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Lawmakers Question United Kingdom Prime Minister Boris Johnson About Coronavirus Response; Three Thousand Riot Police Descend On Streets In Hong Kong, Around 300 Arrested; Protestors Furious Over Two Proposed Chinese Laws; Ohio Governor Mike DeWine Urges The Continued Use Of Face Masks; Denmark Allows Cross-Border Sweethearts To Reunite. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 27, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Clarissa Ward joins me from 10 Downing Street. Of course we really expect not just questions on the COVID-19 pandemic but on
Dominic Cummings. This is the Prime Minister really under fire, Clarissa.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Very much under fire and I think a lot of people are little bit disappointed that we're not
having Prime Minister's questions which you would normally have. Parliament is in recess.
Instead we have this Liaison Committee which is the biannual event it seem generally speaking Hala as being a little less combative, a little less
raucous than Prime Minister's questions a little less confrontational.
And I think judging by what we're seeing in the polls today that's what the public would like to see. They want to see feet held to the fire, not just
about the Coronavirus handling of this crisis, but more specifically, about this issue of Dominic Cummings, the Prime Minister's top aide.
I just wanted to run through quickly some of these polls because it really is staggering for a Prime Minister like Boris Johnson who was really
sailing on very high popularity ratings, one poll Savanta ComRes saying that his personal popularity has fallen 20 points, 20 points, Hala, in 4
days.
"The Daily Mail" which you know notoriously skews somewhat conservative, two third of readers saying that Cummings should resign. Two other polls
saying even more broadly that this is sort of helping to galvanize some support of labor versus conservative with conservative showing more popular
but labor starting to close that gap.
Of course, we have also heard from more than 30 as you mentioned Tory MPs, dozens of parliamentarian's lawmakers coming out and saying this is absurd,
that either Dominic Cummings must offer his resignation or Prime Minister Boris Johnson must fire him because there's a perceived hypocrisy in all of
this.
The sense that the government gives guidelines to the public expects them to adhere to them and then doesn't obey those very same guidelines that
they have set and that have really galled the British public.
So I think we'll definitely expect the estimated amount of time roughly to be spent on the issue of Dominic Cummings, somewhere in the region of 20
minutes. Some people would probably like to see even longer on it.
But of course there are a plethora of other really important fundamental issues about how the government has handled or some would say mishandled
this crisis that also need to be dealt with. And this entire event is only expected to take 90 minutes. So a lot to get through and you can be sure
that the Prime Minister will face some very tough questioning, Hala.
GORANI: And Boris Johnson has previously declined invitations by this very committee and there is anger that some of the Tory the conservative MPs who
believe Dominic Cummings should be fired and are angry with the Prime Minister won't have an opportunity to put the questions to the Prime
Minister.
And so, even in a, you know, on a day that the Prime Minister will be answering questions, even that particular process is frustrating some
lawmakers. I understand the Prime Minister is actually starting to speak. Let's listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --copy of the announcement you're going to make in the Committee. But without time to scrutinize many deaths the committee is
concerned that it does not wish to be distracted from the questions we have got. And if the announcement is lengthy - I'm afraid it will slightly
lengthen the proceedings. I'm sorry about that. But if you can keep your questions short that will help - answers short that will help us.
BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll go straight in. The Committee is obviously extremely concerned about the issue of your senior adviser. This poll
suggests large majority of the public believe that your adviser did break the lockdown rules. How much do you think this is undermined the moral
authority of the government with the public at a time when public confidence in the government is so important?
JOHNSON: Well, thank you very much. I wasn't going to make a long announcement today about the test and trace scheme. But I thought that your
committee would like to interrogate me about it if they have a chance to read what we're doing.
But on that particular matter, all I would say is that this is really been going on for several days now and - or in the media at least, and I, of
course, deeply sorry for all the hurt and pain and anxiety that people have been going through, throughout this period.
This country has been going through a frankly most difficult time. We're asking people to do quite exceptionally tough things, separating them from
their families, but I must say that I feel that from my adviser to whom you refer we've had quite a lot of autobiography recently.
[11:05:00]
JOHNSON: I've commented on it, I think people know my views. I really don't propose to add to it. And I think what the public do want us to focus on,
Bernard, if I may, I think they want us to focus on as far as we - politicians possibly can on uniting our message to get to your point and
focusing on their needs and explaining carefully what needs to be didn't next to get our country through this epidemic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prime Minister, you said on the 24th of May that Dominic Cummings acted responsibly, legally and with integrity that reflects that
special advisers are banned by the section of integrity in the Civil Service Code. Why have not invited the cabinet secretary to conduction -
his own independent inquiry in order to give you independent advice.
JOHNSON: Well, I do think that's a reasonable question to ask but as I say we have had a huge amount of - of discussion of what happened, in the life
of my adviser between 27th of March and the 14th of April? And quite frankly I'm not certain right now that an inquiry into that matter is a
very good use of official time. We're working flat out on Coronavirus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What advise have you sought from the Cabinet Secretary about compliance with the code and of that matter of integrity in the code?
JOHNSON: Well, I have no reason to believe that there is any dissent from what I said a few days ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And have you had an opportunity to ask his own questions of your senior adviser?
JOHNSON: I'm not going to go into the discussions that have taken place but I have no reason to depart from what I've already said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, it is unprecedented for a special adviser to their own press conference in the Rose Garden in Downing Street. How did
you consult the cabinet before agreeing to this?
JOHNSON: Well, I thought that it would be a very good thing if people could understand what I had understood myself previously I think on the previous
day about what took place and there you go. There you go we had a long go at it and, yes, look, it's been a very frustrating episode and I understand
why people are so - have been so concerned because this country is going through a horrendously difficult time.
But I really think that, you know, insofar as what we need to do is to focus on getting the message right, which is probably common ground with
your Committee, then I think what we need to do really is to move on and to get on to how we're going to sort out a Coronavirus which is really I think
the priority, the overwhelming priority of the people of this country.
We have a plan. We have been going through it. It's working. We now are coming tomorrow the 28th of May and very important next stage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we're shot. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good to see you. Delay in activity and the frustrating - can I start with - I
actually think that you have been quite brave, brave in the way that you have been prepared to sacrifice the credibility and popularity of your own
government just to stand by your man.
You've done something I've never seen done in the 20 years I've been in the House. You've somehow managed to unite a nation in condemnation and
indignation over your handling of Mr. Cummings. And Mr. Chairman eluded 80 percent of the British public now think that Dominic Cummings, a little 63
percent said you should sack him.
But the most worrying thing prime Minister is 65 percent say the conduct makes it less likely that the public will now follow lockdown rules.
Surely, Prime Minister, surely no man is more important than keeping this nation safe.
JOHNSON: Well, Pete, if I may respectfully say in addition to what I've already said about that particular matter, a lot of what was written and
said over Saturday and Sunday was false in respect to my adviser.
It wasn't correct and I think that he's had an opportunity to clear the matter up and notwithstanding the various party political points you may
seek to make I think the best and your point about the message, I respectfully disagree.
I think actually the best way to clarify the message, the best way for people to understand what we need to do next is for us all to move on and
focus on what we're doing for tomorrow, what we're doing --?
[11:10:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've made that point, Prime Minister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prime Minister, have you had a look at your inbox? My inbox like MPs across the U.K. has filled with people listing the
sacrifices, to follow instructions that you set. I think constituents haven't been able to see their grandchildren and families for months,
people not being able to visit dying relatives--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your question--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what this looks like for them? One rule for those at the heart of government and another rule for everyone else, he
won't say sorry on his behalf?
JOHNSON: Of course, Pete, I am sorry for the pain as I said, the anguish and the heartbreak of so many people in this country. And by the way there
are people across government at every level who has been going through exactly the same deprivations and difficulties. And of course we understand
that and share that.
All I'm saying to you is that I think that what we need to do now as politicians, as leaders, if we possibly can, is to set aside this row
because I'm afraid a lot of the allegations turned out to be totally false and to move on.
I've said what I've had to say about that matter. I think that insofar as it is correct to say that it is a distraction, then by that very argument
now's the time to leave it aside and move on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Point made. But this is just growing and growing, Prime Minister. The anger is reaching fever pitch. Right thing so - just looks
like petulance defines us - the nation. You know that eventually will have to fight with - anything to add, Prime Minister?
JOHNSON: --much for your point I consider that to be a very, you know, it's a valuable piece of you're making a political point and a piece of
political advice. I consider that this government what this government needs to do is focus on the needs of the nation, on sorting out this
problem and on getting our message across and that's what we're going to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're muted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good afternoon, Prime Minister. You talk about the enormous national effort you talk about the nation but how frustrating for
you is it that you as the U.K. Prime Minister in this enormous peacetime crisis? In fact we've not been able to act as one United Kingdom with one
single set of clear rules, one joined up strategy, would you think that the variable geometry of four nation's approach actually reflects the strength
of the union at this time?
JOHNSON: Well, so, Steven, really good question and actually one of the interesting things which you wouldn't possibly get through my exchange just
now with Pete is fantastic cooperation, collaboration between all four nations of the U.K.
If you look at the differences between our approaches, they're marginal and to get to your point it is very important that when there is a slight
difference in the "R" for instance between one part of the U.K. or another or when one of us has a slightly different problem with care homes or
seeing in Scotland or Wales, it is entirely sensible that there should be slightly different approaches and that's indeed what we have seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see that--
JOHNSON: --and you see that in many European countries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Prime Minister. So far on that point about collaboration--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One sentence--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How influential are the criticisms of the Scottish Wealth Minister about the easing of lockdown rules ahead of your statement
on May 10th? Did they effectively put a break or temper your instincts to go further? Is that the reason why you gave a more cautious statement on
that day? Are they having any influence over Prime Minister?
JOHNSON: Steven, we all work together and I listen very carefully to Mark says, to what Arlene and Michelle say, what Nicolas says. Of course we
think about it together. Actually, what we said on May 10th was a pretty cautious message.
We decided to - as everybody knows to have a relaxation that encourages people who must go to work for their job to go to work. It's still the case
that if you can work from home you should work from home. But what we're also - what we also brought in relaxations on exercise and people's ability
to travel, to take exercise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only in England.
[11:15:00]
JOHNSON: And actually, I was struck by the congruence rather than the disparity. I think it's always sort of suits those who lavish separatist or
again to break up the U.K. to play up differences when, in fact, the unity has been much more conspicuous than you might believe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Already four minutes behind, Prime Minister. Simon Hall?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Sir Bernard. Prime Minister, do we not think given the huge amount of cross border traffic between the Republic and
Northern Ireland that we need to ensure that we are in as close lockstep as possible with the Republic in order to ensure as we take our baby steps to
release lockdown that the people are - all of the people of the Isle of Ireland are as safe as possible?
JOHNSON: Yes, absolutely Simon and I know that you follow this very closely from your vantage point on the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. Thank
you for all your work there. Just to say that what we're - I have a very good, you know, relationship, working relationship with Leo - as you may
know. We talk about what we're trying to do together as much as possible.
One interesting thing is that it clearly Island the Republic of Ireland won't be effected by the changes that we bring in. On quarantine will keep
the CTA keep the common travel areas and as you know by the operations going on with the - apps of working together as closely as we possibly can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all right starts to creep up and lockdown needs to be replaced either as it is or may be both full and robust. My
inbox tells me that there is a result of the last few days the response of the British people is going to be far less energetic than it was first time
round. And that is a direct result all of the activities of your senior advisor.
You're right to say that we knew what your views are? Frankly, Prime Minister I don't think anybody understands why you hope to do so. So what
do we say to our constituents who are likely to say you can keep your lockdown if it has to come back if other people don't abide by it why on
earth should wait?
JOHNSON: Well, Simon I must say I don't think that's true about how the British people will respond to the next phase is to how to work the testing
crisis? I don't think that's how they responded to tools right the crisis they responded with fantastic responsibility and collectively we've got
that all done and got the incidence of the disease.
It does support for a second that that you were right which I didn't accept. All the more reason now for us to be consistent, clear in our
message driving the key messages particularly about washing your hands, maintaining social distance, isolating if you have symptoms. All these
things will continue to be absolutely vital as we move into the next phase.
What coming down the COVID Alert System, what coming down from that will go towards a level three we have been taking decision tomorrow? But all
depends as you know what we're doing with schools with nonessential retail from June 1st with closed room with outdoor shop. All that depends on our
ability to continue to get it all done and that means we've got to be ruthless on message.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, thank you. I appreciate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you Prime Minister he said there's a number of the allegations that made about Dominic Cummings were false. You were with
him for 6 hours; did you see the evidence to prove that?
JOHNSON: May God. I don't want it to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, or no Prime Minister. It is a simple question. Did you see the evidence?
JOHNSON: I didn't want to get into a much more other than I said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a simple question. Did you see the evidence?
JOHNSON: I will say yes I did. But I don't want to - I don't want to--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, what you said was I promise you saw the evidence which I agree that it would be a good idea for the Cabinet Secretary to see
that work or if it to be published. And then this problem might be off your table.
JOHNSON: Well, I think actually that it would not be doing my job if I were now to shuffle this problem into the hands of officials who believe me - as
I think the public would want working flat out to do with Coronavirus.
I think everybody's had a - I do think there is a great physical interest in this. I'm not certain that and I understand that could be - you know I
totally understand public indignation. I think you understand that. But I do think this - I don't understand things I've said what I said about the
whole business.
[11:20:00]
JOHNSON: I think it would be much better if we could now move on and focus on the next steps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We must try avoiding repeating ourselves--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you Prime Minister. What said is extremely surprising that you won't provide that evidence to the Cabinet Secretary or
have any independent verification of it.
But let me ask you about your instructions now to parents who either have COVID or have the symptoms of COVID who won't know how seriously they're
going to get it and who have no local child care available?
Is the message to those parents now, the one from - please stay at home unless there's a risk to life and if you get ill contact the community hubs
or is it the message from the Transport Secretary and the Community Secretary to be able to travel to wherever you have a support network?
In the words of Robert this morning, if you don't have ready access to child care then you can do as Dominic Cummings did. Which is it?
JOHNSON: Well, I'm not certain that there's much of a discrepancy between those two bits of advises as you suggest. And I think what Jenny was trying
to say was it if you got exceptional difficulties with child care, then you should take account of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, but this we are not talking about exceptional difficulties of the child care we're talking about the very normal
difficulties with child care. A survey from mums net today found a quarter of parents, a quarter of parents said they didn't have access to local
child care when they had COVID and were in the same circumstances as Dominic Cummings.
A third of them say they have been more likely to break the rules now. So if you are trying to tackle local outbreaks and prevent them spreading, you
need to be giving clear advice to parents.
JOHNSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is it because it is not clear to me from listening to Jenny Harris and to Robert Generic what that advice to parents
in Dominic Cummings' situation?
JOHNSON: The clear advice is to stay at home and if you absolutely have to go to work to do your job. If you have exceptional problems with child care
then that may cause you to vary your arrangements and that's clear.
We are also saying from tomorrow that - this is an important development, that you - there is a new test and trace operation which will change
people's lives and which will require a great deal of thought and compliance but which I think will be worth it for the whole nation.
And the fundamental advice remains absolutely unchanged which is wash your hands, observe social distancing and self isolate--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is not quite--
JOHNSON: --and get a test.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm asking specifically about your advice to parents who have COVID. Advice to parents - you're not giving. The reason that you
are not giving, the reason you are ducking it - the reason you're trying to--
JOHNSON: I'm not ducking it. Actually, I've just given, I've just said that I agree - I don't think that - I don't think that you're - I don't think
that your--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travel across the country even though it may mean them having to go into a hospital somewhere else where they may seek further
infection. Do you want them to do that or do you want them to stay put? When they don't have local child care like around a quarter of the parents?
JOHNSON: You have to look at each individual case and particular circumstances that my adviser explained. I think what Jenny Harris was
trying to say was that where there are exceptional difficulties and people needed to take account of them and - other than that, I don't really know
what I can add.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, here's the problem, the Prime Minister. The reason you are ducking this, is because the reason you're not giving people a
straight answer is because you're trying to protect Dominic Cummings. The reason you sent the ministers out to say fledgy things and unclear things
is because you are trying not to incriminate Dominic Cummings and don't want to apologize for him.
The problem is that means you are putting your political concerns ahead of clear public health messages to parents who have Coronavirus. And the
consequence of that is putting your political concerns above the national interest. You are trashing in the words of the--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we have a question please?
JOHNSON: For me say so, I don't wish to be--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me put this to you as a precise question. On the way into the crisis you were criticized for getting a whole series of
messages, decisions wrong on shaking hands, on businesses usual on letting- -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we have a question please?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A series of those things and 40,000 people are dead. We need you to get this right now. So can you tell us you have a choice
between protecting Dominic Cummings and putting the national interest first, which would it be, Prime Minister?
[11:25:00]
JOHNSON: Well, I think my choice is the choice of the British people. I would want us all to make, Yvette and that is as far as we possibly can to
lay aside party political point scoring and to put the national interest first and to be very clear with the British public about what we want to do
and how we want to take this country forward?
We come now to an important juncture we're moving to set two of our road map. And I think that this conversation has to my mind illuminated why it's
so important for us to move on and be very clear with the British public about how we want them to deal with that? And how we want to make progress?
And frankly when they hear nothing but politicians squabbling and bickering it is no wonder that they feel confused. Much, much more important that we
stress the vital messages, stay at home if you can. Go to work if you must. Though that will change obviously for some sectors as June 1st approaches
and then June 15th when more nonessential retail comes on.
We must have social distancing. It is absolutely vital and really those messages need to be pumped out the whole time by you, Yvette, just as much
as you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prime Minister, we would love to have clear message. I need you get those clear messaging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've had a long time Yvette. We must move on. Are there other questions? I'm obliged to ask the Committee. You want to ask
about the Prime Minister's adviser, otherwise we're moving on. Simon Hall, very brief please?
UNIDNETIFIED MALE: Thank you. Agree entirely with the seriousness of the situation but I don't think anybody can understand why Mr. Cummings is so
pivotal to moving this country forward dealing with Coronavirus? This is now a distraction. People are very annoyed, Prime Minister. Is that on your
radar?
JOHNSON: Well, I think, Simon, you have made that point I think several times now. And my respectful point to you is, yes, I do understand people's
feelings. I do understand why people feel such indignation about the whole business, the pain of the whole business of the lockdown?
But I really also think that what they want now is for us to focus on them and their needs rather than on a political ding dong about what one adviser
may or may not have done? And intend to repeat it - important one which I don't think you've ignored it.
A lot of the allegations that were made about that adviser were simply not correct and I don't think that point has been sufficiently acknowledged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Moving on to science and health. Whoever wants to carry on with that subject, right, we're moving on to science and health. Gregg
Clarke we're now quite far behind I'm afraid. You're muted Gregg.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that better?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prime Minister, good afternoon. Good to see you back. You have got a lot of scientific advice. Do you see it yourself?
JOHNSON: I don't - Greg, thank you. I don't. Good to see you, too. I don't actually read the scientific papers, except in exceptional circumstances.
But what I do get is the direct digest from sage which as you know is chaired by - and Co-Chaired by Chris Witty and they give me the cream of
that advice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. So you gate summary. From reading that advice, can you explain why we have in this country a policy of two meters social
distancing when the World Health Organization recommends one meter? And countries that have a very good track record in controlling COVID of Hong
Kong, Singapore, Australia and Germany specify either one meter or one and a half meters?
JOHNSON: Well look, Greg, you are making an important point and one that I have made myself many times in the course of the debates that we have had.
And the advice from sage remains at the moment that there's a very considerable reduction in risk at two meters.
My own hope and this is where I hope we can get, my own hope is that as we make progress in getting the virus down, in reducing the incidents, that we
will be able to reduce that distance and which I think will be particularly valuable on transport and clearly in the hospitality sector.
[11:30:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Recognize international boundaries science is international. Have you asked your advisers why our specification should be
the highest in the world?
JOHNSON: I have, actually.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the answer?
JOHNSON: Their answer is that that's what they feel is the right interval for us to--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why this difference.
JOHNSON: And I can't - you know, we rely and have done throughout on the guidance we get from our advisers and that is what they think is
appropriate at the moment. You know that may evolve as you know. Sage has changed its advise for instance on face coverings.
UNIDNETIFIED MALE: The point needs to be made - to be able to discuss, Prime Minister. Perhaps you can ask sage to review the two meter rule. I
think a good time for shops and other places to consider their practice on the 15th of June and publish what they say because this will have a massive
impact on whether many workplaces can open. Would you make that commitment?
JOHNSON: I can not only make that commitment but I can tell you I have already done just that so I think - I hope we'll make progress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Promising good. When contract tracing is under way, if you're phoned up and told to stay home, contact with an infected person, is
staying at home compulsory?
GORANI: The U.K. Prime Minister offers no real apology for the actions of his Adviser Dominic Cummings. Instead saying he's sorry for the pain the
country has gone through. The Prime Minister also not supporting an inquiry into the actions of Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson more than once
saying that he needs and that the country needs to move on.
Our Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward now joins me live. I wonder how that will play out with the British public, the fact that the
Prime Minister is obviously very eager for this to - whole controversy to be in his rear-view mirror.
WARD: Yes. It is interesting, Hala, because you know we have just been talking over the last couple of hours about the sort of mounting public
pressure on either Dominic Cummings who resigned or Prime Minister Boris Johnson to give him the sack essentially.
And it doesn't appear that the Prime Minister is sort of listening or hearing that message. This is supposed to be a Committee that would be
dedicated to having a broader conversation about the COVID-19 crisis and the government's handling of it.
But as you could hear and as our viewers could hear just listening in there for that first half hour it was largely consumed by angry MPs pushing the
Prime Minister on first of all Dominic Cummings' story which many people are very skeptical about and of course on the government's reaction to it
on the Prime Minister's reaction to it or on the lack of what they might deem a suitable reaction to it.
You mentioned the inquiry. This is something that came up and the Prime Minister essentially saying, you know, I'm not sure - this was his quote,
not sure an inquiry is a good use of our time right now. We are flat out on Coronavirus.
And this is an expression he used at several points so far that we have heard. The idea that the government is flat out working on trying to deal
with this crisis and certainly I think there are many people who can feel some sympathy that the government does have in a sense big fish to fry
right now with this unprecedented crisis, pandemic the likes of which we have not seen in our lifetime.
But at the same time the longer I think the Prime Minister waits or the further he goes without acknowledging the public's feelings that they would
like to see an apology the more it's possible that we will see his credibility and his popularity ratings affected by that.
It's also possible that things simply blow over but just looking at the polls, Hala, that you and I have been discussing, I mean, in particular
this one by Savanta ComRes saying that Boris Johnson's personal popularity has fallen by 20 points in just 4 days.
So this crisis or this sort of political crisis in a much broader, bigger crisis is having an impact. Whether or not the Prime Minister regards it as
being important in the grander scheme of things and given the 40,000 deaths one can understand that it doesn't seem like the most important political
imperative at the moment.
But the public for whatever reason certainly does seem to feel angered about this issue and I think you saw it reflected in the questioning coming
the Prime Minister's way Hala.
[11:35:00]
GORANI: I mean, I wonder if it's perhaps because ordinary people can relate to having child care issues and being concerned about the health of their
parents. And despite the fact that some people didn't travel even though they had a very important crucial reason to do so whether it was, I don't
know, a parent's funeral or a sick relative, that seeing the Prime Minister's adviser do so breaking all the rules that the government has
laid out for everyone to follow, that this just smacks of hypocrisy and double standards.
WARD: I think you have nailed it on the head. This has been an incredibly trying 2.5, 3 months almost now for many, many people across the world. And
particularly here in the U.K. which has such a high death toll, relative to the rest of Europe.
And people do feel very strongly they have sacrificed an inordinate amount to try to do the right, to do their civic duty to be part of the greater
good and participate and contribute to the country in this time of need.
And to see someone in the position of power so close to the Prime Minister almost seemingly cavalierly to flaunt his transgression which is how some
people see Dominic Cummings' behavior. I think that is very galling to many members of the public and perhaps it is also something that's easier to
latch on, to there is more tangible than some of what's going on behind closed doors.
And when we talk about these enormous death tolls and the lack of PPE and ventilators and these can be largely abstract and difficult for the public
who are not being exposed to them, who are not privy to them, who are not seeing them day in and day out.
Dominic Cummings however is a political figure who has become well-known to the British public for his role particularly in Brexit. And I think perhaps
for that reason it is easier for people to latch on to this as something that they simply while say enough is enough.
Now it's entirely possible that in a couple day's time this whole thing will blow over and perhaps even Prime Minister Boris Johnson will be given
some credit for standing by his man but certainly one can see that public anger doesn't seem to be abating just yet and it may turn out to be a
dubious strategy particularly given that more than 30 dozen now of Tory MPs are also calling for him to either resign himself or to be dismissed, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Like the MPs, we have spent this live report mainly talking about Dominic Cummings but the death toll in this country, the
U.K., is highest in all of Europe. And this country that had with weeks to prepare. It knew the pandemic was coming its way.
The Prime Minister, though, defending his government's handling of the crisis in this - at least in the first half hour of this inquiry, of this
testimony I should say.
WARD: Defending it to the hilt and I mean, of course, you know, as a Prime Minister and a politician he doesn't have a huge amount of choice. One has
to sort of defend what you've already sort of - the path that you have laid out.
But I do think you also heard quite a lot of hesitation there some stumbling trying to answer some of the more direct and tough questions not
just about Dominic Cummings as we've already discussed but some of the more salient points that you are making as well about the government's overall
performance in terms of combating this crisis.
The lack of clarity that many see in the guidelines that have been handed down the fact that the U.K. waited a significantly longer than other
European countries before announcing the lockdown, the fact that PPE was in short support for seemingly interminable length of time.
The fact that testing was at such a low number again for weeks and weeks. The government has now made a dramatic increase in the amount of testing
being done but I do think a lot people will be watching very closely when this test and trace program begins starting tomorrow.
This, of course, is a crucial part of trying to get people back to work, kids back to school and keeping that "R" rate as the British government
calls it, which is essentially the rate of transmission of infection below 1. That will be a critical component and something that the government's
critics will be watching closely to see if they're able to pull it off, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Clarissa Ward, thank you very much. Live at 10 Downing Street. We will have more after a break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:40:00]
GORANI: Let's talk about Hong Kong now. The government there is taking an all out zero tolerance approach to protests that are gripping the city once
again. CNN was there as police descended on the streets. You see our Anna Coren and her team capturing the scene. 3,000 riot police out in force in
the past few hours in Hong Kong.
They say around 300 arrests were made. Protesters are seeing this as a fight to save Hong Kong's basic freedoms. They are furious over two new
laws proposed by the Chinese Communist Party from Beijing, one a national security law that would effectively make protesting against the government
illegal and now a bill that would it make a crime to insult China's National Anthem. CNN's Anna Coren spoke with our rosemary church a bit
earlier.
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the distance you can see crowds of protesters who have been chanting slogans like Hong Kong independence is
the only way out. That is something that we have been hearing, it is no longer five or six demands but now calling for independence.
This, of course, is in the wake of Beijing saying that this national security law that is proposed is going to be enforced on Hong Kong. A short
time ago, Rosemarie, we were following the protesters as police came in and one of the protesters was arrested right in front of me.
Police were spraying pepper spray which has sort of been their go-to over the course of the day. I got hit with pepper spray. Other members of my
crew hit with pepper spray. It is not a pleasant experience at all. A real burning sensation but this is how they're dispersing the crowds today.
We heard from police. They have arrested 240 people to date and remembering, too, that the reason everyone turned out was for this National
Anthem Bill being debated and that is due to be debated over four days.
The final vote, however, will now take place on June 4th next week which is the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre in Beijing which is
incredibly controversial to be placing the vote on that particular day.
Many people feel this is just rubbing salt in the wound. Hong Kong protesters if Sunday was any indication, if today is any indication,
considering police arrested around 240 people, they will not be allowed to gather on the 4th of June to show their respects, to hold their vigil like
they have every since the massacre.
[11:45:00]
COREN: The only place in China where they have been allowed to gather but police are not allowing any, any type of assembly of people.
GORANI: That was Anna Coren there on the streets of Hong Kong. CNN caught up with one of the leading pro democracy activists there Joshua Wong. He
spoke of the dangers protesters could face if this national security legislation becomes law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSHUA WONG, PRO-DEMOCRACY ACTIVIST: Beijing taking steps on Coronavirus and which is crystal clear how they hope to silence the voice of Hong Kong?
In previous days we might be arrested, prosecuted and jailed in Hong Kong but once the national security law passes, secret police from Beijing could
arrest me to Mainland China and I might be jailed in Beijing instead of Hong Kong in the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, on the other hand, Hong Kong's number two official says the new law would not erode the territory's freedoms, something obviously the
protesters dispute. Our Ivan Watson pressed Chief Secretary Matthew Cheung in this exclusive interview.
MATTHEW CHEUNG, HONG KONG CHIEF SECRETARY: 99.99 percent of the Hong Kong population will not be affected they called about a life that continued
investment in Hong Kong coming in and out of Hong Kong officials capital, information and so on. Foreign media most welcome here in Hong Kong.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Could someone who's deemed or accused of being a terrorist or of committing subversion be taken
to Mainland China for prosecution under this new law?
CHEUNG: As I said all these are details yet to be announced. Everybody's waiting for it. We are also - there's developments closely we'll cooperate
fully in the process. Reflect the views, aspirations and concerns of the local and international community.
WATSON: There are these concerns and people are raising these questions and you're saying trust us. It'll bet get figured out but you don't have a say
in the drafting of this legislation?
CHEUNG: It will be in the public arena before long.
WATSON: Okay.
CHEUNG: The drafting process takes a bit of time. But in the process would take a time - aspirations and concerns.
WATSON: Let me ask you another question. You know, there's very strict censorship in nearby Mainland China. Would that trickle into Hong Kong
society, into social media sphere, into media?
CHEUNG: I doubt it. I doubt it. This is Hong Kong's--
WATSON: Do you guarantee that?
CHEUNG: Well, it is common sense.
GORANI: And to the U.S. now, New York City hit a milestone at the Stock Exchange. There's still a lot of work to do though before this city is
fully reopened before it's the New York we know. Brynn Gingras takes a look at the recovery headlines across the United States.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In New York City, Governor Andrew Cuomo helped ring in the Stock Exchange for the first time in two
months. It is the only part of the state he says is not yet ready to be open this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, (D-NY): So it had the worst problem in the nation. One of the worst problems on the globe and we're now going to focus on
reopening New York City. And again, we do it smartly. We have data. We have tests. We can focus on the new cases in New York City. Where are those
infections still coming from?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: That message echoed in some of the hardest hit states like Michigan where new Coronavirus cases are decreasing as the state begins to
reopen businesses like retail stores.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETCHEN WHITMER, MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Let's not us here in Michigan have made this sacrifice in vain and fear numbers start to rise again. We have
to learn to live with this virus for the time being. That means masks and distancing and hand washing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: This as the CDC warns antibody tests should not be a deciding factor on whether employees return to work saying they could be inaccurate
as much as half the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There was a rush to get tests out there. Now they're dialing that back and trying to go back and
validate some of these tests. You don't want do say they have the antibody and don't because they will have this false sense of security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: The number of new Coronavirus cases is rising in at least 14 states. But in Georgia one of the first states to roll back restrictions it
appears that new cases are mostly holding steady. Atlanta's Mayor says it's too early to be content.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, ATLANTA, GEORGIA MAYOR: We're not quite out of the woods. But it does concern me that we are seeing people disregard social
distancing guidelines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GINGRAS: As President Trump continues to make wearing face coverings a political issue from the White House, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine sending
this message instead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE DEWINE, OHIO GOVERNOR: Supposed to love your fellow man and woman and that's what we're really doing. That's the message. Not wearing it so much
for yourself as you're wearing it for that person that you're going to come in contact with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:50:00]
GINRAS: Meanwhile in most of California, hair salons and barbershops can now open using new safety guidelines including face coverings for staff and
clients but residents of Los Angeles and San Francisco will have to wait to use these services again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LONDON BREED, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA MAYOR: We know that people are getting anxious. They want services and also people are anxious about
getting back to work but we want to make sure we do so responsibly.
GORANI: All right. That is a look across the United States. Thanks, Brynn Gingras. Now in Brazil, the Coronavirus numbers are continuing to move but
very much in the wrong direction. Monday and Tuesday saw a two-day spike that surpassed the daily infections in the United States.
In Manaus, one of the hardest hit cities in the country, the Mayor launched harsh criticism of the Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro blaming him for
the spike and calling for his resignation. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: This is a landing of last resort seeking salvation in a Coronavirus hot bed. Tiny planes bring
the sickest COVID patients from hundreds of miles away deep in the Amazon to Manaus Brazil's worst hit city and to a hospital bed.
A journey most make alone. From which some won't go home. This is what doing well looks like on these flights, moving. The woman on board
struggling motionless once they had to intubate a patient in midair.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SELMA HADDAD, DOCTOR: Very hard. You carry a weight that you don't see. Every time I carry this weight I feel like I carry this weight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: They arrive in a city mired not only death but also fury. Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro has made light of the virus and called the Mayor a
piece of excrement for digging these mass graves. They had little choice when the bodies started piling up.
This month they buried 103 in one day digging at night. Even in two hours, five come one by one laid in the trench. Many mourners say those aren't
Coronavirus deaths but it's hard to know here.
The official numbers in Brazil don't tell the whole picture partly because there's not enough testing. You can see that here these are those who have
died and have tested positive for Coronavirus. But these graves staggeringly, well, they're the ones that they suspect may have died of the
disease. The mass burial itself is distressing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEDRO CHAVES, MANAUS RESIDENT: We're here around 30 minutes, waiting for more. I just want to put my mom there in and finish this. We don't need
this family doesn't need this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: We asked the gravediggers who thinks fewer would have died here if the President kept quiet. No one listens to Bolsonaro, one says. He's not
there for the people. He should have asked us what was going on. Still the hospitals here receive a daily stream of new patients.
These are outlying villages where local tribes live badly hit. The ICU which have always - latest where possible less invasive means is frenetic.
And even the patients have heard what the President said.
The Mayor is just trying to save lives, says this man and the President negates that inside a local indigenous leader visit newly adopting the role
from his father killed by the virus two weeks ago.
I took my father in to hospital where he was intubated for five days, he says. Now we have 300 people with symptoms. Politically, the President
forgot us and is killing the indigenous people. Bolsonaro insists he is for economic growth and safety but a virus is tearing through the poor here.
Their remote way of life was no protection from this modern plague. It just put help further away. Nick Paton Walsh CNN, Manaus, Brazil.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:55:00]
GORANI: The global pandemic is not delaying Space X's plan to send two American Astronauts to the International Space Station.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four, three, two, one, zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This was one of the test flights in March. The actual launch is scheduled to happen at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida in a few hours.
In preparation, both NASA Astronauts have been quarantined together.
And finally, speaking of togetherness, long distance relationships just got a boost in Denmark. The Danish government is allowing Danish citizens,
fiances and partners who live in neighboring countries to enter Denmark after weeks of mandatory social distancing but there is a catch they must
sign a declaration that they have been in a relationship for at least six months and that it was more than just communicating by phone.
I hope their stories match. Thank you for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: --recent deal with the Taliban. The tweet from President, "Bring our soldiers back home," President Trump saying yesterday
he wants American troops out as soon as reasonable.
END
