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George W. Bush Defends Waterboarding; Alleged Child Trafficking Ring; Bribery in Freight Shipping Countries
Aired November 09, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZANE VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: George W. Bush says the U.S. was right to use waterboarding to interrogate terrorist suspects. The former U.S. president says it helped save lives at London's Heathrow Airport.
But is it torture and should it ever have been used to stop attacks?
Going beyond borders on the day's biggest stories, on CNN, this is the hour we connect the world.
George W. Bush says the use of waterboarding was legal, but that didn't stop the Obama administration following other countries by banning it.
Joining the dots in London, hi, there.
I'm Zain Verjee.
Also tonight, Somali gang members are arrested in the U.S., accused of trafficking young girls for sex.
But is it just the tip of the iceberg?
And why one of Pakistan's top cricketers has fled for his life after refusing to fix matches.
Remember to follow the show, OK, on Facebook. Just head to Facebook.com/cnnconnect.
Nearly two years after leaving office, the former U.S. president, George W. Bush, is speaking out for the first time. His memoir, "Decision Points," is out today. It covers the most controversial parts of his presidency, from September 11th to the invasion of Iraq.
And in his first round of interviews, he admits that he personally authorized waterboarding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY NBC)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We believe America is going to be attacked again. There's all kinds of intelligence coming in. And -- and -- and one of the high value al Qaeda operatives was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, its chief operating officer or al Qaeda who ordered the attack on 9/11. And I -- they said, he's got information. I said, "Find out what he knows."
And so I said to our team, "Are the techniques legal?"
And a legal teams says, yes, they are. And I said, "Use them."
MATT LAUER, HOST: Why is waterboarding legal, in your opinion?
BUSH: Because the lawyers said it was legal. They said it did not fall within the -- the Anti-Torture Act. I'm not a lawyer and -- but you've got to trust the judgment of people around you and I do.
LAUER: You say it's legal and the lawyers told me...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: Waterboarding is a controversial interrogation technique. Human rights activists say it is torture. Here's how it works. Basically, a prisoner is strapped to a board with his or her head inclined downward and then the mouth and nose are covered with a cloth and water is repeatedly poured over the face to create the sensation that they're drowning.
The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency says that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and two others were waterboarded. The first was Abu Zubaydah, an al Qaeda figure arrested in Pakistan back in 2002. He was suspected of planning an attack on Los Angeles International Airport. And the other was Abd al- Rahim al-Nashiri, who was the suspected mastermind of the attack on the USS Cole in 2000. Seventeen U.S. sailors were killed then.
But those names may be the last, as U.S. policy on waterboarding has now totally changed.
CNN's Chris Lawrence joins us now from the Pentagon -- hey, Chris.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Zain, yes, you know, a lot of people probably think of waterboarding as being done much more than it -- than it actually was. Actually, U.S. officials say that they publicly, it was used three times, in the three instances you mentioned. Some CIA officials say it was used perhaps up to a dozen times, but only by specially trained teams that were trained in the use of these procedures.
And it wasn't just waterboarding. It was part of six what was called enhanced interrogation procedures. They were now put into place to basically allow the government to go after some of these high value targets. And some of the -- the waterboarding and other techniques like that were conducted at these secret interrogation sites in Europe, in Asia.
Since waterboarding was taken off the table back during the Bush administration, probably the most extreme technique that's now available to interrogators would be what's called long time standing, in which a prisoner is shackled with his feet to the floor and made to stand for up to, say, you know, 40 hours. Sleep deprivation and exhaustion has been known to produce information.
VERJEE: Chris, what was some of the rationale that the Obama administration used to outlaw waterboarding?
LAWRENCE: Well, flat out, Zain, he said it was torture. His attorney general, Eric Holder, during his confirmation hearing, said he also believed that waterboarding was torture. And he said the president would have no authorization to allow it or condone it.
President Obama said it went against, quote, "the ideals and the values of the United States." And he felt that they could still get the same information without using that technique.
Just back in the spring, one of the top intelligence officials in the Obama administration was asked, has the ban on waterboarding hindered your efforts to get certain information?
And he said, not at all -- Zain.
VERJEE: CNN's Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon.
Former U.S. President Bush, though, is really defending how his administration interrogated those prisoners. He's saying that the information from those sessions stopped terror attacks in the United States as soon as overseas.
In his new book he writes this: "Their interrogations helped break up plots to attack American diplomatic facilities abroad, Heathrow Airport and Canary Wharf in London."
So if it's true that waterboarding stopped terror attacks and they saved innocent lives, does it make it OK?
Joining me now in London is Clive Stafford Smith, the founder of Reprieve, which fights for prisoners' human rights.
And from Harvard Law School in the U.S., author Alan Dershowitz, who has a new book out that deals with torture, "The Trials of Zion."
Thank you so much, both of you, for being with us.
Clive, let's start with you.
Is waterboarding torture?
CLIVE STAFFORD SMITH, DIRECTOR, REPRIEVE; HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Well, I think it clearly is. When you -- when you listen to what Donald Rumsfeld said, the reason they were using these techniques was to, quote, "break people." Well, I don't know what you mean by breaking people if it isn't breaking people and that's torture.
So, yes, it is. But there are far more significant things, I think, than waterboarding.
VERJEE: Alan Dershowitz, do you think it's OK if it saved lives?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL, AUTHOR, "THE TRIALS OF ZION": Well, first of all, waterboarding is torture. And second of all, it's perfectly OK to break people. That's the goal of interrogation, as long as you break them by lawful means.
Waterboarding is torture. I don't believe anything I've heard so far on this show. Number one, I don't believe that it was only used in a limited number of cases.
Number two, I don't believe that the Obama administration would not torture if they had a ticking bomb terrorist case, which could cause the death of thousands of people.
I think when we talk about torture, we talk about hypocrisy. Everybody is a hypocrite. Nobody is willing to face up to the reality that every administration in every country in the world will use torture if they feel it's the only way of stopping a terrorist attack.
Bill Clinton was the only president who was candid about it. He said if he were presented with a ticking bomb terrorist case, he would use torture, he would seek to get a torture warrant, he would seek the approval of the judiciary...
DERSHOWITZ: -- the Bush administration used torture promiscuously. They used it repeatedly. That led to Abu Ghraib.
VERJEE: But Alan...
DERSHOWITZ: So I...
VERJEE: -- what...
DERSHOWITZ: -- so I -- I don't think you believe what you're hearing.
VERJEE: What if you use torture and you -- you basically get information that's even not true, because there have been instances where - - where people, you know, just say stuff because of the pain.
DERSHOWITZ: Well, you never...
VERJEE: I mean...
DERSHOWITZ: -- you never use torture.
VERJEE: -- any...
DERSHOWITZ: You never use torture -- you never use torture in that way. We -- if you're going to use it -- and I would never recommend it -- you tell people that you're going to torture them until they take you to the bomb. It has to be self-proving. Nobody would ever believe anything said under torture. But torture does work sometimes. We know that during the Nazi regime...
DERSHOWITZ: -- the Nazis tortured French Resistance members into the disclosing the location of the colleagues. And it worked.
VERJEE: Do you agree with that, Clive?
SMITH: Well, I mean, obviously, if you tortured me, I'd tell you what my name was. But the real problem with the times we've done it and it hasn't been the self-proving. And the best example is Ibn Sheikh al-Libi. And this is one that George Bush authorized. And he doesn't like to talk about this, because they rendered Sheikh al-Libi to Egypt and they tortured him with electrodes there.
And sure enough, he said what they wanted to hear, which was that Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda were in league with weapons of mass destruction.
George Bush quoted that stuff and that was one of the legs on which we went to war. And we've got many, many dead people later.
And I know Alan doesn't disagree with me on this. This is insanity...
DERSHOWITZ: No, I don't...
SMITH: -- that we're doing that. And -- and I...
DERSHOWITZ: Of course.
SMITH: Of course.
VERJEE: What about the legality here?
DERSHOWITZ: The only...
VERJEE: Could we...
DERSHOWITZ: -- the only course...
VERJEE: Alan -- Alan, can you -- can you have legal torture?
That's something that you've been pushing.
DERSHOWITZ: Well, no. The -- the legality is so hypocritical. You know, everybody votes against torture. Egypt condemns torture. Jordan condemns torture. The Palestinian Authority condemns torture. The United States condemns torture and everybody uses it. The British would use torture if they ever had a ticking bomb situation. The Australian prime minister essentially told me that if he could have stopped the Bali attack, he would have done anything necessary to do it.
SMITH: There's the whole...
DERSHOWITZ: What does legality mean?
It's against the law, but every democracy in the world will do it if their back is against the wall.
And the question is, do we want to keep up the pretense of hypocrisy and say we'll never, never, never do it under any circumstances?
Or should we, instead, have a torture warrant procedure where in extraordinary situations, you might be able to get permission to use limited forms to elicit, as a last resort, life saving information. That's the option.
SMITH: Well, and the option -- and I think, Alan, when you and I talked about this some -- a couple of years ago, you agreed back then that it's one thing discussing this in the format of -- of a classroom. It's another thing discussing it in the real world. And the problem, of course, is if we've got people -- and I agree that people are hypocritical on this.
But if they're using torture already, when it's illegal, then is it going to make it used less to make it legal?
And I think the big problem of the last few years has -- is that a conversation that once was not one we would have and we would, you know, look down at people has now become one that we're having publicly, should we torture people?
And the bottom line is that almost all the time, no, we shouldn't. And it would be much better, actually, I -- I'm afraid, Alan, I'd rather have a little hypocrisy here. I'd rather have people say we're totally against torture and that we tried to push those Nazi regimes, who use it far too much, away from us.
VERJEE: Is the world more dangerous...
DERSHOWITZ: Well, that's the difference between us.
VERJEE: -- or...
VERJEE: Is the world more dangerous or -- or safer with torture?
SMITH: Oh, gosh, it's so much more dangerous, because there's another side to it. It's one thing if I say, if I torture you, I'm going to get information out of you, as President Bush does. I think most of the things he's been talking about today are, I mean the legal term, is just total drivel.
But -- but there's another side to it. And you may make it -- you may stop one particular act by using torture, but your -- your hypocrisy in saying that we're in favorite of democracy and the rule of law, but here we are torturing people, angers so many folk, that you provoke other people into other acts.
SMITH: And so we end up creating...
DERSHOWITZ: I don't believe...
SMITH: -- far more violence.
DERSHOWITZ: I don't believe that. I don't believe that for one second. I think terrorists commit terror not because we torture, but they commit terror because that's part of their culture and philosophy and approach to life. I don't think anything we do has any real impact on whether terrorism occurs.
SMITH: Oh, that's totally, totally not true.
DERSHOWITZ: I think that in a democracy -- in a demo -- well, that's an empirical issue and I would challenge...
SMITH: It's not -- no, Alan...
DERSHOWITZ: -- your
SMITH: -- I'll give you an...
DERSHOWITZ: -- data on that.
SMITH: -- an empirical...
VERJEE: let him finish.
DERSHOWITZ: We can look at the data, but let me -- let me make my point. I think the question is, in a democracy, if you're going to do anything, you have to do it openly, with accountability and without hypocrisy so that the public can know what you're doing, the public can judge you by it. The Bush administration was the worst of all possible worlds. It encouraged torture, it denied it, it did it underneath the veil of secrecy.
Clinton said if he ever did it, he would do it openly, with accountability. Thomas Jefferson, one of the founders of America, said sometimes it's necessary to break the law to preserve the nation. But if we're going to do it, we have to do it openly and with accountability. And I do not think if we did it openly, with accountability, it would change what Egypt is doing or what Jordan is doing and what other countries are doing. They're doing what they're doing for their own reasons. And we ought to live by our own standards.
VERJEE: Clive, you disagree?
SMITH: I'm not...
VERJEE: A final word.
SMITH: I'm going to give you the statistics on it. And this comes from a CIA agent, who said that for each person we're abusing in Guantanamo Bay, there's 10 people out there who have been so provoked by our hypocrisy that they're going to go out and blow us up, too. These sorts of things don't make...
DERSHOWITZ: I don't think
SMITH: -- it safer.
DERSHOWITZ: That's just -- that's the
DERSHOWITZ: -- the kind of false propaganda that we're hearing from all sides...
VERJEE: And that's...
DERSHOWITZ: It's not true.
VERJEE: And those are the two key points a lot of people make when you're talking about waterboarding and about torture.
Thank you so much for being with us, Alan Dershowitz and Clive Stafford Smith.
SMITH: Thank you.
VERJEE: Thank you.
Former U.S. president, George W. Bush, has loads more to say about all of this to Candy Crowley. You can watch that interview, OK?
It airs on Monday. It's on "STATE OF THE UNION" at 10:00 a.m. In London.
US authorities say Somali-American gangs are behind a cross-country child trafficking ring. We're going to bring you the details of the crackdown that rounded up dozens of suspects.
And later, he says he's running from death threats after refusing to help fix matches. We're going to bring you the very latest on the Pakistani cricketer, Zulqarnain Haider.
VERJEE: That's our priority on this show, is staying on top of human trafficking. We're committed to exposing these crimes wherever they happen.
The latest case takes us to the United States, where officials there are saying that 29 people are facing charges for allegedly trafficking girls for sex, some of them younger than 13. All defendants are said to be part of Somali-American gangs. Authorities say they trafficked girls from Minneapolis, Minnesota, which has a large Somali immigration community, to Nashville in Tennessee, over a 10 year period.
In a separate crackdown, U.S. federal authorities say that they busted child prose -- pros -- prostitution rings in 40 cities across the country.
Now, what they say is they recovered 69 children and arrested nearly 900 people, including 99 pimps.
Eric Wilkinson reports from Seattle, the city that saw the biggest number of child prostitutes rescued from the streets.
MELINDA GIOVENGO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, YOUTHCARE: In that group, I can see three young people right off the bat who I would see as prone or -- or -- or basically vulnerable.
ERIC WILKINSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Westlake Center, the heart of downtown Seattle and the recruiting headquarters for child prostitutes, where homeless, desperate kids congregate.
GIOVENGO: That makes me sick. You know, it's heartbreaking to watch a child inducted into this kind of lifestyle at that early age.
WILKINSON: Melinda Giovengo and Leslie Briner work for Youth Care. Their mission -- recovering kids from prostitution. They say children as young as 12 years old are being sold on Seattle streets, recruited everywhere from MySpace and malls to middle schools. The latest trends -- gangs now getting involved.
LESLIE BRINER, YOUTHCARE: The gangs have found that, unfortunately, people are a renewable resource. And you can sell an ounce of cocaine and it's gone. But you can sell a girl again and again and again.
WILKINSON: This weekend, police across the country swept the streets, rescuing 69 children and arresting nearly 900 johns, pimps and their associates. This video from an SPD sweep a few years ago where a 13 girl was recovered. The FBI says young girls selling their bodies represent a cross section of America.
STEVEN DEAN, FBI, SEATTLE: They're everybody's kids. Some of them are -- before they were involved in prostitution, were A -- A students.
WILKINSON: But there is hope. Youth Care spearheaded a new partnership between police, prosecutors, politicians and outreach workers. They established the Prostituted Youth Recovery Fund and have already put six girls in long-term treatment in just five months.
GIOVENGO: And by offering that hope, we actually have given them a pathway out of this darkness.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
VERJEE: Raids like the ones we just heard about take a lot of planning and coordination.
Earlier, I spoke to Kevin Perkins, who is the assistant director of the FBI's criminal investigative division.
I began by asking about the sting operations that took the ring down.
KEVIN PERKINS, FBI CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: These types of investigations really focus on the victim. We're more concerned about getting child victims off the streets. That's our number one priority. So we try to identify the victims, get them out of these situations and hopefully improve their lives before they're injured.
VERJEE: Well, with 69 kids here, can you tell us a little bit about what -- what they've said to you, if you talked to them, and where they are now?
PERKINS: These children, once they are taken out of harm's way, are turned over to the individual social service agencies, depending on the state in which they live, so that they are placed into a protective custody environment and they're taken out of harm's way.
VERJEE: And what happens to them now, after this?
PERKINS: At this point, the social service agencies in -- in the particular states...
PERKINS: -- will go through their protocols in an effort to re-place them either in a safe environment or in the home in which they came from.
VERJEE: There was also a separate operation, I -- I'd like to talk a little bit about that involved 29 people connected to Somali gangs over trafficking.
What can you tell us about that operation?
PERKINS: Well, there's a little bit of difference in what we're looking at. Whereas the child sex exploitation was focusing specifically on -- on underage individuals here in the States, the human trafficking aspect not only deals with the sexual exploitation of minors, but it also with migrant farm workers, with indentured servant -- indentured servitude type situations.
So they're -- they're really inves -- they're both investigated by the FBI. But in this case, it was two separate issues.
VERJEE: And with the second one, can you tell us any more about what countries they may have been trafficked from?
PERKINS: Now, in -- in this case, some of them are here in the States. Others are from -- from the Somali community.
VERJEE: How big a problem is -- is trafficking in the United States?
PERKINS: It -- it's a sizeable -- it's a sizeable enough problem that the FBI is dedicating substantial resources toward it. We especially look, for instance, in the migrant farm work in the area. We've had some large cases recently on the West Coast and in Hawaii that have been successes for us in freeing these individuals who have been lured to the United States and then placed into servitude positions.
VERJEE: Is there any sense that some of the girls in Operation Cross Country 5 that -- that you managed to free from the prostitution ring were also trafficked?
PERKINS: There's a possibility, not for -- not internationally trafficked. The individuals in -- in the case over the weekend, out of the now 70 individuals that we rescued, I believe all but one or two were United States citizens. And I think the other may have come from Mexico.
VERJEE: You busted this ring. You've got so many different challenges on the horizon. Give us -- give us a little bit about -- about the difficulties that you confront, because you were successful here, but there's a lot more still out there.
PERKINS: There -- you're correct. There is a lot more out there. As long as there's just one out there under age, we're going to fight to find them and rescue them. And the key to all these is the cooperation we have with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, as well as the nearly 200 federal or other state and local law enforcement agencies across the country who partner with us and not just work as we did this past weekend, but work every day of the year toward identifying these children and rescuing them from the streets.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
VERJEE: Kevin Perkins, an assistant director of the FBI's criminal investigative division.
After the break, it's the corruption scandal raising so many difficult questions about air freight security. And we're going to take a look at how a global shipper admits to bribing government officials all over the world and why experts are warning such payoffs could create the hole in security that terrorists are looking for.
And it's probably not quite the reception he was hoping for -- accused of oppressing Muslims -- find out why U.S. President Barack Obama reacted to these protests over his visit to Indonesia, after this.
VERJEE: They knew it was coming, but today the figures are out and they are big. Some of the world's top airlines have been fined more than a billion dollars -- punished by the European Commission for price fixing. Eleven air cargo carriers were found to be operating a worldwide cartel, coordinating their actions on surcharges for fuel and security without discounts over a six year period.
Those topping the list for individual fines, Air France, KLM, British Airways, Cargolux, Singapore Airlines and SAS.
Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD.
We're flying you around the world this week and looking at all things aviation.
We began in Islamabad, putting air cargo security under the microscope. Our Reza Sayah took a look at just how much information anyone can access online by tracking his parcel minute by minute across the world all from his home computer.
Tonight, it's another vulnerability for the air cargo industry, which no amount of security or new technology can stop.
Allan Chernoff that's a look at why it's now the freight shipping companies that are in the spotlight as shocking cases of bribery come out.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Bribing government officials overseas, Panalpina, a global air freight shipper, admits it did that for five years, making thousands of bribes worth $27 million to government officials in at least seven countries, including Angola, Nigeria, Russia. Not only is it a violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, but in today's world, experts say it raises troubling questions about air freight security.
CHERNOFF (voice-over): A payoff, warns the former commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, could be the security hole that permits a dangerous package onto a plane.
JAY AHERN, CHERTOFF GROUP: Corruption is a problem to any security strategy. It can certainly undermine the various elements of a comprehensive strategy.
CHERNOFF: Panalpina paid bribes from 2002 to 2007 to avoid inspection, documentation requirements and customs duties. Its settlement with the government will cost almost $82 million. The company says it has reformed so that "our guiding principle is to act in an ethical manner and to comply with all laws and regulations."
The bribe factor, Ahern says, magnifies the urgency of strengthening intelligence-based security, as opposed to technology, which can be bypassed through illegal payoffs.
AHERN: One hundred percent screening does not equal 100 percent security.
CHERNOFF: That is especially the case with large retailer shippers, like FedEx and UPS that accept packages from almost anyone.
(on camera): Some small shippers, though, know exactly whom they're dealing with and what they're packaging. Racine Berkow, for example, works for museums around the globe. She knows exactly what goes into these crates.
Racine, do you think that screening absolutely all packages is going to really help air security?
RACINE BERKOW, FINE ART SHIPPER: Well, I don't think so, particularly for the kind of commodity that we ship. It's redundant. It also can create unnecessary handling of the objects, you know, as well as additional expense.
CHERNOFF: Small shippers like Berkow say the added expense of extra layers of security could put them out of business. That, combined with the risk of bribes, say experts, are reasons that good intelligence is as important as good technology in improving air cargo security.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
VERJEE: You're watching the show that joins the dots on the big stories all around the world.
And next up, have you ever heard of Barry Soetoro?
You have, just think about it, OK?
That's this guy on the right.
Stay with us as we trace the Indonesian footsteps of the little boy who grew up to become one of the most powerful men in the world.
VERJEE: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Hi, I'm Zain Verjee in London. Coming up, Barack Obama's trip to Indonesia cut short. We're going to take a look at the events that have marred the US president's visit to the country he once called home.
Another crisis for the Pakistan cricket team, as wicket-keeper, Zuklarnaim Haider, flees to London. We'll tell you what's behind the start cricketer's shocked decision to up stumps.
And then, find out how the son of a lumber merchant became one of the world's most celebrated chefs. We speak to the culinary genius who needs little introduction. He's simply known as Nobu, and he's your Connector of the Day.
All those stories just ahead for you, but first, a check of the headlines.
Former US president George W. Bush is standing behind his decision to approve waterboarding on three terror suspects. In his new memoir, Bush says those interrogations thwarted terror plots in London and on US facilities abroad, and also on targets inside the US.
Cholera has reached Haiti's capital, and health officials are warning it could spread quickly through the earthquake refugee camps. A three- year-old Port-au-Prince boy has the potentially fatal illness, and dozens of other city residents are suspected of being infected. Health officials say so far, cholera has killed 583 Haitians.
British prime minister David Cameron's visiting Beijing, trying to boost trade ties with China. Discussions are also expected on a whole range of topics, like finance, energy, and education. The ambassador to the UK calls it the largest ever British delegation to China.
Christians in the Iraqi capital have been targeted again. Officials say bombs were left outside three Christian homes in western Baghdad and detonated Tuesday evening. At least three people were wounded. Arwa Damon joins us now, live from CNN Baghdad with more on that. Arwa?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Zain. And we actually spoke to one of the relatives whose family's homes had been targeted in that attack that you mentioned. He said that a little girl also had been wounded.
And then he spoke about just how frustrated and emotionally challenged he felt. Because he said that at the end of the day, Iraq was his home, this was where he had grown up his entire life, this is where he had his job. But right now he felt, effectively, as if he was paralyzed. Should he stay, or should he leave?
And that has been the sentiment that we have been hearing throughout the Christian community that we've been talking to, especially since that devastating and horrifying attack that took place on the church last Sunday. The hostage-taking that left at least 51 people dead and two of the priests dead as well, Zain.
VERJEE: Just on that, Arwa, that October 31st attack, do you have any update on that?
DAMON: We were actually at the church the Sunday following the attack, and it was very chilling, but at the same time, very inspiring. Chilling in that we stood inside the church and we could still see the bloodstains on the walls, we could see blood splattered all the way up to the ceiling.
But at the same time, we also saw the resilience of the Christian community here, where people still showed up at church, at mass, a week later, knowing that they were still under attack. People say that they were not going to allow terror to prevail, they would not allow terrorists to drive them out of their country.
Bearing in mind that it was the Islamic State of Iraq, the al Qaeda- affiliated organization that took responsibility for that attack and said that right now, Christians throughout the entire region were a legitimate target. But people we spoke to there were saying, no, they were not going to leave.
But at the same time, we spoke to other leaders within the Christian community who said that they were seeing members of the community leaving in droves, and that this has been going on for months, now. Christians have effectively been targeted since the onset of this war, Zain.
VERJEE: CNN's Arwa Damon in Baghdad.
Volcanic ash from Mount Merapi has forced Barack Obama to cut short his visit to Indonesia, the country he once called home. The US president on a ten-day trip to Asia with a mission to strengthen ties right across the region and boost American jobs.
But his visit wasn't really welcomed by everyone. An estimated 20,000 people protested ahead of Mr. Obama's arrival, accusing him of oppressing Muslims. Just listen to how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With respect to outreach to the Muslim world, I think that our efforts have been earnest, sustained. We don't expect that we are going to completely eliminate some of the misunderstandings and mistrust that have developed over a long period of time. But we do think that we're on the right path.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: Senior International Correspondent Dan Rivers has been on the path of the Obama in Indonesia, and he explains why he's there.
DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): It was third time lucky for President Obama, who finally managed to make this trip after having twice postponed it because of the health care bill, and then the BP oil spill. President Obama was welcomed by the Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono at an official ceremony at the presidential palace.
He then went on to an official dinner, and the two presidents spoke about the purpose of this trip, putting jobs and trade at the top of the agenda. They've officially inked a comprehensive partnership document that has been months in the making, but now is finally coming into practice.
That brings together a whole raft of different policy initiatives, wrapping together policies on global climate change, on stopping piracy, on combating terrorism and improving jobs and trade, increasing education partnerships and scholarships to the US.
Trade is important for Indonesia with the US. It's the second biggest trading partner after Japan, but there's still a lot of room for improvement on both sides, according to the two presidents, to boost trade numbers between the two countries.
The president is due to make a major symbolic speech, as well, at a university tomorrow, local time, when he'll speak before some 6,000 Indonesians touching on bridging partnerships and bridging -- fostering greater links with the Muslim community before flying on to the G20 summit in Seoul. Dan Rivers, CNN, Jakarta.
VERJEE: The president's visit to Indonesia is also really personal, because he lived there for four of his formative years. White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux went back to Obama's old neighborhood and met some of his childhood friends.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Barack Obama lived in Jakarta, Indonesia, he was Barry Soetoro, the big kid with the big smile, always running around with the neighborhood boys.
INDRA MADEWA, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF OBAMA: Running and bicycle and make the kite every day.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Indra Madewa was his friend, who lived around the corner from Obama's first home.
MADEWA: Barry is very energetic.
MALVEAUX (on camera): Energetic?
MADEWA: Energetic boy. And then, Obama is a lot of eating.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Obama's first house in Jakarta, where he lived for three years, is largely hidden behind concrete.
MADEWA: This is -- the original wall.
MALVEAUX (on camera): Oh, the original wall?
MALVEAUX: OK. And they're painting the street now.
MALVEAUX: His home.
MEDEWA: I think the street is --
MALVEAUX: For his arrival, yes?
MEDEWA: I think so.
MALVEAUX (on camera): Yes. For the last 40 years, a dirt road leading to Obama's home. Now, a makeover, with friendly neighbors eager to see the six-year-old who grew up to become the American president.
Just down the street is Obama's first elementary school, a Catholic school, St. Francis of Assisi. Obama's first grade teacher remembers a sweet kid who helped her erase the blackboard.
ISRAELLA PAREIERA DHARMAWAN, OBAMA'S FORMER SCHOOLTEACHER (through translator): His mother took him to school every day. She walked him to the front gate. Obama was a good listener.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): She says within four months, Barry began to speak a few words in the local language. She likes to think his success now has something to do with his Indonesian experience.
DHARMAWAN (through translator): His attitude, his leadership, maybe comes from the neighborhood he used to live. Menteng-Dalam is a small area, but full of diversity in every aspect. That might affect his personality as a president.
MALVEAUX: When his family moved into a more upscale neighborhood, nine-year-old Barry went to the Basuki school. It's a public school that, during the US presidential campaign, some news outlets incorrectly labeled as a madrassa, or radical Muslim school. His classmates here recall Obama stood out in many ways. They say he was a boy scout, couldn't stand kids who cheated in sports, and he could hold his own.
MALVEAUX (on camera): I understand he was teased a little bit because he looked different?
CITRA DEWI, OBAMA'S FORMER CLASSMATE: Yes. Some of the kids tease him, but he like to tease also.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Four years in Indonesia, and it seems everyone who knew Barry Soetoro has a story to tell. For childhood friend Indra, it was a fight over a toy gun.
INDRA MADEWA, CHILDHOOD FRIEND: Maybe Barry, I don't know, angry or not angry. He take me very high.
MALVEAUX (on camera): He lifted you?
MADEWA: And lifted me and --
MALVEAUX: And he dropped you?
MALVEAUX: So, if you see him, are you going to remind him that he picked you up and dropped you like that?
MADEWA: Yes, of course. My -- still pain, you know?
MALVEAUX: Still hurting?
VERJEE: Suzanne Malveaux reporting. So, because of those Mount Merapi eruptions, President Obama's going to be leaving Indonesia a lot earlier than expected. His next stop is South Korea for the G20 summit. That meeting in Seoul happens on Thursday and Friday. And then on Saturday, he's going to be in Japan for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum. Obama will be sitting down with APEC leaders in Yokohama before he goes back to Washington, DC, wrapping up his ten-day tour.
From a president's world tour to a cricketer on the run. We're going to take a look at why Pakistan's wicket-keeper has disappeared from Dubai and landed here in London just days after scoring the winning run and helping his team to victory against South Africa. We're going to bring you a lot more on this really intriguing story. Pedro Pinto will help us sort through it.
VERJEE: Retired but on the run, Pakistan's cricket team plunges once again into a crisis, with wicket-keeper Zuklarnaim Haider fleeing to London after reportedly getting a death threat for refusing to fix two games. Now, the Pakistan cricket board has told CNN that they're trying to track the 24-year-old down.
He left the team's hotel in Dubai without any notice on Monday, after leading his team to victory in the fourth one-day international against South Africa. According to media reports, he retired from international cricket on Tuesday. Let's bring our "World Sport's" Pedro Pinto. Hi there.
PEDRO PINTO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hey.
VERJEE: Good to see you.
PINTO: Good to see you, as well.
VERJEE: It's been a while.
PINTO: It has.
VERJEE: How big a blow is this?
PINTO: On the field, not so much a big blow, because Zuklarnaim's still a player who has a lot of potential, but is not an established member of the team. He was only playing to fill in for someone else.
Off the field, I think this has a huge impact on the whole of Pakistani cricket and on the team itself. This has been a year to forget, with all the controversy, all the scandals, which erupted here in England during the tour against England.
And, can you imagine, when another player is now saying that he was approached to fix two matches, and decides to run away. It really shows that he doesn't trust anyone in the Pakistani setup, and I think this is what's most dramatic, if you are a fan of Pakistani cricket. And if you're a Pakistani person as well.
Because so many problems aim back in Pakistan, with the security threats, with the team involved in constant allegations, and who does this man go to? He doesn't know, so he runs away.
VERJEE: So, what do we know about his current situation. He's here in London, has he asked for asylum? You said he's retiring from cricket, but then there was a report that says he wants to go back. What's the deal?
PINTO: That's exactly right, Zain. We're getting so many different reports from so many different sources, and it's really difficult to find out what the truth is.
What we know at the moment is that he is here in London, he decided to flee Dubai, where the team was playing, he disappeared, he came here. There are reports that he's asked for asylum, but the Pakistani officials that are here don't know anything about it. The English officials have also said they haven't received any kind of petition from him. Now he's saying that he may go back to Pakistan, and what we're hearing from our sources is that he may fly back to Pakistan as soon as in 48 hours.
So, he says he doesn't want to play anymore. However, he would like to go back. Pakistani officials back home are already organizing protection for him and his family in case there are threats on their well- being.
VERJEE: As you were saying, Pedro, it's such a big blow to Pakistan's fans. I just want to go through some of the other allegations of match fixing or spot fixing in cricket. Just this past August, as you know, there were accusations that the members of Pakistan's team were involved in spot fixing. That was during a test match against England.
And then, in 2000, Pakistan's captain, Salim Malik, was banned from the sport for match fixing, although that was, then, eventually overturned, right? By the court in Pakistan.
VERJEE: And then, South Africa's former captain, Hasni Cronje, was also banned for match fixing in 2000 after he admitted throwing a game against India. And in 1998, Australian players Mark Waugh and Shane Warne were fined for giving all that inside information to a bookmaker.
I'm following this sport very carefully, and those are some of the things that really raises the questions, how much drama can Pakistan take?
PINTO: I was covering the scandal that erupted here in England during Pakistan's tour, and I went to Cardiff, where they played. I also went to Lourdes. And fans are starting to wonder exactly how true the action they're watching on the field is. And they're wondering how much are bookmakers influencing the performances of players.
Nowadays, with online betting, people can bet on anything, right?
PINTO: We know that. But at least everything is transparent. What happens in the subcontinent, in India and Pakistan, especially, there are a lot of people betting in the black market. And it's so difficult to track these people down. A lot of these phone calls that are being allegedly made between bookies and players and managers, we really don't know what's going on. So, it's very difficult to get to the bottom of it.
The International Cricket Council has said that they are going to investigate. But I think it's so difficult, Zain, to actually pin this on anyone. And I'm curious to see what Haider has to say and who were these people that approached him to fix these matches? I think he needs to come out and explain. Otherwise, there'll be suspicion from Pakistan on his behavior. There'll be suspicion from all the fans of cricket around the world. They want to know what really happened.
VERJEE: Pedro Pint, thanks so much. Appreciate it. I'm kind of hungry, now, Pedro. Are you?
VERJEE: Let me tell you about scallop and lobster tacos, Waygu beef, duck breasts with Wasabi salsa. Let's go to Nobu tonight, right, Pedro? Just some of the luxury dishes by the Japanese chef with a celebrity following. Nobu is his name. He's one of the world's best in the kitchen, and he joins us next as your Connector of the Day. Let's break the bank.
VERJEE: If you're a fan of fine cuisine, you are going to know tonight's Connector of the Day. He got his name on restaurants as far afield as New York, Melbourne, London, Dubai, and he's got the backing of one of the biggest names in Hollywood. Becky Anderson connects you with a culinary genius.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): The name Nobu usually conjures up images of trendy dining rooms and intricate dishes. Celebrities and foodies alike flock to eat and be seen in one of the many elite eateries that dot the globe.
But it's the man behind the name that's the real mover and shaker. Nobu Matsuhisa, chef to the stars, and founder of one of the most definitive restaurant brands in the world. For more than 30 years, Nobu has served sushi across continents, teaming up with some of show business's biggest names to solidify his reputation around the world.
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: What I experienced in Japanese restaurants, as good as they were, Nobu had something special.
ANDERSON (voice-over): And there seems to be no end in sight for the Japanese-born master chef. This year, he's hosting a series of dinners around the world, emphasized umani, commonly known as the sixth sense. He explained to me exactly what this means.
NOBU MATSUHISA, JAPANESE CHEF: This umani is found out 100 years ago in Japan. So in Japanese, a professor find out that people have taste, feel, sweet, and salty, bitter, and sour. Then, umani is the last taste. It's the fifth taste.
Example, you drink soup. Do you feel taste at the end of the throat. So, this is umani. So, example, Japanese umani is like a dry kelp, dry bonitos, and also western, it's a taste like tomatoes, cheese, and ham, and mushrooms. All over the world has regular product that has umani.
ANDERSON: Let me ask you some questions, Nobu-san, from the viewers. Rich has written to us. He says, "What's your advice to a young up and coming chef?"
MATSUHISA: It's -- I think when the young people has dreams. It's like, take the dreams, and try your best. Don't give up. So, this matches with passions. Then, one day, it's step by step. Not necessary rush to go to the -- quick. One by one and step by step. So, then, try best, with passion. This is my advice.
ANDERSON: Good stuff. Faysal has written to us. He says, "When was the first time you decided to add South American touch to your food, and what was the idea behind that?"
MATSUHISA: It's my background. I was born in Japan, then remained in Japan, and I studied in Japan. Japan is like the ocean, it's fish around the world. Around Japan. We know how to eat fish, but always fish eat sashimi or sushi eat soy sauce and Wasabi.
The first time I went to Peru, and its sashimi is eat with lemon juice. So they say, cooked with lemon juice. It means marinate the fish, marinate the lemon juice. I was shocked, because it's same fish in different cultures with a different sauce. So, that's why the first time I eat the ceviche, it's my open mind. And I come to, "This is OK, we can do this one. We can do this one." It's very positive thinking.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Melissa asks a very simple question. She says, "What is your favorite dish?"
MATSUHISA: Well, it's -- I have so many signature dishes I have, it means I create my dish, it's like my son. You know?
MATSUHISA: It depends on how I feel. But I like the blowfish because the fish freezes very healthy. Example, tiradito. Tiradito is like a South American dish. Rice, beautiful sashimi, and put lemon juice, salt, and locoto, it means Peruvian chili paste with coriander. And test cream and -- very cream part is like -- I like this one. I always like to eat this one.
ANDERSON: Mine is blackened cod, but I have blackened here, then I go elsewhere, and nobody does it -- nobody does it well like you do it here.
Sara asks, "What are your three most important things to remember as a chef, and how do you come up with new winning combinations?"
MATSUHISA: Well, it's product qualities, like the technique, and passions. So, these three things are most important.
VERJEE: Becky Anderson connecting us, there, with Japanese fusion chef Nobu Matsuhisa. Tomorrow night, we're going to be spicing up the show with another man who's made a success of mixing it up. You know this guy, he's been living la vida loca. Latino pop star Ricky Martin is going to be joining us to talk about the revelations in his new book.
He's really opening up, so if there's something you really want to ask Ricky, be quick, OK? Send us your questions and, remember, tell us where you're writing in from. Go to cnn.com/connect. Tonight, we'll be right back.
VERJEE: Time now for our Parting Shots. Tonight, we're going to see just how far a good feeling can actually take you. Jeanne Moos explains why a contestant on the game show "Wheel of Fortune" is being called a one- letter wonder.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was excited then. And she's still excited. You'd be excited, too, if all you needed to solve this "Wheel of Fortune" phrase was a single letter.
CAITLIN BURKE, CONTESTANT, "WHEEL OF FORTUNE": "L."
PAT SAJAK, HOST, "WHEEL OF FORTUNE": One "L."
MOOS (voice-over): One "L" and an apostrophe don't help most folks.
MOOS (on camera): What is this phrase?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Um --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Um -- can I buy a vowel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no idea. I'm stumped.
MOOS (voice-over): But fashion editor Caitlin Burke wasn't. Host Pat Sajak was rendered momentarily mute when Caitlin asked to solve the puzzle so soon.
BURKE: Can I solve?
BURKE: It is a prize puzzle.
BURKE: "I've got a good feeling about this."
SAJAK: That's right.
MOOS (voice-over): No one looked more shocked than her fellow contestant. Look at his face.
BURKE: I had a good feeling about it. I had a good feeling about it.
MOOS (voice-over): This transplanted New Yorker is such a fan of the show that she got tears in her eyes the first time she spun the wheel.
BURKE: If you're a long fan of the show, there is a strategy a little bit, like always the apostrophe helped.
MOOS (voice-over): It helped her know the first word was "I've" or "I'll."
MOOS (on camera): And if you think Caitlin is a one-letter wonder, what's really amazing is, she says she had the phrase figured out before there were any letters up.
So you knew it when it was empty?
BURKE: Yes. I do this all the time at home. I call it before there's any letters, or if there's only few. And half the time I'm right.
MOOS (voice-over): Skeptics called her a witch. Said it was staged, rigged.
BURKE: I think that's just funny. I mean obviously I didn't -- I don't know how you would cheat.
MOOS (voice-over): Caitlin won a total of around $53,000, which includes a Caribbean trip, plans to pay off her student loan.
BURKE: I have a bucket list of things I want to do, and number one was be on "Wheel of Fortune." Somewhere in there is own a Chanel bag.
MOOS (voice-over): This Chanel bag runs about 3,000 bucks. The fact that Caitlin solved this with only one letter prompted someone to post, "I can't even solve it when there's only one letter remaining." We doubted that, until we saw contestants blow it with no letters remaining.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regis Philbin and Kelly Ripe-a.
MOOS (voice-over): Leaving us with a bad feeling.
BURKE: I had a good feeling about it.
MOOS (voice-over): Jeanne Moos --
BURKE: I've got a good feeling about this.
MOOS (voice-over): CNN --
BURKE: I had a good feeling about it.
MOOS (voice-over): New York.
VERJEE: I have a good feeling about our Facebook page, and I want to remind you that you can find out much more about this show on Facebook. Just go to facebook.com/CNNconnect. Go there, and you can find about all our special interviews coming up a little bit later this week with the cast of "Harry Potter." It's going to be great.
I'm Zain Verjee, that's your world connected. "BackStory" is next after the check of the headlines.