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CNN Tonight

Trump Endorses Jim Jordan For House Speaker. Police Body Camera Footage Shows The Arrest Of Duane Davis; CNN TONIGHT Presents "Overtime With Bill Maher"; Laura Coates Interviews Malcolm Jenkins; Simone Biles Wins Women's All-Around Final To Secure Record 21st World Championship Gold Medal. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 06, 2023 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, a frightening headline out of London. Reports say that one of Britain's most popular morning television personalities was the target of a kidnap and murder plot. Holly Willoughby has been absent from her anchor chair since yesterday morning, and she was reportedly taken off the air after being informed of the plot. Now, British Police say that a man is under arrest, and he's facing a series of charges now.

And that's it for me in "CNN PRIMETIME." CNN TONIGHT with Laura Coates is starting right now. Hey, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, good to see you. It's Friday and let me tell you, we're about to talk about what a week it has been, Abby Phillip, let me tell you.

PHILLIP: Absolutely.

COATES: Get your rest. Come back.

PHILLIP: Have a great show.

COATES: Buckle up. Thank you so much. Good evening, everyone. I'm Laura Coates. And yes, we did make it to Friday, and we have all earned the weekend ahead because man, it has been a week, hasn't it?

I mean, remember what we've gone through in the past just a few days. There was the manufactured shutdown drama over the weekend when Congress cited to just kick the can down the road instead of maybe finishing the task at hand. Then on Monday, day one of Donald Trump's quarter of a billion-dollar fraud trial in New York City. Yeah, I said billion with a "B." Tuesday, Kevin McCarthy got voted out of the job that he risked everything to get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE WOMACK (R-AR): The office of speaker of the House of the United States House of Representatives is hereby declared vacant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That was just Tuesday, by the way, because by Wednesday, it was back to New York where Donald Trump defied the judge's gag order, standing in front of cameras and blasting the New York attorney general and the very judge who will decide his fate in this case after, of course, a limited gag order was already issued.

Then you have last night. It was the former president throwing his support behind Trump acolyte, Jim Jordan, for the speaker of the House. That's the second in line to the presidency, remember? That after floating the idea that he would actually take the job himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I never wanted to do this job, but someone has to, um, who can bring the team together and can go communicate to the country, and that's why I'm running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And there's new reporting tonight from CNN's Kaitlan Collins about how and why Trump picked Jordan to endorse. Apparently, it's because he wanted someone who'd be loyal to him in the job, and actually never seriously intended to be speaker himself.

But wait, there's more. TGIF did not give you a reprieve from the whiplash, everyone. First, there were multiple sources saying that the former speaker was going to step down before the end of his term. Then Kevin McCarthy told reporters, nope, I don't know who told you that, I'm not doing it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): You're not resigned?

KEVIN MCCARTHY, SPEAKER, UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: No, I'm not resigned.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): So, you'll stay the entire term?

MCCARTHY: I'm staying, so don't worry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And if we thought this week was bad, wait until next week, because this may have been a dress rehearsal for what is coming ahead. Now, it's almost gotten to the point where if this were a series, it would have jumped the shark by now. It'd be comical and it really wouldn't -- it would be funny if it were fiction, of course. But it's actually not fiction. It's real life.

I mean, look at all the problems in real life we are facing. There's aid to Ukraine, there's funding the United States government, not a minor detail, there's the immigration crisis, the epidemic of gun violence in this country, the climate crisis. And fasten your seat belts because we are actually no closer sitting here right now to finding the next speaker of the House. The GOP conference isn't even going to meet until 6 p.m. on Monday. They get the weekend off just like you do, although maybe one set of us should be working. They have a candidates' forum on Tuesday. They've got a closed-door meeting on Wednesday.

The question is, will it be Jim Jordan who emerges or Steve Scalise or maybe someone else we're not even thinking about on this Friday evening? And if it is Jim Jordan, what does his track record tell us about what he'd be like as Speaker of the House and the leader?

If he becomes the next speaker, would his politics, his unique brand of politics, redefine the Republican Party? I mean, this time next week, think about it, we might have the answers to who will be holding the gavel and who will be left holding the bag.

I want to bring in CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh, he's the host of the "White Flag" podcast, and Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton. So, what a week.

(LAUGHTER)

JOE WALSH, PODCAST HOST, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: So.

COATES: I mean, what a week.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm exhausted --

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: That was my charisma, Maria Cardona. That was what happened.

[23:05:00]

It was supposed to be magnetic for you.

(LAUGHTER)

But let me tell you, this was a week to behold. History happens a lot around these parts, we know. But Shermichael, when you think about, and look at this, the news tonight --

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Uh-hmm.

COATES: -- that Donald Trump was never really running, never thought he would, the rule said he can't, he wanted a loyalist --

SINGLETON: Of course.

COATES: Just in case. Is that news to you?

SINGLETON: I mean, no, it's not news to me, but what I do think is interesting is that we're really seeing this interesting phenomenon, Joe, between the more traditional republican establishment and the more populist, nationalist-infused base that Donald Trump represents.

And I would argue, Laura, that you had Speaker Ryan, who I know very well, worked for him. He's now gone. Boehner left. And now, you have McCarthy gone.

I mean, they were supposed to be the next generation to sort of carry that establishment mantle, and I would argue that is no more. This is all about the populism that you see from the base, and I think that's going to chart the course for the Republican Party for the next potential two to three election cycles.

COATES: I mean, Joe, what they had in common, that picture just now, the three of them, right, the connective tissue is a few said, we don't want you, and the majority said, let them stay or reconsider. That is the threat here.

WALSH: This is -- this is Trump's party. It's -- look, I served with Jim Jordan. He and I, 10 or 11 years ago, when we made life hell for John Boehner, we were the fringe. Now, Jim is about to become speaker because this is a MAGA party. Jim Jordan is mainstream Republican and it's scary for the country, but this is a MAGA Trump party now.

COATES: That's the interesting part as a Democrat because it might be enticing to sit back and eat some popcorn and say, you guys go ahead and fight amongst yourselves, and we'll look better in the end.

(LAUGHTER)

But as you know, this has consequences overall, and party and identity politics is so a part of our system.

CARDONA: Uh-hmm.

COATES: Does this change the identity of the Republican Party if Jordan were to become the speaker?

CARDONA: I agree with Joe. I don't think that it really does because it has already changed.

WALSH: Yeah.

CARDONA: We know that Donald Trump is the leader of the party. We know that most in that conference genuflect at the altar of Donald Trump. And that is exactly the problem.

Kevin McCarthy tried to become that, but wasn't credible enough on their end, and then became not credible with the moderates and the commonsense leadership to be able to trust him.

That's what happened with Democrats not being able to come to the table and actually save him because he did not prove himself to be a partner that could be trustworthy. He lied to the president, he lied to Democrats, he went into this deal with him back in May, went back on his word, told Matt Gaetz what he wanted to hear, told President Biden what he wanted to hear, and at the end of the day, no one trusted him. COATES: You know, it's interesting, earlier today on our programming, we heard from former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who actually waited on this issue of credibility, but the word he used was, true believer instead. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: The thing you need to understand about Jim Jordan is he's a true believer, but he truly believes that the Democrats or the left is an enemy of America, and he will do anything, even extra constitutionally, to defeat them. That's his general belief.

I would put him in the camp of Christian nationalists where he believes he's truly fighting these dark forces and the Constitution in some cases is an impediment to him being able to fight those forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That's a really fascinating statement. How do you see it?

WALSH: It's true. I know Jim Jordan well. Jim Jordan believes that Democrats are evil. He has told me that. But again, this is where this Republican Party is.

Um, it's scary for the country, but Donald Trump is an election denier. Donald Trump tried to overturn an American election. Who was Trump's most loyal assistant in Congress trying to do that? Jim Jordan trying to overthrow the election. It makes perfect sense. It's scary for us, but it makes sense.

SINGLETON: Yeah, but is this perception or this idea that those on the ideological right perceive those on the ideological left as being a threat to their political existence only on the right? I would argue against that. I would most certainly make the case that there are some on the ideological left who view those on the right as being extreme and fringe and a threat to their existence. I don't think this is a phenomenon that only conservatives or Republicans are trying to do with it.

And I want to defend Speaker McCarthy here. He did the best he could to try to maintain a very, very divided House for as long as possible. And I think the question for, if it is going to be Jim Jordan as speaker, what does this populism look like legislatively, Laura? What is that agenda? Is it about border security? Is it about the budget or is it about some other things that a third of the country may not necessarily agree with? And I think that time is yet to be told.

[23:10:00]

CARDONA: I think -- I think that's exactly the issue, Shermichael, because, you know, a lot of people say -- Laura, I think you were kind of getting to this -- are Democrats going to regret not coming to the aid of McCarthy because we're going to get somebody worse? We all knew that we would most likely get somebody worse because most of the people who could win as speaker were going to have to be a lot more extreme than McCarthy, and we're seeing it now with Jim Jordan.

The issue though is, is that if they do embark on a pathway to try to implement an agenda that is far out of the mainstream of the majority of the country, that is going to give Democrats yet another opportunity to demonstrate why it is that Republicans don't deserve the majority, why it is that Americans cannot trust them to actually solve, govern, and lead.

Because Democrats will demonstrate that they have tried to work with them across the aisle, negotiate in a bipartisan manner, which in a divided country is the only way to get anything done, and will be able to say, look, they don't want to do it, they don't deserve to win.

WALSH: And that's why in a weird way, it doesn't matter who the next speaker is --

CARDONA: Right.

WALSH: -- because the Republicans have already demonstrated this first year that it's chaos, they're incompetent, they're already -- I mean, an impeachment inquiry over nothing. So, they're already on that track. If it's McHenry, if it's Scalise Jordan, it won't matter. It's going to be a year of chaos and incompetence.

SINGLETON: You know what I wonder?

COATES: Do you really feel that's the case, that it doesn't really matter who the speaker is?

WALSH: I don't think he does.

SINGLETON: Oh, I think it matters, but I'm curious to see, we haven't talked a lot about this, the moderates. It's quite a few moderates in the republican caucus right now.

WALSH: No.

SINGLETON: And I wonder -- I mean, we saw what Gaetz and seven others were able to do. What if the moderates came together and said, you know, we don't necessarily want a Jim Jordan, we want to go in a different direction. And I wonder if they can sort of coalesce that power and influence because it will put them at risk in 2024 when it comes to the election.

CARDONA: There's not enough of them, right?

COATES: Who is the person they put forth you think is in moderate?

SINGLETON: I mean, it could be the speaker pro temp, I would argue, because he was close to McCarthy.

COATES: McHenry.

SINGLETON: McHenry.

COATES: Does he want that job? CARDONA: I mean, let's remember there are 18, right, members --

SINGLETON: Biden districts.

CARDONA: -- of the republican conference who won in Biden districts. I don't think that's enough. But let's also remember, we talk about Gaetz and the eight that took McCarthy out, but there are 139 members of Congress --

SINGLETON: Yeah.

CARDONA: -- in the republican conference that voted not to certify the election. That's extreme. That's not one or two or three or eight. That's 139 members.

WALSH: I could be dead wrong, but I don't think there'll be a huge fight next week. This last week was a political disaster for Republicans. These moderates know that. They want to have this thing sewed up before.

CARDONA: Yes.

SINGLETON: Yeah.

WALSH: They don't want to repeat what happened in January.

COATES: And it's a private vote beforehand.

WALSH: Yeah.

COATES: We actually see everything. They're going to have a closed- door meeting.

SINGLETON: McCarthy is still hanging around to have influence over the process, as he stated earlier today.

CARDONA: But will it?

COATES: Hold on. Do we believe -- do we believe --

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Hold on. Let's have a crystal ball. Do we believe that Kevin McCarthy will remain in office for the duration of his term following losing the gavel?

WALSH: No.

SINGLETON: I think the former speaker is going to do what's in the interest of the party.

WALSH: Oh, what kind of an answer?

(LAUGHTER)

What kind of a political answer is that? COATES: Hold on. Let me just turn and give full side eye to you, Shermichael.

WALSH: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: It's Friday. We've had a week. I need a straight answer. Maria, Joe, Shermichael, thank you so much. Notice the side eye.

(LAUGHTER)

Do you know, do you know what the alleged murderer of Tupac Shakur said in the back of a police car when he was arrested? I'll tell you, next.

Plus, tonight's CNN presentation of HBO's "Overtime with Bill Maher," that is coming up, everyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: For 27 years, longer than he was even alive, we have wondered who killed Tupac Shakur. It was September 7th, 1996. The 25-year-old artist was leaving a boxing match on the Vegas Strip when he was shot four times in the passenger seat of a black BMW. Since then, there have been countless conspiracy theories and speculation about who did it and why they did it.

Now, this week, there has been a break in the case, Duane Davis was arrested, and now stands accused of that murder. Now, tonight, we have new bodycam footage of his arrest. He tells the officers who put him in handcuffs that he's being arrested in -- quote -- "the biggest case in Las Vegas history." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): So, what they got you for, man?

DUANE DAVIS, CHARGED WITH MURDER OF TUPAC SHAKUR (voice-over): Oh, man. The biggest case in Las Vegas history.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Oh, yeah?

DAVIS (voice-over): Yeah.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Like recent?

DAVIS (voice-over): September 7th, 1996. UNKNOWN (voice-over): Oh, no (bleep). Wow. That's a long time away.

DAVIS (voice-over): You know what I'm talking about?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Hmm?

DAVIS (voice-over): You know what I'm talking about?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yeah. Not a detective quite yet, but yeah.

DAVIS (voice-over): I ain't worried about it. I didn't do (bleep).

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Well, I mean, that's what court is for, right?

DAVIS (voice-over): Yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: September 7th, 1996. What he is calling the biggest case in Las Vegas history may have gotten even bigger. Why? Biggie Smalls. One detective testified in a grand jury that detectives had a theory that Tupac's case may, in fact, be related to the killing of notorious B.I.G., a man who was murdered in L.A. just six months after Tupac.

[23:20:00]

And people have speculated about that connection for decades. And the real question is, are we closer to learning the truth tonight? And the answer to who cut short the life of one of hip hop's most legendary trailblazers and artists.

I want to dive in to this with CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson, along with Tre Johnson who writes on race, culture, and politics. I'm so glad to have both of you here. This is very significant. The developments we've seen all of sudden this week, the new bodycam footage as well.

I'll start with you, Joey, because there is some reporting tonight that a detective who's on this case, who testified before the grand jury in September, said that they had a theory that Tupac's murder and the murder of rapper and artist Biggie Smalls may have in fact been related. What do you think about that?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Laura, good to be with you. And so, it remains to be seen, right? What we all know is that certainly, there's an indictment as it relates to Tupac's murder and the police believe, based upon a longstanding investigation, that they have the person who is responsible.

So, at least, as to that, right, an indictment, of course, by a grand jury in Las Vegas, Nevada, of course, what would end up happening is you have 20 grand jurors, twelve of which must concur, that is a reasonable cause to believe, uh, that a crime was committed, in this case the murder of Tupac, and that the defendant, Mr. Davis, committed it. It's not at all a conviction but it's significant. They believe they also have means, motive, and opportunity. What are we talking about? In terms of the motive, we will start there, we know it relates to Mr. Anderson and him being attacked right after the Tyson fight in the hotel. And as a result of that motivation, the motivation was retaliation and payback. The means is the actual weapon, of course, used in that particular case to kill Tupac, and the opportunity was at the traffic light.

So, in answer to your question, certainly, they look -- they think law enforcement does, that there's a connection and that he's guilty, Mr. Davis, of the conspiracy to kill Tupac. We just don't know enough yet as it relates to notorious B.I.G.

COATES: And not knowing all this, even though it has taken this long to arrest an individual. There are questions about whether or not he is accused of actually pulling the trigger or had been a shot caller of some type or concern.

Tre, I want to turn to you here because Davis isn't accused of pulling the trigger, right? He's what they're calling the -- quote -- "shot caller."

TRE JOHNSON, WRITER ON RACE, CULTURE AND POLITICS: Right.

COATES: And you say he has used it as a kind of a dark bragging point. What do you think about whether he should be held responsible for this murder?

JOHNSON: Yeah, it's great to be on with both of you tonight and thanks for having me on to talk about this. This is obviously huge in hip-hop history and in American history. I think for me, you know, one of the things that I think about is just like -- you know, my good friend, Sharanda (ph), she sent me a great "LA Times" piece giving a wider context to this entire murder.

And when you think about Davis, you think about his roots back in Compton, particularly his gang affiliation. You know, in the aftermath of the shooting involving Tupac where he died, you know, there were what was called 10 days of hell in the Compton area where over the course of those 10 days, an additional three people and 10 others were wounded in the aftermath of the gang warfare that kind of erupted as a result of this shooting.

And Davis is someone who is implicated in the connection around the Compton gang affiliation back home and just the way that he has spurred a lot of activity around this.

He has now a longer and wider legacy that doesn't just implicate himself in Tupac's death, but all the trauma and carnage has been left behind in the wake of what has happened because of the longstanding history that kind of got quieted as a result of the death of both Tupac and Biggie, which is like the gang insinuation inside of hip-hop music and record labels.

And so, all this is greatly knotted together. And I think for Davis, I think he was feeling perhaps some level of invincibility around constantly skirting -- you know, he had gone away to prison, but I think this still feels like some type of odd feather in his cap --

COATES: Hmm.

JOHNSON: -- but I think it is overriding the large amounts of carnage that it is left behind because of all this that he's involved in, too.

COATES: You know, that's fascinating, to think about all of the collateral damage and the consequences surrounding even the allegations against this individual, and they are allegations.

Joey, back in 2009, Davis apparently struck a deal with investigators and tell them what he knew about Tupac's murder. And in exchange, statements that he made could not then be used against him in court, a so-called proffer agreement. Will that agreement lead to some problems for prosecutors now that he has been arrested?

JACKSON: So, I'm not sure that it'll lead to problems for prosecutors. It may very well lead for problems with the defense. And let me tell you why.

[23:24:57]

A proffer agreement, so everyone knows, is when the government says, hey, come on in and talk to me, and nothing you say, I'll use against you, don't worry about it. They do that, Laura, as we know, so that you could be candid and you can tell all.

Why do I say it may lead to problems with the defense? It's not all it's cracked up to be. Those statements can, in fact, be used against you. Let's say Davis testifies in this case, says he had nothing to do with it or something else, but in the proffer agreement, he was very candid knowing he would not be prosecuted. Guess what you can do. What excellent prosecutors like you used to do? And that's so you testified or not testify.

But you spoke to prosecutors, right? And you were candid in that discussion and you indicated in that discussion what your involvement is. But today on the stand, you say something different. What am I saying? You could confront them with those statements. And so, therefore, although they can't be used, the proffer to prosecute you per se, it can be used to come back to confront you should you wiggle out of it. So --

COATES: I tell you what.

JACKSON: -- I think it's a pretty powerful tool.

COATES: The only time I'll ever give a defense attorney the last word, cause it's Joey Jackson. Tre Johnson, thank you so much, both of you.

JACKSON: You are kind.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

COATES: Coming up, CNN's presentation of HBO's "Overtime with Bill Maher."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: All right, now, let's turn over to our friends over at HBO because every Friday, after "Real Time with Bill Maher," Bill and his guests answer viewer questions about topics in the national conversation. We're excited to bring you this lively discussion first every Friday night. Here is "Overtime with Bill Maher."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(APPLAUSE)

BILL MAHER, HBO POLITICAL TALK SHOW HOST: Nice, CNN. We missed you these last Friday months (ph). Great to be back. I'm here with editor- at-large of Reason magazine, Matt Welch, and senior editor for "The Dispatch," Sarah Isgur. Okay, Sarah, which one of the Trump indictments do you think is the strongest? Oh, there's so many to choose from.

(LAUGHTER)

SARAH ISGUR, SENIOR EDITOR, THE DISPATCH: But it's a really easy question. It's the Florida case about the classified documents and the obstruction side. You'll notice Trump and his allies never talk about that one. The other cases are all much weaker in a variety of ways, but that Florida case --

MAHER: So, this is the one where he took classified documents and put them by the toilet.

ISGUR: Yeah, yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: Why is that -- why is that such a strong case?

ISGUR: Ah, it's after he's president. There's just no real legal defense to, you know, even if you're really constipated, needing those documents by your toilet.

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: I know what they're going to say, which is Biden did the same thing. He had papers by his Corvette.

MATT WELCH, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, REASON: He didn't defy a subpoena.

MAHER: That's true. Oh, I know that. I'm just saying --

ISGUR: He's not charged with having the documents or taking the documents. He's charged with not giving the documents back. MAHER: Right.

ISGUR: When the government was like, knock, can we have our documents back? What documents?

MAHER: And see, this is what I mean when I always say he's stupid and crazy.

(LAUGHTER)

They're stupid like I think Frederick Douglass is still alive.

(LAUGHTER)

The stealth bomber is literally invisible. You know, health care is -- no one knew it was complicated. Those are stupid. Crazy is this. It's just crazy. It's just a crazy unforced error. Why do it? He wasn't even looking at them. It just was, they're mine. Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

ISGUR: And then when they came as asked for the documents, he said no, and then they tried to move the documents, then he realized that was on camera, and so then he told the guy to flood the server. I mean, it was like --

(LAUGHTER)

-- every step.

MAHER: Okay. Nikki Haley rose in the polls this week. Oh, good for you.

(LAUGHTER)

ISGUR: Nine to 10%, nailing it.

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: Is that what it is? Are there enough establishment voters in the Republican Party for her to become a serious revival -- revival to Trump? Revival?

WELCH: Right.

MAHER: Rival. Oh, okay. Well, we're doing this on the fly, you know. Rival to Trump, yes.

WELCH: Oh, hell, no.

(LAUGHTER)

There was actually a really interesting poll. I recommend people look at the people at FairVote who do ranked choice voting. They had a poll that basically did rank choice with the candidates, a national poll. And so, each time around, you kick someone off the island and then see how it goes until you get to only two left.

And Donald Trump got like 47% or something in the first vote, first round. And then, you know, Doug Burgum goes and Mike Pence goes, ba- ba-ba. He doesn't go up even a little bit. Turns out 47% of Republicans really want Donald Trump to be the president. And he was also number 13 by most people. He was last place.

MAHER: Oh.

WELCH: They please anybody but Donald Trump. He only like gets over the majority when everybody else is wiped out. Nikki Haley does very well in that poll. She comes in second, once you start knocking off Chris Christie's and all these semi-establishment people. She will -- she has the ability maybe to look -- to get some people who want to vote for Trump.

But the only way to get to the republican nomination, and this is why Ron DeSantis still has a chance, although he's absolutely nosedived during this calendar year, is that people who like Ron DeSantis also like Donald Trump sometimes. He can straddle that. Nikki Haley hasn't quite shown that, and the rest of them have no chance.

MAHER: She has really been across the board, though. I remember when the rumor was that they were having an affair. Remember that?

(LAUGHTER)

It was in the first Trump book. Remember that?

ISGUR: I mean --

MAHER: No, I didn't ever believe that either, but she has gone from that to -- I wouldn't even have her on the ticket.

[23:35:01]

ISGUR: Look, I worked for Carly Fiorina in 2016, and we're seeing the exact same problem that we saw then. You can't have these many candidates in the field. That poll, which was fascinating, actually showed in the end that Ron DeSantis could beat Donald Trump by three points if it were only the two of them in the race.

MAHER: Right. Well, okay. So, was anyone surprised that Donald Trump -- boy --

WELCH: No.

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: Wait a second. Leaked intel, oh I read this, on our nuclear submarine program to an Australian businessman. You know what? I'm the last guy to defend Trump. This sounds like B.S. to me. I mean, of course, he does a million things that you shouldn't do, but leaked intel on our nuclear submarine program. I doubt if he knows the first thing about our nuclear system.

(LAUGHTER)

And I -- you know, I don't think he gave away technical secrets. He was just bragging, you know, our submarines. And I'm kind of glad that it gets around the world, that we can kick your ass.

(LAUGHTER)

ISGUR: This is the problem where you think Trump is like evil and stupid, like it's kind of one of the other, like he's an evil genius.

MAHER: No, crazy and stupid.

ISGUR: Not yours, I'm just saying other people.

MAHER: Oh.

ISGUR: Like you can't believe he's like the super genius who knows everything about our nuclear subs, but also --

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: Right.

ISGUR: -- he's a moron who like doesn't know --

MAHER: Right, exactly.

ISGUR: -- like left and right, like it can't be both.

MAHER: Right. Okay. All right. Uh, what is the --

(LAUGHTER)

What does the panel think of California Governor Newsom repealing the law that banned doctors from sharing unapproved COVID information? Well, of course, I love it. They should have never done in the first place.

(APPLAUSE)

Doctors should be able to speak freely. The media should be the watchdog of what's going on in the government, not the megaphone, not the amplifier of it.

ISGUR: I can't believe you brought up this case because I'm really obsessed with this idea that Newsom and DeSantis are actually, you know, different sides of the same coin when it comes to civil liberties like free speech.

MAHER: Right.

ISGUR: Newsom is banning doctors from saying something about COVID that he doesn't personally believe to be true.

MAHER: Well, now, he's not. ISGUR: Okay, well, Corden joined him first, so, you know, okay. And at the same time, you know, DeSantis down in Florida is telling teachers that they can't, you know, teach certain things at universities. Like, how about just the First Amendment? I'm pro that.

(APPLAUSE)

MAHER: Yeah.

WELCH: I'll also say that Gavin Newsom wanting to run for president is the best thing that can happen to Californians --

(APPLAUSE)

-- because he'll make a better governor that way.

MAHER: I'd say the same thing.

WELCH: Yeah.

MAHER: I think he's a great politician. I'm going to try to get him to run for president in 15 years. It would force him to go to the center like this kind of stuff.

ISGUR: And that brief I mentioned at the Supreme Court where he now wants to like have a different homeless policy, he's moving to the center on all sorts of stuff.

MAHER: And he can win. You know what? It doesn't hurt to have a dreamy candidate.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

I'm not -- I'm sorry.

ISGUR: I don't know, that bearskin rug photo like really weirds me out.

MAHER: The what?

ISGUR: The --

(LAUGHTER)

MAHER: What photo?

ISGUR: The photo with him and --

WELCH: Kimberly Guilfoyle.

ISGUR: -- Kimberly Guilfoyle where he's like on the bearskin rug and it's like really -- I don't know. Not my type. What can I say?

MAHER: All right. (LAUGHTER)

Should the Senate have loosened the dress code to allow for John Fetterman's shorts and casual attire? No. This --

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

I mean, that was so ridiculous. I mean, I can't -- what is this with John Fetterman? Come on, man. If you haven't seen it, he looks like Kevin Smith.

(LAUGHTER)

Remember Kevin -- the hockey shirt? Shorts in the Senate? I mean, what is it? What point is this making? What is the point of this? I never got it.

WELCH: I'm so torn between my hatred of rules and institutions --

(LAUGHTER)

-- and my hatred of inappropriate -- or people who dress like me on weekends. Being in the Senate, that's bad. We don't want -- we don't want people who look like me.

MAHER: It was such a stunt. It's like, oh, I'm the man of the people. But you know what? You know what the people actually have to do? Dress.

WELCH: Yeah, for work.

MAHER: Yeah, dress for work.

(APPLAUSE)

All right.

ISGUR: This is some of the luxury, good stuff. This idea that you're a man of the people, he comes from an incredibly privileged background.

MAHER: Right.

ISGUR: He has never like been faced with being fired for not wearing something right to work, and then, you know, that's what you get.

MAHER: Well, the people who are always going on about privilege always have the privilege to be impractical in every possible way.

(LAUGHTER)

We got to go. Thank you, CNN. We'll see you next week.

(APPLAUSE) (END VIDEOTAPE)

COATES: Well, you can watch "Real Time with Bill Maher" on Friday nights on HBO at 10 p.m. and then watch "Overtime" right here on CNN, Friday nights at 11:30.

Well, like it or not, Taylor Swift is bringing a whole lot of new attention to football.

[23:39:58]

But is all the distraction, well, is all but a distraction from the big issues the NFL is facing? Two-time NFL Super Bowl champion Malcolm Jenkins has thoughts about all those issues, and I'll talk to him, next.

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COATES: Well, the NFL is quite the big topic of discussion, at least in recent weeks. You know you've got Taylor Swift bringing a whole surge of attention. She appeared at this week's Sunday night football game between the Kansas City Chiefs and the New York Jets to cheer on Chiefs player and rumored relationship person, who knows what it really is, Travis Kelce. There were actual record ratings for the game with 27 million viewers tuning in.

[23:45:03]

That makes it the most watched Sunday game since the Super Bowl back in February. But for the perhaps truest of football fans and those who've been watching for very different reasons, the big question is, is that distracting from all of the big issues facing the NFL? Very important issues like political protests and the intersection of race.

I've got the perfect guest to talk about all of that tonight. Joining me now, two-time NFL Super Bowl champion, Malcolm Jenkins. He's also the author of the brand-new book, "What Winners Won't Tell You: Lessons from a Legendary Defender," and it is hitting shelves this very week.

Malcolm, I'm so excited to talk to you. Congratulations on this brand- new book.

MALCOLM JENKINS, NFL SUPER BOWL CHAMPION, AUTHOR: Thank you.

COATES: Everyone cannot wait to read it.

JENKINS: Yeah, I'm excited. I definitely -- you know, I wrote it myself from cover to cover. So, I really wanted to contextualize, you know, what I experienced in my 13 years in the NFL, kind of tying those -- those knots between, you know, the man you guys see today and all of the moments throughout my life that, you know, made me into who I am, both the pitfalls and the successes.

But it's really a fresh look at all of these things that we've seen so publicly. I unveil some of my own struggles with family and finances, but also how I navigated those spaces with mental health challenges and everything.

COATES: You are very open about the ebbs and flows of success and what this whole thing takes to actually be who you are, but also what is happening behind the scenes. I think that's probably part of the most poignant aspects of this incredible new book, Malcolm.

And one part that people have honed in on in recent years for the NFL and their interest has been about the intersection of race and the sport. And in fact, Colin Kaepernick is but one example. And you, of course, have begun an advocacy organization within the NFL at one point.

And you mentioned Kaepernick in your book. I want to read a part of it. It says, I was inspired by the momentum that had been created by his stance. This type of groundswell of coverage and eyeballs hadn't really been seen before, and we had an opportunity in our hands to grasp it if we could organize. I just hadn't anticipated that organizing would be so damn difficult.

And of course, Kaepernick is not the only issue on race the NFL is dealing with. It's also facing a discrimination lawsuit from Brian Flores and another former NFL network reporter, Jim Trotter. When you look at and contextualize all of this, does the NFL have a race problem and can they fix it?

JENKINS: Yeah, I think, you know, America has a race problem. Therefore, every, you know, entity and structure within it usually is going to reflect that. And the NFL is no exception to that. You know, I think, you know, over the last since 2016, this has been a hot topic, whether it's the on-field protests, whether we're looking at the amount of head coaches and GMs, presidents that are African- American or any diverse background. There's definitely very little, you know, diversity in the ownership group.

But I do think we've seen them move their stance quite a bit since those days in 2016, obviously, with much more branding, much more -- open to players and societal issues. But I still think there's a lot of things that can be approved on. you know, the coaching this year has been -- there are more Black coaches now than probably we've ever seen. With more Black quarterbacks starting than we've ever seen.

But I do think that there are constantly these issues that are still kind of lingering. We still -- and that's because of the ownership, right? There's -- at the top of the NFL, there's very little diversity. So, until you start to see some of those changes, there's always going to be, you know, these issues that are going to be pointed out.

COATES: You write a lot about what that feels like on the field, off and on, about that impact, that leverage, that power dynamic, the sentiment. Speaking of quarterbacks, of course, you well know that Kaepernick wrote a letter to New York Jets offering his service after Aaron Rodgers got knocked out for the season. Think he should get a chance to play?

JENKINS: I mean, should and willy (ph) is two different things. I think we all are rooting for Kaepernick, right? We know, in my opinion, that he was blackballed and pushed out of his career prematurely because of his stance. And so, for that, you would love to see him have an opportunity.

But here we stand seven years, you know, removed from that moment. And if this were not Kaepernick, any athlete that was out of their career for seven years, I would probably tell to hang it up, right? It's just -- that's just a long period of time. So, realistically speaking, I don't know that we'll ever see him put on a uniform again, which is unfortunate because of what he sacrificed his career for. But obviously, we all hope for the best.

COATES: Stranger things have happened, as you know.

[23:49:58]

And in this book, you talk about, because you know what it takes to be successful in a sport, that's as mentally and as physically taxing as football, and you are just as successful off the field, I might mention, you're very humble in your approach to discussing it, but you also go into great detail about life outside of football and what the game has inspired and what you've taken away. What do you want readers to take away from your book?

JENKINS: Well, I want readers to understand that, you know, life in and of itself is a game, right? It's a journey. Most of us, we like to wait until we see the finished product, until we get the victory to celebrate, to enjoy things or feel like we've accomplished something.

But people who are really successful and consistently successful understand that the joy of life and the process of the game is in the act of playing, in the act of actively living out your life day in and day out. That means you're going to take the good with the bad, you're going to learn from the wins and the losses, and continue to push forward.

COATES: Truth is so powerful, and I'm glad you're telling it. Malcolm Jenkins, thank you so much. Everyone, the book again is called "What Winners Won't Tell You: Lessons from a Legendary Defender." We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Before we leave you tonight, I want to take a moment to applaud the incredible, incomparable Simone Biles. Today, she won the women's individual all-around gold medal at the World Artistic Gymnastics Championships for her sixth time in her career. She is now the winningest gymnast, male or female, in the sports history.

And that comes two years after she pulled out of several events at the Tokyo Olympics, suffering from what's known as the twisties, a mental block causing a gymnast to lose track of their positions in midair. Well, look at her now.

Everyone, thank you for watching. Our coverage continues.

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