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Trial Resumes For Ex-Cop Charged In George Floyd's Death; Prosecution Questions Minneapolis Police Lieutenant; Biden Speaks As Pandemic Recovery Escalates, U.S. Adds 916K Jobs; Police LT: "You Need To Provide Medical Care For A Person Who Is In Distress" Even If Ambulance Is En Route; Police LT: "If Your Knee Is On A Person's Neck, That Can Kill Him". Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired April 02, 2021 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTOR: You can see this officer - here?
SGT. JOHN EDWARDS, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: And he appears to be holding something is that right?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: Is that the crime scene log?
EDWARDS: I believe so.
SCHLEICHER: You testified at some point you learned that Mr. Floyd had died, correct?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: And do you recall how you receive that information?
EDWARDS: It was later on in the night, Sergeant Dale actually informed me that he had Mr. Floyd had passed away.
SCHLEICHER: Was that pretty shortly after Dale and Zimmerman had arrived?
EDWARDS: Yes, yes.
SCHLEICHER: About 10:13 pm, is that right?
EDWARDS: It was sometime after Sergeant Dale and Lieutenant Zimmerman arrived.
SCHLEICHER: Then, after that point where there are arrangements made for transport officers to bring Lane and King to City Hall pursuant to critical
incident protocol?
EDWARDS: There were.
SCHLEICHER: Do you watch that happen?
EDWARDS: Yes, officers Walensky (ph) and Officer - responded to the scene. And they were - Officer King and Officer Lane was Transport Sergeants.
SCHLEICHER: Publish exhibit 90. Is additional body worn camera footage? Do you see Officer - Sergeant - in this photo?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: Would you take your stylus and draw a circle? And let's see.
EDWARDS: I don't see well, let's go in this photo.
SCHLEICHER: Was this according to the timestamp 22:18:14. Is that right?
EDWARDS: Correct.
SCHLEICHER: OK. That was around the time that the transport officers arrived. And I'm assuming the transport would have happened fairly shortly
after that.
EDWARDS: Correct.
SCHLEICHER: And they transported Lane and King to - room 100 within City Hall?
EDWARDS: Room 100.
SCHLEICHER: And it was about shortly after that about 15 minutes or so later that the BCA took over the scene?
EDWARDS: Yes, I was notified by Lieutenant Zimmerman that the BCA is on their way and they'll be taken over the scene. So we were requested me and
my guys were requested to just stay putt first thing in security.
SCHLEICHER: Do you recall when BCA arrived?
EDWARDS: I don't remember what time they arrived. No.
SCHLEICHER: I'll show you exhibit 91. You remember the name of the agent?
EDWARDS: Yes, I believe his name was a Special Agent Michael Phil.
SCHLEICHER: Can you tell the jury what you see here and exhibit 91? Who are people --?
EDWARDS: That appears to be Special Agent Michael Phil. standing alongside Lieutenant Zimmerman?
SCHLEICHER: Here?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: That's at 2300, is that right?
EDWARDS: Correct.
SCHLEICHER: That's the approximate time that the BCA took over the scene?
EDWARDS: Approximately.
SCHLEICHER: You saw Special Agent Phil had a conversation with Lieutenant Zimmerman after that conversation took place? Did you have a conversation
with Lieutenant Zimmerman?
EDWARDS: I know I believe I had a conversation with both of them afterwards a brief interaction.
SCHLEICHER: When did the Lieutenant - did Lieutenant Zimmerman remain at the scene after the BCA took over a tea leave?
EDWARDS: He came up to me and just told me pretty much set in the BCA's hands now and they'll be here and just to ensure that myself and my
officers remained on scene for scene security until the BCA tells us they're done with their job and that we can take down the crime scene tape
and we've --.
SCHLEICHER: Publish exhibit 92. There's a Special Agent Phil.
EDWARDS: Yes, that is.
SCHLEICHER: During the period of time you were speaking with him and getting instruction on what to do with the scene?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: Did he ask you to do anything with the squad 320?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: What did he tell?
EDWARDS: He told me that they were taking custody of both the squad and Mr. Floyd's vehicle and we noticed that the squad was still running. He asked
me to open it up and power down, which I did.
[11:05:00]
SCHLEICHER: Did you remove anything from the vehicle?
EDWARDS: No, sir.
SCHLEICHER: Now, at this point in the BCA has the scene and you're no longer taking any investigative steps or collecting evidence, is that
right?
EDWARDS: Correct.
SCHLEICHER: But did you make observations of other officers doing those things watching the BCA?
EDWARDS: Such as.
SCHLEICHER: Such as anything with the vehicle?
EDWARDS: No. No.
SCHLEICHER: Did you--
EDWARDS: I didn't see anybody doing anything with the vehicles any other officer is that's what you're asking?
SCHLEICHER: Did you see other officers taking photographs looking at the vehicle?
EDWARDS: No sir.
SCHLEICHER: Did you see any forensic scientists or people you recognize that the forensic scientists come onto the scene?
ESWARDS: Just the team of people that Special Agent Michael Phil had with him.
SCHLEICHER: And those--
EDWARDS: --and there were several BCA people there.
SCHLEICHER: Those were the folks who were allowed in the scene. Is that right?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: At some point, did you watch the Mr. Floyd's vehicle be actually towed away by the BCA?
EDWARDS: Yes, ultimately, specializing in your head, both the squad car as well as Mr. Floyd's vehicle towed from the scene.
SCHLEICHER: And you watch them do that.
EDWARDS: Yes, I will still on seeing them.
SCHLEICHER: Publish exhibit 94. Is this an image of the BCA towing away squad 320?
EDWARDS: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: And they'd already told the SUV at this point. Is that right?
EDWARDS: I believe so.
SCHLEICHER: Can you tell the jury then what you did with the scene after the vehicles were towed away?
EDWARDS: After the BCA had the vehicles towed away it wasn't very long after that Special Agent Michael Phil told me that they were all finished
now and we could take down the crime scene tape and leave.
SCHLEICHER: Did you do so?
EDWARDS: Yes, sir.
SCHLEICHER: Publish exhibit 95. This is at 3:34:54 seconds. What is this? What is this image show?
EDWARDS: Is that 3:34 am? And that's me. Those are my hands helping take down crime scene tape.
SCHLEICHER: And so at this point, then the crime scene was clear, no longer needed to be secured and you will be able to exit the area. Is that right?
EDWARDS: Correct.
SCHLEICHER: Thank you very much. I have no further questions, your honor.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Good morning, everybody. I am Bianna Golodryga. We are in day five in the trial of Derek Chauvin. We have been watching the
testimony of Sergeant John Edwards, who's a Minneapolis Police Sergeant, who came to the scene in the moments and hours following the death of
George Floyd.
I want to get our panel Laura Coates to come in and weigh in here along with Charles Ramsey, to get their take on what they just heard and the
impact of any from John Edwards' testimony. Laura, what did you take away?
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it might seem like a very sort of benign or you know to sort of thing going on right now. But with
the prosecution has to do is it got to ensure they're very meticulous about presenting evidence, what happened all the way through the end of it being
a crime scene?
They speak to witnesses where any witness is compromised. Was there anything that was tainted on the scene in any way, shape or form? They've
got to lay it out. They don't want the defense to be able to articulate at a later time that something was awry in the investigation or development
this case or that there was some body of evidence or something that would be important to their defense.
GOLODRYGA: Chief Ramsey this is the first time I believe we have heard from a police officer throughout this testimony this week. Anything standout to
you from what we just heard from Sergeant Edwards.
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, there are some procedural differences that are different from anything that my experience
in dealing with these kinds of things and that they do in Minneapolis. For example Officers King and Lane we're still on the scene when the Sergeant
arrived.
GOLODRYGA: Excuse me. I'm so sorry, Chief Ramsey we are going back to another witness. Please hold your thought we'll come back out to you after.
[11:10:00]
LT. RICHARD ZIMMERMAN, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: Z-I-M-M-E-R-M-A-N.
MATTHEW FRANK, PROSECUTOR: Thank you. Can you please tell the jurors what you do for a living?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm a police officer with Minneapolis Police Department.
FRANK: How long have you been a police officer?
ZIMMERMAN: Since June, June 3rd of 1981.
FRANK: And all that with Minneapolis?
ZIMMERMAN: No. The first four years from 81 to 85 I worked for the Fillmore County Sheriff's Department in Southeast Minnesota.
FRANK: What did you do there?
ZIMMERMAN: I was a Patrol Deputy responding to 911 calls.
FRANK: And so then it was 1985 that you started with Minneapolis?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes. The weekend off and started in Minneapolis in June 5th of 1985.
FRANK: And are you a Licensed Police Officer in the State of Minnesota?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I am.
FRANK: When did you first obtain your license?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm sorry.
FRANK: When did you first obtain your license?
ZIMMERMAN: June 3rd of 1981.
FRANK: And as a police officer having that license, are you required to do certain things to maintain that license?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: What do you - what kinds of things do you have to do?
ZIMMERMAN: We have to do continuing that like any other professional license, and we have to do 40 hours of different education, professional
education in a certain time period. I'm not sure if it's one or two years.
FRANK: And if you don't somebody is going to like to know, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, they will.
FRANK: And so since 1981, have you done all that have been required to maintain your license?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I am.
FRANK: When you started with the Minneapolis Police Department in 1985, what was your job or duties?
ZIMMERMAN: I was a Patrolman. I worked the north side precinct it's called precinct four. And I worked at the third precinct is called precinct three,
of course. And then my permanent assignment was the fifth precinct, which is like Franklin Nicollet Hennepin Avenue, Lake Street.
FRANK: So when you're working as a Patrol Officer, what kind of things do you do?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, well, we respond to 911 calls. We, you know, deter crime, or tried to deter crime, I should say. And, yes, that's kind of what we do
traffic control that kind of thing.
FRANK: Out on the streets every day?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: At least every day, your work, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And so then, did your job duties change eventually?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, in 1990, I cracked became early prevalent in the late 80s. And so I joined the crack team in the fifth precinct where there were four
officers and a sergeant. And we would, you know, do search warrants, looking for drugs, that kind of thing.
FRANK: And so what year was that I'm sorry?
ZIMMERMAN: Pardon me?
FRANK: What year was that?
ZIMMERMAN: 1992 and 1993.
FRANK: And what did you do then in 1993?
ZIMMERMAN: I took the sergeant's exam and passed it and was assigned to the Adult Sex Crimes Unit.
FRANK: And so what does it mean to be promoted to sergeant?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, you take a series of tests. And once you're promoted, you express your interest is patrol, or investigations. And so I talked to the
Lieutenant in charge of the Sex Crimes Unit and expressed my interest.
FRANK: So you mentioned having to take an exam?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Just like sitting down and like we're doing school taking the exam?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, it was a written exam. And once you pass that phase, then you would take an oral exam, and then you were given your scores.
FRANK: And so you became a sergeant, did some supervisory responsibilities come with that?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Can you just describe for the jurors like, what supervisory what kinds of responsibilities the sergeant takes on?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, well as an investigative sergeant you know, you're assigned case to follow up with the victims. And you do search warrants in when
you're doing search warrants; you have officers that assist you.
[11:15:00]
ZIMMERMAN: So you'll assign them duties that, you know, such as, you know, assisting with the search warrant.
FRANK: And also have responsibilities to make sure the officers underneath you are properly trained.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, absolutely. Yes. And, you know, when I would do search warrants, I would explain to the officers that we don't want anyone to get
hurt, either the officers or the subjects.
FRANK: And so this is continuing with your history, then you went into the Sex Crimes Unit as a sergeant and subsequent to that, did your
responsibilities change?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Can you tell the jurors about that?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes. In 1995, the Homicide Unit was expanding because of the amount of murders that were occurring in Minneapolis in 1995. So they
brought in me and one other guy from the Robbery Unit. And we were assigned partners in the Homicide Unit.
FRANK: And which unit do you currently work in?
ZIMMERMAN: 1995?
FRANK: Which unit do you currently work in?
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yes. I'm sorry the Homicide Unit.
FRANK: So from 1995 to today, you've been in the Homicide Unit?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And did you at some time during that period receive another promotion?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Tell the jurors about that please.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes in 2007 I took a lieutenant's exam, or 2006. I took the lieutenant's exam. And that's a series of again, written tests and oral. If
you pass that phase, then you go on to the oral interview phase. And you're notified of your results.
FRANK: And so you were promoted to Lieutenant?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I was.
FRANK: So how did that change your responsibilities, your job duties?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, when usually when you're promoted, you're assigned to a different unit than you worked. But they asked me to stay in the Homicide
Unit, because of my experience. And so I took over the job in 2008, November of 2008.
And the duties are I get called for every death suspicious death. Deaths where, you know, it's clearly a homicide deaths where officers have any
question about how a person may have died. I go out to the scenes.
FRANK: And you also supervise other officers?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I do.
FRANK: You just describe for the jury your responsibilities in supervising other officers?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, we have right now we have 12 detectives in homicide, that makeup, six teams. They work with a partner in homicide, and they're on a
rotation basis for being on call. They're on call Monday through Monday.
And when a team is on call, I'll go off to a scene assess, you know what the death may be involved. And I'll call the on call team to come in and
start working the case.
Frank: So you still respond to scenes?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: But you also supervise the work of the investigators?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes. I, every morning when I come in, I pull up - it's called pulling up the cases. And we pull up every death report in Minneapolis and
I'll look through each report. And I'll assign a case that I might have some questions about.
And I'll talk to the detectives explain why I think this needs to be looked into. And that's Monday through Friday kind of thing.
FRANK: And so are you their direct supervisor then?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: You started with Minneapolis Police Department in 1985.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Do you know where you are in terms of seniority in the Minneapolis Police Department?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Where is that?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm the number one officer in seniority. I hate to say that, but--
FRANK: Understood. Where you called out was scene on May 25th of 2020.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And do you recall - well, why you were calling to that same scene?
[11:20:00]
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Homicide response or the - I respond initially to critical incidents. And a critical incident can be anything from a death to a
serious injury of either officers or the public. And so I was called in on this one.
FRANK: So were you technically on duty at that time?
ZIMMERMAN: I was at home. And I was notified by my commander of this incident that happened at 38th in Chicago.
FRANK: And so then, when did you respond to that scene?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Do you recall about what time it was that you arrived at the scene?
ZIMMERMAN: It was a little bit after 9 pm.
FRANK: And the location of 38th in Chicago is you familiar - were you familiar with that location at that time?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FREANK: Fair to say no stranger to calls of violent incidents at that intersection?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, absolutely.
FRANK: And when you arrived, can you just describe for the jury what you first saw when you arrived at that location?
ZIMMERMAN: I arrived on 38th Street, and I parked on the southwest corner on 38th street. I saw yellow tape up; we call this crime scene tape around
the intersection. I saw Sergeant Edwards who I know from work on his cell phone.
And I saw two officers and he was like in the middle of the scene, kind of. And then I saw two officers standing on the southwest or the southeast
corner of the intersection.
FRANK: And did you then approach those two officers?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I Sergeant Edwards appeared to be busy on the phone. So I just walked up to the two officers.
FRANK: And I'm going to show you well we had an opportunity before courts to show you a piece of body cam footage shows you're approaching the scene,
correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And that appeared to be a true and accurate representation of your approach to those two officers?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, it is.
FRANK: And that reflects the time as well.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: Your honor, are you able to offer, exhibit 96.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 96 received.
FRANK: And we'll publish 96. Pause here just for a moment. This is the intersection of 38th in Chicago.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And it looks like the time reflected here is 21:56.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: So for those of us who have difficulty with that kind of math even what is the real time?
ZIMMERMAN: It is four minutes to 10.
FRANK: OK. So it was a little closer to 10 when you arrived?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And there is an individual and it's dark and it's kind of hard to see. But do you know who the individual is in the crosswalk there?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't know.
FRANK: And alright, let's continue. And just for the record at 21:56:53 you see across the intersection there appears to be a person walking towards
us.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And do you know who that is?
ZIMMERMAN: That would be me.
FRANK: All right. And we'll continue please.
[11:25:00]
FRANK: So it appears that you came to the scene in street clothes, right?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And that's the moment where you walked up and talk to the two officers.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I did.
FRANK: Did you recognize those two officers?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes. No, I didn't.
FRANK: And you appeared to be on the phone. Do you recall who you were talking to?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't know if it was my commander or a deputy chief, I'm not sure.
FRANK: So then when you arrived there--
GOLODRYGA: Derek Chauvin and we're going to briefly break into the trial of Derek Chauvin and go to the White House where President Biden is delivering
remarks on the economy and the jobs report come March.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm looking forward to it. Well, good morning. This morning, we've learned that our economy created
900,000 jobs in March means the first two months of administration; I see more new jobs created in the first two months in any administration in
history.
But we still have a long way to go to get our economy back on track after the worst economic and job crisis nearly a century. But my message to the
American people is this help is here. Opportunities coming and a long lasting, there's hope so for so many families - so many families.
Credit for this progress belongs not to me, but to the American people, hard working women and men who have struggled through this pandemic, never
given up and are determined to get the country back on track, as well as their families. But I think it's also a reflection of two things we're
doing here.
First, the new economic strategy we've launched one focused on building from the bottom up and the middle out, and one that puts government on the
side of working people and that rewards work, not wealth. When we invest in the American people, it's not just those the top that make our economy
grow.
They're the ones that make it grow ordinary Americans. We saw the economy gain traction in March, as the American rescue plan moved and got passed,
bringing new hope to our country. And we're going to continue to implement that law in the weeks ahead.
By April 7th next week, over 130 million households will have gotten their $1,400 per person rescue check. Funds are on their way to local communities
to put educators, health care workers, home health care aides, police, firefighters, sanitary workers back on the job for getting more aid for
small businesses, we're also going to hang on open sign, again on a door to rehire folks that had to be let go.
And in the months ahead a new child care tax credit, will cut taxes and provide help to millions of families with young children. There's nothing I
know you're tired hear me say this. But I mean there's nothing the American people cannot do if we give them a chance. And the American rescue plan
does precisely that for hardworking middle class folks, at long last.
Secondly, today's report also reflects the progress we've made on my other key priority, getting the American people vaccinated. We've turned around a
slow moving vaccination program and to being the envy of the world.
Yesterday, we set an all time record for Thursday vaccinations and in a seven day period that was the first ever where we administered 20 million
shots in seven day - seven days. That's 20 million shots in a week. No other countries come close to doing that. So we made significant progress
on that front.
But the fight is far from over. We know that vaccines are safe and effective. We're vaccinating more people than any other country on Earth.
We also have progress on jobs and progress on vaccinations. But in the face of this great news, I need also to make this clear and direct statement in
American people.
The progress we've worked so hard to achieve can be reversed on the economic front. The benefits and impacts the American rescue plan are
temporary by design. It was a - it is a rescue plan. But as we get the economy back on his feet, we need to do the hard work of building back
better for good for not just for a while but for good.
Not just the short term but for good. That's why I proposed the American jobs plan on Wednesday in Pittsburgh. It's an eight year program that
invites and let me put it another way. I've heard from everybody all across the country by the need for insurance structure.
[11:30:00]
How many times have we heard this is infrastructure week over the last four years but every second week was infrastructure week but no infrastructure
was built? Well listen, eight year program that invests in our roads, our bridges, broadband airports, ports, and fixing our water systems is going
to repair our VA hospitals across the country.
Many of them more than 50 years old and are in real need of help. It will invest in research and development to outcompete China and the rest of the
world. Independent analysis shows that if we pass this plan, economy will create 19 million jobs, good jobs, blue collar jobs, jobs that pay well as
long term jobs for pipe fitters, healthcare workers, those who work in a steel factories and the cutting edge labs as well.
The new report out this week shows that nearly 90 percent of the infrastructure jobs created the American jobs plan can be filled by people
who don't have a college degree. 75 percent of those good paying jobs don't need an associate's degree, is a blue collar blueprint for increasing the
opportunity for people.
This is an economic through those who have helped build the country and have been ignored or neglected for much too long by our government. It's a
once in a generation investment in our economic future. A chance to win the future paid for by asking big corporations, many of which do not pay any
taxes at all, just to begin to pay their fair share.
And I won't raise a penny tax on a family making less than $400,000 a year. No federal tax. No addition. When congress comes back after this Easter
break, I'm going to be began meeting with Democrats, Republicans about this plan. I've spoken to Republicans on the phone I've been looking forward to
meeting with them.
They all have their ideas about what it will take what they like and what they don't like. That's a good thing. That's the American way, debate is
welcome. Compromise is inevitable. Changes in my plan are certain, but in action is not an option.
The American people have been promised action infrastructure for decades. They've been promised that after our leaders would take our country and
make it more competitive for decades. I've made my plan to address this long overdue need and it's clear.
Polls already show strong support for infrastructure investment for the American people and their democratic public is independence. Congress
should debate my plan, change and offer alternatives that they think that's what they have to do. But congress should act.
Likewise, on the virus, our program there too can be undone. As fast as removing more adults remained to be vaccinated in April, May and June then
have already been vaccinated in February and March. We are not even halfway done yet.
Too many Americans are acting as if this fight is over. It is not. I've told people that if my administration did the hard work to get these shots
to all Americans in the next few months, if the American people continued to do their part, mascot practice social distancing, we could have a more
normal July 4.
But this is still April, not July. We aren't there yet. And so cases are going up again. The virus is spreading more rapidly in many places. Thus
are going up in some states. So I ask I plead with you, don't give back the progress. We've also fought so hard to achieve.
We need to finish this job. We need every American to buckle down and keep their guard up in this home stretch. Wear your mask. Keep safe distance
from one another. Wash your hands; get vaccinated when it's your turn. That's how we're going to beat the virus.
Cast off the weight of the pandemic that's holding our economy back. Well, the earliest signs from this job report. This announcing today is promising
that the American rescue plan is starting to make a real difference. Today's report also reminds us how deep a hole we started in.
After a year of devastation, there are still 8.4 million fewer jobs today than there were last March. 8.4 million, we created 900,000 again, but 8.4
million jobs fewer today than last March.
So too many Americans have been unemployed for longer than six months, too many women have been forced out of the workforce. Unemployment among people
of color remains far too high.
[11:35:00]
Yes, we make progress by starting to build an economy from the bottom up in the middle out. And yes, the American rescue plan is laying the foundation
for that economy. But we still need the American jobs plan to build on that foundation to build this country back better.
So the bottom line is this. Today's report is good news. Today's - sports shows that the country can what it can do when we act together to fight a
virus to give working people the help they need. But we still have a long way to go.
But I know that we're going to get there and we're going to get there together. May God bless you all and may you have a happy Easter and a whole
Easter. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And you have just been listening to the president touting and embracing a really strong jobs report for the month of March. Let's listen
in to some questions he may be answering.
BIDEN: Raising taxes essential will not slow the economy all asking corporate America just to pay their fair share were much slower the economy
it will make the economy function better and will create more energy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to fight your administration every step of the way. What is your reaction for that?
BIDEN: If Republicans argue that we don't need infrastructure in need not, they've been talking about the need for it for years there. If the
Republicans decide that we need it, but they're not going to pay for it, it's just going to increase the deficit.
If the Republicans say the next phase of my plan, we don't need to invest in VA hospitals and keep the sacred obligation we made in so many
Americans. If the Republicans saved the 400,000 homes and schools and daycare centers that have led pipes, lead pipes delivering water to their
doors.
If they say we shouldn't be doing that, what do you think would happen if they found out all the lead pipes were up in the capitol? And every time
they turned on the water phone?
So I think look, I think we're going to have - I think the Republicans voters are going to have a lot to say about whether we get a lot of stuff.
GOLODRYGA: And the president there addressing some of the challenges that he will be facing obviously touting this very impressive and strong jobs
report for the month of March 619,000 jobs were created. That's the best monthly jobs report we've seen since August, the unemployment rate has
dropped to 6 percent.
But the president says as hopeful as this is there are still a lot of work to be done. And for more on that, let's bring in CNN's John Harwood who is
at the White House. So John on the one hand, you have a very strong jobs report. On the other hand, you have a president whose saying, listen, a lot
of this is due to vaccines increasing, and we're leading the world now in vaccinations.
But this is temporary if in his opinion, more stimuli; more money isn't applied to the economy longer term.
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, this is a new president in an exceptionally fortunate position. He's got the wind at his
back both on progress on vaccinations which is going to bring the pandemic under control and on progress on the economy.
But what he's trying to do is make the case, which is not always easy for politicians to make when conditions are improving that on both fronts you
need, congress needs to keep its foot on the gas. He wants to make sure that the American people continue to be safe, so we don't backslide on the
pandemic.
And more importantly than that from his point of view is this long term plan build back better the jobs planning he outlined for physical
infrastructure this week, the forthcoming family plan to build up human capital.
He's trying to make the case that we don't just build a get back to a low unemployment economy of the kind we had before we want to build a different
economy. That is a more equitable economy.
And trying to keep Democrats together behind that plan, no indication that he's going to get Republican support, but he's trying to push to keep
Democrats unified and not have the good news that we're experiencing now.
Sap the energy for action going forward both to raise the taxes needed and to do the spending that he is called for.
GOLODRYGA: Right, sort of preemptively addressing some of the issues that Republicans have been raising now for weeks. John Harwood, thank you so
much. And we want to take you back now to the trial of Officer Derek Chauvin, we're in fifth day of testimony now let's resume.
ZIMMERMAN: --his well being and is your responsibility.
FRANK: Once you handcuff somebody, does that affect the amount of force that you should consider using?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.
FRANK: How so?
[11:40:00]
ZIMMERMAN: Once a person is cuffed, the threat level goes down all the way, you know, to they're cuffed, how can they really hurt you? You know? And--
FRANK: Well, certainly there could be certain circumstances when a cuff person could still be combative.
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, absolutely, yes. Yes. But you're getting injured is way down.
FRANK: What do you mean by that?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, if you're, you could have some guy tried to kick you or something. But you can move out of the way, that person is
handcuffed, you know, and they - the threat level is just not there.
FRANK: So by handcuffing somebody, you've taken away some of their ability to harm you.
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.
FRANK: And if somebody who was handcuffed becomes less combative. Does that change the amount of force that an officer is to use under policy?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: How so?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, if they become less combative you --you may just have them sit down on a curb or the idea is to calm the person down. And if they are
not a threat to you at that point you try to, you know, to help them so that they're not as upset as they may have been in the beginning.
FRANK: In your 30 years of training with Minneapolis police department, in your experience, have you been trained on the prone position?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And what has your training been specific to the prone position?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, once you secure or handcuff a person, you need to get them out of the proposition as soon as possible because it restricts their
breathing.
FRANK: When you handcuff somebody behind their back? Well, as part of training, have you been handcuffed behind the back?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And have you been trained on what happens to individuals when they're handcuffed behind the back?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: So when somebody is handcuffed behind their back, how does it affect them physically?
ZIMMERMAN: It stretches the muscles back through your chest. And it makes it more difficult to breathe.
FRANK: If you put somebody in the prone position, well, is it well known this danger of putting somebody in the prone position? How long have you
had training on the dangers of a prone position as part of Minneapolis police officer?
ZIMMERMAN: For - since 1985.
FRANK: And is it part of your training regularly to learn about keeping somebody in the prone position?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: And what has the training banned with regard to the prone position?
ZIMMERMAN: Once a person is cuffed, you need to turn them on their side or have them set up. You need to get them off their chest.
FRANK: Why?
ZIMMERMAN: Because of the - as I mentioned earlier, your muscles are pulling back when you're handcuffed. And if you're laying on your chest
that's constricting your breathing even more.
FRANK: In your training as a Minneapolis police officer, are you provided with training and medical intervention?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: I assume you're not taught to be paramedics but you receive some level of training.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, we're first responders; I think is what our category would be.
FRANK: Does that include doing what we think of CPR chest compressions?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
FRANK: How often is that part of your training?
ZIMMERMAN: CPR, it's like every other year or so.
FRANK: And as part of your training within the Minneapolis police department policies, is there an obligation to provide medical intervention
when necessary?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely.
FRANK: What is the general teaching that you get with regard to medical intervention?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, again, it it's been that you need to provide medical care for the person that is in distress.
[11:45:00]
FRANK: And would that be true even if you've called an ambulance to come to the scene?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, absolutely the - you know, the ambulance will get there in whatever amount of time and in that time period you need to provide medical
assistance before they arrive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't we take our mid-morning break?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There's a deal we'll take our 20 minute mid-morning break. The attorneys will help deal with the issue while you're operating.
And--
GOLODRYGA: And the court is going to be taking a 20 minute break now on day five of testimony in the trial of Officer Derek Chauvin. I want to bring in
our experts in our panel right now to discuss what we have just been listening to Laura Coates. While we were away and taking the president's
commentary.
I want to tell our viewers what we heard from Minneapolis police officer and veteran police officer over 40 years, lieutenant Richard Zimmerman
because this was really telling the lawyer the prosecutor asked, are there different kinds of force and officers can use?
Have you ever been trained to kneel on the neck of someone handcuffed in prone position? The police officer or lieutenant Zimmerman said, no, I
haven't. Would you consider that force?
What level of force he was asked that would be top tier the deadly force? Why? Zimmerman says because if you kneel if your knees on somebody's neck
that can kill them. That sort of lays out exactly what we saw for nine minutes and 29 seconds. What was your take on that?
COATES: Wow that was astounding testimony, really the most compelling law enforcement testimony we've heard in this trial to date? Bianna because of
course, common sense would dictate you would tell a child don't kneel on the neck of another child, because you would inherently know of the risk to
hear this coming from a veteran officer who says that he's known about the danger of being able to breathe in a handcuff prone position since 1985.
He's been trained on this issue, talking about this as a use of deadly force. It blows out of the water, any notion that the officer was trained
to sustain this level of force on somebody, once they were no longer posing any conceivable threat.
I don't know how you're going to cross examine on somebody who's a 40 year veteran on this issue of training combined with common sense because again,
it's not whether an officer can generally use force.
It's about whether the sustained use of force transformed from reasonable use of force by an officer to felony assault underlying the second degree
murder charge. I mean, it's blowing me away to think about the idea of this officer.
So matter of fact - saying what common sense has dictated a knee on somebody's neck could kill them, sustaining that knee on the neck even
after force is even reasonably required. Where do you go from here as the defendant?
GOLODRYGA: And Chief Ramsey, you have been talking about appropriate force and what isn't considered appropriate force for us throughout this trial?
Right now, we have heard from two police officers, two Minneapolis police officers give their take on what they view in particular with Lieutenant
Zimmerman on what he viewed was appropriate force and what's not appropriate force. Would you concur with the testimony that you heard from
him?
RAMSEY: Yes and I'm not surprised at his testimony. Because what he's doing is he's simply, he simply referring to his training and as also as
knowledge, remembers, this guy's in homicide. He's been in homicide for quite a while he deals with death on a regular basis, unfortunately.
And so he knows exactly what he's talking about. Everything about that was wrong. He talked about the prone position to restrictive breathing, we call
it positional asphyxia. And if you have a person in that position, which you may well have to put them in that position to get them under control.
But you get them out of that position as soon as you can, again, he talked about that critical decision making model, you have to constantly reassess.
Is the threat still there? So is the resistance still there?
If the answer is no, then you stop. There's no reason to continue. And there's not a department in this country that has as part of their training
after your resistance stops continue to use the same level of force that you use before. It makes no sense and that's not in our training.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, Lt. Zimmerman said once a person is cuffed you need to get them off of their chest because that's constricting, breathing even more.
He was also - he was also asked about CPR training and being trained as a first responder.
[11:50:00]
He said that that training is conducted and reevaluated every few years. They have to go under certain protocol to make sure that they are still
certified to provide that training.
And he said that you are under the obligation to provide medical intervention when necessary when a person is in distress, even after an
ambulance has been called. How damning was that given what we know transpired the night of George Floyd's death?
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, very damning. I mean, officers are given CPR training, and you have to get recertified every couple of years. Our
officers now in many departments I know and the ones that I lead have learned how to use tourniquets effectively for people suffering from
gunshot wounds, how to apply direct pressure to an open wound on the chest.
I mean, you do get you're not an EMT, but you do get some level of training to be able to assist an individual until the proper medical personnel can
arrive at the scene. So he's absolutely right.
All they have to do is go back and show his history and show that he's had that level of training. And is certified and the same with the other three
officers, all of them should have been CPR certified certainly. And that would have been appropriate to use that particular technique.
Under the circumstances, once it became apparent that he was no longer breathing. If I can just add one because I started to say something earlier
if there's time?
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
RAMSEY: There's just a minor procedural things that to me, it's not so minor, but I don't know their protocols in Minneapolis. But you have four
officers on the scene of that incident. We never would have left them there.
I mean, you separate them, you get them to either internal affairs or I guess they got a room 100 down in city hall or whatever. But when sergeant
networks got there, two of them were still there in a car together.
I mean, you know that to me, is a process or a procedure that the department needs to look at because that's not typically what you would do.
And the other thing and this really goes to Laura being an attorney, I found it curious when they continue to and a defense continues to allow the
prosecution and the witness to refer to it as a crime scene.
At the time it had not been determined that a crime is being committed. Normally, we would simply call that a critical incident scene, not a crime
scene. And if I were a defense attorney, I wouldn't want that word being floated around to the jury too often, because I'm there arguing that it's
not a crime that the officers did nothing wrong. So I was just kind of curious about that. Laura.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, Laura, you want to weigh in?
COATES: I do. Well, you know, the thing about if you were to if there's a conviction and there were to be an appeal, the appellate court would look
to see whether an objection has been weighed in this in this area here. If you don't object, you can oftentimes lose the ability to bring that up
later on.
But here's a lot - other example of why the defense and question why the defense allowed a number of things to go on? Normally, if you have a very
emotional witness, if you've got the witness testifying, they're crying, they're evoking a lot of sentiment and resonance with the jury, you do
everything you can to derail the monologue.
They haven't done that a number of times and allowed a lot of things to linger in the air. Now, they'll have to reflect on what the consequences of
that will be. Because remember, the defense case is in the future.
And they're never required to actually bring one it's always the government's burden to actually prove beyond a reasonable doubt. There are
some lapses and judge you're obviously seeing here.
But I have to know what Charles is talking about, you know, these other officers is due to stand trial in the future. Now of course, their
accessories are calling them accomplice liability. So a lot of their convictions might be contingent on what happens in this particular trial.
But the idea that they're kept together, I want to know, are we going to hear the body cam footage about what they said right after George Floyd was
taken away? How about after they were notified, he died?
Remember, the sergeant Edwards said, when I got on the scene, I told them turn on your body cams if they aren't already on. So is there a lapse in
time for what they actually knew to then? Well, we'll look at here and finally Bianna you know, we're talking about CPR training. We're talking
about all these things. If you right now, if you were told, take your pulse, move your knee.
Think of the minimal efforts required, you'd need not be CPR trained, you don't have to be an EMT, you would put your fingers to your neck on your
rest on your wrist, move your knee.
That's the minimal effort we're talking about here to get to the life saving measures that needed to be taken or as the paramedic said to give
him a second chance of life. They could have precluded this by very minor actions. The question still remains for these jurors.
Why didn't Derek Chauvin do that? It's an antithetical to training. It just simply belies common sense. He still has explaining to do as if yes, the
defense has not been able in any case to answer that question.
[11:55:00]
GOLODRYGA: Yes, as you said, antithetical to training because as we had seen from those witnesses who had not been police officers, that one of
them was an EMT, so trained to attend to somebody who's in distress.
Their instinct was to help them right now that we've heard from veteran police officers is that is, in fact what the protocol is. You have to
wonder how damning that is and what impact that's going to have on the jury quickly before we go in this last moment.
Laura, I wanted to get your sense. Was it weird or not, in your opinion that the defense didn't cross exam the first police officer?
COATES: I think it was odd in the sense that they are trying they didn't address that issue of the officer on the scene. But remember, these defense
attorneys are not worried about the other three. They're worried about the one who is actually standing trial now.
GOLODRYGA: That is right. Laura Coates thank you so much. We really appreciate having you on and of course; we'll have more of the trial of
former police officer Derek Chauvin after a quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
