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After Brexit, What Next? Despite Government Announcement of Fallujah Liberation, Humanitarian Crisis, Fighting Continues. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 26, 2016 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:25] BECKY ANDERSON HOST: Hello, and welcome to Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson for you in London.
Following the fallout of Britain's decision to get out of the EU, this country may now be pushed out of the club before it is ready to jump.
Foreign ministers from the EU's six founding members are demanding that it starts the divorce process as soon as possible. That as we're counting
down the hours until the first of the world's major markets opens again. Remember, these markets across the board losing $2 trillion in the
aftermath of the vote on Friday. And that's, perhaps, why for some the Brexit is turning into what's becoming known as regretxit.
An online petition calling for a second vote now has well over 3 million signatures. The number got so big so fast a parliamentary committee says
it's looking into allegations of fraud.
Well, the vote is also throwing Britain's second largest political party into disarray. There are growing calls for the Labour Party leader Jeremy
Corbyn to step down. And he's now fired his would-be foreign minister after reports he was plotting a coup.
Corbyn, who backed remain insists he is not going anywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY CORBYN, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: Our policies on trade, economy and migration will have to change in light of the referendum vote, but that
cannot be left to the likes of Johnson, Farage and Gove. Labour will fight to ensure that our agenda is at the heart of the negotiations over
withdrawal from the European Union that lie ahead, including the freedom to shape
our economy to work for all, maintain social and employment protections that benefit all and whoever leads the government is intensely held to
account -- to democratic account throughout the whole process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That's the opposition Labour Party leader.
Everything feels so up in the air in London right now. There are way more questions than answers about what happens next. So, to discuss all of this
with me now, CNN political contributor Robin Oakley, and Britian MP Kwazi Kwarteng who backed the leave campaign coming to you shortly.
Robin, firstly, you are celebrating 50 years covering British politics this yera. Have you ever known a time like this?
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: No. It's complete shock and dismay. And I've never seen so much anger among people after a result.
You know, usually people say even if they've lost the argument, their side has not won an election, they settle for it at the end of the day. This
time around, everybody is pointing a finger of blame -- young people blaming the old people, many people old people.
Many people blaming the Labour leader for engaging in this campaign with all the enthusiasm of a (inaudible) who has found a slug in his lettuce.
It really is a degree of amazement, too, that it's actually happened.
ANDERSON: And a lot of emotion, you can hear it behind us here, with more protests outside what are the houses of parliament. Kwasi, you have
written that it was to Cameron's immense credit that he gave the British people on a question that had been raging for
years. But you say in the end, project fear failed.
There are those who say that what Cameron and those who were pushing for remain in the EU said would happen is exactly what happened. This is not
project fear but project reality and the market is indicative of that.
KWASI KWARTENG, BRITIHS PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I think we get too focused on what's happening in the markets. The people have spoken. I used to work
in financial markets. I remember 9/11, I remember 2008. Markets go up and down.
The British people were not mindful of the markets. They're thinking of their long history. It's been 1,000 years as an independent country, 43
years in the EU, and in the long-term people had made a decision not to stay in the EU. And that decision should be respected.
ANDERSON: $2 trillion worth of value knocked off financial assets is an awful lot of money. And I agree with you, there was a lot of betting going
on in the after market -- the problem is, Kwasi, that nobody has any idea about what happens next. I think we all agree on that. And markets, and
investors hate uncertainty. And that is what they've got. Tell me what happens next
KWARTENG: There will be a period of uncertainty. But we're not going to leave the EU tomorrow morning. That isn't going to happen. Only a child
would think that everything changes.
We've got to negotiate a situation in which maybe between two and four years we will be within
the EU and then we will manage an ordered transition out of it and then in the future we will be an independent country, which is what many millions
of people have voted for on Thursday. And it was a majority.
[11:05:11] ANDERSON: Two to four years, that doesn't suggest to me there's any clarity any time soon, Robin.
OAKLEY: No. No clarity soon. And isn't it interesting that the people who were so determined to get us out of Europe, to get Britain out of
Europe, are in no hurry at all to actually (inaudible) on with the arrangement. As I say, that's doing (inaudible) and carefully and quietly,
you know, take back control. That was the big slogan, all true
KWARTENG: You are a principle journalist. You know that you are not going to get change the next day. You also know that we've been in this
organization for 43 years. It's not going to be the case that in a week we have a suddenly total different arrangement. We have to have a managed and
ordered process and that's what we will undertake.
But at the end of that process, we will be out of the EU. We'll, have an arrangement. We will trade. We will have good neighborly relations, but
we will not be in the EU. And that's what 17 million people voted for.
ANDERSON: Let's work through a number of issues, then. Who will negotiate Britain's exit from the EU on behalf of the British people? Front page of
the Sunday Telegraph for you, for example, today, Torries at war.
Let's just bring up -- I wanted to get our viewers a sense of who those are who are in the running
for the leadership of the party.
We have got three candidates effectively, one of whom our viewers will know a lot about and that is Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London, and the
leading light of the leave campaign.
Robin, is he going to run the country going forward?
OAKLEY: It's quite possibly that Boris Johnson will, because the one thing he has got going for him is that he engages with the electorate. He's an
entertainer. He's a showman. And we've moved into an age of showbiz politics, nevermind the issues these days. And I'm not sure that Boris was
completely convinced that the issue he was arguing for in this campaign, but Boris Johnson can put himself forward to his party as someone who has
won the London mayor's election and who possibly tipped the balance towards leave in this referendum.
So, he's got that going for him.
Against that, many people feel that he sold out his party, that he sold out his colleagues by making up his mind so late and drawing all of the
attention to himself. And a lot of people will vote for Theresa May within the conservative party, as a stop Boris candidate because perhaps
she took a very quiet campaign. She didn't have a lot to say. She was probably a bit of a leaver by instinct, but she stayed with the remain
camp.
ANDERSON: Kwasi, one conservative MP quoted in the Sunday Times newspaper today says there is a special place in hell reserved for Boris, and Gove --
that's Michael Gove, current justice secretary in Cameron's government. He and Gove have basically engineered a right-wing coup.
KWARTENG: It wasn't a coup. I mean, there was 17 million people. I mean, we've got to understand the significance of this, and Robin knows
parliamentary history and political history. 17 million people voted is the biggest vote in British political democracy.
It wasn't a coup, it was millions of people, sensible people, deciding that they wanted one side of the question. And I don't know who the person who
said that, but we've got to actually respect the democracy. And when we say we're democrats, we try and export it around the world, and then we
have to abide by this decision.
OAKLEY: It used to be, though, representative democracy with decisions made by elected members of parliament who we can get rid of if..
KWARTENG: That's a separate question. And also we've had many referendums now. We've had the Scottish referendum. We have the initial E C
referendum at the beginning of your career. And we've had devolution referendum.
So, rightly or wrongly, referendums are part of our democracy.
ANDERSON: To that end, let me read you what Robin Harris, a former donor to the Labour Party wrote in today's Sunday Times -- forgive me for using
the paper as my research tool today. But in an article, he titled "Here comes a national nervous breakdown" saying, quote, "it has been brought on
by the reckless decision to hold a referendum, a device denounced by Clement Atlee in 1945 as alien to all our traditions. And, quote, only too
often the instrument of Naziism and fascism."
The point being to both of you, Cameron didn't have to do this. So why did he?
OAKLEY: He did it partly to order to get the Torry leadership. He started hinting and giving way to the euro skeptics in his party who wanted a
referendum early on. And then he became frightened by the advance of UKIP. I think Kwasi might agree, a lot of Conservative MPs felt their seats were
at risk with the advance of UKIP, so he decided this was a good thing and he swung himself behind the referendum.
But, you know, perhaps we ought to remember that it was not only Clement Atlee who said that referendums were not a good idea and a device of
dictators, but Margaret Thatcher, too.
[11:10:03] KWARTENG: I mean, that's all very true. But the fact is, we've had a referendum. Everyone knew what the consequences of a referendum
would be. It was an up and down vote, as the Americans say.
ANDERSON: Will you be regretting at this point?
KWARTENG: I don't think we'll regret it. I think some -- after every election people regret it. After the last election, someone came up to me
and said I regret voting for you. So, I mean, people always have...
ANDERSON: Let's talk about regrets, because let me read you a comment from the Financial Times website. And this is being widely shared on social
media, not just in the UK, let me tell you, but around the world. The student and political journalist Nicholas
Barrett writing, quote, "the younger generation has lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the
lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied."
This isn't politics, this is people, young people and many of them are absolutely furious. They felt incredibly letdown.
KWARTENG: Well, that's democracy.
I mean, the idea that they are going to be shut out -- I mean, I've heard lots of Australian who live and work in London. They are not members of
the EU, and there are lots of South Africans who live and work in London and there are lots of Americans who live in Rome.
The idea -- forgive me, Becky, but the idea that being out of the EU means that no young person can never live, travel, get married and the things
that the man suggested ever again in Europe is incredible scaremongering, totally misleading and wrong.
ANDERSON: You and nobody else can give us any answers as to these questions. What will happen to EU young citizens?
KWARTENG: I know you're a journalist, you want instant answers. We've been in this thing for 43 years.
ANDERSON: We want answers.
KWARTENG: Even if we have article 50, it would take two years. So, I'm saying it will take between two and four years to get us out of this thing.
But this idea that by leaving the EU, you will never be able to work in the EU, you'll never be able to get married to someone in the EU, that you'll
never be able to travel -- this is a complete misrepresentation.
ANDERSON: Let me put this one to you, many people reacting to the vote in social media. Twitter user Dottie James says, and quote, "we've lost our
future because you wanted to relive your romanticized past. I have never been more ashamed, scared and angry" -- Robin.
OAKLEY: Well, we do see this national divide. And I found it personally, you know, and I think young people are also worried about the whole
question of inward investment in Britain. All of those companies who, many of them with a part English-speaking background, who came and invested in
Britain because that was their way into the European Union. And I think a lot of the people who felt that the EU has helped to contribute to
increased immigration and has put jobs at risk because they see it in those terms are going to be disappointed because a lot of those jobs are going to
disappear, because of the inward investment, not coming in. We are already seeing signs from...
KWARTENG: What we're doing is essentially re-fighting the argument, because all of these things were said before the vote. And now the vote
has happened, we've got to move on, we've got to make it work.
ANDERSON: Now, OK, so what now?
KWARTENG: You've asked that about four or five times. I've said to you...
ANDERSON: What now?
KWARTENG: I'll tell you what is going to happen. I can't say to you tomorrow that everything is going to be different because it's a process.
We've been in this thing, as I've said many times for 43 years. It doesn't take a day or a week to unravel that.
But there will be an ordered and managed process. There will be a new prime minister, a new conservative leader. They will invoke article 50 at
some point. I imagine in the next six months to two years and then we will negotiate our exit out.
And I'll tell you this, I think at the end of this process, I think in terms of the opportunities for our young people, globally, I think they
will probably be greater than they were -- than they are now.
OAKLEY; Obviously that's an honest belief, Kwasi, but what kind of..
KWARTENG: I can't guarantee anything. I can't guarantee -- I can't even guarantee your safety if you cross the road. I can't do that.
OAKLEY: But what kind of arrangement with the European Union are those who supported the leave campaign actually looking for? Is it the Norwegian
model, is it the Canadian? We've never been given any clear idea on that.
KWARTENG: See, the vote was an up and down vote. Do we want to be in the EU or do we want leave in it? It wasn't a government vote. It wasn't a
party platform. The vote leave wasn't a rival party, it was a simple proposition about sovereignty and control of
borders. And that was the question.
So we had a big coalition. We had people on the right in politics like myself, we also have the people on the left of politics like John Mann and
even on the further left, like Kate (inaudible).
It was a broad coalition.
And let me say this, that election showed the most extraordinary coalition. We had Hampshire farmers, you had people in the northern towns, you had
labor white working class, you had people in the valleys, and they all came up with the answer they wanted to leave the EU. And it was a great
manifestation of British democracy.
ANDERSON: You'll be back with me a little later this hour. For the time being, gentlemen, thank you very much, indeed.
Scotland is in a predicament after this Brexit vote. The country voted overwhelmingly Thursday to remain in the EU. Well, now it is leaders are
considering another vote.
CNN's Phil Black talked to farmers in Edinburgh about where Scotland should go it alone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[08:15:04] PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Across Scotland's dramatic landscape, you'll find the most iconic beast, the Highland cow.
These cattle are stubborn survivors, bred to endure the cold, windy, often mountainous conditions of their native land. They can also be curious and
friendly.
Every year, the finest of the breed are trucked into Edinburgh for competition in the royal Highland show. It's a chance for farmers to
admire each other's animals and catch up with friends.
This year, they have a lot to talk about.
ALISTAIR MCINTYRE, FARMER: Yeah, it's a very worrying time for us -- for us all.
BLACK: Alistair McIntyre says many Scottish farmers voted against Britain's exit from the
European Union.
MCINTYRE: A lot of farms in Scotland are -- depend on European subsidy money to meet the farm's work.
BLACK: A clear majority of Scots, 62 percent, voted for staying with the EU, but they were outvoted by the rest of the United Kingdom.
Why do you think it matters more to Scottish people than the rest of the UK? Because we've seen that divide, haven't we?
CATHERIN MCKACHINE: Yeah, we've seen that divide, but I think the UK is the UK, we're all part of the UK, but I don't think that Scotland should
ever be on their own and it's causing a lot of animosity.
BLACK: But Scotland is again talking about going it alone. The head of the government here,
Nicolas Sturgeon, says it's highly likely Scotland will have another referendum on independence because Britain is now leaving the EU against
the will of the Scottish people.
Is it fair to describe you as a proud Scot?
DAVID CUTHBERTSON, FARMER: Yes, very much so. But I'm also proud to be a Brit
BLACK: David Cuthbertson thinks Nichola Sturgeon is banging the wrong drum at the wrong time because it's been less than two years since Scots last
voted to reject independence.
CUTHBERTSON: (inaudible) people and said we are having our own way. That's my opinion.
BLACK: I don't think she's the first stubborn Scottish person.
CUTHBERTSON: Oh, no. No, no. You're quite right there.
BLACK: At this huge celebration of Scottish farming traditions, it's hard to find people who like the idea of another independence vote.
Can I ask you about your tartan there? Is that a family tartan?
DAVID MCLAREN, FARMER: Yes, that's the family tartan, McLaren tartan.
BLACK: Independence here, yes or no?
MCLAREN: I would say no.
BLACK: Why?
MCLAREN: I think we're better off together.
BLACK: But there are passionate believers in Scottish independence who say the time is now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we do this and we say we're outside of the EU, that will be a disaster, and therefore our hand has been forced here.
BLACK: It's no surprise the Scottish government is ready to break up the United Kingdom to fight for continued EU membership. But it's not clear if
the famously determined and proud Scottish people are willing to endure yet another bruising referendum campaign.
Phil Black, CNN, Edinburgh.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, CNN's David McKenzie has more now from the Scottish capital, Edinburgh.
And it seems like, Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister, is trying to do everything to have Scotland stay in the European Union. Will it
work?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very hard to tell if it will work. Like everything here, we're in unchartered
territory, Becky, and certainly in contrast to some of those farmers that Phil spoke to at the highland show, here in Edinburgh, to a person just
about, everyone that I've spoken to over the last few days say they want that independence vote. They want any way that they can hang on to EU
membership. And the first minister is using both the threat of an independence vote and saying that she will talk to EU leaders, EU diplomats
in the coming days to try and convince them to let Scotland stay.
But the law is very difficult here and unclear whether even if they do vote for independence here in Scotland in the coming months or years, whether
they can even do that and then rejoin or stay in the European Union -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Just ahead, stay with our continuing coverage of the UK's decision to leave the European Union. You're watching Connect the World
with me, Becky Anderson out of London for you this week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:21:41] ANDERSON: Welcome back to what is a lovely day here in London outside the houses of parliament. You're watching CNN and this is Connect
the World with me, Becky Anderson.
And let's stay with our top story and the reason we are here in London this week and that is the Brexit vote. While some in Britain are lamenting what
could have been if the vote went the other way, foreign ministers from the EU six founding countries are only looking ahead. They say they want the
UK's departure to happen as quickly as possible.
Atika Shubert looks at that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You could call it a Brexit backlash in Berlin. Representatives from the six founding countries of the
European Union gathered in the German capital on Saturday and presented a united front before the cameras. Foreign ministers of Belgium, France,
Germany Italy, Luxembourg and The Netherlands, all demanded Britain begin renegotiating its exit from the EU immediately.
FRANK-WALTER STEINMEIER, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): London also has a responsibility that is wider than just Great Britain.
This is why we jointly say that this process needs to start as soon as possible.
JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We start now. We must be clear, the British people have decided.
BERT KDENDERS, DUTCH FOREIGN MINISTER: We need to turn the page. We don't want a vacuum. And it's important now that these negotiations with the
United Kingdom starts in good faith but as soon as possible.
SHUBERT: At a separate event, German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke with a more conciliatory tone saying there was no hurry for Britain to trigger the
exit process.
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We were sad yesterday that the vote went that way that he is no reason to be in any way
specially nasty during the negotiations.
SHUBERT: Those negotiations cannot begin until Britain invokes article 50 of EU's Lisbon Treaty. And it's not clear when that will happen. But some
EU officials are already growing impatient.
JEAN ASSELBOM, LUXEMBOURG FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Nobody else in the European Union can force article 50 to be invoked. I hope
there won't be a game -- a cat and mouse game.
SHUBERT: Even if talks between Britain and the EU begin quickly, under the Lisbon Treaty, divorce proceedings could last two years or more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, there is now a growing call for a do-over as some feel regrets-it over the vote. More than 3.2 million people have signed a
petition on the UK parliament website. It calls for a second referendum on EU membership. The House of Commons petitions committee says it is
monitoring this petition for suspicious activity and about 77,000 signatures have been removed.
The petition will be discussed by the committee at its meeting next week.
Let's pick apart at lot of this. And Robin is still with, Robin Oakley here at Abingdon Green outside of parliament.
This petition, firstly, does it have any weight?
OAKLEY: No actual constitutional weight. It has some psychological weight in that it shows, you know, a number of people -- a large number of people
very disturbed by this result, and what a shock it has been. But it doesn't have a constitutional significance. All that it can achieve,
effectively, is a debate in the House of Commons. 100,000 votes, signatures or more, and you have to have a debate on it. But it's not
going to change things. And we're not going to have a second referendum.
[11:25:05] ANDERSON: OK, so the European foreign ministers who gathered yesterday to try and hammer out their stance -- where they want to start so
far as these negotiations are concerned can be sure that we're most likely not going to be having another referendum as to whether we stay or leave
the EU in the UK.
So, one of the foreign ministers there in Atika's report is suggesting that they really hope this won't be a cat and mouse game.
OAKLEY: Well, you can understand that European leaders wanting Britain to get on with it as fast as Britain possibly can now, because they don't want
this subject running and running and running. Other referendums are coming up this year. There's one in Hungary about migrant quotas. There's a
referendum coming up in Italy, which could prejudice the Italian government. There's an election in Holland next year with currently
Vilders (ph), the leader of the anti-Islam, anti-Europe party heading the polls.
So the last thing the other European leaders want is other countries having their movements like the Brexit movement in Britain and they want the
process to be finished as quickly as possible.
But then everyone comes at it from their own angle. Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European commission, David Cameron, tried to stop him
getting the job. Mr. Juncker is ready to be nasty. Angela Merkel -- Germans sell a lot of products to Britain, she doesn't want to be nasty.
ANDERSON: Very briefly, where does Scotland fit in all of this.
OAKLEY: Scotland, I mean, it's a fascinating situation that Scotland wants to stay in the
European Union, would the European Union accept an independent Scotland if there's a referendum on that and Scotland goes independent? Not
necessarily because the individual member, the 27 members will each have the right to veto on whether a country joins or not. Spain, for example,
is not going to be keen to encourage that sort of acceptance, because of of the Basques and other regional boots in Spain looking for independence.
Same with one or two other countries across Europe.
ANDERSON: Fascinating stuff. All right, we'll come back to you a little later. In the meantime, you can head over to CNN.com and get more of
Robin's views there. He's written an op-ed entitled "Can wounds ever heal in divided UK?"
He talks about how the UK got here and what he thinks at least comes next.
Well, our continuing coverage of Britain's divorce from the EU will continue from here after this very short break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching Connect the World live from London. We will be here all week outside the houses of parliament as we
continue to analyze the EU referendum that was held here, bitterly divided the United Kingdom. The result was met with shock and anger by some and it
lets a somber mood in places, including here in London, which by the way, voted remain.
There were also scenes of joy, the millions who voted leave, voted for independence from what they call an out-moded and overbearing bureaucracy.
Well, I want to talk about how age groups voted in this referendum. Pollsters say people say
people under 30 voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU during Thursday's referendum. Reem Hassan is one of them and joins me now. I'm also joined
again, and thank you, Kwasi, by the British MP Kwasi Kwarteng from the leave campaign.
Reem, you are a paralegal?
REEM HASSAN, REMAIN VOTER: I am.
ANDERSON: Working in London, but you were born in Scotland and you say you've never felt so lucky as before to have been born there. Why?
HASSAN: I think firstly I as a result of the referendum, this country has been pushing to fear. I know for myself, I can't say that I'm a political
expert in the slightest, but I do my feelings and my feeling is that I don't see a future for myself like I did before in this country.
As I said, I was born in Scotland and I think inevitably we're going to have a United Kingdom which is going to be breaking into pieces and this
United Kingdom and I feel that if Scotland do break away, I'll need to apply for a Scottish passport and see myself in a country which actually
believes in what I believe in, and that we are better together, not better in closing our doors and saying that we don't need anybody else's help.
ANDERSON: There's been a lot of talk about how Millennials and youngsters feel so letdown by what's happened. Let's break down the numbers, though,
because I think this is important on how people voted by age categories.
You can see here, let's get the graphic up, that in the 18 to 24 age category, for example, three-quarters of voters voted remain and 60 percent
of those 65 and over voted to leave.
But here's the catch, there was a smaller turnout between the ages of 18 to 24, only 36 percent of them -- I was really surprised by this came out to
vote compared to more than 80 percent of over 65 year olds. So, if more young people had turned out, do you think that might have tipped the
balance?
KWARTENG: It might have been different, but every election in British history has always had
a differential turnout between young and hold. This isn't a new thing, this always happens. And we never really (inaudible) after those elections
divide the electorate up and say, well, the old people did this, and the young people did that, so the young people deserve this sort of government.
I mean, I'm a Conservative MP, we've got a Conservative government, I suspect that many of the 18 to 24-year-olds, if it had just been restricted
to that age group, we wouldn't have had a Conservative government. I mean, that's what happens in elections. And I think one thing I would say is
that 17 million people, which is more than any other single vote in British history, voted to leave, and that should be respected, too.
ANDERSON: That should be respected, too, Reem, yeah? You get that, right? I mean...
HASSAN: Look, I can actually understand why people voted to leave. I do understand their views. But I don't agree with them. I don't agree with
them in the slightest. I think that the referendum, it started on this premise of all of these promises, which now have actually turned out to
become lies. 350 million pounds going to the NHS each week. Within two hours, that's been taken away. Oh, sorry, no, that's not actually...
ANDERSON: That was a pledge made by the leave campaign.
KWARTENG: Look, I fought three general election campaigns. And during an election politicians say all kinds of things, okay? And then after the
election we come together and we try and make things work. It's very bitter. I've lost elections. It's very
bitter. It's very hard when you lose elections. It's very tough. And you sort of think, oh well, they are idiots. You know, they don't see things.
They were lied to.
But the democratic process is what it is.
ANDERSON: The issue is this, though, this is generational, isn't it? That's how so many people I've spoken to here, particularly people under
the age of 50, are feeling really awkward about what happens next. This is a generational shift. That's how they feel. They've being in the EU
now for over 50 years -- 40 years -- over 40 years, and whether you buy in to the EU as project or not, whether you think it works on the not, things
will change significantly.
KWARTENG: I think they will change a b it. I'm hearing all sorts of scare stories about young people not being able to work. I mean, there are
hundreds and thousands of South Africans in Britain. South Africa is not in the EU. They can still work here. There are hundreds and thousands of
Americans that I know all across Europe. I know many of them. I know many people. They are not in the EU. They can still work there.
So, this idea that somehow young people will be shut out of Europe or that they're young people will be shut out of our country I think is a complete
blind alley. It's not true.
The global world that we live in isn't like that. I mean, I might as well point out now that 170 countries are not in the EU. They can still travel
and young people still have opportunities in those countries.
[11:35:ANDERSON: So what do you need to hear, then, from the government next, a government who, a government who at this point at least, will be
taking decisions about who will be leading the Conservative Party and how we will divorce ourselves from the EU. What do you want to hear? What are
your biggest concerns going forward and what do politicians need to tell you?
HASSAN: My biggest concern right now is that I don't trust them. I don't have any trust in them whatsoever.
ANDERSON: Does that worry you?
KWARTENG: Well, people, it does worry me. But that's a perennial complaint. I mean, I don't think if remain had won, people would have more
trust in politicians. In fact, the 17 million people who voted leave will probably have equally been disappointed.
ANDERSON: Despite the fact that many people say that they are going to be affected -- many of them will be affected most so far as -- if we're
looking at an economy over the next two to five years, maybe slow as far its growth -- investment is going to be tough and...
KWARTENG: I mean, like you, I've been doing a lot of media in the last few days. And it seems to me that we're re-fighting the referendum.
I mean, we had all of this debate. We had all these arguments for about four months before the actual vote. All of these points were made. No one
is making new points. And then when we had a referendum.
ANDERSON: I'll tell me why that is, because nobody can answer the questions about what happens next. That's why we're going backwards rather
than forwards.
KWARTENG: In the previous segment, you asked me that. And pointed out very rightly that we've been in there for 43 years. And I'm saying that
you're not going to get change in a day. If you've been in a complicated international organization for that length of time, I mean, I'm only 41
years old, I feel old. So 43 years is a long time. And to unwind ourselves from that is a process. It will be managed, it'll be ordered,
but it will take some time. It might take two or three years.
HASSAN: I don't think it will take two or three years at all. I think that's -- you're going to have (inaudible) in place to make it in two or
three years if you're going to have a Britain that's going to be strong. It's not going to be strong.
KWARTENG: But really...
HASSAN: I think you just have to look at the figures. We, at the beginning of this referendum, at the beginning of this campaign, we were
the fifth largest economy in the world.
KWARTENG: And we still are.
HASSAN: No, we're not, we're sixth. And we're dropping. This is the result of the lies, which the politicians have brought foward.
KWARTENG: OK. OK. I know it's very difficult when you lose elections. This was a very, very big, very, very significant election. I know there
are millions of people who are very upset. But there are also millions of people who are very happy. This is what democracy is.
And as a democrat, one would have thought that people would just respect the will of the people. We all knew the referendum was revolved around
this question. We all knew that it would be resolved one way or the other. And now I think it's incumbent on people to accept the verdict of the
people.
ANDERSON: Can I just ask you one thing before we leave, do you think that people who voted and understood what they were voting for? This was a
referendum about in or out of the EU. In the end, many people will say people didn't vote about whether they wanted to be in or our of the EU, it
was a whole lot of national issues and that worries people.
KWARTENG: The thing about democracy is that you do count the numbers. There's no inquest as to -- I mean, pollsters might be interested in what
drove people to vote in a certain way but, unfortunately, the results stand independent of that. I mean, every election I've been to, I remember
Liv Dems (ph), I was just saying earlier, someone said to me in my constituency, I voted for you
and I regret it. I mean, that's what happens.
(inaudible) this guy in my constituency.
So people have lots of different motives to vote, there are lots of psychological reasons, there are lots of emotive reasons, there are lots of
rational reasons. We're complicated people. Human beings are very complicated. But I think we all know how democracy works, we all knew how
the referendum worked. We all knew about how the Scottish referendum would work. We knew -- we've seen these things before, it's not a new thing.
And, yes, it's difficult. It's emotionally very draining. And it's almost as if people are going through the five stages of grief when on the losing
side.
I probably would have done the same if we had lost. But I think at some point we've got to pull together. It's a great country. And we've got to
make this thing work. And we've got to be united.
With that, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us.
HASSAN: Thank you.
ANDERSON: We saw a drubbing of global stock markets on Friday when the final vote came
in to the UK. Middle East investors missed that selloff, but opened today to respond to the uncertainty gripping the world. John Defterios joining
us from Abu Dhabi to look at the results see what investors can expect on Monday.
John, Middle East investors not in many when the final tally came down Friday. How would you describe their reaction today?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, in fact, Becky, we started on shaky ground here and we finished with losses right across the
board, but it could have been a whole lot worse. In fact, if you look at the results on Friday with $3 trillion of market cap, I think the Middle
East investors got off rather easy with the exception of one. Let's start with Saudi Arabia. It was down 4 percent at the open, Becky, but finished
down with a loss of 1 percent.
So, it clawed back a lot. The government said it wants to proceed with its bond plans for $10 billion. that's a big question mark going forward in
this climate. Dubai was down 3 percent. But the one that took the biggest hit was Cairo down nearly 6 percent. And it's a very large emerging
market. And it raises the questions about emerging market contagion.
But let's be honest, the moment of truth is going to happen in Asia in Monday morning trading. And we're going to be watching a number of factors
-- oil, which was down 5 percent. Very important to the Middle East. Gold shot up 5 percent. It was a safe haven. Will investors continue to move
to bonds and gold with all this uncertainty? And of course we're watching the British pound and the dollar rate, which will open in Asia at 1.36.
Now, investors are climbing a wall of worry, if you will. Who is going to be the next prime minister of the UK? Will more countries line up for
referendums going forward? And, finally, if we see further selling in the pound and the euro, the influence it has on European banks and home
builders, very important questions, Becky, and will be put to the test on Monday morning in Asia as well.
ANDERSON: John Defterios is in Abu Dhabi, our normal home.
This week, we are in London. You're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me I'm Becky Anderson. We will be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You are watching CNN and Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson outside the houses of parliament.
Well, if you thought there was a meltdown in the Conservative Party here with the resignation of the leader of the Conservative Party and the prime
minister, of course, David Cameron in the wake of the results of the EU referendum Friday, that Britain has voted to leave the EU.
Well, in the opposition Labour Party, there's all manner of nastiness going on as well. Many people blaming the opposition Labour leader for not doing
enough to support the remain campaign. He has a shadow cabinet as it is known in the opposition party here in British politics, and a number of
them have resigned in the wake of this vote.
That, after the sacking of the shadow foreign minister. Well, the Labour Party, or many at least in the Labour Party, think the ministers did the
right thing by resigning. Former Labour Party adviser Ayesha Hazarika joining us now.
They are dropping like flies, as it were.
AYESHA HAZARIKA, FORM. LABOUR PARTY ADVISER: They certainly are. It's going to be a wonder if there will be anybody other than Jeremy Corbyn,
Dianne Abbott and John McDonald left by the end of the day.
ANDRESON: Do you think they will be?
HAZARIKA: Well, I think there will be a few peope.
But, look, the Labour Party is very, very divided about this. But the Labour Party is very angry -- the Labour Party was generally united about
wanting to remain in the European Union. That was the Labour Party members, the MPs and of course the trade union movement who the Labour
Party is very close to.
In the end, people feel that Jeremy Corbyn did not step up and really give it his all in this campaign. He went on holiday, for example, at a really
crucial point during this campaign. And this sort of separation from the EU is going to have a profound effect on lots of people that need a Labour
government, but also a lot of Labour supporters as well.
[11:45:16] ANDERSON: Some suggested he actually voting leave himself.
HAZARIKA: If he had -- look, I don't want to prejudge what he did, but he has a long-standing
history of being very euro-skeptic and I think he really miscalculated how to handle this.
This was the biggest political fight of a generation. Leaving the EU is much bigger than a general election. You don't sort of take it back. And
people feel he did not do what he asked them to do and he didn't step up.
ANDERSON: If the Labour Party are going to be relevant, then, in what do you say is the biggest decision in a generation, what needs to happen next?
HAZARIKA: Well, I think the Labour Party feels so divided and the MPs feel that they can't be led by Jeremy Corbyn. I feel that this leadership
challenge is going to happen. There's going to be a vote of no confidence in the next 24 hours. I think that will lead to a former leadership
challenge.
The Labour Party has to get behind somebody who they feel can help negotiate -- be part of the negotiating team that does a Brexit that still
looks after the interests for the vulnerable in Britain, but they also need a leader who can reach out to Britain, to Labour supporters in Britain --
look, this referendum threw a big mirror up in what's happening in British society. And one of the things that's happening in politics is the Labour
Party, which was always the home of the traditional working class, is hemorrhaging support from those areas, particularly the north of England.
So, they will be looking for a leader who can make that connection to a traditional core working class once again.
ANDERSON: Is there an obvious character?
HAZARIKA: Well, it's very early to say. I mean, I think what the Labour Party MPs have to do is really reflect over the next couple of days about
who they think would be a good leader.
My strong advice to them, having kind of started the firing gun on this, Jeremy Corbyn is still very popular with the membership of the Labour
Party. So he will be tough to beat. He's showing signs he's going nowhere. The Labour Party needs to get around one person. What would be
disastrous for the other bits of the party would be to have two or three candidates, because that would split the vote in terms of trying to sort of
-- so they need to get the rally around one person.
I think a woman would be good. I think the Labour Party feels it would be good to have a woman leader. But again somebody that can connect with
ordinary people.
ANDERSON: And Ayesha, how quickly does this need to happen, because there is a possibility that given everything else that is going on here in the UK
at present, there could be a snap election at some point within the next, what, six to nine months. How quickly does the opposition Labour Party
need to sort itself out?
HAZARIKA: The Labour Party needs to snap back in to shape whether or not it's got a new leader or not ASAP, because every day does count.
If there's a general election, a snap general election, the Labour Party could stand to lose a lot of seats, potentially up to 100 seats. So, not
only is Labour fighting, it could be fighting for its electoral survival. And remember, it doesn't have a lot of money either. So, we need to -- if
we're going to change the leader, we need to get a leader in place quickly and we need somebody who can get in support and also shore the Labour Party
up as a fighting electoral machine again.
ANDERSON: Ayesha, with that, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed. Fascinating times.
HAZARIKA: Thank you very much for having me.
ANDERSON: A senior Iraqi general says the battle for Fallujah is over after government troops captured the final ISIS stronghold on Sunday.
Got to get to some of the other stories that are making headlines, of course, around the world.
This operation began last month and Iraq says more than 1,800 ISIS militants were killed, but now the humanitarian crisis remains. Tens of
thousands of civilians fled the battle only to find themselves stranded in the desert heat. My colleague Ben Wedeman went to speak with them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what passes for shelter if you've fled Fallujah. They came to these camps
outside the city to escape ISIS. There's no escape, however, from the elements.
"All I want is a tent," says Samir (ph). He's been here with his family for a week.
"I ask God, I ask the government, give me a tent to protect my family."
More than 200 people are huddled in front of a mosque, taking turns sleeping inside. These are the people whose hearts and minds the Iraqi
government says it's trying to win. But hearts and minds are wilting in the scorching desert heat.
"Are we criminals?" asked Muhammad (ph), addressing the government
"No, we're people. You couldn't protect us from ISIS and now you're crushing us."
Says Iman (ph), "We escaped from the tyranny of ISIS, now we need the Iraqi government to stand with us."
The lucky ones, if you can call them that, do have tents but often several families are packed inside.
This is the only toilet in this camp. This camp has more than 3,600 people. It's only being used by the women. The men just go out into the desert.
This camp was set up less than a week ago. And, really, the facilities are basic.
(voice-over): The open cesspit is in the middle of the camp, a recipe for disaster, say relief workers. Aid groups like the Norwegian Refugee Council
are doing what they can, handing out food and water. Demand far exceeds supply, says Karl Schembri.
[11:50:42] KARL SCHEMBRI, NORWEGIAN RELIEF COUNCIL: We can only reach up to 5 liters per person per day which is dangerously low in this heat as you
can feel. We must be quite close to 50 degrees today. And it will get much worse next month.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): That's just over a gallon of water a day in temperatures topping 120 degrees Fahrenheit. The slightest relief from the
heat and the dust, no small accomplishment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: And Ben joining us now live from Amman in Jordan.
Ben, how long do those who were in Fallujah who are now in these camps think that they will be there for?
ANDERSON: It could be weeks, Becky, it could be months. Keep in mind that many of the buildings, the homes in Fallujah, are either destroyed, badly
damaged or are dangerous because there are still IEDs inside.
We've heard -- we've seen various statements from relief organizations expressing concern about these announcements that somehow Fallujah is
completely free of ISIS now. The worry is that people are going to try to rush back, go to their homes and find that either they have no homes to go
back to or they are very dangerous.
So what we've seen in previous experiences where the Iraqi forces have retaken a city, there's oftentimes occasional, sporadic outbreaks of
fighting for weeks afterwards and, of course, as I said, much of the city, for instance, Ramadi was 70 percent destroyed.
Fallujah perhaps less. But it's going to be a long time before people can actually go back and start rebuilding their lives in Fallujah -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Meantime, the senior Iraqi general says the battle for Fallujah is over, suggesting
more than 1,800 militants, ISIS militants, have been killed. Is that it? Is that Fallujah clear of ISIS at this point?
WEDEMAN: don't think so. I think by and large ISIS has been crushed in Fallujah, but we've been there after they've made similar announcements and
I can tell you there was a lot of gunfire. And two times we went to the middle of the city and after being assured that the city was now under
government control, there was a lot of shooting.
And there is still fighting going on on the outskirts of this last neighborhood al-Julan (ph) that Iraqi forces took and declared that they
reconquered. So it's not the end of it in any sense of the word. There is still fighting going on and there will be for weeks to come.
ANDERSON: OK.
Well, certainly the Iraqi government would have us think that ISIS is on the run as will the Americans and others in the coalition.
Are they? What happens next? I mean, Mosul? That's next on the agenda. Clearly how big of a fight is that going to be?
WEDEMAN: well, keep in mind that Fallujah at sort of in the best of times had a population
of almost 300,000. Mosul, also in the best of times, had a population of 2 million. It is a much, much larger city. It's a city far away from
Baghdad, hundreds of kilometers to the north. So in terms of an offensive to retake Mosul, you're going to have to have secure, long supply lines.
Now, in fact, we were up south of Mosul yesterday. We were with the Iraqi defense minister. They were talking about Mosul being retaken by the end
of the year. That's a tall order.
ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman for you here on CNN.
You're watching Connect the World live from London. We'll have a few Parting Shots for you as we close out this hour here on CNN. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:56:20] ANDERSON: Who will we dress for now? An editor for the fashion magazine Vogue asked that when she learned that photographer Bill
Cunningham died on Saturday. He was 87 years old.
New Parting Shots this evening. And we remember a man who was, for many, more than a photographer. He was an icon, an inspiration. Working for The
New York Times for four decades.
Cunningham never stopped looking at the world through his lens, but many were most in awe at the man behind the camera, a man effortlessly
comfortable beside the cat walk as models draped in couture strutted by.
But one who let the streets speak to him, snapping shots of normal people like you and me
walking by. Bill Cunningham, age 87.
A loss for all of us there.
I'm Becky Anderson. That was Connect the World coming to you live from Westminster at this behind me is the seat of power in this country, of
course. But at this hour, there's a lot of confusion as to who wields that power as the political fallout of Brexit spreads, consuming not only the
political party who are, of course, in charge here in the UK, but also the opposition Labourt Party. This is a story that will have many ups and
downs in the days, weeks and years to come.
We'll be on it and we'll be on everything that happens here and it will probably impact all of us. So where you are thanks for doing that. Stay
with us. I will be here all week. Thanks for watching. Coming up after a short break, more from CNN.
END
