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CNN Speaks to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris; Biden's Bottom Line on Iran and China; One Month Since Fighting Began in Ethiopia. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired December 04, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[10:00:26]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our numbers are at alarming rates. We sure could use some leadership in the White House.
JOE BIDEN (D), U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: On the first day I'm inaugurated I'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): This hour in an exclusive interview with CNN, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris spell out their vision for America,
and it is very different to the reality right now.
Plus --
BIDEN: The bottom line is that we can't allow Iran to get nuclear weapons.
ANDERSON: They had quite a bit to say about what will affect our world on Iran and China. We will connect you live to Tehran and Beijing this hour.
Plus --
JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: I'm in Um Rakouba, which is the camp for Tigrean refugees.
ANDERSON: We're on the ground in Sudan, bringing you the very latest on one of the most urgent and acute humanitarian situations anywhere in the
world.
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ANDERSON (on camera): Well, it's 10:00 in the morning in D.C., 5:00 p.m. in Khartoum, 6:30 in the evening in Iran, 7:00 at night right here in Abu
Dhabi.
Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Becky Anderson for you.
This hour, we are learning that COVID-19 is now the leading cause of death in America this week. It's killing more people than heart disease or lung
cancer, or strokes or killing those from kidney disease, really horrible stuff. That's as a key model predicts more than half a million Americans
will lose their lives to the disease by April and it is moving towards that number very quickly, 2,879 Americans were killed by the pathogen on
Thursday.
If you are a regular viewer of this show, you will have heard me report yesterday that 675,000 Americans lost their lives in the Spanish flu, which
means we are now living through a calamity of historic proportions. This is a plague people will be talking about for centuries.
And what kids one day will study in their history books about our painful present will change dramatically in little over a month. Just 47 days, in
fact, when Joe Biden and Kamala Harris walk into the White House as president and vice president of the United States and, frankly, America set
to look very different under their stewardship as they laid out to CNN in their first joint interview since being elected.
An exclusive, take a listen to Biden explaining what his first 100 days will look like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: There's going to be a couple things. Number one, it's going to be important we set out national standards. Look, we met with governors,
Democrat and Republican, as well as 50 Democrat and Republican mayors. They said they need guidance. They need guidance. And they're going to need a
fair amount of money.
It's one thing for us to talk about being able to get help out there, but it's not getting there. We're having these hospital stays are overwhelming
hospitals right now, there's a need for more financial assistance, there's more financial assistance needed as well when the vaccine comes forward,
there's need for planning.
And so, now, the administration has been cooperating with us of late, letting them know what their plans are for the COVID virus, for how they're
going to deliver on the vaccine, but there's not any help getting out there. Look at all the -- all the businesses that are being hurt so badly.
No money to help them. Come Christmastime, there's going to be millions of people see their unemployment run out.
So there's a whole range of things that have to be done and we have to ante up, I'm hoping, and we've talked about this, I'm hoping the Senate in this
lame duck session will come up with some help to make sure we can keep people moving, keep people -- even if their jobs -- even if they have to
close restaurants and bars, they are able to be able to maintain their business while they're out, and so, there's a whole lot of things that have
to be done quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, in some ways we've had a vaccine of sorts all along between masks, social distancing and good hygiene, you can, of course,
limit the spread of the disease.
But putting a mask on hasn't become as normal as, say, brushing your teeth for everyone.
Here is Biden's take on fixing that problematic issue.
[10:05:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The president and the vice president we set, you know, the pattern by wearing masks, but beyond that, the where the federal government has
authority, I'm going to issue a standing order that in federal buildings, you have to be masked, in transportation, interstate transportation, you
must be masked, and airplanes and buses, et cetera.
And so, it's a matter of -- and I think my inclination, Jake, is in the first day I'm inaugurated to say I'm going to ask the public for 100 days
to mask. Just 100 days to mask. Not forever, 100 days.
And I think we'll see a significant reduction if we incur that and -- that occurs with vaccination and masking so drive down the numbers considerably,
considerably.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, we are tracking, of course, the incredible pace at which a vaccine is now being developed. The ultimate cure of course we hope.
But while that is a scientific miracle, it has also led to a sense of vaccine hesitancy. Now, to be clear, those fears are groundless if
regulators give a vaccine the green light, that means it's been through all standard safety checks and it's good to go.
Here is how Biden and Harris see that issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Are you confident that if and when the FDA does give that approval, it will be safe and effective and will you take it?
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), U.S. VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Of course I will. And -- but we also want to make sure that the American people know that we
are committed, the president-elect and I talk about this all the time, that the people who need it most are going to be a priority.
TAPPER: Do you plan to get vaccinated before inauguration day and will you do it in public the way that Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton have
suggested they're willing to do?
BIDEN: I will be happy to. When Dr. Fauci says we have a vaccine that is safe that's the moment in which I will stand before the public and see
that, look, part of what has to happen, Jake, and you know as well as I do, people have lost faith in the ability of the vaccine to work. Already, the
numbers are really staggeringly low, and it matters what a president and vice president do.
And so, I think that my three predecessors have set the model as to what should be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, there is one man who has been a guiding light through all of this, not just stateside but globally, he has, though, at times shown a
little too brightly for some, namely Donald Trump.
Here is Joe Biden on the one and only, Dr. Anthony Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Look, my chief of staff has worked with him in the last crisis, he has been talking to him all the time, Ron Klain, I talked to him today, we
spoke today 3:00. My COVID team met with him. I asked him to stay on in the exact same role he has had in the past several presidents and I asked him
to be a chief medical adviser for me as well and be part of the COVID team.
And so what has to be done is we have to make it clear to the American people that the vaccine is safe when it occur -- when that is determined.
And, number two, you have to make sure as he points out you don't have to close down the economy like a lot of folks are talking about now, if, in
fact, you have clear guidance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I'm delighted to be joined by the man who conducted that blockbuster exclusive -- you will have seen him in those clips -- CNN's
Jake Tapper here to connect us to what we can expect, then, from Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as they gear up to take power.
Jake, good to have you with us.
What were your key take a ways? We have played some sound but there was an awful lot more. It was very substantive and I laughed there because we
haven't about substantive for content out of the U.S. president for some time. So what were your key takeaways?
TAPPER: Well, that's one of them, having a 40-minute conversation about governance, about issues ranging from Iran to China to appointments in the
cabinet, bringing up some, you know, sensitive topics such as previous fights between the two of them or ethics issues having to do with
President-elect Biden's son or his brothers, but not having to prepare one self for an emotionally abusive attack, all new in this -- in the last few
years, certainly a different experience than one we're used to.
But, you know, it was also welcome because as journalists, I don't need to tell you we got in this business to challenge people in power, but not to
like necessarily subject ourselves to insanity or indecent diatribes.
One uncomfortable topic I brought up with President-elect Biden is the fact that one of the premiere liberal civil rights organizations, the NAACP, has
been very vocal in recent days, saying that they are disappointed that they have not seen more black Americans appointed to prominent administration
positions.
[10:10:14]
And I brought that up with President-elect Biden. Here's what he had to say.
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BIDEN: This is going to be an incredibly diverse -- I'm going to keep my commitment that the administration both in the White House and outside in
the cabinet is going to look like the country. I'm going to be meeting with the NAACP board, I guess --
HARRIS: Tuesday, I think.
BIDEN: Tuesday.
HARRIS: Yeah.
BIDEN: And so, look, my job -- their job is to push me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Interesting moment there as you can tell because he's trying to figure out when it is on his schedule that he's meeting with the NAACP.
Look, he's got a lot of meetings, I don't fault him for that, but he turns to the Vice President-elect Kamala Harris and she says it's Tuesday. You
could really see their partnership and how much he relies upon her in that clip.
That happened several times where he was unsure of a figure, for instance, was it $900 billion and he turns to her and she affirms, yes, $900 billion
so that's interesting in terms of their partnership.
Something else I asked him about is the fact that, astoundingly, there are a lot of Republican senators, not to mention House members, who have yet to
acknowledge basic reality that he is the president-elect and, you know, Joe Biden ran for office and basically has conducted himself throughout decades
of his career as somebody who can broker deals, as somebody who can achieve compromises with Republicans across the aisle and I asked him how he
intended to do that given the fact that so few of these Republicans in the Senate are even willing to, you know, pay him the basic respect of
acknowledging that he won.
Here is what he had to say to that.
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TAPPER: Why have you not yet spoken with McConnell and how can you be optimistic about working with a group of individuals who have not even yet
acknowledged that you are the president-elect?
BIDEN: How do I say this tactfully?
TAPPER: You don't have to be tactful.
BIDEN: No, I do, because I don't want. There have been more than several sitting Republican senators who privately call me and congratulate me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He wouldn't tell me who they were, but that tactful Joe Biden is different from the one I met 20 years ago when I was covering him on
Capitol Hill initially, and that's the era that we're in.
ANDERSON: And the $900 billion I'm assuming refers to the $908 billion, I think, which is what's on the table as far as that stimulus bill is
concerned and that has to be their primary focus, doesn't it, as they take the reins.
Obviously, COVID sort of -- you know, the umbrella over all of this, but that stimulus that the American economy needs to your mind given what you
know about Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, particularly Joe Biden having covered him for so long, can he get the sort of stimulus that the American
people need through if they haven't got enough ahead of inauguration as it were? He plays across the divide, doesn't he, this guy?
TAPPER: Yeah, what's going to be interesting and it's going to be one of the tensions of the Biden presidency is his natural inclination to broker
compromise to reach out to Mitch McConnell in the Senate and try to achieve something versus the fact that he now also needs to be loyal to Democratic
leaders on Capitol Hill, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, and then there's also going to be this tension that has to do with the far left of the part,
the progressives.
ANDERSON: A normal interview is now one of our colleagues has described it, and normally, I'm not sure that I would take that as a compliment but
on this occasion that is exactly what we needed, you know, an interview conducted in a normal way with two excellent politicians and, of course,
the excellent Jake Tapper in the house. Thank you, sir.
Well, that's a look at how Biden will deal with things state side. Then there's, you know, the rest of the world, of course, to deal with.
I'm going to take to you Iran soon. But, first up, to somewhere that Joe Biden jump in the very same category, China, has been somewhat of a low
boil cold war emerging between the United States and China over the last year or so. Joe Biden, while Joe Biden says the communist republic
shouldn't be punished for COVID-19, he is not going to take a light touch approach towards it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The president's approach to China has been backwards. My concern from the beginning, and I've spoke about it and I met with Xi more times
than anybody had up until the time we left office that I'm aware of, is to make it real clear to China, there are international rules that if you want
to play by we'll play with you.
[10:15:17]
If you don't, we're not going to play. Number one.
Number two, it's not about punishing them for the COVID virus, it's about insisting that there be international norms that are established that they
play by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Biden's comments come as tensions between China and some of the western nations, including the U.S. and Australia, are reaching a
fever pitch. In a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed, America's top intelligent official even went to far as to say and, I quote: If I could communicate
one thing to the American people from this unique vantage point it is that the People's Republic of China poses the greatest threat to America today.
And the greatest threat to democracy and freedom worldwide since World War II.
And he is not going out on a limb in saying that. The top Republican and Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee are backing that exact
assessment.
Translation, Washington itself sees China as a threat. So this will outlive the Trump era by a long way.
CNN's David Culver connecting it all for us on the ground in Beijing.
How has China responded, if at all, to those comments, David?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT; Not surprisingly, Becky, they're pushing back and they are pushing back hard.
I will read you a little bit as to what the foreign ministry spokeswoman had to say earlier today here. They say that we hope that some politicians
on the U.S. side will respect the facts, stop making and selling falsehoods, stop producing and spreading political viruses and lies and
stop damaging China/U.S. relations.
Here is the reality, though, Becky, Beijing is in a very strange position right now because they're trying to figure out after they come out of the
Trump administration and go into dealing with the Biden administration what that will look like. They really don't know coming from how unpredictable
the Trump administration was and many of these encounters what the Biden team will do. Many think that perhaps this will be an opportunity for more
dialogue and more conversation, perhaps something similar to the interview that you described as a normal interview, maybe this will be a normal
conversation that they will be able to have with the Biden administration.
But the concern that they have here in Beijing is the support that Biden and his team will get internationally. So building up a coalition, so to
speak, that could put even more pressure on Beijing.
But the words that you heard there from John Ratcliffe, the director of national intelligence, direct and alarming and to your point they have
bipartisan support.
So this is not over when it comes to the U.S. putting pressure on China. What's going to be interesting is to see where the focus is. We know that
under President Trump, it was on the economy, it was on businesses, it was pushing for intellectual property theft to be justified and really to see
justice come to that in some manner.
It could be that under President Biden, it's more of a focus on human rights. Either way, it remains to be seen, and I think that's what Beijing
right now finds itself in the position of trying to figure out where to go from here.
ANDERSON: Interesting. Australia an ally of the U.S. of course is a key trading partner with China. It is also seeing a rise in tensions with
Beijing. What's stoked that flame, David?
CULVER: Well, here is what's interesting in this is that we have focused so much on U.S./China deteriorating relations but the reality is that the
strain may be worse between China and Australia. Australia relies heavily on China to the point that China is its largest trading partner, but this
most recent diplomatic feud between those two countries sparked, Becky, by a tweet.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER (voice-over): This illustration igniting a diplomatic fire between China and Australia. It appears to show an Australian soldier with a knife
held to an Afghan child's throat. A Chinese foreign ministry spokesman tweet it had out on Monday.
Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison demanded China apologize.
SCOTT MORRISON, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: It is a false image and a terrible slur on our great defense forces.
CULVER: The tweet comes after Australian officials released a report alleging that elite Australian forces killed 39 civilians and prisoners in
Afghanistan.
Australian defense forces dismissed 13 soldiers follow the report and recommended that federal police investigate 36 alleged war crimes.
Chinese officials doubling down this week refusing to apologize.
The Australian side has been reacting so strongly to my colleague's tweet. Why is that? Do they think that their merciless killing of Afghan civilians
is justified, but the condemnation of such ruthless brutality is not, she said?
[10:20:09]
International relations experts say Australia, a critical U.S. ally, is being punished by Beijing for following the Trump administration's lead in
standing up to China.
TOM SWITZER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTRE FOR INDEPENDENT STUDIES IN SYDNEY: It's this bullying nationalism that explains why China has not been very
good at winning friends and influencing outcomes.
CULVER: Australia left trying to balance security versus prosperity.
SWITZER: We are now in a, if you like, a zero sum game and the stakes are enormously high for all concerned, particularly the United States,
Australia's most important security ally, and China, Australia's most important trade partner.
CULVER: The tweeted image just the latest incident amidst a years long worsening China-Australia relationship. In April, Morrison was among one of
the first world leaders to call an inquiry into Beijing's handling of the pandemic.
JOHN GONG, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS: That's very outrageous to China, because it puts China sort of in the same
footing as Iraq, being investigated for weapons of mass destruction.
CULVER: Beginning in May, Beijing began targeting lucrative Australian exports to China, including wine, barley and beef. They face high tariffs,
anti-subsidy investigations and lengthy delays clearing customs.
In September, the last two reporters working for Australian news organizations in China were evacuated after being questioned by Chinese
authorities over a national security case.
SWITZER: There are a lot of countries in the region, most notably Australia, is very anxious about China's rise and they want the United
States to be heavily engaged both militarily and diplomatically in the Asia-Pacific region.
GONG: I don't quite see it that way. I think there's also room for more international cooperation.
CULVER: The plight of Australia is not lost in the incoming Biden administration. While not mentioning China specifically, the president-
elect's national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, tweeted in part Wednesday: As we have for a century, America will stand shoulder to
shoulder with our ally, Australia, and rally fellow democracies to advance our shared security, prosperity and values -- a pledge that Australia
certainly hopes to see President Biden uphold from the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER (on camera): One positive development coming Friday, Becky, out of Australia, a Chinese diplomat there calling for a better atmosphere so as
to enhance China/Australia relations. We'll see what happens.
ANDERSON: David Culver on the story for you. David, thank you.
Relations with China, Russia and also Iran high on the U.S. president- elect's agenda. Ahead on the show, how Iran is talking tough as Joe Biden draws a line on its nuclear program.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, this war has to stop but we have to help as many as we can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The head of the Norwegian refugee council speaking about the desperate needs of refugees who fled the war in Ethiopia's Tigray region.
He will join us to talk about why humanitarian aid is so hard to deliver.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:25:34]
ANDERSON: Well, new developments just coming into CNN. The American envoy on Iran and Venezuela, Elliott Abrams, telling "Reuters" that Iran unlikely
to retaliate for the assassination of their top nuclear scientist last week because they are hoping that Joe Biden could give them some breathing room
on sanctions.
But where does Joe Biden stand on Iran? What is the very latest from the exclusive interview with CNN last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: And the bottom line is that we can't allow Iran to get nuclear weapons and look how damaging this policy the president has gone for, he
has pulled out to get something tougher and what have they done? They have increased the ability for them to have nuclear material, they are moving
closer to the ability to be to have enough material for nuclear weapons. There are the missile issues.
All of those things I think will be very difficult but I know one thing, we cannot do this alone. And that's why we have to be part of a larger group
dealing not only with Iran, but with Russia, with China and a whole range of other issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, international security editor Nick Paton Walsh has been bringing us the latest from Tehran and he joins us now.
And you heard Joe Biden's position there. I mean, it will need to be very much flushed out, but what's the -- what's the position as far as Tehran is
concerned with this upcoming Joe Biden administration?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Well, we've heard from the foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, yesterday saying
that all these moves that have passed in the past 48 hours or so pushing them closer towards the possibility in February they might make steps to
enrich further, that those are all reversible.
But Joe Biden there, one of the key things he was pointing out was the need to get the Europeans back on side with America's strategy. They've been
frankly furious, the Trump administration pulling out of that nuclear deal. He also called the talks they are going to be very tough. He said there's
hard, hard things at stake and he mentioned that phrase missile issues, which kind of suggests that the U.S. might be looking for a broader
bargain, essentially something similar the Trump administration thought they could get from simply beating up Iran as much as they could
metaphorically over the last four years or so.
That is something that may involve broader discussions about ballistic missiles, Iran's presence in the region. It's a tough sell frankly, but
Iran certainly wanting sanctions relief. What's confusing at times is to hear the Trump administration in their closing weeks there, Elliott
Abraham, not a man lacking experience, he is on his second or third presidential administration now, that key enjoy on Iran, saying how he
doesn't think Iran will retaliate because they want sanctions relief, a bizarrely flat message to put out while simultaneously the U.S. is goading
Iran with further sanctions. And Iran feels that Israel is behind the association of its key nuclear scientist.
So, a sort of slightly blase White House at this point thinking there's nothing that can be done to push Iran into retaliation making these next
weeks exceptionally tense. Yes, everyone things diplomacy has to happen but the Biden administration hasn't spelled out immediate roles and the
Iranians have laid out a very tight timetable, essentially meeting that come early February, we may well see them beginning to enrich further and
making yet more measures to please the hawks here, that will make diplomacy tougher. A difficult two months ahead, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh on the ground in Tehran for you. Thank you, Nick.
Well, still ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EGELAND: Ten thousand people have come across the border just close to here where they flee violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The head of the Norwegian refugee council talks about a horrific crisis in Tigray. Jan Egeland will be with me. She has some firsthand
accounts from those who fled the fighting there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:31:48]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: I'm in Um Rakouba, which is the camp for Tigrean refugees. Ten thousand people have
come across the border, with a flee of violence. Harrowing stories of violence connected to the ongoing conflict in Tigray. We're giving
assistance to families and individuals and they're also here having first school for the children of the camp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Jan Egeland there, secretary general of the Norwegian Refugee Council, inside a refugee camp in Sudan that tens of thousands of
people have fled to from Ethiopia exactly a month after war started there between the federal government and renegade forces. In exclusive reporting
those forces now telling CNN in the last few moments that the fighting is still very much ongoing, contradicting claims from the Ethiopian
government.
Well, Jan Egeland joining us live from Khartoum, in Sudan.
Sir, you were at the Um Rakouba camp as far as I understand it, just explain where that is and what you witnessed there.
EGELAND: Well, it's close to the border to Ethiopia and it is to this place that people walked on their feet from Tigray and from the war zones.
These are people fleeing violence, families, children. And a lot of young men who were fearing, you know, for their lives and they all fled, you
know, with nothing, their bare hands.
So we put up humanitarian relief there. There is a program starting, but remember, Sudan received in ten days more refugees than the United States
have received now in a year. So we're overstretched, we are underfunded. Conditions are bad. It's much worse inside Tigray where we haven't had
access for a month.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and the Ethiopian prime minister said in the past couple of days that not a single civilian has been lost in this war in Tigray.
Does that stack up with what you are hearing?
EGELAND: Well, it does not, because one family, one mother after the other, all of these young men, they told harrowing stories of violence, you
know. There has been violence at times in villages, there's been between groups there has been many militias. It has been very bad. And, of course,
we have not had access, not the U.N., not the International Red Cross nor we the international nongovernmental organizations that were operational in
Tigray.
We NRC had 100 relief workers there, 90 still inside, many of them had to flee themselves.
[10:35:08]
Hopefully we can now with the new deal negotiated between the U.N. and the government, we can all return to resume humanitarian relief inside of
Tigray and then we will know more of what has happened to the civilian population, including the Eritrean refugees who were there, 100,000 of
them.
ANDERSON: That access was promised by the Ethiopian government on Wednesday. Are you telling me that that access has not yet been granted to
agencies?
EGELAND: What I hear from my colleagues in Ethiopia is that Congress have planned for Monday so we really hope that those interagency Congress, with
lots of organizations and led by the U.N. will be able to go Monday. So far as I understand, that's not been convoys into Tigray. We have gone,
however, to Afar, which is next door where we also have received people fleeing from Tigray, which is then from one Ethiopian region to the next.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and we've just spoken -- CNN has just spoken to a member of the TPLF, the Tigray People's Leadership Forces, and what we're hearing
is pretty frightening stuff. He says there are military engagements in the larger part of the region. He says we've been defending our positions. It
won't be long before we reverse and launch a counteroffensive.
But specifically he told CNN this -- and I quote him here -- this is becoming an ethnic war because it is ably pitting Amhara against Tigray,
and he is concerned he says that this conflict is descending into ethnic cleansing.
Again, does this tally with what you are hearing on the ground?
EGELAND: Well, TPLF is, of course, party to this conflict. It's very worrying what they're saying because they're saying there will be much,
much war in a zone full of civilians. So the government TPLF, all of these men with guns and power have to sit down and talk because women, children
are bleeding here and we should not allow for another ethnic conflict in Africa. There are too many.
I mean, in Sudan, there is a million refugees before this last 50,000 came. There were millions internally displaced in Sudan, there were hundreds of
thousands displaced elsewhere in Ethiopia. We need peace and we need the international community to come and urge piece, the neighbors, African
Union, everybody we need to urge that there is reconciliation.
ANDERSON: And you make a very good point because, look, you are on the ground doing whatever you can as a humanitarian agency and we applaud your
work but it's interesting I want to read out a tweet from a viewer who has been watching our coverage. You've been consistently trying to report on
what is going on despite the communications blackout.
One of the viewers asked when we were talking to UNCHR recently, which I know is one of the agencies leading the effort in Ethiopia, why we were
talking to the agency and not so the Secretary General Anthony Gutierrez. And this viewer says it is a political crisis, not a humanitarian one.
Now, we've got a statement attributable to the second general of the U.N., this was back on the 24th of November, calling for a solution as you are,
too, calling for a political solution here. Do you have any faith that that is what the parties are in any way interested in doing at this point,
sitting down around the table and finding a solution to this?
EGELAND: Well, I have high hopes really. It's only years ago that Abiy Ahmed, the prime minister of Ethiopia, came to my hometown of Oslo to
receive the Nobel Peace Prize for his very laudable peace agreement with neighboring Eritrea. Of course he can negotiate with the other side, TPLF
should prepare for talks and not to -- for renewed offensives.
It is possible that we cannot accept that political disagreements lead to this kind of bloodshed, and of course people when they are displaced it's
always very, very dangerous that they become locked in displacement in becoming refugees for a long time.
[10:40:09]
These children that you showed images of should not be there for long in this refugee camp. They wanted -- they told me they have hopes to become
doctors and nurses and journalists and aid workers. I mean, they don't want to live in a refugee camp.
ANDERSON: Jan, it's always a pleasure talking to you, I'm sorry that once again, we are talking about a situation which really at present there seems
to be no solution to, but we will continue to report on this story, you will continue to do your work and at some point soon, let's hope that we
are talking about a political solution on this one. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Jan Egeland on the ground in Sudan for you.
We will be right back.
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ANDERSON: For eight months now, fans have seen the thrills and spills and chills of major European football leagues on the telly. This week in
England, the matches are looking and sounding a little different, maybe a lot different.
Alex Thomas is in the house.
This English Premier League bringing back fans this weekend as I understand it. Are these clubs and fans all ready, Alex?
ALEX THOMAS, WORLD SPORT: They say they've been ready for weeks if not months, Becky, hence their frustration it's taken so long for the
coronavirus restrictions to be eased. You can see the video of what happened when asked a Europa League game in front of 2,000 fans that the
numbers are tiny but the football world is watching with anticipation hoping this experiment will work.
In "WORLD SPORT" coming up, you can see what happened when I went to Brighton & Hove Albion, one of the ten premier league clubs that will allow
fans in.
ANDERSON: I'm so happy to see these fans but I will be so happy to get to a game myself. I know you must have been. Thank you.
Alex is up after the break, that's "WORLD SPORT." I will be back, back of that show for you. Stay with us.
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(WORLD SPORT)
ANDERSON: They're very touching. Thank you, Alex.
We will be back after this short break with more of CONNECT THE WORLD.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our numbers are at alarming rates. We sure could use some leadership in the White House.
BIDEN: From the first day I'm inaugurated, I'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 100,000 Americans are currently hospitalized with COVID-19.
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