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China Has Vehemently Denied Claims Of Uyghur Genocide; Reports: China "Bears Responsibility" For Uyghur Genocide; Myanmar Media Stripped Of Licenses As Protests Continue; Prince Charles Ducks Questions On Harry & Meghan Interview; Darren Lewis: Lack Of Black Or Brown Decision-Makers In UK Media Is An Industry Wide Problem; Deepak Chopra Speaks With CNN On Mindfulness. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired March 09, 2021 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi. This is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: It is midnight in Shenyang. It is 4 pm in London and 8 in the evening here in Abu Dhabi. Today we are putting a spotlight on
a group often in the shadows and overlooked.
An independent report finds that China is responsible for intent to commit genocide against its Muslim Uyghur population. Report says the government
considers its round up an internment of as many as 2 million Uyghurs since 2014 like, "Eradicating tumors of alleged extremism".
It outlines state run for sterilization, forced labor, psychological and physical torture, including rape, and targeting Uyghur leaders who often
die in jail. You can see the list goes on and on. Policies aimed not just to destroy the people, but their entire history and way of life.
China says the report is "Preposterous". Here at CNN we've talked a lot about the plight of the Uyghurs with some of that reporting coming from our
Ivan Watson. Ivan got to look at the report before it was made public and he gives us the highlights.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, for the first time a non-governmental organization has conducted an independent legal
review of allegations that Beijing is committing genocide in China's Shenyang region.
This is a Washington D.C. based think tank called "The New Lines Institute for Strategy and Policy", and its panel of more than 40 academics and legal
scholars and human rights experts. They examined evidence which includes an awful lot of government, Chinese government statements and documents and
have come to the conclusion that the policies in that region do match five definitions of genocide listed in the United Nations 1948 Genocide
Convention.
So the report alleges that these state policies, government mandated home stays where the Chinese government sent more than a million Communist Party
members to live in the homes of Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities, not giving them a choice, yes or no in that matter.
Mass internment, the U.S. State Department alleging that up to 2 million people have been rounded up and thrown into internment camps. Mass birth
prevention policy, forcible transfer of Uyghur children to state run facilities, eradication of Uyghur identity, community and domestic life,
selective targeting of intellectuals and community leaders that all of this amounts to allegations of genocide.
Now, CNN has done a lot of investigative reporting into this matter. And we've heard some very disturbing allegations from eye witnesses and
survivors. The Chinese government has routinely denied any of these accusations of any human rights abuses at all in Shenyang. And the Chinese
government angrily denounces even the suggestion of genocide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANG YI, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTER: The claim that there is genocide and Shenyang could not be more preposterous. It is just a rumor fabricated with
ulterior motives and a thorough lie. Over the past four decades and more the Uyghur population in Shenyang has more than doubled from 5.5 million to
over 12 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: The Chinese Foreign Minister is correct the population in Shenyang and in the rest of China grew over the last 40 plus years. But look at the
statistics Chinese government statistics for the birth rate over the last decade in Shenyang. There is a sharp drop from 2017 to 2019.
The Shenyang government told us it was because of enhanced family planning policies. It also happens to take place during the peak of the mass
internment policy. And during a time when eye witnesses say they were forced to undergo sterilization operations and the implantation of IUDs,
Becky.
ANDERSON: I want to bring in two people who were directly involved in this report. Yonah Diamond is an International Human Rights Lawyer and the
report's principal author and Irwin Cotler is Chair of the Raoul Wallenberg Center for Human Rights, which worked in cooperation with the NUS Lions
Institute for Strategy and Policy which of course undertook this report.
They are both joining us via Skype tonight and you both contributed to what is this landmark report? The findings are staggering. You know, I want to
start by asking you just to walk me through the evidence that led to this conclusion.
[11:05:00]
YONAH DIAMOND, PRINCIPAL AUTHOR OF REPORT: Absolutely. So as leading experts from around the world independent experts we assessed all the
available evidence which includes over 13,000 victim testimonies which are consolidated in a Shenyang victim database website.
That and we the sole focus of our report was on the first hand, victim accounts, and former detainees and corroborated by government policies,
government directives, manuals, and white papers. Those were the main sources of evidence and Chinese law.
ANDERSON: Irwin under the UN Convention, there are five defined acts of genocide. The convention is signed by 152 countries, including China, and a
finding of genocide can be made if a party violates any one of those five defined act.
This report found that the Chinese Communist Party had violated all of them. Can you put these findings into perspective for our viewers? How many
times throughout history has a country breached every single article of this convention?
IRWIN COTLER, CHAIR, RAOUL WALLENBERG CENTRE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: Well, we in Canada, for example, established the genocide prevention month. And we have
determined at this point that there have been eight genocides. But I have to say that this report demonstrates a singular state orchestrated act of
genocide.
The five main ones here that one finds, you have not only mass incarceration of 1.8 million Uyghurs of men, women children as young as 13.
But you have them targeted as well for forced labor, enslavement, torture, rape, and murder, you have mass sterilization.
In other words, birth control policies we not only have mass sterilization, but coercive abortions, and the like would dramatically reduced the
population in the years between 2015 and 2019. You have forcible separation of a half a million Uyghur children from their families.
You have a state orchestrated assault on the culture, the language, the memory, the religion, the destruction of mosques, and the light the
conversion of them into commercial centers you have which is sometimes always not appreciated, state orchestrated incitement to genocide, such as
the reference to the Uyghurs as being cancerous tumors that have to be eradicated and the like.
And a Supreme Court decision in Canada said that the very incitement to hate and genocide constitutes the crime, whether or not mass atrocities
follow which in this instance, there are mass atrocities, and they are constitutive of acts of genocide.
And I can say as someone as a Former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, who prosecuted for the crimes of genocide, this is
singular in its critical mass of evidence and state orchestrated assaults.
ANDERSON: Yonah, CNN has been covering this story for years. Our reporters have been intimidated and blocked every step of the way. I want just to
play a short clip from our Correspondent Matt River's trip to Shenyang in 2019. Just let's have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What's happening here is that this police officer does not want us to film. But what we believe is that that's a camp
right there. This is as close as we're unable to get. And right over there we believe are family members, presumably who could have family members
inside that camp and they're waiting to see them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I must note that the Chinese government has repeatedly decried the foreign media's reporting on the camps as inaccurate claiming
authorities have been transparent about the facilities. CNN has asked repeatedly to be allowed to visit the camps; all of these requests were
denied or ignored.
Yonah, what challenges did you face in compiling so much evidence and firsthand account from within these camps?
DIAMOND: Yes, well, like I said, there's the database online that really presents all this evidence in a consolidated form for us. And this massive
evidence, including the firsthand testimony from within the camps and within the detention sites, where reporters are not allowed in.
And camp guards and officials responsible for overseeing these camps are ordered not to release any information strictly.
[11:10:00]
DIAMOND: So the evidence we're relying on in terms of what is happening within the camps is really a mass of evidence from -- directly from the
victims and survivors, which, unfortunately there aren't that, you know, what we have is at least close to 100 firsthand testimonies who have both
made it out and have been willing to speak out on this, which are both very rare and dangerous.
So in that sense, we have a mass of evidence already that is corroborated - - victims corroborate each other from within the camps as to the methods of torture, there's designated interrogation rooms where sexual violence has
occurred. There are now victim testimonies corroborating each other as to evidence of widespread rape within the camps, gang rapes.
And so we're relying for what's really going on within the camps from the victims themselves. And that's because international and independent
mechanisms have been excluded from the region.
ANDERSON: And Irwin roughly 2 million Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities are believed to have been held in detention centers across Shenyang.
According to the U.S. State Department, China has maintained for years that these centers are necessary to prevent religious extremism and terrorism in
Shenyang.
And China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi says claims of genocide there could not be and I quote here could not be more preposterous. How do you answer
those denials?
COTLER: If they think it's so preposterous, why are they refusing to allow for an independent, impartial, international investigative mechanism that
would be unfettered in its inquiry? Several days ago, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Canada, Marc Garneau, and the Foreign Secretary of the
UK, Dominic Raab jointly issued a call for such an impartial, independent investigative mechanism.
The fact that China is not prepared to allow such a mechanism is more self incriminating than anything else that they're saying as part of their
denialism.
ANDERSON: Yonah, convictions for genocide, of course take place in international criminal tribunals which are held by the United Nations,
Rwanda and Yugoslavia are the famous examples. Establishing an International Criminal Tribunal requires the approval of the UN Security
Council of which China is a permanent member with veto power.
To any hearing on these allegations is highly unlikely you are an international human rights lawyer without a tribunal can this report go
anywhere?
DIAMOND: Yes, I think the report can and there are a number of initiatives that can be taken. Because we need to act upon this report, number one,
parliament's can follow the examples of the Canadian Parliament which became the first in the world to make a determination of genocide, as has
the Dutch Parliament since.
And also, governments like the United States which have made that determination, we need a critical mass of both parliamentary and
governmental alliances, that will in fact, reverse the asymmetrical relationship where China right now targets and bullies countries one by
one, China, building, Australia, Japan, India, Canada, we need to reverse that asymmetrical relationship and put China in the docket of the accused.
And we can in fact, utilize the International Criminal Court because while the special prosecutor rejected an initial claim there, as she did say she
was open to other evidence. And I believe now with this compelling evidence, and the fact that we have evidence that has been -- have crimes
committed on territories of state parties may allow the ICC to provide a framework for that purpose.
But again, there are other mechanisms here Magnitsky Sanctions, as the U.S. has done targeting those who have organized and orchestrated this genocide,
Forced Labor Prevention Act et cetera. We need, as I said, a critical mass of advocacy that will secure justice for the victims and accountability for
the human rights violators.
ANDERSON: And you, of course, are retired politician and legal scholar. Yonah, to this theme, no single country or coalition of countries can harm
China without harming themselves economically or gravely damaging the global economy. That seems to be the received wisdom at this point, right?
That reality often means that countries and businesses turn a blind eye to China's alleged human rights abuses.
[11:15:00]
ANDERSON: This report doesn't make any recommendations for action against China. What should be international community do now to hold China
accountable?
DIAMOND: Yes, thanks. For the first time, this report solely focuses on state responsibility for breaches of the Genocide Convention. And we have
showed that based on an extensive definitive and conclusive analysis by independent experts from every region of the globe.
And what this means is, it puts the onus on states and imposes obligations now on states under the Genocide Convention, not only to prevent and to
punish the crime under article one, but to avoid complicity in genocide.
And we know that a recent report identified at least 82 global brands that are potentially benefiting off of forced labor, which perhaps, which takes
one in five cotton products worldwide. And so we know that countries are who are signatories to the Genocide Convention, the 151 other parties are
now complicit in the crime of genocide.
And so this puts pressure on governments now, now that we know we must act, and we must halt complicity in the genocide. And we must prevent goods from
the region at the very least right now to avoid complicity because this implicates our criminal involvement other countries around the worlds
criminal involvement in the genocide, as well as the legal obligation now to prevent and punished.
So countries can take this is a matter between countries and countries have to make decisions between them and China, whether that affects trade deals
whether that effect goods coming from the region, and the like.
ANDERSON: Yonah Diamond is an International Human Rights Lawyer and the report's Principal Author. Irwin Cotler is Chair of the Raoul Wallenberg
Centre for Human Rights who worked in cooperation with the NUS lions Institute. Thank you both.
We have a lot more online about the Uyghur situation. You can find more about the report plus background on the crackdown and take a closer look at
the treatment of Uyghur women that is all @cnn.com CNN' digital site.
Well, to Myanmar now with the post coup crackdown is expanding. The military rulers are stripping independent media of their licenses and as
police appear to grow more aggressive with protesters. The human rights group in Myanmar says another official for Aung San Sui Shi's party has
died in custody.
Aung San Sui Shi remains in jail her civilian leadership dissolved by the military coup -- six weeks ago. CNN's Paula Hancocks is connecting us to
the latest move by the military there.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, we have seen the Myanmar military leadership trying to control the narrative effectively from the
beginning from just after that February 1st coup.
They have been trying to bring in a cyber security law; they have been amending laws to make sure that the people don't criticize the military and
curbing freedom of expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press. They've gone one further now five independent media outlets have been
stripped of their licenses.
And the military says that they are no longer able to operate. But what we have heard we've spoken to at least two of them, and they've said that they
will continue to operate. And they will find a way of making sure that their news is still published. One in particular going on YouTube making
sure that the images of what is happening inside Myanmar are seen and known about.
Now we do know that journalists have been targeted in the past, many have been arrested. So certainly these media outlets are now very concerned for
the safety of their journalists, but say that they will continue to operate.
Now one other thing we did see overnight was images and footage of the military storming the Mandalay Technological University. This is something
we've been hearing about since last weekend that hospitals and universities have started to be occupied by the military.
Now we did hear from the UN, they said they'd heard at least five hospitals had been occupied, or they didn't specify that it was the military that is
occupying them. But they did point out that they are protected under international humanitarian law and should not be occupied in any shape, or
form.
The military from their point of view is saying they are "Maintaining them" claiming that the doctors and nurses are part of the protest movement and
they have to maintain these particular locations. And one more thing to point out Becky because this appears to be a new tactic that has been tried
and used by the security forces overnight.
Hundreds of protesters were caught in one particular neighborhood in Yangon and the police had threatened according to local media and Reuters that
they were going to go house to house and find anyone who did not come from that district and arrest them.
[11:20:00]
HANCOCKS: There have been reports of dozens of arrests which we are seeking to confirm at this point. But it did. It was an event that did spark some
international condemnation. The U.S. the UK and the UN, all said that this particular event had to change had to end and protesters should be allowed
to go home.
Eventually in the early hours of the morning, the police did leave and many protesters were able to go home. But this is a new tactic we are seeing by
security forces and a new worrying tactic, Becky.
ANDERSON: Paula Hancocks reporting there. We may remember the old credit card slogan, don't leave home without it. Well, it is well that now applies
to the "Green Passport". You can get one if you've been vaccinated, we'll take a look at where it can take you.
Plus, all eyes and ears it seems are on Buckingham Palace as we await a royal response to what have been some pretty explosive allegations by the
Duke and Duchess of Sussex the latest from the UK is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Israel could be showing the world the road or at least the roadmap out of the pandemic. The country has begun issuing green passports
to those who have been vaccinated and that are a good portion of Israelis 40 percent at this point are holders of the passport.
Get to take the first steps back into normal conditions like eating inside restaurants go into the gym and sports venues to students is also passed
back into the classroom. Sam Kiley is in Jerusalem with a closer look at the new passport. Sam and all that comes with it explain if you will.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you're lucky enough to have had both jabs and to have what they call in the "Green
Passport", the vaccination certificate, you can go straight down the boozer and that is the good news. And it was a very exciting level of anticipation
preceded that Becky on Sunday and this is how it unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY (voice over): An hour before reopening Israeli Celebrity Chef Asaph Grenade (ph) is on site for the renascence of the kitchen at the center of
his Restaurant Empire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like a -- all over. Let's see it's going to -- I think lunch will be slowly picking up and then dinner we're already booked.
So it's going to be a long and happy day.
KILEY: It's not surprising really that there's a party atmosphere here in - - is perhaps the most famous restaurant in the city. Famous for its high energy music, high energy food, high energy chef, but also it's going to be
working at 75 percent capacity.
Patrons have to be six feet two meters apart. That's going to be policed invigilated by an extra member of staff and this is all going to be a
result of the introduction of the Israeli Green Passport.
[11:25:00]
KILEY (voice over): The vaccinations certificates that mean that slowly at least this economy can start to recover. First in line 30 minutes ahead of
their booking a couple from Tel Aviv proud of their vaccine passes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have it on the phone but here you can see, please, wonderful.
KILEY: Why are you so excited?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After a year --
KILEY (voice over): 40 percent of Israelis have had both vaccine shots and can now enjoy new freedoms to attend concerts, hotels, restaurants, bars,
even universities, with some limits on total numbers. But the fears of another lockdown loom over even the most optimistic, renewed restrictions
would be ruinous.
About 5 million Israelis have had a first dose of the vaccine, a world leading level of take up even though ultra orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs
are lagging behind. It's an achievement that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party will trump it in a couple of weeks remaining before
elections here.
KILEY: How does it feel to be opening?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little scary and very exciting.
KILEY: Why is it scary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, opening up to seeing customers again, it's been a year.
KILEY (voice over): He's screening customers for vaccine certificates.
And what if people don't have it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then they can sit outside.
KILEY (voice over): Not a bad option. After all, spring is in the air.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Now, Becky, of course, the Israeli government has been criticized by UN experts and human rights group and the Palestinian Authority for in
their terms its failure to extend the vaccination program into what they call the occupied territories, the areas where four and a half million
Palestinians living on the West Bank and in Gaza.
The Israelis have been showing perhaps enlightened self interest with a new program shortly to get underway or getting underway now to vaccinate about
120,000 Palestinian workers who work in the Jewish enclaves, the settlements on the West Bank and in the rest of Israel.
Of course, they are coming into close proximity with Israelis. It makes sense from an immunization perspective. But there has been considerable
criticism of Israel and also criticism internally of Benjamin Netanyahu's attempts to send some what they describe as extra vaccinations to close
friends of Israel's around the world. That's but countries that have been bending over backwards to accommodate his policies. Becky?
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley is in Jerusalem. Thanks, Sam. Well last hour we brought you the latest on the diplomatic toeing and froing across this region. It
is very, very busy behind the scenes in capitals across the Gulf. Let me tell you and now another update coming into us.
We are always keeping an eye on whose? Where and what it means for the region? To that end, Lebanon's Prime Minister Designate siding up with
Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov right here in Abu Dhabi. Mr. Hariri said they discussed Lebanon extensively.
Well, still ahead the Royal Family's lips are sealed at least for now when and if we can expect a response to Harry and Meghan's stunning interview is
up next time. And we speak with world renowned author and wellness expert Deepak Chopra, the pandemic has brought on stress like many have never
experienced before. What he says you can do to better cope?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson. It is just after half past eight from our Middle East
Broadcasting Hub here in Abu Dhabi. Well, all is silent, still silent on the Royal front.
A day after the Oprah Winfrey interview with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex aired in the United Kingdom. This afternoon Prince Charles kept mum on the
topic ducking questions while visited COVID vaccination center in London. Well, it seems the rest of Britain's Royal Family taking lead from Prince
Charles and keeping their lips sealed. So how long can they stay silent?
Well, it's been nearly two days and still no response to the allegations of racism and emotional abuse within the monarchy. 12.4 million people in the
UK tuned in to watch Prince Harry and Megan sit down with Oprah. That's half of those who were watching the box last night.
Many Britons frankly weren't happy with what they heard according to YouGov polling. 47 percent of those polled in the UK believe the interview was
inappropriate. Compare that with just 20 percent of Americans who believe the same the interview of course went out on Sunday night in the States.
While the British tabloids are lashing out at the Royal Couple for the "Tell All Interview" the U.S. media has been largely supportive. CNN's Max
Foster has the story from Windsor in England. Max day two, the reaction continues. How's it playing out?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Reaction from everyone apart from the Royal Family? Interestingly, I think it's interesting when you speak to
people involved in all of this they basically say they don't want to be rushed into coming out with any sort of response or statement they rising
above all of the pressure on them.
They're trying to take that the lead I think effectively and they're facing a lot of pressure have a look at the UK tabloids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER (voice over): This morning the Royal Family in crisis that according to "The British Tabloids" with headlines like so sad it's come to this,
worst royal crisis in 85 years and Palace in turmoil over Megan's racism claims.
OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN HOST: Did you leave the country because of racism?
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: There was a large part of that.
FOSTER (voice over): The Duchess of Sussex's a strange father Thomas Markel, dismissing his daughter's allegations of racism, saying in a
television interview this morning; he does not think the Royal Family is racist.
THOMAS MARKEL, MEGHAN MARKEL'S FATHER: I don't think the British Royal Family is racist at all. I don't think the British are racist.
FOSTER (voice over): As the fallout continues after Prince Harry and Meghan Duchess of Sussex level bombshell accusations against two of Britain's most
recognized institutions, the Royal Family and the press. A deluge of stories focused on Meghan revealing she's had thoughts of suicide and the
allegations of dysfunction and racism in the Palace.
MEGHAN MARKEL, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I just didn't want to be alive anymore. And that was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought.
FOSTER (voice over): One paper calls the interview self serving and other nicknames the couple's rift with the Royal Family, "Megxile", whilst
American outlets often appeared somewhat sympathetic. Some UK tabloids seem to be venting their anger and on television reactions ranged from shock to
dismay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a two hour "Trashathon" of our Royal Family of the Monarchy.
FOSTER (voice over): Many rushing to the couple's defense calling out the UK tabloids including Hillary Clinton.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The fact she did not get more support that the reaction was, you know, let's just paper it over and
pretend that it didn't happen or it will go away. Just keep your head down. Well, you know, this young woman was not about to keep her head down.
FOSTER (voice over): The U.S. largely more empathetic with even a show of support from the White House.
[11:35:00]
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And for anyone to come forward and speak about their own struggles with mental health and tell their own
personal story. That takes courage. That's certainly something the president believes.
FOSTER (voice over): But the insidious undercurrent of racism perhaps the most damning claim and the most explosive interview to rock the Royal
Family since his mother's interview with Martin Bashir.
HARRY: What I was seeing was history repeating itself, but more perhaps, or definitely, far more dangerous because then you're addressing.
FOSTER (voice over): One of the most jaw dropping accounts in the raw emotional interview with Oprah Winfrey, that unnamed members of the Royal
Family were worried about the skin color of Harry and Meghan's son.
The couple saying they only felt they had the family support, they would have gladly stayed. The very tabloids that Harry and Meghan say drove their
mental health to the brink swift to get the splashy headlines. The Daily Mail, Harry, twist the knife. And what have they done?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Quite a dilemma I think really Becky for the Palace because the tabloids are just going to keep niggling away at this story until there is
a Palace response. But at the same time, the Palace doesn't want to respond to them. And perhaps there are some in the Palace saying we shouldn't
respond we should rise above this.
Meghan and Harry are no longer members of the working royalty; they can say and do as they please. They are separate from us. So I suspect there are
lots of different views in the Palace on this. Ultimately, is the lady in the castle behind me who will make the decision and that's the Queen? She's
the head of the firm. She runs things she's going to have to make the decision. So we wonder what's going on behind castle walls.
ANDERSON: Max is in Windsor. Thank you, Max. Well, as max mentioned Tuesdays from pages have been splashed with headlines about the interview
with Britain's Daily Mirror, even calling it and you saw this in Max's piece, the worst Royal crisis in 85 years.
Well, Darren Lewis is the Assistant Editor and Columnist for The Daily Mirror. You'll also know him as a Contributor for CNN World Sport. He joins
me now from London and good to have you on Darren. That headline, somewhat controversial, it has to be said, considering recent scandals, such as the
allegations, for example against Prince Andrew. How is this the worst crisis in 85 years?
DARREN LEWIS, CNN WORLD SPORT CONTRIBUTOR: I think because I think it's alongside the Prince Andrew situation to be fair, because the Prince Andrew
situation, which has we've risen many times has never properly been addressed by Buckingham Palace. Shocking to the core and I'm among a number
of people who has raised the question why have we not had more on that?
And I think it's important for me to kind of make a distinction here because I kept hearing Max and yourself refer to the tabloids. It's a catch
all term that kind of brings in a lot of people who haven't been negative. As I say I'm Assistant Editor at The Daily Mirror. I've written a number of
positive pieces about Meghan Markel, one of which is in the paper today.
And as a black man, I feel the things that Meghan Markel feels. So when people talk about the tabloids as a catch all, it's a little bit unfair, in
some respects, you can point to headlines. But what you don't do is point to the editorial process that we've addressed at The Daily Mirror, which is
precisely why I am the Assistant Editor.
We had a period of introspection. It came after a footballer, a couple of years pointed to the negative portrayal that he had had, and compared to
the negative portrayal from a white footballer that there was other white footballer and said, why is there a difference?
It came after last year after the whole George Floyd, tragic murder. And when we looked at the picture, we saw that we didn't have enough black
voices to be able to talk to the issue properly. We looked at ourselves. Now it would be true to say that there are sections of my industry and I'm
sure you know better I'm very honest and very uncompromising about my honesty in these areas.
There are sections of the media that don't have enough black and brown voices in the editorial process. There are broadcasters, let's be clear,
who don't have enough black and brown voices in the editorial process. I would imagine your meeting this morning; I would ask how many black or
brown voices were in your editorial process.
This whole thing has given rise to a big, big issue around representation and diversity in the media. And we can point fingers at tabloid newspapers
and we would be right to do so.
[11:40:00]
LEWIS: But we are part of a media culture that needs to have a big, long hard look at itself.
ANDERSON: Now after Meghan's allegations around the conversations about Archie's skin color. You wrote Meghan, is as she has support across black
Britain, because so many people feel her pain. I just want then how it feels when allegations are dismissed or rejected? Certainly, some 47
percent of people who watched that interview last night in the UK said that they felt it was inappropriate.
LEWIS: Yes, well, as you as you rightly say, when you say how it feels when it's dismissed? You're talking about a broadcast if you're dismissed, not a
newspaper. And that underlines the point I made a second ago, the editorial process at broadcast is the media culture, the entire media culture needs
to be looked at.
Now, I'm not saying and I would not seek to defend any newspaper whose conduct does need to be looked at called out they need to speak for
themselves. I can speak for myself in my position, I could speak to my newspaper because we looked at the situation and we knew that we had to
address it we had on his conversations we continue to arise conversations.
ANDERSON: All right. Let me just put this to you though, because you wrote in "The Daily Mirror" last month, "We adults still don't get this. This
current generation is rooting for Meghan and Harry older heads maybe ensconced in the archaic idea of duty but your kids see the Duke and
Duchess of Sussex as being completely on their wavelength"
ITV saw a record 12 point 4 million viewers for the interview last night with four out of five of those viewers, aged 16 to 35. There does seem to
be a generational gap when it comes to the opinion of the couple and the monarchy. And I just wonder, given that gap, how the Palace moves forward
as an institution?
I do also want to talk to you about how the press moves forward as well. Because I want to just get your response to whether you are actually
denying the complicity of your paper at any point over the years that is decried this tabloid intrusion in, in Royal life that is decried by Prince
Harry in that interview. But I do you just wonder whether you think that anything will change at the Palace to begin with?
LEWIS: First of all, I can only speak to -- I'm not a spokesman for the press, I'm a spokesman for myself. And I can talk to the period that I've
been involved in the editorial process at "The Daily Mirror". And as I say, you know how honest I am? If I have an issue, part of being part in that
process means that I can speak about it. And I can be honest about it.
And I can say that I'm uncomfortable about it, and you're reading from my pieces. So you'll know that I've been very clear about the fact that we are
rooting for Meghan Markel, because young black people are rewriting the rules about how they want to see themselves in print online, on TV?
How they want to be represented? They are no longer prepared to see negative portrayals. When you talk about those figures my kids wanted to
see what the fuss was about last night? They wanted to watch. They wanted to see just how bad it is? They couldn't understand that the rules could be
different for a baby because of the color of his skin.
Things are different now, Becky, and I think that we can all look at make broad brushstrokes, but I think the debate needs to be had around the
entire media culture. Because once we do that, then we can start to get to maybe some uncomfortable answers about the people who make decisions in
newspapers.
But I'm part of the process at "The Daily Mirror". And we have addressed that and we're continuing to address that because you're right. We do need
to, but I can't speak for every newspaper --
ANDERSON: Yes. You work for us as well. And, you know, the efforts at CNN to ensure that we --
LEWIS: Absolutely.
ANDERSON: -- that we have representation, you know, in the work that we do across the board across bureaus. I mean, you work out at the London Bureau;
I work here in Abu Dhabi, where we have a good representation across the board.
So you know, I mean, but you're right, you're right to say the efforts need to be -- the efforts need to be made. Let's just before we go there was a
lot of focus in that interview about the relationship between the Palace and the press. Harry going so far as to say I am acutely aware of where my
family stands and how scared they are, of quote the tabloids turning on them?
When it comes to that circus surrounding the Royal Family you must be having conversations at "The Mirror" about where the accountability should
land? And you'll be having conversations with your colleagues across the media divide here. Is it the Palace or the press or both when it comes to
accountability at this point? How do we move forward?
[11:45:00]
LEWIS: Well, again, I just have to quickly make that distinction Becky, between the tabloids, it's not all tabloids. I know today, two publications
I'm sorry the last 24 hours two publications have made very clear where they stand on the issue.
So I think it's a little bit dangerous to say the tabloids. I know lots of people love to do that. But at "The Daily Mirror" we have had conversations
about how we should do things? How balanced we should be? And I think people want to lump everyone together and it's not fair to do that when
newspapers are looking at the way that that was.
ANDERSON: That was that was a quote from Prince Harry Darren, to be honest. So let's be clear about that. You know, that he was lumping the press
together there?
LEWIS: Sure. Sure. Now, I mentioned that, given the responses, and you know this thing is being played out in real time on social media, people very
unhappy, very uncompromising. And there is a debate to be had around race on both sides of the Atlantic.
As I said, before, the younger generation, no longer prepared to put up with and we've spoken about that we knew about it in relation to sport, but
in relation to society as well. The younger generation no longer prepared to put up with the kind of thing that they put up with before.
And they're prepared to risk this space in order to change things. And that's so significant, because if it means that things are better for them,
for their kids, then I'm all for that. And if that, you know if being honest, means that we get to a better place. I'm all for that, too.
So if you're asking me where we go from here? I'm not really bothered what the Palace do or don't do. All we can do is take responsibility for
ourselves. And as you rightly so we at CNN are doing that. And at "The Daily Mirror" that's happening as well.
ANDERSON: Yes, Darren, I'm just going to remind our viewers about the work that you do to stamp out racism, in football and across the world of sport.
I've told you this before. And I'll tell you again, I applaud those efforts. I wish you didn't have to continue to make those efforts. But
unfortunately you do because you know what? It's still there.
And just kick it out. Let's get rid of it. And it's always a pleasure, mate. Thank you very much indeed for joining us different story similar
theme. Thanks. We're taking a short break back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: For many people facing social isolation and stress brought on by this pandemic. Mindfulness has become a major coping tool. More and more
businesses are tapping into mindfulness as well for example Fitbit for example, teaming up with Mindfulness Expert Deepak Chopra with audio and
video classes for premium subscribers.
[11:50:00]
ANDERSON: Well, Author Alternative Medicine Advocate and Mindfulness Expert Deepak joining us now, from California and it are good to have you on. And
you are a world famous wellness leader. You've been studying the mind body connection for over 50 years.
Your insight and thoughts are so valuable to so many of our viewers who may be struggling around the world. And understandably so can you explain for
those who might be less familiar with the concept of mindfulness, than others? What are some of the benefits on how it can be used as a tool for
all of us?
DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR AND ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE ADVOCATE: So mindful just means to be present in this moment, to be present to this moment, and
respond consciously. That's all it means. Most of us respond like a bundle of conditioned reflexes and nerves triggered by people and circumstance
into predictable outcomes.
In other words, our conditioned mind is an algorithm. Mindfulness allows you to step back and choose your responses, and therefore facilitates what
we call intuition, insight, inspiration, vision, creativity, and conscious living.
And it has profound effects on the body because whatever happens in the mind is recorded in the brain and the body. Body mind should be considered
one unit like space time, mass energy wave particle.
And today, we can measure in real time, what's happening in our mind and how it's reflected in our body through heart rate, variability, body, core
body temperature, electro dermal responses, and many other things, including breathing rates?
So the partnership with Fitbit is just called the mindful method. And what it is, is in real time, you can look at if you're stressed or not, and you
can real time intervene. So now we have data to prove what we've been saying for 50 years.
ANDERSON: Well, this is this is fascinating. U.S. lawmakers have told CNN that they plan to introduce the COVID-19 Mental Health Research Act to fund
research on the mental health consequences of this pandemic.
And you know we may not have heard a similar line from other governments around the world, but certainly people pushing their governments to do more
on what is a part of the health service which has been so underfunded.
If funded at all, in places around the world, it is impossible to quantify the toll of the last year? People have lost their jobs, they've lost their
loved ones, and they have time have lost their sense of identity and purpose.
And what are the sorts of no cost simple tips that you would recommend for someone who is really struggling right now? Somebody might be watching this
conversation that you and I are having, and thinking just help me out, please.
CHOPRA: OK, so here's the big data point. Right now, suicide is the second most common cause of death among teenagers. Last year, more people died
from suicide in Japan than from COVID. Every 12 seconds somebody is committing suicide in the world.
While we are focusing on other things, including what's happening with the Royal Family, et cetera. There's a tragedy going on in the world. And we
cannot wait for governments or special interest groups we have to democratize mental well being.
So our foundation the Chopra Foundation has launched something called neveralone.love www.neveralone.love. Check it out, we have an AI that can
diagnose or at least have an idea of somebody's distressed within a few seconds. People are more vulnerable talking to a machine these days then to
human beings.
That tells us something about how incomplete our humanity is? But we have now the ark AI has intervened in approximately 500, 600 possible suicide
attempts. We've had over a million conversations going on in just the last few months. So we need to democratize well being.
Simple tips, attention, deep listening, affection, deep caring, appreciation, being grateful to the people in your life and acceptance
don't try to change them. If we can create a pandemic of these four A attention, appreciation, affection and acceptance. Even through the
internet. We have a beginning but we have to get back to normal which is -- we have to engage in social intercourse.
[11:55:00]
ANDERSON: OK. Deepak it's a pleasure having you on. You've called this period an existential spiral. And let's hope that people take your advice,
particularly those who are finding it tough at the moment, don't get into that existential spiral. I hope that you will eventually say when all is
said and done that we avoided it. It's been a pleasure having you on sir, with some sage words and advice as ever. Thank you. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Russia and China plan to open up shop on the moon. The two countries have signed a memorandum of understanding to build an
International Lunar Research Station. They're going to work together in planning and designing and implementing the project in a sign of galactic
hospitality. That two say any nation can take part in the Lunar Research Station.
Just before we go the UAE's Hope Space Probe which is orbiting Mars sent back this incredible high resolution image? This is a composite image taken
with the Emirates exploration image or EXI which is on board the probe the dark spot.
Have a look at this the dark spot you see there is "Olympus" it's the tallest volcano in the entire solar system. We are looking at that from an
altitude of over 13,000 kilometers. But it does seem to dwarf the other land features around it. It's about 25 kilo meters or 16 miles high
according to NASA.
It's about 100 times the volume of the largest volcano on earth that's Mauna Loa in Hawaii. From Mars back to Abu Dhabi, it is a very good night
from the team working with me here stay safe. Stay well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
