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IED Attack at World War I Memorial in Saudi Arabia; U.S. Secretary of State Touts Second Trump Term; Nevada GOP, Trump Officials Allege Voting Fraud; Hong Kong Lawmakers Resign en Masse over Beijing Ruling; E.U. Buying 300 Million Doses of Pfizer Vaccine; Interview with Hanan Ashrawi, PLO Executive Committee, on the Legacy of Saeb Erekat; Danish Government Backtracks on Order to Cull Diseased Mink. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired November 11, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Becky Anderson.
Breaking news coming into us here at CNN. We have just learned there has been bloodshed at an Armistice Day memorial in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Saudi
state TV says the area is secure but several people have been wounded in an IED attack at a cemetery for non-Muslims.
As we wait for American President Trump to observe Veterans Day at Arlington National Cemetery, that is coming up. Our senior international
correspondent Sam Kiley has the very latest on that Jeddah attack.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We know that just in the last few hours or minutes, rather, the governor of Jeddah has been to
visit the wounded in a local hospital. We are hoping to get pictures out of that fairly soon.
But a confirmation that there were injured people at this ceremony, a extremely predictable event, the 11th on the 11th day of the 11th month is
always going to be marked by an international showing.
And that is exactly what happened on this occasion. We understand that this IED was detonated, according to an eyewitness, who spoke to our CNN
affiliate, BFM Television in France, an eyewitness there said that they saw an explosion, saw the smoke and ran away in the street because they're
fearful of a second explosion, indicating, sadly, how familiar people are with how to react to what clearly is some kind of a terrorist attack.
The Saudi authorities have not come forward to say how many people were wounded. The French, though, have been swift to condemn it.
This was an event attended by French, German, British and American citizens and diplomats marking the end of World War I in a memorial site in the
center -- or rather on the outskirts -- of Jeddah.
The French issued a statement saying that France strongly condemns this cowardly act, which is unjustifiable.
It went on to say "We call on the Saudi authorities to shed light on this attack and to identify and prosecute the perpetrators."
The eyewitness speaking on the French TV station said that he had seen this explosion happen when the French consul general was speaking. It was just a
couple of weeks ago where the Saudis arrested a knife-wielding person, who attacked a guard at the French embassy in Jeddah in response, it is
understood, or believed to be part of a wave of protests and attacks against French sites following Mr. Macron, the French president's
condemnation, of what he sees as some of the intolerant elements within extremist Islam, which led, of course, to the beheading of Monsieur Paty,
the French teacher, some weeks ago in Paris.
Following that there have been a number of these sorts of incidents around the world. But this was very troubling for the Saudi authorities, who
really believe they have something of a grip on extremist activity, particularly inside the kingdom -- Becky.
ANDERSON: This was the second attack in Jeddah in two weeks. A man arrested on October the 29th after attacking a guard at Jeddah's French
consulate with what is described as a sharp tool.
As you speak, we are just getting images into CNN of the Jeddah governor visiting wounded in a hospital after the attack.
As you say, we are still trying to source more information about exactly who was described and how many were wounded, correct?
KILEY: Yes, absolutely, Becky; that is unclear at the moment. This is a breaking story. Of course, the authorities will be dealing with the -- what
they must assume will always be a persistent security threat.
We understand from eyewitnesses on the ground and Saudi state TV that the area where this occurred has been secured. But it is safe to assume that it
would have been secured in advance of this event.
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KILEY: This is an event in which foreign dignitaries would have been known to attend, one would assume, at any rate -- I'm sure the Saudis are pretty
efficient at this stuff -- would have swept the area or tried to have swept the area for exactly this sort of device.
We don't know, for example, whether or not it was tossed into the environment, thrown into the environment or whether or not it was planted
there and detonated remotely.
If it was the latter, it will be deeply embarrassing for the Saudi authorities because that will represent an unforgivable breach in security
protocols because we are, sadly, in an environment in which these predicted events are routinely swept right across the world against these activities.
A lone wolf, so-called, though, with some kind of pipe bomb, much, much harder to prevent and predict. So that will clearly be something that the
Saudis will be investigating and, equally, of course, they will be very anxiously making sure that the wounded do not deteriorate in their
condition.
So far we have had no reports at all of any fatalities, Becky.
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley reporting as we look at images of the Jeddah governor visiting wounded in hospital after an attack on a cemetery there, a non-
Muslim cemetery, a cemetery which dates back, as I understand it, some 200 years, diplomatic missions often visiting that site.
We are going to leave that there for the time being; as we get more we will, of course, bring it to you.
As we mentioned this hour, we will see Donald Trump make his first official appearance since losing an election that he won't concede. What happens
about 45 minutes from now when he heads to a Veterans Day ceremony at nearby Arlington National Cemetery.
A man who defeated him, President-Elect Joe Biden, keeping a very cool head about him, even as the president and his allies refuse to help smooth over
the transition into power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are already beginning the transition. We're well underway. And the ability for the
administration in any way by failure to recognize this -- our win does not change the dynamic at all and what we're able to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Yet the fact is many Republicans just won't accept or even admit that Joe Biden won. Listen to what the secretary of state Mike Pompeo had
to say. See what you make of this.
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QUESTION: Is the State Department currently preparing to engage with the Biden transition team and, if not, at what point does it delay or hamper a
smooth transition or pose a risk to national security?
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.
All right, we're ready. The world is watching what's taking place. We're going to count all the votes. When the process is complete, there will be
electors selected, there is a process. The Constitution lays it out pretty clearly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, if he was joking, quite frankly it wasn't very funny and it bears repeating there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Let's
bring in our White House correspondent John Harwood, who has watched American presidents come and go for decades.
And this one it seems won't go, not yet at least, John. In a FOX News interview on Tuesday evening, Donald Trump's secretary of state Mike Pompeo
slightly softened his tone from his earlier remarks. I just want you to have a listen to this.
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POMPEO: We will have a smooth transition and we will see what the people ultimately decided when all the votes have been cast. We have a process,
Bret. The Constitution lays out how electors vote. It's a very detailed process laid out.
We need to comply with all of that and then I am very confident that we will have a good transition, that we will make sure that, whoever is in
office on noon on January 20th, has all the tools readily available so that we don't skip a beat with the capacity to keep Americans safe. That's what
I was speaking to today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Mike Pompeo, John.
What do you make of that?
HARWOOD: Look, Becky, I think Mike Pompeo thought he was telling a joke, making light of a difficult situation and trying to indicate that nobody
should worry about it. But as you indicated, it's not a funny joke and it is a reflection of the way the president commands the deference of people
like Mike Pompeo; of Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader.
They are all playing along with this fantasy, this charade, that there is still doubt about the election. There is not. Joe Biden has won the
election. There was not widespread fraud.
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HARWOOD: That is plain. Joe Biden won a clear national majority and more than enough electoral votes to win. And the president is not a particularly
psychologically healthy person. He is struggling with the humiliation of having been defeated. And Republicans are playing along for various
reasons: fear of him, their own future ambition; Mike Pompeo, for example, wants to run for president himself.
ANDERSON: 2024 is just around the corner. John, thank you.
Your White House correspondent John Harwood in the house.
We've been talking about those bogus voter fraud claims. I want to show you what we mean when we say there is nothing in them. Let's zoom into Nevada,
Biden ahead there by 37,000 votes and CNN projects he will win it, although they are still counting ballots.
The state's Republican Party, along with the Trump campaign, both questioning the counting process. It is a familiar pattern. Claims, yes;
evidence to back up those claims, nothing. So we set my colleague Dan Simon on the case. He tracked down two people identified as fraudulent voters.
Have a listen to this.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST (voice-over): In Nevada right now --
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the election results first came in and the race grew tight in Nevada, Trump officials made wild
accusations that thousands of people who had moved out of the state had fraudulently cast their votes, potentially swinging the race to Biden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are also confident that there are thousands of people whose votes have been counted that have moved out of Clark County in
the -- during the pandemic.
SIMON (voice-over): The alleged proof from Nevada Republicans, a change of address database that publicly lists zip codes of where 3,000 or so voters
currently and previously lived.
For instance, vote cast record 337 shows a voter who previously lived in Henderson, Nevada, but is now in Davis, California. By the GOP's logic,
that person would be ineligible to vote. The problem is, this woman says she's that voter 337.
AMY ROSE, NEVADA VOTER: When I first saw that we were on the list, frankly, I was just very shocked.
SIMON (voice-over): And she's far from a fraudulent voter.
SIMON: If the Trump campaign officials are listening, anything you want to say to them?
ROSE: I think that they should understand that the actions that they're taking are harmful to America. This is harmful to our Democratic process. I
think that these types of accusations, made without any basis in fact, are really just shocking and appalling.
SIMON (voice-over): Amy Rose is a military spouse. Her husband is active duty in the Air Force, stationed at Travis Air Force Base in California.
But under federal and state laws, they're still permanent Nevada residents, making them eligible to vote there in the 2020 election. She says she
easily found herself on the list.
ROSE: I just searched for where we live now and I found our city and it matched our zip code, it matched our four code, which is the four code
indicates a very small one block or so radius. And that matched up with where we moved from in Nevada. So put two and two together and realized it
was myself and my husband.
SIMON (voice-over): Even a cursory glance at the list, you can see hundreds of other entries using APO, meaning Army Post Office; AFB for Air
Force Base or JB for Joint Base.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My home of record is in Nevada. I still own a house in Nevada, my license plates are Nevada, I pay Nevada property tax.
SIMON (voice-over): Stephanie, who does not want her last name used, says she is also on the list, number 464. She and her husband, who have spent 12
years in the military, live in the Washington, D.C., area. He is a major and pilot in the Air Force although Las Vegas is their permanent home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband fights for his country. He has offered to pay the ultimate sacrifice and I stand alongside him. And now my own vote
is called into question without any sort of legitimacy.
SIMON: Anything you want to say to these Nevada GOP officials, who put this list together?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys have got to do better. You've got to do better.
SIMON: Again, there appear to be hundreds of zip codes on that list that correlate to military bases. Other people could be students away at college
but still eligible to vote in Nevada.
We did get a statement from the Trump campaign, it reads in part, "We have referred a list of people who voted in Nevada's election, yet have moved
out of the state, to the Department of Justice and local election authorities.
"We have no way to confirm whether a small number of these voters fall under an exemption, which is why we referred it to the authorities for
further investigation."
We should also point out that, right now, Joe Biden's lead in Nevada stands at approximately 37,000 votes. So this list of 3,000 or so people is a moot
point anyway. But the fact that there are so many military families on that list just highlights the utter recklessness of those allegations -- Dan
Simon, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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ANDERSON: Fascinating.
The transition, awkward as it may be, has ramifications far beyond America's borders. Democratic senator on the Committee for Foreign
Relations Chris Murphy told me on this program yesterday that Donald Trump's refusal to concede defeat puts a whole lot at risk. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT), MEMBER, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: It could provide an opening for countries like China or Russia, Turkey, North Korea
to make moves during this interregnum period because of their belief that the president won't respond.
I think about what China may do in Hong Kong, what they may be contemplating doing with respect to Taiwan. And their hope may be that
President Trump will be unable to respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That was Chris Murphy speaking to me yesterday. Those words have gone on to feel very pertinent. In fact, we are watching them play out.
Just hours ago, Beijing passing a resolution, giving local authorities broad new powers to quash dissent in Hong Kong.
It led to the immediate disqualification of four legislators. In turn, the entirety of Hong Kong's elected pro-democracy opposition resigned.
Ivan Watson is in the city to explain exactly what's happening and why, Ivan, it is so hugely significant.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's dramatic. It seems that the space for organized political opposition in Hong Kong
just got dramatically smaller, with the Chinese central government passing this resolution, granting Hong Kong's chief executive, a hand-picked
Beijing appointee, the power to strip any elected lawmaker of their seat for essentially not being patriotic enough.
For example, some of the reasons could be for not pledging allegiance to China; for refusing to recognize China's sovereignty over Hong Kong; for
soliciting foreign intervention or a more broad area for carrying out other activities, endangering national security.
Now shortly after being granted this power, Hong Kong's chief executive Carrie Lam stripped four opposition pro-democracy lawmakers of their seats
and this is how she justified it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARRIE LAM, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE (through translator): To sum up, what we need to deal with at the moment is that there are four legislators
who have been deemed in accordance by the law to not genuinely swear to uphold the basic law and not genuinely pleading their allegiance to Hong
Kong as they are.
We have doubts about their -- their ability to perform their duties. If they are unable to uphold the basic law and to support the Hong Kong as
they are, of course, they are not qualified to be legislators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Becky, the disbarred lawmakers have no legal recourse; they cannot appeal this decision in court.
ANDERSON: In a show of force, of course, Ivan, all Hong Kong pro-democracy lawmakers quit after these four members were ousted.
What have they said and what does this mean for the future of Hong Kong's democracy?
WATSON: That's right. The remaining 15 opposition lawmakers, they announced they would be resigning en masse in solidarity with their
colleagues and in protest against what they say is yet another example of Beijing encroaching on what is supposed to be Hong Kong's autonomy and
democratic freedoms.
Listen to what one of those lawmakers had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAUDIA MO, HONG KONG LEGISLATOR: This act of resignation is not just in protest against Beijing's rule by decree; it's no longer rule of law, it's
not even rule by law. It's rule by decree. And, of course, we are also doing this in support of our four ousted colleagues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: Now, Becky, please put this in context. Over the summer, the Hong Kong authorities postponed elections for this legislative body that were
supposed to take place in September by a year on public health grounds, citing the pandemic.
We've also seen a growing number of opposition activists and now journalists, who are critical of the government, who are being prosecuted
under a variety of different charges, prompting some activists to actually flee and seek asylum overseas.
[10:20:00]
WATSON: Street protests, which were once kind of a hallmark of Hong Kong political life, are very quickly snuffed by riot police.
And then, of course, we have the basic law that Beijing rammed through in Hong Kong over the summer, which dramatically expanded Chinese security
forces' powers to investigate charge and prosecute people here in Hong Kong.
The British foreign secretary has protested this, saying this is another example of Hong Kong's democratic freedoms being eroded. Meanwhile, the
Chinese foreign ministry bristles at any foreign criticism charging that that is interference in Hong Kong and China's internal affairs -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Ivan Watson on the story and with the context there, thank you.
From Hong Kong to the Middle East to the dual crises gripping the United States. We are, of course, connecting you to the most important stories of
the day across the globe, including the U.S. state of Texas recording its 1 millionth coronavirus case and now in desperate need.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has also asked that we started looking for an actual brick and mortar situation that has refrigeration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's purely because you have so many bodies stacking up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
ANDERSON (voice-over): We're going to take you to El Paso in Texas where officials are looking for extra storage because the morgues are full.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Then --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If this program works, the idea is to roll it out across the country. People could get tested regularly, normal life could
resume. But here is the catch --
ANDERSON (voice-over): Liverpool takes on city-wide COVID-19 testing. Why some residents say they won't take part. That's coming up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And earlier today, people paid their respects to the Palestinian leader Saeb Erekat. His close confidante, Hanan Ashrawi, attended the
funeral and will join us later in the hour.
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ANDERSON: Europe is rolling out plans to buy and distribute a new coronavirus vaccine from Pfizer, which they claim is some -- that's Pfizer
-- claim is some 90 percent effective. That would be astonishing. Just hours ago the E.U. announcing it's authorized a contract for hundreds of
millions of doses to distribute across the region. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VAN DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: In the past month the European Commission has been working tirelessly to secure doses of
potential vaccines.
We authorized a contract for up to 300 million doses of vaccine developed by BioNTech and Pfizer. This is the most promising vaccine so far. Once
this vaccine becomes available our plan is to deploy it quickly everywhere in Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:25:00]
ANDERSON: As desperate as we all are to get a vaccine and finally be rid of this pandemic, it won't be mandatory to take one in the U.K., for
example, which has suffered tremendously in both cases and indeed in deaths.
Instead the government reckons it's developing its own secret weapon to battle COVID-19, population-wide testing. The first city to take part is
Liverpool, which you will remember went into a difficult showdown with London just weeks ago, trying to stay out of lockdown. Let's bring in CNN's
Salma Abdelaziz.
A tale of two cities.
What's going on?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: Everyone is hoping, waiting, wishing for that vaccine to come through. But the prime minister has already warned it
is very early days.
He said to the country, the worst thing we can do right now is to loosen our grip on this virus and, of course, he's referring to the second wave
that is hitting this country and may prove to be deadlier than the first.
Matt Hancock, the health secretary briefed members of Parliament yesterday about this new vaccine, saying he wants the NHS to be ready December 1st
but there is no guarantee.
Meanwhile the government says what it's going to do to battle this pandemic is testing. If everybody can go out, get a test for free, if it's readily
accessible, maybe normal life can resume. Take a look at how it's played out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Imagine a world with no lockdowns. No social distancing. No restrictions. This is the British government's bold new
vision and it all starts here in Liverpool. With a citywide coronavirus testing program. It is a twofold experiment. First, to get as many
residents as possible tested in the 2-week window.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard about the testing and thought it was a good idea.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): And second, to try out a new rapid test that could save precious lab capacity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's one of the best things Liverpool has ever done for the public, you know.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): The scale is massive. Some 2,000 troops are on hand to help thousands of tests per day. Mayor Joe Anderson says the
initiative is critical to his city's fight against the virus.
MAYOR JOE ANDERSON, LIVERPOOL, ENGLAND: We're facing tough times, so my message to everybody in the city is let's show we can do this and we can
bring the rates of the virus down and stop people from dying in our hospitals.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Liverpool was selected because it has one of the highest rates of coronavirus deaths in England.
ABDELAZIZ: If this program works, the idea is to roll it out across the country. People could get tested regularly. Normal life could resume. But
here is the catch: everyone here is a volunteer. This is not mandatory.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Away from the long lines, we meet a very conflicted Paul Freeman-Powell at his home.
PAUL FREEMAN-POWELL, LIVERPOOL RESIDENT: What concerns me is that if you go for a test and then you test positive, then you potentially have two
weeks off work when you're not able to earn anything as a result.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Those on low incomes can access a small amount of financial support but this father of three says that, even if he qualified,
it's simply not enough.
FREEMAN-POWELL: It's not a clear cut black and white scenario because, on the one hand, you want to do what's best but then you've got to make ends
meet.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): To defeat the virus through mass texting will require mass participation and even more personal sacrifice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ: So we're about six days into this program now, it started last Friday. So far 23,000 tests have been administered. The population of
Liverpool is about half a million. So this is really a far cry from the idea of testing everyone that the prime minister had established -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
That's the story in the U.K. Meantime, as we reported, the E.U. sets its sights on that Pfizer vaccine. We speak to a key player in the European
Parliament. Stay with us as we hear from the German MEP chair of the European Parliament's committee on foreign affairs, David McAllister.
Coming up this hour, COVID caused Denmark to order its fur farmers to kill millions of mink because of a mutation in the virus. Well, now the
government is backtracking and apologizing. We will tell you why just ahead.
First up, though, PLO member Hanan Ashrawi talks to me about the passing of Saeb Erekat and what a Biden presidency may mean for the Palestinians and
for the Middle East.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): People today morning the loss of Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator and PLO secretary-general. His memorial
service held at presidential compound in Ramallah with full military honors ahead of his funeral. His body was later met by mourners at his home in
Jericho.
Elliott Gotkine joins us from Jericho -- Elliott.
ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, yes, I'm outside the home of Saeb Erekat in his hometown of Jericho where we saw mourners gathering
today. At age 65, he was the Palestinians' chief negotiator for almost half of his life, the last month of which he spent battling coronavirus.
He lost that fight but his battle for an independent Palestine remains very much alive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOTKINE (voice-over): Mourned like an international statesman, remembered for his indefatigability, Saeb Erekat was given full military honors, borne
aloft the shoulders of six presidential guards. His casket, draped in the Palestinian flag and a keffiyeh, the scarf popularized by PLO founder
Yasser Arafat, who died 16 years ago on this day.
Bidding him farewell the current Palestinian Authority leadership, including its president, Mahmoud Abbas.
It was a fitting and symbolic tribute to one of the most important and recognizable faces of the Palestinians, a man Abbas eulogized as a great
fighter and son of Palestine.
At his home in Jericho, mourners gathered to receive him, remembering a man who never dropped dreaming of a independent Palestine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Erekat is a loss. All Palestinian people. He sacrificed all his life to Palestine. He never lived for himself
and, whether the people agree with him or not, he was always there to listen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He was a very effective person that knew how to reflect our Palestinian cause to the whole world. He made
sure to keep the eyes of everyone opened on what's happening in Palestine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Everyone was important to Dr. Saeb, simple people, farmers, women, everyone. He was our teacher. He
strongly defended our rights. When he was negotiating, he was like an encyclopedia that knew every little detail.
GOTKINE (voice-over): From Erekat's home, hundreds of mourners made their way to a local mosque for prayers and then a funeral.
As coronavirus took its toll, Erekat told one former Israeli interlocutor, "I'm not finished with what I was born to do."
[10:35:00]
GOTKINE: Now he's gone it will fall to someone else to try to fulfill what Erekat described as his destiny. They are big shoes to fill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOTKINE: And although the last four years of Erekat's life may have seen more setbacks than progress in the two-state solution that he fought for,
Palestinians will today be hoping that that will soon change once President-Elect Joe Biden takes office. Becky?
ANDERSON: Elliott, thank you for that.
Our next guest, Hanan Ashrawi, was a close confidante of the late Palestinian negotiator, working very closer with Saeb Erekat on a number of
Palestinian causes over the years. You can see them here together in Washington, next to Madeleine Albright, more than 20 years ago.
Hanan is a member of the PLO's executive committee. She was at the funeral just earlier, paying her respects and I'm delighted to say she has made
time to join us today from Ramallah.
Han, thank you, a very sad time. Your memories of Saeb, if you will.
HANAN ASHRAWI, PLO EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE: Well, it's been a very long relationship, it started more than 40 years ago almost, in the 1980s, when
we were both academics. But I was also a very strong activist and we were working in terms of resistance.
And so in many ways it's a multi-faceted relationship that was made up of activism, academic work as well as political work, as well as negotiations.
And somehow it maintained a momentum.
Saeb was a man with total dedication, with total immersion in national causes. It's not just his negotiations; people think of him as a
negotiator. But in a variety of ways, to him, Palestine was a way of life. It was an obsession, a dedication, he was a passionate patriot and,
therefore, every aspect of his life had to do with Palestine, had to do with ending this conflict.
And he kept repeating the one line that got him friends and enemies at the same time, which is that two-state solution, '67 boundaries, Jerusalem as
capital and that's it. So he was unwavering, dedicated, almost obsessive and, at the same time, inclusive.
He was a man of the people and he knew that he was accountable by the people and he knew he had to explain to people his positions and, at the
same time, he knew that he had to reach out to the rest of the world and present a Palestinian narrative and a Palestinian argument that wasn't
always very easy to present, given all the odds against us.
ANDERSON: Sure. Hanan, there will be those who say he was controversial, not least within his own people. But you make some very good points about
his immersion in the Palestinian cause.
I do, though, want to talk to you about his negotiating skills because, of course, you know, they were preeminent. And so many people around the world
will remember Saeb for those.
In the wake of his death, you tweeted that his passing is a, quote, "significant transition in Palestinian history and reality."
And Erekat himself once famously said, "Who will be the Palestinian in the next 1,000 years, looking at my experience and what we've done?
"And who will be willing to sit with the Israelis at the table?"
Hanan, will there be another Palestinian willing to do that, now that Saeb Erekat is gone?
ASHRAWI: It's not the method of personal choice; it's not the method of individuals who will be willing to sit, it is the question of conditions
for negotiations. After all, negotiations are a means and not an end.
And if you want to achieve a negotiated settlement, to which Saeb was totally committed, then you have to have the proper conditions, the terms
of reference, the clear objectives, not just a peace process but that incremental process that would lead to the end of the occupation and so on.
It's unfortunate but many people associate Saeb with their failures or successes but mainly failures of negotiations. They fail to see that it
Israeli intransigence and occupation. It was American bias and total support of Israeli criminality that destroyed the chances of peace.
And with the last four years of the Trump administration, it was an unmitigated disaster. There was no way in which you could achieve any kind
of peace, given the criminality of Israel and given collusion by the U.S. and given unilateral, illegal steps by the Trump administration that
destroyed the very foundations of it. So blaming --
[10:40:00]
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: And Saeb Erekat himself described the Trump administration's policies as, quote, "setting Palestinians and Israelis back some 50 years."
I spoke to him earlier this year, Hanan, and after the so-called "deal of the century" was announced at the White House and I asked him what he
thought would happen next. This was back in January. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: What will happen next, Becky, is that there will be a unanimous Arab decision to reject this fraud and
this so-called deal and to reiterate (ph) our position as Arabs in our countries in unanimity of the two-state solution and the 1967 line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Of course, what actually happened was three Arab states normalized relations with Israel; more may follow, not least the Saudis. As
I say, he described this administration's policies as setting the Israelis and the Palestinians back by 50 years.
I think it would be fair to say, although I know you're going to argue with me on this, that the Palestinian leadership has been a loss as to how to
respond to this sort of wave of normalization.
ASHRAWI: No, actually we did talk about this, you and I, Becky, earlier. You're normalizing the abnormal. You are normalizing the occupation,
you're normalizing impunity, you're normalizing land theft, you're normalizing expansionism and, of course, defying and violating
international law.
This is not what is needed because, by normalizing some Arab countries under coercion, by the way, and the U.S. used tremendous threats and
blackmail and you were to really put pressure on countries that were in need of the U.S.
And so it used that to deliver not just trying to deliver Palestine to Israel but trying to deliver the Arab world and the region to Israel and to
reposition Israel as a major force in the region.
The American administration, Trump in particular, seemed to be working for Netanyahu and for the most extreme right-wing government in Israel and was
putting pressure -- look, American officials were scurrying all over the region, trying to deliver --
ANDERSON: Sure.
ASHRAWI: -- change to Israel before elections. They didn't succeed, of course.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Let's just -- let's look forward here because there is a new leadership in the United States, whether or not Donald Trump, you know,
wants to concede at this point or not, there will be a new administration on January 20th, a leadership that, you said would not be a savior for the
Palestinians.
I wonder why you believe that.
And it has to be said, you know, there will be even Palestinians watching this who say, you know, is it going to take another generation of
leadership before we get a win out of this?
ASHRAWI: Look, Becky, you're absolutely right. I think the damage that has been done by the Trump administration is extremely serious and has been
extremely corrosive. Right now, the mere fact of ending the Trump era is extremely significant.
Palestinians, ordinary people on the street, are just delighted that they don't have to deal with Trump anymore or the Trump plan or Trump populism
and racism and xenophobia and Islamophobia and anti-Semitism and misogyny.
These are things that just go against the grain and against human decency. So now people are delighted that this is over. That's one.
But you cannot talk about going back to the status quo empty (ph). If the Democrats think that they can repeat the mistakes of the past and they can
do the mainstream business as usual, with all the refrains of "let's deliver to Israel what Israel needs in order to persuade Israel to
negotiate" or "let's support Israel and there is no daylight between us and Israel" and so on, they will fail again.
If they start picking up all the same old faces and tired people who were responsible for failure, they will fail again. They have to understand
there's a new vision, a new language. Palestine is part of the conversation. Palestine is part of the human right rule of law,
multilateral conversation.
We are part of this new emerging global reality that says, you cannot live on injustice and impunity and treat people with differences --
ANDERSON: All right.
ASHRAWI: So that has to be --
ANDERSON: Hanan --
ASHRAWI: Yes.
ANDERSON: -- yes, I understand. And apologies because I'm going to have to take a break. But it's been superb having you on. Thank you so much. I know
it's not an easy day for you.
[10:45:00]
ANDERSON: I also know that your voice will be part of that new conversation as and when it's tabled. Hanan, thank you very much indeed for
your time.
I am going to take a very short break, folks. Palestinians now observing three days of mourning, grieving the loss of one of the most consequential
and in many ways controversial figures in the Middle East, Saeb Erekat.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Well, this hour, the government of Denmark backtracking on an order to cull millions of minks in an effort to contain an apparent mutated
strain of the coronavirus.
The Danish government now says it has no legal authority to order that they be killed en masse so officials are making it a recommendation to farmers
instead. And we understand they are doing so.
This mass culling began last month over fears that the mink were getting infected by a coronavirus mutation. CNN's Isa Soares has the latest. But
first, a warning, that you may be disturbed by some of the images in her report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Mink farms across Europe are raising alarm in the fight against coronavirus as farm workers bring the virus to the animals
and, in these cramped conditions, it could spread like wildfire.
Nowhere is this concern more acute than Denmark, where it has led to this, the government recommending that farmers cull all 15 million mink across
1,500 farms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot underline enough how seriously the Danish government takes this situation. The Danish government has, from the moment
the global pandemic reached Denmark, chosen to act fast, decisively and with clear commitment that we would rather go a step too far than take a
step too little to combat COVID-19.
SOARES (voice-over): Scientists have noted a small mutation in the virus in some of the people and minks affected. That's normal but it's unclear if
it's meaningful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a lot of minks in those farms on a small area together so you have a lot of transmission. So in the end you have far more
mutations that you would have in the same region in the human population. So the risk that you have in mutation that could be more dangerous is
higher.
SOARES (voice-over): Europe's CDC fears such a mutation may have implications for immunity reinfections and the effectiveness of COVID-19
vaccines but says there is currently a high level of uncertainty over this. The World Health Organization, meanwhile, says further studies are needed.
SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN, WHO CHIEF SCIENTIST: We need to wait and see what the implications are but I don't think we should -- we should come to any
conclusions about whether this particular mutation is going to impact vaccine efficacy or not.
[10:50:00]
SWAMINATHAN: We don't have any evidence at the moment that it would.
SOARES (voice-over): Some scientists argue, however, that the fear is overblown because so many mutations have already occurred in humans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't really believe there is an extra risk of the mutations happening more often in minks than in humans, that they could
create some kind of new different super strain.
SOARES (voice-over): Danish researchers are now combing through the testing data to better understand the mutation; the danger still unknown.
But in Denmark they are taking no chances -- Isa Soares, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: I want to bring in Sterghios Moschos, who is -- or used to work for Pfizer and is now currently an associate professor of molecular
virology at Northumbria University in England.
It's great to have you with us.
Are these concerns of an animal like a mink acting at what's known as a reservoir of infection?
Are these concerns warranted, to your mind?
STERGHIOS MOSCHOS, NORTHUMBRIA UNIVERSITY: Yes, simply put they are very much warranted. If we have a virus that's circulating in an increased
number of individuals, human or animal, then the chances that the virus will mutate are higher.
The mink farms in Denmark are actually really, really crowded environments and, just like in the human settings, the virus will go through wildfire
through these crowded mink settings.
So the consequence of that is that the virus may become endemic or adapted to live in mink and then hop back to humans. Now we have already seen that
the virus can go into mink and back to humans because it came from the humans in the first place.
Therefore, having ongoing transmission in the background in an animal population means that the virus is given a space and time to adapt, change
and, therefore, potentially come back in the future in a slightly different form.
That's why we need flu vaccines every year, because the vaccine for flu stops working on an annual basis because flu sits in birds, pigs, all sorts
of animals and then hops back to humans. And here we go again and again and again. That's what we're trying to avoid.
ANDERSON: Well, that's fascinating. Let's talk about vaccines, then, because after Pfizer, your former company, announced alongside BioNTech,
that their vaccine had proven to be over 90 percent effective, you tweeted an article saying, and I quote here, "Although it is a bright spot in the
battle against the pandemic, key information about the vaccine is not yet available.
"There is no information yet on whether the vaccine prevents severe cases, the type that can cause hospitalization and death, nor is there any
information yet on whether it prevents people from carrying the virus."
These are clearly all important points. Explain further, if you will.
MOSCHOS: Yes, surely. I will start with the second point about the courage (ph) of the virus. This (INAUDIBLE) situation that we're thinking about
students going back home for Christmas, maybe our government here in the U.K. maybe the U.S. government, maybe some other government decides to go
away and vaccinate all these young individuals before they go up to their parents, who might be elderly themselves, or the grandparents for the
festivities.
What happens next is, if the virus is still able to move from the student to the parents and the grandparents, then these individuals will get sick.
And the vaccine hasn't protected those other individuals. So it's important to establish that, whomever gets vaccinated, can't get infected and
transmit the virus.
They might be just protected and they may never get a fever or a cough, they may get a cough or a fever or something worse as well but not die.
That's then when we go to the first question of how protective is that vaccine.
So if we look at the entry on clinical trials, or the clinical trial from Pfizer and BioNTech as registered, there is a lot of (INAUDIBLE) on what we
mean by an effective vaccine.
ANDERSON: Right.
MOSCHOS: It's not very well described.
So does it mean that they get a bit of a cough?
Or does it mean that they have to be put on a ventilator?
We just don't know. And that information is not there. And consequently, we don't know what protection really means.
ANDERSON: Right, and these are clearly extremely important points.
Very briefly, when do you think we will get a vaccine?
When will a vaccine be ready for all of us?
MOSCHOS: If I had that crystal ball, I would perhaps do some investment in those companies as well. And you may read into that statement whatever you
like. But I'm afraid nobody can actually give you a straight answer on that one, OK?
It's a brand new virus, we don't know what its cycle it's going to be with regards to escaped mutants through reservoirs, et cetera.
[10:55:00]
MOSCHOS: We don't know how long vaccines that are being developed right now are going to last in protecting you, it might be six months, it might
be a year, might be a decade, we just don't know. We don't know how fast we will have the data that will allow us to say with confidence, we've done
this.
ANDERSON: With that we leave it there. Thank you for your sage words.
The U.S. marking Veterans Day with a ceremony involving President Trump at Arlington National Cemetery. It will be Mr. Trump's first official public
appearance since an angry White House news conference last Thursday. More on the ceremony and more on Donald Trump after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: We are taking a quick break in a few minutes before the second hour of the show. But before we do that, a quick trip to a legendary golf
course in 20 seconds that may help us forget for a moment that it is 2020.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Just have a look at this. It is quite astonishing. Spanish golfer Jon Rahm skillfully skipping the ball across the pond during
a practice round for what is the legendary Masters tournament.
The ball bobbed and weaved a little bit on the green as it approached, yes, approached the 16th hole. But that ball just kept going. A laser-like
trajectory towards the flag and, oh, it went.
Did I mention it was Rahm's 26th birthday?
There is a hole in one and well-deserved high-fives for Rahm and his caddie. Unfortunately, there were no spectators on the Augusta, Georgia,
course because of the pandemic. Good thing that there were cameras or no one, no one would have believed this.
To show it to you again, I think this is about the 10th time I have watched this.
Isn't it just marvelous?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go in. Go in. Go in.
(APPLAUSE)
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Much more ahead in the second hour of CONNECT THE WORLD.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:00:00]
END
