Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
New York Is Seeing More Coronavirus Deaths Than Any Country Outside The U.S.; Boris Johnson Is Out Of Intensive Care; Keeping Your Cats Indoors. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 10, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:19 ]
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everybody. I'm Hala Gorani. Once again, we continue to cover the coronavirus pandemic.
Let's get you straight to our top stories this hour. New York is seeing more coronavirus deaths than any country outside the U.S. We are live in
New York City.
Also, here in London, Boris Johnson is out of intensive care, but has a long way to go in his recovery. We are outside the hospital.
And do you need to keep your pets -- your cats specifically inside during this pandemic? If you're self-isolating, the British Veterinary Association
thinks you should. I'll speak to that organization.
Well, as signs of normalcy return to some parts of Asia, Europe and the United States are in the throes still of dealing with the coronavirus
pandemic.
Johns Hopkins University puts the global cases, the number of global cases at over 1.6 million with more than 97,000 deaths. That's almost 1100,000
deaths around the world.
The University of Washington says the U.S. will reach its highest daily number of deaths on or around Sunday, and this is happening as sources say
the White House is in talks of reopening, is in talks, is considering reopening the economy as early as May.
Now, as I mentioned there at the top of the hour, the State of New York is seeing the most cases of COVID-19, more cases in fact of coronavirus than
any other country outside the United States.
So many people are dying that unclaimed bodies will be buried on New York City's Hart Island, which has been used for years as a city cemetery for
people for instance who don't have a known next of kin or can't afford a funeral.
Athena Jones has our report from New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In New York, the number of new coronavirus-related hospitalizations is falling, but
Governor Cuomo once again faced the harsh reality of leading a state experiencing another day of extreme loss of life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We have to keep that curve flat. We have lost many of our brothers and sisters. And if you don't want to stay home for
yourself, stay home for someone you love, right? That's what this stay-at- home campaign is all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES (voice over): New York City turning to Hart Island a potter's field to bury the unclaimed dead. Dr. Anthony Fauci said it is tough to see the
country suffering.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: With the increase and the real adherence to the physical
separation, the guidelines, at the same time as we're seeing the increase in deaths, we're seeing rather dramatic decrease in the need for
hospitalizations. So that is going in the right direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES (voice over): But even with early signs of improvement, state leaders urging residents to stay at home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): When we all take this seriously, we will save lives in Michigan. We will save the front line healthcare providers
that are struggling to keep up with the need and we will come out of this in a more robust way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES (voice over): The Director of the C.D.C. says the U.S. is approaching the peak of the coronavirus pandemic, and it will take some
time for the country to open up again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Dr. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, C.D.C.: No, it is not going to be one size fits all. It is going to be using the data that we have from surveillance
to really understand where it is.
The most important place is for us to begin to reopen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES (voice over): Across the nation, portraits of America on pause. Cities virtually empty, businesses closed, and lives stretched with people
seeking unemployment.
But even in tough times, some moments of the nation at its best, volunteers stepping in to help at food banks, making sure families are fed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lending a hand and helping a neighbor in need is what Pittsburgh does best.
CHEF JOES ANDRES, FOUNDER, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: Here, we are feeding nurses, doctors, National Guard in front of the Javits Center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES (voice over): Chef Jose Andres converting his New York City food hall to serve thousands.
California writing these notes of support to New York on this shipment of ventilators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We can't just sit on assets when we can save lives and help our fellow Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES (voice over): And overnight, cities glowing in blue, a way to say thank you to essential workers in all industries.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right, that was Athena Jones reporting there. You saw in her report, Anthony Fauci, America's top Infectious Disease expert. He says
several antibody tests are being developed right new, and validated.
These tests can't tell you whether you're currently infected, but importantly they can determine whether you have previously been infected
and that will reveal important answers about your immunity and your ability to infect others.
[10:05:10]
GORANI: He spoke with CNN just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: Within a period of a week or so, we're going to have a rather large number of tests that are available.
One of the things that you mentioned that's important is because other countries have gotten burned by this. These antibody tests are tests that
we do on other diseases, but they need to be validated.
You need to make sure that they're consistent and that they're accurate. And that's what we're doing now, both with the N.I.H. and the F.D.A. is
validating them.
As soon as they get validated, they'll be out there for people to use.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, that was Anthony Fauci. We'll be speaking with Athena Jones for more on what is happening in New York and those mass graves being
dug on Hart Island.
Let's bring in Joe Johns. He's at the White House. Now, the United States according to many top economists is on its way to entering recession
territory, and there are reports that some advisers in the White House are telling the President to stop appearing at those briefings and allowing
medical professionals to take center stage because potentially they believe it could be hurting his approval ratings. What are you hearing at the White
House?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, the President certainly has seen some issues in the polling very recently. His opinion
approvals have certainly dropped, and there is a bit of concern here that it isn't helping the President.
Also the President, at some time has appeared to conflict with what the medical professionals were saying. The President very much wants to move
the United States into reopening, if you will, to remove the Federal restrictions on people coming and going to work.
Important also to say, the states are the ones who have really put legal teeth into those restrictions. So it is not just up to the President, but
for his part, he wants to get the economy going again. It is quite clear there is a clash because the medical professionals, the scientists, the
people in the coronavirus team have said it is fine to lay out the metrics and determine under what conditions we might reopen the United States if
you will, but that doesn't mean we ought to say for certain that on May 1st, the United States goes back to work.
A real conflict there, and behind the scenes as well, we're hearing that people at the White House are urging the President to get this thing going
again, even though there is certainly that possibility and there is certainly that fear that if the United States does go open for business
again too soon, you could have a reinfection, if you will, which would lead us to have to shut down a second time which would create even more economic
damage perhaps than the first -- Hala.
GORANI: All right Joe Johns at the White House. Thanks very much.
Let's head over to New York where we find our Athena Jones, and Athena, we were telling our viewers about these really grim and depressing numbers
from New York that it is the highest death toll than any other country outside the United States currently and we saw in your report those mass
graves being used, we believe at least some of them for COVID-19 patients who succumbed to the disease.
Are we seeing any encouraging signs at all right now from New York?
JONES: Hala, yes. Hi, Hala. Yes, there are some improving signs. We have been seeing this over the course of this weekend, the trend continues. It
is a hopeful trend. A decrease in the number of people being hospitalized for coronavirus.
We saw a huge drop reported from Tuesday into Wednesday from 585 on Tuesday down to 200 on Wednesday. So that is certainly a good sign.
The number of people being admitted to the Intensive Care Unit also continues to fall, as does the number of people who need breathing tubes,
to be hooked up to a ventilator because they're struggling to breathe. That number falling, too.
But as you said, New York State reporting the highest single day death toll for the third day in a row, 799 people dying so that is certainly not a
good news and that's what gives folks pause.
You know, the governor saying, look, what we're doing is working to slow down the numbers to make it so that hospitals aren't overwhelmed. We have
to keep doing what we're doing because it is working. If we stopped you doing these social distancing measures, we're going to see those numbers go
back up.
And one more thing about the numbers, you mentioned Hart Island, more than 7,000 New Yorkers have been killed by the virus, that's more than twice the
number that died on 9/11.
But when it comes to Hart Island, that's an island off the coast of the Bronx, it is north of here in Long Island Sound. For the last 150 years, it
has been used to bury unclaimed bodies, more than about a million people are interred there.
Well, now it going to be used or it is being used for COVID patients as well and there is going to be a slight change to the rules. In the past, a
body would go to Hart Island after 30 days or 60 days. Now, because of the influx, so many people dying, that number is down to 14 days. So if a body
goes unclaimed, it ends up in Hart Island to be interred there.
[10:10:08]
JONES: Now, the bodies are labeled properly so that families later on can come and disinter and have a proper burial. But that's one sign of just the
toll and the strain this is putting on the system, also Governor Cuomo signing an executive order last night that allows licensed funeral
directors from across the country to come here to New York's rescue to help out these strained funeral directors here in New York.
Just to give you a sense, these are people who are used to seeing 30 or 40 calls a month, now seeing that number every day -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Athena Jones, thanks very much for your reporting from New York.
My next guest is the COVID-19 Envoy to the World Health Organization, Dr. David Nabarro, joins me now live from Geneva. Doctor, thanks for being with
us.
DR. DAVID NABARRO, COVID-19 ENVOY TO THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: Thank you.
GORANI: First of all, some countries as you well know in Europe are starting to lift restrictions. The Czech Republic among others. Do you
think it is too soon or just about right for some of these countries to start getting their -- trying to get their economies going again?
NABARRO: Thank you very much. I just have to say as somebody who used to live in New York how saddened I am to hear the news, but also, I am
heartened that things seem to be starting to turn the corner.
Just what we're seeing in different countries now is that they are beginning to look at whether they can reduce the big lockdowns. They first
thing they have to check is, have we got defenses available in our communities so that when the virus returns, we can pick it up quickly and
respond rapidly as soon as it arrives? That's the secret.
And if they got those defenses in place, then they can start gradually lifting the lockdown because if new cases emerge, they can be promptly
identified, isolated, and outbreak suppressed.
This disease will go on being a threat to people for as long as we remain without a vaccine. And so the real important point is to get those defenses
in place and react fast.
GORANI: So as you observe the countries that have lifted restrictions, I mean, for instance, Wuhan is now allowing people to travel again. In
Europe, you have Austria, the Czech Republic, others that are slowly phasing back normal economic and transport practices again. Do you think
that those countries are doing the right thing or is it too soon?
NABARRO: Well, it depends on whether they've checked to see that they've got the capacity to be able to identify and isolate super fast. It is speed
that matters.
As soon as you get a case, you must respond. And they will get occasional outbreaks coming, which will lead them to have to do local level lockdowns,
but they're prepared to do that. That's part of what you have to be able to do to restart, is to be ready to shut down a location if you get another
outbreak.
That's what the Chinese are going to do. That's what the Singaporeans are doing. And to have that capacity to rapidly pivot and switch when you need
to in the light of information is just the right thing.
And, by the way, it does mean that Presidents and Prime Ministers will be changing their positions, and we as the public need to be respecting that,
because that is how we have to be able to work -- agile, quick, responsive.
GORANI: So in a webinar, you told business leaders that you believe sector by sector is the way to reopen the economy. Which sectors should come first
and why?
NABARRO: Every country has to define which of the sectors that are most important for the basic wellbeing of people? Also, which of the sectors are
in greatest distress where you've got perhaps people who are in the informal economy or on daily wages who have a key role to play.
The two things we've got to look out for, one is that the essential functions we need for life, like food, like energy, like water, keep going.
And at the same time, we have to recognize how painful these lockdowns are, what a sacrifice it is for so many people.
We've got reports coming in from all over the world of people going hungry, so it is a case of matching people's needs and the importance of sectors.
GORANI: You heard the U.S. President Donald Trump criticize the World Health Organization, he called it China-centric. He even threatened to
suspend funding to the World Health Organization. You're the envoy to the W.H.O. How do you react to those types of threats?
NABARRO: Most importantly, I would say that myself, the Director General of the World Health Organization, and all the staff are just working flat
out. They've got nothing else on their minds at all except trying to help the world and the world's people basically get on top of and ahead of this
virus.
But of course, there will be people who will find fault with what we do. I think we would like to ask them if they wouldn't mind to hold back on
direct criticisms right now. We're in the thick of a battle and 7.6 billion people are hurting, and why not let's just all focus, all Presidents, all
Prime Ministers, all leaders, focus on this epic struggle together for the sake of the people of the world.
Then when it is finished, and it will finish, we will get through this bad spell. You know, all of us will be accountable -- every single one. Me,
included.
And that is as it will be -- that is as it should be, but right where we're in the middle of the war, it is quite distracting when people are saying
we're not doing any good and so on and so forth, because we're doing our best.
[10:15:32]
NABARRO: We rely on countries that are members of the World Health Organization to give us all the information they can. That's how it has
been set up. There is a whole regulation system that has been established by all nations, we're following that to the letter.
GORANI: And last question on the antibody tests, because I've been told by many experts that this is really crucial and we heard also from Anthony
Fauci, in the United States that hopefully the tests will be validated soon.
How quickly can we expect those? Because it would tell us who was infected and therefore who is not -- who is immune and who can't infect others,
right? What kind of timeline can we hope for here?
NABARRO: There is a big point I want to say. At the moment, we do not know the extent to which the immunity that people get as a result of being
infected actually protects them against future infections. This is still unknown territory.
So second point, the antibody tests that are reliable for COVID-19 will become available before too long. There are many, many companies looking at
different options, testing them very carefully. Once they become available, they will help us understand where the virus is and where it has been. They
will be very important.
GORANI: All right, thank you so much, Dr. David Nabarro, the COVID-19 Special Envoy for the World Health Organization. We appreciate having you
on the program and informing us and all our viewers around the world about what we can expect going forward and how to reopen economies which is very
important.
Well, Britain's Prime Minister is probably the most high profile world leader, politician, to have been infected and certainly the only one in
intensive care who was admitted. He is now out of intensive care, thankfully, Boris Johnson was admitted to St. Thomas' hospital on Sunday
after suffering persistent COVID-19 symptoms. He was moved to the ICU when his condition worsened. Mr. Johnson remains in hospital, but his
spokesperson says he's in good spirits.
Meanwhile, a top official from Britain's National Health Service says the number of COVID-19 cases "plateaued." That's the term they're using. Nick
Paton Walsh is live at St. Thomas' Hospital.
So before we get to the statistics, let's talk about Boris Johnson. He is in a ward, not in ICU anymore, but it tells us how severe his condition
must have been for him to have been admitted for a few days to the ICU.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Certainly, more than news is good, it is important to remind everyone that his spokesperson said
he is "just at the beginning of his recovery." People who get this badly spend weeks often getting back fully on their feet.
And often I think get a worse case if they seem to apply themselves hard to their work during the time and initial phases when they have it. So doctors
behind me will be exceptionally cautious about his return to work.
We understand today that he has not been in touch with Number 10 Downing Street where his my deputy, Dominic Raab is still deputizing for him on all
fronts. It was the last phrase we heard, but when he was taken out of the Intensive Care Unit, he was apparently waving to nurses, so some sense of
his continued improvement here, but a definite feeling too that we are not going to suddenly see him on the steps of Number 10 in the imminent hours
ahead. Back to you.
GORANI: And what about the -- the statistics we were talking about? First of all, the N.H.S. official saying numbers have plateaued, so careful not
to say that the curve has flattened fully. What does that mean exactly?
PATON WALSH: Yes, it is complicated because you know, we have been hearing the phrase green chutes from U.K. officials for some time, suggesting they
see optimism in the numbers.
We saw the admission to intensive care seeming to go down in the past days and then go back up again. Top N.H.S. officials today saying that they
believe the number of new cases is plateauing, so essentially it is not continuing to rise day after day in terms of there are more new cases one
day after another.
It is sort of a stable level of new cases, which suggests things may be beginning to calm down. It is when you start seeing these exponential rises
that people get concerned.
The problem for the United Kingdom, Hala, is that there is not really any testing going on. It is very limited. It has been limited from the start.
It was initially not a key priority of the government since Boris -- just before Boris Johnson was admitted to hospital. He said it was very much
their priority, but it is a huge ask.
[10:20:06]
PATON WALSH: They even admit themselves to get to the 100,000 tests a day they wanted by the end of this month, and there are suggestions from some
of the recent modeling done which, I have to say is modeling, it relies on singular points of data which can affect change, massively skew the
results.
But the last time we heard from Imperial College who gave modelling that infamous U.S. policy as well, they seemed to suggest that only 2.5 percent
of the British population had had the disease so far -- that was about a week ago, which would leave the vast majority of Britain so far untouched
by this disease and have a very complicated task frankly if you don't know who those three percent have been or who still has it now, how would you
protect the vast remainder and get those vital to the economy back to work.
The question every nation is facing, but more acutely the U.K. because it doesn't really know who has had it or got it -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much, at St. Thomas' Hospital.
Still to come tonight, E.U. leaders try to come up with a bold response to address the economic damage that is caused by the pandemic. Across the
bloc, see their new half trillion bailout plan.
And nowhere has been hit quite like Italy. Now local officials are saying they think many COVID-19 deaths are not even being counted. We'll be right
back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: All right, welcome back and we start with European Finance Ministers praising the nearly half trillion -- or I should say more than
half a trillion dollar coronavirus economic rescue plan, $550 billion just about.
The President of the Euro Group says E.U. countries need to commit to use the funds for COVID-19-related costs. The plan will help subsidize wages to
save jobs. It is meant to allow companies to get easier access to loans and make cheap credit available to governments.
The question of how to finance the bloc's long-term recovery is something Finance Ministers still need to address obviously.
Now, to the health impact of all of this, and the number of COVID-19 deaths in Spain is nearing 16,000. But there is somewhat -- something of a silver
lining there in Spain as the number of people dying from the disease is slowing down rather significantly.
Spain's Health Ministry reported 605 deaths, Thursday, yesterday, and less than 500 new cases. That sounds like a lot, but it is the lowest rate of
increase since the outbreak began there.
CNN took a closer look at those figures and found two regions may have more deaths than what officials are reporting, however.
Now, Sweden has had since the beginning -- it has to be said a much more relaxed approach to the COVID-19 pandemic. But at least a hundred people
have died there, both in the past two days bringing the total to close to 800. The country has more than 9,000 confirmed cases.
[10:25:10]
GORANI: Now, Sweden as we mentioned, much more relaxed. It hasn't imposed a nationwide lockdown. Instead, bars and restaurants are still open to the
public. Officials there are just asking people to wash their hands and observe social distancing, and telling people over the age of 70 to stay
home.
Italy as we have been covering over the last several weeks has been hit extremely hard, certainly in Italy -- in Europe, the hardest hit country.
And the Prime Minister of Italy is expected to ask for an extension of the lockdown measures, opening the country in early May, three weeks later than
planned.
Italy has been under some form of lockdown since March 8th and the number of new infections and people in intensive care continues to increase
showing that the -- I should say continues to decrease, showing that the signs and the measures are working.
More than 140,000 people have been infected in Italy, and its death toll is higher than any country so far. But some local governments and families
think the official death count just over 18,000 is significantly lower than it should be.
CNN's Ben Wedeman spoke to local mayors and family members who have lost loved ones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This is the last photo of Forio Federici joking he was a prisoner in quarantine. He
died on the 27th of March from coronavirus.
"I brought groceries because he couldn't go out," recalls his daughter, Roberta. "I left it outside the door. He said goodbye from the window. That
was the last time I saw my father." On the same day her father died, Roberta's maternal uncle, Delio, died at home.
A veteran of the Carabinieri, the Italian Paramilitary Police, Delio had coronavirus symptoms, pneumonia and high fever, and because he was neither
hospitalized, nor tested, however, he wasn't included in the coronavirus death toll.
Another uncle, Mario, died the week before in a nursing home. Roberta believes the cause may have been coronavirus.
Nursing homes in Northern Italy last month saw a sudden spike in deaths.
Italy has suffered the world's highest death toll from the virus, but the actual number of COVID-19 deaths may be much, much higher.
Early on, mayors in Northern Italy, where the virus has hit hardest, sensed the data was amiss.
"From the beginning, we understood something was happening that wasn't reflected in the official data," says Claudio Cancelli, mayor of the small
town of Nembro.
The mayor of the nearby City of Bergamo, Giorgio Gori noted the same irregularities.
"I received the data and saw that the dead were many more than those who had been infected," he says. He contacted other mayors who confirmed his
suspicions that the number of deaths was much higher than the same period last year, although the vast majority of this year's deaths weren't
attributed to coronavirus.
Bergamo journalist, Isaia Invernizzi also investigated the anomaly, which was plain to see in the obituary pages of his newspaper, "Eco di Bergamo."
"Usually, we would publish one page of obituaries, maximum two," he tells me. But last month saw a sudden rise, with as many as 13 pages a day of
obituaries.
The coronavirus death toll Invernizzi and others concluded was at least twice what was being reported.
Health Ministry officials tell CNN the priority now is dealing with the crisis, but that eventually they hope to come up with a more accurate
reporting.
Roberta, who lost a father and two uncles, understands the authorities are overwhelmed.
"Here in Bergamo, it was like a tsunami," she says. Perhaps we're paying for the illusion of omnipotence. When we first heard about the disease, we
thought we would overcome it, that we were stronger, but it is a hard battle and it, coronavirus, is stronger than us.
[10:30:13]
WEDEMAN (voice over): And indeed, whatever the actual numbers, Italy is paying a very high price.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, still to come tonight after 76 days on lockdown, people are finally being allowed to leave Wuhan, China. We'll tell you how the city is
slowly emerging from the coronavirus crisis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. When Africa's rich and powerful need medical care, they often come to a western country. But this coronavirus pandemic is
changing all of that. It is forcing some of them to use some of the medical and healthcare systems that they have neglected for a long time.
Here is David McKenzie.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The late Robert Mugabe made frequent trips to Singapore for treatment. Cameroon's often absent
Paul Biya prefers doctors in Europe.
Muhammadu Buhari criticized medical travel as a newly-elected President, right before jetting off to U.K. hospitals for weeks of treatment. African
heads of state are top-tier medical tourists.
But in the time of COVID-19 lockdowns, while there's more pressure than ever for leaders to seek care at home, their citizens have no choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED KEAZOR, NIGERIAN HISTORIAN: The reality is this. You know, if you -- if you can't leave the country, you have to use what's here. So it's that
simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: He's in good shape now, working out their daily during the Lagos lockdown, but when he got cancer and then Crohn's disease, Ed Keazor says
he had no choice but to move to the U.K., where he's also a citizen, to get treatment he could afford, not an option in Nigeria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEAZOR: Well, the healthcare there, it is just not affordable. So the public healthcare facilities, I mean, come on.
MCKENZIE (on camera): What is your message to these leaders who have frequently gone overseas for treatment, who are now seeing the situation in
their own countries?
KEAZOR: As we do in Nigeria, if you -- rather than fix your road, we buy Jeeps. You know, we're all going to be affected by this. So I think it was
ever a wake-up call to the consequences of simply fiddling while Rome is burning. I think the present circumstances are the biggest wake-up call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE (voice over): The wake-up call is this. Nigeria is more ready than many for the pandemic. They stopped Ebola in 2014, gaining experience
in surveillance, testing, and isolation.
[10:35:00]
MCKENZIE (voice over): But overall, the vast majority of African countries, including in its most populous nation, have the lowest level of
health spending globally, according to the W.H.O. So those who can often leave to get treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DES PANTANOWITZ, VASCULAR SURGEON: There are a lot of countries in Africa where they do very basic medicine. So they do need to come here, or some go
to England and some go to America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE (voice over): In normal times, South African surgeon, Des Pantanowitz gets a steady stream of medical tourists, including Cabinet
members and government officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PANTANOWITZ: It is what it is. If they have to get the right treatment and so they have to go somewhere else.
MCKENZIE (on camera): Because it's not in their country.
PANTANOWITZ: Because it's not available.
KEAZOR: It's just that the investment is not there. And a lot of ministers who control the investment in public healthcare, suddenly --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE (voice-over): But Keazor hopes that the pandemic will show the elites and leaders what the rest of Africa already knows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEAZOR: If we felt we could sit down in our bubble, in our little comfortable bubble, and just go through life as people, no. This crisis has
showed us that you can't sit there in that bubble any more. You can't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: David McKenzie, CNN, Johannesburg.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, this crisis is going to change so many things, perhaps, medical tourism will be one of them. We're learning more and more all the
time about this vicious and wicked virus.
There was talk potentially about animals being able to catch the virus, and worry especially after you'll remember a few days ago, there were reports
that some tigers in the Bronx Zoo had tested positive.
The U.K. Veterinary Association is advising some pet owners to keep their cats indoors. They say cats have been shown to show clinical signs of the
virus, but so far dogs have not.
So cats from infected or self-isolating homes should stay inside if they can. But it is important to note there is no evidence that people can catch
the virus from animals. So no worry there, at least not that we know of.
The Junior Vice President of the British Veterinary Association, James Russell joins me now live with more.
So your advice on cats, we have a lot of cat owners on my social media. I see it a lot. People post pictures of their cats. They're great companions.
I have a dog when you're self-isolating. What is your advice?
JAMES RUSSELL, JUNIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF THE BRITISH VETERINARY ASSOCIATION: I think you're right to raise the concerns that people have had about the
reports of both the cats and also that tiger testing positive for coronavirus.
But our advice actually is about the much broader issue of those pets potentially acting as a surface on which the virus could live.
In just the same way that a door handle or a milk bottle may act as a carrier for that virus, we recognize the same risk in the coat of our pets.
So this is more about avoiding that surface contamination that may occur.
GORANI: Yes. Well, but -- cats in particular, much less the dogs obviously roam, they go house to house. My neighbor's cats spends a lot of time in my
kitchen even though she is not necessarily invited though we do like Rosy.
But it is a question then of not touching animals who are not from your household. I imagine that also applies to dogs then?
RUSSELL: Absolutely. Exactly the same principles apply. But you know, let's keep this in context. As long as we exercise that same general
hygiene that we're talking about when we have been to the shops or we picked up the mail from the post box, we're in exactly the same position
here with these animals.
So as long as you're washing your hands after you touch them, that we don't let them near our face, we're certainly not cuddling and kissing them, then
you know, we've reduced that risk to an absolute minimum.
GORANI: No cuddling and kissing. Oops, I'm in trouble. Potentially. But there is also the -- I mean, I don't know if you advise to wash your
animals more, certainly, my dog gets a bit of a more regular cleaning, you know, in the tub with shampoo and the rest of it, just kind of to be on the
safe side. Is this something you would advise?
RUSSELL: I think the overriding principle here has to be about animal welfare as well. So if you've got a dog, who is used to being bathed and
enjoys being bathed, there is absolutely no harm in that at all.
But I certainly wouldn't advocate suddenly going out and starting to bathe your cat on a regular basis because you know, it is very unlikely that
they're going to find that an enjoyable experience.
Humans, I think we can take responsibility to make sure we clean ourselves, but also I think it is really important when it comes to that issue of
keeping our cats in, if we're self-isolating or if we're infected with the virus, there will be cats, with whom that would be a major problem and can
actually result in stress related diseases if we change their habits to that extent.
So again, we just need to be careful in trying to protect the human population, we don't compromise animal welfare.
[10:40:08]
GORANI: Yes, that makes total sense. My general rule of thumb is if I can smell the dog from less than a meter away, or from more than a meter away,
I should say, that's when the dog usually gets a wash.
But is there any evidence that the virus can live on animal fur or is this just a precaution?
RUSSELL: The problem we have got at the moment is that exactly that, but that evidence doesn't exist. We know that it -- the evidence is out there
for it surviving on metal and plastic and other surfaces that we come into contact with frequently.
So, you know, we have to make an assumption from that that it is a risk. Just to say, if we keep ourselves clean, clean after we've touched our pets
and avoid touching other people's pets.
You know, we really should be minimizing that risk.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, James Russell of the British Veterinary Association. Thank you for joining us.
At last, some semblance of normal life is returning to China where this pandemic began. In the city of Wuhan, in particular of China, that was so
hard hit. Now, lockdown restrictions within the city of 11 million have been eased over the past couple of weeks. People have been stuck inside for
nearly three months.
On Wednesday, travel restrictions were lifted, allowing people to leave the city. It is a different story, though, in a small northeastern city near
the Russian border.
Chinese state media report that a field hospital is being built to tackle a spike in cases there.
David culver is in Shanghai with more. What part of China are we talking about and why are we seeing a spike there in particular?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, this is a far northeastern border and it is a town of about 70,000 people and it does border along with
Russia.
And it is interesting because Russia, shortly after the U.S. was one the countries that shut down their border with China. Now, the exception here
being Chinese nationals who needed to return from Russia, many of them doing business there, and had to go from Moscow, fly to a far eastern city,
about nine hours, then drive another two hours over the border, over one of the few land crossings that was still open to Chinese nationals.
And we were told that roughly about 250,000 of them made that trek and about 10 percent of those were among the infected. So the concern is this
idea of imported cases, and it is something that has been really top of mind for Chinese officials, because as they look to keep it under control
from the locally transmitted cases, these imported cases threaten this idea of a second wave.
And so what they have done is created a Wuhan-like strict lockdown within that city of 70,000, which is far smaller than what we saw in Wuhan, a city
of 11 million, larger than New York City, but still this one city is concerning in and of itself, and they have restricted people from leaving
their homes.
They can go on out once every three days, for just a few hours to do groceries. Only one person per family -- and then go back in. And it comes
the same week, really, just 24 hours after Wuhan eased up their restrictions.
But it is a lesson here of not falling into complacency and it is something that even Chinese officials have admitted is what they're trying to avoid
and the World Health Organization has stressed, don't think you've got this beat, because it could pop up in the hot spots like we are now seeing in
other parts of China -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes. Indeed. That's what, by the way, our W.H.O. guest was saying, that you have to be able to really shut things down quickly if the new
cases and new spikes take place.
Now, regarding livestock and animals that can be consumed, there are new rules, I understand, in China. New rules on livestock. What are they and
how will they -- how are they meant to prevent an outbreak like this one from happening again?
CULVER: Yes, so this is a hot topic and you've got to go back to the source of all of this and takes it back to the original epicenter, which
his Wuhan in a wet market there in particular, which CNN went to. We traveled back there in late January.
But it was believed there that the transmission happened from an animal, it could have been a bat, it could have been a pangolin. It could have been a
civet cat. We have heard all sorts of things from scientists and the transmission then ultimately to humans.
And what we have heard from the Chinese government is that they have drafted a list of livestock deemed that would be fit to consume, and so
what they've included on that list would be kind of the dietary staples. So you've got chickens, you've got cows, you've got pigs, sheep.
What they have not included on that list are those suspected wildlife creatures that may have been part of the original transmission. So those
civet cats, the pangolins, the bats in particular, also not on that list, Hala, dogs.
[10:45:05]
CULVER: And so if this gets approved, and it still has to go through some public feedback, by early May, they could have the final list that would
become the law here and banning consumption of these animals. It would be the first time that dogs would be prevented from being consumed here.
But ultimately, I think the focus is going to be on the bats, the civet cats, the pangolin in particular that could have caused this transmission.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, David Culver, live in Shanghai. Still to come, what was meant to be science fiction is now eerily close to
reality. How the global pandemic helped one novelist get his book published after 15 years after first being told it was too unrealistic. We'll be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, a dystopian thriller written in 2005 was initially rejected by publishers because it was too unrealistic. The topic was a global
pandemic. In fact, the book is called "Lockdown."
Flash forward 15 years, and that book is getting a second look. The novel by Peter May, paints a strikingly familiar picture. Similar to what is
going on now. Empty streets and landmarks around the world as a virus forces people to quarantine in their homes.
Screenwriter, novelist, and author of "Lockdown" Peter May joins me now live from France via Skype.
So I was telling our viewers, Peter May, your book was once rejected by publishers. They told you, this is too farfetched.
PETER MAY, AUTHOR, SCREENWRITER AND NOVELIST (via Skype): That's right. Yes. I wrote it in 2005 and the literary establishment in London deemed
that it was too dystopian and completely unrealistic that nobody would believe that a major western capital city could be completely locked down
by a virus.
And so it was rejected universally. In fact, I had forgotten all about it. It had lain in a drawer for 15 years.
GORANI: That is interesting because if I had ever written a book, I can assure you I would never forgotten that I had actually written a book. You
must write a lot. I know you do in fact. How did you get the idea for it? For this -- because it is from 2005.
MAY: That's right. Yes, scientific opinion at that point believed that the next major world epidemic would be -- or pandemic would be bird flu or
avian flu, H5N1. And I had done a lot of research for a previous book about the Spanish flu virus. And so I was quite up to date on all this.
But I read up about bird flu and it was terrifying. I mean, it was really terrifying. It is not as infectious as the coronavirus in that perhaps only
25 percent of the population would become infected. But its mortality rate is through the roof. I mean, it is 60 to 80 percent mortality rate.
So I looked to the pandemic preparedness plans of both the U.K. and the U.S. governments in the early 2000s and they had planned in detail for
something like this.
And so I was able to delve into that and see exactly how a city like London would look like if it was locked down so completely.
[10:50:29]
GORANI: Yes and how -- so the book was published, and it is available to purchase. Has it been successful? I mean, are you getting a lot of interest
for it and we're showing by the way, the cover of it, Peter May "Lockdown."
What response have you been getting?
MAY: Phenomenal response. I mean, the book is -- has only just appeared in e-book format in both sides of the Atlantic. It will come out in paperback
at the end of this month in the U.K. and I think mid-June in the U.S.
But the interest in it has been extraordinary, and I have had literally thousands of readers writing to me, saying either they're desperate to read
it or that they have read it, and the response to it is unusual in the sense that people strangely enough seem to take comfort in it.
Because it is something that is reflecting the reality that they're living through now as opposed to the old reality, what we used to live through,
that now seems kind of lost and alien to us. So it has had quite an extraordinary reaction.
GORANI: And how do the characters in the book then deal with the self- quarantine and how did you put yourself in the position of somebody going through a lockdown that seemed unimaginable 15 years ago, but that's our
daily reality now?
MAY: Well, the central characters, a police officer who is investigating believe it or not a murder in the midst of all this death from the virus, a
murder has been uncovered and he is investigating that.
So we're seeing the world through his eyes, London through his eyes, through a very concentrated 24-hour period where he's investigating this
murder and trying to track down the killer.
And so we discover what it is like for him and, you know, he also suffers a personal tragedy in the course of that 24 hours as a result of the virus,
and he teams up with a health expert who is in the process of trying to track down the virus and so we get a very clear picture of how the world
is, and how people are responding to it at that point.
GORANI: Great. Well, thanks very much, Peter May, the author of "Lockdown," screenwriter and author of many other books, joining us from
France. We appreciate having you on the program.
MAY: Thank you.
GORANI: We are going to take a quick break on CNN and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: All right, welcome back. Life under quarantine can feel sometimes like an odd mix between spending time at camp, or even prison. What is it
like if you are forced, in fact to self-isolate by a government?
Well, a CNN producer named Tara Mulholland was isolated in one of Hong Kong's quarantine centers, because someone she knew tested positive for
COVID-19. She wasn't symptomatic. And she filmed this on her phone.
[10:55:22]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TARA MULHOLLAND, CNN PRODUCER: I've just been told by the Hong Kong health authority that I'm being taken to government quarantine because one of my
friends has tested positive for coronavirus.
I've actually been self-isolating in my room since I found out that my friend was positive, which is why it is such a mess. There has been a bit
of a delay in getting people to quarantine centers because so many people in Hong Kong recently have tested positive.
So I've just been hanging out in my room, on my balcony, in Hong Kong, waiting to get picked up.
It did feel a little surreal to be taken through the street outside my apartment block by fully hazmat suited medical worker.
I've just been picked up by the bus to take me to the quarantine center.
When the health department bus arrived at the quarantine center, it felt like a cross between arriving at a school trip and a prison. But the
conditions actually turned out to be quite good.
This is my room in the quarantine center. Here is my desk and I should bring in some fruit. The bathroom is very well-appointed. So it is not too
bad.
In the camp, we're allowed outside while wearing face masks and we can even socialize with each other as long as we stay a healthy distance apart.
There we go. A healthy 36.8.
This is a sample pop from my coronavirus test. I need to spit into this tomorrow morning before I have eaten or drunk anything and they'll take it
away, test it and make sure that I'm definitely not positive.
In some ways, life in quarantine is quite strange. I get my meals delivered to me by healthcare workers. I have to take my temperature twice a day, and
obviously, I can't leave.
But in some ways it is not that different to what life in Hong Kong is like at the moment. I've been working from home for about three months, and
pretty much everyone is practice something form of social distancing at the moment.
So talking to my friends on video calls is just what happens now. But I am looking forward to getting out, seeing my friends again and celebrating my
birthday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, I sure hope you get out soon, Tara. And happy birthday in a few days.
Thank you for watching. It is Good Friday. If you do celebrate, I hope you have a great Easter weekend under very unusual circumstances. I'll see you
next time. Thanks for watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
