Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Soon: U.S. House Impeachment Managers Finish Presenting Case; Biden Calls Out Xi on Unfair Trade and Human Rights; Saudi Women's Rights Activist Released From Prison; Vaccine Race: How Countries Are Getting It Done; Interview with Taoiseach Micheal Martin. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired February 11, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:22]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, who are you going to call? U.S. President Biden distilling the immense power of his office through his
phone.
I'm Becky Anderson. Hello, and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.
We're going to get to what is happening at the White House and how it affects all of us around the world in a moment.
First, though, I want to start with what are the most incredible images of a frightening insurrection that could have been a whole lot worse.
Democratic House impeachment managers finish presenting their case against Donald Trump in just a few hours. This, a day after they used riveting
videos to connect the dots between the former president's words and his rampaging supporters laying siege on the U.S. Capitol.
It's the first time the world has seen these images, and they lay out in remarkable detail the imminent danger facing the senators now serving as
jurors in Donald Trump's impeachment trial, other members of Congress and their staff.
And the former vice president, Mike Pence -- look at this one -- Pence and his family fleeing the Senate chamber with Secret Service agents moments
before it was breached, and right around the time Donald Trump was tweeting that Pence, quote, lacked courage for refusing to defy the U.S.
Constitution and overturn the election results he was charged with announcing.
Republican Senator Mitt Romney making a U-turn toward safety after a police officer caught him walking right towards the mob. Well, that officer very
possibly saving Romney from injury or death.
Well, here is the now Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer also turning around, and running with his security detail as insurgents closed in.
Well, that trial, of course, happening at the very same time as President Biden is intent on fixing America's ills both at home and on the world
stage, like making sure 100 million Americans are vaccinated in the next 79 days, like getting his nearly $2 trillion relief package passed. And if
that weren't enough, on his plate, shaping the world or the way that the world sees the man now occupying the Oval Office.
So, this hour, we are looking at who Mr. Biden has called up, who he is calling out and who he is just not calling at all.
First up, who President Biden has been talking to. Late on Wednesday, he spoke with Chinese President Xi Jinping. The two men are no stranger,
having met numerous times when Mr. Biden was vice president. Despite that, the call comes when tensions are high between the two countries.
The White House says Mr. Biden called out President Xi on things like unfair economic practices and on human rights. However, they also touched
on areas of potential cooperation, like climate change.
David Culver joins us live from Shanghai with a look at what came out of that call.
David, what I have delineated is pretty much how D.C. saw it. What's Beijing been telegraphing after the call?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the lines they continue to push here, Becky, is that they are looking for this mutual respect and this
cooperation. So, it seems very conciliatory especially when we come out of four years of what's been arguably the lowest point for U.S./China
relations under President Trump. President Trump putting pressure on China, certainly on the trade front and not as much, although in certain rhetoric,
yes, but not as much in action when it comes to human rights.
It's going to be interesting here to see if the Biden administration pushes forward on human rights, particularly within the Xinjiang region, the far
western region of China where ethnic minorities known as Uyghurs, Muslims, are being persecuted, and CNN has covered this at length.
And I show you this map here, you can see some of the other areas that are most contentious, if you will, involving China and the U.S. And it's
Xinjiang, it's Taiwan, and it's Hong Kong. The pro-democracy protests that were going on there, President Biden apparently coming on hot (ph), strong
in saying that President Xi needs to reconsider how they are approaching all of that.
China's response? We've seen this before. They say that is not the U.S.'s business. In fact, they say it's no one outside of China's business.
[10:05:00]
These are internal affairs, domestic issues, and, hence, they should be handled by China.
I want you to listen a little bit to how state media here is also describing this phone call, saying that if there were to be struggle
between the U.S. and China, that President Xi apparently said this would end in a disaster for the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAO XIAOFENG, ANCHOR, CCTV (through translator): Only cooperation benefits both China and the U.S. and conflict would lead to great harm. Cooperation
is the only correct choice for both sides. China/U.S. cooperation can accomplish many important things that benefit both countries and the world.
China/U.S. confrontation is definitely a disaster for both countries and the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER: Pre-COVID, what were we talking about, Becky? Well, you and I were talking about, what the rest of the world was, and that was the trade war
going on between the U.S. and China. In fact, it was about ten days before the lockdown in Wuhan that phase one of the trade deal was signed.
It feels many ages ago, but that's the reality of how things have quickly changed. And yet if this was put forward by the Trump administration, will
the Biden administration continue on with it? It seems as of now, they're going to continue to keep the tariffs in place. They'll continue to put
pressure on some of these Chinese corporations.
And while many were looking at this as perhaps the Trump administration was pushing the Biden administration into a corner with China as they exited
the White House, some also look at this now as giving Biden leverage in dealing with China going forward.
ANDERSON: David Culver is in Shanghai for us in China tonight -- David, thank you.
Well, as President Biden makes the rounds, one number not on his speed dial, at least not yet, is the Israeli prime minister. Mr. Biden hasn't
made the traditional courtesy call to Benjamin Netanyahu. And to some Israelis, it is starting to look like a snub.
Former Israeli Ambassador Danny Danon tweeting out, all the leaders Mr. Biden has telephoned and asking might it now be time to call the leader of
Israel, the closest ally of the U.S.? And he included apparently an old phone number for the prime minister's office.
Well, it may be interesting to note that Donald Trump called Mr. Netanyahu just two days after his inauguration. Mr. Biden's been in office for more
than three weeks. When his press secretary was asked about it, she touted the U.S./Israel relationship essentially telling Mr. Netanyahu, sit tight.
We'll get to you.
Well, CNN analyst Aaron David Miller says the message being sent to the Israeli leader, to quote Dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore.
Now from no calls to calling out -- the president calling out Myanmar's military following last week's coup, and dialing up the pressure with new
U.S. sanctions.
Joe Biden says Washington will prevent generals from having access to $1 billion in funds held in the U.S. and will freeze assets that benefit
Myanmar's, also known as Burma's, government. He also demanded the release of detained political leaders.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, I again call on the Burmese military to immediately release the Democratic political leaders
and activists and they are now detained, including Aung San Suu Kyi and she is -- and also Win Myint, the president. The military must relinquish power
it seized and demonstrate respect for the will of the people of Burma, as expressed in their November 8th election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Something President Biden is calling simply the right thing to do now.
After more than a thousand days, one of Saudi Arabia's most prominent women's rights activists has been released from prison. Loujain al-Hathloul
was arrested almost three years ago in a sweep that targeted opponents of the kingdom's law barring women from driving. That law has since been
removed.
Well, Hathloul's release comes just a week after President Biden vowed to pressure Saudi Arabia on its human rights record. She is still on probation
and could be arrested at any time for any perceived illegal activity.
CNN's Nic Robertson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): This is what a thousand and one nights in a Saudi jail have done to rights activist
Loujain al-Hathloul. She campaigned for women to be able to drive, was arrested May 2018, finally released Wednesday, despite refusing to back
down from her claims of torture which the government denies.
President Joe Biden pleased.
BIDEN: She was a powerful advocate for women's rights and releasing her was the right thing to do.
[10:10:04]
ROBERTSON: During a court appearance late last year, her family was shocked at her condition.
LINA AL-HATHLOUL, LOUJAIN'S SISTER: My parents saw that she was very weak, that her body was shaking and that her voice as well. But even with that,
she was still very focused and they wanted to read (ph) her whole defense, her and other activists who are being electrocuted, waterboarded, flogged,
beaten, deprived of sleep, force fed.
ROBERTSON: Now taking to Twitter, her family demanding all charges against them are dropped and her torturers held to account.
The U.S. State Department pushed for her release.
NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I wouldn't want to attach motives to the conduct of any other government. What I can say is what I
said previously. The release, in this case, would be a very positive development, something we would welcome. It is something we have pressed
for.
BIDEN: We're ending all American support for offensive operations in the war in Yemen.
ROBERTSON: Indeed, since President Joe Biden took over from his predecessor, Saudi is seeing a sea change in attitude.
BIDEN: Upholding universal rights, respecting the rule of law, and treating every person with dignity.
ROBERTSON: Human rights, a cornerstone of his administration. Late last year, Saudi government officials were convinced of Lujain's guilt.
ABDEL AL-JUBEIR, FORMER SAUDI MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I believe the charges have to do with trying to recruit people in a sensitive position in
the government in order to obtain sensitive documents and give them to hostile powers.
ROBERTSON: Back then, the country's minister of state for foreign affairs says Saudi wouldn't bow to international pressure to release Loujain.
AL-JUBEIR: We're not subject to pressure. We don't allow people to put pressure on us in order to do things that are against our interests.
ROBERTSON: It's not clear if minds are changed now, but in the past week, several other high-profile detainees have received sudden leniency.
Last Thursday, two Saudi American activists, Dr. Badr al-Ibrahim and Salah al-Haidar, detained for 673 days, were released on bail, pending court
appearances.
On Sunday, Ali al-Nimr, a teenager when he was arrested for taking part in an anti-government protest in 2012, had his death sentence commuted to ten
years, release likely later this year.
And Monday, the country's powerful crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman, MBS, announced draft reforms, in part to improve human rights, a government
statement said.
France's president, Emmanuel Macron, welcomed Lujain's release.
The U.N.'s top human rights defender called one Saudi to release all others imprisoned for their human rights work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson joins us now live from London. He's been speaking to his sources in the Kingdom extensively.
And, Nic, just how significant are these moves by the Kingdom, and what are your sources telling you about why these releases are happening now?
ROBERTSON: Well, I think one of the things that we've really discovered in the last couple of hours, Becky, because al-Hathloul's family have given a
press conference is the depth and strength of feeling they have about this situation. No surprise, they talked through the decision to get
international help to get Loujain, the sister, released.
They said that they tried, going all the Saudi routes, and that hadn't worked. They thanked President Biden for bringing his pressure. They were
asked the question, do you think that these changes and moves that we're seeing now by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are genuine?
Lina, Loujian's sister, answers that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL-HATHLOUL: Everything he's doing is for his image and to be legitimate, to be the one the west chooses to be the ally and inside of the country as
well, he did a coup. He's not the one who is supposed to be crown prince. He imprisoned his rival.
So there is -- he's not legitimate. The only way he can be accepted is to give an appearance of a reformer as an open person, as someone who wants to
change things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Becky, both you and I know this is completely unusual to have people speaking so publicly, so negatively about Saudi leadership figures.
[10:15:05]
The family speaks right now, clearly it appears with the backing in some way or another of the United States, only because they thanked President
Biden. President Biden said it was a good move. The State Department said there was pressure to bring this about.
They speak passionately and strongly about how they feel that the country is being governed, about the changes they want to see and they also said
that they want to see justice brought against those people who tortured their sister. The government denies the torture. But they even named one of
MBS's, the crown prince's top advisers, Saud al-Qahtani, as being involved in that torture.
This was very strong, powerful from at the moment it appears to be a legitimate, moral high ground that they appear -- that they are sort of --
the family is speaking from because the sister has been released -- Becky.
ANDERSON: What do you make of the calls that Joe Biden has made? We're looking at who is in and who is out on Biden's sort of foreign policy
priorities briefly, Nic.
ROBERTON: Yeah, look, clearly he's exerting influence. I think you can say that in Saudi, that's sort of a win for him, right? The pressure was
applied to have Loujain released. That's happened.
Clearly, he hasn't called Benjamin Netanyahu yet. It was interesting to many European leaders that the first call that came was to Boris Johnson in
London, but let's not forget, the United Kingdom government is sending one of its brand-new aircraft carriers to support U.S. military maneuvers in
the South China Seas. And China is the biggest problem for President Biden and his -- in foreign policy terms.
So, Biden is making the calls, it seems, that are most important and pressing for him. News will catch up with him -- Myanmar, Navalny, et
cetera. But clearly he doesn't prioritize Netanyahu right now.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is out of London for you. He is our international diplomatic editor. Busy times. Not just for Joe Biden but for Nic with his
portfolio as well. Thank you, Nic.
As I was thinking about Loujain's release earlier, it remains me that today marks exactly 31 years since these scenes -- Nelson Mandela walking home as
a free man. I remember watching these scenes live as I'm sure many of you do. The arc of history is long, sometimes all too long, but it often bends
towards justice.
Still ahead -- we'll connect you with two countries racing to get their citizens vaccinated against COVID-19.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How do you convince people? Is it a religious argument?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We present different arguments depending on who the audience are.
REPORTER: The urgency here is palpable. They've just got five minutes. This is carefully timed to get the doses from the dry ice packed
transportation systems into the ultra low freezers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We're in a mosque in the U.K. and we are in Israel. The challenges that these two countries are facing and how they are rising to
it.
(COIMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:20:22]
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from our Middle East programming hub here in Abu Dhabi, connecting you this hour to COVID-19
vaccine rollouts around the world. These are the ten countries with the highest per capita daily vaccination rates. You can see the UAE is topping
the list followed by Israel, Chile, the U.K. and then the U.S. critical to keep in mind as we look at the chart like this, that this virus is
spreading much quicker than people are being vaccinated.
Take a listen to Germany's chancellor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We have a situation where the vaccination campaign is gaining speed. But in the forthcoming
months, this is not going to give us the sort of collective protection but individual protection. Many people expect that the time has come to show
very clear easings, openings and we know the danger of the mutations may well destroy any success.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, across the world then, vaccine efforts are in a race against time. In the U.S., one of the countries topping the per capita list
we just saw, about 10 percent of the population, almost 34 million Americans have received at least one dose. Some 10 million people have been
given both doses.
And it appears more Americans are now more willing to get a COVID vaccine. A Gallup poll of over 4,000 Americans finds 71 percent would take one. That
is up from 65 percent in late December and only 50 percent back in September.
Well, the United Kingdom is in the vaccine swing of things, as it were, getting more than 13 million shots into the arms of its citizens, one of
the fastest rollouts in the world. But the country's chief scientific adviser cautions -- is cautious, arguing it is still too soon to draw a
direct link between vaccinating more people and falling case numbers.
And there was another concern, not everyone in the U.K. trusts the vaccines. That is especially acute in some communities.
CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has been finding out -- Salma.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, Becky.
A vaccination program that's moving at break-neck speed but early studies show that some communities, particularly communities of color, are being
left out. So we followed two local champions who are trying to bring that vaccination program into their communities, and we found it's not just
about the conspiracy theories and myths online. It's about trust in public institutions.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ (voice over): A rare gathering under lockdown, Friday prayer at a mosque. Today's sermon (INAUDIBLE) is Imam Qari Asim's fact check for the
faithful.
IMAM QARI ASIM, MAKKAH MOSQUE, LEEDS ENGLAND: There are people who have understandable questions and understandable concerns about the vaccine.
ABDELAZIZ: People of color across Britain were hit much harder by COVID- 19. Pushing communities like this to turn to each other for answers.
ASIM: This vaccine is absolutely halal. The vaccine that is being used in the U.K., they are permissible in Islam.
ABDELAZIZ: More than 100 mosques are taking part in this nationwide effort led by Muslims for Muslims to tackle vaccine myths into conspiracy
theories.
After prayer, Imam (inaudible) tells us the message which was delivered in three languages is just as important as the messenger.
ASIM: As an Imam, I have had to mediate on a number of occasions where the elder generations, the parents want to have the vaccines but actually some
of their children were saying, don't have the vaccine. I do not want one more life being lost just based on misinformation.
ABDELAZIZ: How do you convince people, is it a religious argument? Is it a scientific argument?
ASIM: We have a panel of experts who are micro/nano chip experts as well as doctors and you know, scholars of Islam. So, we present a different
argument depending on who the audience are.
ABDELAZIZ: This doesn't impact the Muslim community alone. Government study shows that black and minority ethnic groups across this country have
higher vaccine hesitancy, and lower trust in public institution. It's a potent combination and it could cost lives.
[11:25:05]
That's why members of London's Hindu community chose home turf. The (INAUDIBLE) Indian temple school is now a public vaccination center.
The woman behind the idea is temple devotee and health care professional, Hasmita Patel.
HASMITA PATEL, HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL, TEMPLE DEVOTEE: I am very proud of this school. Every day when I come in, I can view the temple and I can
feel satisfied that you know, I'm in my community and I'm serving my community.
ABDELAZIZ: Officials in this diverse neighborhood of Brent admitted they failed to engage effectively with minorities at the start of the pandemic.
Patel says these systemic inequalities cost lives.
PATEL: When somebody is concerned, it is really important to speak to them in their own languages because that comforts them. That's what they
understand especially in the older population.
ABDELAZIZ: We followed one temple member as he gets his shot. His first language is Gujarati but his joy is clear.
How do you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very happy.
ABDELAZIZ: Very, very happy.
When public leadership failed these communities they mobilized and organize to fight for their own.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ (on camera): It's hard to overemphasize, Becky, just how hard- hit these communities were by COVID-19. These local champions, yes, of course, they're facing socioeconomic conditions but they're also fighting
an uphill battle against structural inequalities to try to vaccinate their own -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Salma Abdelaziz with that story out of the U.K. -- Salma, thank you for that.
Well, from England to Israel now, held up as an example of a country that is doing everything right in its vaccination program. You can see it
leading the world in terms of the percentage of the population that's already received shots, followed by the UAE, the U.K. and the U.S. the data
sort of varies according to what we actually look at, doesn't it?
CNN's Sam Kiley goes inside Israel's vaccination program for a look now at how the country is getting it done.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the race to herd immunity, and Israel is in the lead. Close to 40 percent
of the population have had their first COVID shot, nearly 70 percent of people in their 50s and 94 percent in their 70s.
The vaccines are rushed from nearby Ben-Gurion Airport to here, an office and warehouse complex more than a mile long.
The urgency here is palpable. They've just got five minutes. This is being carefully timed to get the doses from the dry ice packed transportation
systems into the ultra low freezers.
Now, the striking thing about this is that they make it look pretty straightforward. But this is a distribution system that has eluded much of
the rest of the world.
The aim here is to vaccinate the target population, all Israelis citizens over 16 by the end of next month. Each of these freezers store enough
vaccine doses for 200,000 people. They were installed in a few days after the government secured supplies early on.
Distribution is efficient largely because Israel also has a national health service with computerized medical records linked to IDs and Israelis are
good in a crisis.
URI GAT-PALASH, CEO, TEVA LOGISTICS CO.: Israel by nature is experienced in emergency cases. So it's a matter of mindset. The people know how to
approach, how to improvise, how to adapt themselves to the changing situation. I think this is a key.
KILEY: Because of the military experience you've had?
GAT-PALASH: I will take the general situation that Israel is constantly in.
KILEY: Almost all Israelis complete national military service. The nation has been involved in numerous conflicts since its foundation in 1948.
Beating COVID, seen as just another battle for national survival.
The vaccines are moved into cold storage, repacked overnight, ready for national distribution. Through hundreds of clinics, mobile units and rented
buildings like this basketball stadium in Tel Aviv.
IDO HADARI, SPOKESMAN, MACCABI HEALTHCARE SERVICES: The fact that the managers and most of the staff here did military, it helps.
KILEY: Israel remains under lockdown. Its infection rates are falling but officials fear they can climb again after a mass turnout by ultra orthodox
Jews at recent funerals in Jerusalem. But for most Israelis, the national score for vaccinations? Ten.
Sam Kiley, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: It's been a decade since the so-called Arab spring. But how have things changed across the Middle East in the ten years since?
[10:30:04]
We'll take a look at that with a CNN reporter who was on the scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI ANCHOR: The Irish Republic, an E.U. member (ph), cracking down on nonessential border crossings with Northern Ireland by
imposing fines starting this week. Ireland currently in a lockdown which includes a strict travel ban.
Well, Ireland's Taoiseach Micheal Martin has only been prime minister since June, landing in the middle of this global pandemic. The country is in
lockdown after easing restrictions in the lead up to Christmas which ultimately led to the highest infection rate in the world by January.
Well, just a short time ago, he admitted that easing restrictions wasn't a wise move. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHEAL MARTIN, IRISH PRIME MINISTER: If we knew then what we know now, we certainly wouldn't have made that decision. The general advice, public
advice called a level three, we had been in a lockdown position for six weeks which have brought numbers to the lowest in Europe.
And to be fair, I think there was no sense at the time, there was no modeling at the time that would have predicted what eventually happened.
And I think certainly the socialization in advance of Christmas was a problem. The seasonality was a problem. And also clearly the variant, the
U.K. variant was a factor. Not the only factor, of course, but that combined with socialization and seasonality led to a perfect storm.
And if we had known that when we made the decision to open up, we certainly would have done so in a much more restrictive way. And the -- you know, we
have been hit with a third wave where the variant is now 70 percent of all cases in Ireland, and so that said, we have been the fastest, I think,
around in terms of getting numbers down, but yet they are coming down from a high level.
And so, we're going to stay with what we call level five restrictions which is essentially a lockdown, and we will continue that for quite some time
yet, to get hospitalizations down, to get people in intensive care units down, and also case numbers down. And that's the direction to travel right
now.
ANDERSON: So you do concede it was a mistake?
MARTIN: Yeah, we wouldn't have done that, if we'd known that. I think we - - it's not a decision we would have taken given what has happened.
[10:35:00]
ANDERSON: Clearly getting people vaccinated is a major factor influencing any decisions that you all make to ease restrictions. Deputy Prime Minister
Leo Varadkar told RTE Radio yesterday that Ireland could start to emerge from the strict lockdown in place between April and June.
And can you just give us more detail on that timeline?
MARTIN: Yeah. First of all, our vaccination program is rolling out. It's very much dependent on the supply of vaccines into the European Union, into
Ireland. And as we get vaccines into the country, we administer them very, very quickly, concentrating on older people, residents in nursing homes and
the staff there and frontline health care workers, which will have an impact on reducing mortality and reducing severe illness.
We expect the vaccination program to ramp up in the second quarter and -- in terms of April, May and June. And so, we will continue with severe
restrictions for the foreseeable future. And we're making decisions finally on that on the 20th of this month, the week beginning of the 20th this
month.
But our priority right now is to have a phased return to schools, and that began this week with the special education -- children with special
education needs and will continue. And also construction in terms of house- building.
ANDERSON: Let me just be quite clear then. Your government has said it is hoping to see 70 percent to 80 percent of people in Ireland vaccinated by
the end of September. Is that still the goal?
MARTIN: That is still the goal. It's been disrupted somewhat by issues with the AstraZeneca vaccine and its supply. We're not getting the same
level of supply that we had thought we would get at the commencement of the year and that's part of the wider E.U. procurement issue with AstraZeneca.
But we are getting higher volumes of Pfizer-BioNTech in the second quarter and Moderna vaccines, and we're eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Johnson
& Johnson vaccine, which I'm told will be some time in early April if not before that.
And all of that will help us to significantly increase the numbers of people who will be vaccinated.
So I think the autumn deadline, our target is probably a better phrase or word, is something we will strive towards, because the vaccine story has
been a see-saw (ph) one and I think there can be ups as well as setbacks in relation to it.
We do have our infrastructure in place to vaccinate as soon as the vaccines come in. And that will have an impact then on the restrictions and relaxing
restrictions, because it makes sense to be cautious in relation to opening up now that we have a vaccination program and that we have vaccines to roll
out.
We didn't have that last year. We have the vaccines this year. I think that gives light at the end of the tunnel.
The only additional point I would make is that I think globally, we have to intensify vaccination efforts because it's important that the entire globe
gets vaccinated, not just countries who are wealthier and who are in a position to do it earlier.
ANDERSON: Sir, I want to discuss with you the E.U. vaccine rollout which has been described by many as an unmitigated disaster. I want to get your
response to that, but let me just get your response to the following news in the past hour or so that Germany is now dealing with three aggressive
mutations.
And the German chancellor herself has warned that people should, and I quote her here, "Prepare for new variants to become dominant." She has also
warned ominously that mutations could destroy the vaccine's success.
You have said that the highly contagious U.K. variant now accounts for three quarters of all cases in Ireland. That's certainly according to your
health minister.
Do you share the German chancellor's concerns that mutations could destroy the vaccine's success at this point?
MARTIN: Well, look, the new variations or the new variants could undermine the vaccination effort depending on certain vaccines seemed to have
stronger properties in relation (ph) to combating some of the variants.
But that's why I said it's important that, globally, we tackle this issue because there's little point in advanced and wealthier countries getting
vaccinated if developing nations do not because mutations will develop. And that's natural in the evolution of a virus.
So it's very, very important that we look at this from a global perspective now, and I think there needs to be a meeting of minds from the big nations
of the world in terms of -- from a global perspective getting this right. That would also mean ramping up manufacturing capacity across the globe in
respect of vaccines.
[10:40:00]
But that said, I think we have to proceed with the vaccine program as we have it because already, we're seeing signs of an impact on --
ANDERSON: OK.
MARTIN: -- on outbreaks, for example, within hospitals and outbreaks within nursing homes. They are reducing as we vaccinate. And so, this is a
race not just against time but it's --
ANDERSON: Right.
MARTIN: -- a battle against a very deadly and evolving virus. And I think some of those vaccine producers have capacities to alter the nature and
composition of the vaccines to make them more -- stronger in terms of new variants.
ANDERSON: You are an E.U. member. So, let's specifically talk about what is going on with regard the E.U.
So far, less than 4 percent of the European Union's population has received at least one dose of the COVID vaccine. By comparison, 19 percent of the
U.K.'s population have received their first jab.
This week, in the European Parliament, the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, addressed failures in the E.U.'s rollout.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT (through translator): Today, in the fight against the virus, we're still not where we want to
be. We were late to authorize. We were too optimistic when it came to massive production and perhaps, we were too confident that what we ordered
would actually be delivered on time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The president of the European Commission admitting mistakes were made.
Was the decision, sir, to have a unified vaccine buying strategy a mistake?
MARTIN: No, it was not. I think that is the correct strategy. I think member states competing with each other would have been, in my view, wrong,
and would have undermined the vaccine effort.
I mean, we've just discussed the importance of a global approach. And if we don't have a global approach, every member state becomes a prisoner in
their own states because of the inability to travel with variants and so on. And so, from an E.U. bloc position, (inaudible), it made absolute sense
--
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: What about -- what about from the perspective of an Irish citizen?
MARTIN: -- that we would work collectively in terms of a vaccine procurement.
Certainly from the perspective of an Irish citizen, because I wouldn't have liked the prospect of competing with larger member states across Europe and
-- to procure vaccines -- that would have made it much more challenging and much more difficult.
I think one of the issues here has been the arrival of the third wave just about time that vaccines were beginning to be rolled out. I can remember at
the end of November, the president of the Commission saying to us, the first three months, the volumes will be low. It's no surprise to me,
because we were told that at the beginning of December.
But, of course, the new variant arrived and mutations started. And we had the U.K., in particular, the B117 --
ANDERSON: Sure.
MARTIN: -- and the South African variant, the Brazilian variant causing real concerns, a spike in numbers, because the numbers we've seen in the
third wave do not compare with the second wave or the first wave.
And so, you have this race then developing. People become very impatient, understandably, in terms of the rollout of the vaccines. But I think this
isn't -- this isn't a kind of one battle. It's a war against a virus.
The fullness of time, the various strategies will be judged. I think the U.K. raced ahead with AstraZeneca and fast tracked the authorization. I
understand why. And I think, you know, to be fair to the U.K. and to U.K. science, they saw the variant coming before most because of their genomic
sequencing capacity which is much superior to anyone in the world.
And so -- but on the other hand, I think President Ursula von der Leyen is correct in saying that when you put vaccines into healthy people, you know,
normally, we adopt a cautious approach and we await authorization.
ANDERSON: Right.
MARTIN: In the European Union context, authorization was slower than the U.K. and Israel and other places. And because of the third wave, that has
kind of, if you like, compounded the situation in terms of people anxiously waiting to get the vaccine.
ANDERSON: You must be concerned that the bloc's slow rollout is eroding solidarity between member states as they face growing pressure to get more
doses to their respective populations.
MARTIN: I mean, I believe -- we had a meeting last month. I could sense the - I suppose, the challenges on individual member states and prime
ministers. But in my view, the bloc coming together made sense.
[10:45:00]
I think, though, President von der Leyen made an interesting point yesterday at the European Parliament that there was an overestimation of
the delivery schedules or the manufacturing capacity. And I do think more work needs to be done in terms of, how do we globally ensure faster
manufacturing of the vaccines --
ANDERSON: Right.
MARTIN: -- and delivery of vaccines across the globe?
And I don't think it's beyond our capacity if we work collectively. I mean, Ireland is a strong life sciences center, as you know, many of the major
pharmaceutical companies, manufacturing companies are in Ireland.
So, from our perspective, we think companies need to look at this again in terms of the speed at which we can produce the vaccines and deliver them.
And, you know, we have a schedule. We're patient. We're holding the nerve and I think, likewise, member states, other member states should do the
same.
ANDERSON: Ursula von der Leyen has also apologized for irrationally triggering Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol two weeks ago in a
row (ph) about the vaccine distribution between U.K. and Europe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VON DER LEYEN: As far as the mechanism goes, allow me a word on the island of Ireland. The bottom line is that mistakes were made in the process
leading up to the decision. And I deeply regret that.
But in the end, we got it right. And I can reassure you that my commission will do its utmost to protect the peace of Northern Ireland just as it has
done throughout the entire Brexit process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Critics say this, quote, "mistake" undermined the E.U.'s commitment to Northern Ireland's fragile peace process. Do you share those
concerns?
MARTIN: It was a mistake. I admire the honesty of President Ursula von der Leyen and very, very quickly coming to that realization.
And when I engaged with Ursula on this issue an hour after it had been announced, she moved quickly to defuse it, to reverse it, and I think, to
be fair, the European Union has been consistent and a committed partner in terms of the search for peace in Northern Ireland, has provided significant
funding over the years through the peace initiative to underpin that peace. And I have no doubt about the integrity of its commitment to peace on the
island of Ireland, and it regrets what happened.
But I always -- I always think it's a very good sign when people own up very quickly to a mistake, take action to reverse that mistake, and then
work to contribute to repairing whatever damage may have been caused.
I think there's equally an obligation to all of us on the island of Ireland and in Northern Ireland to cool it and to dial down the rhetoric and to
work to calm tensions, and to work to make the trade and cooperation agreement between the United Kingdom and European Union work and to make
sure that Northern Island's unique access to the single market, notwithstanding Brexit and its continuing access obviously to the U.K.
market gives us -- gives it opportunities economically into the future that could help to consolidate and underpin that peace into the future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: That's the Irish Taoiseach Micheal Martin. And more from our conversation including Dublin's relations with Washington with a new U.S.
president who is a proud Irish-American, and whether the Taoiseach would travel to Washington for St. Patrick's Day should the president invite him
to do so. That will be online shortly at CNN.com.
Taking a short break. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:50:55]
ANDERSON: Ten years ago today, Egyptian strongman Hosni Mubarak was removed from power in what was seen as a tremendous success of the so-
called Arab Spring, a movement that spread across the Middle East and other parts of the world. Civilian protests forcing change. But a decade on,
civil war, new protests and humanitarian crises.
Now, CNN's Ben Wedeman was in the thick of things back in 2011 covering the unrest. He's been taking a look back at that time. I do want to warn you,
some of what you are about to see is graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It began in Tunisia. The people toppled the aging dictator, Zine El Abidine Ben Ali.
AL QUESLATI, RETIRED POLICE OFFICER: I'm afraid that all -- the other regions of the Arabic countries, they will, they will, and they will.
They're afraid. And that this revolution will -- will --
WEDEMAN: Succeed.
QUESLATI: Succeed.
WEDEMAN: The revolt spread to Egypt. To Libya.
This demonstration in Benghazi gives you an idea of the passion of the people of this city. The passion of so many Libyans.
People rose up in Bahrain. In Syria. And in Yemen.
Egypt's Hosni Mubarak resigned after 29 years in power and the army moved in, applauded as saviors. But the illusion that the people and the army are
one didn't last.
The men in uniform soon reverted to their old ways, the boot and the club.
After a year of rule by Egypt's first ever democratically elected government, led by the Muslim Brotherhood, the military rode a wave of
discontent and ceased power. Killing almost 1,000 of the ousted government supporters and imprisoning tens of thousands more.
General, now President Abdul Fatah al-Sisi has crushed even the mildest forms of dissent, spending hundreds of billions of dollars on megaprojects
reminiscent of his pheronic (ph) predecessors.
In Bahrain, the autocrats of the gulf led by Saudi Arabia joined to crush the uprising.
Yemen is now a civil war and a regional war all in one, among the worst humanitarian disasters of the 21st century so far.
While in Libya, the rebels killed Moammar Gadhafi, but the uprising split the country between still-warring rival governments.
In Syria, the revolt morphed into a sectarian bloodbath, a macabre theater of regional and international rivalries, killing more than 400,000 people,
driving millions into exile, opening the door to extremists like ISIS and others.
In the end, the foreign powers that cheered on the uprising turned away, going back to the old formula of better the devil you know. The so-called
Arab spring, like Pandora's Box, released pain, suffering and sorrow. But the hope it also released lives on.
The memory of those hated days hasn't vanished says Amnesty International's Heba Morayef.
HEBA MORAYEF, MENA REGIONAL DIRECTOR, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: The entire generations who saw these Arab autocrats fall in 2011, one after the other.
[10:55:00]
And that's an incredibly powerful idea in terms of what can be achieved through people power.
WEDEMAN: The struggle for dignity and freedom in the Arab world is long and bloody. But it may eventually bend toward justice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: And Ben joining us now from Beirut where he is based these days.
You strike a somewhat optimistic note in that report at the end, about a period -- the report about a period that many say ultimately achieved very
little, Ben. Your response?
WEDEMAN: I think we have to take a somewhat longer view at what has happened over the last ten years. The last ten years have been horrific in
terms of the loss of life, destruction, you name it. But I think there's a growing awareness that the dictatorships that today we treat as permanent
are not.
That the younger generation is becoming more and more technologically savvy. For every technology that's developed to repress, there are
technologies developed to get around those means of oppression. And you cannot live in a vacuum in terms of politics. People know what's going on
in the world.
And so dictatorships rise, dictatorships fall, and that is going to happen eventually in the Middle East. Injustice is not permanent. And, therefore,
as people learn how to organize, for instance, in 2011, the young people who came into Tahrir Square were almost shocked by how easy, only about 800
people were killed in that uprising, it was to bring down Mubarak.
I think now people in Sudan and Lebanon and even in Egypt are learning that if you organize properly and you think ahead, perhaps you can bring down
these dictatorships, but I think no one is under the illusion that it's going to be easy -- Becky.
ANDERSON: An important date to mark, Ben. Thank you.
That's it from us. Good night.
END
