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Connect the World
Ending Europe's Debt Crisis; Controversy Over Gadhafi's Death; Flooding in Bangkok; Man Rescued From Rubble in Turkey; World Series Game Six; New Controversy Over Shakespeare's Legacy
Aired October 27, 2011 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE MANUEL BARROSO, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: This is a marathon, not a sprint.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: A critical deal in Europe's debt crisis, but is it enough? Tonight, one of the original architects of a unified Europe explains why the devil is in the details.
Live, from London, I'm Becky Anderson. Also, tonight.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's quite a good price to have on my head, isn't it? Ten million in cash, and seventy (INAUDIBLE) in oil credits (INAUDIBLE).
ANDERSON: Mercenary Simon Mann tells me about life as a wanted man after his audacious 2004 coup d',tat ended before it began. And -
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We all know William Shakespeare, the most famous author of all time. But what if I told you, Shakespeare never wrote a single word.
ANDERSON: Shakespeare, or "Fakespeare" tonight - that is the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well a deal is done, but is it a game changer? Tonight, we look at the grand plan to contain the Euro zone debt crisis and avoid a second global meltdown. Here's what Europe's leaders came up with after a marathon 11-hour meeting in Brussels overnight.
TEXT: Expanding the fund. Will be $1.4 trillion. Is it enough?
Starting off with this, boosting the bailout fund, the so-called EFF will be leveraged to the tune of 1.4 trillion dollars. The question is, if Italy were to fail, would even that be big enough?
TEXT: Greek debt. 50 percent loss on Greek bonds. Roughly 100 billion Euros. Others expect same?
Restructuring Greek debt or a haircut, as it's otherwise known. Private investors have agreed to accept a fifty percent loss on their Greek bonds. Roughly a hundred and forty billion dollars. The move will slash Greece's debt burden, but will other expect the same treatment going forward?
TEXT: Bank recapitalization. Increase reserves to 9%. Will taxpayers have to pay?
And, bank recapitalization. Europe's banks must raise a combined total of a hundred and fifty billion dollars by June, 2012 to protect against potential losses from future write-downs or default. But how much of this will have to come from taxpayers?
Big questions tonight after the deal is expected. The architects of that plan are bubbling with optimism. But Greece isn't being let off the hook for its role in the crisis. French president Nicolas Sarkozy now says it was an error, a mistake, to allow Greece to join the Euro back in 2001. We'll get some reactions from Greek prime minister George Papandreou.
First, though, here is European Commission Jose Manuel Barroso.
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BARROSO: This is a marathon, not a sprint. The technical work needed to finalize certain aspects of this package will be completed by the relevant authorities in the coming weeks. And the Commission will make further proposals for a community (ph) way out of this crisis.
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GEORGE PAPANDREOU, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: Yesterday's decision gives us time to remove some insecurity from us to give us an opportunity to map out our role (INAUDIBLE) for the banking system, for the pensions. It creates opportunities for the (INAUDIBLE) and for liquidity and to (INAUDIBLE) support Social Security and the banking system.
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ANDERSON: Well, in a word, relief, the mood all over the markets today. European indices ended (INAUDIBLE), their highest point in several weeks. Look at this, Paris, 6.28% high. You just saw that market rise and what a lot of financial stocks and a their people buying back into the financial sector. Even though many of these European banks are going to have to take a hit on these Greek bonds, better the investors know than they don't.
FTSE, 2.89 percent high.
DAX, 5.35 percent higher in this market that's just closed. That's the U.S. market, of course. Nearly three percent higher.
Well, my guest tonight says the debt deal has picked the major boxes. And it's forced some more stability into the region, if you like. He calls it a bold deal, but says, now we need to see the details. Mario Monti joins me live from Paris.
Sir, bank recapitalization. Let's start there. The tune of a hundred fifty billion. This has got credit crunch written all over it, hasn't it? It isn't to say that banks, rather than raising their new capital won't just shrink their balance sheet and lend less. That would be dreadful for European growth, surely.
MARIO MONTI, FORMER EU COMMISSIONER: Yes, that would be dreadful. At the same time, this move gives a greater picture of certainty, of confidence also to the real economy. So, I think this will act as a stabilizer. As you say, the devil is in the details.
Well, first of all, Europe is not yet out of the tunnel, but I think it made considerable, impressive progress even. There was a big devil and that has been killed. And that was the devil of fundamental divergences between Germany and France. That is over.
There are, undoubtedly, a number of little, still dangerous devils, but it's important now that the relevant authorities, as President Barroso said, come to settle this in the next few days. Not (INAUDIBLE).
ANDERSON: Let's get some leadership before G-20 next week, down in Cad (ph), of course. Let's take a look at this fifteen percent haircut. Fine (ph). Well that will leave Greece with a debt to GDP ratio of about 120 percent.
I've heard it said in the past that Phil (ph) passed what is called the point of fiscal no return, which is about 100 percent GDP. Is that enough? Is write-down on Greek bonds by these financial institutions?
MONTI: I think it will be enough, and I think that people must realize that what Greece is achieving, is trying to achieve under the pressure of Europe in the window of a couple of years, is really a major revolution of its culture, of its economic policy, shifting from a country of corruption, (INAUDIBLE) into a country that will give a role to the markets, to competition, to correctness in public procurement. All this is a major revolution.
So, the Euro is working as a vector of export of a culture of stability, originally from Germany to the rest of Europe. Of course it takes time, but I think the package of last night is a major propellant of this process.
ANDERSON: Yes, part of that package, of course, is this European bailout fund. Leveraged to the tune of some one and a half trillion dollars, which is an enormous amount of money. It may be sufficient today, of course, but if Italy were to go the way of Greece, all bets surely are off again, aren't they?
MONTI: Yes, they would be. But another major achievement of last night has been the unprecedented pressure put on Italy, on the Italian prime minister, who has seen, possibly for the first time in his political career, some institutional power greater than his own power, and he has very quickly understood, maybe for the first time, that he has to fully comply with European constraints.
This may create some problems for the coalition back in Rome, but the commitment of Italy is there, and in one way or another, the European Commission will put a daily pressure on Italy. So, on one hand, the leveraging of the Iatect (ph) has been done, having Italy in mind, but maybe it will not be necessary, because I think Italy will speed up its convergence to the rules.
ANDERSON: But, Mario, you will agree with me tonight, there is a big, black cloud of uncertainty hanging over Italy tonight. Mr. Berlusconi stepped down and effectively put in an interim leadership in Italy, so that something can get done so that this black cloud can be lifted somewhat. And he's the 15th of November as a deadline at the moment for his austerity plan. That's not going to happen, is it?
MONTI: Well, we shall see, but you know, many people in the market say that should the present government go in itself, it should ease the situation of the spread of Italian treasury bills relative to the Deutsche Bund (ph). I don't know whether this would be the case, but in a sense we are in a hedged position. So, either this government fully complies with the European requirements, or it will be more crystal clear than ever that he has to go.
ANDERSON: Mario, briefly - marks out of ten for European leadership at this point.
MONTI: European leadership - well, eight out of ten.
ANDERSON: Well, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Mario Monti, one of the architects of financial integration here in Europe.
Well, we've had the political reaction. The market moves now. It's time to hear from the one generation which will live with these decisions for years to come. Here's my earlier discussion with the very bright, rightly concerned Europeans.
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ANDERSON: Well, joining me now is Philip Fabian from Germany, on the property here in London, and Stefanos Likkas from Athens. Gentleman, thank you for your time this evening. How would you, and starting off with Philip, how would you rate esteemed European leaders over this Eurozone crisis, in what you've seen of late?
PHILIP FABIAN, GERMAN RESIDENT: Look, Becky, Angela Merkel, she clearly stated yesterday that we are going to spend what has to be spent and we are going to put as much money at risk as is necessary. It was almost as if she would say that there is (INAUDIBLE) a lineage (ph) for that, so I had doubts, but maybe it works as she says and this was that the thing was that the markets that agreed to protect us. However, I think that more and more people doubt about whether it will really work.
ANDERSON: Yes. That's the big question tonight. Does this draw a line under the crisis? Tom, your thoughts.
TOM CLOUGHERTY, UK RESIDENT: Well, I'm giving the European leaders an "F" for fail. Obviously, I think that they've handled the whole crisis disastrously, pretty much from start to finish. And I don't think that today's announcement changes very much at all.
As to the question, does it draw a line under the crisis - absolutely not. I think, if anything, this is another step in the wrong direction and things are going to get worse before they get better.
ANDERSON: And certainly, that is true. Sadly, Stefanos, in Athens and in Greece as a whole.
STEFANOS LIKKAS, GREEK RESIDENT: Well, we've heard for months that we're not supposed to default, and the (INAUDIBLE) and the Greek government hasn't shown any leadership or any effort to participate in negotiations with other European leaders. They pretty much accepted what was drawn out for them. So, I don't see any kind of coherent agenda in the Greek side of this.
ANDERSON: All right. And that, of course, is what's important. None of what we have seen of late will do anything to improve European growth in what is the next two, three, or four quarters. It is going to be rough out there. And what happens, chaps, now will set the tone for your generation and beyond. Philip, how do you feel about being a European, working the system here in Europe, this year, next year, and beyond?
FABIAN: Look, Becky, I love Europe, I love living here, I love the diversity of Europe and its culture, etcetera. But this should not be mixed up with loving the European system (ph). I'm stopping to have growing up (ph), but whether we don't have a little too much of it, we talk more and more about needing (ph) Europe to solve this crisis but I think that there's too much Europe that is at the root of this crisis in the first place, so it sounds to me as if somebody will suggest that we need more sub-prime mortgages in order to solve the financial crisis that we just had.
ANDERSON: Tom, you're a philo Euro phobe (ph) going forward.
CLOUGHERTY: I wouldn't necessarily frame the question in those terms. I mean, I'm a relatively Euro skeptic myself, and I certainly don't think that further fiscal integration, further political integration in Europe is going to do much to deal with this problem.
But the wider question, how do I feel about being a European at the moment - you know, not great, because, without meaning to be too apocalyptic about things, I still don't think anyone has really faced up to the scale of this problem.
As far as I can tell, the sovereign debt bubble will burst. Nothing has changed that. When it does, our financial system is horribly exposed, and I think we could be looking at a renewed crisis which dwarfs the one we had in 2008, which could have really quite far-reaching consequences for many years, unless the right policies are adopted.
ANDERSON: Stefanos, do you share Tom's pessimism?
LIKKAS: I'm afraid I do. The thing is that right now it doesn't feel too great being European. We know we share a lot in Europe, but we need to move forward, and it's going to be one of either ways. It's going to get closer cooperation (ph) or we're going to drift apart.
ANDERSON: The voices from across Europe, reeling (ph) from a landmark agreement in Brussels. The spotlight is now moving to Cannes (ph). The G- 20 is the next big summit on the camera and I'll be hosting the show, live from a rather glamorous resort in the south of France next week. Don't miss our interview with German chancellor Igor Merkel (ph). That is Wednesday, here on CONNECT THE WORLD. You are watching CNN.
Just ahead, the water is creeping in slowly but surely. Bangkok's many (ph) move out, and flood water moves in. Plus, the waiting game continues as players and owners, working around the clock to thrash out a deal. We're going to bring you the very latest on the NBA lockout.
And, new criticism of the way Moammar Gadhafi met his death. A leading philosopher, who's galvanized French intervention in Libya, says this could be a moral tipping point. We're live tonight, with (INAUDIBLE)
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ANDERSON: Well, welcome back. Eighteen minutes past nine, in London. I'm Becky Anderson and you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. A look at some of the other stories we are following for you this hour.
And it's not the surge of water people were expecting, but flood waters are inching higher, steadily, in the Thai capital Bangkok. Hundreds of people are being killed in weeks of flooding and the prime minister says Bangkok is entering a critical stage. Sara Sidner is there.
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SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we're seeing right now, to give you a picture of what's happening in this city - we're standing in front of the Grand Palace. I want to give you a look at what's happening there behind me.
The Grand Palace, dry right now. But some of the roads leading up to the Palace are flooding. It's not as if the water is rushing in at this point. The water is creeping in. Some parts of the city still dry, some parts of the city are now seeing water.
The prime minister is saying that when high tide comes, which is sometime early morning Friday or afternoon Friday, more of that water will come into the city. We're talking about what could be, in some areas, ten centimeters, about four inches, or a meter, about three feet. This situation, of course, has Bangkok residents very concerned.
There is a five day holiday that's been put in place. Now we're noticing that some of the roadways are less trafficked. People have either left the city - more than a million people have gone out of the city - or, they have decided to stay in their homes and try and protect their property. But more and more, we're starting to see some of this water come in.
We were able to go up in a helicopter today with the U.S. military - the Navy and the Marines, who are doing daily missions to try to assess what exactly is happening and where exactly the water is going. What we were seeing is where roads have been swallowed by water with just the tops, just the overpasses peeking above.
We were also seeing the airport from an aerial view. And what we're seeing there in the Don Juan (ph) domestic airport, which has now been closed down, is more water onto the runway. We are also seeing factories inundated, or surrounded by water, more than ten thousand factories have seen some kind of water damage, making it quite bad for business and for Thailand's economy.
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ANDERSON: A teenager has been rescued alive in Turkey, a hundred hours after a devastating earthquake first struck the region. According to the Arturian (ph) News Agency, eighteen-year-old Indas Karat (ph) was pulled out alive from the rubble in Ashy (ph). He was taken to the hospital for treatment and is in stable condition we're told.
The death toll from Sunday's quake has risen to 535, with more than two thousand people injured.
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Pro-government Syrians showed their support at a rally in Lacathia (ph), one day after Arab foreign ministers met with E-nations (ph).
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Residents elsewhere (ph) viewed (ph) brutality and violence. On this footage, appears to show security forces opening fire in one of the neighborhoods in Daraa. We cannot (ph) confirm its authenticity. It's hard to verify any information because foreign journalists aren't allowed in. But one did manage to get through. Sean McAllister was on assignment for Channel Four when he was picked up by Syrian authorities.
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SEAN MCALLISTER, INDEPENDENT FILMMAKER: I would be talking to them about something, or they'd be interrogating me and I'd hear the howl of somebody downstairs being tortured and beaten. And I would be almost embarrassed - and would kind of look away. But they don't hear it. They just do not hear it. It's become such a daily, daily, daily, evening, nighttime occurrence, they can't hear it. In Europe (ph), this is what really messed with me most, really.
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ANDERSON: Well, a man held in Egypt on suspicion of spying is being handed back to Israel, as part of a prisoner swap. An American, Imy Grappel (ph) was detained by Egyptian authorities in June, accused of espionage and incitement to torch government buildings. It was part of a deal struck with Egypt. Grappel (ph) was released in exchange for 25 Egyptian prisoners being held in Israel.
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Well there is discontent over the "Occupy London" protests outside Bolt (ph) Cathedral. The chancellor of the church, Charles Frasier (ph) has resigned. The chancellor was (INAUDIBLE) to supporting the protests outside (ph). From (INAUDIBLE) and differences they've had on the demonstrations are thought to be the reasons for his resignation. The crowds grew so large, it forced the closure of the church for a week. It is expected to re-open on Friday. This is CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN.
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Coming up - Champagne (ph) as a nicer (ph) look at Baseball's World Series, which could be wrapped up in a matter of hours.
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ANDERSON: Well tonight could be the climax of the Major League Baseball season.
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The Texas Rangers are in to loot (ph) to play the Cardinals in Game Six of the World Series. Texas, three-two up in the best of seven series, and could have won the title with a victory last night. But the game was canceled due to heavy rain. Instead the teams will go head-to-head in Busch (ph) Stadium in just about four hours of time of all (ph). On this I'm joined by World Sports' Mark McKay at CNN Center.
So I guess the big question is, tonight, how's the weather looking ahead of the game?
MARK MCKAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the rain has moved out, Becky, that's the good sign. And it's all clear. Clouds remain, so weather is not going to be an issue, but players and fans alike had better be ready to wrap themselves up at Busch (ph) Stadium. Temperature is going to be a bit chilly. Right now it's 55 degrees Fahrenheit, 12 degrees Celsius, but after the sun sets, it will get a bit chilly there at Busch (ph) Stadium, temperatures falling into the single digits Celsius. But Becky, that's par for the course when you crown a major league baseball champion here in North America in late October, don't you think?
ANDERSON: Absolutely. The Rangers could drum (ph) up the Series there tonight. Cardinals have home advantage. Which way do you see this one going, mate?
MCKAY: Well, you know, I'm not in the prognosticating business, Becky. I usually get those things wrong. But I think the day's rest helped both of these teams out in terms of resting and recharging for what would now be the stretch run of the major league season.
If the Rangers win tonight, they've got it all, but the Cardinals have to win tonight to force a game seven, so many could think - well, the pressure is on the Rangers to get it done and not get into that tricky game seven on a Friday. I think the Cardinals get it done. Becky, I think we're going to have a seventh game of the World Series Friday there in St. Louis.
ANDERSON: All right, good (ph), I'm going to hold you to that. Speak (ph) to you again at the end of the week.
Listen, this NBA Lockout. I find this story actually a remarkable one (ph). Fifteen hours of negotiating on Wednesday night. Players and owners now back at the table as we speak. Is there any end in sight?
MCKAY: Well, the positive thing about it, Becky, is that both sides are back talking.
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And to think that they were at the negotiating table for fifteen hours, breaking up early Thursday morning here in the United States is a positive sign that they're not only talking but they're listening as well. It's a very complex set of circumstances, Becky, that these two sides have to go through.
But both sides admit, perhaps with the season now - you know, games have already been cancelled in the season. Now we start to see if an entire season will go away. The clock is ticking and I think that we could have progress made over the next few days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Good. Bar people over there (ph), they'll be looking forward to that, right, Marky (ph)? Thank you for that.
Okay, we'll be back with you on "WORLD SPORTS" in just about an hour from now here on CNN.
Human rights groups say Libya's revolutionary forces may be guilty of war crimes.
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We're going to look at the evidence of massive confusion (ph) in Moammar Gadhafi's home town of Sirte. That story, and our interview with Bernard-Henri Levy, straight ahead.
Also in the next fifteen minutes, the British mercenary pardoned by the president that he had planned to overthrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
He tells me his extraordinary story. Plus
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just think it's terribly sad that more people don't realize, and think they're such clich,s. Actually, they came from the great Bard himself.
ANDERSON: A history quiz on the streets of London about the most famous English writer of all time. There's a new film that calls his legacy into question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Just before half past nine in London, you're back with CONNECT THE WORLD, here on CNN, the world's news leader. I'm Becky Anderson. Let's check the headlines at this hour. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Global stock markets have been reacting ugly (ph) to a deal designed to help solve the Eurozone's debt crisis. EU leaders have agreed on a three part accord after a marathon negotiation session in Brussells. Part of that plan is for private investors to accept a 50 percent loss on their Greek bonds.
Well, the odds were getting longer, but a young man who spent four days trapped in the earthquake's rubble in Turkey is now recovering in a hospital after being rescued on Thursday. We're told he suffered no serious injuries and is doing well.
An aerial view suggests the scale of the flooding in Bangkok. It's never been this bad in most people's memory. The water expected to crest in the next few days. Thailand has declared a national holiday through the weekend so that people can get out of the flood zone.
And it's official. NATO's military operations in Libya will end on October the 31st. United Nations Security Council voted unanimously today to rescind the mandate. The bombing campaign helped rebels overthrow Moammar Gadhafi's regime, of course.
Those rebels are now Libya's rulers, and they are facing some tough questions about how Moammar Gadhafi died after he was captured alive. At fist, they blamed crossfire. Let's get some details from CNN's Dan Rivers, who's live in Tripoli for us tonight.
Dan, they are now promising to take action. What sort of action?
DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, theoretically, legal action, presumably put the person on trial for murder, if they can prove it. That's a big "if," of course. The evidence has been scattered all over the place, the people have dissipated from the scene.
But there is one -- at least one piece of crucial evidence, which is a cell phone video of at least one man claiming that he pulled the trigger that killed Gadhafi, and another in that same video saying he witnessed it, as well.
Now, the NTC slightly shifting their position, saying that if that is proven to be true, they will take action against that man. That was the words of Ahmed Bani, the military spokesman for the NTC to me earlier on today.
Meanwhile, there are also continuing questions about exactly what happened in Sirte in the final battle of this war, suggestions of massacres, of war atrocities, of war crimes with international calls for those to be investigated. Some viewers may find this report disturbing.
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RIVERS (voice-over): As the dust settles on the Libyan conflict, there are increasing questions about the atrocities that appear to have been perpetrated by militia loyal to the transitional government.
These are just some of the bodies found around Moammar Gadhafi's convoy. Some were killed in a battle as the former dictator tried to flee, but some appear to have been executed as prisoners, contrary to the Geneva Conventions.
RIVERS (on camera): Plenty of evidence around here of other bodies, here, some of which Human Rights Watch claim were also executed. They say there are 95 bodies in this area, and at least ten of them that have been shot at point-blank range.
RIVERS (voice-over) : We'd witnessed this during the battle for Sirte. Piles of bodies with their hands bound behind their backs, shot through the head, with no clear sense of who they were or who shot them. The bodies lay here for days without any revolutionary forces attempting to bury them.
But now, Human Right Watch investigator, Peter Bouckaert, says he's found clear evidence some of the victims were Gadhafi officials, and he's concerned they may have been executed by revolutionary forces.
This is the aftermath of a massacre at the Mahari Hotel in Sirte, 53 bodies with evidence on the walls that this hotel was occupied by revolutionary brigades before the people were killed.
PETER BOUCKAERT, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: We're very disappointed that the NTC still hasn't sent anybody down to Sirte to investigate. And their failure to investigate risks invoking the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. This is a war crime.
RIVERS: The transitional government has promised to bring those responsible to justice.
AHMED BANI, SPOKESMAN, NTC MILITARY (through translator): I assure you that we will not turn a blind eye or forgive any crime that might have been committed during this conflict.
RIVERS: But the true scale of the killing in Sirte is only now becoming clear. Some 300 bodies have been found so far, with no one from the transitional government attempting to gather evidence before the bodies are removed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIVERS: The NTC is now saying it will investigate. The problem is, we've got no details about how that will happen, when it will happen, who will be involved, and just how independent they really will be. Becky?
ANDERSON: Dan Rivers, live for you in Tripoli this evening. Dan, thank you very much, indeed, for that.
Well, one of the most esteemed authors and philosophers in Europe says the killing of Gadhafi could represent a moral tipping point.
Bernard-Henri Levy was instrumental in convincing his government, France, not only to intervene militarily in Libya, but also to be first to extend diplomatic recognition to the National Transitional Council. He joins us now, live from Paris.
A moral tipping point? Why?
BERNARD-HENRI LEVY, FRENCH AUTHOR: Why? Because Gadhafi first of all should not have been executed. He should have been tried, he should have had to reply, to respond to his crimes in front of a court. And moreover, not this way.
This was really an atrocious, gory image, and absolutely un -- the revolution, which was so exemplary until this point, might have accomplished their real mistake. What I --
ANDERSON: You are --
LEVY: What I must add to it is that this feeling I have is the feeling of the majority of the NTC. All the officials to whom I spoke in the last days feel like me, that it was a mistake and a gory mise-en-scene.
ANDERSON: So, you are convinced that they will pursue the killer, are you?
LEVY: I am convinced number one that they will make all the light -- all the necessary light on the event, and number two that they will pursue the killer for sure. I'm convinced of that, yes, of course.
ANDERSON: How do you think this lynching -- and let's call it that -- of Moammar Gadhafi will affect the outcome of this entire process and what we see as the shaping of Libya going forward. Does it tell us anything?
LEVY: It depends. If it remains like this, in the shadow, in the earth, it will be a bad sign and a bad beginning.
If on the contrary, the light is on, the killer is pursued, then it will be the last event, the last step of the old age. It will be the last step of the Gadhafi time. Gadhafi would have been the victim of the spirit, of the process he himself launched and entertained for 42 years and 40 days.
So, it depends. It depends on how the NTC will deal with that.
ANDERSON: Bernard-Henri Levy, there's been much criticism of the NTC in the months leading up to Moammar Gadhafi's slaughter. At this point, are you confident that they are equipped to lead Libya into the future?
After all, let's remember, there's 42 years of autocratic rule, here. We should surely be giving these guys a chance. But you know the members of the NTC well. Are they qualified, equipped?
LEVY: Qualified, they are. Equipped, they are. Wise, most of them are wisest ladies and gentlemen. I believe that.
But what you have to consider is that they inherit a country which is no state, no nation, no society. The Libyan society was reduced under Gadhafi to a sort of a morbid dead corpse. So, they have to revive the very Libyan society to build parties, to organize an electoral process, to inject the first seeds of democracy.
ANDERSON: Right.
LEVY: It's a huge task. It is ground zero. Ground zero of policy from which they have to start.
ANDERSON: As NATO moves out, and it is confirmed that the mission will be over on Monday, October the 31st, and international organizations move in, is there -- and surely the answer to this question is yes -- a likelihood that the support that Libyans have shown for Western intervention in the country could be diminished as they see Western organizations moving in to take advantage of the oil assets that exist?
Does that worry you going forward?
LEVY: Of course not. The decision which was taken by Sarkozy, by Mrs. Clinton, and of course President Obama, by David Cameron, and by some Arab countries was a historic resolution for one reason. It was just an extended hand to a people who were threatened with a bloodbath for no --
And there was no abuse interest in doing that. There was no precondition. It was just the consciousness, the revolt of the consciousness of those whom I quoted, Clinton, Sarkozy, Cameron, in front of this bloodbath.
The reason was, no more Bosnia. No more Rwanda, Kigali, genocide. No more these sorts of slaughter. This was a shield. This is the honor of the international community to have done that.
Moreover, we broke, took over -- the French, the Americans, and the Arabs of Libya -- we broke the terrible low of the clash of civilization. We demonstrated that the clash was not a fatality. We demonstrated that we Westerners could go to help, to support an Arab population trying to build a democracy.
ANDERSON: All right.
LEVY: This is the core of this intervention.
ANDERSON: And with that, we're going to leave it there, sir. Always a pleasure to have you on the show. We appreciate your time, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us out of Paris this evening.
You are with CONNECT THE WORLD out of London, I'm Becky Anderson. Still to come, inside the dangerous world of a mercenary.
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SIMON MANN, FORMER BRITISH MERCENARY: I arrived in Equatorial Guinea with the worst -- you know, the worst possible expectations, basically, hoping that they'd shoot me not hang me, because I thought that would be much better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: What this gun for hire did to survive and win his freedom. My Big Interview, up next in just 90 seconds.
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ANDERSON: All right. Well, he was the Eaton graduate and crack British soldier who, in retirement, became a gun for hire.
As a mercenary, Simon Mann personally fought in Angola and in Sierra Leone, but his 2004 coup plot in the oil-rich nation of Equatorial Guinea ended before it even began.
Imprisoned, tortured, and then pardoned, Mann has now written a book about his extraordinary five-year ordeal and, tonight, in part one of my Big Interview with this famous mercenary, he explains why he is taking no prisoners.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be in prison 34 years and two days.
MANN: I was not expecting to get 34 years. I'd not been warned that I was going to get 34 years. I thought they were going to give me 14.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Former British soldier Simon Mann was convicted by an African court of terrorism after confessing to a 2004 plot to overthrow the 24-year rule of the Equatorial Guinean president Teodoro Obiang.
MANN: We were expecting a great deal of help from local people.
I thought it was about removing a tyrant. I was invited to lead a coup d'etat against what, so far as anyone could tell and all the sources agreed, was a very bad and ongoing tyranny.
And the advantage of this particularly tyranny was that it was very rich. So, once having been taking out, all those who had done so could look forward to being very rich.
ANDERSON (on camera): Including you, I --
MANN: Absolutely, first of all me.
ANDERSON: That was your motivation, was it?
MANN: Well, no, I needed the double whammy. I mean, had it not been a rank, ongoing tyrant, in our view, then I wouldn't have considered it, no matter for how much money.
And that kind of rather sort of iffy morality has always been my guide, because in the previous exercises I've been in in Angola and Sierra Leone, again, we were ethical in that we thought about the morality of what we were doing.
ANDERSON: You're a hired gun, aren't you? You can't really expect people to believe that your motivation was in anything but money-based, and yet, what you're suggesting or alluding to is your motivation was partly humanitarian, is it?
MANN: Well, definitely we wouldn't have done it had it not been a rank tyranny. That was an essential part of the equation.
ANDERSON: There was $15 million in this for you.
MANN: It was, yes, $15 million at least in it for me.
ANDERSON: Walk me through the plot, then. What was the idea? What were you going to do?
MANN: We were going to just turn up there, and I thought that basically we'd be shaking hands, because the plan within the plan was for a palace coup to be carried out once we were airborne and en route. So, basically, Obiang, President Obiang would have been in custody, in the custody of a palace coup before we arrived.
About an hour or two after we'd landed, Severo Moto, who was to be the new interim president, and who, indeed, is still the head of the opposition in exile in Madrid, Severo Moto would've rolled up about an hour or two after we'd landed, and we would then have been primarily his escort.
ANDERSON (voice-over): But the coup was thwarted. Mann and 69 other mercenaries were arrested during a stopoff in Zimbabwe to collect weapons.
ANDERSON (on camera): What happened in Zimbabwe?
MANN: I was under the control of the CIA, who are Mugabe's sort of Gestapo, basically. And they were interrogating me. They were mistreating me. They were torturing me, basically.
ANDERSON: How?
MANN: By tactical questioning, sensory deprivation, sleep denial, food denial, water denial. And then, beatings. You know, beating up, hands and feet. Nothing too serious, but quite bad enough.
Now, what was happening to the men -- because I had all these men with me -- I knew they were being tortured. In fact, they were being treated worse than me.
I said, "Well, look. I know you were torturing the guys. If I sign a statement, will you stop mistreating everybody?"
And they said, "Yes," and they did stop.
ANDERSON: And what did that say?
MANN: It told the story of how I met The Boss and other people and the whole build-up and everything. I told them the truth.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Mann has always claimed that he was the manager, not the architect, of the plot, and The Boss is how he refers to the alleged mastermind of the coup in his new book "Cry Havoc."
From the outset, Mann has also implicated the son of former British prime minister, Margaret Thatcher.
MANN: There were also many meetings with Mark Thatcher, who was not just an investor. I mean, he came onboard completely and he became part of the management team.
ANDERSON: Thatcher did plead guilty in 2005 to contravening anti- mercenary laws and received a four-year suspended jail sentence after agreeing to pay a fine in a plea bargain.
He has always denied involvement in and knowledge of the plot, saying he did not know that a helicopter he agreed to fund was to be used in the planned coup.
Mann, however, spent four years in a Zimbabwe prison for trying to buy weapons.
ANDERSON (on camera): You famously also tried to smuggle a letter out of the Zimbabwean jail marking two contacts, one called "Smelly" and one called "Scratcher" to send a big "splodge of Wonga." Take us back to that day.
MANN: Basically, what I was trying to do was get the message out that those people, Mark Thatcher and The Boss needed to really, seriously pull their fingers out, because we were under threat of death.
If we -- there was a serious risk that at that stage we might be whisked away to Equatorial Guinea. And had that happened then, I think we would've been executed.
ANDERSON: Why didn't it happen then?
MANN: I don't know. That's one of the things I don't know. Maybe one of the reasons was because Mugabe knew that he was onto something good. Because as the time went on, the stakes went up, because in the end, I know that President Obiang basically paid $80 million for me.
ANDERSON: $80 million.
MANN: Eight-zero, yes. So, that's quite a good price to have on your head, isn't it? $10 million in cash and $70 in oil credit, fuel credit.
ANDERSON: To Mugabe?
MANN: To Mugabe. To Zimbabwe, yes.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Mann was then extradited to Equatorial Guinea.
MANN: That was quite a scary episode, because I was kidnapped out of my cell by the Gestapo at 3:00 in the morning, the CIO. And they then smuggled me -- pretty roughly, I have to say -- to Equatorial Guinea, which got rougher because I tried to escape along the way.
And then, I thought, well, I'm going to be killed. So, I arrived in Equatorial Guinea with the worst -- the worst possible expectations, basically, hoping that they'd shoot me, not hang me, because I thought that would be much better.
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ANDERSON: Simon Mann. Well, the story and intrigue doesn't end there. Tomorrow night, we'll bring you part two of that interview with Simon Mann as he implicates not just individuals, but Western governments, too.
Up next, the most famous playwright in history comes under new scrutiny.
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JOELY RICHARDSON, ACTRESS: Looking at the facts that I did think, gosh, that's not as we've always thought it to be.
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ANDERSON: The new film with a radical theory -- Shakespeare was a fake.
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ANDERSON: Well, I don't have to tell you that the works of William Shakespeare are some of the most treasured plays and poems ever written. But now, a new film is giving new life to an ancient conspiracy theory. Neil Curry reports.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all know William Shakespeare, the most famous author of all time. But what if I told you Shakespeare never wrote a single word?
NEIL CURRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Roland Emmerich is known as the director of such apocalyptic blockbusters as "2012" and "The Day After Tomorrow." In contrast, his latest venture heads back 400 years to Elizabethan England for a film whose plot provides a similarly destructive result for the reputation of the bard of Stratford-Upon-Avon, William Shakespeare.
This is the man Emmerich considers to be the true author of "King Lear," "Othello," and "Twelfth Night," the English nobleman Edward de Vere.
RHYS IFANS AS EDWARD DE VERE, "ANONYMOUS": Well, I can't very well use my name, can I? I'm the 17th Earl of Oxford, the Lord Great Chamberlain of England, Viscount Bulbeck, Lord of the Scales, Sanford and Badlesmere, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, no.
RAFE SPALL AS WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, "ANONYMOUS": Four hundred pounds?
CURRY: He manages to conceal his identity by paying a semi-literate actor, Will Shakespeare, to take credit for his work.
IFANS AS DE VERE: You shall begin rehearsals immediately. It must not be performed until I tell you, and you may only have a day's notice.
SPALL AS SHAKESPEARE: Well, that will be expensive, like keeping all the actors ready, and then having the props made cheaply.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you? Nice to see you.
CURRY: Among those walking the red carpet before the film's British premier at the London Film Festival were actors who've grown up steeped in Shakespearean tradition.
Did they subscribe to the conspiracy theory, as such figures as Mark Twain, Sigmund Freud, and Orson Welles had done before? Or did they regard it as much ado about nothing?
ROLAND EMMERICH, DIRECTOR, "ANONYMOUS": There was this incredible hunt for anything to prove that he was a writer going on for quite a long time by quite many scholars, and they didn't find anything.
IFANS: It's definitely not 100 percent that William of Stratford was the author, so I think it's our duty as actors and directors and spectators to ask the question. We owe it to whoever wrote this to offer up a candidate.
IFNAS AS DE VERE: You had a poem published today.
SPALL AS SHAKESPEARE: Published? What? Do you mean like in a book?
SPALL: If you're a fan of Roland's movies, and you go and see this film, and it creates an intrigue in these plays, and you go and see them with a new set of eyes, then that's positive.
SEBASTIAN ARMESTO, ACTOR: I'm really happy with Shakespeare having written the plays.
RICHARDSON: Looking at the facts that I did think, gosh, that's not as we've always thought it to be.
CURRY (on camera): Well, classic, obvious question, where do you stand on the ownership debate, sir?
DAVID THEWLIS, ACTOR: I don't know. I don't know. I'm sick of hearing about it, really.
CURRY: As the film is released internationally, the next few weeks will answer the question whether it's to be or not to be a commercial success. But the debate over the authorship of Shakespeare's works is likely to continue for a good deal longer than that.
Neil Curry, CNN, London.
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ANDERSON: Well, whoever was the true author, the works of William Shakespeare have given us hundreds of phrases that we still use today.
Take a look at some of them. "Good riddance," for example. "Foul play." "Up in arms." "Love is blind." That is more far good for words. Many of them all coming from -- or all of those coming from Shakespeare. Some of them were surprising to us. We hit the streets of London for a little English history quiz.
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UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Can you tell me where the following phrases come from? "A foregone conclusion," "I wear my heart on my sleeve," "if music be the food of love, play on," "in a pickle," and "a twinkling of an eye."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, certainly one of them at least is Shakespeare, and so I assume they're all Shakespeare.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, they are. I think we're putting on this one. And what's your reaction to the fact that we use so many of Shakespeare's phrases in everyday language?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's absolutely tremendous. I just think it's terribly sad that more people don't realize and think they're such cliches, and actually, they came from the Great Bard himself.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: What's your reaction to the fact that so many of Shakespeare's phrases are used in common English language?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I knew that he invented a lot of words, so I figured by extension he would invent a lot of phrases, as well. And I'm in England, so I figured maybe it was Shakespeare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE; I wouldn't have said they were to Shakespeare, but it doesn't surprise me the amount of quotes he had over the years and the amount of novels he wrote and stories, so yes. Quite surprised with that one, there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What a great guy. I wish he was alive today.
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ANDERSON: Well, Shakespeare also wrote "all that glitters is not gold," but try telling that to the young man in our Parting Shots tonight. A poor government office worker is being called the real-life Slumdog Millionaire after he tried out for a television quiz show and won the largest prize ever awarded in India's history, a million dollars.
Sushil Kumar was earning just $120 a month when he became a contestant on the show on Tuesday. He says he'll buy a new home for his wife and pay off his parents' debts. "All is well that ends well," as Shakespeare might have said.
I'm Becky Anderson, thanks for watching. The world news headlines and "BackStory" will follow this short break. Don't go away.
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