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Fighting Islamic Extremism in the Vast African Sahel; Defiant Coup Protesters Return to Myanmar Streets; Interview with U.N. Special Envoy on Myanmar Christine Schraner Burgener Regarding Eyes of the World on Myanmar's Military; Scientists Solve Mystery of Massive Siberian Craters. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired February 17, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST (voice-over): Tonight, we bring you an undertold story with a huge impact on many parts of the world. What's
happening in Africa's Sahel region is just ahead.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MYO HTET, ACTIVIST: We want to fight to the end. We will fight until we get back our rights, until we get back our democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Demonstrators defying the threat of violence in Myanmar. We speak to the country's U.N. special envoy.
Then world leaders voice their concerns over vaccine inequality. How the U.N. plans to jump in and help out is up next.
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ANDERSON: Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson live from CNN's Middle East broadcasting hub here in Abu Dhabi.
I'm going to start this hour with the very latest on a story that is often undertold but is absolutely critical to all of us, wherever you are
watching today. It is one of the most volatile and complex geostrategic affairs on Earth, denying so far both military might and diplomacy in
finding a fix.
And it is unfolding right here in Africa's Sahel region, a semi-arid landscape stretching all the way from the Atlantic Ocean eastward through
Mauritania, through Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, Chad and into Sudan.
And it has become a breeding ground of terror groups that trade in people, in drugs and in fear, all surviving through large patches of lawless and
stateless territories. And some of the most powerful countries in the world have been projecting force there, Spain, France and America.
Let me explain a little further for you. Right now France promising to step up efforts to help the Sahel decapitate, to quote, the Al Qaeda and
affiliated groups there. President Emmanuel Macron spoke at a virtual summit of the G5 Sahel countries and their international allies.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Here you see them gathered precoronavirus pandemic as the region's former colonial power. France has a unique role in this
fight. It has thousands of troops on the ground, battling Islamic militants. But it is no secret that France is searching for an exit
strategy.
For now those troops will remain bolstered by a new pledge from Chad to send 1,200 troops of its own. Mr. Macron says he did consider a massive
withdrawal of French forces but decided a rushed exit would be a mistake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Our objective is not to fight against all militant groups that can exist in the region.
That will be a never-ending war. Our objective is to fight against identified terrorist groups, who threaten the stability of sovereign states
in the region and the security of the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Away from the cameras, the summits and the statements, this story is really about the people of the Sahel, the ones who are suffering
under the grip of Islamic extremists.
Armed insurgents have ravaged the area for years, capturing territory and launching indiscriminate attacks on civilians, sparking a major
humanitarian crisis.
More than 2 million people have been forced from their homes. Many of these people are on the move. Now the U.S. secretary of state weighing in,
voicing the new U.S. administration's concerns and warning that counterterrorism operations aren't enough to bring lasting peace and
stability to the region.
CNN's David McKenzie has reported from more than 30 African countries over the years, covering the continent's biggest news events, not least the
story of the Sahel. He joins us tonight from Johannesburg.
It's good to have you with us. Let's start with the very latest news. France, the region's former colonial power, after years of military
intervention against Islamist militants, David, its counterinsurgency operation has cost billions. Yet violence persists.
[10:05:00]
ANDERSON: Provide us some context here and a sense of strategy.
What have we been hearing from President Macron?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're hearing is really a reality check. President Macron at the G5 virtual summit, as you describe,
really has seen that they cannot, in his mind, take troops out of the region.
They are based out of Chad, more than 5,000 troops. It's cost billions of euros since 2014 to do this operation, where French troops have been on the
ground in harm's way. Now more than 50 French troops killed during these years of trying to get stability in this Sahel region, not just in Chad but
mostly in Niger, Mali and Burkina Faso.
Burkina Faso is particularly troubling because it was seen as somewhat of a stable country in the last few years, though it really has slipped into the
same sort of chaos, the same kind of violence from these insurgent Islamic groups linked to Al Qaeda and ISIS.
But I think that Macron knows, as do the other leaders of these countries, that the military's response isn't enough and that the very hard work of
nation building and services to the people is what really needs to be done.
The problem is that these undergoverned spaces where these groups basically are the law and are the law both in terms of the gun and in terms of tax
and other aspects, is extremely challenging to really put down. And they have been wrestling with this for years, Becky.
ANDERSON: David, humanitarian agencies tell me that they are prioritizing Sahel as a major, major concern; 2 million people displaced, many of those
people on the move. European countries very concerned about those that are on the move, potentially through Libya and into Italy and indeed through
North Africa into Spain.
And as you rightly point out there is a huge issue in the trafficking of not just people but of arms as well. The new U.S. secretary of state is
weighing in. He has suggested, as you have just pointed out, that this is not just a crisis that should be seen with a military fix.
Can you just talk us through where you believe this new U.S. administration is in its thinking with regard this region?
MCKENZIE: Well, I think they're trying to figure out just how they need to play their cards in the Sahel region. The U.S. has for some years now had a
very significant military presence, most notably, Becky, with the drone base out of Niger, where they are operating in that region, specifically
targeting the leadership of Al Qaeda and ISIS-linked groups.
You're rarely seen that those groups flourish, unfortunately, in these parts of the Sahel. But you touch on a very important point, this issue of
migration. Seen from the prism of a European lens, there has been a major policy draw card for the Europeans, to stop people from moving through
these ungoverned spaces and into Europe.
And we've seen those dramatic images of people desperate enough to leave the Sahel to get to Europe on boats through the Mediterranean. The problem
is that anyone you speak to, whether it be NGOs or diplomats, the problem needs to be fixed on the ground in these countries by the countries
themselves.
But that is a very tall order. And you need security first before you can deal with some of these issues. There's just a vacuum of leadership on the
ground in Mali, parts of Niger and certainly in Burkina Faso. And so what secretary of state Blinken said is that not just guns are needed but
policies that bring services to the people so they aren't desperate to leave.
ANDERSON: Without a fix, David, what happens?
MCKENZIE: Well, I think this could just spiral further under control -- out of control and the depressing thing is we've been having these kinds of
conversations about the Sahel for some time.
And another aspect that's worth mentioning and is critical to all of this is climate change. The Sahel is in a part of Africa that is seeing more
rapid climate change, more desertification in this region on the borders of the Sahara. And all of this is coming in together to create this
humanitarian catastrophe.
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MCKENZIE: You mentioned the 2 million number. More than a million people just in Burkina Faso alone have been pushed from their homes because of
violence and hunger. More than 2,000 schools in that region are closed.
You can imagine the prospects of the youth of this region, as they foresee a future which is under the gun of Islamic insurgents, not being helped by
national governments.
And what options do they have as the climate change crisis increases?
So a lot needs to be done and sooner rather than later.
ANDERSON: David McKenzie is on the story for you. David, thank you.
The Sahel, a strategic priority for Spain. I spoke to the Spanish foreign minister recently and asked her about the situation. Here's what she told
me.
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ARANCHA GONZALEZ LAYA, SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: This is the region that poses the greatest geopolitical challenge. It's a vast region. Huge parts
of this region are areas of nonstates. There is no state presence.
And we see a spread of terrorism. We see a spread of human trafficking, weapons trafficking, drug trafficking, all kinds of illicit and illegal
activities. But we also see lots of suffering for the population.
I traveled last year to the five countries in the Sahel. And I could see the expectations that the populations have, the men and especially the
women, that, as always, in these kind of conflicts, are always at the shorter end of the stick for peace and stability.
And if there is a country in Europe that understands what's happening in Sahel, it's Spain. We are the closest country to Africa in the entire
European Union.
ANDERSON: At this point, is it likely the E.U. will be expanding its security presence there?
And if so, just describe how you see that evolving.
LAYA: There are many parts of this region that are off limits because the development financing cannot enter them as they are too insecure. And this
is where we have to focus the attention, in the areas that are off limits, in the areas that -- where the state needs to return cautiously.
In order for the state to return, we need probably a bigger military presence. We also need to work with police forces, not just military but
also police, proximity police.
Spain has been training a lot of proximity police forces in the G5 countries along the Sahel because we know that it requires the state to
slowly but steadily return to those countries, to those spaces, so that the citizens can return to those spaces, so that the development cooperation
can return to this.
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ANDERSON: The Spanish foreign minister speaking to me recently here in the UAE. Next hour, we'll speak with the U.N. undersecretary general for
humanitarian affairs and emergency relief, Mark Lowcock.
We'll look at how the threat of Islamic extremism is contributing to the humanitarian crisis in the Sahel region and discuss what he believes needs
to happen next. That's Mark Lowcock, next hour here on CONNECT THE WORLD.
We'll now connect you to a recurring nightmare happening just south of Sahel, namely school kidnappings in Nigeria. A number of students and
staffers are now missing after armed gunmen stormed a school in the Rafi district of Niger state on Wednesday.
Witnesses say the attackers showed up in the middle of the night, killing one student. They kidnapped dozens of students and employees of the
secondary school in the city of Kagara.
President Buhari's office says he's sending security officials to coordinate a rescue operation. Two months ago, gunmen attacked another
school in Nigeria, abducting more than 300 students. They were later released.
To Myanmar now, where many inside and outside the country fear a violent military crackdown may be imminent. Still, the anti-coup protesters not
backing down. Thousands turned out on the streets of Yangon today, despite a troop deployment and an internet shutdown.
One CNN journalist says the demonstrations are the biggest since the military staged its coup more than two weeks ago. No violence has been
reported there so far. But a U.N. official warns the country's military doesn't make idle threats and warns of a potential bloodbath if the two
sides converge.
Adding fuel to the dissent on the streets, new charges filed against Myanmar's ousted leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, relating to a national disaster
law. Her next court hearing is on March the 1st.
[10:15:00]
ANDERSON: Myanmar's military has a long history of repressive control over the country, a situation that protesters seem determined to end once and
for all. CNN's Clarissa Ward has more.
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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For weeks, the streets of Myanmar have been flooded as hundreds of thousands
have come out to reject the military coup that overthrew the country's democratic government on February 1st.
"We are one," these protesters chants. They are met with water cannons and rubber bullets. But still they hold their ground. Among them, teachers,
lawyers, doctors, even monks, part of a civil disobedience movement that aims to bring the country to a halt and put pressure on the military
regime.
Many flash three fingers, a symbol of defiance taken from the "Hunger Games" movies; 31-year-old activist Myo Htet has been out on the streets
every day.
HTET: Every day we see more and more energy on the street, people are very committed because it's very energetic here against the leadership.
WARD (voice-over): But there are signs that a military crackdown may be imminent. Civilian leaders have been arrested and much of the country's
internet regularly shut off. Already blood has been shed; 19-year-old Mya Thwe Thwe Khaing was shot in the head last week while attending a protest.
She has been on life support since.
Myanmar, also known as Burma, has endured decades of repressive military rule. Sandwiched between India and China, the country of 54 million is rich
in oil and gas. In 2015, a democratically elected civilian government under Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi was allowed to take power.
But her position has always been precarious. Suu Kyi has been detained since the coup, along with the Burmese president. Last week U.S. President
Joe Biden announced sanctions against the generals.
BIDEN: The people of Burma are making their voices heard and the world is watching. We'll be ready to impose additional measures.
WARD (voice-over): But as the situation continues to escalate, U.N. special rapporteur Tom Andrews has a stark warning.
WARD: Give us a sense of what's at stake here?
TOM ANDREWS, U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR: A disaster and it could take many forms. It could take a bloodbath and we've seen this happen in the past.
This is not an idle threat by the military. They have shown that they are capable of massacring people, large numbers of people.
But for the incredibly brave people of Myanmar, that are on the streets protesting, engaging in several disobedience, despite that threat, what is
more terrifying for them than anything is going back into the clutches of a military authoritarian regime.
WARD (voice-over): Myo Htet says he is aware of the risks.
WARD: Are you scared?
HTET: No, not. We will fight until the end, we will fight until we get back our rights, Until we get back our democracy. We will fight. We will
win this fight for sure.
WARD (voice-over): Clarissa Ward, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Still ahead, the U.N. special envoy to Myanmar is calling on the country's military to respect protesters' right to peaceful assembly.
Will they listen?
We will speak to the U.N. envoy up next.
Plus, just 10 countries have administered three-quarters of the world's coronavirus vaccine. CNN speaks with the president of Rwanda. Why he feels
his nation is near the back of the queue when it comes to vaccines. That coming up.
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ANDERSON: Returning now to the power struggle playing out on the streets of Myanmar and fears that protests could soon be met with a violent
military crackdown. CNN is reporting the city of Yangon is seeing the biggest anti-coup protest since the country's military seized power more
than two weeks ago.
But many wonder how long the civil disobedience will be tolerated. Here's how one journalist described the situation on the ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's been a lot of nighttime arrests but a big part of the playbook in terms of inciting a sense of terror among the
populace and among people who are already working hard during the day, whether that is in a day job at the protest, one of their days, and then
are also denied the ability to sleep at night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The U.N. secretary-general's special envoy on Myanmar is urging the country's military to refrain from any violence against the protesters,
warning, quote, "The world is watching closely." Christine Schraner Burgener joins me now from Switzerland.
It's good to have you with us. As I understand it, you have spoken to a senior Myanmar military official. You've told him the world is watching
them closely and that any heavy-handed action with demonstrators is likely to have, quote, "severe consequences."
What did you mean by that, "severe consequences?"
CHRISTINE SCHRANER BURGENER, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY TO MYANMAR: I told him that already certain countries implemented sanctions and I'm sure other
countries will follow this.
And if they have many countries with sanctions, it will also lead to isolation of the country. And we don't know what else of measures other
countries will take. It's up to the member states. But clearly I communicated to him that the international community in the majority are
opposed to the coup.
ANDERSON: What response did you get?
BURGENER: Well, I try to go as quickly as possible now to Myanmar and that's the reason I tried to keep this channel open to the army and for
frank and open dialogue. So in all detail, I would not say what he said. But clearly they are, what I can say is, that they are determined to follow
a certain road map.
ANDERSON: By which you mean what?
BURGENER: Well, they have now a new government. They created a council and they have a clear road map that they want to re-establish a union election
committee, which already happened.
They want to continue with the peace process, they told me. So they wanted to assure me that everything goes, what the last government already
started, they want to continue to have the steps for democratization.
But clearly they want to, at the end of this road map, they want to have new election. But you can imagine that they don't want to see the NLD
winning again. So we can imagine what they will do in the -- in this time until they have new elections. And this is worrisome because we --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: This is the concern --
[10:25:00]
BURGENER: The concerns are that they will continue to arrest people and to find out that electoral fraud happened. They will continue to interrogate
people and especially also to Aung San Suu Kyi.
In my view, it's clear what the aim is of all of this. And I -- my role is now to talk with all sides, to go as quickly as possible to Myanmar, and
that we can reverse the current situation as quickly as possible.
ANDERSON: Have you spoken to the NLD?
BURGENER: Sure. I speak to everybody. This is my role as a mediator of a special envoy from the secretary-general.
ANDERSON: And what have they told you?
BURGENER: Well, we talked about appropriate conditions for my visit. And I'm also -- today, I will be in contact with everybody. And we will see how
we -- how I can change my strategy that we can keep a dialogue. Because only if we can talk with all sides, then we have a chance to change the
situation. But it must be very quickly done.
ANDERSON: The U.N. special rapporteur, Tom Andrews, said he is, quote, "terrified" that violence will break out between the troops and the
demonstrators.
Do you believe that there is a possibility this could escalate into a very, very violent situation?
You've spoken to the military. You say their aim seems to be quite clear. They have a road map that clearly doesn't include continue continuing to
allow for protests.
How concerned are you?
BURGENER: Well, I always, in my last three years, warned member states that a coup can happen. So also a crackdown. I would never exclude this.
But for the moment, the Tatmadaw (ph) told me they have no interest on violence breaking out.
And I think one important fact is that the ethnic (ph) armed organizations, they are around 21 of them, they are completely against the situation. And
they already said, if violence will break out, then they will also act.
So they have certain threat also from the ethnic armed organizations and they will think very clearly about their next actions before they do it.
ANDERSON: We heard from a journalist on the ground earlier, speaking with my colleague, Christiane Amanpour. I just want to play for our viewers what
she had to say about where this is all heading.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think what will likely happen is quite a protracted struggle. It's always difficult to predict the future. And while we're
seeing a repeat of a lot of the junta's general playbook in terms of suppressing popular uprisings, suggests a sort of silence that we saw in
1988 and 2007.
This is actually not as violent as they have been in the past. And the protests have gone on longer than they normally are allowed to before it
turns sort of towards indiscriminate shooting in the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: What sort of tactics do you believe that the military could or is likely to use at this point?
BURGENER: I assume that they had a clear tactic, which is probably now difficult to implement, because I think they are -- they were surprised how
high and strong the resistance is from all the people, all over the country.
So in my view, I think they have to change the textbook because, if not, it will come to violence. And this is -- that would be terrible. So I think
they have to think about now very quickly what are the next steps.
And that's my -- also my task, to convince them to be reasonable and now to really act and hand over the power back to the real government.
ANDERSON: But let's accept that they have been using -- and this being the military -- has been using violence and repression against these
protesters.
You're concerned, are you, that that goes on and gets worse at this point?
[10:30:00]
ANDERSON: I just want to be quite clear about, you know, just how bad you believe things could get and how.
BURGENER: Well, if violence break out, then it will be really terrible if we see how many people are on the street and we know also how the army
acted in the past. So honestly, I don't like to think about this situation.
And that's the reason I'm very impatient now to wait here and to go to Myanmar. So I will have several phone calls today to clarify what are the
next steps from my side, that I can talk as quickly as possible to all parties in Myanmar.
ANDERSON: I'm speaking with the U.N. envoy for Myanmar. I'm going to take a very short break. We'll continue this conversation after this. Stand by.
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson.
In the last few hours, Myanmar seeing the largest demonstrations since the military coup there. I want to get back to my conversation with the U.N.
secretary-general's special envoy on Myanmar, Christine Schraner Burgener, who joins us from Switzerland.
Let's be quite clear. For those who may just be joining us, you have spoken to a senior Myanmar military official. You have told him that the world is
watching the military closely and that any heavy-handed action with demonstrators is likely to have, quote, "severe consequences."
You hope, as I understand it, that that will not need to be the case and you are trying to get into Myanmar on the ground. I just want to discuss
with you where you see international support for these demonstrators and where you have concerns because, let's be quite frank.
The U.N. does not speak with one voice at this point when it comes to Myanmar. And let's remind ourselves, China and Russia shielding Myanmar
from any significant action in 2017 after the military crackdown in Myanmar's Rakhine state.
Is that or are you facing a similar situation now with the permanent Security Council members?
BURGENER: Well, the U.N. itself is clearly united.
[10:35:00]
BURGENER: And the secretary-general made it very clear that he protested very strongly against this coup. But the member states, yes, I think there
are some who are very clear to condemn the situation.
But probably some countries in the region, we know that the ASEAN has the attitude of or principle of noninterference.
So clearly we will have -- it will be very important that the member state of -- show unity and collectively acting to ensure that the protection of
human rights and fundamental freedom of the people in Myanmar are guaranteed. So the unity is very important.
ANDERSON: Do you believe, as special envoy to Myanmar, sent at the behest, when you get there, of the secretary-general, do you believe that you have
the backing of China and Russia at this point?
BURGENER: I think so and I hope so because they also agreed to the statement from the Security Council, which I briefed on the 2nd of
February. And clearly I think both states, they don't like the situation actually.
And they always gave me a lot of support in my almost three years. So I suppose -- assume that they give me support for a visit there and that I
come talk to everybody.
ANDERSON: What will be the fate of Aung San Suu Kyi, to your mind?
BURGENER: I think that depends really now from the coming few days and weeks. She has to be interrogated once again. She has now a second charge
that she also violated, I heard, the national disaster law. So she has to defend herself. But we -- we can stop all this as quickly as possible.
ANDERSON: Finally, you have been speaking to all sides. You have said that you want to get in.
Is there any sense at this point of when you will get onto the ground?
BURGENER: That depends now. I will have several discussions still today. We will see if I -- another message to the Tatmadaw. I give almost every
day a message to them and I hope that they will agree that I can travel as quickly as possible.
ANDERSON: With that, we'll leave it there. We hope you will stay in touch as and when you get on the ground. Thank you very much for joining us.
BURGENER: Thank you.
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ANDERSON: Breaking news now out of the U.K. Buckingham Palace says Prince Phillip is in hospital after feeling unwell on Tuesday night. Officials
said it's just a precautionary measure and not COVID related. Our royal correspondent Max Foster joining us from England with the very latest --
Max.
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: They're trying to give -- emphasize that this wasn't an emergency admission. He walked into the hospital last
night. It's been described as a period of observation and rest.
We don't know what his condition is, only that he was feeling unwell for a number of days. He's 99 years old. 100 in the summer. So on the advice of
the royal household doctor, he has gone into hospital.
Lots of questions, of course, about whether or not it's COVID related. As you say, a source telling us it wasn't. Also the queen remaining in
Windsor, not coming to London, again signifying that they're not overly concerned about the situation.
The queen and Prince Philip have been in a bubble at Windsor Castle for months now during the pandemic. They are, of course, in a vulnerable group.
This is the first time I believe he's left Windsor Castle for several months.
But a precautionary measure, Becky. We will keep across it. But the palace staff, palace sources very much trying to temper concerns right now.
ANDERSON: Max Foster is in England on the story. Thank you, Max.
We'll take a short break. Back after this.
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ANDERSON: Russian scientists say they figured out what created this massive crater in the Siberian tundra. The 30-meter hole appeared last year
but no one was really sure why. To make the mystery deeper, 16 similar craters have popped up in the same region since 2013. The scientists later
flew a drone into the crater to investigate and recently published the research.
Their conclusion?
Methane gas had built up underneath what is this frigid ground and blew up as it made its way to the surface.
Another question was, why is it happening now?
Scientists believe climate change has weakened the surface, making it easier for that methane to escape.
Remarkable.
French star Kylian Mbappe steals the show in the Champions League. He scored a hat trick for Paris Saint-Germain against Barcelona. And check out
this still image from the game. It has gone viral. Mbappe literally tearing away from the competition. Barcelona left looking pretty helpless, to be
honest.
(WORLD SPORTS)
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