Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
U.S. and Iran Hold Indirect Talks to Revive Nuclear Deal; Prince Hamzah Pledges Allegiance to Jordanian King; CNN Reports from Myanmar amid Military Crackdown; Netanyahu Picked to Form Israeli Government. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired April 06, 2021 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI HOST (voice-over): Tonight: is this the moment of truth for the Iran nuclear deal? Talks currently underway in Vienna. We'll
get you there live.
Then, "I fear for my country." Those are the words of Israel's president after tasking Benjamin Netanyahu with forming a government. Once again,
we're live in Jerusalem for you.
And concern is growing for the health of Alexei Navalny, who has pledged to continue a hunger strike in a Russian prison. All the details on that are
just ahead.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: It's 2:00 in the afternoon in Vienna, where those talks are going on. It's 3 pm in Amman, Jordan, 4 pm in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky
Anderson. Welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.
The moment of truth: the United States and Iran both say they want to revive the nuclear deal abandoned by president Trump three years ago. Right
now, talks being held in Vienna to do just that. But the two nations will not speak directly.
Five other countries, all part of the original accord, are now meeting with Iranian officials to try to salvage the deal. It won't be easy. Tehran
insists all U.S. sanctions must be lifted in order to move forward, a demand that Washington refuses to commit to.
Let's break it all down with Fred Pleitgen, live for you in Vienna, and in London, our security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, both very well
traveled in Iran, I have to say.
Fred, let's start with you on the ground. You're currently outside the venue, as I understand it.
What can we expect today?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, as you rightly put it, this is shuttle diplomacy in a microcosm.
You have the U.S. and Iran and then you have the other parties to the Iran nuclear deal. But U.S. and Iran not speaking directly to one another.
So they are in two separate venues. And you have mostly European diplomats shuttling back and forth to try to see whether or not they can get these
two sides into some sort of form of agreement.
And essentially, you have the Europeans compartmentalizing all of this. They are talking about possible steps that Iran could take to get back to
full compliance with the nuclear deal. For instance, some of the enriched uranium that they produced way too much and are allowed to have under the
deal. Also way too high a grade than they are allowed under the nuclear deal.
So the Europe seeing what Iran can do there and also speaking to the U.S. about what sanctions relief could hook like. The Iranians are insisting
there needs to be complete sanctions relief on the part of the U.S. for the Iranians to move.
The U.S. is saying there will be no unilateral moves on its part. So both sides still in that rut. But as you correctly pointed out, they both say
they want to salvage the deal. They want the U.S. back inside. They want Iran back in full compliance. So they clearly have a goal. But they also
very much are racing against time.
ANDERSON: Nick, you described today's meeting in a CNN op-ed as a, quote, "moment of truth." What did you mean by that?
What can we expect next?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Time for this is running out. There are presidential elections coming later this year and
literally months in Iran where hardliners are expected to probably make some gains.
So the moderates in Iran who want success, who want that broader reach to the outside world to go back to where it was in 2015 or so, they have to
make this work; while at the same time, not compromising themselves in the face of hardliners ahead of these elections.
At the same time, Biden administration aware of the clock ticking on them there. And I think we're dealing here with two sides with very complex
positions but who essentially do seem to want the same thing.
It's pretty clear the Biden administration staffed its entire national security apparatus of people who fully know the Iran deal. And on Tehran's
side, it's people who have been involved in the original deal, who are possibly leading these talks now as well.
[08:05:00]
WALSH: So they know where they need to go but there are many complexities. All sanctions, there are lots of different sanctions levied against Iran.
Those that were part of the nuclear deal, then there are separate ones that have been put on because of the allegations of the sponsoring of terrorism.
So a lot of complexities there in terms of the relief Iran could get. And the Biden administration will want to see something from Iran quickly. And
the Iranians have been very busy in the past months, stacking up the number of things that could possibly be on the table here as chips for them to
reverse, enriching uranium, yes; converting to Iranian metal, which you need for a weapon, much likely at some point.
And then all the other slight, tiny tweaks that brought themselves out of the terms of the deal they have done to get themselves to the table here,
there's a lot they can do. But I think fundamentally this is how negotiations work. They are both at the table. They both really want to be
in the same place at the end.
And it's simply a case of the Europeans trying to bridge the gap and bring the Iranians and the Americans into the same room.
ANDERSON: Fred, what have the Iranians have been saying?
PLEITGEN: The Iranians have been saying they believe these negotiations could go quickly. From the very beginning, they have said that the onus is
on the Americans. Tehran said it was the U.S. that left the Iran nuclear deal and if they want to get back in, it has to comply by all the
constraints of the nuclear deal.
That means getting rid of all of the sanctions Nick was talking about, not just the ones because of the nuclear deal itself or because of the nuclear
program but also the ones put in place by the Trump administration. Listen to the spokesperson for Iran's foreign ministry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAEED KHATIBZADEH, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SPOKESPERSON (through translator): Whether the joint commissions in general produces a result or
not depends on the Europeans and the P4+1 reminding the U.S. of its obligations and the Americans acting on their commitments. We have only one
step, not step by step, which includes the lifting of all U.S. sanctions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So the Iranians are saying the U.S. needs to lift all those sanctions but, of course, all that is easier said than done. All those
complexities that Nick was talking about, there were members of the Trump administration who very much acknowledged that some of those sanctions were
put in place to make it more difficult for a later administration, now the Biden administration, to try to get back into the nuclear agreement.
So that is one of the things that certainly complicates all this. But as we have been saying, both sides say they want this deal to survive and want
the U.S. back in. And the Iranians certainly say they would be willing to get back into compliance as well. So it seems the goal is at hand.
Who is going to move first?
ANDERSON: Let's be quite clear. Joe Biden's team know they do not have bipartisan support in Congress for the lifting of all of these sanctions.
The question is just how much political capital are they prepared to spend when, domestically, Joe Biden has an awful lot of other work that needs
support from Congress.
I spoke to the Saudi foreign minister. Have a listen to what he told me about these talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAISAL BIN FARHAN AL SAUD, SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER: Let me be clear, The countries that are most at risk from a nuclear armed Iran are the countries
in the region, including, of course, the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the GCC states.
So it's entirely logical that we should be part of the discussion and part of the dialogue, and we hear from our European and American partners that
they understand that the concerns of the countries of the region must be addressed and must, we must have a role in those discussions and in those
negotiations.
We are in a dialogue now with our international partners, as to how, the power role, and how concerns in those discussions can be addressed. We
think we should be at the table. As I said, we are the countries most at threat. And therefore, it is only right that we be at the table.
And, of course, Iran has repeatedly said that it's interested in having a dialogue with its neighbors about regional security. And what is not an
issue of regional security if not the nuclear issue.
So if Iran wants to have a dialogue with us, that is fine, but we think we should have that dialogue as part of the discussions vis-a-vis the JCPOA
and that could help to allay our concerns to a great deal.
If we are at the table, we will see -- we hope that we will see an Iran that comes back into compliance and that agrees to address the concerns
that we have, both about the deficiencies in the previous JCPOA structure, but also, of course, regional stability and ballistic missiles and other
issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The kingdom wants to be at the table and wants to extend the remit of these talks outside of the regional scope, to include malign
behavior around the region, as the kingdom sees it, and indeed ballistic missiles.
[08:10:00]
ANDERSON: Is that realistic at this point?
WALSH: Not initially, no. The House of Saud would have done better trying to make that appeal possibly six months earlier when they were dealing with
a U.S. administration that wanted to listen better. It's clear the Biden administration has little love for Saudi Arabia's recent behavior and wants
to recalibrate that relationship.
But at the same time, Iran has said it is happy to have regional conversations, too. I can't see how that Saudi Arabia would suddenly be at
the table during this, will help in any way. This is about the nuclear deal being revived and that's how Saudi Arabia say they want anyway.
And more broadly, the broader goal they want of a wider deal with Iran is also what the Biden administration want. And this is the fundamental
problem. There's a clock ticking on that original 2015 deal. Some of its clauses expire in four years. So if you have success in Vienna, you're
probably going to spend six months until you get the deal back in earnest again.
Then you probably have about 3.5 years until you have to rethink, what next?
Possibly with a slightly less pro-American government in Tehran. There's going to certainly be at the table what next for the nuclear deal in the
minds of the Biden administration certainly and then the broader regional issue, too.
That's where the Iranians say they are not interested. They're seasoned negotiators so what they say and what they are willing to contemplate may
be different. It's all about the payoff here.
But you still have to come back to the broader decision made in the minds both in Washington and Tehran some time ago. Washington is happy for Iran
to be richer as long as it's not nuclear. And Iran is happy to possibly give up what people say is its hope for a nuclear weapon to get their
economy back into recalibration with the outside world.
So the calculations have already been made. It's where we go down the line here and the possibility for rogue actors, for anybody who wants to upset
this, to stick a knife in a particular point. It could still be messy.
But I think what Fred is seeing happen around here in Vienna is the beginning of something relatively inevitable. Quite how wide a scope it
will be, outside of the nuclear deal or broader, we'll have to see in the years ahead. That's where it getting trickier.
ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh in London for us and Fred is in Vienna. Thank you both.
To the royal rift in Jordan, in an apparent major change in stance from the former crown prince accused of trying to destabilize his center. The royal
court posted a letter signed by Prince Hamzah bin Hussein, who says he is now ready to, quote, "stand behind his half brother," King Abdullah.
He was effectively placed under house arrest over the weekend. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is watching all this unfold for us in Amman, where she was based
for years.
Just walk us through the latest developments here and their significance.
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After the dramatic developments here over the weekend, on Monday evening, we got a statement from the royal
court, saying that the king had delegated his uncle, the former crown prince, who held that position for more than 30 years, a well respected
personality in this country and beyond, to handle this issue, to deal with this crisis to try to reach a resolution.
And a few hours later, a statement from the royal court, a letter signed by the former crown prince, signed at the house of his uncle and also in the
presence of other members of the royal family, other princes who are close to the prince, in which he pledges allegiance to the king and to the crown
prince and he said that he remains at the disposal of the king and that national interests must remain above all else.
A real change in tone when you compare that to the leaked video and audio that we have had over the weekend, that audio recording, where he sounded
really defiant, saying he's not going to be taking any orders from the military and that he was not going to cease communication. He was going to
escalate matters.
But even after what seems to be this apparent reconciliation or resolution of the crisis, there are still so many questions that remain unanswered.
People here really don't know what to make of all of this.
They have not been given answers. They have been presented with two competing narratives. You have the government, accusing the former crown
prince of trying to destabilize the country, and you've got the former crown prince, saying that these are the kinds of accusation the government
levels against anyone who speaks out in this country.
[08:15:00]
KARADSHEH: I think no one is really going to be getting any answers anytime soon. In the past couple hours the judicial authorities in this
country have issued a gag order, basically banning publishing or posting anything related to this case in the country.
Clearly, the leadership trying to put this behind them, move on and restore that image of a stable kingdom.
ANDERSON: Jomana Karadsheh, thank you.
Up next on CONNECT THE WORLD, insider access to the fallout from a deadly coup. CNN is on the ground in Myanmar and we will be connecting you to our
exclusive coverage up ahead.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: On the inside looking out, CNN is on the ground in Myanmar, getting word out to the world about the fallout from the country's bloody
coup. We are the first independent international news organization allowed inside the country.
We're not picking ourselves up here. This is really a big deal. We also want to tell you that our chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward,
and the team, are under military escort. The same military that's been intensifying its crackdown, killing hundreds of pro democracy protesters,
including children.
Two months after ousting the democratically elected government, this is the situation on the ground. Clarissa Ward spoke with my colleague, Jake
Tapper, about what she has seen. I want you to just to have a listen now to her exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I want to underscore that no independent international journalists have been allowed into this
country in the last two months since that bloody coup took place, as you said, rights group saying more than 550 people killed.
This is a massive protest movement that really came about after the military ousted Myanmar's democratically elected government, the people
coming out to the -- into the streets in the millions. And the more they protested, and the more animated those protests became, the more the
military tried to suppress them.
The military here really does not have the popular support of the people of Myanmar.
So, we felt it was essential, even though it is a difficult situation when you are in a country with the permission of the -- in this case, the
military, the main oppressors in this situation, we felt it was very important to be on the ground to see for ourselves whatever we could, and
to tell the story of the people of Myanmar, Jake. And what has it been like to report their?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And what's it been like to report there? Have you had the freedom to report whatever you want to report?
WARD: So, we have had the freedom to report what we want to report. As you can tell right now, we're going live to you from here in Myanmar.
We are, though, very controlled in terms of how we can move around, who we can talk to.
[08:20:00]
WARD: I'm here in a military compound. We wanted to stay in a hotel. And we were told simply that that was not possible. Every single place we go
to, we go with a huge amount of security. We have minders following our every move. They're constantly filming on their iPhones every conversation
we have.
And those conversations, by the way, are really limited, because we haven't had a huge amount of access to ordinary people from Myanmar.
And I just want to give you a little bit of a sense, if I can get this clip up, of what it's like trying to report here. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: What's this poster here? We see "We support CRPH."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
WARD: With the three-finger salute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. OK.
WARD: That's from people who are against the military. Is that saying that the people in this area are against the military?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe. Not sure, because some demonstrators go around Yangon and shout at -- demonstration.
WARD: Can we maybe talk to some of the people? Can we ask them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not sure, because of your security. I'm not sure, because I am just for interpretation. OK.
WARD: I'm wondering.
There's some people over there. Maybe we could go and talk to them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
So, the security forces told me we shouldn't stay for a long time here for our security.
For our security?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WARD: Gives you a sense of the intense level of security with us, one, two, three, another three over there, six trucks full of soldiers
accompanying our every move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: And I talked there about that three-finger salute, the so-called "Hunger Games" salute.
This gesture has become the symbol really of resistance against the military coup. And even when we were out on the streets, with all that
military -- military people around us, with all those minders around us, people would come up at any available opportunity and flash that salute at
our camera.
They want the world to know what they are going through. And they want more people out there telling their story, Jake.
TAPPER: Clarissa, why would the military let you in?
WARD: Well, the military has its side of the story, too. And up until now, they have been largely tight-lipped about what that is.
Essentially, what they want the world to know is that the protesters have become much more violent, the protesters are using Molotov cocktails,
they're using slingshots, which, again, is no match for the assault rifles that the Myanmar military is using.
But, really, they're trying to cast the protest movement as a violent mob of anarchists that needs to be suppressed. They took us to a number of
factories that had been burned down. They said that the protesters were responsible. The protesters say they were not responsible.
But that's very much the narrative that they're hoping will take shape, the idea that, somehow, it's the protesters who are to blame for all the
violence here.
But when you're looking at the actual makeup of what's happening during these standoffs and these protests that are quickly turning into massacres,
you can see that one side clearly has a huge advantage in terms of its arms, of its level of weaponry and funding. And there's simply no match,
Jake.
TAPPER: And, Clarissa, you sat down with a senior member of the military leadership there in Myanmar. No other journalist has been able to do that.
What did you ask him?
WARD: Well, we had a lot of things to ask him. And it was a pretty up comfortable interview. We wanted to particularly drill down on the number
of innocent civilians who have been killed. More than 550 protesters, pro- democracy protesters, most of them unarmed, among them 44 children, Jake. That's according to the United Nations.
So we really wanted to get some sense on how on earth the military could justify this. We want to him specifically at one point with a very specific
piece of video that shows a young activist being killed in cold blood to give him a sense to explain how on earth such a brutal killing could
possibly be justified. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: This is CCTV footage of a 17-year-old going past a police convoy. You can see the police shoot him on the spot. His autopsy later said that
he suffered brain injury as a result of a cycling accident which I think we can all see that's not a cycling accident. How do you explain this?
MAJOR GENERAL ZAW MIN TUN (through translator): If that kind of thing occurred, we will have an investigation into it. We will investigate if the
video is real or not.
[08:25:00]
ZAW (through translator): There may be some videos which look suspicion but our forces do not have any intention to shoot innocent people. We will
investigate if it's real or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: We also pushed him hard on what the game plan is here. How can this violence possibly end, this awful cycle of violence and when will the
people get to have their voiced heard?
He said that the military's plan has always been to allow for another round of elections sometime in either the next year or possibly up to two years.
But it's really important to underscore here, Jake, that the whole reason that this coup took place in the first place is because there were free and
fair elections back in November.
There were independent election monitors there who did not see any problems in terms of fraud or any significant problems and that election was won in
a landslide by the NLD party, the military's party suffered a humiliating defeat and that's what precipitated this coup in the first place.
So I think people are very unwilling to believe the idea that there will be another round of free and fair elections and that their candidate, their
choice who is right now under arrest in prison, Aung San Suu Kyi, will be allowed to become president if she did indeed win again or frankly no one
believes that she will be allowed to run again because she is facing these trumped-up charges, Jake.
TAPPER: And, Clarissa, tell us about the people who talked to you and then were subsequently arrested.
WARD: You know, Jake, this is always your worst nightmare as a journalist, right?
We were finally able to negotiate access to a public space, not a controversial space. It was a space that the military actually picked.
But minute we got to this market and we were just shooting video of people going about their daily business, once they saw their cameras and they knew
that CNN was in town and they had been writing a lot about it on social media, a lot of people came up to us. They flashed that three-finger
"Hunger Games" salute that I told about.
They talked about wanting justice. They talked about wanting democracy. They talked about wanting freedom. More than that, so many talked about how
frightened they are, Jake. Soldiers coming into their neighborhoods every single night dragging dead bodies away.
And what we found out was that shortly after this trip to the market at least eight people by CNN's count were arrested for the simple crime of
just having spoken to us and said that they were afraid.
We pushed the general really hard on that. He admitted that 11 people in total were arrested. He said that they shouldn't have been arrested to give
him credit and that they would be released and we can now confirm that they have indeed been released, which is a huge relief for us and also we're
grateful to the military for releasing them.
TAPPER: And we should note, I mean, when people talk to you or they flash you the -- the "Hunger Games" salute, three-fingered "Hunger Games" salute
that I'm holding up right now in solidarity with them, I should say. They are -- that's an act of civil disobedience at great risk.
What other acts or forms of civil disobedience have you witnessed?
WARD: Well, this is it, just it. The military is trying to control the country through brute force but what they can't do is make people work, for
example, so there's a huge civil disobedience movement. Most of the country's workers are striking. They are not going to work, whether it's
ministries, banks. You go by the banks here. There's long, long lines outside of every single paining.
That means that the economy is grinding to a halt. There's garbage in the streets. It's very difficult for the military to kind of keep up with this
charade that this is a functioning society now.
As long as people refuse to work, as long as you don't have the support of your own populace, let's be very clear here, we have seen absolutely no
evidence that the military has any real popular support here in Myanmar and as long as that conditions, even if you are shooting at non-protests, even
if you are killing children, it becomes very difficult and challenging to actually run a country, Jake.
TAPPER: Yes. Clarissa Ward in Myanmar for us, thank you so much. Really appreciate your courage.
WARD: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: That's Clarissa Ward on the ground, speaking to my colleague, Jake Tapper.
The British ambassador to the United Nations, Barbara Woodward, says, quote, "The risk is mounting of an all-out conflict or a collapse into
chaos," strong words. I'll get more of her views on Myanmar later this hour. We will be back right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:30:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Israel's president says it's not an easy moral or ethical decision but he has chosen prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu to once again
try to form a new government.
Israelis are getting to know this drill well. President Reuven Rivlin's reluctant decision comes after the fourth inconclusive election in just two
years. Add to that the political deadlock and the fact that Mr. Netanyahu is right now being tried on corruption charges.
His right wing Likud Party came first in the March balloting but it was still short of a governing majority. Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem to unravel
what is ahead.
President Reuven Rivlin doesn't seem particularly optimistic about his decision today, one he said he was obligated to take.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He sounded reluctant and sad and frustrated in a televised speech he gave just a few hours ago. He wrote a series of
tweets in English just about the decision how he came to it. Notably, he did invite Benjamin Netanyahu to receive the mandate.
He said Netanyahu received the most number of endorsements, 52 compared to the next candidate, which would be essentially Yair Lapid, the opposition
leader, who received 48 endorsements. So as a result, Netanyahu will get the mandate to form the first government.
I want to read one of the first tweets.
He wrote, "The results of the consultations that were open to all lead me to believe that no candidate has a realistic chance of forming a government
that will have the confidence of the Knesset.
"In fact, if the law would allow me to do so, I would give the decision back to the Knesset."
If that's not -- that's the opposite of a ringing endorsement, then I don't really -- it just seems so the opposite for somebody to form a government.
He sounded absolutely depressed about handing this to Netanyahu because when you look at the numbers, it's hard to see how it will come out.
And also he did note that Netanyahu was facing a corruption trial right now. As he was giving this speech, the trial is literally ongoing. They are
listening to the first witness right now.
Yesterday Netanyahu was sitting in court, listening to the deputy state prosecutor, list out the three cases against him, with charges of bribery,
fraud and breach of trust.
And Rivlin said in a tweet, "This is not an easy decision on a moral and ethical basis in my mind. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, the
State of Israel is not to be taken for granted and I fear for my country."
He also said that the supreme court has already said that somebody who is currently indicted could still be mandated to form a government so that
decision is out of his hands. But saying "I fear for my country" while giving a mandate to form a government, there doesn't seem to be a lot of
confidence behind this decision.
ANDERSON: What timeline are we looking at, at this point, do you think?
Israelis are not going to want to face a fifth election.
[08:35:00]
ANDERSON: Is that a likelihood, do you think?
GOLD: We may not want to face it but it seems, day by day, increasingly likely that they will be facing a fifth election. How this will work,
Netanyahu will have 28 days plus a 14-day extension period to try to cobble together this government.
What he will likely have to do is he will have to either convince some of his own party defectors to come back to his party. Or he might need to get
a small Islamist party to sit with him, which might be hard for him to do because part of his coalition are some religious and very right wing
groups, who have already said they will not sit with the small Islamist party.
So it seems like an impossible task for him. If he fails to do so, then President Rivlin can go to another candidate, for example, Yair Lapid, who
got 48 endorsements, to ask him to try to form a government. If he fails, Rivlin can go back to the parliament, which is something he said he wants
to do from the beginning. Go back to the parliament and see if they can find a candidate to form a government.
But that has never happened in the history of Israel where if it went back to parliament they were able to find a candidate. And if all of those
things fail, then we will like likely see that dreaded fifth election in just a few months.
ANDERSON: Hadas Gold, in Jerusalem, thank you.
Let's get you up to speed on the other stories on our radar now. And Saudi authorities are restricting religious pilgrimages to control the spread of
the coronavirus. Starting this Ramadan, only Muslims who received a vaccine against COVID-19 or recovered from the virus will be allowed to perform the
pilgrimage. It can take place at any time of the year.
In Sudan, doctors say 50 people have been killed and more than 130 wounded in several days of renewed tribal clashes in West Darfur. There are reports
of heavy weapons and rocket propelled grenades being use in the fight. This is the latest bloodshed since the overthrow of the former Sudanese leader,
Omar al-Bashir in 2019.
The U.S. is pushing for lower detentions between Sudan and Ethiopia. On Monday U.S. secretary of state Tony Blinken spoke with the Sudanese prime
minister Abdalla Hamdok about advancing the peace process. Tensions between Sudan and Ethiopia have flared due to recent clashes over a disputed region
and the filling of a megadam would lower Sudan's water supply.
The bloody coup and a deadly crackdown, what is next for Myanmar?
The British ambassador to the U.N. tells me why she thinks the situation could get even worse. That's next.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Myanmar's military crackdown is not letting up. And pro democracy protesters aren't giving up, either.
[08:40:00]
ANDERSON: We showed you that earlier this hour with CNN's exclusive access to the country, which is under military escort. Myanmar's generals have
been waging a brutal clampdown on demonstrators, leaving more than 550 people dead since February's coup, including children.
The British ambassador to the United Nations, Barbara Woodward, says the situation in Myanmar is becoming more desperate. Let's connect to her now.
Ambassador, thank you for joining us. CNN has been reporting from inside Myanmar with permission of the military and our team on the ground has
found the military further tightening its grip on power. There seems to be no ambition by the military to change course.
How concerned are you about what happens next?
BARBARA WOODWARD, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Good morning, Deborah (sic), yes, we're very concerned indeed. And that's what prompted
further discussions in the Security Council last week, leading to a third Security Council consensus statement last Thursday, calling for an end to
the violence, release of prisoners and those detained, including President Win Myint and Aung San Suu Kyi, and a return to democracy but also the
provision of humanitarian assistance, reflecting the fact that this coup has now been going on now for two months and having a devastating
humanitarian impact.
ANDERSON: Let's just drill down here for a moment. Members of the Security Council last week expressing alarm at the rapidly deteriorating situation
in the country but expressions of alarm aren't going to save lives or stop the violence, are they?
WOODWARD: No, I think the important thing is the Security Council is unanimous in its condemnation of the violence and the U.N. special envoy to
the region, Christine Schraner Burgener, left on Saturday for a visit to the region and is hoping to visit Myanmar.
And as you saw over the weekend, ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, their leaders have agreed they will have a summit, a date to be
determined, which will build on their previous determination to treat this as a regional crisis and to support Myanmar on its return to democracy.
ANDERSON: Without the support, with the greatest of respect, without the support of China and Russia, for anything further than expressions of
condemnation, let's be quite clear here, the Security Council has no teeth, correct?
WOODWARD: I think it's important that China and Russia have both been part of the unanimously agreed Security Council statements. All three statements
and individual organizations and countries like my own, the U.K., are taking additional measures.
So last week in the U.K., for example, we announced further sanctions on a military conglomerate trying to get to the heart of the economic support
for the Tatmadaw, the military in Myanmar.
And we also announced further funds for the U.N. independent investigative mechanism to make sure that, when the reckoning comes, there's data that
will allow us to bring to justice people who have violated international law and international humanitarian law. The killing of unarmed civilians
would be an example of that.
ANDERSON: And those moves by the U.K. and other moves by Australia and the E.U., imposing sanctions on the ruling military, and the army's vast
network of businesses, applauded by many people around the world.
But again, let me drill down here. The U.N. special envoy, with a desperate plea to the Security Council, of which you are a member, last week, she
said, and I quote, "The council must consider potentially significant action that can reverse the course of events in Myanmar," which she
described and worries could turn into a bloodbath.
That action, Ambassador, is not forthcoming from the Security Council.
Why not?
WOODWARD: Let's be clear. We are all concerned on the Security Council about the direction events are taking, the participation of the ethnic
armed organizations and the conflict, the potential arming of civilians, who heretofore have been unarmed and defenseless against the military. And
the potential, as many people say, for civil war spilling over into the region.
The council works by consensus. We have achieved consensus three times since the coup. We want to continue to speak with one voice. I think that's
very important. But we are considering how we should respond as the situation develops and what the next steps should be.
ANDERSON: Consensus at this point, though, is not going to save lives.
[08:45:00]
ANDERSON: More than 40 children, as we understand it, have lost their lives in this violence. And it continues. I do just want to give you a
chance to express what you would like to see happen next.
WOODWARD: What we'd like to see happen is an end to the violence, an end to the coup, the release of those who have been arbitrarily detained,
including president Win Myint and Aung San Suu Kyi, and respect for the election results and access for international NGOs and civil society
organizations to provide humanitarian assistance.
A step toward that I think will be a visit by the special envoy and we hope that the ASEAN regional neighbors will be able to engage the military and
the democratically elected lawmakers in Myanmar on a pathway back to peace and respect for the democratic solution.
And the Security Council, I hope, will be able to provide support and consensus for that way forward.
ANDERSON: Ambassador, we will continue to press on where the Security Council goes next and not least where the permanent members of the Security
Council stand on this. It is so important to people around the world, not least those in Myanmar, who continue to protest for democracy and who
continue to be assaulted by the military.
While I've got you -- and thank you for your words today -- while I've got you, I do want to press you on another issue. That is Tigray. A CNN
investigation has found that men wearing Ethiopian army uniforms executed unarmed men in the Tigray region of northern Ethiopia.
It's the latest in a string of reports of ongoing human rights violations taking place in Tigray, including civilian killings and sexual violence,
rape as a weapon of war.
What action should the U.N. and the international community be taking now to help end the war in Tigray?
WOODWARD: I should say I have seen that footage. It's deeply disturbing. I welcome the fact that there's a promise of investigation. But that won't
bring back the dead who have been killed.
So I think it was a very important piece of footage that we saw there, which, if corroborated, would be an absolute breach of international law
and international humanitarian law. And we saw the G7 foreign minister's statement over the weekend, condemning the killings, calling for restraint,
calling for investigations and condemning, too, the gender-based violence and the displacement.
Again, it's welcome that the Ethiopian human rights commission and the U.N. Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees are going to have a joint
investigation. On that, the Security Council has met about four times since November, when the situation began to deteriorate. And we are continuing to
monitor it closely.
And again, we want to see an end to the conflict. There's no chance that a military solution will work here. We're deeply concerned by the escalating
violence and the accelerating humanitarian crisis.
We have had some welcome progress in getting U.N. humanitarian aid into the region, where food insecurity is growing, especially in central and eastern
Tigray.
But it's important that we come forward now with the prime minister's Abiy's plan to withdraw troops from Tigray and the Intergovernmental
Authority on Development, IGAD, as well as the U.N., the A.U., will all have a role to play in trying to stabilize and bring peace back to the
region and deal with these violations of international humanitarian law --
(CROSSTALK)
WOODWARD: -- these killings.
ANDERSON: Barbara, Ambassador Barbara Woodward, your time spent with us is hugely valuable. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Do come back.
We're taking a short break. Thank you.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Why chanda (ph) a little bit of news happening this hour, as we've been on air, Etihad, Abu Dhabi's flat carrying airline has completed
its first flight between its home base and Ben Gurion airport In Tel Aviv and Israel. This is according to a government release.
The UAE's ambassador to Israel and the Israeli elemision (ph) to UAE were on board. And we have heard that Israeli will be a late green list of
countries from now on, which means that you can travel from the UAE to Israel without having to quarantine.
Two coming together has further put two countries who see Iran as a direct threat into closer lockstep. So that connects to our top story this hour.
Talks underway in Vienna to get the United States back in the Iran nuclear deal and Iran back into compliance.
Iran's main demand, sanctions relief in return for reducing uranium enrichment to acceptable levels. The U.S. says no concessions before
compliance. Nic Robertson with how we got to this point and what could happen next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): 2015, the Iran nuclear deal, the JCPOA is signed, lengthening Iran's breakout
timeline to making a nuclear bomb to a year.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States will withdraw.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): 2018, president Trump unilaterally pulls out, ratchets up rhetoric and sanctions. Iran responds, incrementally breaking
the terms of the deal.
February 19th, 2021, President Joe Biden's administration reverses Trump's JCPOA decision.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He said we're prepared to re-engage in negotiations with the P5+1.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Iran's time to a possible bomb, according to secretary of state Antony Blinken, now only three to four months. The
difficulty for Biden, how to rejoin the JCPOA.
MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: All the sanctions have to be removed. The United States must gain re-entry to the JCPOA. It's not
automatic. It's not a revolving door.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Since Trump pulled out, Iran began flouting the deal, shortening the potential time to make a bomb, producing more than 13
times the agreed 300-kilogram limit of low enriched uranium, using illegal centrifuges to enrich uranium to a level higher than allowed by the 2015
deal.
And lots more, even refusing the world's nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA's inspectors access to some sites.
Its director flies to Tehran.
RAFAEL MARIANO GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, IAEA: We've got a reasonable result after what was a very, very intensive concentration, negotiation.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Iran dodges censure but U.S. entry to the JCPOA is still blocked.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We said we would attend. Iran so far said no. I think the ball is in their court to see if they're serious
about re-engaging or not.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Almost a month later, a small breakthrough; a virtual JCPOA meet, minus the U.S. The step brings face-to-face talks in
Vienna, April 6th, with U.S. representatives in the city but not at the talks table.
Iran's position still unchanged, adding, "No Iran-U.S. meeting. Unnecessary."
Even so, U.S. special envoy for Iran, Robert Malley, will be in Vienna.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What is happening in the coming days is really focused on indirect talks happening through the Europeans.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): No breakthrough expected.
[08:55:00]
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Iran now closer to having a bomb and holding out for U.S. concessions -- Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Joining us now is Mohammad Marandi, who is a political analyst and professor at the University of Tehran, well versed in the Iranian
nuclear deal.
It's good to have you, sir. Iran say it is will curb its nuclear activity only if all U.S. sanctions are lifted immediately. That's not going to
happen. Whether or not Joe Biden wants to do that, he's unlikely to get congressional support for any action like that. So it's not going to
happen.
Is there potential for a softening in that demand from Tehran?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI, UNIVERSITY OF TEHRAN: No, absolutely not. The Iranians have signed a deal, the JCPOA. And the United States has obligations and
the Iranians have obligations. If the United States does not want to carry out its obligations, then it can't expect Iran to carry out its
obligations.
It's not a one-sided deal. So you can't expect Iran to --
(CROSSTALK)
MARANDI: -- to do what it's supposed to do and then have the Americans not do what they are supposed to do.
ANDERSON: But it is a negotiation. It may not be a one-sided deal but we're back at the negotiation table.
So I ask you again, can you imagine a softening of the demands by Tehran at this point?
MARANDI: No, because this is not a negotiation. The nuclear deal is in place. Iran will not accept any changes. Any changes to the deal will be
appeasement. They are not going to accept the United States.
There have been long talks in order to get to the JCPOA. Many people in Iran think Iran gave too much. But Iran accepted the deal. Iran abided by
the deal and under Obama, the U.S. violated the deal. It never cemented it in full and of course Trump left the deal and bullied other countries into
imposing sanctions.
ANDERSON: Well, critics will say that when that deal was negotiated, that this was a different Gulf region, not least the narrative of the Saudis.
The kingdom wants to be at the table for any new deal, as it were or even this deal in its renegotiation, were there to be one.
I know you've said that this isn't a negotiation but in many people's minds, it is at this point. The Saudis want to see a deal on the curb on
Iran's behavior, which is very different from that which -- back in 2015, and its ballistic missile program.
Is that realistic?
MARANDI: Well, first of all, if anyone in Europe or the United States thinks that they can change the deal, they are badly mistaken. And this is
a very dangerous course to take. But Saudi Arabia is not relevant to the deal. It's not a rivalty (sic) run. The Saudis have been carrying out
genocide in Yemen for six years now.
But what's going on in Yemen is unprecedented in contemporary human history. They imposed starvation on the population. But despite all that,
the Saudis have lost the war against this nation. And therefore, the Saudis, which cannot even impose their will upon --
(CROSSTALK)
MARANDI: -- they are not in a position to dictate terms to Iran or anyone else.
ANDERSON: These talks have just started. We'll have you back. Thank you very much for joining us.
I have to take a very quick break at this point. We'll be back with "FIRST MOVE" after this. CONNECT THE WORLD an hour from now.
[09:00:00]
END
