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George Floyd's Brother Philonise Floyd Testifies On Capitol Hill; Growing Push To End Police Brutality & Racism In United Kingdom; Derek Chauvin Was In Talks For Plea Deal Before Arrest, But Ultimately Negotiations Failed; United Kingdom Government Addressing Colonialist & Slavery-Related Statues; Three More Cases Of Men Dying In Police Custody. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 10, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from around the world. I'm Hala Gorani in London. This hour the
brother of George Floyd delivers a powerful message on Capitol Hill less than 24 hours after Floyd's funeral and lawmakers are pushing legislation
on police reform. We'll bring you the latest on that initiative.
This as the U.K. has its own reckoning over racism. I'll be joined by the U.K. Shadow Foreign Secretary who says her country can't afford to be
silent anymore. And after years of battling racist attitudes in the fashion industry, supermodel Naomi Campbell says she wants to see justice in the
wake of Floyd's death. She'll join me later this hour.
One day after George Floyd's emotional funeral in Texas, the call on police brutality has now moved to Washington. It is the next chapter you could
argue in this wave of protests and demonstrations. George Floyd's brother testified last hour at a U.S. House hearing convened to examine racial
profiling and continuing police attacks on people of color.
In an emotional opening statement, Philonise Floyd urged law makers to take action to prevent any more deaths like the ones his brother experienced
pleading to breathe under the knee of a police officer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILONISE FLOYD, GOERGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: George was not heard by anyone that day. He didn't deserve to die over $20. I'm asking you, is that what a
black man is worth? $20? This is 2020. Enough is enough. The people marching in the streets are telling you enough is enough.
By the leaders in our country, the world needs the right thing. The people elected you to speak for them, to make positive change. George's name means
something. You have the opportunity here today to make your names mean something, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, that is the question, so many questions asked by the brother of George Floyd that not just politicians but the country as a whole will
have to answer. As we pointed out here this week, George Floyd's death has sparked a global call for action not limited just to the United States.
Protesters in this country and the U.K. toppled a statue of a 17th century slave trader. Similar memorials to racist's leaders are under scrutiny
across all of Europe, and there is a sea change afoot in the media and in Hollywood about how to address past racism incidents, also what's going on
today and a look at the future?
We'll take a look at that this hour for you. For instance, "Gone with the Wind" should that movie be seen in a new context, other entertainment
series such as "Little Britain" here in the U.K. as well being reexamined and another look taken at those?
Back to Washington, though, and the U.S. House hearing that featured testimony from George Floyd's brother. Boris Sanchez joins me now with
more. So politicians on Capitol Hill and in Washington are looking at more legislation to reform the police. What will this legislation potentially
look like and how much impact will it potentially have since policing is a state matter in the United States?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRSPONDENT: It is really far too early to say exactly what Democrats and Republicans are ready to compromise on.
Democrats put out their version of this police reform plan on Monday. It contains things like a national ban on chokeholds, a national registry to
detail police misconduct.
They also are looking at limiting the amount of military grade weaponry that local police departments can get their hands on. Further, they're
trying to ban no-knock warrants. The Republican side does contain a couple of those issues, but it's much more measured in its approach.
As you noted it is a local issue specifically for Republicans in some regard. So things like that national ban on chokeholds and the national
registry they're leaving to local communities. The Republican plan being put together by Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, we should point out
the only African-American Republican in the Senate.
The draft was published last night and it essentially contains a certain number of modalities and different attempts to try to incentivize changes
to policing via federal funding, things like limiting federal funds to police departments that don't force the use of body cameras.
Republicans and Democrats generally believe that some reform is needed, but the other outlying question is what the President will sign off on? He has
been mum on what kind of bill he would support.
[11:05:00]
SANCHEZ: He's not given any indication as to which specific portions of police reform he would back. We understand, sources at the White House tell
us that, they have sort of been outlining options for him. He's been receptive to some of them but they have not given us any concrete details.
He is so far has remained steadfast and the idea that law and order must remain and he's not exactly been eager to get behind some of the changes
that people like Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's brother, have been calling for, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Boris thanks very much. Now the killing of George Floyd at the hands of police seems to be sparking a change in tone across the
United States and around the world. His death set off countless multiracial protests like this one in Washington last Sunday.
Civil Rights Activist Reverend Jesse Jackson suggests that this kind of unity shows people are not only acknowledging that a racial crisis exists
in America, they are also referencing the need for change. Reverend Jesse Jackson joins me live from Chicago. Thank you, Reverend for being with us.
Do you think this moment is different in America, and if so, why now?
REVEREND JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS: This is only because the lynching was live on camera. The young 16-year-old who filmed it took it
public. Race supremacy is about America.
Racist supremacy has been the law. We're fighting the pandemic of COVID-19, and the racist police behavior and President seems not to care. It freezes
a certain moment in time and America is revolting.
GORANI: Yes. So, of course, as you mentioned, this killing was on camera. It went on. We all watched every second of the death of George Floyd at the
hands of that police officer. And we heard from George Floyd's brother today asking politicians and lawmakers, he doesn't deserve to die over $20.
I'm asking you, is that what a black man's life is worth, $20? This is 2020. What did you make of what George Floyd's brother said today?
JACKSON: He was buying cigarettes, his brother bought skittles. We must - lynching must be a crime. We have to remain in unity. Police kill people to
protect the bad military. So when the police was arrested for killing George, it's the first time in Minnesota's history that a police was
arrested for killing a black.
When Don was killed in Chicago by police, he was arrested and convicted. Lynching in 1950s, that was a big deal in America, race supremacy, law of
the land.
GORANI: What do you make of the international reaction because obviously this has spread beyond America's borders? I personally have never witnessed
anything like this in a country like the U.K. where the statues honoring slave traders are being pulled down, the statue honoring King Leopold II in
Belgium is being removed. What's your reaction to this movement spreading so globally?
JACKSON: In the last century, led by Robert - in U.K. - slavery. They had - movements in France. The liberty - France to gift America - and when the
civil wars so it's been international for a long time. And in today's technology, what happens there affects everybody.
GORANI: Let me ask you, then, about politics here. You yourself ran for President. Many people are saying that the Presumptive Democratic Nominee,
Joe Biden, should pick a person of color, a woman of color, many people are saying, as his running mate.
Do you think that's what it would take for him to get the political traction that he needs in this environment, thinking of someone like
lawmaker Val Demings, for instance her name has been floated around a lot?
JACKSON: Well, Stacey Abrahams and Susan Rice they're - women. When Joe ran for the nomination - take him across the country.
[11:10:00]
JACKSON: I think - not is about police - when - American life radio ownership, TV ownership banks licenses and the whole society has been about
race supremacy. They had to rethink the race supremacy background.
Al Sharpton - American decision. We must say the race supremacy is an education. One of the things during the pandemic we've seen is health
disparity, job disparity. These are - a long history of - race supremacy in our country.
GORANI: Right. And as far as police reform is concerned, though, that could be the next chapter? Obviously George Floyd, his funeral took place
yesterday, and the question is what happens next, what happens next specifically with police brutality? Are you satisfied with some of the
initiatives that are being proposed so far?
JACKSON: I am, but, again, police have what's called sovereign immunity. It's hard to arrest them, much less convict them, so we must remove those
cushions from around them. But it's not about police it's about health care apartheid, actions of capital in this technology.
We must not stop at just police reform we need to reform the economy. We're basically locked into poverty and locked out of basic liability. Whether
they're all in the football field or basket ball - that's really the facts of American life this is much bigger than just police.
GORANI: Jesse Jackson, Reverend Jesse Jackson, thank you very much for joining us on CNN International. Today we are hearing on Capitol Hill from
the brother of George Floyd, the man whose death set off these worldwide protests. Thank you so much.
Ahead on the program, people are demanding that more colonialist statues in U.K. be removed from public display. What is being done about it and why
protests are continuing? I'll be speaking to the U.K. Shadow Foreign Secretary about the state of affairs and why the country he says cannot
remain silent on racism? We'll be right back.
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[11:15:00]
GORANI: Welcome back. As the debate over racism bruise in the United States, the British government is now acting to remove some painful
reminders of the empire's colonial past. CNN's Nic Robinson has that story.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Lurched around a corner confronting the worst of its colonial racist past Sunday, as protesters at
a black lives matter march in the port City of Bristol toppled a statue of the 17th century slave trader Ed Colston. Then trundled it through the
city's Tarmac streets and tossed it into the sea the same harbor where slave ships once docked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILES CHAMBERS, FIRST POET LAUREATE OF BRISTOL, ENGLAND: It could only have happened that way. It could only have been brought down. It would be like
you having somebody abuse your family or your life, you know who he is, and I got a statue and put it in your front garden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Colston and his employer, the Royal Africa Company, dominated the transatlantic slave trade. He helped ship an estimated 100,000 people
from Africa to the U.S. and the Caribbean. One in five of them died along the way. Colston, whose name adorns buildings, streets, even schools in the
normally restful city, was also a philanthropist. The controversy over his racist past has been brewing for years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAMBERS: We politically tried to go around. We had gone to debates and meetings, meetings with council, radio debates, TV debates, and people
were, if I can say, - around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Condemnation with caveats came quickly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I will not support or he doesn't those who break the law if you want to change the urban landscape, you can
vote for somebody who will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Similar long simpering frustrations over contentious confederate statues in America are coming to a head, too. So is this the moment when
the U.K., the United States and others recognize the pain of the past that black lives matter and re-imagine their countries on new values? In the
fabled University City of Oxford, that's the pressing question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now is the time to change and do things in a different way. We're writing history. If we have to take a statue from there and put
it in a museum, so be it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: The statue, Cecil Rhodes, a leading colonialist who built his "Fortune of Black Labor" and brought scholarships here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this country that - such an - systemic racism, it hasn't been questioned or looked at or sort of dealt with for far too long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Those sign Oxford plans to grant the protesters their wish and the conversation about that new future yet to happen, too. Nic Robertson,
CNN, Oxford, England.
GORANI: Well, my next guest says the U.K. can't afford to remain silent on police brutality and racism. British Shadow Foreign Secretary Lisa Nandy
joins me now from Westminster, here in London. Thanks for being here. What is your reaction to the removal of some of the statues, Colston, the call
to remove the road statue in Oxford? Do you think those memorials and those statues honoring these men should be removed?
LISA NANDY, BRITISH SHADOW FOREIGN SECRETARY: I think most people in this country will agree that we shouldn't be celebrating slave traders in this
day and age. It's a part of our history. It's a part of our history that belongs in museums, not on public pedestals in our public spaces.
I have to say that for a lot of people in this country, particularly the black community, it was a moment of profound relief when that statue was
pulled down of Ed Colston. Like every community leader who has spoken out about this, I would much rather have seen that statue come down by peaceful
means.
But the truth is, as you heard in your report that people have been campaigning through democratic means for decades to try to have something
done about that statue. And the question we should be asking ourselves is why did it take so long? And how can we make sure those voices are heard in
the future?
GORANI: You say we cannot remain silent on police brutality. There is a British - 32 who posted a video of his father - by police back in April. I
just want our viewers to see this video and then I'll get your reaction.
[11:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't touch me. Social distancing, please don't touch me. What the hell?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ask to stay where you are. Stay where you are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't touch me. Oh, my God! What are you doing? Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Lisa Nandy, what do you think needs to change as far as how police interact with people of color and minorities in your country, in the U.K.?
NANDY: Well, I think this is a far wider issue about systemic racism and discrimination against people of color. The U.K. is not immune to it, as
that horrendous clip shows quite clearly. Our police are not armed in the U.K., but they do carry teasers, and there is a similar case that happened
in Manchester. This is not an unusual incident.
I think it's why the murder of George Floyd has touched such a nerve in Britain and around the world. For a lot of people, they feel the pain that
George Floyd's family is going through. This has to be the moment when things start to change.
In Britain, you're nine times more likely to be stopped and searched. If you're black, you're more likely to be stopped and - slightly to be
represented high levels in the criminal justice system just one percent of our - from a black background.
So there are a whole host of things that has to change. We need better political education. We need more diversity in our public services, in the
police force, at the highest levels of decision making. The same is true with politics.
I'm sitting here in parliament where representation is incredibly poor, and we've got to make sure that we've got people who are actually making
decisions in positions of authority who can see racism, particularly those - there are many in my own party who have experienced it all their lives.
They know it when they see it, and they're prepared to do something to act.
That we've got unfortunately in Britain at the moment is a Prime Minister who has been largely silent in the face of these protests, and that has got
to change.
GORANI: And what about - you're the Shadow Foreign Secretary. How do you react to how the Trump Administration is approaching the protests in the
United States? What is your reaction to that as the Shadow Foreign Secretary here in the U.K.?
NANDY: It has been really horrifying for a lot of black people around the world, including here in Britain, to see the reaction of the President to
the latest protests and to the death of George Floyd. People want to see re-election. They don't want to be vilified for going out and taking to the
streets in protest.
I would urge people to remain socially distanced, to remain stay safe, to take measures to protect themselves and their loved ones in the wider
public. But they have got to be finally heard and they have got to be finally heard and this has got to be acted upon.
And the worry that we have here in Britain is that it's become increasingly clear that racism, like homophobia, like xenophobia like misogyny is being
weaponized in the United States and used as a tool in the American elections in order to divide people. And we would--
GORANI: I was going to say, sorry to jump in, this is nothing new, this institutionalized racism, this systemic racism has existed for a very long
time, decades, long before Donald Trump was in the White House, long before Boris Johnson was Prime Minister.
How much of it is the responsibility of the collective here? Because we all saw that slow motion killing of George Floyd and it horrified us, but I
don't think anybody can pretend that this is their first awakening when it comes to matters of race and racism. So it is all of our responsibility,
isn't it?
NANDY: That's absolutely right, and people have been failed for a very long time. There is a very real sense this is now getting worse. That sense is
felt around the world. And people do look to America and to the American President for leadership, particularly because this happened in particular.
And the fact that that hasn't happened, that there hasn't been a concerted attempt to feel the pain of the black community and to start to set things
right is really sending shock waves around the world. The same is true here in Britain where we just haven't seen the leadership that we need.
In your report you talked about the statues now coming down, but most of those statues are coming down because our position politicians, the Mayor
of London, for example, he was a Labor Party politician, has removed the statue in recent days that caused great hurt to the people of London.
[11:25:00]
NANDY: But we need to see a comparable response from the world's leaders. This is the moment where things have to start to change and get better.
GORANI: Well, we'll see if, indeed - I'm hearing a bell ring which I know means you have to go vote, but I'm told I might have time for one quick
last one, because I want to ask you about China and Hong Kong, because we're speaking of Donald Trump.
He's obviously been very antagonistic in his rhetoric against China. Your country is offering citizenship to Hong Kong residents. This is the Boris
Johnson government, so there are about 3 million people that could qualify for this. Do you agree with that move?
NANDY: Well, the U.K. has actually stopped short so far of offering full citizenship rights for overseas passport holders in Hong Kong. What the
government is proposing at the moment is that they'll offer a pass to citizenship so people will be able to come and live and work here for
longer than they're currently entitled to and perhaps qualify for citizenship that way.
I think that's one positive step forward in taking concrete measures to try and counter Chinese aggression in Hong Kong. But there is a bigger problem
for Britain, as you doubtless will see in the United States about the row of whether we give the Chinese company Huawei such a wide view in our 5G
network.
And it simply that we lack the alliances around the world to work with other countries to provide a counterpart to China and we also lack our own
homegrown industries to make sure that strategically, whether it's on energy or 5G, that we'll be able to be strategically independent from China
and not dependent on Chinese investment.
Our relationship with the people of China has always been very important in Britain, and we have amazing medical and scientific educational
collaborations. But the way in which the Chinese government has increasing started to erode the rule of law democracy and human rights particularly in
Hong Kong is something that should be of deep concern to the whole world, and Britain has a particular responsibility to stand up.
I would like to see us do more on that front than just simply choose some of the people we have responsibilities to in Hong Kong to offer them a
haven. We need to have a proper global response to this as to how we manage the rise of China.
GORANI: All right. Lisa Nandy, thank you for that clarification a path to citizenship for those Hong Kong residents. Shadow Foreign Secretary Lisa
Nandy joining us. Thank you we appreciate it.
And later in the show, the fashion industry has a long history with racism from the catwalk to the lack of diversity on magazine covers. We'll speak
to a fashion icon, the original 1980s supermodel Naomi Campbell about her own experience, and also her reaction to the death of George Floyd. She's
been outspoken about it. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
GORANI: Well, just a day after George Floyd was laid to rest in his home state of Texas, his brother is on Capitol Hill, pleading for police
accountability in the United States. He testified before the House Judiciary Committee last hour and emotionally called on Congress to not let
George Floyd's death be in vain.
Right now lawmakers are weighing a sweeping police reform proposal unveiled by Democrats earlier this week. Republicans are drafting a plan of their
own. George Floyd died in horrific circumstances. We all saw it unfold on camera.
At his funeral yesterday, speakers offered a clear message that a man known mainly to friends and family just a few short weeks ago is now a global
figure for change. Omar Jimenez has more from Houston, including an update on the police officer who pinned down Floyd under his knee.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New information saying the Former Minneapolis Police Officer charged with George Floyd's death was reportedly
negotiating a plea deal. Derek Chauvin, who pressed his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes, was in talks with the Hennepin County
Attorney's Office and the U.S. Attorney before his arrest in May, according to Minneapolis station KMSP.
This news coming out after a judge set bail for Chauvin at a minimum of a million dollars during a Monday hearing but for George Floyd, a home-going
service in Houston, Reverend Al Sharpton giving the eulogy and calling for justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVEREND AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: We're going to be back in Minneapolis when the trials start, because you may pack the police union on
one side, but the righteous is going to be on the other side of that courtroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Floyd's family, dressed in white, saying goodbye one last time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILONISE FLOYD, GOERGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: All I think about is when he was yelling for mama. I know who our mama is, she was right there, she's got
her hand wide open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Former Vice President Joe Biden who met with Floyd's family on Monday, sending a video message for comfort.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When there is justice for George Floyd, we will truly be on our way to racial justice in America. And then,
as you said, Gianna, your daddy will have changed the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: And through tears and frustration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILONISE: George, I love you and I thank God for him giving me my own personal superman.
LATONYA FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S SISTER: No more hate crimes, please. Someone said make America great again, but when has America ever been great?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: A celebration of life and a promise to keep fighting while protests continued in American cities for the second straight week. A
horse-drawn carriage carried Floyd for his final mile before he was laid to rest beside his beloved mother, the very same woman he cried out for before
he took his last breath. The somber procession as members of Floyd's community looked on honoring the man whose death sparked outrage and the
push for societal change.
GORANI: Omar Jimenez reporting. We'll have more on the death of George Floyd and the protest movement that it has sparked around the world a bit
later. An update though, on Coronavirus it's been almost three months since COVID-19 shut down normal life in America.
And a new CNN SSRS Poll shows people are about evenly split on whether they would be comfortable returning to their regular routines. Today a poll
shows a number of Americans disapprove on how President Trump is handling the outbreak. His approval ratings are recently down, but it's too soon to
reflect what the polls will reflect in November in fact it is too soon obviously.
There are still many months before Election Day. Meanwhile, the country's most famous infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, calls this
pandemic, "His worst nightmare". Speaking via video at a biotechnology convention, he said this virus is worse than even Ebola or HIV.
He said that both of those were scary, but that they were more local and not as easily transmitted. He said it was unexpected how rapidly COVID-19
would spread and that we still don't know what the long-term negative effects of this infection will be on those who survive it.
[11:35:00]
GORANI: Now, Russia has the third highest number of Coronavirus cases in the world, almost half a million only the U.S. and Brazil have more. But
somehow Russia's official death toll is just over 6,000. Officials in Moscow are declaring victory as the capital emerges from lockdown.
Our Matthew Chance spoke exclusively with Kremlin's long-time spokesperson to ask him some questions that people are raising about the accuracy of
those numbers. Here's Dmitri Peskov.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's accused of hiding the effects of Russia's Coronavirus pandemic of abandoning exhausted doctors to its
ravages, using the lockdown to crack down on dissent. But the Kremlin's Chief spokesman is now defending his country's Coronavirus response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Back in March, President Putin said the situation in Russia was under control, in fact, better than in other countries. But within a few
weeks, it had suffered the second highest number of Coronavirus infections in the world. What went wrong?
DIMTRI PESKOV, KREMLIN SPOKESMAN: Well actually, nothing went wrong except the Coronavirus itself. Our country uses the maximum possible amount of
tests for Coronavirus. And the more you test, the more you detect.
CHANCE: That's not just the number of viral infections, it the fact that the mortality rate as well is remarkably low, and it sort of added to this
suspicion that Russia has somehow been manipulating the facts, manipulating the figures, perhaps in order to prevent the Kremlin from being criticized.
PESKOV: I don't agree with that assessment. Have you ever thought about a possibility of Russia's health care system being more effective?
CHANCE: Is that your explanation?
PESKOV: Giving the opportunity for more people to stay alive?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: In fact, the strain on Russian health care has been one of the most alarming features of Russia's pandemic. Across the country, doctors
complaining of poor conditions, lack of personal protection equipment and unpaid wages.
There was even a spate of mysterious plunges of doctors out of high windows, perhaps a sign of desperation with their plight. There have been
protests, too, rare in Russia, but still worrying for the Kremlin as approval ratings for President Vladimir Putin sink to all-time lows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: How concerned are you that this pandemic has dented the popularity of President Putin, perhaps irreparably?
PESKOV: President Putin has stated numerous times that he didn't care about his personal state. In politics, if you're in real states you shouldn't
think about your rating, because if you think only about your rating, you won't be able to make responsible decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Decisions like when to ease restrictions? Despite a stubbornly high infection rate, Moscow is now lifting its lockdown along with a key public
vote to extend Vladimir Putin's rule. Maybe the Kremlin does care about ratings after all. Matthew Chance, CNN.
GORANI: Well, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, should all these statues honoring Britain's colonial past be removed? We'll ask
that question after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:40:00]
GORANI: The protest against racism in the U.S. has fronted a reexamination of what many consider a cinematic masterpiece. HBO Max has temporarily
pulled "Gone with the Wind" from the streaming services library.
The 1939 film takes place during the American Civil War and depicts a vision of slavery, African-Americans and the Southern United States in that
era. A spokesperson said the movie's racist depictions were, "Wrong then and are wrong today". Adding, it will return with a discussion of its
historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions. And "To do otherwise would be the same as claiming that these prejudices never
existed".
HBO Max, like CNN, is owned by Warner Media. There is a reckoning happening across the political and cultural spectrum both in the U.S. and around the
world. Here in the U.K. anger has turned toward statues of controversial historical figures, slave traders, people who profited from the colonial
British Empire.
To help explain why confronting the ugly moments of our past is so important? I'm joined by Historian and Presenter of the BBC True
Documentary Britain's forgotten slave owner David Olusoga he is in Bristol, England. Bristol, England David is of course where the statue of Edward
Colston was toppled by protesters and thrown right into the harbor.
What do you make of this George Floyd protest movement has spread through the U.K. and has prompted people to do things such as taking down statues
that should have come down for a long time?
DAVID OLUSOGA, HISTORIAN & BROADCASTER: Well, it is unexpected. The idea that this tragic and awful murder of George Floyd would be the capitalist
for these series of global events nobody could have predicted, but I think the reason it was possible is because things have been avoided.
Conversations that should have happened didn't happen and decisions that should have been made weren't made. So there was this backlog of decisions
that had to be made about how we're going to confront our past, and this has just become the spark lit that was already dry.
GORANI: So this just goes beyond statues. It has spread to, for instance, Little Britain, which is a very popular comedy series here in the U.K.
where some of the actors used blackface to portray characters and stereotypes of characters in Britain. Is that - I mean, do you think that's
the right move, to pull these series now?
OLUSOGA: Well, I think it's telling that a series is made in the 21st century that has blackface. That's because we in Britain has forgotten that
- was a transatlantic phenomenon born in the Americas in the 1830s. But always a feature of life in Britain, and in some ways it lasted longer in
Britain.
BBC had a program called "The black and White Minstrel Show" until the 1970s in Britain. So we've sort of that as off the hook in Britain because
what we've done is we've seen these racial tropes as being American, and we forgot our role in creating and perpetuating them. So the fact that the
platform has been made so easily says a lot about the fact that we've ignored confronted this history.
GORANI: What happens next? Is anything off limits, do you think? How do we decide what needs to be pulled, what needs to be re-contextualized, what
needs to be left alone?
OLUSOGA: I think we need to focus less on the objects and the artifacts and more on the conversation that's now happening. For a long time now, for my
entire life, black people have been saying that there were forms of racism that affect our lives that aren't recognized.
When we complain about them, when we identify them, when we point them out, we're accused of making problems that aren't really there. If anything, big
and seismic and unprecedented that's happening, those conversations are changing.
The thing which I find most remarkable about this moment is people are buying books, people are reading. People now have time to read because of
the effects of Coronavirus and people being in isolation.
[11:45:00]
OLUSOGA: And they are willing to accept that racism isn't the obvious overt forms of racism, violence, the use of racial slurs. It's actually systemic
and it's about the way we interact with ourselves, the way organizations and individuals talk.
And that willingness, that new eagerness to think about how racism is hardwired into our society, that is new. The statues are just the lightning
rod. The storm is this new debate about the nature of racism, and our willingness maybe to do something about it.
GORANI: And do you think this moment is different? And if so, why do you think it's different?
OLUSOGA: It feels different. I wouldn't have presumed it would be different the day I heard about the news of George Floyd's death. I presumed, like I
think most people did, that this would be another tragic and appalling killing of an African-American that would go the normal trajectory and that
no one would be brought to justice, trials would fall apart, and no jail time would come.
Something else utterly unpredictable has happened, and anybody who claims they saw this coming, I suspect they're being slightly ambitious there.
What happens next, who knows, but I think if there is one thing we might be able to say is that this might be about generations.
These demonstrations are being led by young people. These are young people, who know their history better than any generation of black people and their
allies, and they are animated by that history, and they're not willing to stand for the excuses and the obfuscations that my generation tolerated.
GORANI: It's different, but in some ways and in some small ways it's similar to #MeToo, in that all these insidious sexism that has kept women
down, where women had to laugh at jokes made at their own expense.
I've hear sometimes echoes of that when people of color describe how they too have had to kind of like you know pretend to be in on a joke that was
made at their expense and potentially a character like the one we saw in Little Britain in blackface, and that that would also be something that
people of color were very uncomfortable about.
But maybe the awareness among white populations wasn't there. So you're saying what's important is that we're having the conversation. After the
conversation, something needs to change. How do you get to actionable change here?
OLUSOGA: Well, I think we're seeing a newness to open ideas. I think we're seeing things that seemed impossible just two weeks ago happening. That
statue in Bristol has stood there since 1895, as long as I've lived in this city, which is more than two decades, people have been calling for it to be
removed and contextualized.
That happened it is not going back on the - I think that is pretty sure. Something that seemed intractable but I thought I would never see in my
lifetime has happened in an instant. That shows the power of this moment.
I think organizations and individuals, companies, corporations and governments are doing things that were impossible two weeks ago. So I think
we're feeling our way through this. We're discovering the limits of our willingness to make these changes, and those limits seem to be radically
different than the limits that were imposed two weeks ago.
Suddenly the will is there. So it's up to all of us how far we're going to take this? How willing we are to not just listen but to make changes, to
accept the things that we do as companies and individuals, even if we don't intend them to have that effect, damage the lives of normal white people? I
think it is very light the #MeToo movement it was unprecedented and people and institutions that seemed untouchable suddenly collapsed.
GORANI: It's true. Things don't change for a long time, and then all of a sudden, a lot changes in a very short period of time. David Olusoga, thank
you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your perspective on CNN today. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
GORANI: The killing of George Floyd has put a spotlight on racial injustices in the United States, and now many young Americans have been
sharing their own experiences with discrimination. Here's how some describe what it feels like to grow up black in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Growing up black in America is painful and oppressive. Every day I feel as though things are just not changing. I constantly see
people who look like me being murdered solely for the fact that they have melanin in their skin and they're afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish my black life mattered. I'm exhausted that I'm constantly fighting to prove my worth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm scared because not only do I have to worry about a global pandemic, now I have to worry about whether I'll be able to return
home from a job. You know, at first it was gangs, and that kind of died down, but now the biggest gang is the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eric Garner, Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd I have this constant fear that one day my name will be added to that list.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Growing up today black in America is to be exhausted, outraged and constantly defending my identity and my purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It means having to explain uncomfortable content and experiences of myself to white people in my predominantly white school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm grateful to live through this history because I know that things can only go up from here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I realized that my hair and my skin complexion make me who I am. It's what makes me beautiful. I refuse to let anybody
define who I am. Being black in America empowers yourself despite what's being thrown at you. You always have to be brave because you have to know
you have a community standing behind you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Growing up black in America is being aware that even in our times of bewilderment and diversity that we dig deep down and find our
strength and resiliency, for those things are rooted in the pain, the cries and the prayers of our ancestors. We are their wildest dreams.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: A sampling of voices of black Americans on what it's like to be young, black and live in the United States? Now, George Floyd's death is
just one in a long list of police killings of black Americans. There is no national database on cases like his, so it's responsible, really, to have a
true number of deaths.
But an analysis of the data that is available shows it happens in the U.S. far more than other developed countries. Martin Savage reports on three
more cases, and we must warn you, some of the images are very disturbing to watch.
MARTIN SAVAGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is all too horribly familiar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop resisting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVAGE: Even the dying words of the victims sound the same, but if you think you know these cases, you probably don't. March 28, 2019, Austin,
Texas Sheriff's deputies pursuing 40-year-old Javier Ambler. Police said Ambler had not dimmed his headlights as he drove past a deputy. And that
Ambler led them on a 22 minute chase when they drive to pull him over.
Body camera footage captures what happens during his arrest. Documents obtained by CNN reveal Ambler exited his car with his hands up. He was not
intoxicated or armed, according to the incident report.
Officers say Ambler resisted police attempts to restrain him and refused their commands. Ambler can be heard telling deputies he has a heart
condition. The officers teased Ambler multiple times, and the body camera video shows him going into distress. He is heard saying I can't breathe, in
the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVAGE: Shortly afterwards, officers realize Ambler is no longer responsive. They remove his handcuffs and administer CPR. Javier Ambler is
pronounced dead less than an hour later. A district attorney investigation into the incident is ongoing.
[11:55:00]
SAVAGE: The professional standard in the sheriff's office says the office acted in accordance with department guidelines.
February 29 this year in New Mexico. It begins as a traffic stop police say they learned after they stopped him that Antonio Valenzuela has an open
warrant for parole violation. According to the local district attorney's office which is investigation Valenzuela runs away, officers teased him
twice.
According to the district attorney on the ground, Valenzuela continues to struggle. One of the officers provides a chokehold referred to a vascular
neck restraint BNR. EMS is called on the scene to begin lifesaving measures, but is unsuccessful. The officer who used the neck restraint has
been charged with involuntary manslaughter. His lawyer did not immediately respond to CNN's request for comment.
May 23rd, Garden State Parkway, New Jersey 28-year-old Maurice Gordon was pulled over for speeding, according to the state attorney general's office,
which just released this video. When Gordon's car won't restart, the state trooper - tells him to stay in the police cruiser to stay out of traffic.
The officer offers Gordon a mask and the dash cam footage seems routine. Then Gordon unfastens his seat belt and appears to attempt to get out of
the car. The officer orders him back and a struggle begins.
According to the New Jersey Attorney General's Office which is reviewing the case, Gordon twice tried to get into the driver's seat of trooper
Wetzel's cruiser, the first time the officer used his pepper spray on Gordon then after a second attempt, another struggle and eventually six
gunshots.
Gordon collapses to the road and dies. We reached out to state trooper Wetzel. So far he hasn't responded back. Meanwhile the Governor of New
Jersey says the case will be going to a grand jury and they can determine whether or not to charge the trooper.
As to the death that occurred in Las Cruces, New Mexico, the attorney who represents the officer who applied that chokehold did get back to us and
defended his client, saying he was in the middle of a violent struggle at the time. We'll continue to follow these cases and the many others like
them. Martin Savage, CNN, Atlanta.
GORANI: Thanks to Martin Savage for that report. I'm Hala Gorani. Do stay with CNN a lot more after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
