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Top U.S. Vaccine Doctor Ousted by Politics; White House Sends Mixed Messages to the Public; When Did Coronavirus Spread Really Begin in United States?; Minority U.K. Health Care Workers Face Greater Risks of COVID-19; U.S. Unemployment Claims Last Week Numbered 4.4 Million; Wuhan after Lockdown Ends; Germany Opens First Torture Trial of Former Syrian Officers; Muslims Observe Ramadan under COVID-19; U.K. Businesses Come Together to Feed Health Workers. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 23, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNNI HOST (voice-over): Welcome, everybody. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hala Gorani.
First, Donald Trump says open America for business. Then when states do just that, he says it is too soon. The latest incredibly confusing
messaging from the White House.
Then the European Union is trying to chart a financial course through the COVID crisis.
Can any of the countries agree on a strategy?
And later, CNN is back on the ground in Wuhan, where the pandemic started.
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GORANI: We begin with the startling accusation from the man who was charged with leading the effort to find a vaccine for COVID-19. Dr. Rick
Bright says his ouster from the vaccine agency was politically motivated after he pushed back against the drug president Donald Trump has repeatedly
touted to treat COVID-19.
As Joe Johns tells us, this appears to be yet another example of an administration and its leader pushing aside science during a pandemic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While scientists race to find a coronavirus vaccine, one of the nation's top
experts says he was abruptly ousted from his position overseeing its development.
Dr. Rick Bright led BARDA, a biomedical research subdivision of the Department of Health and Human Services and was reassigned to a narrower
position at the National Institutes of Health Tuesday.
The reason, Bright says in a statement, was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to
address the COVID-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific
merit, adding, to combat this deadly virus, science, not politics or cronyism, has to lead the way.
Bright also claimed his opposition to broad use of hydroxychloroquine contributed to his demotion. The drug, typically used to treat malaria,
lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, has been heavily promoted by President Trump as a possible coronavirus treatment, despite little evidence that it
helps at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The guy says he was pushed out of a job, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. I don't know who he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: This major shake-up as President Trump makes the current public health crisis political, dismissing the science from researchers. Trump had
the CDC director try to clarify his warning of possible difficulties caused if a second coronavirus wave hits during flu season.
DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: I think it is really important to emphasize what I didn't say. I didn't say that
this was going to be worse. I said it was going to be more -- or more difficult and potentially complicated because we'll have flu and
coronavirus circulating at the same time.
JOHNS: Even after Dr. Robert Redfield reiterated that he expects the virus later this year, the president made this bold prediction about the
disease's potential resurgence.
TRUMP: If it comes back, though, it won't be coming back in the form that it was. It will be coming back in smaller doses that we can contain.
JOHNS: But experts leading efforts against the coronavirus are less optimistic.
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: I think we are assured that the CDC is putting in place today what we are going to
need in the fall so that we can stay in containment if potentially the virus comes back.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We will have coronavirus in the fall, I am convinced of that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And that was Joe Johns reporting. Let's bring in White House correspondent Stephen Collinson and talk about this dismissal of Dr. Robert
Bright (sic) who was the head of that agency designed to manufacture and devise vaccines.
He says it is motivated by his opposition to this drug that the president keeps talking about, hydroxychloroquine.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. On the face of it, it seems yet another example of the White House and the
president particularly discounting science when it contradicts their preferred political narrative.
We saw it with climate change; we have seen it with environmental policies throughout the administration.
[10:05:00]
COLLINSON: And it has been exacerbated in this crisis, just those clips you showed there of the president rather extraordinarily undermining his
own public health officials during a White House briefing on the question, for example, of whether the virus will come back in the fall and be a lot
worse.
I think this is symptomatic of how the president is trying to shape the facts of the pandemic to meet his political requirements with the knowledge
that he's facing re-election the end of the year. It is not the size of the virus, it is also bound up in the whole question of how quickly states
should open their economies.
GORANI: There are confusing messages -- we're going to get live to Atlanta this hour -- about what the president, what level of reopening and timeline
for reopening states he supports because first, he says, open America for business, then it appears as though his Coronavirus Task Force convinced
him that was the wrong stance.
So after having supported the idea that Georgia should reopen some of the nonessential businesses across the state, he's now saying it is too soon.
It is really confusing.
COLLINSON: It is going to do nothing to give the public the confidence we needed to get the economy going again. The president has spent weeks
pushing for states to reopen. You have a clutch of Southern states, Republican states, that have apparently tried to please the president by
pushing ahead, even if the White House guidelines say when it is a good time to reopen.
We understand on the question of Georgia, on nail salons and hair salons opening up, the president was convinced yesterday by his public health
authorities to go against that, even though he had previously told the governor he supported it.
What the president has done, he's put himself in a political position whereby he can tell governors they have got to go quickly to open the
economy because that's what a lot of people want and then criticize them when they go too fast.
It is potentially a tenable political position for a president who doesn't really want to take responsibility but for a country trying to get out of a
pandemic, it is confusing and chaotic and it sends all kinds of mixed messages, which probably will make the situation worse.
GORANI: Stephen Collinson, thank you very much.
We were talking about this with Stephen during Wednesday's coronavirus news briefing. President Trump criticized the Georgia governor's decision to
start opening certain nonessential businesses. Before we go to Atlanta, I want you to listen to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I told the governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, that I disagree, strongly, with his decision to open certain facilities, which are in
violation of the phase 1 guidelines for the incredible people of Georgia. It is just too soon. I think it is too soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Those comments came on the same day that the president tweeted initially, "States are safely coming back, our country is starting to open
for business again."
Victor Blackwell joins me now live from Atlanta.
What is the reaction on the ground to these mixed messages, Victor?
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it is the confusion. I think the word that Stephen Collinson used, chaotic, is accurate. Consider the timeline
what our White House team has learned that, on Tuesday night, President Trump and vice president Pence, they both called the governor of Georgia,
Brian Kemp, to offer support and praise for his plan to reopen some businesses or allow them to reopen on Friday.
And then by Wednesday evening this 180 dramatic reversal offering that strong disagreement that you heard. The question is why.
There was Wednesday afternoon that the scientists who are advising President Trump, they told him that they could not publicly defend the plan
to open these businesses in Georgia, considering that one week ago they offered the guidelines for states to reopen. And Georgia was not meeting
any of the benchmarks to start phase 1.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, who we learned a lot about over the last couple of weeks, said, quote, "I cannot defend this publicly."
Dr. Birx was then urged to convince the president to change his mind; ultimately, he offered that disagreement. We heard from the Georgia
governor through a statement on Twitter that he's going to move forward with this plan to allow hair dressers and barbershops and nail salons and
gyms and bowling alleys to open tomorrow.
Monday, movie theaters and restaurants will offer dine in services.
But how long will this line from the president last, considering the inconsistency over opening of the last week and as you pointed out, this is
not only dangerous, it could cost lives with this inconsistency of message from the White House.
GORANI: And the question, too, is -- and I'm sure this will apply to other countries around the world, if businesses are allowed to reopen and
employees believe it is too risky for them to go back to work -- for instance, a tattoo artist, who says I just don't think it is safe for me to
be in close proximity with people during the pandemic.
[10:10:00]
GORANI: What about them?
What kind of -- do they have any rights?
BLACKWELL: There are lots of business owners that are saying in Georgia, although the governor is giving us the opportunity to open, we will not
open because we don't believe it is safe.
They're following some of the guidelines coming from the White House, also the models that the White House is relying on.
There was the latest model that came out that said Georgia should wait until the second week of June to reopen these businesses.
But some will open tomorrow here in the state, we have seen protests across the country as it comes to those rights.
The question is will people be willing to give up those jobs or stay at home, considering that they just do not feel safe?
GORANI: Thank you, Victor Blackwell, in Atlanta.
Let's take a global look now at the U.S. coronavirus response. I want to bring in the U.S. State Department spokeswoman, Morgan Ortagus via Skype
from Washington.
Thank you for being with us. Internationally, there has been some question about the president's decision to defund the World Health Organization.
There is the perception that the president is not a big fan of international organizations and transnational strategies to combat this.
What is your response to that?
MORGAN ORTAGUS, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Well, Hala, thank you for giving me a chance to explain what we're doing and I've been watching you
for years, your coverage in the Middle East has always been exceptional, so it is great to be on with you today.
There is a lot I want to clear up about the WHO. What the president announced is a pause in funding for the next 60 to 90 days, while an
assessment is done in the United States. So we gave up between $400 million and $500 million to the WHO last year. That is only 4 percent, that money
is 4 percent of all of the money that we give in global health each year.
So 96 percent of the funds that the American people give around the world for global health is still going unimpeded. Now that is -- that $500
million would stay in USAID. We're looking to directly fund global health programs around the world.
So the WHO does great work. In the past, we have been major funders of the WHO for decades, where we give around $500 million last year, China, for
example, gave a fraction of that. They gave about $40 million.
So every penny of global health funding that the Congress has allotted to us at the State Department will continue to go to global health. It may go
directly to an NGO working on polio in Africa. But that money is still going there, while we pause and have this 60 to 90 day review.
GORANI: And now many U.S. citizens around the world, green card holders, people with valid U.S. visas watch CNN International, of course. And they
have so many questions about what this closure, this suspension of immigration into the United States means for them.
Can you shed light on that?
What does it mean for people for instance who have a green card?
Can they come to the United States when some of the restrictions are lifted on travel?
ORTAGUS: Great question. Yes, American citizens, green cardholders will always be able to come home to the United States. In fact, even after we
have the travel ban in China, in Europe, Americans have still been able to go home.
And in fact the State Department has been on a massive, unprecedented and historic effort to repatriate and evacuate American citizens around the
world.
Just today we're at over 65,000 Americans from over 100 countries, where airports were closed, the country's borders were closed and we had to
repatriate them. That effort continues and Americans will always be able to get here home.
And we believe in the mantra of leaving no American behind. That's why we have been evacuating and repatriating over 65,000 Americans since the end
of January.
GORANI: And for visa holders and people who may be watching us, especially this hour, we have a lot of viewers in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, who
have valid U.S. visas.
Are they -- what's the situation like for them?
ORTAGUS: So ultimately the Department of Homeland Security is the arbiter of that. I encourage them to go to DHS website. We know we can guarantee
that Americans and green card holders will get in.
Unfortunately at most of our embassies around the world we had to postpone routine visa servicing. We still have emergency visas taking place. But
many of our American diplomats remain in very tough environments. They have been working to get other Americans out.
And so those visa services at the moment are on hold. What we're looking for is to help lead the world out of this terrible pandemic and to get to
the point where we're helping lead the world economically and scientifically out of this virus.
[10:15:00]
GORANI: Let me ask you about a report that came out a few days ago that the U.S. embassy in China two years ago, two years before the pandemic,
sent a cable to Washington, D.C., expressing concern over a lab in Wuhan that was doing some coronavirus testing and testing transmission of the
virus between bats and humans.
These cables were sent, according to "The Washington Post," warning about a possible pandemic.
Can you confirm that these cables were sent from China to the U.S. two years ago?
ORTAGUS: So we don't ever comment on any sort of reportedly leaked classified information at the State Department. Here is what I will say,
what Secretary Pompeo has been calling on. We have been calling for full transparency out of China.
We know that the Chinese Communist Party has told the world that this virus emanated from a wet market. We don't have proof of that. That may in fact
be true . But what the United States is calling on is for openness and transparency, how the most fundamental question that the world can answer,
not just the United States, how do we ever prevent a pandemic of this scale from happening again?
And we know we can't answer that --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Morgan, sorry to jump in. These cables would have been not classified -- they were not classified apparently. They were sensitive. And
these were American diplomats and scientists warning Washington.
So apparently that knowledge existed at the time, according to this report, that there was a risk. So without commenting on classified information, was
there an awareness a couple of years ago that this was a potential pandemic risk coming from China, in the United States, at the State Department?
ORTAGUS: Again, you're referring to internal U.S. government documents. So I can't comment on those specifically.
What I can say is we would love for investigators, doesn't have to be Americans but would be great if it were, we would love for investigators
from around the world to get into these labs to find out what truly happened and that's the kind of truth that we're hoping to get to.
GORANI: All right, Morgan Ortagus, State Department spokeswoman, thank you very much for joining us from Washington. We really appreciate your time
today.
And we are going to talk now about the European response. We have spent some time in the United States. And a big question facing not just Europe
but the world, is the financial future of all of these countries affected by the pandemic. Essentially we turned the switch off on all of these
economies. There is not much activity going on.
The E.U. Council president is taking part in a meeting virtually. And there is the E.U. Council president logging on, he and other leaders are trying
to overcome bitter disagreements on how to finance a recovery fund of $1 trillion.
Not seeing them logging on.
Did I miss that?
Anna Stewart joins me now in London.
So there is going to be among 20-some countries, you know, 27 countries, a disagreement on which way to go forward.
Do you go the conservative approach or do you really just open the floodgates, budgetary floodgates, and try to weather this economic storm?
Which kind of approach is winning out?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think what we'll see today is some agreement that trillions of euros are needed in a recovery front. The E.U.
is looking at a really sharp downturn, huge levels of borrowing.
For those countries, particularly in Southern Europe, you had high levels of debt already, so Italy, Portugal, Greece, they can see debt to GDP
levels of 130 percent. Could be really unsustainable.
What started as an economic crisis from a pandemic could very quickly turn into another sovereign debt crisis if the E.U. doesn't act. There will be
agreement that they need trillions of euros. But as you said, how to finance it.
There is still huge disagreement there. It has really opened up old wounds from the financial crisis. Southern Europe and France want mutualized debt
to pay for this. Germany and the more frugal north don't want to be underwriting the debts of countries they see as financially less prudent.
The ECB is providing a decent backstop to all of this and they are -- they have a huge asset purchase program in place. A success today, Hala, from
the economist I spoke to is language about solidarity, about cohesion, damping down the political discord. In terms of real agreement and details,
we are not likely to see that today.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much, Anna Stewart.
Still to come, more talk about the economy and Americans are losing their jobs by the millions. And there is no telling when the bleeding will stop,
we'll have more on the record numbers, millions more people file for unemployment. We will be right back.
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[10:20:00]
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GORANI: Well, human trials for COVID-19 vaccine are underway. Here in the United Kingdom, researchers at Oxford University kicked off their trials
today, aiming for 1 million doses by September.
Britain's chief medical officers warns unless a highly effective vaccine can be secured, the U.K. may have to keep up social distancing measures for
the next year. So we should get ready for that potentially.
And I want to take a moment to pay tribute to some of the health care workers here in this country and the United Kingdom who have died while
trying to save others infected with this terrible virus. Here is a few of them.
Dr. Manjit Singh Riyat (ph) was a widely respected accident and emergency consultant in Derby.
Dr. Abdul Mabud Chowdhury (ph) is the doctor who warned prime minister Boris Johnson about the shortage of protective equipment for medical
workers.
Dr. Enjed Alhorani (ph) is the first doctor in England to die from COVID- 19, he was an ear nose and throat specialist.
Dr. Abdel al-Tayar (ph) was a transplant surgeon in London. He and Dr. Alhorani (ph) were originally from Sudan.
You may have noticed something here. These doctors all come from ethnic minority groups in the United Kingdom. The British Medical Association says
minority health care workers are dying at an alarmingly disproportionate rate in Britain. The British Medical Association chair Dr. Chaand Nagpaul
joins me live from London.
Thank you for being with us. What is of the first 17 doctors who have died, only one is not from an ethnic minority group in Britain.
Why is that?
DR. CHAAND NAGPAUL, BRITISH MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Well, you see, these figures are so staggering, they're disturbing, they're worrying and these
doctors have come from other parts of the world to provide vital care and save other people's lives in our health service.
And now they have sadly paid the ultimate sacrifice. I called for this inquiry because these figures just are not explainable on the basis of any
sort of variation. And so we don't understand why and that's why we need this investigation. There are some possible reasons, we want the government
to look into.
Is it that these doctors have been more exposed to the virus?
Is it that there have been other aspects of health that have affected or do affect our ethnic minority doctors more, such as diabetes, high blood
pressure and coronary heart disease?
And there is the whole issue about personal protection. And there are worldwide shortages of personal protective equipment. We know doctors in
the U.K., we did a big survey, the British Medical Association, showing that about half of doctors feel under pressure to see patients without the
full protection they need.
[10:25:00]
NAGPAUL: And only about 12 percent of doctors say they have adequate protection. We now have broken that down into looking at the ethnicity of
doctors and about three times as many doctors from ethnic backgrounds say they feel pressured to see patients without the right protection.
And only about half of them feel adequately protected compared to their white counterparts. So that could play a part as well. It could be nature
of the jobs they're doing, whether they're doing more front facing work, exposed to the virus.
GORANI: And another statistic is 75 percent of all health care workers in the U.K. who have died from COVID are ethnic minorities.
Why would an ethnic minority doctor feel more pressured to see a patient even if they feel uncomfortable because they don't have the right
protective equipment?
Why?
NAGPAUL: Yes, this has been an issue for a while, well before COVID. Our own service has shown that ethnic minority doctors are about twice as
likely to not feel confident to raise concerns. They sometimes feel, they're worried that they're often blamed for systemic failings instead of
being the one speaking out.
This has been a cultural issue we've tried to address. There have been episodes of bullying and harassment, at higher prevalence in some of our
ethnic minority doctors. Something the U.K. we brought up, we're trying to address.
And it could be that some of this plays a part. But if we knew all the answers, we wouldn't be calling for the investigation. So we want the
investigation to actually measure those sorts of things.
GORANI: Can I ask you, I spoke to one doctor in a COVID ward who deals only with COVID patients and has done for several weeks and says he has not
been tested.
Now my question is why not?
Because it is not just for his sake but it is for all of our sakes, because when he's done with his shift, even though he goes to a hotel and showers,
he walks the -- he's out and about.
Why are doctors who are specifically assigned to COVID wards not all getting tested at this stage?
NAGPAUL: That's a question that I would ask the government because I agree with you that the -- this is a virus that is highly contagious. And
secondly, we know that it can be asymptomatic in people and also if a doctor was to become infected. That's the important part.
You're absolutely right. Personal protective equipment isn't just about protecting the doctor, it is about protecting the doctor getting infected
and infecting others in a hospital setting.
I agree with you that it may be due to limitations of testing. We are not testing nearly as many people as we would like to or I would like to, of
the government to be testing. So we're nowhere near some of other nations like Germany and the eastern countries which show the value of widespread
testing.
So we're not testing widely in the U.K. And I agree with you, I agree with your suggestion that healthcare workers should be tested to protect
themselves and other patients.
GORANI: Quick last one for you, how has this been for you personally?
You're the -- lead the British Medical Association, this is a historic once in a several generation healthcare crisis.
What are your days like?
NAGPAUL: It is -- these are full on days, the doctors have never been busier. I think they are heroic in going out and working to look after our
nation at, you know, remember, these are doctors who are -- who were never trained to be working in an environment where they see so much ill health,
deaths.
We have doctors caring for their own colleagues on ventilators. And we got junior doctors looking after their more senior doctors in hospital and
seeing some of them die. This is taking it a real toll. About 50 percent of doctors are suffering severe anxiety, stress, in this situation. That's
what our survey showed. That's not surprising.
But in spite of that, we do our best. I think the term certainly the most important issues for us is that if we are to do our jobs, at least protect
us with the equipment we need. And in particular, also coming back to the minority population of healthcare workers, we must protect them.
And some of the ideas we have, with the important things that the government should be doing, is perhaps shielding or protecting some of
those at-risk doctors from front facing COVID work. So there is plenty of other work the NHS has to provide other care to a lot of other patients.
[10:30:00]
GORANI: Dr. Chaand Nagpaul, thank you very much for joining us on CNN.
Months after the virus emerged in Wuhan, China, its precise origin remains a mystery. CNN returns to Wuhan next.
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GORANI: Well, it is Thursday, so, of course, we're getting jobless numbers and there have been more massive losses this week once again, 4.4 million
Americans filed new unemployment claims in the past week. This in total then wipes out all the jobs gained in the past decade since the Great
Recession.
Julia Chatterley joins me now live from New York to break down these numbers.
What now -- what are -- what is the total figure here for five weeks?
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: It's 26.4 million Americans, Hala, lives, families thrown into chaos as a result of the fight against COVID-19.
You said it, we have more than wiped out all the job gains over the last 10 years since the financial crisis. What we're looking at here is one in six
American workers either having lost their jobs, been furloughed or simply just afraid for what the future looks like at this moment.
They're now asking the question, first and foremost, when does the money come; two, how long does this go on for; and, three, when I get back into
my job, am I going to be safe doing it?
And most of those questions at this stage we can't answer. And I think one of the strongest statistics I can give you for the U.S. economy is, if you
go back just five weeks and when some were saying that this economy was in a fairly steady strong place, 40 percent of American households couldn't
write a $500 check in an emergency situation.
We're now five weeks on from that, when bills are going out, rent has been paid, utilities have been paid. And for these people, in many cases, money
hasn't been coming through the door.
So this is catastrophic in terms of numbers. It is also catastrophic for many people facing this situation. And, of course, we're doing it
deliberately to fight the virus.
GORANI: Yes. And I believe it is a third of Americans haven't paid their rent in the last month. Presumably as you mentioned, some people can't
afford it if they don't have -- if they don't have a salary.
How many of these jobs won't come back right away when the lockdowns are lifted?
[10:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: This is the critical question. I spoke to Jason Fuhrman (ph), one of the key economic advisers to President Obama and he said to me,
look, I think 50 percent of these have just been furloughed. They could come back really quickly as the economy gets restarted.
But he also said it could take five years to get the remaining people back on board and simply just to get us back where we started. It is going to
depend on all sorts of things, how much damage is brought to the interim, how long this goes on, how many people you can bring back to work and how
consumers behave when we get there.
Too many unknowns at this stage but the bottom line is it could take a long while.
GORANI: Right. Julia, thank you very much, joining us from New York.
The mayor of Las Vegas, speaking of opening up for business and lifting the lockdown, the mayor of Las Vegas is pushing for America's gambling capital
to reopen. But she's leaving social distancing up to business owners to figure it out. She talked about how she believes things should reopen with
Anderson Cooper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR CAROLYN GOODMAN (I- LAS VEGAS, NV): I want everything back. We never closed down the United States. We never closed down Nevada. We never closed
down Las Vegas because that's our job. Entertainment capital of the world, where everything is clean.
We would never have gotten to the point we are now as a center for entertainment, conventions and sports and everything else, so positive.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You're talking about encouraging hundreds of thousands of people to come to Las Vegas. I get the financial losses people
are suffering, which is awful.
But you're encouraging hundreds of thousands of people coming there in casinos, smoking, drinking, touching slot machines, breathing circulated
air and then returning home to states around America and countries around the world.
Doesn't that sound like a virus Petri dish?
How is that --
(CROSSTALK)
GOODMAN: No, what it sounds like, you're being an alarmist. I'm not. I've lived a long life. I grew up in the heart of Manhattan. I know what it is
like to be with subways and on buses and on elevators.
COOPER: I'm being alarmist?
GOODMAN: I think you are by saying what you just said.
COOPER: So you don't believe there should be any social distancing?
You don't believe --
GOODMAN: Of course I believe there should be. Of course. I'm a rational --
COOPER: How do you do that in a casino?
GOODMAN: That's up to them to figure out. I don't own a casino. I don't know anything about building a casino.
COOPER: Wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm sorry. You're the mayor of Las Vegas.
GOODMAN: Yes.
COOPER: You want casinos to be open, even though you have no authority over casinos but you say open them up but you have no responsibility about
how that would be done --
GOODMAN: No, no, you're blurring --
COOPER: You said it is not your job.
GOODMAN: I am not a private owner of a hotel, I wish I were. And I would have the cleanest hotel with six feet figured out for every human being
that comes in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's the mayor of Las Vegas. The governor of the state where Las Vegas is located, Nevada, says the state is in fact not ready to reopen. He
spoke to Anderson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. STEVE SISOLAK (D-NV): It's important that we protect the health and the future and the well- being of our citizens. We can rebuild our economy:
we will rebuild our economy. Las Vegas will continue to thrive. But I can't do that if I lose more people. We need to protect their health and their
well-being. There will come
a time to open Las Vegas in a phased-in approach, and I urge everyone -- Nevada has been incredible. The vast majority of citizens are wearing face
coverings, they're practicing social distancing, they're doing everything they can.
We need to send a sincere message, you know, and a consistent message, and it's difficult when we get one person that's kind of leading people astray,
and I'm disappointed in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: We'll get back to the United States a little later in the program.
You'll remember a Wisconsin primary went ahead even though the Democratic governor thought it was a bad idea. We'll tell you about what happened in
the aftermath of that.
Back to China now, months since the virus was first detected, its exact origins remain somewhat of a mystery. We do know that the pandemic started
in Wuhan in China. David Culver returned to Wuhan and sent us this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You can just look at the street behind me here in Wuhan, China and you can tell that traffic is
coming back onto the roadways, you can tell life is starting to resume. Albeit amidst a cautious optimistic.
A lot of the folks there hesitant that this virus is gone for good. In fact, many of them believe there could be a second wave.
CNN back at the original epicenter of the novel coronavirus outbreak, Wuhan, China and it's more than 11 million residents navigating this post-
lockdown uncertainty. Among them, American Christopher Suzanne.
[10:40:00]
CULVER: Let's switch out masks.
What is your preference here?
What's your preference here?
He suggested we upgrade our protective equipment before going for a stroll. It's a city he knows well.
CHRISTOPHER SUZANNE, WUHAN RESIDENT: So, this place is, you know, I was married here, I had a baby here. I've been here for the past 10 years.
CULVER: This is home.
SUZANNE: Yes, this is home.
CULVER: Christopher's home is slowly emerging from a brutal 76-day lockdown. He returned to Wuhan in the midst of it.
SUZANNE: I'm really happy to see like people, at least, you know, keeping their distance, getting around going about their day.
CULVER: But just two weeks after the reopening and some here are closing the gap on social distancing. Many stores and restaurants keeping people
from coming inside, but that's not stopping crowds, like this one from standing shoulder to shoulder waiting outside for their orders.
In places like our hotel, there are noticeably stricter measures. Staffs spraying us down each time we walk in and checking our temperatures inside,
even the elevators telling you where to stand. And offering you a tissue to touch the buttons. But will it last?
Like we are afraid that there is going to be the second wave, I think everybody here knows.
CULVER: You think it's coming?
SUZANNE: Absolutely.
CULVER: Yet, there is growing skepticism over where the first wave actually originated.
So, this is where Chinese health officials believe the source of the novel coronavirus is. This is the Hunan seafood market, of course, they believe
other things have been sold here, hence, the transmission from animals to humans of this virus.
But you can see it's all closed off still. This has now been since January 1 that they shut it down.
However, I want to take you now to the lab where U.S. intelligence is looking into the possible origins of this virus having come from there.
We drove to the lab inside China Centers for Disease Control, just down the street from the market.
This is one of the labs within Wuhan, not too far from the market either. It's an origin theory Chinese official quickly dismissed. They also pushed
back at claims that their reported number of cases and deaths is far less than reality, even as numbers have repeatedly been revised upward to
account for previous undercounts.
Just last week, another 50 percent was added to the Wuhan death toll alone.
SUZANNE: You know, whether or not they want to share that information with the public, it doesn't really concern me. I'm really more concerned about
my family and what we can do.
CULVER: Others, like this convenience shop owner more worried about resurrecting their businesses.
"I'm a bit worried, I don't know when we will resume completely."
As China claims to get the virus under better control, in places like Wuhan, there is now greater concern of those coming in from elsewhere. From
our arrival in the city to this interview out in the street, we were questioned repeatedly.
SUZANNE: I'm from -- I'm from the U.S., but I live in Beijing.
CULVER: A group of plain clothed police grew increasingly uneasy with our being there, a reflection of both their fear of imported cases and a
mounting distrust of foreign media.
SUZANNE: Yes. We'll walk in the car.
CULVER: Yes.
SUZANNE: We'll go.
CULVER: It is interesting to note that as you walk around Wuhan, you begin to assess different levels of complacency. You have some folks who seem to
be very comfortable just wearing the mask, which is part of the law, it's mandatory and will often go into crowds and be shoulder to shoulder with
others.
And then you have those who are still wearing protective gear, from head to toe, they are not in the medical profession. They simply do not trust that
this virus is gone for good. And hence, they want to protect themselves in as many ways as possible and that means sometimes wearing as much
protective garb as possible.
And for them, it's about protecting not only themselves, but also those they could come to contact with -- David Culver, CNN, Wuhan, China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: We'll get back to coronavirus in a moment. I want to bring you this story, because it is an unprecedented trial taking place in Germany
today.
For first time, two former Syrian intelligence officers are being tried on charges of crimes against humanity, including torture and, in some cases,
deaths of prisoners under Bashar al Assad's government. The men had defected and were living in Germany for years when they were arrested.
Joining me is CNN's Jomana Karadsheh, she's covering this story. Talk to us about the trial, the significance of it as well.
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these are two former members of the Syrian regime's intelligence service. One is a lower level member, the
other, the focus here is on him. He's a former colonel, he was -- he defected from the Syrian regime back in 2012 and after that he fled to
Germany. He was arrested in Berlin last year.
[10:45:00]
KARADSHEH: Before that, between 2011 and 2012, he was in charge of the investigations unit in one of the most notorious detention facilities in
Damascus, known as Branch 251 Khatib Prison.
In the time when he was in charge, he's accused by prosecutors in Germany during this crimes against humanity trial that he is standing right now of
overseeing the torture of about 4,000 Syrian prisoners who were in that facility during that time of overseeing it and in some cases accused of
taking part in torture.
The other man is accused of being complicit in these crimes against humanity. As you mentioned, they're facing these accusations of torture and
facing 58 counts of murder in the case of the colonel because these detainees died under torture in that facility, also facing accusations of
rape and sexual assault.
What is remarkable about this is that it is taking place in a small city in Germany because this is what victims of the Syrian regime, legal groups,
investigators, this is what they're doing right now.
They're turning to courts in France and in Germany under the principle known as universal jurisdiction, where these national courts can try
international crimes even though they were not committed on their soil. They do not involve any of their nationals and they're doing this because
they are unable to have any sort of an international tribunal.
The International Criminal Court to hold members of the Syrian regime accountable is pretty much impossible at this point because of the support
the Syrian regime has from Russia.
So anything going through the Security Council will be vetoed as we have seen over the years. So this is seen as a landmark trial. It is seen as a
huge victory for victims of the Syrian regime and for investigators, for witnesses, people who have risked their lives over the years to collect
evidence and to speak out against the Syrian regime.
One witness that we spoke to today said that this is like a dream come true. He wasn't able to be in the court today because he can't travel to
Germany because of the coronavirus situation. But he hopes to testify soon.
And they say that, you know, it is coming at a time when people had lost hope, that this will ever happen.
GORANI: OK. Jomana Karadsheh, thank you for that update.
Still to come, Ramadan but this year it is happening under lockdown. How Muslims worldwide are adjusting their plans for the holy month. We will be
right back with that story.
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[10:50:00]
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GORANI: Welcome back.
Fasting, forgiveness and prayer, the defining facets of Ramadan for those who observe Ramadan. It is paired this year with face masks and plastic
gloves.
At this Palestinian market, for instance, and disinfectant, as you see here at a Pakistani mosque. Pakistan being one of the few countries in the
Muslim world to keep mosques open, despite the coronavirus pandemic.
Like so much of life, observances for Ramadan around the world will go on, even if that means, well, lines at grocery stores in Yemen.
[10:55:00]
GORANI: In Saudi Arabia, one of the main staples of the month, dates, are on display. Sales are suffering this year because of curfews.
Meanwhile, Indonesia is beefing up security to enforce a ban on people traveling home for the Eid holiday at the end of Ramadan. Indonesians have
largely ignored the travel restrictions.
And here in the U.K., the seaside town of Brighton is coming together to feed health workers risking their lives on the COVID-19 front lines. There
is always, in the midst of crisis, the better side of humanity that emerges. And we like to shine a light on that as well. Anna Stewart has
that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here we are at La Choza (ph) just getting ready to send out 60 meals to (INAUDIBLE) hospital.
STEWART (voice-over): La Choza is one of many restaurants in this British seaside town working together to feed health workers, part of a charitable
initiative, kickstarted with a Facebook group. Originally it asked people for grocery donations for NHS staff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we have got some food you can take.
STEWART (voice-over): But soon, local businesses asked how they could help, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We partnered up with (INAUDIBLE) and we have got a roster of (INAUDIBLE) providing us with (INAUDIBLE) meals a day.
STEWART (voice-over): The costs for these businesses, many already struggling under lockdown, can be covered through local crowdfunding
although many donate for free. It also gives the workers an opportunity to give back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a local taxi driver, who is not working at the moment.
STEWART (voice-over): Including the crucial delivery man, bringing the goods to the front line where it is a major boost for morale.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) they're on the front line every day. They're in battle every day. And the least we can do is give them some food
to say thank you (INAUDIBLE).
STEWART (voice-over): Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: It's always nice to see people doing nice things for others, even though we're all living in a state of anxiety and uncertainty, not knowing
when this particular difficult chapter will end for everybody.
Do stay with CNN. We will keep you informed 24 hours a day on the pandemic and all the other big news stories. Do stay tuned on CNN. John King is
coming up next.
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END
