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Drug Maker AstraZeneca Says Vaccine Is 70 Percent Effective On Average; Key Oxford Researcher Speaks To CNN About Vaccine Results; U.S. Travel Ramps Up Ahead Of Thanksgiving; President-Elect Signals Experience, Diversity In His Team; U.S. Deals With Post-Election Turmoil And Worsening Pandemic; Some Americans Resist Urge To Gather On Thanksgiving. Aired 11a- 12p ET
Aired November 23, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, this hour promising news in the quest for a Coronavirus vaccine. In the midst of a brutal wave of the
COVID-19 pandemic sweeping much of the world, there is encouraging news on another vaccine.
The drug-maker AstraZeneca and researchers at Oxford University said they have developed one that - on average 70 percent effective in human trials
among the volunteers there are no reports of hospitalizations or severe cases of COVID-19.
Well, joining us now one of the people who help developed this vaccine, Professor Adrian Hill of Jenner Institute at Oxford University, and it's
great to have you on sir. This being applauded today by Boris Johnson the Prime Minister saying and I quote incredibly exciting news on the Oxford
vaccine. It's proved effective in trials still further safety checks ahead but these are fantastic results.
So congratulations, sir. Help us understand the data, if you will. On the one hand the vaccine is 90 percent efficacy when given as a half dose
followed by a full dose, at least a month apart, on the other when given as two full doses we've got some 62 percent efficacy. I'm no good at these
things so help us out. What are you telling us today?
ADRIAN HILL, DIRECTOR, OXFORD UNIVERSITY'S JENNER INSTITUTE: We're telling you that we tested two different immunization regimens. One the standard
regime where you get the same dose twice and the other a fairly new type of regime where you increase the dose so we started with half a dose and then
the second immunization was with the full dose and intriguingly that gave very high efficacy of 90 percent, that was highly statistically
significant.
So this looks like a real result for high efficacy, and we don't fully understand that but there are several ideas around as to how it might work,
and we're exploring those.
ANDERSON: How long will it take you to understand specifically what's going on here?
HILL: Oh, probably weeks and months to do that. We are, of course, looking at that in further trials. As you know, there's a very large trial running
in the U.S. right now. About 10,000 people have been recruited already. The numbers are going to be between 30,000 and 40,000 by the time we have
finished.
So we may well have the opportunity to reassess this in the U.S. trial, and, of course, the - I'm afraid the cases in the UK are so frequent now
that by the time we finish the UK and Brazilian studies at the end of the year we'll probably have close to 200 cases in - in the trial as a whole so
we'll be able to look at this on even larger numbers.
ANDERSON: Promises on distribution, of course, coming thick and fast at this point. Is there any way you can ensure that the one with 90 percent
efficacy is the one that gets distributed?
HILL: You know, well, it's the same vaccine to be distributed, and the vaccines usually come in ten-dose vials so it's really the choice of the
end user whether you get one regime or the other because it's very easy to give half a dose.
We've discussed this with the Department of Health in the UK, they are very confident that is going to be straightforward. So that's not a logistic
challenge, and, of course, it's dose sparing, so you may be aware that AstraZeneca have taken on contracts to manufacture as many as 3 billion
doses of this vaccine over the next 12 months which would be absolutely extraordinary and fantastic.
[11:05:00]
HILL: But if you could use the half dose regime that 3 billion would certainly become 4.5 billion doses available so there are a couple of
reasons why you might want to use this low dose-high-dose regime.
ANDERSON: Take us through the next steps then if you will. I mean, this is clearly extremely exciting. You have said that the vaccine will start
getting rolled out from December. Is that a timeline that is doable at this point and how much vaccine are you planning to administer?
HILL: I'll come to that, but let me take you through the next steps which are actually looking more at the data that we analyzed yesterday, and there
are a couple of really interesting things there. You mentioned one of them.
The there were no cases of severe disease in the vaccinees in the whole trial. But certainly there in the controls we need to firm up that data and
publish it. We'll do that in the next few days. And even more excitingly an end point that we don't think any other group has looked at which is to ask
the question does the vaccine protect against being infectious?
In other words, most people who are infectious are actually asymptomatic in many countries, and to measure asymptomatic COVID you need to swab people,
and we did that in literally thousands of people every week for months and months and months.
So we have the result of whether a vaccine protects you against asymptomatic COVID infection which, of course, as you know, is
transmissible, so the initial data on that we're going to look at more carefully. But, again, it looks like we're getting significant useful
efficacy against asymptomatic carriage of this virus.
And in a public health sense that would be very important because the vaccine would quell the epidemic much more quickly if it blocks
transmission as well as blocking disease.
ANDERSON: And that's a view echoed by the Head of AstraZeneca who spoke with CNBC just a short time ago. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDD DOBBER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, ASTRAZENECA: We're pleased to see what we've seen so far, but I think it's a little bit too early in order to
be definite about that piece.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Before we move on--
HILL: So just to build on that.
ANDERSON: Yes, go on, go on.
HILL: Yes, absolutely. We need to confirm this result as I was suggesting, and we will have more cases, and we will have the U.S. trial so we should
get a strong read on that point.
ANDERSON: How big a deal has this been for your institute? Just walk us through the work that is being done. We've talked so much about the amount
of time that these things normally take to develop the speed at which you guys and others have got to this point seems almost miraculous. Just
explain what's been going on, if you will?
HILL: So in the middle of January the starting end was fired by the identification of the sequence of the virus and lots of groups around the
world started looking at the possibility of making a vaccine. Today there are 200 groups, at least, in universities and biotechs and pharma companies
and government institute making vaccines for COVID.
We were right out on a limb in March by saying that this could be done within a year, and, you know, just eminent authorities like Tony Fauci
said, at least a year and a half, typically much longer, so what has made the difference?
It's really because everybody else has moved as fast as we were able to move by cutting the interval between each stage of the development process,
and even allowing us to overlap them so we were starting our Phase III trial as we were doing our Phase I trial.
We were manufacturing vaccine way back in June, July, August, months before we had this efficacy result, and, of course, if the vaccine didn't work at
all, all those doses would have been wasted, so part of the answer is to be a priority for all the regulators and ethical committees and other
assessors who need to give you permission to do these trials.
And part of the answer is having countries willing to work with us, like Brazil, South Africa, Kenya, India, United States in taking forward the
candidate and believing that it had credibility, and a lot of it is just sheer hard work by hundreds of people in the institute who donned tools on
their PHDs and on their post-op projects on their life's work and term that having to accelerating development of this COVID vaccine.
ANDERSON: Professor, what, if any, political pressures have you and your colleagues felt under during this period?
[11:10:00]
HILL: Not very much. We have been funded by the UK government as well as our lead funders. They have been very supportive in terms of advising us,
providing other resources, epidemiology has been crucial to the understanding of this epidemic.
And they set up a task force in the UK called the UK Vaccine's Task Force to maximize procurement as well as development of advantages evens from a
variety of sources, so the UK as well provided for, even if our vaccine does absolutely nothing, so as much encouragement as pressure I think would
be my summary.
ANDERSON: And you genuinely believe, otherwise you wouldn't be doing this interview and you wouldn't have released the data I'm sure, that this is
safe, correct?
HILL: It's - it's certainly as safe as other vaccines that have been licensed, so what we know about it today is that 32,000 people have been
enrolled in trials. More than half of them are receiving this vaccine. There have been no serious adverse events attributed to the vaccine.
We also know very importantly that this type of vaccine adenovirus vector which is licensed for other diseases like a vaccine against Ebola in many
countries have been safe. So the platform, the vaccine platform technology has been safe and has been used in humans since early 1990s.
That's not true of all vaccines that area showing efficacy, so we're more confident about this than I think we have been about many vaccines that we
were involved in contributing to getting licensure. So, yes, I think we're as confident as we could be at this stage.
ANDERSON: Can you just clear up for us the news back in October that a volunteer in the trial had died. The trial though did, of course, continue.
This was in Brazil. Just explain if you will, what happened?
HILL: Yes, as you know, discussing any serious adverse event in a trial is essentially not allowed. I'm a doctor. I have rules that I have to observe
on patient confidentiality and they carry through to patients or subjects who are in our clinical trials.
So what we know and is widely broadcast is that there was no evidence that that event was in any way related to vaccination. I'm not allowed to give
you clinical details of the subject as with any serious adverse event.
But the very fact that the next day all the ethical committees and regulators and everybody said carry on with the trial really probably gives
you most of the answer.
ANDERSON: In an interview with my colleague Jake Tapper, the Head of Operation Warp Speed in the States says the distribution of vaccines should
allow for, "Herd Immunity" to take place in May of 2021. Let's just have a listen to some of that sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: So normally with the level of efficacy we have, 95 percent, 70 percent or so of the
population being immunized would allow for true herd immunity to take place. That is likely to happen somewhere in the month of May or something
like that based on our plans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Does that resonate with you? Does that sound realistic?
HILL: It sounds plausible, but it does entail a lot of people being vaccinated between now and then. But, of course, herd immunity is brought
into play by vaccination against measles, against many common viral infections, and that's why it's important that we have to vaccinate our
children even against infections that aren't very common in the population.
It stops them from coming back so the same principle would, of course, apply to COVID. But that, remember, means that high percentage of the total
population, some people think that you might well start with the vulnerable, those with - the elderly, front line health care workers and so
on.
That wouldn't give you the herd immunity you need. You need around 70 percent of the whole population which is a big ask remembering that a lot
of people are not very keen on being vaccinated with any vaccine, so how feasible that is remains to be seen.
ANDERSON: Just want our viewers to hear from the Executive Vice President of AstraZeneca, again, speaking on ensuring fair distribution and access to
the vaccine. Have a listen to this.
[11:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBER: AstraZeneca made a huge commitment to provide the vaccine at no profit in an equitable way so we have supply chains in the United States,
in the UK, in Europe and also in the developing countries in the world, so that's a very important part of our strategy to make this vaccine available
to all the people around the world and that this is not reserved only to the rich countries or to the rich people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And that's resonate I'm sure with the 20 odd leaders who attended the virtual G-20 Summit in Riyadh this week, a promise from leaders of some
90 percent of the world's GDP that these vaccines will be equally and effectively distributed around the world. Are you confident that that will
happen, sir?
HILL: So it's very important that these principles are agreed the challenge is to execute them because you can agree to provide vaccines to everybody.
You can agree that the price will not be high. You still have to manufacture them, and the numbers are enormous.
If you're going to vaccinate most of the world next year, and certainly if you're going to try and achieve herd immunity as we heard in the last clip,
you need to have that manufacturing scale and capacity. And, frankly, the doses must be inexpensive or the world just can't afford $50 a dose of
vaccines given twice to 7 billion people.
So this is why way back in April when we were negotiating with AstraZeneca as you just heard from it was absolutely a priority for the university that
whoever we licensed to did not aim to make a profit during the period of the pandemic which is what AstraZeneca agreed, which is why the other
vaccine is being priced at around about $3 a dose for the U.S. taxpayer or for very low-income countries.
That's extremely important, but, you know, even having that principle, as I said a moment ago agreed, doesn't allow you to execute unless you can
manufacture at a vast scale. So what we have done to address that, and AstraZeneca have taken on that model and have built on it and now more than
ten countries are busily manufacturing this vaccine as we speak is to scale up and to go where the largest manufacturers are.
To go to India where the world's largest vaccine manufacturer has already produced tens of millions of doses of this vaccine, to Thailand, to Japan,
to Korea, obviously to the United States, to South America, many locations in Europe and in the UK.
So with this long, large distributed network, it's possible to try and get 3 billion dose made and distributed. But unless I think you started that
work tech transferring the vaccine to a dozen manufacturers three to six months ago, you're not going to be making a billion or two doses a year
next year.
ANDERSON: Professor, thank you for your time. You have given us a lot of food for thought here exciting news. We do wish you and your colleagues the
best. I mean, the last year must have been extremely tough for all of you, the last nine months or so, so congratulations on where you are at and good
look with what is left to do, sir, but we really do appreciate your time. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
What an exciting stuff. Well, let's get you up to speed on some breaking news from right here in the Middle East. Israel's Education Chief
confirming that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has met with the Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia's Foreign Ministry denies that that ever happened. Let me connect you to Oren Liebermann in Jerusalem for more at this point. What do
we know specifically, Oren?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So let's walk this through from when this meeting was supposed to happen and how Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu got to Saudi Arabia to what we know at this point?
So flight trackers, those who track flights online and through flight tracking websites picked up a private Israeli business jet that flew from
Israel to Saudi Arabia on Sunday. So yesterday, it spent about five hours on the ground and then was found coming back.
A short time after that report came out earlier today about this mysterious private business jet - a reporting for - and AXIOS News said it was in fact
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Head of the - Yossi Cohen on that flight and they were there to meet Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, a
meeting that would be momentous for the region, the first official or first meeting between these two leaders that of Israel and that of Saudi Arabia
Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman.
[11:20:00]
LIEBERMANN: At that point the question of course is what was discussed? This is a little more difficult to figure out but one can imagine it was
first Iran which was top on both priority list and then perhaps normalization. Why do we say normalization because somebody else was in the
City of - on the Red Sea in Saudi Arabia, and that was Secretary of State Mike Pompeo?
And he's made it very clear on the ten-day swing through Europe and the Middle East that normalization with Israel and the pushing forward of the
Abraham Accord and the Trump Administration's vision for the Middle East is very high on his priority list.
Both Pompeo and Netanyahu have in recent days suggested that more countries might soon normalize with Israel. Well, Saudi certainly didn't go that far,
according to the reports, but this meeting is nonetheless significant.
As to what the Israeli Education Minister --, he said that the meeting was an incredible achievement on Army Radio earlier today and he continued by
saying this. Let us sit at the very existing of the meeting. The fact that it was put out publicly even if it's only half official at the moment is a
matter of great importance from any aspect and matter.
Netanyahu spoken - faction a meeting a little earlier this afternoon, he didn't address it and he wouldn't confirm or deny it. Instead, he simply
said he's trying to widen the circle of peace. And about that same time it was Saudi's Foreign Minister who stepped in and said did in fact deny the
report saying there was no Netanyahu at the meeting, the only people at this meeting were Pompeo and Mohammed Bin Salman.
So a bit of a dispute over whether this meeting happened but there are indications there Becky and that is where this stands right now. Certainly
a sensitive meeting but one that indicates the direction Pompeo and the Trump Administration want to push the Middle East and certainly want to
push countries like Saudi Arabia.
ANDERSON: Oren Liebermann, on the story for you thank you Oren. Ahead on this show Canada's largest city goes back on strict lockdown as COVID-19
cases thereof surge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it is, you know, scary.
ANDERSON (voice over): Why officials say these measures are necessary to prevent a worst-case scenario also ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't feeling well, and he went to the hospital and he never came back home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (on camera): Well, some Americans remember family members lost to COVID-19. Now they urge other families to stay apart this Thanksgiving so
they can be together for the next one. And while Donald Trump still clings to bizarre legal challenges the Joe Biden's win the U.S. President-Elect is
already building his own cabinet. A few reveals after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, we started this hour with the very latest on the COVID vaccine for you, and it is needed right away. The Americas being ravaged by
COVID 129, November isn't even over yet and already the U.S. has seen more cases than any other month and it isn't because it's doing more testing.
[11:25:00]
ANDERSON: Last week new testing only increased by about 14 percent from the previous week, but cases jumped 25 percent nearly 84,000 Americans are
currently in hospital with COVID-19 as we speak. This Thursday the U.S. celebrates Thanksgiving. It's a huge traveling holiday, and airport
security officials say they screened about a million passengers last Friday alone.
That is only 42 percent of the volume screened at the same time last year, but it marks the busiest U.S. travel day since the start of this pandemic.
Well, across the border Canada's largest city Toronto going back into a strict lockdown for four weeks, and that is due to a sharp increase in
case. Paula Newton spoke with officials and business owners there.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Its nickname is Toronto the good. Canada's largest city comes by it honestly. Toronto was so complaint, nearly
everyone wearing masks, following doctor's orders it crushed the COVID-19 curve in spring, a curve that public health officials say is spiking out of
control now.
Daily cases can have nearly doubled in a matter of weeks. ICUs are near capacity and with 1500 Coronavirus deaths and counting in this city,
officials say a second lockdown as strict as the first, say for keeping schools open, must be enforced to avoid a worst case scenario.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. IRFAN DHALLA, VP, PHYSICIAN QUALITY AT UNITY HEALTH TORONTO: We're in a lot of trouble, and so our public health officials and our elected leaders
decided there really was no other choice to take, you know, a big step back.
NEWTON (voice over): That step back means a return a lining up for groceries, shutting down all in-person dining, even outdoors. All non-
essential in-store shopping, salons, gyms, now shut down for at least four weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's challenging obviously for all of us, but it's our societal obligation to do it.
NEWTON (voice over): That obligation extends to staying home and seeing no one other than those you live with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully by Christmas we may we get a control - our families can get together for Christmas but, you know it's - like I said,
it sucks for most of these people that are running these small businesses.
NEWTON (voice over): And it's not just business. The raptors, Toronto's beloved NBA team had to find a temporary home in Tampa, Florida, because of
the health crisis. It's a measure of how seriously this city is taking this. Caught up with Mayor John Tory not at City Hall but at home hunkering
down for a second wave he says many cities underestimated.
JOHN TORY, TORONTO MAYOR: I think you we didn't focus as hard as we now are very focused on the marginalized neighborhood where the virus spread and
the positivity in the test rates has been, you know, much higher than in other parts of the population, and we're really focused on that right now.
The lockdown will help us get a greater grip on all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're for freedom!
NEWTON (voice over): Protests against the lockdown and masks have been small but persistent, a reminder that the city's goodwill has its limits.
There's no question a second lockdown will be tough here in Toronto, but what's been even tougher to think about are the consequences if it doesn't
work.
The worry fewer restrictions in other areas bordering the city in some cases just a few blocks away means people will move freely to shop, dine
and get together only Toronto and one of its problem suburbs Peel is in lockdown. Hot House restaurant managers Adam Joe and Arif Ahmed used to
employ 100 people they were able to keep half on payroll. Thanks to their large patio under lockdown. They'll have to scale back even further.
ADAM JOE, RESTAURANT MANAGER: I guess I would say a little crush fallen. You know we have a lot of energy recently. I wouldn't say I was shocked.
NEWTON (voice over): Are you guys afraid what will happen if it doesn't work?
ARIF AHMED, RESTAURANT MANAGER: Absolutely. You don't really know how it's going to pan out on the other end so it is, you know, scary.
NEWTON (voice over): And so Toronto, one of the largest cities in North America, masks up, locks down and hopes this painful sacrifice will be
enough to reopen in time for Christmas. Paula Newton, CNN, Toronto.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, it is full speed ahead for Joe Biden. We now have some word or we now have word on some of his cabinet picks. The details are just
ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: Right, when President-Elect Joe Biden reveals his top cabinet picks on Tuesday, he's expected to send a message to U.S. voters and indeed
to America's allies that he'll surround himself with experienced steady hands. Well, Biden plowing ahead with the blueprint for his administration
despite Donald Trump's refusal to concede and the many obstacles he's thrown up to challenge the vote count in state after state.
Well, sources tell CNN Foreign Policy Adviser Anthony Blinken or Tony Blinken who served in both Barack Obama and Bill Clinton's Administrations
will be Biden's pick for Secretary of State. Arlette Saenz has a few other expected picks for Joe Biden's top tier of appointment. She is working her
sources in Wilmington in Delaware, Arlette?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, President-Elect Joe Biden is expected to announce his first cabinet picks tomorrow. And in that
announcement, we're expected to hear his choice for Secretary of State which is expected to be Tony Blinken. Blinken is a long time foreign policy
advisor to Joe Biden who served as a Deputy Secretary of State during the Obama Administration.
And by picking someone like Tony Blinken, Biden is relying on a seasoned diplomatic and foreign policy hand to help craft the early days of his
administration. Biden has talked about how he wants to make one of the key pillars of his White House restoring America's standing in the world and
trying to strengthen the relationships with foreign allies.
This is something Biden has talked about continuously out on the campaign trail. And if you talk to people close to Biden, they have said that he
wants a Secretary of State who can speak on his behalf, who understands his world view, and they believe that Blinken is the perfect person for that
job having spent so much time working alongside Joe Biden.
Now, we are also expecting tomorrow to hear Biden's choices for other key diplomatic and national security positions, and that is the ambassador to
the U.N. and also his national security adviser. For that position Jake Sullivan is the leading contender.
Sullivan had served as the national security adviser for Joe Biden when he was Vice President and also was a top aide to Hillary Clinton, while she
was Secretary of State. And then for the role of the Ambassador to the U.N., Linda Thomas Greenfield is considered to be the leading contender for
that job.
She has decades of experience in the foreign service and served as an Assistant Secretary of State, and she's also a women of color. So if Biden
were to select her for that position, it would lend some diversity to the top officials making up his administration. Biden has vowed to have a
diverse cabinet and administration, and that would make good on part of that promise.
Now, we are also learning that Biden next week is expected to announce his pick for Treasury Secretary, and that is expected to also be a historic
pick as he's looking to pick the first woman for the job.
[11:35:00]
SAENZ: Two of the contenders for that are Leal Brainard and Janet Yellen, both with history at the Federal Reserve. But Biden is making it clear that
he's plowing ahead with his transition planning, building out his cabinet and administration even as the Trump Campaign, as the Trump Team has put up
roadblocks.
ANDERSON: Arlette Saenz on some big, big appointments. Those, of course, will be announced on Tuesday. Thank you, Arlette. One of the first orders
of business for Biden's cabinet will be working on the pandemic.
The stimulus programs passed in March are set to expire at the end of this year and 12 million Americans are bracing for the loss of special pandemic
unemployment benefits just as the Christmas holiday ends. That is unless congress can pass another stimulus package.
One young representative from California feels extremely strongly about this. He told congress he's tired of being polite and that it is time to
grow up and get a stimulus out to the Americans who need it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOSH HARDER (D-CA): What the hell is happening in Washington? I'm not one to spend my time throwing bombs on this floor, but during this single
minute another American will die from COVID, and even more people are slipping into poverty because this town can't get its act together.
The best this town can do is finger-pointing. It's disgusting. The reality is there's plenty of blame to go around, but Americans need another
stimulus check. They needed it months ago. It's time to grow up. It's time to do what we're paid for. It's time to do our jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Congressman Josh Harder joining me now from Washington, D.C., and it is extremely good to have you, sir. Thanks for the time. That
was an impassioned plea. Did it make any impact on the floor, sir?
HARDER: I hope so. I think Republicans and Democrats across the country understand that we need a bipartisan stimulus deal. As I said, it should
have happened six months ago, but it absolutely has to happen before the end of the year or else we're going to see 10 million Americans have their
only source of income evaporate.
ANDERSON: Is that - is that realistic at this point? I mean, it does seem extraordinary; we are three days before Thanksgiving. And we are talking
about the potential for 10 million Americans literally not being able to pay their bills by the end of the year.
HARDER: Look, I think a deal is absolutely very possible because we know what needs to happen. Two months ago I was part of a group, 25 Democrats,
25 Republicans. We worked out a compromise. Unfortunately, leadership from both Republicans and Democrats and both the House and the Senate kind of
gave a shrug and ignored our compromise proposal, but it got loud support from across the country.
And so, the problem here isn't that we can't find what we need to do. We know what has to happen to keep people safe and to get people back to work.
What we need is a nationally coordinated program for vaccine distribution.
What we need is more unemployment benefits for those 10 million Americans that are going to see their only source of income fall off a cliff, so the
problem here isn't the details. The problem is the lack of leadership to put it forward and make sure that we get something across the finish line.
ANDERSON: What you need is for Washington to grow up and do its job, as you so eloquently put it on the floor just a couple of days ago. So what is
holding that process up? Is it purely politics at this point, and if so, shouldn't lawmakers be embarrassed?
HARDER: People should be embarrassed. They should be deeply frustrated. I think it's a shock, and I think it signifies that a lot of folks in
Washington just don't live in reality. They don't see the long lines at food banks across the country. We're heading into the Thanksgiving holiday.
10 million Americans are going to be wondering whether or not their checks are going to continue over the next couple of weeks. In my home state of
California, 750,000 Californians are going to see their source of income go away. That's not just a terrible Christmas present.
That's political malpractice, and we should continue to put the feet of leadership of both parties to the fire and lock them in a room, just throw
a bunch of pizza under the door until they come out with a deal that can actually come up for a vote.
[11:40:00]
ANDERSON: Let's see what happens. You know, the inauguration isn't until January the 20th if indeed Donald Trump has conceded by that point, and it
seems an awful long way away for the 750,000 people that you were talking about in your own state alone on that transition process Donald Trump still
banging on about election fraud.
The Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who's a key Republican who worked on Trump's re-election efforts both in 2016 - on his election
efforts and his re-election efforts, told ABC the president should admit defeat. Let's just have a listen to what Chris Christie said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: His legal team has been a national embarrassment Sydney Powell accusing Governor Brian Kemp of a
crime on television, yet being unwilling to go on TV and defend and lay out the evidence that she supposedly has.
This is outrageous conduct by any lawyer and notice, George; they won't do it inside the courtroom. They allege fraud outside the courtroom, but when
they go inside the courtroom they don't plead fraud, and they don't argue fraud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Josh, what's your position on this? And isn't this entire sort of nonsense around this transition process a huge distraction from what you
and I have just been discussing, what is important to Americans who can't pay their bills?
HARDER: Look, I think it's beyond time that Republican leaders face reality, acknowledge that Joe Biden won the election. Muddying the waters
here doesn't just delegitimize our very democracy.
It has huge stakes for exactly the challenge that you highlighted which the Americans that need help. Right now, the Biden team and the Trump team
should be working together on a coordinated strategy to deal with this vaccine. The details are incredibly important.
How do we make sure that enough doses are produced? How do we make sure that those doses are well refrigerated and well transported across the
country? How do we make sure that frontline workers and vulnerable populations get those?
But that coordination isn't taking place. Only because President Trump is a sore loser, and I think the fact that that's not happening is frankly
endangering American lives.
ANDERSON: Despite record-breaking stock markets, I see some very worrying forecasts about the American economy going forward. Joe Biden was in an
administration that took over and into a financial recession back in 2008. Do you have confidence that this is a president-elect at this point, but an
administration going forward that will cope?
HARDER: The cleanup process is going to be enormous, but the most important point that I'll make is that cleanup is going to be a lot tougher if it
starts in February or March of next year than if it starts even in the next month or two. Think about those 10 million Americans losing their only
source of income.
What's going to happen to them if they go for several months without more help? They are going to end up homeless, on the streets. They're going to
be kicked out of their homes. They're going to have huge challenges across - across communities in this country.
And so, that's why getting a bill done by the end of this year, before those unemployment benefits fall off a cliff is so critical because if they
don't then the mess that President Biden is going to be inheriting on January 20th is going to be far greater than it will be if we actually get
our act together now.
ANDERSON: These are mostly Americans who have been employed until now in the service industry, and there are more women affected here than there are
men. Again, your concerns going forward when you consider that it's likely the service industry that will be the last to recover.
And indeed I just want your thoughts finally, as you talk about how much worse this could be should it not be dealt with now going forward how
concerned are you about the influence and impact of automation going forward?
We've talked to Andrew Yang about this a lot on this show. Joe Biden will be inheriting a pandemic-fueled economy, which has been ravaged to a
certain extent when it comes to jobs by automation. Does that concern you, too?
[11:45:00]
HARDER: Absolutely. I think we have a lot of work to do. Even if we didn't have a pandemic, we have fundamental forces in our economy that have led to
a very narrow rise in medium wage over the past several decades. We have got to confront those forces, pandemic or no pandemic.
84 percent of the community that I represent in congress doesn't have a four-year college degree. But right now you can get a federal scholarship
if you want to go get a four-year philosophy degree, but you can't get the same federal scholarships if you want to go and be a maintenance mechanic,
a job that pays six figures, and is very much in need.
And so, we need to make sure that we're fighting against forces like automation, like globalization and equipping our communities for success.
The best way to do that is to invest in our education system and ensure that we are preparing people for the jobs that are desperately in need in
communities like this one.
ANDERSON: Josh, you make a lot of sense. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Thank you. We'll be back after this.
HARDER: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, a call to earth is a call to action for the environment. It's called to share solutions to critical issues like global warming, like
deforestation and plastic waste. And if you're a regular viewer of this show, you'll know that it's a long-term priority for all of us at CNN to
work with you, our audience, to drive awareness and inspire change so that we can together engineer a sustainable future.
Well, in this week's report how Barbara Block is using technology to study some of our oceans' largest predators. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): The workday starts early for marine scientist, Barbara Block.
BARBARA BLOCK, PROTHRO PROFESSOR IN MARINE SCIENCES, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: One of the great aspects of working in Monterey bay is, we can wake up in
our house, get on a boat, that's an hour way, go out to on your - one of the most beautiful reserves we have here, and we can actually work on white
sharks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): For the past 40 years Block has studied the world's top marine predators in the Monterey Bay National Marine
Sanctuary, one of four federally protected areas off the Coast of California preserving a vast array of marine biodiversity. Block studies
Apex's ocean predators like Blue Fin Tuna and, of course, the mighty white shark.
[11:50:00]
BLOCK: Here in Monterey Bay, we're lucky in that part of the year for a short period of time white sharks approach the shores close enough that we
can actually interact with them on a daily basis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Every year in the late summer or early autumn, hundreds of white sharks arrive in the sanctuaries to feed on the
area's bountiful supply of elephant seals and sea lions. That's when Block and her team head out luring animals to their boat with the seal-shaped
decoy, then take photos, record the shark's sex and place an electronic tag on its dorsal fin.
BLOCK: This is a camera tag and it's got a magnetometer, gyroscope, accelerometer and a camera. Our lab has been at the forefront at new
tagging technology for over 20 years. They ride on the animal every second, they take data and temperature pressure, light and time. And then what will
happen is that, these tags will have a pin that releases through electrolysis.
It will come to the surface all the way up and then send its data to the satellite. It's a lot of fun to work on white sharks. They come up to our
decoys or near the boat with a lot of curiosity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Found in cool coastal waters around the world, white sharks are the largest predatory fish on earth. Their torpedo-
like shape allows them to glide through the water of top speeds of up to 50 kilometers per hour. The scientific research on these elusive predators'
increases or understanding of the role they play in the ocean is beginning to evolve as well.
BLOCK: One of the keys of our discoveries is to learn that, while we thought originally white sharks were moving north and south along the
California current, they are actually moving way offshore, over a thousand nautical miles to a place that from space and looking down on the sea, we
would have no idea was a white shark gathering point.
These animals almost have no boundaries. They go from the surface to 2,000 meters in the flick of their tail. It's amazing how much of the eco-systems
they are use. How little we understand how they do it? And I think the next generation will take us into those deeper waters, the waters without light
and allow us to actually see what's happening when the animals are down in the depths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And we'll continue showcasing inspirational stories like this as part of the initiative at CNN, and do let us know at what you are doing to
answer the call with the #calltoearth. I'm going to take a very quick break back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: For the first time since this wretched virus took hold, we can see a route out of the pandemic. The
breakthroughs in treatment, in testing vaccines mean that the scientific cavalry is now in sight, and we know in our hearts that next year we will
succeed.
By the spring, these advances should reduce the need for the restrictions we've endured in 2020 and make the whole concept of a COVID lockdown
redundant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:55:00]
ANDERSON: Well, that's the British Prime Minister promising in the past hour or so that help should be at hand soon, but that will be then. And
this, of course, is now millions of Americans, for example, hitting the road for the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday, the travel rush already under
way with airports seeing some of their biggest days of the year this weekend gone, this despite the CDC advising Americans to stay at home and
keep the virus from spreading.
Natasha Chen now reports, some families are skipping the traditional get- togethers because they saw what could come next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTHUR BRELAND, PASTOR, UNITED CHURCH: We know that there are so many people that are going through dark times right now.
NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: After almost a year of dark times, there's an understandable urge to be together for thanksgiving.
KATHY FAYNE, DEKALB COUNTY, GEORGIA RESIDENT: My father is 83.
CHEN (voice over): But the risk is huge.
FAYNE: So I'm struggling with going to see him, because my mother passed earlier this year so I'm struggling right now, trying to decide if I'm
going or if I'm staying home.
CHEN (voice over): The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says, stay home. CDC experts now say most Coronavirus infections are spread by
people with no symptoms and the spread is worse than ever. The U.S. saw more than 100,000 new COVID-19 cases every day for at least the last 19
days.
New cases this month already total about a quarter of all U.S. Coronavirus cases during the whole pandemic. One of the early cases was Pastor Arthur
Breland.
BRELAND: It's the worst experience I've ever had had in my life.
CHEN (voice over): On March 25th he woke up in a sweat.
BRELAND: I basically was trying to rush through the refrigerator to put my head in the freezer because I was so hot, and then that's all I remember
and my wife waking me up a couple moments after that and then being rushed to the ER.
CHEN (voice over): After 12 days in the hospital and another month and a half recovering, he knows firsthand how real the threat is. This year his
congregation is having more events outdoors. They will not be having their annual celebration, and Breland says he won't be visiting family across the
country.
As Eslene Richmond Shockley is also foregoing her family's usual 50-person gathering that's to protect her family after they already lost her 83-year-
old uncle who she says died from COVID-19 in April.
ESLENE RICHMOND SHOCKLEY, FOUNDER, CARING FOR OTHERS, INC: He wasn't feeling well and he went to the hospital, and he never came back home.
CHEN (voice over): Shockley runs caring for others, a charity organization that held its annual Thanksgiving food drive Saturday. She honored her
uncle Walter Green, who would usually be present at the vegetable station.
SHOCKLEY: And this is the first year in 20 years that my uncle will not be here to help us distribute - because that was someone I could pick up the
phone and call, but that's someone that is gone.
CHEN (voice over): So she says to make sure she can still see her other loved ones next Thanksgiving, she won't be seeing them this Thanksgiving.
SHOCKLEY: Life is precious. Let us try to save each other.
CHEN (voice over): Natasha Chen, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, we are bang out of time. There's always a moment to remind you do stay safe. Do stay well. Listen to the experts, and do look after
yourselves. It's a very good evening.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
