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CNN Tonight

Manhunt Underway For Escaped Pennsylvania Inmate; Cash Crunch For Trump's Co-Defendants; Pregnant Woman Fatally Shot By Police; Some Republicans Call Michigan Paid Family Leave Plan "Summer Break For Adults." Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 01, 2023 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRINCESS DIANA, PRINCESS OF WALES (voice-over): You have no idea how much pain your mother put your father through. I said, "Pain, Raine? That's one word you don't even know how to relate to." In my job and in my role, I see people suffer like you've never seen. And you call that pain? I said, you've got a lot to learn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Diana recorded this audio in the 90s and had them secretly delivered to author Andrew Morton. These tapes were the basis of his book, "Diana: Her True Story."

And that's it for me on this Friday Before Labor Day in "CNN PRIMETIME." CNN TONIGHT with Laura Coates starts right now. Hey, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I'm going to -- hey, hey, hey. I'm going to have to go back and listen to again that Stephen A. Smith interview because I was like this on my phone --

(LAUGHTER)

-- at the TV, watching the entire thing like this. So, Abby, great interview.

PHILLIP: He had some hot -- he had some hot takes, I have to say.

COATES: He did. He really did. I'm telling you, I've never seen him so calm during an interview, and yet so engaged. I was leaning in like, oh, he is leaning in this entire thing. So, I --

PHILLIP: Oh, yeah.

COATES: -- cannot wait to hear all of it and also get the backstory behind all that and the truth.

(LAUGHTER)

You want to spill it? If you ever need a spill, call me. Okay?

PHILLIP: I will call you. Have a good night, Laura.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Good evening, everyone. I'm Laura Coates, and this is CNN TONIGHT. Police are now desperately searching at this very moment for a dangerous convicted murderer who escaped prison in Pennsylvania. Danelo Cavalcante was convicted of stabbing his girlfriend to death in front of her two young children. Now, the question tonight is, where is this man hiding and where is this man heading?

Law enforcement say that they believe Cavalcante may still be in the general area of the Chester County Prison, which is outside of Philadelphia, and they believe that he may be headed south.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH RYAN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR CHESTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: When he murdered Deborah Brandao in 2021, he headed toward Brazil. We have evidence to suggest that he was captured in Virginia, but the ultimate goal was to go to Mexico and then to Brazil, which is his native country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, now, there are questions about whether a previously escaped prisoner who is still on the run, by the way, may have actually helped Cavalcante. Can you imagine that? The chief county detective on the case will give us all the latest details in just a moment, and the warning that to residents to be extra vigilant this holiday weekend.

Plus, a cash crunch. Why some of Donald Trump's co-defendants, all 18 of them and maybe even a couple more, in the massive election subversion case in Georgia are now trying crowdfunding to pay their mounting legal bills.

And a paid family leave plan in Michigan would give workers time to care for a newborn or a sick family member. So why are some Republicans calling it summer break for adults? State Senator Mallory McMorrow has thoughts, and she is here tonight.

But I want to begin with our breaking news, everyone, the manhunt in Pennsylvania tonight. Joining me now is the chief county detective for Chester County, Pennsylvania, David Sassa.

I have to tell you, it's almost unbelievable to me that this could have happened and yet we have seen this, in fact, happened before. What is the latest on this manhunt and do you believe that he is no longer in Pennsylvania?

DAVID SASSA, CHIEF COUNTY DETECTIVE FOR CHESTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: So, good evening. Thank you for having me. We believe he's in the area. We have no information that he left the area. Again, this happened yesterday morning around 8:45. And once it was happened, the prison followed the protocols and notified law enforcement the surrounding area.

Right now, or since it happened, we have a large contingent of Pennsylvania State troopers, United States marshals, local law enforcement searching for this individual.

This area where the prison is in Chester County is a rural area. There's a lot of farmland-dense area with trees and farming areas. We've been searching nonstop around the clock looking for this individual.

COATES: Now, you said it happened around 8:45. Forgive the prosecutor's ears in me asking this next question, but it was discovered he was missing around that time or that's when you believe the escape actually happened?

SASSA: So, we believe it happened around that time and it was reported once they verified the count. Once they became aware of a person missing, they did a special count. But what we want to focus on is finding this individual. He's an extremely dangerous person. We're asking the public's help. We believe he possibly could be hiding in the area.

And again, like I said, it's a very rural area. We're asking all the neighbors in this area to keep an eye out not only for themselves but for their neighbors to make sure that, you know, they're looking for missing cars or broken garages or other things that would indicate somebody tampered with.

Again, he was convicted about a week and a half ago, first-degree murder, and sentenced to life in prison. And when he committed this murder back in April 2021, he was wanted for murder in Brazil.

[23:05:03]

And so, he is wanted here, wanted in Brazil.

COATES: And now, I understand there have been some cautionary moments happening to alert the public, keep them well informed, even telling them to be on the lookout.

But the idea of if you see this person, and I have to go to this, when you see this wanted poster, I know we are in a world where there's a lot of armchair detectives, there's a lot of true crime aficionados out there who believe that, look, if you see something, you say something, or maybe even approach that person.

Given what you've just said, what do you want people to do or think about if they were to see this person? Is it to try to do something or just to alert the authorities?

SASSA: Absolutely, do not approach this person. He is extremely dangerous. He's a violent person. He murdered his girlfriend in front of her two young children. He stabbed her over 30 times and murdered her. He is wanted in Brazil. The level of his violence is despicable. So, if you see him, do not approach him, call 911 immediately. We have numerous or hundreds of law enforcement officers here. We have tactical teams, we have air support, we have canines, we have -- again, we have a large contention of Pennsylvania State troopers, United States marshals who are experts at finding fugitives, along with county and local police department. Do not go near him. Report him immediately to 911. We've also posted a reward, as you posted up there, for $10,000 from the Marshals and it's -- um, he is dangerous. And we're concerned. We need to find him and get him into custody as soon as possible.

COATES: So, you have all these coordinated entities who are trying to locate this person. Are you aware of any resources that may -- that this person may have at his disposal? I mean, are there associates? Are there family members? Why are we hearing even reports that there may have been somebody who had escaped this facility in the past who gave some kind of aid? What is that about?

SASSA: So, he -- when he was arrested back in 2021, he was living in the northern part of Chester County. Uh, so some of his family helped him. After he committed this murder, they helped him get out of Chester County, and we caught him within about eight hours traveling south on Route 95 in Virginia. We believe he was headed to Mexico and then back to Brazil. That was where the information we got. He was caught back then in a relatively short period of time.

So, he had some of his family helping him back then to get out of the area. We have no information that anybody from his family or anybody else helped him escape at this point. But again, our efforts are focused on finding this individual. We are concerned. He is extremely dangerous.

And again, we're asking for everybody to be vigilant and to pay attention to their surroundings, have situational awareness. Report anything, anything, Laura, they see. It doesn't matter if somebody looks like and you think it may be him. Just call 911 and report it. If you do believe you see him, absolutely do not go near this individual. We have plenty of resources in the area to handle him.

COATES: You know, it strikes me, of course, that -- I'm glad that you're underscoring the importance of making sure people have that situational awareness. You are warning the public to take extra precautions. It is a time, of course, Labor Day weekend. People are maybe being more casual and relaxed before they are going somewhere. You're asking them to be extra vigilant.

But I have to go back to place that he would have been housed, of course, and jailed. Certainly, it would have other people who are also in that facility who would have had perhaps even equally or similar crimes having been committed.

The fact that this happened, and here we are more than 24 hours later not having much information as to how he escaped and whether there was assistance of any kind, I mean, what are you focusing on in terms of that facility to make sure this is not happening again in real time and somebody is not capitalizing on a focus that's otherwise directed to finding him?

SASSA: Again, I'm not going to comment on the eternal matter of the prison. All our efforts -- we have no information that anybody helped him escape from prison. We're focusing on finding him. Again, we've interviewed family members of his. We've notified the victim immediately.

And again, our efforts are in this area through the air, through land, through manpower, through searches, through grid searches, using canines, tactical teams. And again, all our efforts are through the federal, state, and county. And we're doing everything we can, 24 hours a day, around the clock to find this individual. He's extremely dangerous.

COATES: David Sassa, thank you so much. I'm so glad that you are here to bring us what you could as well.

I want to bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller and CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former Philadelphia police commissioner Charles Ramsey.

[23:10:02]

Let me begin with you, Chief Ramsey here. I mean, you were the police chief for the D.C. Sniper Manhunt. The prisoner now we know escaped custody yesterday morning, and we're here a day and a half later. What is the strategy at this point to try to figure out how best to use the resources, how to find this person? Do you immediately have half the team that's going to other locations and bordering states trying to figure out what his path may have been? Are you combing through this area and the foliage and the whole environment? What's the plan?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, I believe they're doing all the above. I mean, they've already sent out alerts to neighboring jurisdictions to be on the lookout for this particular individual. They're conducting a systematic search of the area. It is a rural community. A lot of places for him to hide both inside and outside, apparently.

You know, this is a holiday weekend, I heard you mentioned that earlier, which means some people may not even be home and not even aware that he may have broken in and found some shelter that way. So, you know, they've got to just take their time and really go through everything they possibly can.

But I think the fact that this is getting so much attention is a positive thing because his name and his picture is out there. People are being told to be very vigilant, very alert. This is a very dangerous individual. This is nothing to play with here at all. Someone see anyone who even resembles this guy, call 911, let the police figure out whether or not this is the right person.

I know they're also using the technology that they have available. I'm sure the helicopters and drones are looking for any signals that he signatures and so forth. They have dogs. So, they're doing everything they possibly can.

But at the same time, you also do have to take a look at how he got out in the first place. You're absolutely right. Now, they have the priorities right. They got to find him first.

But at the same time, people are not supposed to get out of jail. I mean, escape from jail, I should say. So, there's a lapse there, and that has to be corrected. But in the meantime, they've got to find this guy, and I believe they're doing everything they possibly can.

COATES: I mean, John, we certainly hope that's the case. And just thinking about the crime that he was convicted of having committed, the level of violence we're talking about, you heard the person continuously talking about the violence, and the D.A. also, Deb Ryan, confirmed earlier today that another prisoner actually escaped from this jail a couple of months ago, John. So, what do you know about the Chester County Prison?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the Chester County Prison is a place that suffers from a lot of the maladies that many prisons suffer from, which is staffing, having to do excessive overtime, trying to hire additional correction officers. But that's not unusual.

On the other hand, Laura, you know, you look at prison escapes in the United States. In 2000, there were about 5,000 prison escapes across the United States. That means from state prisons and federal prisons.

COATES: A big number.

MILLER: In 2019, I think that number was down to just under 2,000. So, we've seen prison escapes go way down. Part of that is the reduction in the prison population. But most of them are from minimum security facilities, medium security facilities.

This is a fairly secure facility, which means he had to put some planning into it, some creativity. It's unlikely that a door was left open. But one of the reasons we're not hearing about the details of how he got out is it's probably not a pretty story.

COATES: That's an important point. And just thinking about even the preparation, and it does -- you think about this person who has already been convicted and sentenced to life without parole. The idea of not having anything to lose maybe puts the exclamation point on the level of danger.

Chief Ramsey, if he is trying to get to Mexico, which was talked about earlier, what kind of coordination then is happening from state to state and then even at the border? Because, obviously, Pennsylvania, quite ways away from the southern border of the United States of America, but is there some coordination? Are we talking about how -- you know, interstate travel? Are we talking about the buses, the trains, planes? I would assume he would not be able to get on one, but what is that coordination?

RAMSEY: Well, he would have to have some form of transportation to go that far.

COATES: Right. RAMSEY: And so, when the alerts go out, the alerts do go out to, you know, train stations, bus stations and the like. But he could carjack, uh, an individual, hold a family hostage. He could steal a car. But he's going to have to have some mode of transportation.

[23:14:58]

I'm sure they've also set a Bolo out to customs and border patrols. Should he get that far away, they would at least be aware of it.

Now, you know, you look at the physical description of this guy, he's only 5 feet, 120 pounds. I mean, you know -- and people need to be aware of that. From a distance, he could look like a teenager, you know, if you're just -- if you're not close up to him or if he was able to shave, for an example. So, people just need to be very, very vigilant. When they're -- if it looks funny, if it looks strange, call 911 and let the police, you know, figure out exactly what it is going on.

But if he does try to get that far away, he's going to need some form of transportation. He certainly is not going to be able to walk to Mexico. And so, they have to be very busier vigilant when it comes to, you know, making sure, checking any records of any auto thefts that may have taken place. Anything at all. That could be a sign that he does have transportation.

COATES: And John Miller, really quick here in the time we have left, I mean, can you imagine how focused law enforcement is on trying to get this individual back and the coordination? I mean, not only is it not a pretty story likely, but they're well aware of how this looks.

MILLER: Well, it looks bad. And if you think of David Sassa, who you just had on, the chief detective for Chester County, his people put that homicide case together.

COATES: Right.

MILLER: What happened in 2021. They had to capture him when he was on the run the first time, they had to go through a trial, and they finally got him in prison where he belongs after being convicted. And now, they have to start over again. That's got to be very frustrating.

The flip side of it is, of course, he really does have nothing to lose. It's not like if he gives up quietly, he is going to do less jail time. He's sentenced to life without parole. So, he is the definition of a desperate criminal. And they realized the stakes are high here.

COATES: John Miller, Charles Ramsey, thank you both so much.

Well, you know, legal bills are piling up for Donald Trump's co- defendants in Fulton County. Will the cash crunch cause some of them maybe, well, the word flip comes to mind? We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, tonight, there are lots of new developments in the Georgia election interference case. Apparently, Donald Trump wants to sever his case. And meanwhile, the legal bills and the pressure are mounting for the other 18 co-defendants.

Here with me in the studio to discuss all of this, criminal defense attorney, A. Scott Bolden, and former federal prosecutor, Gene Rossi. Glad to have both of you here with me.

Let me begin with this notion that Trump wants to not be with the other 18 people, which is not the most surprising thing if they want to have a speedy trial. He doesn't want to go early. He doesn't want to go in October. Remember in the January 6th D.C. case, he said, 2026 sounds about right for me.

(LAUGHTER)

So, the idea of severing it, not the most surprising thing, right? But why do you think it's good for the others to do this?

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he doesn't want to go at all, first of all.

COATES: Right. That's true.

BOLDEN: Okay. But -- and the reason he wants to be severed is kind of weird. He's not going to win that motion because he just doesn't want to go under the speedy trial.

GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right.

BOLDEN: He does want to go in 2026. Not having Trump there is bad for the prosecution because it's a RICO case and she wants to tell the whole story. The government prosecutor wants to tell the whole story. It's going to look like when you got 19 defendants, she's going to have to tell the whole story without all of them in one courtroom. It's just not manageable and what have you. But, usually, you sever case because one party's defense is an adverse to the other.

ROSSI: Yes.

BOLDEN: You don't really have that here. He just doesn't want to go within 70 days. And so, the other side will kill their defense. But it will be interesting to see whether these 19 defendants, what their defenses are, and how they -- do they want to be an adverse to one another?

COATES: Hmm.

BOLDEN: Because the two defendants that want to go within 70 days, they're not adverse --

COATES: Ken Chesebro, Sidney Powell -- BOLDEN: That right. Their defenses up to date are not an adverse to one another. They just say they didn't have anything to do with it. They didn't make any affirmative acts. They didn't commit any predicate crimes and so forth and so on. It will be interesting to see what happens. How many hung together, how many plead out, and how many go the distance.

COATES: You know, when you think about it from the defense strategy, if you're going to go first and you don't have all 19 or the main ringleader in a RICO, what are you doing? You're telling the jury, look who's here. Look who's not here right now the entire time. Right? You're trying to get them to see the empty chairs and then say, well, that's the real person who should be here.

You've got some experience, of course, defending January 6th defendants who, you know, many were wondering what their defense would be. Were they directed by Donald Trump? Could the prosecution prove that there was some coordination or meeting of the minds or some other enterprise? You had first-hand experience about trying to figure out. What do you do when people are looking for accountability from the head honcho but you're the one on trial?

ROSSI: Well, I'll tell you this. There were three Rhodes trials. My client was in the third. And we had the sentencing this week. And knock on wood, he got probation. Very lucky. We put a rope through needle.

But we had 19 defendants in the indictment and it was broken up into two cases. And the problem with not having the main person in that courtroom is that when I gave my opening and closing, in my case, I was bashing the heck out of Donald Trump. The problem was he wasn't in the courtroom. So, that sort of deelevated my argument because the main guy wasn't there. I talked about it in my opening and closing, but it didn't work and my client was convicted.

COATES: But he wasn't there. But it was also maybe defeating because he hadn't been charged either.

ROSSI: Exactly. But I acted as though he had been charged. But Donald Trump has to be in that courtroom for Fani Willis to have a successful RICO prosecution.

[23:25:03]

She can't have any disparate trials. It has to be one big trial. It may not be 19 at once. It could be nine, then 10. But Donald Trump has to be in one big trial. Physically, you can't do 19 in one courtroom.

COATES: I mean, the Georgia Dome, I hear, might be nice. I don't know if that happens or not.

(LAUGHTER)

But particularly people who did not get probation, this has happened this week --

ROSSI: Yes.

COATES: -- and actually today as well. Dominic Pezzola --

ROSSI: Right.

COATES: -- he was the Proud Boy who smashed the Capitol window to try to gain access for the rioters on January 6th. He has been sentenced to 10 years in prison today. You also have Ethan Nordean, who led a group of 100 Proud Boys to the Capitol on that same day. He got 18 years, gentlemen. And then listen to this. Here's Nordean on that day with Joseph Biggs, who, by the way, got 17 years. He's -- well, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIGGS, PROUD BOYS MEMBER: So, we just stormed the (bleep) Capitol.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, we did.

BIGGS: Took the (bleep) place --

(LAUGHTER)

BIGGS: Oh, so much fun!

UNKNOWN: So much America! So much America!

BIGGS: January 6th will be a day in infamy.

UNKNOWN: Yes! yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You chuckle.

BOLDEN: Yeah.

COATES: That didn't help them.

BOLDEN: It didn't help them, but they didn't anticipate being prosecuted. Nobody got arrested that day. It's a day in infamy. What was interesting about Judge Kelly's sentencing is that the government wanted 27 or 25 to 30 years. And while he agreed that this was a threat and an assault on democracy, there weren't any mass casualties. And he came in the middle. He gave them 17, 18, and 10, depending on who the defendant was.

I think that's a fair sentence. That's a lot of time. You know, they got to do 80% of that time even if they're on good behavior. But I think he struck a real balance. Ultimately, what's going to really happen here for justice to be done for January 6 is that Donald Trump has to be held accountable. That's what the federal case is about and the state case. And he's really the main piece.

It was funny you said you needed Donald Trump in your January 6 cases, but he's omnipresent. He's on the news every day. Depending on the jury you pick, you can talk about Donald Trump as bad as you want. I'm not sure he has to be there because he's in our face all the time sucking up the room. You disagree with that?

ROSSI: I respectfully -- I know you're a Morehouse man.

BOLDEN: Great lawyers can disagree.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Look at this love on a Friday night. Keep going.

ROSSI: You can always tell a Morehouse man, you can't tell much.

(LAUGHTER)

ROSSI: I will (INAUDIBLE) couple of minutes ago. But here's the thing. Donald Trump has to be in that courtroom, has to be, because he's the (INAUDIBLE) of that indictment. He is the -- he is the center of that real conspiracy.

BOLDEN: And the base.

ROSSI: And the base. And he's the spiritual force of the prosecution's case.

BOLDEN: Yeah.

ROSSI: And if he's not there physically, I think it really diminishes Fani Willis's case. Let's go to the motion of sever. The chances of a motion to sever --

BOLDEN: I'm convinced, by the way.

ROSSI: You are?

BOLDEN: Just based on your argument.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: What was it? Was it the spiritual center?

BOLDEN: Yeah, it was. It was.

COATES: I was smart. Got it.

ROSSI: The motion to sever, they are rarely granted. And Scott brought up the point if they have an argument that's conflicting. We don't have conflicting arguments here. He was the center. They were all working for him. They were advising him. There may be a little conflict of the people on a circle, but not the person in the center.

So, I think we will have a trial in Atlanta probably in March, maybe in May, and we will have a conviction, in my view, by the summer. The longest part of this trial, in my view, for Donald Trump, will be picking a jury. COATES: Hmm.

ROSSI: That will be the hardest thing.

BOLDEN: Yeah, yeah.

ROSSI: Because jurors have -- it's baked, their attitudes. And in my case that I had with my client, it was difficult to pick a jury.

BOLDEN: Look for the next argument to be on this motion to sever. There are two other elements of severing under Georgia law, and that is whether the evidence in the law that comes in can be either misapplied or confusing in regard to what law and evidence can be applied to each defendant.

That's going to be really important because you have 19 defendants. You've got several charges. Donald Trump has 13 of them. The judge and the prosecutor are going to have to be really, really good at laying this out and explaining it.

I don't tend to like RICO cases in civil or criminal because they're very complicated. And when I've tried them on both sides of the law, you've got to be really detailed and in plain language, explain in your closing and your opening what we're doing. It is not an easy case to listen to as a juror and it is certainly not an easy case to get a conviction or a non-guilty verdict on.

COATES: Well, we will see how all that unfolds. And if you're wondering if Donald Trump needs to be in the room to be considered, today there was one defendant sentenced, and before he walked out, he said --

ROSSI: Oh, yeah.

COATES: He raised his fist and said, "Trump won."

[23:30:00]

So, I'm just saying --

ROSSI: Just saying.

COATES: -- he's there in the room.

BOLDEN: He lives in that guy's mind.

COATES: He's there. Maybe rent free, everyone.

BOLDEN: Yeah, right.

COATES: Scott Bolden, Gene Rossi, thank you both so much.

BOLDEN: Thank you.

ROSSI: Thank you. COATES: Next, she was 21 years old, she was pregnant, and she was also fatally shot by police. Now, Ta'Kiya Young's family is demanding justice. Their attorney is joining us after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Tonight, investigators in Ohio have now released bodycam video of a deadly incident inside of a grocery store parking lot that happened last week.

[23:35:01]

It shows the moment an officer fatally shot a pregnant woman who was accused of shoplifting. Twenty-one-year-old Ta'Kiya Young later died at a hospital. Her unborn child also did not survive. Young's grandmother said that she was already the mother of two young boys. I want to warn you this video is graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Get out of the car. Get out of the car. Get out. No. Get out.

UNKNOWN: Get out of the car.

UNKNOWN: Get out of the car.

(GUNSHOT)

UNKNOWN: Get out of the car.

UNKNOWN: Shot fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Very difficult to watch that video. Joining me now, the attorney representing Ta'Kiya Young's family, Sean Walton. Sean, thank you for joining me this evening. You know, as I alluded to, the basis for the stop, they say, was because she had been accused of shoplifting. Is that what you understand as the reason why she had been approached this way and how we got here?

SEAN WALTON, ATTORNEY FOR TA'KIYA YOUNG'S FAMILY: First of all, thank you for having me. And it's unconscionable that we're here, you know, for the very reason that you said.

And, you know, since we began this investigation after the shooting, we found a witness that said that Ta'Kiya actually had not shoplifted at all, and that she had exited the store without any items in her hand. And so, you know, it's likely that the officers had no reason to even arrest Ta'Kiya, let alone confront her.

COATES: You know -- and I want to apologize. I initially pronounced her name Ta'Kiya. I'm sorry for that. It is Ta'Kiya, and I want to make sure that I honor that. My apologies to you. The Young family has also viewed the bodycam video, I understand. We saw part of it today. But before it was actually released officially, I want to mention, though, they blurred the faces of the officers, it seemed. It seemed to be spliced together. Has the family of Ta'Kiya actually seen the real video unaffected, unedited at all?

WALTON: Not at all, not at all. You know, what you all have seen is what the family has seen. And so, that's why it's important that we conducted our own investigation because they will not, you know, truly give us transparency. They have not released the name of the officer.

That officer is Connor Grubb. He's a four-year veteran, hired in January 2019, and he has a background that should be looked into because I think it, you know, gives some clues -- it gives some clues into how we got here where the situation escalated in a Cobra parking lot to a murder investigation.

COATES: Now, if they haven't released the name, how have you identified this officer?

WALTON: As I said --

COATES: You don't have that report?

WALTON: Right. You know, as I stated, we began investigating this as soon as she was killed. And so, uh, you know, our investigation has yielded that name. Uh, we have a roster of officers. We have some sources that have identified that officer. And so, we're confident that it is officer Connor Grubb.

COATES: Well, that officer that you've named is welcome to respond at any time to that conclusion that you have drawn for your investigation. We don't have that reporting at CNN, but I do want to read for you a moment what the police chief has said. They released a pretty lengthy statement detailing the department's actions following this incident, and it says in part that they immediately requested the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation to conduct an independent investigation.

They also described placing the officer who fired the shot on administrative leave and also placing the other officer out of an abundance of caution also on that leave.

And less than 24 hours later, they released a detailed video statement explaining the facts of what happened. Many agents they wanted you to know refused to issue comments, but they wanted the community to have the basic details as soon as they could be verified.

You just mentioned transparency. And of course, this statement has a very different suggestion. Do you believe that Ta'Kiya's family or that they believe that the Blendon Township Police have been transparent at least in the chronology described just then?

WALTON: Not at all. You know, first and foremost, they will not release this officer's name, and they won't do so because of Marsy's Law, a law that is intended to protect crime victims. And so, they've identified these officers as crime victims from the very outset. And so, they can't give us the basic facts of what happened without knowing those facts themselves.

What we see is we see a video where this officer for no reason at all, with no provocation, pulls his weapon, says get the "F" out the car, and that car slightly moves. And, you know, it's important to note that Ta'Kiya turns the wheel of the car to the right before the car begins to move. She had no intent to hurt this officer, but that officer had every intent to shoot and kill her.

I want to say that they have -- we had a copy. We've been provided a copy of the department's use of force and what their rules are.

[23:39:57]

And it reads in part, I'm quoting here, "An officer should only discharge a firearm at a moving vehicle or its occupants when the officer reasonably believes that there are no other reasonable means available to avert the imminent threat of the vehicle or if deadly force other than the vehicle is directed at the officer or others."

You've mentioned, of course, the idea of the movement and how this will play into all of this. We will be watching this very closely. The loss of life, not insignificant at all. And my condolences to the family of Ta'Kiya. Thank you and please keep us informed.

WALTON: Absolutely. Thank you.

COATES: Republicans in Michigan blasting a paid family leave proposal as quote -- "summer break for adults." My next guest is taking offense at that. She'll tell you why next.

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[23:45:00]

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COATES: Paid family leave is top of the political agenda in Michigan right now. In a speech this week entitled "What's Next," Governor Gretchen Whitmer calling on lawmakers to pass legislation guaranteeing workers the right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): No one should have to choose between being there for their family and a paycheck. It helps workers be there for their families. It gives you breathing room to get better when you're sick, to bond with your baby or care for a family member. Right now, 77% of Michigan workers do not have access to paid family and medical leave.

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COATES: The governor did not actually outline specifics in that speech, but Democrats have introduced bills in the House and Senate calling for a 15-week paid family leave in a year for the birth of a child, to care for a sick family member or for their own serious health condition, among, frankly, the most generous in this entire country.

Joining me now, Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow is here with us now. Thank you for joining us today. I'm learning a lot more about what's going on in Michigan on this very issue which, frankly, is very popular socially, maybe not always universally politically, but Republicans in Michigan are actually criticizing these proposed bills.

You have the state House press secretary saying that they're quote- unquote -- "full of loopholes," and then he questions whether there are adequate checks and balances to make sure that people aren't abusing the system and they say taking vacation time and pretending that it's for medical purposes.

Now, I wonder if this is according to the messenger, by the way. But what is fueling this mistrust?

STATE SENATOR MALLORY MCMORROW(MI-D): Laura, I mean, it was mind- boggling. They even went a step further to put out talking points that said this is taxpayer-funded adult summer vacation. And I know you're a mom, I'm a mom --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

MCMORROW: -- any parent can tell you the first few weeks after giving birth to a child is the last thing from a vacation.

COATES: Weeks, months, some would say years after giving birth to a child. I'm waiting for the vacation element of it, but that's one aspect of it, of course. The idea that this is something that is going to be abused, that someone is going to pretend one thing, take advantage of this particular notion, and then do something that costs the taxpayer money, says a larger issue about how people are viewing this entire thing.

And there is -- by the way, here is some of what the memo obtained by "The Messenger" has to say about this very issue. It says, Lansing Democrats want to take money out of your paychecks with a new tax to pay for summer break for adults. It's a ridiculous idea that people just can't afford. This was dated, by the way, August 30th, and it urges the lawmakers to say -- here's the talking point -- people's paychecks will be smaller if Democrats proceed with their plan to push this proposal through the legislature. I'm fighting hard to stop them.

That's the talking point they have. Now, you tweeted that you were, well, gobsmacked when you heard this, and you've talked about your own experience with childbirth. Tell me a little bit more as to why you were so gobsmacked about this very idea.

MCMORROW: I mean, because there's absolutely no data to back up that this is abused in any way. You know, the United States is last in the world right now in terms of countries who guarantee paid family leave.

So, we have countries all around the world to look to as examples who have thriving economies, and there's also 11 states who have already enacted guaranteed paid leave because the federal government has been gridlocked for so long.

So, there's absolutely no data to prove this. I just spoke with one of the mayors in my district, Melanie Piana of Ferndale, who they became the first municipality in the state of Michigan to enact paid family leave.

Back in 2016, she told me it has been huge for their ability to recruit and retain employees, especially younger workers. They have had some issues in covering staffing, particularly in their police department. But because of her experience, we're going to take that back to the legislature to make this the best policy that it can possibly be.

COATES: You know, you have to wonder, you know, why this is such a novel idea, and the idea of people are always going to have something that unfortunately occurs, either fortunately or unfortunately, that brings either joy or woes, and the health care and the way of having paid leave, of course, intersects in so many ways.

And yet the question, though, of who's going to pay for it is going to be the talking point with the most legs. What is your reaction and response?

MCMORROW: So, the governor's speech is what I like to think of like the introduction of a concept card, something that we here in Michigan know a lot about.

[23:50:00]

It's really to introduce the idea. And once people express interest in the idea, then it comes back to the engineers. That's the legislature. We're going to debate, we're going to figure out how we pay for it, what is fair. We want to make sure that this is supporting our small business owners, not making it harder to operate a small business.

We know that so many people work in small businesses, just like we fund our roads, Medicare, Medicaid, social security, public schools. Every service that the government offers is with taxpayer dollars, and that's our responsibility.

You know, I had somebody remark that all of the other things that I mentioned are a public benefit, whereas paid leave is not. And that, to me, was laughable, because there is no public without women giving birth. So, if we want to increase our birthrate, we want to encourage people to be able to have a family without having to choose between a job and a child. This is the way forward.

COATES: I mean, public (INAUDIBLE) to the public. In some respects, in a civilized society, we're talking about semantics when it comes in the end. Senator Mallory McMorrow, thank you so much.

MCMORROW: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

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COATES: Thanks for watching. And before we go tonight, a preview of the new CNN film, "Little Richard: I Am Everything," taking a closer look to reveal the black queer origins of rock and roll and the man who brought it all to life. His name, Little Richard.

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UNKNOWN: Watching Richard, I don't have to stand there. Use the whole stage. Richard would work the audience. Get them up, out of their seats, swaying, shouting, waving their arms --

LITTLE RICHARD, SINGER: All right!

CROWD: All right!

UNKNOWN: -- responding stuff.

CROWD: All right!

UNKNOWN: Thirty dates, so I saw Little Richard 30 times. You know what I mean? Later on, I realized he was doing church in a theater in Northern England, basically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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