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Connect the World
China's Coronavirus Conspiracy: Origin Was U.S. Lab; Winter Storms and Unreliable Supply Delay Vaccine Distribution and Inoculations; Biden Phones Netanyahu as President for the First Time; Denmark Finds U.K. COVID- 19 Variant in 45 Percent of Cases; Interview with Danish Foreign Minister Jeppe Kofod on the Coronavirus Pandemic. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired February 18, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know about the U.S. Army's Fort Detrick's labs?
Do you know that they research on dangerous viruses for decades?
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, China's well-oiled propaganda machine going up against America. But with both sides slinging
mud at each other, we are none the wiser as to where the pandemic all really started.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): And no power, no water, no heat and no one accepting responsibility. We're in Texas around what is this incredible
arctic air blast.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Then we'll tell you who picked up the phone to Israel's prime minister that got him all smiles.
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ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson. Thank you for spending your time in what is this expanded edition of CONNECT THE WORLD.
We're making what feels like significant progress against the COVID-19 pandemic. Fewer people are dying and fewer people are getting infected.
Just look. That is good news. And vaccinations are going up faster and further than before. But while science and practicalities that we've all
come to know and cherish roll onwards, powerful countries are playing very large and very potent political games.
There's, at times, malice laced with ignorance and a dose of xenophobia. A lot of that xenophobia was directed toward people of Chinese origin. The
virus was first detected in China. Blame initially fell on the wet market in Wuhan and there were other theories like the virus leaking from a
Chinese lab.
Not so fast, says China. As the World Health Organization went to Wuhan for clues and essentially ruled out the lab theory, China rolled out some
theories of its own, in one case, laying the blame squarely at the feet of the United States.
CNN's David Culver has been reporting on the pandemic from China since the very start. He joins us tonight from Shanghai.
David, clearly every country has a story it wants told and that it wants us to believe, bar none.
How is China, at this point, positioning itself?
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, what we're seeing come out here now is a renewal of this counternarrative to the Trump
administration's lab origin theory, the one where they allege the Wuhan Institute of Virology had a leak in their lab and that's how it spread.
China has pushed back on that but around the same time last year they surfaced with their own narrative of this lab theory, in a lab in the U.S.
at a U.S. Army medical research lab in particular. And that's what's been pushed over and over.
More recently, in fact, just the past month or so, they have renewed their efforts to go forward with this propaganda. And as we discovered in going
through some of the data analysis, it coincided with the WHO field mission trip to find the origin of COVID-19. As But that's playing out and we're
still awaiting the report from the WHO, China moving forward with their own narrative.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know about the U.S. Army's Fort Detrick's labs?
Do you know that they research on dangerous viruses for decades?
CULVER (voice-over): Chinese officials carrying out a propaganda- fueled war of words and tweets. The apparent intention, to muddy the waters in the
search for the origin of COVID-19 and to potentially deflect responsibility for the virus' global spread.
CNN combing through months of digital data analysis that shows a combined push of conspiracy theories, carried out by official Chinese government
accounts, state media and a broader group of Chinese online influencer.
The propaganda push coinciding with the highly politicized World Health Organization's source tracing mission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you find anything inside?
CULVER: Last month, as the WHO's international team of experts traveled to Wuhan, CNN found that China's sophisticated propaganda machine flooded both
social and state media with several origin theories, include one to counter the Trump administration's own unsupported allegation that the virus leaked
from the Wuhan Institute of Virology Lab, a theory the visiting WHO scientist essentially ruled out before leaving China last week.
PETER BEN EMBAREK, HEAD OF THE WHO MISSION TO CHINA: The laboratory incident hypothesis is extremely unlikely.
[10:05:00]
CULVER (voice-over): But in recent weeks, Chinese officials have doubled down on their own lab origin theory, renewing a conspiracy that the virus
began in the U.S., specifically here at the U.S. Army's Fort Detrick Medical Research Lab in Maryland.
Inspectors for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention briefly halted work here in 2019 to investigate safety concerns.
There is no evidence the virus originated in the U.S., but China's state media saw an opportunity. Beginning in March of last year, as the virus
started sweeping across the world, they published stories surrounding the Fort Detrick lab and a possible leak. A foreign ministry spokesperson went
a step further, tweeting last March that it might be the U.S. Army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan.
Soon after, China's government-controlled broadcaster began airing mini documentaries on the Fort Detrick conspiracy theory. For ten months,
China's foreign ministry has relentlessly pushed the conspiracy. And just as the WHO field team arrived in Wuhan in January to investigate the
origin, Chinese officials once again voiced their version of a possible lab leak.
I'd like to stress that if the United States truly respects facts, it should open the biological lab at Fort Detrick, give more transparency to
issues like its 200-plus overseas bio labs and invite WHO experts to conduct origin tracing in the United States, the spokesperson said.
That clip of the foreign ministry spokesperson went viral online, circulating on both western and Chinese social media. CNN reviewed data
analysis of Internet searches in China. It shows that after the initial push of the conspiracy theory in March 2020, search interests in Fort
Detrick remained relatively flat for nearly a year, only to surge once again in January, just as the WHO source tracing field mission got underway
in Wuhan. During that time, more than 230,000 posts using the Fort Detrick hashtag were viewed more than 1.48 billion times on social media platform
Weibo. And the foreign ministry hashtag attracted more than 210,000 posts with 790 million views.
China has also floated the theory that the virus originally got into Wuhan through imported frozen foods, as CNN uncovered late last year and that
theory has led to hazmat-like handling of international cargo and its encouraged Chinese state media to label the virus as an imported threat,
suggesting it even started that way.
The range of origin theories, an attempt to seemingly deflect blame and sow doubt in ever uncovering this devastating and deadly pandemic's true
source.
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CULVER: Becky, we see this massive state media and social media propaganda push.
You may wonder, what impact does it really have?
Are the folks here buying it?
According to one U.K.-based organization, they conducted a survey around the world, asking residents of different countries where they believe the
virus originated. Those in China, more than 30 percent, said that they believe it originated in the U.S.
Now equally within that same study, more than 50 percent said it's possible it originated in China. All this to say, it's enough to sow confusion, to
raise questions and that seems to be the intention of this propaganda campaign.
ANDERSON: David Culver is in Shanghai for you, discussing what we know perhaps at this point or don't know about how this all started. How it
finishes will depend on certainly how quickly we can get vaccines out to everyone around the world. Just part of the tool kit but an important part
of the tool kit.
And there are deep, deep geopolitical games at play from all sides. This isn't just a logistical challenge. China, Russia playing a massive role in
COVID vaccine rollouts in, for example, Latin America.
Colombia finally beginning vaccinating its citizens. The first 46-year-old nurse who, also playing a large role across parts of Africa. But an
American company becoming crucial to South Africa's vaccination program. That country pivoting to a vaccine developed by Johnson & Johnson.
The global vaccination effort plagued by supply issues, unequal access and concerns that drugs won't work against new variants. This is, of course,
sputtering on. We can connect you to both sides of this, this hour.
Journalist Stefano Pozzebon is in Bogota, Colombia, outside a hospital where vaccinations are about to begin. First to South Africa and to David
McKenzie, who is standing by for you in Johannesburg.
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ANDERSON: David, as South Africa plans to give away a million AstraZeneca doses, it is now rolling out a faster and wider program with another
vaccine. Just fill us in.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Becky. They had to really turn their strategy on its head and go with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine,
which hasn't yet been approved anywhere in the world.
But they're using this large implementation trial to try and get vaccines to the health workers. who are at the front lines of this. Scientists
believe that health care workers, doctors, nurses are three or four times more likely to catch COVID-19 during the first wave.
And then you had that second wave in South Africa that was even more dramatic because of this variant discovered here. We were inside the
hospital, where they were giving those very first vaccines. Of course, quite something to see the relief on the faces of those nurses and doctors,
who have been in those COVID wards for a long time.
I spoke to one nurse, who really says this makes her feel a lot happier about the work she does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: You've been in the COVID wards for so many months.
What does it mean to you to now get a vaccine?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I am so. I'm ready to get the vaccine because of every day, when you got home, come to work, we are like, I wonder what's
going to happen. We are afraid for our family. So it is now working.
MCKENZIE: Has it just been very emotionally challenging to deal with this period?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary. It's scary. It's very challenging and it's emotional. (INAUDIBLE), seeing every day those poor patients dying in
front of your eyes.
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MCKENZIE: I think it's important to look ahead because, with this pandemic, it's always about being one step ahead of this pandemic. And
though they will get this vaccine to tens of thousands, even 100,000 or more health care workers, that's just scratching the surface of the overall
population in South Africa.
As you mentioned, they have or will plan on giving that 1 million doses of AstraZeneca to the African Union. There will be lots of questions asked,
whether giving that vaccine will be effective because it is seen to be ineffective against mild and moderate disease when caused by the variant
discovered in South Africa.
I spoke to one leading scientist today, who said they believe this has variant spread through large parts of at least Southern Africa but they do
say there's a missing part of the studies that have been done at this point.
And they believe that, even with that less efficacious impact on the strain, that that vaccine could be important in preventing severe
infections and death. And really, that is what public health officials say is the holy grail here, not necessarily stopping COVID-19 in its tracks but
stopping it from overwhelming health care centers and keeping the most vulnerable more safe -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. You make a very good point. David, thank you for that.
Stefano, you say the vaccines are finally rolling out where you are. But to the point I was making earlier, a wider geopolitical question mark around
all of this. Just explain, if you will.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly, Becky. First of all, we are outside of a hospital, where the vaccination process will begin in less
than an hour. So we've witnessed the same scenes of relief that David has witnessed in South Africa.
Of course, it's a moment of high hope and high relief, especially for the health care workers, who are being given the priority at this moment within
the day, 274 health care workers who will be vaccinated in the hospital just behind my back.
But the crucial question here is, which vaccines is Colombia getting?
Just take the case of Colombia. You can see here, in this graph, Colombia has placed more orders towards big Western laboratories, Pfizer's and
AstraZeneca. They received the first doses of the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine just this past Monday, 50,000 doses arriving from Belgium.
But this weekend, the government has expected almost four times that number, about 200,000 doses, from the Chinese Sinovac vaccine laboratory.
Even though China has -- even though Colombia has placed fewer orders toward China, China is delivering more vaccines than the Western
laboratories.
And this has big geopolitical implications, if you will, Becky. It's not just a question of Colombia.
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POZZEBON: The wider Latin American region is seeing that while Western companies are prioritizing the deliveries toward the U.S. and Europe and
their deliveries are marred by supply shortages, Russia and China are delivering and delivering fast.
Argentina received hundreds of thousands of doses of the Russian vaccine at the beginning of January. And only this week they received the first
AstraZeneca doses.
So the big question in the future is how this vaccine diplomacy going to impact bilateral relationships between Latin America and the rest of the
world, with traditional partners, Europe and the United States, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. Stefano, David, thank you so much. Really important reporting. Insightful analysis. Thank you.
Even with all the good vaccines, all the good that vaccines are doing, we've got to remember that the rules to stay apart still matter.
A new study by Imperial College London shows that England's lockdown measures are working and bringing the number of COVID-19 cases down
significantly. Infections have fallen by two-thirds since the previous report last month, which, remember, England entering its third national
lockdown of the pandemic on January the 6th.
Many people suggesting that it's the lockdown rather than what has been this tremendously successful vaccine rollout in the U.K. that is perhaps
behind those numbers. Put the two together and, of course, you see that significant decline.
We are learning new details about the U.K.'s contract with vaccine supplier AstraZeneca. It turns out the deal for 100 million doses only commits the
company to making its, quote, "best reasonable efforts" to meet that target.
And it's the same language used in AstraZeneca's contract with the European Union, which critics blamed for a rocky vaccine rollout. Details of the
U.K.'s contract can be read in a redacted version published online months ago, long before the country became embroiled in a bitter dispute over
vaccine supply with the E.U.
We will discuss the AstraZeneca issue, the E.U.'s handling and vaccine passports with a leader in that field, the Danish foreign minister. He
joins me live a little later on this show.
First up, just how much is an election win worth?
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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: I ask you to stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters in the LGBTQ community.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But members of his new political orchestra are sounding much more discordant notes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): A country in which two fathers and two mothers is recognized as a family is not normal.
ANDERSON (voice-over): And we'll take you live to Israel, where the prime minister is making some hardcore political calculations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Then, cold, desperate and on their own. The power system collapses in Texas, a state known for its energy sources. This is
during the harshest winter in decades and relief is not in sight.
And rocket scientists holding their breath after hurtling through space for nearly six months.
Will the rover Perseverance make it safely to the surface of Mars?
We'll know soon enough. NASA are on the show a little later.
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. You know what they say, a watched pot never boils. But apparently a watched phone does ring -- eventually. And it rings up a
smile when it does, too. Check out the look on the Israeli prime minister's face, a beaming smile as he got his first call from the new American
president since Joe Biden stepped into office.
It lasted about an hour, we are told, but it took almost a month to come. Let's start off with Sam Kiley, live from Jerusalem this hour.
I never keep you waiting that long. You know that, don't you?
Look, a pretty long call.
Was there any substance to it?
KILEY: It was really in the language that followed, both from the -- both parties. You had the Israelis saying it was warm. The Americans saying it
was warm. Both sides saying they discussed peace treaties in the wider region or normalization discussions in the wider region.
They discussed Iran. They discussed Israel and Palestine but no substance coming out, the only real substance being a reflection from the United
States, one shared internationally, of course, that the Israelis have done a good job on their mass vaccination campaign.
But importantly, I think, from the American perspective, first of all, it was Israel that got the first call in the Middle East and, secondly, they
are trying to reset the relationship from the sort of bromance that existed between Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu for the previous four years.
And also it has been very fractious, that relationship between Biden/the Obama administration in the past with Benjamin Netanyahu. He's going to
have to work pretty hard to warm it up, Becky.
ANDERSON: Benjamin Netanyahu enjoying vocal support, verging on outright campaigning in his favor by Donald Trump in the last election.
Is he in more jeopardy this time around?
KILEY: We're certainly not seeing the same posters we've seen in previous elections, at least two of them in the past under Trump, possibly actually
three, I think, in which there were joint posters, showing Benjamin Netanyahu alongside Donald Trump, even his Twitter handle had those
selfsame pictures.
Of course, he's no longer -- Donald Trump is no longer the U.S. president. And this is also a unique campaign, since it's being conducted under the
strictures of the COVID pandemic.
But that said, yes, Benjamin Netanyahu is the -- and the election is again hanging in the balance. It all boils down for both the Left and the Right
to garner as much of a tiny fraction of votes from very extreme parties, particularly on the Right, in order to try and get over the line to that
61-seat threshold that they need.
And this is creating some pretty peculiar bedfellows.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KILEY (voice-over): These are scenes that Benjamin Netanyahu's newest political allies never want to see again; to win enough right-wing votes in
next month's elections, the Israeli prime minister's done a deal that's horrified his critics and made cynics of his supporters.
KILEY: In the past Benjamin Netanyahu has shown that he's very much in tune with the times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: I ask you to stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters in the LGBTQ community. We will not let hate drown out acceptance, dignity,
respect, acceptance. These are the values that will triumph.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: But members of his new political orchestra are sounding much more discordant notes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): A country in which two fathers and two mothers is recognized as a family is not normal.
KILEY (voice-over): Ali Moez's Noem Party campaigns mostly on a platform of homophobia. It's part of an electoral pact with a religion Zionist Party
and Jewish Power. That's an extremist movement accused of racism against Arabs by Jewish groups in the United States.
Netanyahu's added them to his coalition ticket, hoping they'll get enough votes to secure a minimum threshold of 3.5 percent of votes and four
Knesset seats.
[10:25:00]
KILEY (voice-over): Meaning no right-wing ballot is wasted in keenly contested elections for the 120 seats. Israel's divided Left is predictably
outraged.
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NITZAN HOROWITZ, MERETZ PARTY: This party is homophobic, is racist, advocates Jewish supremacy, the protection of Arabs. This is medieval
politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY (voice-over): The extreme right political grouping refused to talk to CNN but the spokesman for Netanyahu's Likud Party, which used to shun
right-wing extremists, spelled out the political imperative now at work.
ELI HAZAN, LIKUD PARTY SPOKESPERSON: I need to be prepared to win in any condition. I don't like this party. We share nothing with them except the
will to win the election against the left wing.
KILEY (voice-over): Even this Likud member, an LGBTQ activist, is disturbed but he may put politics above principle.
KILEY: Has he lost your vote as a consequence of this?
ERAN GIOBUS, LIKUD MEMBER: Well, you know, I think, like a lot of Israelis, after three times of voting, it's very unclear until the minute
you get there.
KILEY (voice-over): Netanyahu has recently pleaded not guilty in his trial on corruption charges. And his coalition election success hangs in the
balance. But if he wins, the price of political survival will inevitably be a reckoning with Israel's extreme Right.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: A very revealing piece, Sam. Mr. Netanyahu not the only one seeking what may be unusual alliances. Many parties reaching out for the
Arab vote, as it's known, which can be a pretty hefty 25 percent, if my memory of Israel's elections serves me right.
Correct?
KILEY: Yes, that's right; 20 percent, 25 percent of the population translating into 10 to 15 votes -- or rather seats in the Knesset -- when
they were en bloc, often as the Joint List.
Now both the Israeli Left and indeed Benjamin Netanyahu have been reaching out, trying to garner support in the Arab community that would
traditionally vote on the Left, particularly parties like Meretz. We saw their leader in that package just then.
He was also, like Benjamin Netanyahu, visiting the city of Nazareth, the Christian Arab Israeli city of note.
And then really on the Left but also a little on the Right, trying to peel away a few of those Arab votes to try to get them into those blocs. Meretz,
the latest opinion poll showing they might only end up with about four seats. If they can bump that up by one or two, they will be looking in a
much stronger position politically.
And elections here, Becky, can be won and lost over about 20,000 votes. So it's very, very active, even though you have this enormous smorgasbord of
parties right across the table, Becky.
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley is in Jerusalem for you, folks.
Sam, thank you.
It doesn't matter when the call comes for world leaders, a chance to talk to the American president is still a pretty big deal. Here's another look
at the big grin on the Israeli prime minister's face when Joe Biden was on the other end of the line. It says it all.
And he's not alone. Boris Johnson pretty happy about it, too, when the phone rang back at the end of January.
Right now, there are more displaced people on the planet than ever before. In the next hour, we'll speak to the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees
about how COVID has made this catastrophic situation even worse and what can be done about it.
Plus, Denmark is kicking around the idea of coronavirus passports. They are controversial.
But could they be a way to get life back to normal?
I'll be asking the Danish foreign minister up next.
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ANDERSON: Every day here on CONNECT THE WORLD we're bringing you the human toll of this pandemic as governments across the world scramble to find a
way out of it. And Denmark, for one, thought it was getting there, hoping for what it calls a summer of joy. Now it's looking at some tough new COVID
news.
Danish health officials say the more contagious U.K. variant of the virus is responsible for 45 percent of cases across the country and it's
spreading. Yet hope isn't fading in the country, mostly because the kingdom of about 6 million is showing it's good at getting its people vaccinated.
It wants to be able to offer shots in every arm by June.
But pressure growing for life to get back to normal now. And that's got the government thinking about introducing a so-called coronavirus passport by
the end of the month. It is ambitious and it is controversial. So here's what some Danes told our Nina dos Santos about it. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how it would work because we have to see the passport all the time. It should not be the restaurant's job to check
if they have the corona passport. I don't think that all the shops and restaurants should -- can handle to check corona passport.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR (voice-over): And what about health discrimination?
Chelina Hansen has launched a petition with parliament to block the passport's rollout. Here's why.
CHELINA HANSEN, CITIZEN PROPOSAL AGAINST COVID-19 PASSPORT: I think it will split the population in sort of a big A and B class. It will make it
hard for people who don't want the vaccine to navigate in the society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Want to get to all of that with the Danish foreign minister, Jeppe Kofod.
Thank you, sir, for joining us. I trust you and your family are well.
JEPPE KOFOD, DANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: You're welcome. Yes, we are fine, thank you. Thank you, Becky.
ANDERSON: Good, good. Tell me about this coronavirus passport.
How would it work?
KOFOD: Well, the idea is to develop a passport where you register a vaccination. And also the corona test that you have undertaken. And then
you can use it as documentation for traveling. That's the first idea we have for business traveling in particular.
But also the latest states, it's part of an integrated strategy to reopen gradually and safely our society again, restaurant, cafes, cultural events
and so on. So testing and corona passport, with information about vaccination and test results, is part of the solution on how we can start
getting back to more normal life again.
ANDERSON: So -- and everybody understands why business leaders and indeed the governments are intent on trying to get, you know, things up and
running again. Coronavirus is extremely costly to the economists.
And this has been a dilemma that governments and businesses have faced throughout this past year. There are still question marks over how this
system would work, though, and indeed whether other countries would accept a document like this.
So how far along in this process is Denmark?
KOFOD: First of all, we probably now have the possibility to, when you have a negative test, you can have a document -- a PDF document that you
can show as documentation but also the vaccines here where we are, development, the thing seems so when you have your vaccination, you can
have a PDF file and you can show in language.
[10:35:00]
KOFOD: In three languages, French, English and Danish, that you have your vaccination. You have your vaccination. So that sense, we will use that, in
particular, to -- business travelers and other travelers that have to document when they arrive to this nation that they have a vaccination. And
also with the negative COVID test that we know that more and more places and also airlines are demanding as documentation before boarding.
So that sense, it will make it easier to cross borders and be more safe. That is the idea, the initial phase. And later we will also, as I said, use
it for reopening gradually our society. I mean, our strategy is built on massive testing and also of course rolling out vaccination.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about the rollout because less than 7 percent of the population has gotten their first dose, as I understand it, according to
our world data. So I do wonder who would actually benefit from these passports.
You suggest they will also hold information about testing as well as vaccines. But let's stick to vaccines. I want you to be blunt here. The
E.U. rollout has been described by many as an unmitigated disaster.
How would you describe the E.U.'s handling of the vaccine rollout, sir?
KOFOD: Well, I think we all are desperate to get the vaccine now. We are ready. In the case of Denmark, we can vaccine 100,000 people a day if we
have the vaccines arriving to the country.
So, yes, I think there's a lot to learn from the process that also the European Union has to learn, the commission that has been responsible for
negotiating contracts on behalf of member states and the whole setup around pandemic, I think, is something we have to learn from.
So we want to ensure in the future to have more resilience, better coordination and be more proactive in these kind of situations. So no doubt
it has not been a full success as integrated now.
ANDERSON: Yes, you are blaming the commission and it was the president of the commission who has got herself in such hot water about the AstraZeneca
vaccine as well.
I mean, you are blaming the commission, correct?
KOFOD: Well, I am sure that there can be lessons learned from this. We still have to remember that, I think, one-fourth of the global vaccines
that are going to be produced has already been purchased by European Union.
So it's the delay on the arrival of the vaccines. It's not the amount of vaccines that is the problem.
But you're right. Also because of the new variants, we are all desperate to get our population vaccinated sooner than later. We know how we can
gradually or partly close down our society to control the pandemic.
But we want to get back to normal life and it has big costs, socially, economically, if we continue these type of lockdowns that we're witnessing
right now.
ANDERSON: Well, the E.U. announced yesterday that it will purchase another 300 million doses of Moderna's vaccine. So far, the bloc's rollout has been
slowed down because of supply and production issues.
Highly contagious variants are already spreading across the continent, as you rightly point out, and you are clearly worried that these new strains,
you know, can ultimately outpace and undermine the E.U.'s rollout, correct?
KOFOD: Well, at least we have the B117 variant or what some call the British variant in Denmark and we have measured very accurately by
sequencing positive COVID tests in Denmark and we're mapping the different variants. If you see B117, it's been spreading, as we also predicated, very
fast in the population, although the general spread of the virus has come down a lot.
But you see the composition of the newly cases. It's -- very soon it will be more than 50 percent of the new variant, the British variant, before
Christmas it was only a few percentage. So in that sense, we have to prepare for new variants.
This variant, we can, I think the vaccine still works on it. The evidence shows that. But these new variants are coming up, the South African one,
the ones coming from South America.
Then it could also jeopardize the effectiveness of the vaccine and, therefore, we need to prepare and be much better and also changing vaccines
in the future so we can mitigate these variants coming up.
ANDERSON: So your health minister has predicted this new variant could represent 80 percent of infections by early March. You've been in lockdown
for nearly two months.
[10:40:00]
ANDERSON: Does having this or these contagious variants on the loose, quite frankly, make it impossible to ease restrictions in Denmark anytime
soon?
KOFOD: Well, it's -- we're fighting against, of course, variants. But when we roll out vaccination and also massive testing, then we have a
possibility to gradually and safely open up society again. We have come down a lot in number of new cases in Denmark since Christmas. It's been
really a success.
So, when we open up again, it should be -- you know, for example, we want to test all schoolchildren twice a week to be sure that, if there are
cases, we are immediately isolating the people and we are tracking the new contacts and so on and, thereby, controlling pandemic.
Because that is the tools we have to have in our hands to get people and society more back to normal life. So that's part of it. And vaccines will,
of course, help us. We will --
(CROSSTALK)
KOFOD: -- we will have vaccinated the adult population in Denmark and this should also have a major effect on the spread of the virus.
ANDERSON: Jeppe Kofod, we started by talking about this initiative, this coronavirus passport. And I ran some of the report that my colleague, Nina
dos Santos, filed. And in that, we heard concern voiced from the public in Denmark, that this coronavirus passport could make for a two-tiered
society.
Finally, do you share that concern, sir?
KOFOD: Well, we need to discuss it and go about it in a next level way, because, you're right. There could be a risk that you have an A and a B
society. The ones who are vaccinated, they have access to restaurants and so on. The ones who are not, they don't have it and that could create
tensions.
On the other hand, I would like to say that the ones who have been isolating themselves, right from the start of this pandemic, is the more
vulnerable people, the elderly people, the ones with chronic diseases. And they also want to be getting the vaccines first.
We have vaccinated, I think, more than 85 percent of the elderly people and ill at home in Denmark right now. And I think they deserve to be able to
break out of the isolation and get back to more normal life again because it has high also social cost for them that they are so isolated.
So there are dilemmas in this. And also we can use tests as a supplement to vaccinations. So massive testing and easy access to quick tests is also
part of the solution to overcome a possible divide.
ANDERSON: Sir, it's a pleasure having you on. I think it's the first time that we've spoken to you on this show. Don't be a stranger. Come back.
The Danish foreign minister, Jeppe Kofod, in the House --
(CROSSTALK)
KOFOD: -- Becky, thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.
ANDERSON: Well, just ahead, banned from Facebook, the social media networking giant yanks news off its site in Australia. And critical pages
for police, fire, rescue and the COVID pandemic are wiped clean, too.
What gives?
Details ahead.
And burning belongings just to stay warm. Pictures you do not normally see in the United States ahead. Millions in the state of Texas face another
freezing day, many of them without heat or water.
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[10:45:00]
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ANDERSON: This hour, a catastrophic humanitarian crisis unfolding in real time in Texas. More than 500,000 people are waking up this morning without
power again during what is the coldest weather in decades. And nearly 12 million are facing water disruptions.
Now the food lines are long and, in many stores, the shelves are empty. Residents will face another day of frigid, life-threatening temperatures,
some even burning their own belongings to keep warm. CNN's Camila Bernal is braving the cold for us in Dallas, in Texas.
I know things are tough. We're looking at images there, which seem truly remarkable. Just show us where you are and what's going on.
CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, we're right outside of downtown Dallas. And a lot of the neighborhoods look just like this one. There has
been some progress in terms of bringing the power back for a lot of the residents here.
But the county judge did say specifically that, in this area, there's a lot of problems when it comes to the transformers and the power lines. So the
storm damaged that. And so it all has to be fixed before all of the power can be restored to places like this, this neighborhood.
The thing is, everyone is experiencing something different. We talked to neighbors, specifically someone who lives about three minutes from where
I'm standing. He got his power back yesterday but was without power for about three days.
Another neighbor told me he's experiencing those rolling blackouts. So he was on for three hours and off for eight hours. Everyone is seeing
something different, even though ERCOT says that those blackouts will likely continue throughout the day.
The important thing here is that Texans are frustrated. And you have to remember that this is having a huge emotional toll on so many of the
residents and even on elected officials. Take a listen to what the mayor of Austin, Texas, had to say about how he is feeling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR STEVE ADLER (D-TX), AUSTIN: We started out with COVID, which is, obviously, as much challenge as anybody should take. Layer on top of that
snow and ice, 18 degrees below zero for the same time. No one here is used to that.
And then you add on top of that power outages and people don't have heat. And now we're adding on top of that water issues. It is too much to ask of
anybody. People are angry and confused and frustrated. And I am, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERNAL: And the water issue is huge as well. People are having to grab the snow and melt it in any way they can inside of their homes because that is
literally the only way to get water in many areas here in Texas.
So a difficult situation and a difficult couple of days going forward for many of those people dealing with the outages and the water problems --
Becky.
ANDERSON: Stay safe and warm, please. Thank you.
It's not just people who are suffering from this brutal cold snap in Texas. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): These are thousands of sea turtles. They've been what's called cold stunned by the drastic drop in temperature. It's left
them lethargic and unable to swim.
Volunteers, many of whom have no source of heat themselves, have been bringing the turtles to this convention center to try and save them. The
plan now, hopefully, will bring their temperatures back up. But as the director of the center explained, that is no easy task. Power there has
only just been restored.
From cold turtles to cold camels, these furry fellows swapped sand for snow in the mountains in Saudi Arabia. They are used to a much, much warmer
climate, sometimes around 40 degrees Celsius. But storms have hit the Middle East, too, bringing cold temperatures and snow for some.
They are looking slightly confused, aren't they?
Thank you for joining us.
Next up, who will blink first, Facebook or Australian lawmakers?
The social media networking giant blocking Australians from seeing or sharing news.
[10:50:00]
ANDERSON: What has sparked this big row is up next.
And for the world's most vulnerable people, the COVID pandemic has been catastrophic and the desperation is stark. In the next hour, we'll speak to
the U.N. high commissioner for refugees about what is being done to help them.
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ANDERSON: If you are scrolling through Facebook in Australia, there is something that you will not see: news. Facebook is blocking users from
sharing news from any outlets, either local or international, on its site.
The social media networking giant is furious over a proposed law in Australia that would require tech platforms like Facebook and Google to pay
news publishers for their content. But Facebook's move has also wiped clean pages for fire and rescue, weather and police, sparking outrage. More on
all of this from Shuba Krishnan of CBS (sic) in Australia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHUBA KRISHNAN, SBS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Blocked. News site after news site, article after article. Millions of Australians unable to access
important content. Prevented from seeing or even sharing the news on the popular social media platform.
JOSH FRYDENBERG, AUSTRALIAN TREASURER: Facebook was wrong. Facebook sections were unnecessary. They were heavy handed and they will damage its
reputation here in Australia.
KRISHNAN (voice-over): The government standing firm, backing itself in the fight to force the powerful tech giant to compensate news companies for
their content.
FRYDENBERG: We will legislate this code. This is critical to sustaining public interest journalism in this country and this is world leading.
KRISHNAN (voice-over): But Facebook says it was left with no choice, claiming the code fundamentally misunderstands Facebook's role in the media
landscape and that publishers stood to gain more, with news making up less than 4 percent of the content people see in their news feeds.
Despite multiple conversations with Facebook's CEO Mark Zuckerberg, the treasurer says he was blindsided but remains undeterred.
FRYDENBERG: We certainly weren't given any notice by Facebook. I think there's some differing interpretations as to how the code would work. And
we talked through some of those elements. And we're happy to help clarify.
KRISHNAN (voice-over): The digital code, three years in the making, sailed through the house yesterday and is set to be debated in the Senate next
week.
PAUL FLETCHER, AUSTRALIAN COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER: The code is not yet in the law.
So it rises an obvious question, why are they doing this now?
KRISHNAN (voice-over): Alarmingly, critical public health websites have also been caught up in the chaos, criticism coming from both sides of the
political divide.
JIM CHALMERS, AUSTRALIAN SHADOW TREASURER: This will have consequences for people who are trying to access health news during a pandemic.
GREG HUNT, AUSTRALIAN HEALTH MINISTER: You may be in it for the money but the rest of us are in it for safety, protection and responsibility.
FLETCHER: The government expects them to restore those pages as quickly as possible.
KRISHNAN (voice-over): SBS sites also blacklisted. The network, playing a pivotal role in translating safety messages, says it's disappointed and
urges Facebook to reconsider this move.
[10:55:00]
MICHELLE ROWLAND, AUSTRALIAN SHADOW COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER: SBS, for example, has invested considerable effort in ensuring that in language,
accurate information is made available in relation to COVID. It is very disappointing.
KRISHNAN: Facebook's actions are in stark contrast to that of its rival, Google. The search engine in discussions with major media companies for
their content, inking multimillion-dollar deals with 7 West Media, News Corp and reportedly 9.
FRYDENBERG: One of the major players to stay here in Australia, to keep providing the services to Australians.
KRISHNAN (voice-over): Hoping for a swift end to the stalemate. For now, though, millions of Facebook users are left in the dark.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: CNN chief media correspondent and "RELIABLE SOURCES" anchor Brian Stelter joining me now.
This is truly part of the wider struggle between perhaps what you might call conventional thinking and where the tech giants want to take society.
But there will be simply those who say it's time that the tech giants stopped having their way.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right. And media companies, including Rupert Murdoch, but many others, would like to see these tech
companies pony up and pay up and start to make up what they believe has been years of damage done by Facebook and Google.
However, Google and Facebook, they are focused on the creative part of creative destruction. They have fought against these proposals for years.
And once Australia did move forward with this regulation, and now it's being debated as we just heard, that is what caused Google to start to pay
these publishers.
And it's what caused Facebook to turn off the spigot. You were just talking about Texas and some of the infrastructure problems in Texas. Now this is
about digital infrastructure. And we are reminded about how powerful Facebook is. All around the world, connecting people or, in this case,
actually not connecting people.
ANDERSON: Brian, what happens next?
STELTER: I think what happens next is Google is going to keep striking these deals where it can on the most favorable terms it can. Facebook is
also, in some cases, paying news publishers around the world.
But they're trying to take a hard line in Australia because they are -- they say they object to the details of this legislation. And they want to
make sure it doesn't spread all around the world. Because that is the context for this argument in Australia.
It's starting there but your European Union regulators are watching this. Government officials in the United States and other parts of the world are
watching this very carefully and wondering if they should put in place the same kind of bargaining code that Australia is trying to put in place.
So Facebook is trying to cut it off before it can spread any further. But I think we're going to see versions of this pop up around the world and Big
Tech is going to be challenged to pay up.
Some of these Big Tech executives say this feels like a shakedown. It seems like news publishers are trying to take advantage of them. That fight is
going to continue and it's not going to just be about Australia.
ANDERSON: Yes, no, it's such a connected story, this one. It's perfect for CONNECT THE WORLD. It's just one of those stories that you just say, you
know -- and when you start looking at what Australia is doing, where the E.U. regulators are looking and you start to sort of see this kind of --
it's time to sort of fight back mentality, you wonder why it hasn't happened before.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Do these news publishers -- right.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Do these news publishers, what can they do?
Do technology companies have an obligation to try to help finance the news?
Or do they have no role at all?
This is a long overdue debate.
ANDERSON: Brian, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.
We will be back in a moment.
[11:00:00]
END
