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UAE Minister: Agreement With Israel Not About Iran; President Donald Trump: Was Set To Have Syria's Assad "Taken Out"; Rights Group: Greece Violates Human Rights Obligations; Congressional Report Lambasts Boeing And FAA For Numerous Failures Leading To Tow Deadly 737 Crashes; United Nations: The World Has Failed To Meet Goals Set In 2020; Attempt To Raffle Presidential Plane Goes Awry. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired September 16, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: And those of you who are just joining us our two of the show it is a very warm welcome to you. Well,
today people here in the UAE and Bahrain and Israel woke up to a new reality, normalized relations between the two Arab states and Israel.
It is an historic step forward and one year in the make, but will it lead to a wider regional peace? That hopeful sentiment expressed repeatedly on
Tuesday at the White House as leaders from those three nations, along with the U.S. President, signed accords orchestrated by the Trump
Administration. Here's some of what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: After decades of division and conflict, we mark the dawn of a new Middle East.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: This day is a pivot of history. It holds a new dawn of peace.
SHEIKH ABDULLAH BIN ZAYED AL NAHYAN, UAE FOREIGN MINISTER: Today's agreement is an important first step. And it is now incumbent on us to work
urgently and actively to bring about the lasting peace and security our people deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Palestinians have no such optimism. They call the accords a betrayal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANAN ASHRAWI, MEMBER, PLO EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE: Loss of land, loss of life, loss of resources, always being demolished, and Israel is super imposing
later Israel on historical Palestine while pretending to be engaged in peace talks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the peace accords do signal a major shift in the geopolitics of the region. Opening up avenues between Israel and Arab
states never before available but will they lead to a wider regional peace promised by Donald Trump?
Around the time of the ceremony, this was the scene along Israel's southern border. Israel's military says militants in Gaza fired 13 rockets into
Southern Israel. Two people were reported wounded, one seriously. Israel's military launched about ten airstrikes in response.
The skirmish another example that a true regional peace, including Israel and the Palestinians does seem a long way off. Well, Morgan Ortagus is the
Spokesman for the U.S. State Department and she joins me now. Thank you for joins me now from Washington Morgan, thank you very much for your time.
You called yesterday's agreement between UAE, Israel and Bahrain an incredibly historic moment that you will remember for a lifetime. Help our
viewers understand what the meaning of this deal is to the State Department, to the Trump Administration. What motivated it?
MORGAN ORTAGUS, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Thank you, Becky, for the opportunity to talk to you and your viewers about this. This is the
third administration that I've worked in, and many of us at the State Department have been working on these issues, a lot of us for our entire
careers.
And so to have the opportunity to see two Gulf Arab states normalize relations with the State of Israel is really - there's just a sense of
hopefulness, there is a sense of optimism. I will tell you I traveled to the region a lot with Secretary Pompeo, and when I'm in UAE and Bahrain,
I'm struck by the young leadership that exists in these countries.
I'm struck by the young people who are excited about thinking about their relationship with the State of Israel, and even the Israeli/Palestinian
relationship in a new way. We've had 30, 50 and 70 years of thinking about this conflict that hasn't brought about a permanent or lasting peace.
And I think everybody. No matter what side of the aisle you're on in Washington, hopes for these sorts of agreements to continue to move
forward. We hope for a permanent lasting peace between all of these countries and hopefully more to come.
ANDERSON: And this has been - let's be quite frank here, applauded on a bipartisan basis. I spoke to the UAE's Minister of State for Foreign
Affairs here about the deal. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANWAR GARGASH, UAE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: This is not, you know, an agreement about Iran. This is an agreement firstly about the UAE,
about the UAE's role and position in the world, and it's, secondly, about the Arab/Israeli theater and what can be done there and what messages to
send. This is not about Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: This is what Anwar Gargash told me. You have said that one of the President Trump's main policies is not to reward the State of Iran. As far
as the U.S. is concerned, is there an empty Iran alliance here?
ORTAGUS: Well, I think there's certainly an implicit one in the fact that we do share a common foe. There is probably not a state by any senior
leader in Iran. There is probably no speech or no media interview by any of them where they're not lambasting the State of Israel.
[11:05:00]
ORTAGUS: We know that they attack civilian airports through their proxies in UAE and in Saudi. You know that, just you reported on an extensively how
the Saudi oil infrastructure was taken offline through some of the bombings that were empowered by the Iranian regime's proxies throughout the region.
So this is a common foe, this is a common enemy and I think it speaks to the larger point Becky. Four years ago the beginning of this
administration, we took a different approach to the Middle East. We decided to embolden our allies in the Gulf States and in Israel, and to not reward
our enemy in the Islamic Republic of Iran with billions of dollars in sanctions relief.
So we believe that this is starting to paying off four years later, three and half years later. We are seeing a new Middle East, and I think that's
because we've taken a different approach.
ANDERSON: OK. I want all of you to just have a listen to what Donald Trump's son-in-law and Middle East Adviser Jared Kushner said yesterday
about the U.S. sending F-35 fighter jets to the UAE as part of this deal. Have a listen, Morgan.
ORTAGUS: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISER TO U.S. PRESIDENT TRUMP: It has nothing to do with the peace deal, but again, we have our relationship with the United
Arab Emirates. We fought together, I think, over four wars. They have got a tremendous military. They're right on the edge with Iran.
President Trump's Middle East strategy has really been about countering Iran's aggression. By sending F-35s to the United Arab Emirates, it
obviously strengthens our regional alliances and puts you know the biggest cause of instability on notice that we're moving serious attention to where
they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So this is Donald Trump's position. His State Department joined up on this, that the UAE should get those F-35s despite - let's be quite
clear - any potential Israeli objections at this point.
ORTAGUS: Well, we're working incredibly closely with the congress on this, with President Trump, as you mentioned. Obviously Secretary Pompeo is
aligned with him. We actually have our senior person here at the State Department Carl Cooper (ph) who is on the Hill today working with congress,
testifying before congress.
So this is going to be a comprehensive American decision, and I would just remind your viewers that we have had a comprehensive military relationship
with the UAE since the Gulf war. We've sold arms and equipments to them for quite a long time, so this relationship is not new, and this will be a very
close consultative approach with the congress and with the president.
ANDERSON: So what you're saying is that the sale would not affect the qualitative military edge, the QME, as it's known at this stage. Is that
what you're saying?
ORTAGUS: Well, we'll see it's an important that's the law of the land in the United States, and that law, of course, explicitly states that Israel
has to have the edge militarily in the region. So we were just in Israel, we were just in UAE and in Bahrain discussing this, so there will continue
to be ongoing discussions.
We're certainly going to respect that the law of the land which states that Israel does have to have that qualitative edge but saying that, it's not a
new thing for us to sell arms and equipment and airplanes to the UAE. We've been doing it for a long time.
ANDERSON: Morgan, what was the Israeli position when you were there with regard to this QME?
ORTAGUS: Well, I'm always careful to describe the private conversations between the Prime Minister and the Secretary, and so I think I'll leave it
at that, but just know that we're close allies, we're close friends. A lot of people in the congress are very close, and B.B. Netanyahu as well. So
this will be a pretty consultative project with all parties involved.
ANDERSON: The Palestinians calling these accords a betrayal. Have a listen to what a senior member of the PLO told me just ahead of the signing
yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHRAWI: The UAE and Bahrain have nothing to do with this bloodshed; they never had anything to do with wars. So let's not be this ingenuous because
and say their successes, they're not successes because if you ask the Jordanian people and the Egyptian people there haven't normalized.
A very few Egyptians have only come to Israel and Jordanians would not come to Israel. There are no normal human relations and interaction. What we
still want to do is normalize without needing actually to ask for anything in return because they want to help because they were made to help Trump
and his elections to be good leaders. Trump and Netanyahu both are in desperate need. Both are in trouble at home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: This is the position of the Palestinian leadership, your response?
ORTAGUS: Well, listen, we hope that they change their mind and decide to come to the negotiating table. Remember, when President Trump laid out his
vision for peace in the Middle East earlier this year in February, for the first time ever - ever - the Israelis agreed to a Palestinian state.
[11:10:00]
ORTAGUS: We very much here in the United States want the Palestinians to have a state, we want them to come to the negotiating table, that's why we
laid out the vision for peace in February that explicitly gave them the right and had Israel recognize the right for a Palestinian state.
So we do think this is incredibly important. We care about the Palestinian people. Unfortunately, some in the Palestinian leadership seem to be again
to be stuck in that decades-old way of thinking about the future for the Middle East.
I'm grateful that the leadership of UAE and Bahrain no longer think that way, and we hope more Arab states will come along with that and get them to
the negotiating table. That is the ultimate goal. We were proved yesterday it was proving yesterday that we can have new ways of thinking that we can
have new ways of doing business.
So our arms and our ears are wide open for the Palestinian leadership to come to the table, and we hope that we will begin to see that the Middle
East is changing. It's not the Middle East of 30 years ago. It's time to think and act differently and come to the table and do what's best for your
people, not for your own political adventurism.
ANDERSON: Let's be quite clear. We haven't sold Middle East conflicts overnight, but this was certainly an historic step.
ORTAGUS: That's right.
ANDERSON: And many, many people in the region, and indeed, around the world, have agreed to that and conceded to that if indeed they are Donald
Trump's critics. But Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Syria, these conflicts remain. Donald Trump said he had previously wanted to order the assassination of
the Syrian President Bashar Al Assad. This is what he told Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would have rather taken him out. I had him all set. Mattis didn't want to do it. Mattis was a highly overrated general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Was the U.S. President really ready to take out the leader of Syria?
ORTAGUS: Well, I think we certainly have to take the president at his word that that was something that was deliberated. I wasn't in the room for
that, but clearly that's something that he's been thinking about.
It's interesting, when you bring up the countries like Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, and you just look at the countries that have undue influence from
Iran, from the regime, and the condition that those countries are in versus the other countries in the region that are thriving.
So we know that Syria will continue to remain a challenge. We do still have a U.S. true presence there, and in Iraq even though General McKenzie noted
last week that we were drawing down by a few thousand troops in Iraq.
We're obviously working on a peace deal between the Taliban and the government of Afghanistan in Doha. So throughout the Middle East we are
perusing a peace agenda and we're going to continue our maximum economic pressure campaign against this Islamic Republic of Iran until they come to
the negotiating table. It's principally because so many of these areas that you mentioned where there are hotspots directly linked back to the various
influence from Iran.
ANDERSON: Let me just pressure on one point here because if you say that we should take Donald Trump at his word, that he was looking to take out the
leader of Syria, that would go against the Executive Order 11905, dating back to 1976, which states, and I have to just quote this here.
No employee of the United States government shall engage in or conspire to engage in political assassination. Would you go so far, therefore, to
condemn what Donald Trump clearly wanted to do?
ORTAGUS: Well, you know, listen, I'm not a lawyer so I would have to take a look at exactly the provision that you're referring to. I know that, for
example, when it comes to the case of Qassem Soleimani, for example he was a designated terrorist to the U.S. Government, so there is different ways
for the lawyers to look at the meaning of that.
So I don't think I have a full answer to - other than listen, you know we have to take the president as a word that he is serious whenever he says
that he is thinking about doing something he is serious about it.
And I think Qassem Soleimani is an Al-Baghdadi also another great example of when the president says he's going to take action, he does.
ANDERSON: Listen, you're invited back to this show as soon as you have been back and checked on that Executive Order, because I am fascinated to get an
answer from that.
ORTAGUS: Me, too.
ANDERSON: And thank you for working with me here. I do want to just press you on a couple of points here with regard wildfires. Of course, it's been
a headline not just in the U.S. but around the world. These wildfires are burning on the West Coast Hurricane Sally battering the East Coast.
Of course, your department heads up the office of global climate change. Donald Trump says the science doesn't all add up on climate change. Is that
the position of this State Department, that climate science remains ambiguous?
[11:15:00]
ORTAGUS: So Secretary Pompeo actually talks about this a lot in his speeches, and he often references the fact that the United States is one of
the only countries in the world to actually reduce our carbon missions it's something that we focus right here.
And in fact, I think that you'll hear Secretary Pompeo talking about that more. If you look at the largest polluters in the world like the Chinese
Communist Party, these are people that are part of the Paris Accords, yet here in the United States we're reducing our carbon emissions. And so I
think that you'll hear Secretary Pompeo talk about that a bit more in the coming days.
ANDERSON: Morgan Ortagus you've given us more than enough time I know you're busy, so thank you for joining us.
ORTAGUS: Happy to be on. Thank you.
ANDERSON: We're delighted to have you on and have you back any time. Thank you.
ORTAGUS: All right, thank you.
ANDERSON: Take a listen, what may sound like an attack from the thieves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He grabbed me from my neck and started hitting me. They put a knife to my husband's stomach, and they held a gun to my son's
head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, what that was, was actually migrants saying that they are treated like animals by countries that are supposed to protect them. Their
story is ahead. And we'll hear what Greece's Migration Minister has to say about those accusations and about the migrant crisis in his country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, Europe's shores are seeing some of the most horrifying scenes yet again. Washed-up bodies on beaches as desperate families make
dangerous journeys in search of a safe home. These scenes all too familiar, I'm sure, too many of you watching today except with a whole added other
devastating layer, a global pandemic.
How does Europe respond? Well, according to Turkey's coast guard who has rescued migrants, they say these migrants were pushed back out to sea and
left adrift by Greek authorities. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh was there for that rescue operation that you are looking at now and spoke to the migrants who
say their nightmare got worse when they were approached or they approached Greece's shores. Have a listen to this.
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the new pattern. A Greek Coast Guard wrestled right on the edge of Turkish waters. The crews
telling us they got information about a possible pushback incident, migrants and refugees possibly on a life raft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Greek ship is now moving toward its own waters is now fleeing towards Lesbos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARADSHEH: The Turk's mobilize for a sea rescue with the added risk of COVID-19. Now it's a race against time.
[11:20:00]
KARADSHEH: These waters have already claimed too many lives. They spot the motor less life raft drifting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take the rope. Take the rope. Grab the rope and don't let go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARADSHEH: One by one, they emerge 11 in total barely able to stand. Cold, wet and exhausted, they huddle together at the back of the boat. She says
you really don't want to know what they've done to us.
In shock, they recount how they made it to the Greek Island of Lesbos two days earlier, but they were caught by Greek authorities. They say their
belongings and money taken.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He grabbed me from my neck and started hitting me. They put a knife to my husband's stomach and they held a gun to my son's
head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARADSHEH: They were forced on a boat and abandoned at sea. Fatima (ph) says her family fled a hopeless Lebanon. They've tried to sea crossing five
times in the past six months. This was the first time they had reached Greek soil.
Human rights advocates in the United Nations refugee agency have documented many similar accounts since March watching dog groups accusing Greece of
violate human rights obligations by expelling asylum, secrets, at times leaving them adrift at sea for hours.
According to the Turkish coast guard, there have been close to 200 pushback incidents in 2020. They say they've rescued 6,500 men, women and children.
Iyak (ph), who is from Somalia, says that they were treated like animals.
Everyone we've spoken to here says that they don't want to try this trip again. Again they don't want try and go through Greece because of what they
went through. They're really shocked that this is how Europe deals with human beings.
In response to CNN's reporting, the Greek government denies that they're pushing back migrants and refugees. They say authorities are guarding the
borders according to the international rules of international law. They accuse Turkey of weaponizing the migrant issue at a time when immigration
is at the heart of a political storm in the EU.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew that Greece was part of the EU. I wanted to get to the EU, to Germany, to educate my children and live there. But if Greece
represents the EU, I don't want any of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARADSHEH: Definitely they say they will not be going back to Greece after what they've just gone through. These forced expulsions and push backs seem
to be morphing into the new norm, not only putting the most vulnerable at risk in treacherous waters, but also drowning out the values that Europe
claims to stand for. Jomana Karadsheh CNN, in the Northern Aegean.
ANDERSON: Well, the migrants and Turkey leveling serious accusations against Greece. Let's get a response from the country's Migration Minister,
Notis Mitarachi who joins us now and we appreciate your time, sir.
You just heard our CNN reporter there, the migrants telling our team that they were treated like animals by Greek authorities. In the past you have
said reports of these allegations are "Result of propaganda by illegal smuggling networks who are losing tens of millions of Euros". Sir, CNN was
there, reporting on it firsthand. Do you still stand by what you said in the past?
NOTIS MITARACHI, GREEK MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION & ASYLUM: Absolutely Greece fully respects international law. We currently have 95,000 asylum seekers
that are now on Greek soil, and we are processing their application in accordance with European International Legislation.
We have - I'm in the Island of Mytilene today. The Island of Lesbos where we have 12,000 migrants which are now homeless because their camp was
burned by six Afghani refugees who have been arrested now it is the responsibility of the Turkish coast guard, I need to tell you, under the
EU/Turkey joint statement of 2016 to prevent both leaving Turkish soil.
It is the responsibility of Turkish coast guard to prevent them crossing the European line. This is an agreement between the European Union and the
Republic of Turkey which needs to be followed. Greece is protecting the Greek and the European borders. We stand in the middle line and we operate
in accordance to their regulation.
ANDERSON: Sir, every human being has the right to at least seek safety, and I just want to go back to what was reported by Jomana, talking to migrants
who say they were pushed back from Greece by Greek coast guards and said that they had their belongings and money taken.
[11:25:00]
ANDERSON: One woman said she was grabbed by the neck, she was hit, and the coast guard here put a knife to her husband's stomach and held a gun to her
son's head. How do you respond to those allegations?
MITARACHI: This is absolutely not true. The - coast guard has saved tens of thousands of lives in the Mediterranean Sea in the last many years. They
fully respect life, and this year, I have to tell you, we have had record low fatal accidents thanks to the immediate response when there is a sea
break like what we've recently seen in - and other places where the Turkish authorities intervene with a certain rescue of the coast guard which saves
human lives.
Listen, Becky, it's very simple. The smugglers are losing tens of millions of Euros because Greece is protecting the European and Greek borders, both
at sea and the land borders. It is of course - obligation to do so and we do it in the appropriate and legal way.
Also it appears that these people in Turkey they are not Turkish, their peers are being supported by the Turkish authorities, they cooperate with
Turkish authorities and under the Geneva Convention, it appears like the Commissioner for migration Ylva Johansson recently said in the response
from parliament that they are in a safe place.
And the concept of refugees seeking asylum is moving from an unsafe place to a safe one. Here they seem to be in a safe place.
ANDERSON: So can I just press you before I move on--
MITARACHI: Please go ahead.
ANDERSON: How do you explain what these migrants told my colleague, Jomana Karadsheh, of the abuse by the Greek coast guard?
MITARACHI: I can't tell you what's behind the story. Maybe they started their trip and they couldn't get in the line because they saw that the
Greek coast guard that the Greek Navy was at the territorial waters and they came back, or their engine broke down or a million things could have
happened.
ANDERSON: In the last couple of hours, the President of the EU tweeting - the European Commission, tweeting next week we will put forward the new
pact on migration. She says we will take a human and humane approach.
Saving lives at sea is not optional and those countries who fulfill their legal and moral duties or are more exposed than others must be able to rely
on the solidarity of a whole EU. You have told me in the past that Greece can simply no longer cope and needs more from the EU. Is that sufficient,
what you are hearing from the commissioner today?
MITARACHI: We're just starting a long debate. The President of the European Council Charles Michel was here with us in Lesbos yesterday. There is a big
debate about the need to protect the common European borders, the need to do common returns for those not entitled to international protection.
The need for those that have been recognized as refugees to be allowed to move within the European Union as an evidence of solidarity. But also we
need to know that there have been times of crisis also, like the attempt of Turkey to weaponize the migration crisis end of February and using it as a
political tool.
So for Greece, migration has an absolutely humanitarian angle. We have had rapid response here in the Camp Moria which was burned and 12,000 people
were homeless, and within a very few days, we built a new camp with better condition than the previous one to make sure that everyone is provided
food, water and medical supplies especially at the time of the pandemic. So the humanitarian angle is an absolute priority for us.
ANDERSON: I understand that, and last time you spoke, you made that point, and we were discussing that fire at the Moria Camp in Lesbos. I'm sure you
are interested in those who are there, and their welfare, as I am.
You told me some 406 - hang on, sir, let me just make my point because it's important and I know you'll have an answer for me. Some 406 unaccompanied
minors were transferred to Athens, you told me. Where are they now, sir, what are their prospects?
MITARACHI: Two of them have been arrested for causing the fire, they have been taken to the - prosecuted today and four other people also from the
Afghan community in Moria are responsible according to police footage for causing the fire.
And the reason they caused the fire, it was to blackmail the Greek and other governments to move them out of Moria. When you come to a county and
you seek asylum, you are obliged to respect the laws of the country and also the lives of 12,000 others asylum seekers living next to you in a
camp.
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: What's the prospect for the camp and for Greece's ability to cope going forward?
MITARACHI: We are able to process more applications on arrival this year. We have processed 60,000 applications. So we are reducing substantially the
backlog. And we think by Easter next year there will be no backlog in any of the Greek Islands. Those entitled the international protection. They get
the resident status in Greece. They get travel documents as provided in the treaties.
The question remains, how do you deport back to the country of origin those not entitled to international protection? It's very critical for the
concept of refugees to be able to return both not being refugees, and that's where also countries of origin needs to be more cooperative with the
European Union.
ANDERSON: You've spoken to me twice in the last couple of weeks. It's so important that we hear your position and that you can be given an
opportunity to respond to some of what we've been reporting on and investigating.
MITARACHI: Thank you so much.
ANDERSON: So sir, thank you for joining us and I do believe we will speak again, and viewers, we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Let me give you an update on the vital search for a Coronavirus vaccine. The chief scientist for the World Health Organization warns that a
return to pre-COVID life might not be possible until at least 2022. That is when enough people will begin, will start being vaccinated and will begin
to build immunity she says.
She also says 60 to 70 percent of the population must have immunity, before there is a dramatic reduction in transmission. So how much is a vaccine
going to cost? Well, those in the United States for those there, possibly nothing. The health and human services officials say the goal is that no
American will have to pay a single dime.
You can, of course, stay with CNN online, on digital, for the very latest on the Coronavirus pandemic around the world, including the latest from the
W.H.O. and the race for a vaccine.
Just released, U.S. congressional investigation slams Boeing and the federal aviation administration for a culmination of failures in Boeing's
troubled 737 MAX jets.
[11:35:00]
ANDERSON: Report says problems were apparent for years before the Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air plane crashes which of course were over the past two
years. The eighteen month investigation says Boeing intentionally downplayed the significance of the floors in the MCAS computerized flight
control system that led to the deaths of 346 people.
The House Transportation Committee goes on to say, and I quote here "The facts laid out in this report document a disturbing pattern of technical
miscalculation and troubling management misjudgments made by Boeing. It illuminates numerous oversight lapses and accountability gaps by the FAA
that played a significant role in the 737 MAX crashes."
To help us explain this report and understand it a little more, I'm joined now by David Soucie, who was CNN's Aviation Safety Analyst, the former FAA
Inspector and the author of Malaysia airlines flight 370.
He is from Denver, Colorado via Skype and it is fascinating that you originally worked for - you have in the past worked for the FAA. It must be
very uncomfortable report for many there to read. There is a lot of blame to go around. Help us understand what this report tells us and how damning
a verdict this is, David?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION SAFETY ANALYST: What it tells me, having been with the FAA for as long as I was, what it tells me is that there is a
repeating cycle of this lack of oversight by the FAA. In 2002, there was a certification process study. I was on the team that did the response to
that study.
And within that study it said, very explicitly, that the problem with the oversight and the communication between the airline and the FAA needed to
be strengthened, and, indeed, it was in 2004.
But in 2012, it was all thrown out the window when in 2012 the FAA had a new certification process study that focuses on the ability to designate or
to delegate the safety authority and the inspections that needed to be done back to the manufacturers. This isn't just a Boeing issue this is an issue
with every manufacturer that the FAA has oversight over.
ANDERSON: In several critical instances, according to the report, Boeing withheld crucial information from the FAA, from its customers and from 737
MAX pilots. What sort of information was withheld, David?
SOUCIE: Well, the information about the MCAS, the system, which is the system that is still in operation even when the auto pilot is off. It
continues to control the ability for the pilot to respond to what's going on with the aircraft. Now, the fact that that was concealed is
unforgivable.
That is something that should have been done, it should have been revealed, but it also gives us a peek into something at a higher level, which is how
they were able to do that? Why was it that they could conceal that, and that's the thing that the FAA and this report really is focusing on, is
it's not just an individual manufacturer that made this mistake.
It's a systemic problem in that how could they actually be able to hide something of that significance in a technological environment like we are
now? Small things like that culminate into fatal catastrophes like we've seen here.
ANDERSON: Is there an endemic culture here at the FAA that can't be fixed, or at least is a long way from being fixed?
SOUCIE: You know, that's a really good question, because the fact is that in any safety culture, I've been studying safety cultures my entire life,
and some specialists, experts on this will say it takes 17 years to change a culture because that's how long it takes for that generation to pass
through and the next generation to come forward.
I'm very hopeful that the next generation, which I think is in place now with changes in management in Boeing and changes in management in the FAA.
I'm hopeful now that this next generation of overseers is going to understand the importance, particularly with the advancements in
technology. We'll be advancing into artificial intelligence.
We'll be advancing into a lot of different technologies that we don't even know about now. If we can't figure out how to oversee those and to predict
how they might interact with each other and communicate those things between the various agencies, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
ANDERSON: This report was 18 months in the making. David, very briefly, are we, as people who fly around the world, anybody watching this, you probably
aren't flying at the moment because of the pandemic. But I mean, when we get back to flying, are we any safer now from what is being learned or not?
[11:40:00]
SOUCIE: I think we are safer now. I think it's increased an awareness of the fact that this thing that went through the way that it did, everybody
is hypercritical right now about looking at things that they didn't look at before.
They have just gone from this idea of black and white or this gray culture to a black and white culture and they're much more aware of it right now.
And I think that it's, in my opinion, it would be a safer environment now because of the awareness.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. David, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us.
SOUCIE: All right. Thank you.
ANDERSON: Well, ahead on the show, the United Nations highlights the environmental goals that we did not meet over the last ten years. Sorry to
spoil the party here, but basically, it are all of them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: We are currently in the midst of an historic hurricane season in the U.S. This hour there is not one or two, but four storms strong enough
to be named churning in the Atlantic at the same time.
Earlier this week there were five, which has only happened once before in recorded history, and that was about a half a century ago. Right now all
eyes are on one, which is Hurricane Sally, and that is pummeling the U.S. Gulf Coast after making landfall as category 2 storms as it is known. It's
been downgraded to a category 1 now, but it's still a major threat to millions of Americans.
Widespread flooding is expected. Many areas are expected to see up to 50 centimeters of rain. So this new report will probably come as no surprise
to those in the eye of that storm. In 2010, leaders from 196 countries gathered in Japan.
They agreed on a ten-year plan with 20 goals designed to save the earth from the devastating effects of climate crisis which is being driven by
unsustainable production, by consumption and by population growth.
Well, the targets were ambitious, but crucial, conserving biodiversity, promoting sustainability, protecting eco-systems to name about a few. Well
a decade later, the deadline is upon us and sadly we all of us the whole world collectively has failed, not a single goal was achieved in its
entirety.
Senior International Correspondent Arwa Damon discovered the economic crisis literally from one end of the globe to the other. And she has been
through this report with a fine-tooth comb. Break it down for us, Arwa, if you will. As I understand it, there were some achievements. It wasn't all
bad news, correct?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Becky. There were some achievements, although, frankly speaking, it is well below the
bare expected minimum. Six of the targets were, according to this report, partially achieved.
[11:45:00]
DAMON: There are things like expansion of conservation areas, the eradication of invasive species, and better mobilization of resources and
so on. But the bottom line, as you mentioned there, is that none of these 20 laid-out goals were actually met. What does this mean in the bigger
picture?
It means that more species are at risk of being endangered. It means that more areas are being polluted. It means that - and we are all responsible
for this, that we are continuing to destroy the very ecosystem upon which we ourselves also rely for our very own survival.
If we just look at what's happening with the climate, those climate change goals, the goals with regards to reduction in carbon emissions, those
aren't really being met, either. This is what one climate scientist had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA LANDRUM, CLIMATE SCIENTIST: We often make predictions for weather given a climate boundary, if you will. We don't expect the weather to go
outside a certain boundary. But what we're doing is we're losing those boundaries, if you will, of what we expect in the arctic. And, granted, we
know some things.
We know that we have emissions, we know that the world is warming, we know that the Polar Regions are warming faster than lower latitudes, but we
can't use the most recent past, the data that we have, to predict the future as easily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: And that, Becky, is quite and should be disturbing. We cannot predict the future because we are entering into uncharted territory when it
comes to the impact that we, all of us, are having on this planet.
ANDERSON: I want our viewers to have a look at this clip from your trip to the Sargasso Sea last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: The Sargasso Sea in the North Atlantic is one of the world's five ocean garbage patches. From the surface it can look deceptively pristine.
But dive into the blue, look at all that. Each time we got into the water we found countless pieces of plastic, all different shapes and sizes.
Most plastic is not dumped directly into the ocean. Much of what you see has been discarded on land, traveling thousands of miles and breaking up
along the way.
ALEXANDRA GULICK, MARINE BIOLOGIST: These are like animals taking bites.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really, out of the plastic?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you can tell these are fish because they are little half circles.
DAMON: The Sargasso provides a habitat for baby turtles and fish, shrimp, plus hundreds of other marine organisms. In the oceans, degrading plastic
becomes even more poisonous as it binds with other man-made chemical pollutants. All that toxicity ends up in the digestive systems of marine
life and travels up the food chain, all the way to our dinner plates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Some terrific reporting there. Now, according to this latest report that we're just highlighting here, our pollution still very much a
problem, especially with plastics in our ocean. So, are we pretty much where we were back when you shot this? Have we seen any improvement?
DAMON: I mean, arguably, we're not just where we were, we're in an even worse situation because of all the waste that is being created because of
COVID-19, whether it's from, you know, the surgical masks to the extra medical gear, and then of course the plastic. Right now because of COVID-
19, everything is being wrapped in plastic.
When you go to the grocery store, you're seeing even more plastic being used than before, which goes back to the very core of the issues when it
comes to plastic, is that there aren't enough mechanisms in place to be able to properly recycle it, and we're not yet coming up with enough speed.
We're not yet coming up with alternatives to be able to do this.
Yes, of course, we need to protect ourselves against COVID-19 and the spread of it. But surely we can, given all of the resources that are
available to us, come up with different ways to try to do that.
ANDERSON: Arwa Damon on the story for you. Arwa, thank you. Coming up, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but it just wasn't working out. We'll
have more on Mexico's efforts to offload what is a very expensive presidential jet and more on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The nerve of some people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know forging a ticket. Come on. The golden ticket!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You found Wonka's last golden ticket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Great book, of course, which made a fantastic movie. Charlie got his golden ticket and the Chocolate Factory in the end, but it turns out
real life magical raffles aren't quite so easy. How do we know? Mexico had a dream raffle, or, rather, dream liner raffle of its own in mind. For
this, its presidential 787 jet plane, it costs an absolute fortune and it's so fancy, it looks like a flying palace.
It was so expensive that the new president wouldn't even fly in it. So we decided to do raffle it off, but it's not been plane failing by any means.
Matt Rivers has been following what is a very unusual saga that has captivated the country and left many wondering, where am I supposed to park
a plane? He joins us from Mexico City. Matt?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky, this has been a process going on for months, and officially this raffle was the raffle of the
presidential plane, but by the time this process wrapped up yesterday, the raffle wasn't actually technically, didn't have anything to do with the
plane. So if you are confused, that is understandable. Let us explain.
On Tuesday, as this tradition in Mexico, a group of kids read out the winning numbers for a lottery, except nothing was normal about this
lottery. This is the culmination of the saga of a presidential plane.
It started simple enough. In 2012, Mexico's government bought a roughly $220 million presidential plane. Critics said it was excessive, be it the
leather bound and extra wide seats, the king-size bed or the boardroom.
The current President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador toured the plane a few weeks ago and said his predecessors lived like kings. He has never used it
and has promised to sell it since taking office in late 2018, to no avail. So it was in January of this year he announced he would raffle off the
plane.
Anybody could simply buy a ticket, win, and the wide-bodied Boeing 777 would be all yours. That prompted questions. One, where would you park it
and what about the maintenance?
The president said we would offer the winner one or two years of maintenance. The raffle quickly became a national joke. The #Si Me Gano El
Avion, #ifiwontheplane went viral with means marking the contest. So the president changed tactics. The plane raffle would remain, but the price
wouldn't be the plane. Instead 100 winners would win about $1 million.
Despite these lines, the government has actually had troubles selling enough tickets to actually be able to pay out the prizes that they said
they would in fact it took them more than six months to sell the required amount of tickets.
The government over the summer turned the raffle into a call to help fight the pandemic. Any money that doesn't go to winners will go to public
hospitals.
[11:55:00]
RIVERS: This ticket buyer says I'm hoping if this helps the hospitals where so much COVID exists. But the latest sales data shows that there's only
about $5 million that won't get paid to the winners, or about enough for only a little more than 5 grand for each public health facility treating
COVID patients.
The government did give out roughly 1,000 raffle tickets to each of those hospitals. If they win, they can use the money to buy medical supplies, but
it's a lottery, not a budget allocation. Critics have long said, the public health system is chronically underfunded and the idea that this raffle can
substantively help is absurd, a mere distraction from the government's failings during the Coronovirus crisis.
Many in the country think that people should have spent their money elsewhere. This woman says, I don't know, maybe to people that aren't
working right now and don't have enough to eat. The winners of the lottery will be announced in the next few days. Here's hoping that some of the
Mexican hospitals entered in the contest to actually win. Meanwhile, if you are in the market for a 787, I've got an idea for you.
ANDERSON: What's that idea? What is the idea?
RIVERS: I mean, you know, I could bring you over to the Mexico City Airport, I could show you where the plane is parked in the hangar. Maybe if
you've got some spare change around, you can buy it. But Becky, the point I want to make and emphasize here is that, there is a thousand tickets,
roughly, that have been given out to those hospitals around the country.
That cost the government $25 million worth of taxpayer funds to secure those tickets. I followed one doctor on Twitter who asked the seemingly
very obvious question, why didn't they just give the $25 million directly to the hospitals? And when you think about it like that, it is very obvious
why so many are outraged in this country over what is seemingly an unnecessary PR stunt.
ANDERSON: Did you buy a ticket, yes or no?
RIVERS: Well, as a non-Mexican resident I could not have won the plane whether it was earlier or now, so no, I was a neutral journalist in this
particular situation.
ANDERSON: Matt's on the story for you. Thank you, sir your golden ticket viewers as ever an unlimited invitation to join us every day right here on
CNN. Thank you for being with us. Stay safe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
