lawyer.

On top of that, he clearly doesn't pay. That's obviously part of the reason why I'm taking him after four years and we're finally going be before a jury. This is a real serious problem. He doesn't want to listen to advice. He doesn't pay. So, in all fairness, there's a lawyer who needs him.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you spell it out there, Michael. How can these lawyers -- I mean, obviously, he does have actually some quality lawyers. We have -- you know, I think Elie Honig knows some of the lawyers that are working with him right now. How do they get paid? I mean, do they ask for him to give them cash up front? Obviously, they're going to be doing a lot of work for him.

COHEN: Yeah. If they are smart, they would get the entire fee up front in advance with a contingency that if he pulls out or they pull out for representation, that they get to keep the retainer. Otherwise, it's going to be a nightmare because look, his MO has always been the same.

You know, you don't pay a retainer, you fall behind in the bills, you keep the guy, you know, really tight, then you continue to fall behind the bills, you pay a little bit, and that's basically the game that he's been playing for, like I said, over five decades.

CAMEROTA: Michael, thank you very much for your perspective. Always interesting to get it. We'll obviously be watching what happens next week and we'll be watching what happens with your case as well.

COHEN: Yeah. Let's not forget also that tomorrow, there's actually a hearing in the Donald Trump versus Michael Cohen, the $500 million case that he brought against me, which is obviously a real -- it's a real issue, you know, for him.


But we'll talk about that at another time, you know, when we have more time to get into it. It's going to be interesting, especially after I get into that position.

CAMEROTA: We'll be watching for that, too, Michael. As you point out, there's a lot of stuff swirling. Thanks so much for your time.

COHEN: Good to see you.

CAMEROTA: Okay, up next, the interesting strategy that one Republican presidential candidate is using to get donations.


CAMEROTA: So, what will happen tomorrow when the special counsel's grand jury meets in the ongoing investigation of Donald Trump? Well, rival Chris Christie has a prediction about what another indictment would mean for Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: If there are additional indictments to come, this is a lot of weight for anybody to be carrying around their neck, as a general election candidate for president of the United States or as a primary candidate.


And I think long term, these charges are a real problem for Donald Trump because -- not the charges, Wolf. Because of the conduct. The conduct is the problem.


CAMEROTA: With us to discuss this and what the rest of the GOP field is doing to get attention, we have former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan, CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings, and CNN political analyst Coleman Hughes. Great to have all of you, guys, here.

Okay, so, Scott, do you agree with Governor Christie that in the short term, these indictments have allowed Donald Trump to fundraise and get a lot of attention and say that he's being, you know, persecuted, but in the long term, they'll hurt him?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDNET TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah, I agree with most of that analysis, actually. I mean, these previous indictments that he's had have consolidated political support. They've caused a rallying around Donald Trump. I assume that's what will happen. We don't know.

I mean -- by the way, we don't know what's in these indictments if they come. We don't know what the evidence is. I mean, there could be some bad stuff in there that we don't know about yet, which could be damaging.

But there are -- obviously, half the Republican Party wants to do Trump again. And so, they see all of this, as Trump says, as validation that the deep state and the left, they're trying to stop me. This is about you. It's not about me. That this is reinforcing to the people who love him.

But on the general election, there's no question this is an albatross around his neck and it has been an albatross around the Republican Party's neck. Look what happened in the midterm. Some of that had to do with Trump handpicking those Senate candidates and his views and actions around January 6th. So, I tend to agree with the analysis.

CAMEROTA: Do either of you see it differently? The short-term gain, these indictments, long-term bad?

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER GEORGIA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: This is a short-term sugar high, another short-term sugar high. But this makes the math problem even tougher, right? I mean, we can -- we can talk around circles and act like the primary is the most important election, but it's not, it's the general, and this just makes it even tougher to win the general. There's not a single person in the middle which, by the way, you need to win the middle if you're going to win the White House. There's not a single person in the middle who goes, oh, he got indicted, I think I'm going to change my mind and not vote for Joe Biden, I'm going to vote for Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about what some of the rest of the GOP field is doing. So, the North Dakota governor, Doug Burgum, is doing something interesting in terms of fundraising. He announced today that he has met the fundraising requirement to make the debate stage next month. So, the first GOP debate is happening next month. They have to have a polling benchmark that they have to hit as well as the fundraising. He has hit the fundraising.


CAMEROTA: And he has done it using an interesting approach. If you give his campaign, Coleman, $1, he will give you a $20 gift card. I'm not sure how that math works, but isn't that called buying your support?

HUGHES: It sounds like $19 to me. Look --


-- you could say --- you could say it's degrading, and I get that. On the other hand, I think part of the lesson of candidates like, you know, RFK, candidates like Bernie Sanders, Vivek Ramaswamy, who has pledged not to take Super PAC money, is that there's a substantial number of voters out there that are hungry for candidates that can credibly say, I'm not taking money from industry, I'm not bought by Big Pharma, I'm not bought by big oil.

So, candidates are coming up with these clever and somewhat weird ways to get money, but there's a lot of voters out there that are thinking to themselves.

Given a choice between the candidate that's bought by Big Pharma and the candidate that's bought with -- like this weird sort of gift card thing, I'll take the latter.

CAMEROTA: Because he's actually not being bought. He's buying the voters, the support. Here's how he explains it. Let me play for you how he explains why that math and that approach works.


GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): When you're trying to acquire customers, you know, you put a great product out there and then you say, hey, the product, but we're going to offer it for X price. It's a sale price. People buy, you get repeat customers.

We know that the people that donate to us now are going to -- may continue to donate because what they see, they're going to like and they're going to continue to support us. And so, this is -- this is about a smart strategy. It's about an entrepreneur with a business attitude. This is what we need.


CAMEROTA: What do you think?

JENNINGS: Oh, look, he's putting the best possible face on trying to accommodate these RNC rules. That ultimately, I think, is going to cost somebody 100-grand to do all this. He's superrich guy. He's financing his own campaign. He's a multimillionaire.

So, we now know what it's worth to be at the Republican debate, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars, and that's probably true because how else would you get the kind of attention that you would need in order to break out in this field?

So, I don't love it. I do think it's degrading. I don't love the rules that have been set up around these debates. But, you know, the basketball rim is 10 feet high. That's what you got to shoot on.

CAMEROTA: What do you think, lieutenant colonel?

DUNCAN: Well, the more I hear about Governor Burgum, the more I'm impressed, the more I understand his business background as entrepreneur. This is super creative and good for him. Right? If it's well within the rules, good for him. He's going to try to get this name ID thing built up. But I will say it's much better than lying to get support like Donald Trump is doing.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at the polls in New Hampshire. So, here's the latest poll. This is done by the University of New Hampshire. We can see where the whole field is right now. So, it's interesting. Donald Trump is still at the top. But he has 37% percent of Republican voters.


So, that means, Coleman, that, you know, 63% are looking around elsewhere.


CAMEROTA: That's interesting and that's a different way to see this than we usually see. You know, people usually describe him as the faraway frontrunner. But in New Hampshire, the math is different.

HUGHES: Yeah. Well, you know, I think he's not in a strong bargaining position as he was even a year ago partly because of the indictments, partly because people see how the Trump-endorsed candidates didn't do well in the midterms.

So, you know, there are signs of his, you know, flagging popularity among the GOP. And I think we, you know, we -- that said, you always have to add the caveat. It's still very early days. If you go back to 2003, this time in that campaign, or 2007, the front runner at this time was not who ended up winning. So, it's still early days.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. DeSantis is number two and Tim Scott is number three.

JENNINGS: Yeah. You know what's amazing about that chart is that 37% sounds like a low number until you realize that it's more than enough to win. And that's what's protecting him. Yeah, there are a lot of Republicans that don't want to do it again, but the fragmentation.

What I'm looking for coming out of Iowa is the gulf between two and three. If somebody -- if Trump wins or somebody gets close or somebody beats Trump, what's the next person down? Because the quicker this thing collapses into a two-person race, that's really the only scenario that would, I think, frighten Donald Trump's campaign team.

If this thing stays multi-candidate for three or four states, it's hugely protective for him, as you can see from the New Hampshire numbers.

CAMEROTA: What interests you?

DUNCAN: The encouraging part for me is two-thirds of Republicans in New Hampshire want to move forward. They don't want to talk about 2020. They want somebody different than Donald Trump.

I think Tim Scott shows up in this as a unique spot, right? He's probably the most well-rounded Republican candidate in this. He's got a lot going on, and he's not angry. He's conservative, but not angry, and I think that's going to play out well for him.

CAMEROTA: And he's about to get $40 million in terms of ads from his pack.

DUNCAN: That, too.

JENNINGS: And this is going to really help him. Not a lot of people know Tim Scott. Maybe they've only just heard a little bit about him. He's got the most inspiring story in the field. This kind of an ad campaign for his kind of a candidacy, he's not terribly well-defined among a lot of folks. I think you're going to see it will have a big impact on him.

CAMEROTA: You know what, that reminds me -- let me show you the favorability poll because here's the New Hampshire. Among likely GOP primary voters, he's number one. Tim Scott is the most favorable -- is seen as the most favorable candidate with 46%. So, somehow, they already have that message.

JENNINGS: Well, there's still a lot of voters who just -- nationally who don't know Tim Scott. I'm just -- an ad campaign like what they're plotting, to know Tim Scott is to love Tim Scott. If you're a Republican, he has very low un-faves as well. He's going to be a -- he's going to be a great boon.

DUNCAN: Think about this scenario. Just imagine Donald Trump melts away into the sunset. You got Tim Scott and Chris Sununu on the ticket. I could see us absolutely running laps around Joe Biden.

CAMEROTA: Coleman?

HUGHES: So, we got the first debate coming up soon, and I think one thing we might notice is there are certain -- certain of these candidates are more impressive in a kind of combative debate format. Personally, I would list Ramaswamy, DeSantis, and Christie in terms of people that are just entertaining in debate form.

So, when we see the debates happening, we might see those people having a bump in the numbers relative to the less entertaining on camera candidates.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting. Thank you for the analysis. Great to see you, guys.

So, an American soldier was on a tour of the DMZ in South Korea when all of a sudden, he sprinted into North Korea. Next, I'll speak with the woman who was on that tour who watched him do it.




CAMEROTA: A deadly heat wave is baking millions of Americans right now. More than 1,500 record high temperatures have been broken this month. So just imagine being stuck on a plane on the tarmac for hours in Las Vegas in triple digit heat with a one-year-old baby. That's what happened to my next guests as they were trying to get home from a family reunion on Monday.

Joining me now is Tashina and Janssen Robinson. Guys, thank you so much for being here. Your ordeal sounds so difficult. So Tashina, you were flying from Las Vegas to Atlanta on Monday. Your flight was delayed three hours. You were forced to wait on the plane in Las Vegas. Why couldn't they have the air conditioning on? It was triple degree, it was like 110 that day or 111 in Las Vegas. Did they tell you why it wasn't air conditioned?

TASHINA ROBINSON, PASSENGER ON DELTA FLIGHT WHERE PEOPLE FAINTED FROM HEAT: It was something on and it was something running. We were at the front of the plane in comfort. And the back of the plane was much hotter than the front. And as some of the passengers was -- when we were getting up the plane, we were, like, it's much cooler up here. I've been in the back of a plane before and it is always hotter in the back of the plane.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. And so --


CAMEROTA: Yeah, go ahead, Jansen. What -- yeah, you were on for three hours. What was the situation on the plane? What was happening? What were they telling you?

J. ROBINSON: Ideally, you're supposed to get on the plane, leave the bridge, and within minutes be in the air.


J. ROBINSON: The cabin can't cool as efficient on the ground as it is in the air. But something happened that was off from the beginning. They didn't have enough flight attendance. They had to ask for people to volunteer. I mean, ask for flight attendants that were in the airport to volunteer to come to our flight.


And that ran well over our departure time. So, it ended up being we lost our place in line, I think, to take off, which put us on the tarmac for hours.

CAMEROTA: And so, what -- I mean, for the people who were in the back of the plane, what was -- were people getting sick? What was happening?

J. ROBINSON: Oh, yeah.

T. ROBINSON: We -- you know, because, like I said, we were at the front of the plane, but then we saw one of the flight attendants, she ran to the front and jumped on a phone, she started talking to the pilot, we guess, and all of a sudden, you know, she said someone was sick in the back and then it was a couple people, and they had to bring them, you know, off the plane.

But during that process, when they were bringing them to the front, they had to sit them down because they could barely walk like they were --

J. ROBINSON: Yeah. I mean, we were -- we were already hours into waiting to take off. The captain kept us informed.


J. ROBINSON: He would say, you know, we are five, you know, behind, five planes behind before takeoff. But by that time, the cabin was pretty warm. I imagine it was much hotter in the back. People were restless.


J. ROBINSON: And we got word that people got sick. There was a medical emergency who came on and said, you know, at this point, we're going to go ahead and go back to the gate and deplane because that's the procedure.


J. ROBINSON: So, at that point, we just knew we weren't going home anytime soon.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my God. T. ROBINSON: And when they got them to the front of the plane and they finally let them off, they said that anyone that wants -- if you want to get off the plane, you can go ahead and get off the plane, but you will not be able to get back on, and the next flight doesn't leave until Friday.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.

T. ROBINSON: We were looking at each other like, no, we're ready to go home, you know, and we're just going to have to wait. But then that turned into -- into -- okay, we're letting you guys off.



CAMEROTA: I mean, that's too much of a catch. To say, yeah, everybody's sweltering, people are getting sick, but you're not going to get home until the end of the week, that's crazy.

I want to read what Delta has to say. They apologize in a statement. They said we apologize for the experience our customers had on flight 555 from Las Vegas to Atlanta on July 17th, which ultimately resulted in a flight cancellation. Delta teams are looking into the circumstances that led to uncomfortable temperatures inside the cabin and we appreciate the efforts of our people and the first responders at Harry Reid International.

So, quickly, guys, I'm almost out of time, how was the baby and did you get any compensation from Delta?

T. ROBINSON: We got 200 miles.

J. ROBINSON: I think it was 20,000.

T. ROBINSON: Twenty thousand miles. Twenty thousand miles.

J. ROBINSON: Sky miles.

T. ROBINSON: With $60 food vouchers?

J. ROBINSON: They just sent an email. They're going to refund us for the flight.


J. ROBINSON: They did put us in a hotel. Baby Janssen is doing very well. He took it like a champ.

T. ROBINSON: But they could have told us that earlier so we could have enjoyed the hotel a little bit longer --


T. ROBINSON: -- than waiting till nine o'clock. But we wanted to add to that that the staff on the flight, they did really well. They did their job. You know, we don't want to bash them or anything like that. It's just the timeframe was just too long and out of our control.

J. ROBINSON: Just can't stay in that heat for too long.

CAMEROTA: Of course. Of course, it's inhumane. Well, Janssen and Tashina, thank you very much for the story. Glad you guys -- glad the baby is okay.

J. ROBINSON: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Glad you got off the plane. Great talking to you.

T. ROBINSON: Thank you. Thank you so much.

J. ROBINSON: Thank you.

T. ROBINSON: Have a nice night.

CAMEROTA: You, too. Okay next, the strange tale of the U.S. Army private who suddenly made a run for it into North Korea. I'll talk to a woman who saw it happen.




CAMEROTA: We have new details about the U.S. soldier who ran across the border into North Korea. This is 23-year-old Travis King. You're going to be able to see him. He's in the black T-shirt and cap standing among tourists shortly before bolting passed the DMZ into enemy territory in Kim Jong-un's government.

Joining me now is Sarah Leslie, a tourist from New Zealand who was on that same tour as Travis King. Sarah, thanks so much for being here. I know that you've said you did not see anything unusual about Travis King's behavior during the tour. So, what happened when you got to the DMZ?

SARAH LESLIE, WITNESSED TRAVIS KING CROSS NORTH KOREA BORDER: So, we had been on an all-day tour which starts outside the DMZ. So, the DMZ is obviously the four-kilometer strip that goes east to west across the Peninsula between the two Koreas. And we had spent the morning outside the DMZ and looking at some sites inside the DMZ. So, we had a look at a tunnel that the North Koreans had dug under the border --


LESLIE: -- which was discovered by the South Koreans in the 1970s. We looked at that. We've also been up to a high vantage point and looked down.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but how was he acting? I mean, like, what was he doing or it was the first time that you saw anything strange when he started running? LESLIE: Yeah, so that's definitely the first time I saw anything strange. I had noticed who he -- you know, I recognized him. Obviously, I didn't know his name or that he was a soldier or anything like that, but there were 40 or so people on the tour, so you sort of recognize people by sight on the second or third time you saw them.


I had noticed that he seemed to be alone and wasn't talking to many other people. I didn't think that was really strange because you're not -- you're obviously not watching one person all the time.


LESLIE: And the other thing I noticed about him is that he bought a souvenir hat at one of the souvenir stores.

CAMEROTA: And so, when he bolted from the group and ran across the border, what happened? How did everyone react? And did you see what happened to him on the other side?

LESLIE: So -- no, I didn't. Everybody was just taking photos and not really doing a lot. We were waiting for further instructions from the American soldiers who were running the tour. I suddenly noticed him running really fast into my line of vision towards the North Korean side. I initially thought it was some kind of TikTok stunt, and I thought that was incredibly stupid.

And then about a second after, I noticed one of the American soldiers yelled, stop that guy! And all the rest of the American soldiers and the South Korean soldiers who were escorting us ran after him. By that stage, he was going so fast. We were so close to the border. He disappeared out of sight.

There are buildings right on the border that are shared between North and South Korea, the blue ones in the photo, and he ran between two of those. So, he was over pretty quickly. I didn't see what happened on the outside. He was out of my line of sight very quickly.

CAMEROTA: I don't know if you've had a chance to read the reports about him, but he's a private in the army. He had faced assault charges in South Korea. He was scheduled to be removed from the military when he landed back in Texas as he was scheduled this week. Does any of it make any more sense to you now that you've heard his background?

LESLIE: Not really. I was very surprised to see that he was a soldier and I -- from reading the reports, I inferred that he had been serving in Korea at the time. So, I would have expected he would have known a bit more about North Korea and the situation there than perhaps the ordinary person.

And to me that made it all the more surprising, that he would want to go to a place like that, you know, from his knowledge and also from everything we had been told on the tour. When I read that he was (INAUDIBLE) disciplinary action back in New Zealand -- sorry, back in the U.S., that didn't really make any much more sense to me. You know, I would (INAUDIBLE) in an American prison for a long time than head in Korea.

CAMEROTA: Yeah. Well, Sarah Leslie, thank you very much for giving us your eyewitness account. You're right, it's very mystifying, what happened. Obviously, there's a lot more to this story. We really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you. And we'll be right back.




CAMEROTA: All eyes on the special counsel's January 6th grand jury that will meet tomorrow. Signs suggest that Donald Trump could be criminally indicted for efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss. This would be his third criminal indictment.

Here to talk about "Tomorrow's News Tonight," anchor and bestselling author, my pal, Jake Tapper, out with his new book, "All the Demons Are Here," a thriller. Jake, great to see you.


CAMEROTA: All right. What should we be watching for tomorrow with this grand jury meeting?

TAPPER: Well, I don't think that we're going to have an appearance by Mr. Trump, even though that was in the letter, the target letter he received Sunday, giving him until Thursday to appear before the grand jury to make his case.

And then I guess the only question is, what will come? As you might recall, the last federal grand jury news came on a Thursday night at about 7:01 p.m. and that was, I think, from Mr. Trump, it was shared, that he had been told to show up at a certain place at a certain time for his arraignment and arrest.

So, I think it is quite possible that that is what will happen Thursday. I don't know that that's what's going to happen. It's all in a shroud of mystery. Donald Trump is the one who usually brings us the news. But that is what could happen.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk about your fabulous new book, "All the Demons Are Here." So, it's set in the 1970s which, of course, allows you to explore this very colorful era. I imagine it was fertile ground for fiction. Tell me how fun was it to research and write this book.

TAPPER: So, I was eight years old in 1977 when this book takes place. I don't remember most of the stuff that I write about. I discovered it when I was researching the book. But man, what a wild time.

I mean, I remember "Star Wars" coming out, I remember disco vaguely, and I remember Elvis dying. But the stuff that was going on just in this one year, from superstar daredevil Evel Knievel literally jumping sharks, this is like eight months before Fonzie did it, to Jimmy Carter being inaugurated, to the Nixon/Frost interviews, to the New York City blackout, to the son of Sam Murders and the rise of tabloid journalism in New York City, to the death of Elvis Presley, to UFO sightings from coast to coast, to cult membership rising, it was a wild time.

And it also was a time -- you know, they say history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes. There's a lot of rhyming. There's a lot of rhyming, especially when it came to the distrust and disillusionment.

So many Americans felt post-Watergate, post-Vietnam, and also suspicion of the government, suspicion that the government wasn't telling them everything they needed to know when it came to this -- ultimately ended up being fake cancer cure called Laetrile.


That reminded me a lot of a lot of the distrust we heard of the CDC during all the COVID epidemic. So, it was really a lot of fun as an era to play with. And also, there's a lot of rhyming.

CAMEROTA: I'm sure people always ask you, how can you have a demanding career and be the father of two teenagers and crank out bestselling books? So, what are your writing secrets?

TAPPER: So, the secret is just when I have a writing situation, when I have a writing project, I'm just very focused. The first thing I do is I'm an architect. George R.R. Martin says writers are either architects or gardeners. Gardeners just kind of go and see what flourishes. Architects have a structure. They set it all up.

I'm an architect. I definitely set it all up, do, an outline, then I break it into chapters, and I know what my assignment is. My next chapter, this has to happen. The chapter after that, this has to happen.

And then I just allot 15 minutes a day minimum to write. Even if I don't have an idea, even if I have writer's block, even if I'm struggling, 15 minutes a day. Even if I'm really busy, 15 minutes a day. At the end of the week, that's an hour, 45.

When people ask me about being a writer, I say it's really just this simple. Writers write. You have to sit down and do it. Writers write. I wanted to be a novelist. I wrote a novel in my 20s. That didn't get published, but I got an agent.

And then 20 years passed before I gave my -- you know, I gave it another shot writing fiction. Now, I did nonfiction in there, I did journalism in there, but it was 20 years passed between one effort at fiction and the next one. So, if you don't sit down and write, you know, a generation will pass you.

(LAUGHTER) CAMEROTA: I didn't know that, Jake. That is really a good testament to your tenacity and a good lesson for everybody. The book, again, is "All the Demons Are Here." It's a fantastic read. Jake, thanks so much for talking. Great to see you.

TAPPER: Thanks, Alisyn. It's always -- it's always lovely to spend time with you. Next time, hopefully, in person.

CAMEROTA: That would be lovely. Thanks so much, Jake. Thanks for watching, everybody. Our coverage continues now.