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CNN Tonight

Trump Is Waiting To See If He Will Be Indicted; RFK, Jr. Denies Making Antisemitic Comments; FL Has Controversial New Standards For Teaching Black History; Sara Sidner Interviews Tupac Shakur's Stepbrother. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired July 20, 2023 - 23:00   ET




LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you all so much for joining me tonight on "CNN PRIMETIME." I'm Laura Coates. CNN TONIGHT starts right now with the fabulous Sara Sidner. Hey, Sara.


COATES: Have a great one. Looking forward to your interview.

SIDNER: Me, too. I can't wait to share that with everyone. All right. Thank you, Laura.

Good evening, everyone. I am Sara Sidner. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.

Former President Donald Trump predicted he was going to be in the criminal investigation into election interference. Tonight, he is waiting to see if he will be indicted. The criminal investigation into efforts to overturn Joe Biden's election victory has been going on for months. The deadline for former President Donald Trump to respond to the DOJ's target letter is less than an hour away. That's "Tomorrow's News Tonight."

Also, coming up, we have a stunning news for you. New developments in a murder case that has gone unsolved for almost 30 years. Who killed Tupac Shakur? The hip-hop star died in a drive-by shooting in 1996 as he was leaving a Mike Tyson fight in Las Vegas. And ever since, the mystery has grown. Now, police have searched the home of the wife of a self-proclaimed witness to that shooting. What did they find? Tonight, I'll talk exclusively to a member of Tupac's family.

And Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. grilled by his fellow Democrats today on his past vaccine comments. He told Congress he's not anti-vaccine despite his own words that say otherwise.


ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've never been on any vaccine. Everybody in this room probably believes that I have been, because that's the propelling narrative. Antisemitism, racism, these are the most appalling disgusting pejoratives and they are applied to me to silence me.


SIDNER: All right, let's listen to what Kennedy said in his own words just last week in comics exclusively reported by the "New York Post."


KENNEDY: COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese. And, but, you don't know if it's deliberately targeted or not.


SIDNER: All right, let's begin there with Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. He has a long history of spreading vaccine and misinformation.

Yet in a House hearing today, he claimed that he never has been anti- vaccine, racist or antisemitic, and things got heated when Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz called him on his comments last year suggesting Anne Frank was in a better situation hiding from the Nazis during the holocaust than people in the U.S. during the COVID-19 pandemic.


REP. DEBORAH WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): In discussing COVID public health measures, you made light of the genocide against Jewish people by saying, and I quote, "even Hitler's Germany, you could cross the Alps to Switzerland. You could hide in an attic like Anne Frank did." Mr. Kennedy, do you think it was easy for Jewish people to escape systematic slaughter of Nazis? Yes or no?

KENNEDY: Absolutely not.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Do you think it was just as hard to wear a mask during COVID as it was to hide under floorboards or false walls so you weren't murdered or dragged to a concentration camp?

KENNEDY: Of course not. That's ridiculous.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Okay. That's a comparison that you made.

KENNEDY: I did not make that comparison.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Were the measures taken to contain the spread and fatalities related to COVID in any way at all comparable to the murder of six million Jews? Yes or no?

KENNEDY: Absolutely not.


SIDNER: Joining me now, Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Thank you so much for coming on the program. I want to start with this. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: It is wonderful to see you. I want to start with this. RFK, Jr. may deny he made that comparison, but let's go to the tape.


KENNEDY: Even in Hitler's Germany, you could -- you could cross the Alps into Switzerland. You can hide in an attic like Anne Frank did. Today, the mechanisms are being put in place. I will make it so none of us can run and none of us can hide.


SIDNER: Why do you think that he's backtracking when he's clearly on record with these dangerous conspiracies?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, it's worse than that, Sara. He's not backtracking. He lied under oath in front of congressional committee today. I mean, when you have your statements on video, it is always bizarre to me when someone denies that they've said something that we can present them with the evidence that they said it.


And I think that he is being called to account for the outrageousness of his holocaust and Nazi comparisons when it comes to COVID-19. And now, he's engaged in horrific, you know, repeated antisemitic tropes and now Chinese tropes as well just last week. I mean, it is just a constant barrage of antisemitism and holocaust and Nazi references with RFK, Jr.

And, you know, the Republicans decided to have him as a witness even though he has no expertise. And beyond that, his disinformation and misinformation are dangerous to people. To give someone like that a platform is dangerous.

SIDNER: Let me ask you this, because there are always people on the right and the left that sometimes say, hey, we're being censored, and RFK, Jr. claims he's being censored. Let me let you listen to this.


KENNEDY: The First Amendment was not written for easy speech. It was written for the speech that nobody likes you for.


SIDNER: All right, so, he's sorts of raising the question and it's thorny, but whether or not misinformation and disinformation is protected free speech, how do you see it?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, there's a difference. He has the right in America to say anything that he wants, that -- you know -- but the First Amendment does have restrictions. The Supreme Court has ruled that. The fire -- not shouting fire in a crowded theater was cited by my colleague, Congresswoman Sanchez, today.

But you don't have the right to say what you want to say and given a platform to amplify your misinformation and disinformation. Congressional testimony, we're supposed to be hearing from people who actually have direct knowledge about issues, who are going to bring about information to us to help us make decisions.

What RFK, Jr. is, is a conspiracy theorist who spews antisemitic and racist views that are -- that have no basis in evidence or fact. And the Republicans only had him because they wanted to highlight him because he happens to be trying to run against President Biden, and they know that he is a loony conspiracy theorist and they wanted to use a so-called Democrat to espouse what they believe is the conspiracy of COVID. It's so dangerous. It's breathtaking.

SIDNER: Here is one of the arguments that he makes and that others who support him make. It isn't just Republicans, but there are also Democrats that seem to be quite interested in his message. Polling shows support in a run for the presidency. Why do you think that is?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Because his last name is Kennedy. And Joe Biden, I'm confident, is going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party once again. He has done a remarkable job as president of the United States. We've had the most sweeping legislation that has passed into law.

I was proud to support the Inflation Reduction Act, the infrastructure legislation, the Chips and Science Act. We've had more jobs created by this president than any in modern times in the first term. And Joe Biden will be rewarded for those accomplishments.

SIDNER: Congresswoman Schultz, let me just quickly ask you just to follow because you said that, you know, it's his name recognition that has a lot of people interested. But he has been talking like this for a really long time and there are people who are really concerned about the vaccine and how quickly it came into use and, you know, whether or not there's any sort of long-term effect.

I know that scientists have looked at that and said, look, this is safe and effective. But what do you say to those people who look at his record and they believe what he's saying and they support him?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, I mean, it's the United States of America and people can support who they want. But what we should -- if we're really -- if the Republicans are really concerned about hearing from someone who actually knows something about the risks, so-called risks of the COVID-19 vaccine, then they should have had an epidemiologist and public health experts testing and testifying in front of us, not someone who spews his information with no basis in fact.

And remember, what he has been saying, particularly last week, wasn't about the vaccine. What he spewed last week was that the COVID-19 virus was bioengineered to go after Blacks and Caucasians and to spare Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people. That wasn't about the vaccine. That was about the virus.

[23:09:51] So, this guy is a conspiracy theorist loon who just spews horrific, unproven, unscientific fact, unscientific information as if it's fact and then denies when questioned under oath that he said it even with the receipts on video and in audio recordings because it's uncomfortable to be called on your conspiracy theories when they're outrageous and offensive and antisemitic and violent.

SIDNER: Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I appreciate you.


SIDNER: All right, now, I want bring in CNN's senior political commentator Scott Jennings, and Jay Michaelson, a columnist for "Rolling Stone" and rabbi.

All right, I do have to ask this first, the very simple question. Is what RFK is saying antisemitic?

JAY MICHAELSON, RABBI, COLUMNIST FOR ROLLING STONE: So, in his earlier statement that -- that the virus was targeted in a certain way, of course, this is a thousand-year-old antisemitic theme, that Jews simultaneously cause plagues, spread plagues, and are immune from plagues.

And, you know, as I said in a column I wrote for CNN, when you play the sort of conspiracy theory poker game, eventually you're going to draw a Jewish card because this is the uber conspiracy. It's a conspiracy that underlies all of these other conspiracies. Whether it's QAnon or, you know, the railing against Soros or the elites in Hollywood, these are all the same elites.

And RFK, Jr. knows this. He had to have known this. And it's amazing. You know, he conflated in the testimony, saying, well, this was based on the study by the Cleveland Clinic. The Cleveland Clinic had a scientific study. It didn't say it was targeted. I mean, it rains more in Seattle than it does in Phoenix, but that doesn't mean that there's a Jewish conspiracy to cause the rain to happen in Washington.

SIDNER: Right.

MICHAELSON: And for him to just get out there -- I mean, I admire his chutzpah, to use a Jewish term. You know, his nerve to just say these outrageous things and boldly contradict his own testimony, as Congresswoman Debra Wasserman Schultz just showed.

But it's outrageous that there is, I think, perhaps a double standard that when somebody who spouts antisemitism is useful to a party in power, they get a platform. And when someone says something which may or may not maybe sort of antisemitic, thinking, you know, the congresswoman from last week, you know, they get censured.

So, this is a shocking display, I think, of -- I can't think of someone who has espoused someone such antisemitic ideas getting such this kind of a platform. But I do have some advice as a rabbi. If you're ever thinking about whether it's a good idea to make a holocaust analogy, that X or Y or Z is bad for the holocaust, here's the rabbinic advice, don't make that analogy.

We just -- there are certain things that are beyond comparison. And it is absolutely offensive. Whether it's about -- I've heard it about gun control, I've heard it about COVID, I've heard it from people on the right and the left, all the time, you hear it just constantly, and it is offensive every time it happens.

SIDNER: Scott, you made a face and don't think I didn't notice it.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDNET TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah, well, I fully agree with you, antisemitism has no place in our politics, and I don't like it when it's platformed. But did you also catch the news last week of the antisemitism going on in the fringe progressive caucus in the House democratic conference?

This is a pervasive problem among conspiracy theorists, but it does exist on the American left. And you do have and have had repeated episodes of antisemitism coming out of a handful of House Democrats, and they are repeatedly platformed and exalted and given positions of leadership.

MICHAELSON: Scott, (INAUDIBLE) comparison between a statement, which I think was out of line, saying Israel is a racist state. That is a political statement. It is not one that I agree with. I think it's extreme. I've said it again in the column for CNN why I think that's incorrect.

SIDNER: Let's just be clear, Congresswoman Jay Paul said this. She then -- eventually, she apologized for it not long after.

MICHAELSON: And to be clear, RFK, Jr. has claimed he has apologized also and claimed he has walked it back. But to compare a sort of extreme political statement with, again, a thousand-year-old claim that Jews somehow engineered plagues to kill non-Jews, that's a crazy false equivalence. They're totally different.

JENNINGS: No, your statement was you had never heard of antisemitism being platformed like this in the U.S. Congress. It's platformed every day in the democrat conference.

MICHAELSON: That's only if you agree that a statement about Israel which, again, I'm not agreeing with that statement or endorsing it, is antisemitic. It's a political statement.

And to say that that's equivalent to some guy saying that, you know -- I mean -- and the outrageous nerve. You know, there's an Orthodox Jewish community near New York City with friends of mine who are part of it. That was one of the early COVID centers. And I know people who died from that community.

And so, for this guy to get on, you know, to get a platform after saying that like the Jews are immune and that this was targeted and it's some sort of a bioweapon, I'm sorry, but to compare that to one statement saying Israel is a racist state, that's no comparison.

JENNINGS: It's not one statement. That corner of the party makes repeated statements, but sorry.

SIDNER: Gentlemen, let's not forget that China was also brought into this, saying that Chinese and many Chinese people died in this, and that can be seen as xenophobic, Asian-American hate. So, that is also a part of this conversation.

I do want to ask you using another Jewish word. Do you think that the Republicans are doing it to make Joe Biden (INAUDIBLE)?



JENNINGS: Sure. I mean, they're doing it to troll Joe Biden. And as a Republican, I don't like being affiliated with RFK. Jr. Look, I'm glad Democrats have all of a sudden realized he is a crank and a crackpot and a conspiracy theorist, but I'm old enough to remember when your employer platformed his crazy ideas about the 2004 election being stolen. He has been a first-class conspiracy theorist and nut for a long time. And now, Democrats are upset about it today because he's running against Joe Biden. But this man was coddled in the fever swamps of the left for years. And now, it's convenient to attack him. But Republicans, I think, and I want to be consistent, I wasn't for RFK early on conspiracy and I ain't for RFK conspiracy today, I'm glad Democrats finally got there.

SIDNER: I want to ask you, Scott, just quickly because I'm going to get in trouble now for going long. But why do you think he's getting the numbers he's getting? For either of you, 17% right now in the polls. And if you go down, all you have to do is look at his social media. You don't have to go back to look at some of the things he said. You look at his social media and you know exactly what he stands for.

JENNINGS: A couple things. Number one, I do think there's actually a segment of the American left that's anti-vax. There's also a segment of the American right. But I do think that population exists in both parties. But mostly, I just think it is dissatisfaction with Biden.

There are Democrats who don't want him to seek reelection. You can see it in any poll. And whether it's him or someone else, they're looking for an off-ramp. And he's going to get those votes. It won't be enough to topple Biden, but those people exist.

MICHAELSON: I think that's right. I think -- look, there is also, I think, a lesson here for Democrats, who I don't think are paying attention to the resentment that exists in the center.

I don't really care about the hardcore right in terms of electoral politics, but in the center around COVID and around COVID policies, there are some misconceptions that are now floating around that a lot of these policies didn't do anything.

Whereas if you compare the actual death rates in let's say Florida compared to New York or California, they did a lot. Hundreds of thousands at least of lives were saved by some of the measures which people did not like.

But Democrats need to take this issue on squarely. They should not sweep this under the rug. And I do think that RFK, Jr., for all of his deep flaws, is speaking to a certain suspicion and a certain discontentment with that period in American history. And the Democrats should own it and should take it, actually take it on because we save lives.

SIDNER: The two things, schools close and businesses close, that has been a big issue across the board for a lot of different people. Thank you, gentlemen, for that very robust conversation.


Next, Florida decides to change the way black history is taught. We'll tell you why critics say it is a huge step backward.




SIDNER: New tonight, Florida State Board of Education approving new rules for how to treat black history in public schools. The new standards say students should learn that enslaved people develop skills that -- quote -- "could be applied for their personal benefit." And that during lessons on acts of violence during slavery, teachers should include acts of violence perpetrated against and by African- Americans.

Let's bring in Randall Kennedy. He's a professor at Harvard Law School. He is also the author of "For Discrimination: Race, Affirmative Action, and the Law." Randall, I'm going to start here with the simplest question. Can you make this make sense?

RANDALL KENNEDY, AUTHOR, PROFESSOR AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, it's a very bad situation. I mean, what's happening in Florida is that political figures are trying to make a virtue of ignorance. They are removing from the classroom subjects that ought to be taught.

There are educators in Florida who would like to educate students about subjects like reparations, subjects like Black Lives Matter, subjects like feminism and Black American thought. And they're being told to be quiet. They're being told -- these educators are being told that they cannot teach their students about these subjects, and that should be concerning for everyone.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you why you think this is happening now. We have seen what some people have described as a white lash after the election of Barack Obama, and then you had the Black Lives Matter movement from 2014 until date to 2022 when George Floyd was murdered by a police officer.

Why do you think this is happening right now, that some of these things are being either taken out or watered down as to what happened to Black Americans in this country?

KENNEDY: Well, there's an immediate reason and a long-term reason. The immediate reason is that there are political figures who think that doing things like this will help them. I mean, obviously, the governor of Florida is running for the presidency, and he thinks that actions like this will rile up his base. And so, you know, he's doing this to advance himself.

There is a long-term reason. The long-term reason is that black history in particular has constantly been the subject of vilification and Black people in America have constantly had to wage a political struggle over their history. On the one hand, the atrocities that have fallen them have been belittled.

Slavery -- you know, frankly, until relatively recently, slavery was viewed in some curricula as a school for civilization. Segregation was viewed as a good thing. Reconstruction was viewed as a bad thing. I remember in my lifetime that was the teaching.


SIDNER: That all changed. At some point, there was some change in that, where people saw themselves as more enlightened and demanded that we tell the truth about our history. Why are we back here again in 2023?

KENNEDY: Well, there was some change, but, you know, it wasn't complete. In fact, one of the things that's happening now is an effort to complete the efforts that were made, for instance, in the second reconstruction, the effort to complete the task of making this a full, multiracial society in which all communities are respected.

That mission was never fulfilled. People are trying to fulfill it now, and they are being met as they have been met over the decades with a desperate reaction against trying to make this society a better society.

SIDNER: Randall Kennedy, thank you so much for coming on and spelling out for us how you see this. I know that you've been studying this for a very long time. I appreciate your time.

KENNEDY: Thank you.

SIDNER: Anticipation is building for a potential third indictment of former President Donald Trump. But while everyone is waiting, Special Counsel Jack Smith is pushing on with his investigations. What Smith's latest moves tell us about the timing for a potential indictment. That's ahead.




SIDNER: The clock is ticking. Donald Trump has just minutes to go to respond to the special counsel. So, what happens next? When will the former president find out if prosecutors are going to try to hold him accountable for attempting to overturn the 2020 election?

Let's discuss "Tomorrow's News Tonight" with former deputy assistant attorney general Larry -- Harry Litman. I've talked to you so many times. What am I doing here? Harry, we just got minutes left here for Donald Trump to respond to the grand jury. No one is expecting that he's going to do that. And the special counsel is scheduling more witness interviews, we have learned, for the coming weeks. What does that mean for the timing of an indictment and is it certain that there will be one in your estimation?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'll start there. Yes, I can think of once or twice in my whole career that a target letter hasn't been followed by an indictment. And here, this is not a kind of casual matter where DOJ would be considering it. It is a done deal. It has already -- there's a model indictment drafted. It has already gone up to Garland and the whole brass. It's happening.

Now, the witness interviews are one thing, but you can do witness interviews after a grand jury has returned charges. So, we don't know that -- I think now he's ready to go. Jack Smith is all about speed right now, and I think he's worried about the Fulton County possible charges.

I think the only thing left, Sara, is if Trump wants to take an appeal, a final hearing, and I think Garland would insist he's got to go to Jack Smith. That's a courtesy you would afford him.

Otherwise, though, I know he's going talk to other witnesses, but that's fine, you can do that. I don't think the grand jury's work will put any kind of brakes on him at all. He wouldn't have done the target letter if he weren't ready to go.

SIDNER: Okay. Can you give us some sense, though, of what is going to happen as all of these cases start to clash? You have the case in New York to do with the Stormy Daniels money exchange, if you will. And you have the potential of Georgia coming forward. You have the documents case that's going on right now in Florida. They can't all be tried at the same time, certainly.

LITMAN: It's really true. And, of course, there are civil cases as well. You have won the E. Jean Carroll case. The judges said it will be tried. I think these will naturally separate. If they're really scheduled for literally overlapping time, one of them will give.

But one reason Jack Smith is coming out of the box now is in order to be in the sort of a poll position. He'll be in a courtroom for this case where the judges are used to moving quickly, and the Court of Appeals also sort of fed up with Trump and have moved very quickly.

So, remember when the New York A.G. -- the New York D.A., Bragg, brought charges, it was like totally consuming. But they have a way of separating out. Now, I think for Trump, they could be very close to one another, contiguous. But I actually think the charges we're about to see will be the first ones to go to trial, and that will be before November 2024.

SIDNER: Okay. Harry Litman, thank you so much. We will watch to see if your predictions come true. We appreciate it.

LITMAN: Very good. Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: Just ahead, it's a question that has been lingering for almost 30 years. Who killed Tupac Shakur? Well, we could possibly maybe be getting closer to an answer that is a decades old mystery. Exclusive, I'll talk to a member of Tupac's family. His brother is on tonight.




SIDNER: It is a question that has been asked and debated for nearly 30 years now. Who killed world-renowned hip-hop artist and actor Tupac Shakur? Shakur was gunned down in a drive-by shooting in 1996 and no one was ever charged or arrested in this case.

But now, there's new movement in the case. Las Vegas Police have executed a search warrant at a home in Henderson, Nevada. Investigators seized computers, hard drives, and magazine articles about the rapper and his death. Tupac was one of the biggest music stars in the world when he was killed. He sold more than 75 million records in just five years.




SIDNER: He was one of the most prolific voices of the hip-hop generation. Tupac Amaru Shakur, a young man with big, bright eyes and a poetic sensibility who spit out lyrics that detailed life as he knew it, unvarnished.


He revealed the beauty and pain of his life and those around him. The theme stretched from violence in the streets to black liberation to the love between a mother and son.


Tupac lived a version of the American dream as well as an American nightmare. He was a young Black man who unchained himself from the extreme poverty he grew up in, in Baltimore in California. His school friends say his nose was always in a book, always learning. But it was his music and acting that set the world alight.

AFENI SHAKUR, MOTHER OF TUPAC SHAKUR: Tupac was extremely passionate, very honest, and raw in his approach to communicating.

SIDNER: He became a world-famous icon of an emerging genre of music, hip hop, only to be gunned down at just 25 years old near a Las Vegas street corner. Retired Las Vegas Police Lieutenant Chris Carroll was first on the scene that September day in 1996.

CHRIS CARROLL, RETIRED LVMPD LIEUTENANT: I ended up pulling Tupac out of the car. I spoke to him. He was still alive. He was still breathing. I was asking him who did it, who shot him, what happened, and that's when he responded to me with the now infamous words, F-U.

SIDNER: To put it mildly, Shakur was not a fan of the police for a myriad of reasons. For one, his mother says, he experienced police violence while still in her womb. Afeni Shakur recounted the FBI charging into her home, guns out, and carting her off to jail for being a member of the Black Panthers. She defended herself in court and won her case against the state.

SHAKUR: He was born one month and three days after we were acquitted.

SIDNER: Tupac also had his own run-in with violence and the law.

TUPAC SHAKUR, FORMER AMERICAN RAPPER: I will make this court proud if they give me the chance to do so. I mean, I'm sure you don't need to see another black face behind bars.

SIDNER: He was a natural-born fighter for black causes, born of two members of the Black Panther Party.

A. SHAKUR: I am his mother. And to a large extent, I feel as though Tupac came into this world carrying -- my Black Panther Party pass was his baggage.

SIDNER: He was shot five times during a robbery in Quad Studios at Times Square and lived to tell the tale. He always thought East Coast rappers set him up. He was arrested multiple times, accused of violence, but Tupac went to prison after being convicted of sexual abuse in 1995. That happened about a month before the release of his album, "Me Against the World." He was bonded out after eight months by Suge Knight, CEO of Death Row Records.


SIDNER: The raw words of his songs served as a form of empowerment for people feeling the weight of oppression. Twenty-seven years after his death, his music is as relevant as ever.

Then this week, a stunning announcement. Las Vegas Police suddenly revealing they served a search warrant on this Henderson, Nevada home. In the warrant, there is mention of the South Side Compton Crips gang. And they seized items belonging to a man named Duane Keith Davis, nicknamed "Keefe D."

In 1996, Los Angeles Police did pick up and question this man they said belonged to that same gang. Orlando Anderson was named a suspect in the case, but he was never charged. UNKNOWN (voice-over): Were you involved in any way in the death of Tupac Shakur?

ORLANDO ANDERSON, CONSIDERED PRIME SUSPECT IN THE MURDER OF TUPAC SHAKUR: No, I was not involved. I'm like a victim. You know what I'm saying? I feel sorry for him.

SIDNER: The night of Tupac's murder, surveillance showed Anderson being beaten by Shakur and his entourage in Las Vegas. Hours later, Shakur is shot and killed while in the car with Suge Knight. No one knows what will come of the new police activity. But after 27 years of waiting, his fans and his family hope not just that the murder is solved, but that justice is served.


SIDNER: Joining me now exclusively, Tupac's brother and collaborator, Mopreme Shakur. First, Mr. Shakur, thank you so much for taking the time to be here tonight. I know you have relived this nightmare for the family for over 27 years and it never gets easier.

Can I ask you, what did you think when you learned that police suddenly, 27 years later, are doing a search warrant on someone's home in Nevada in connection with your brother's murder?


MOPREME SHAKUR, BROTHER OF TUPAC SHAKUR: First of all, good evening, Ms. Sidner. You know, I'm hopeful. But honestly, coming from my point of view, the way the system has treated my father, the late great Dr. Mutulu Shakur, who left us to go with the ancestors July 7th, from the way the system has treated my brother, Tupac Amaru Shakur, from the way the system has treated my stepmother, Afeni Shakur, who passed away with a hole in her heart, the late great Afeni Shakur, you know, I'm -- I'm not impressed, I'm not moved. You know, everybody gets your popcorn, we'll see what happens.

But on top of the fact, it has been 27 years. So, it doesn't seem that there has been a lot of zeal or robust investigation of this case.

SIDNER: It is not surprising, what you are saying. And I would like to give my condolences for you because I know you are still mourning the death of your father, Mutulu.

Can I talk to you about what is in the search warrant though, however? They're going to this home and they pull out all manner of things: hard drives, computers, phones. But they also pull out a "Vibe" magazine with Tupac on the front and a book as well.

What do you make of what they've taken out? The book was called "Compton Street Legends." Does that ring a bell to you?

M. SHAKUR: No, ma'am. I mean, Compton -- we -- my brother and I, you know, our music, our movement, thug Life, the whole thing, we're connected to all these communities, all these communities from the East Coast to the West Coast. So, the fact that there's a book, you know, about Compton there, that doesn't mean much to me.

SIDNER: Doesn't surprise you. Can I ask you if the name Duane Keith Davis or "Keefe D" means anything to you?

M. SHAKUR: Ms. Sidner, this individual, this theory about his connection to the case has been floating around for years.

SIDNER: He even said he was a witness, right, to the shooting, but never said anything about who was the actual killer.

M. SHAKUR: Yes. And that's my point. Where would law enforcement been? You know what I mean? I mean, it's been no mystery. It's almost 30 years, multiple decades. So --

SIDNER: When you say, sir, that it's been no mystery, do you know who killed Tupac or who you think killed Tupac, your brother?

M. SHAKUR: No, ma'am. No, ma'am, I don't. Unfortunately, I don't. No, for sure. But this -- this theory hasn't been looked into for 27 years. Why? My family has been traumatized. My sister, my daughter, my nieces, my nephew, we all been traumatized, waiting. You know, a faint, passed away waiting for something to happen, for someone to be proactive enough to take an action. For example, I hardly ever see any footage from outside the casino.

SIDNER: Right.

M. SHAKUR: We all seen the footage of the fight, but never seen no footage outside where the actual murder happened. Is it me? I don't know. I'm not a cop. I don't investigate.

SIDNER: You find that strange. Can I ask you about Tupac himself that night? You went to the hospital, didn't you, after Tupac had been shot? Did he try to communicate with you? What happened when you walked in that door?

M. SHAKUR: I got there -- I got to the hospital like a day later, me and my daughter, my ex-wife. He was trying to communicate. He still was alive. He was trying to communicate but --

SIDNER: How so? What was he doing?

M. SHAKUR: He was intubated, and he couldn't speak.

SIDNER: What gave you the thought that he was trying to communicate with you since he was intubated, had tubes down his throat?

M. SHAKUR: Because everyone knows Pac's eyes. You know, all the ones that love him and care for him, you know, we all know Pac. And we know -- I know his eyes. And on top of the fact, as shot up as he was, he was still shaking the bed trying to communicate with me.


SIDNER: What do you think he was trying to tell you?

M. SHAKUR: That's the -- that's a million-dollar question.

SIDNER: Can you give me one word to describe why you think Tupac Shakur is still a voice of the generation? People are still talking about him, still wearing the shirts, still listening to the music, still quoting him and quoting his poetry.

M. SHAKUR: Tupac Amaru Shakur (INAUDIBLE) was the king of rap. And though he was a fierce warrior, he represented love. He loved his community. He loved his people. He loved extremely.

SIDNER: Mopreme Shakur, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking about your long-deceased brother.

M. SHAKUR: Thank you. Rest in peace, Mutulu Shakur and Tupac Shakur and Afeni Shakur.

SIDNER: And we will be right back.

M. SHAKUR: Yes, ma'am.




SIDNER: This is the weekend of Barbenheimer. You know what I'm talking about. It's the movie event of the year, the twin premieres of "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer." One, "Oppenheimer," of course, is a story of a man whose brilliance wrought destruction the likes of which the world had never seen. That one is directed by Christopher Nolan.


UNKNOWN: Win the race against the Nazis. And I know what it means if the Nazis have a bomb.


SIDNER: The other is a story of a doll who changed the world. Director Greta Gerwig is keeping the details close to her Barbie pink vest. But it's a pretty safe bet that that movie does not involve an atomic bomb.


UNKNOWN (voice-over): Hey Barbie, can I come to your house tonight?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Sure.

UNKNOWN: I don't have anything big planned, just a giant blowout party with all the Barbies and planned choreography and a bespoke song. You should stop by.

UNKNOWN: So cool.



SIDNER: All right, "Barbie" is being released by Warner Brothers which, of course, shares parent company, Warner Brothers Discovery, with CNN. And now, Barbenheimer is shaking up to be the summer's hottest double feature. AMC said this week that 40,000 moviegoers already bought tickets to see both films on the same day.

And for "Tomorrow's News Tonight," you can see an interview with the two stars of "Barbie," Margot Robbie and America Ferrera. I talked to them last week or the week before last, and they're going to be on in the morning.

So, thank you so much for watching tonight. Our coverage continues.