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Connect the World
A Country Gasping For Breath; India's Neighbors Feel Impact of Disaster Next Door; Former MP: India's COVID Situation is Like Chernobyl; India Now Has Third-Highest Death Toll After U.S., Brazil; How Did The Country Get Here; Medical Supplies From France Arrive in India. Aired 11a- 12p ET
Aired May 03, 2021 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If ever there was a symbol of political failure and the overwhelming of public health due to a lack of application by government
this is it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For these people who've already been turned away from so many hospitals this is their last transit survival.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying since morning; we're not getting the Oxygen anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going through pretty much the worst possible phase of the pandemic here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God! Trust me this has been the toughest thing we have to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so angry because of the organization.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is our responsibility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The intensity of the second wave is something that we never imagined.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, what was once unimaginable is now India's grim reality. It's 8:30 in New Delhi, I'm Becky
Anderson. Hello, and welcome to what is a special edition of "Connect the World".
Our focus this hour is India, because right now it is a country quite literally gasping for breath, thousands are suffocating to death and the
very real danger of that outbreak spreading across the world, a very present threat, the government in some ways, missing in action. But we know
on this World Press Freedom Day that we must demand accountability.
Well, we'll break this down for you this hour with the very best team available live reporting from the Indian Capital and across the world.
Here's what we know. India is experiencing the world's worst COVID 19 outbreak, number of people dying and getting infected breaking records for
weeks now.
Essential medical supplies running low, if available at all. The world's cutting India off, vaccine rates there just 2 percent. Let's start with Sam
Kiley, who is in Delhi for us tonight. And Sam just describes the enormity of what you are witnessing?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, I join you from the outskirts on dusty back streets of the outskirts of Delhi. And
there are patient beds here but no patients. This is an improvised oxygen clinic set up by an NGO that had been going to incredible lengths to try to
source Oxygen very frequently driving 500 miles they're hoping to get some deliveries from Mumbai, that's 1200 miles they've got trucks out waiting.
They're hoping to send some out now. But this has been one of the better locations to be if you are chronically ill with COVID perhaps in the whole
of the city because they were managing to get some oxygen the same very frequently cannot be said of the most modern hospitals Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY (voice over): Tears for a much loved colleague - killed by COVID-19 in the same hospital where he'd spent a year treating other victims of the
Coronavirus grief and the inevitable silent question. Who's next?
He died here in this Intensive Care Unit because the Batra Hospital where he worked ran out of the most basic necessity Oxygen. He was not alone. The
Medical Director of the hospital SCL Gupta gave the mid afternoon casualty figures in this war against the virus.
DR. SCL GUPTA, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, BATRA HOSPITAL: Each patient died today, they, died just now. And five patients they are in under resuscitation may
or may not survive just because in the Capital City of Delhi and because of wonder for Oxygen, which is the lifeline.
KILEY (voice over): He knew the chances of reviving the five were slim.
KILEY (on camera): When you heard this morning that you had just a few hours of oxygen and then eight patients died what does that do to you to
the soul of a doctor?
DR. GUPTA: I cannot explain to you my feeling. We are dying inside. We have the savior's - and we cannot express our feelings. I cannot express my
feelings because how I'm feeling inside.
KILEY (on camera): Is it destroying you?
DR. GUPTA: Yes.
[11:05:00]
KILEY (on camera): How long have you been a doctor?
DR. GUPTA: What sir?
KILEY (on camera): How long have you been a doctor?
DR. GUPTA: Since 45 years.
KILEY (on camera): It must be so destroying? I can't imagine what it must be like for you. I'm sorry.
DR. GUPTA: I'm sorry, sir.
KILEY (voice over): Over the next hour, four of the five resuscitation patients died in a space of about two hours when the oxygen ran out 12
people died in this hospital, which in every other respect is a first world facility. They simply asphyxiated.
The hospital copes by advising patients to source their own supplies of oxygen to cover its erratic supplies. Local and international efforts to
get enough of the gas into India's Capital are still failing.
India's central and national governments have been unable to explain the oxygen shortages and as the numbers of people infected with COVID 19 sore
in India, along with the daily death toll. The Batra hospital like many others will admit no more patients. There's no point.
SHINU VARGHESE, HEAD OF NURSING, BATRA HOSPITAL: We will not take more admissions because we don't want people to die in front of us. So they can
go to other hospitals where the Oxygen is available.
KILEY (voice over): Dr. Keisha Chola (ph), runs a Hindu temple charity, he pulled through COVID before the oxygen started to run out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From housekeeping even the nursing staff, the supervisors, all are working very hard.
KILEY (voice over): Fair enough but the Indian government's failure to ensure basic supplies to hospitals in the face of a long term pandemic is
simply not going to wash.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Now Becky, the last patient with being treated here is now leaving because her last date of Oxygen has run out in the cylinder that she's got.
We understand that she's being - is being taken to a hospital, so they must have some oxygen there. It's very sporadic, completely unpredictable.
They do hope that they'll get some more oxygen at this location. And when they do that, they'll send out a message and this whole area will be filled
with gasping patients. And in that context, this is the response of no less than a Minister of Health for the Delhi government.
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DR. HARSH VARDHAN, INDIAN HEALTH MINISTER: The Indian government has provided data for appropriate oxygen production according to demand. And
according to the production states have been allocated their quotas, Delhi has been allotted more oxygen than what they probably asked for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Now Becky, that clearly flies in the face of the reality that we're in counting on the ground - encountering on the ground, there simply isn't
enough oxygen, not in New Delhi, not in the wider Delhi areas and not in a number of states across this very populous nation, Becky?
ANDERSON: Sam, we have seen images of a train carting some 100 tons of oxygen pulling in near New Delhi. But alas, as you are reporting, it seems
that even that is a drop in the proverbial ocean, and as your report suggests authorities failing to be able to explain what is going on a key
point this hour on this special edition of "Connect the World" is accountability.
We've just heard from the Health Minister there. But what else has the government had to say about this crisis?
KILEY: Well, it's maybe galvanized Becky amazingly enough by a ruling from none other than the Supreme Court earlier on today, which ordered the
government by midnight tonight to sort stuff out to sort out the oxygen issue. It also threatened prosecution against any members of the government
that tried to censor reporting on it.
And indeed, any government or officials that tried to stop the actions or the spontaneous actions of citizens or NGOs to try to plug the gaps that
are being left by central and I have to say state governments in responding to this crisis. So there's from the judiciary there is now effectively a
bag has been put into the - under the government's rare end frankly and they got to get moving either off or face the full power of the law here in
India.
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley is on the ground for you. Thank you, Sam. As bad as things are, they are, I'm afraid, likely far worse than we know. The World
Health Organization's Chief Scientists recently told me that India's actual infection numbers are much, much higher than what is being officially
reported.
[11:10:00]
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DR. SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN, CHIEF SCINETIST, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: We know from the zero surveys done in India. There have been at least three
national zero surveys done that the actual number of people who have had the infection as measured by antibodies is at least 20 to 30 times higher
than what had been reported.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And that is important not just in India, but right over its borders and beyond. Take Nepal for example, its cases are rising about as
fast now, as India's were two weeks ago. We asked Kristie Lu Stout to take a closer look for us.
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KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka prayed for divine help to stop a deadly wave of the Coronavirus that
is sweeping across India.
KOLUPITIYE MAHINDA SANGARAKITHA THERO, CHIEF PRELATE, KELENIYA BUDDIST TEMPLE: Buddhist monks and Buddhist people in this country want to share
the - our sympathy with the people of India.
STOUT (voice over): India is grappling with the world's worst COVID 19 outbreak with record numbers of infections and deaths and the crisis has
spilled across the border into Nepal, where the Capital is now under a two week lockdown. Officials say the rate of infections there has increased
beyond the control of the health systems in several districts, most of which are near the border of India. Before the restrictions went in effect
people crowded bus stations to get out of the city.
PAVITRA PARIYAR, PASSENGER: There is fear of Coronavirus. We may die of Coronavirus if we stay here. So we are going back to our villages.
STOUT (voice over): In Sri Lanka, more than 100 areas across the country are under lockdown because of a jump of infections in April. Schools are
closed and employers are being asked to limit the number of people reporting to work.
The Philippines is extending its lockdown in many cities until mid May. Last week, the country's surpassed 1 million confirmed cases stretching
hospital resources, especially in the country's capital with the outbreak is at its worst beds.
DR. ROSE MARIE ROSETE-LIQUETE, HOSPITAL DIRECTOR: We don't have enough beds there. They're all full already.
STOUT (voice over): Thailand is converting a check in terminal and its main airport into a vaccination center.
PHASIN SRISAYAM, THAI AIRWAYS STAFF: The airport has a lot of space, and the team has managed good social distancing.
STOUT (voice over): Bangkok recently closed public parks, gyms and daycare centers until May the 9th and introduced fines of up to $640 for not
wearing the mask in public. Pakistan is cutting 80 percent of incoming international flights in the next few weeks to try to curb the number of
cases there.
The military also stepping in to patrol the streets in cities like Lahore to enforce mask wearing and to make sure shops closed at 6 pm. Countries
across the region taking measures to contain the spread of the virus but it may not be enough for some places.
Singapore announced it is tightening its entry restrictions, closing its borders to visitors from Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Kristie
Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A news just in, Nepal will ban all international flights from midnight on May the 6th until May the 14th. Nepal's Prime Minister has just
said in a televised address to the nation. Domestic flights there are also suspended from midnight from Monday; every person coming via land or rescue
flight will be tested for COVID.
Well, we have seen the devastation that COVID has brought to India. After the break, we'll look at the factors that have conspired to get the country
to this point, including politics. Stay tuned for that and from the politics to the people.
India rushes to get much needed oxygen to hospitals as Sam was reporting the State of Uttar Pradesh has been hit particularly hard. Our Chief
International Correspondent Clarissa Ward has some of the heartbreaking stories from the region.
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[11:15:00]
ANDERSON: Welcome back to what is it special edition of "Connect the World" with me, Becky Anderson. The focus this hour is India. And I want to talk
accountability. Where's the government? Where's Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while the results are in from India's election last month and the
governing party lost big in three of the five local state elections.
West Bengal seen here as among the states where Prime Minister Narendra Modi's party, lost or packed rallies were just one of the political
missteps, critics say led to the out of control spread of COVID-19 in the country. However, there is plenty of blame to go around. Take a look.
Crowds of unmasked people and an election campaign in full swing. This was India just weeks ago. Millions of Hindu pilgrims shoulder to shoulder as
they gathered across the nation and on the banks of the Ganges for the Kumbh Mela festival. Proof that the country had well and truly let its
guard down.
Experts would later point to these super spreader events as a catalyst for India's now record breaking Coronavirus infections. Every day a new grim
milestone is reached as images of mass COVID-19 cremations in New Delhi, spread around the world and yet, unlike other developing nations at the
back of the queue for life saving immunizations India is the world's largest manufacturer of vaccines.
And by April became the fastest country in the world to administer over 100 million jabs, a feat achieved in just 85 days. So what happened with a
population of over 1.3 billion? India shocked the world at the start of this pandemic when it was recording fewer than 10,000 COVID-19 infections a
day.
Thanks in part two is strictly enforced nationwide lockdown and narrative to call that the nation was an outlier spared from the cruelest fate of the
virus complacency set in and some vaccine doses found themselves in bins rather than in arms or exported elsewhere. Masks came off social distancing
rules were flouted and people gathered in the tens of thousands.
Now as highly transmissible variants spread like wildfire and a critical shortage of hospital beds and oxygen takes hold. Grave diggers work around
the clock to bury the dead. Foreign aid is pouring in but when this aggressive second wave will be contained, remains an open question.
Well, my next guest compares the situation in India to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Former Indian Parliament member Milind Deora joins us
from Mumbai. Sir, why do you draw that comparison?
MILIND DEORA, FORMER INDIAN MP: Well, because if you look at the scenario today, we are left with a shortage of vaccines and as your report rightly
pointed out, an abundance of hubris and complacency. And I believe that that hubris and complacency is India's unfortunately, collective complete -
which has led to this crisis.
I certainly do believe that the owners and the primary responsibility falls on the Government of India for failing to see the early warning signs for
derailing, if you will, our country's vaccine rollout. I also think every state government in a sense, perhaps ignored the early warning signs and as
a result of that collective complacency certain.
[11:20:00]
And again, as your report rightly pointed out, we unfortunately the political class and cutting across parties became India's greatest super
spreaders through the rallies, election rallies in the last few months in these five election going states. And that, in a sense, set the mood for
the people of India that COVID is behind us.
And we can get complacent about getting vaccinated about stockpiling enough adequate vaccines for the people of India. And people started going out in
cities to restaurants letting their guard down, literally taking their mask off attending political rallies with little or no social distancing.
And so, it's unfortunately, that's why I drew a sort of similarity to what happened in Chernobyl, because it's the first wave for any part of the
world and for any government and people were caught unaware, people were caught off guard.
This was the first pandemic essentially, but a second wave and third wave and especially when you saw numbers rising, certainly the Government of
India state governments, local governments should have been more proactive in putting the brakes on economic activity and trying to strike a balance
between allowing India's economic recovery to take place and at the same time ensuring that COVID friendly protocols like masks usage, social
distancing are followed.
ANDERSON: I want all our viewers and you to just have a listen to what a BJP Spokesman said speaking to CNN last Thursday, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARENDRA TANEJA, BJP SPOKESMAN: If you want to tell honestly. Yes, of course, we are in power. We are the government in India. So of course
responsibilities, first and foremost, ours, good or bad, whatever it is, and it is our responsibility and we are trying our very level best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We are trying our very level best he says. The government insisting its efforts is working on all fronts; it will not accept
criticism that it has failed on any account to which you say what?
DEORA: To which I said that the primary responsibility certainly falls with the government of the day and the government of day is a BJP ruled
government in the center, in several states in India, and there are other state governments which are run by non-BJP people.
But, you know, to be very candid with you, I think the people of India now have just gone through a traumatizing election cycle. Regardless of what
the electoral outcome was for the BJP or the opposition parties, I think people now are looking for solutions.
And eventually, there will be a time to hold people to account make people accountable. But right now, the ground zero of the second wave in India has
shifted from Mumbai, where I am to New Delhi, the National Capital and people are gasping for oxygen, although the government has increased and
augmented India's oxygen capacity significantly.
And I give full credit actually to the private sector for that, because almost over half of India's daily medical grade oxygen supply is now being
manufactured by the private sector, which is not in the business of oxygen supply. In fact, you have steel manufacturers oil refiners, who have
pivoted and become suppliers of medical grade oxygen.
So, I'm certain that the crisis will come under control in a few weeks time, but we will have to hold people to account and my real message
actually my real fear is given how virulent and how infectious this variant is, is, you know, my message through CNN, to a global audience and to the
global community at large is not to let your guard down.
Because when I look at what's happening in the United States, and I have friends there and I hear CDC's recommendations where if you've been fully
vaccinated, you can meet people potentially take remove your masks, I would urge people to be very, very cautious. I'm no medical expert.
But I do know that before this virus down mutates and becomes something non infectious and very harmless in the way that the Spanish Flu did 100 years
ago, there will be new dangerous variants which will spread and emanate from different parts of the world.
So it's extremely important for the world at large to learn from India's mistake and India's complacency and not let their guard down.
ANDERSON: Meantime, you tweeted a few days ago saying you spoke to U.S. Senator Chris Van Hollen, these Senate in the State of Maryland, where
Novavax is manufactured knowing you called him one of India's best friends in the U.S. Senate. You said his contributions will help accelerate India's
vaccine rollout and help is on the way.
[11:25:00]
Enough and quickly enough, sir to your mind?
DEORA: Well, my intervention with Senator Van Hollen was at a personal level and as you mentioned, he represents the State of Maryland were a very
promising vaccine candidate in the United States, Novavax is based out of.
But it is heartening to learn that at a government to government level, the Indian government and the United States government are collaborating
because this is something not many people knew about. I certainly didn't know about it.
And the fact that the United States, I wouldn't say dominate, but it almost monopolizes the production of essential raw materials, almost 30 raw
materials, which are needed to manufacture vaccines. And that was a difficult point for India wherein we weren't able to perhaps, upgrade our
vaccine capabilities and manufacture vaccines, not just for Indians, but for the world.
And that is something which seems to have been sorted out. President Biden himself put out a tweet, along with the National Security Adviser to the
President Jake Sullivan saying that they have had discussions with the Indian counterparts and those raw materials will be supplied.
So that's heartening news. And I hope that when that does happen, we will be able to produce enough vaccines for the Indian population and fulfill
our global commitments of exporting to needy countries.
ANDERSON: It's going to take some time with a population of 1.3 billion and just 2 percent vaccinated at this point. Thank you for joining us this
hour. As we take a deep dive on what is this COVID implosion in India. Up next firsthand, reporting from our Chief International Correspondent
Clarissa Ward, what she saw was so distressing?
We can't show you the images yet, but she will be here to deliver them with their full context and significance up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. We are talking through all dimensions of the COVID- 19 pandemic in Indian. Scientific political, the human dimensions the catastrophe they're worse than anywhere else in the world and spreading. I
want to look at the intersection now of politics and its collision with suffering.
[11:30:00]
Two India's famous train lines which have been lifelines in connecting the country for almost 200 years. Well, we are taking on a new meaning now as
trains deliver more than 100 tons of oxygen near New Delhi to be rushed to hospitals in need.
Thousands are dying due to a lack of oxygen in India alone. Countries like the UK, for example, have pledged oxygen concentrators and ventilators.
We've been reporting India now has the third highest death toll from COVID- 19 after the U.S. and Brazil and with a population of more than 1.3 billion, getting medical help to its vast rural areas is simply becoming a
life or death challenge. One villager explained the enormous difficulties that people are facing.
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GANGADHAR PANDA, INDIAN VILLAGE RESIDENT: It is quite impossible for real people there is no facility of Oxygen in our rural area, private health
centers, we have to go to urban areas. And in urban areas those people do not get Oxygen, how can we get?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Clarissa Ward has been on the frontlines of this story for us. She's been out in Uttar Pradesh. She is now back in New Delhi and
joining us now. While you were on the ground, Clarissa what did you witness?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Becky, we traveled to Uttar Pradesh, as you mentioned, this is the state next door.
It's an enormous state, the most populous in India with roughly 200 million people living there.
It's also been one of the hardest hit by this vicious second wave of COVID- 19. We actually went inside a government hospital and we saw honestly, just harrowing images of people suffering and a real probation and real
shortcomings in the health care system.
We're going to show you a clip now I want to warn our viewers that some of this is a bit distressing, but the families that we talked to, they want
the world to see their story. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD (voice over): In the next room, more than 20 patients are packed in tightly. This is what now passes for the intensive care unit. Family
members have taken on the role of primary carers where medical staffs are simply unavailable. This man complains no one will change his wife soiled
bedding.
Suddenly, there is an emotion. Will someone please call the doctor this man shouts? His mother 55-year-old - appears to be slipping away. Sons work
furiously to revive her. A doctor comes in and tells them to stop crowding her but the family is inconsolable.
We've been here for six days and only today we got the ventilator for my mother he tells us. The Oxygen is out. We had to bring an Oxygen cylinder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: So you mentioned some of the shortages, Becky that these hospitals are facing. We've talked a lot about Oxygen. We've talked about drugs.
We've talked about beds, which we certainly saw that there were people all over the floor in that hospital, but one of the most serious shortages
they're facing is medical staffs. So many doctors are taken sick with the Coronavirus.
India's government has announced today that it will start drawing in medical students in their final year to try to help and fight this vicious
and heartbreaking tragedy. But a lot of people here are worried honestly, Becky that it's too little too late.
ANDERSON: Just walk us through what the status of vaccines is, at this point across the country Clarissa?
WARD: So it was interesting while we were at that hospital complex in Uttar Pradesh and mirrored city, we walked across the complex and there was this
beautiful sort of sterile sort of hospital where they were delivering these vaccines because Prime Minister Modi had promised anyone over the age of 18
can get vaccines.
They were vaccinating 600 people on the day that we visited. It appeared to be orderly lines and people going about getting vaccinated. Obviously this
is a huge component in terms of trying to target this second wave. However, sadly, what we saw in - city in Uttar Pradesh at this vaccination center is
not the same story that we're seeing playing out across the country.
Several states have now come forward and said hold on a second. We can't actually deliver on this promise of being able to vaccinate everyone over
the age of 18.
[11:35:00]
WARD: Because we are so short on supplies and India has faced some criticism. It's a major producer of the sort of components that go into
these vaccines, but because it was so confident that it had defeated the Coronavirus, it was actually exporting millions of doses of these vaccines
instead of focusing on inoculating its own population. And so once again, India finds itself in the position essentially Becky of playing catch up.
ANDERSON: Clarissa Ward is on the story. Clarissa, thank you. And you can see Clarissa's full report from Uttar Pradesh later right here on CNN. It
will air first thing again in Abu Dhabi at 4 am on Anderson Cooper 360. That's 1 am in London, and I'll get you that report as well on "Connect the
World" tomorrow.
We'll up next, India's ruling party says it is doing its very best but anger as well as grief is growing on the streets over what is this COVID
catastrophe, who's responsible? We'll take a look at India's politics during the pandemic with CNN's Fareed Zakaria, just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching a special edition of "Connect the World" Focus India. Now at the start of the program, I showed you some of
the dimensions of the pandemic that we were going to look at.
Now I want to look at the cruel contrast that it's been drawing out initial success leading to hubris and now this ensuring implosion. In the last few
hours, India's government announcing that it's going to be bringing in medical students to help on the frontlines of its war against COVID-19 to
which some of you may be saying really, India had a year to prepare for this.
And now in the midst of the worst explosion of cases on Earth it solutions too many may seem half baked and people are dying in their thousands as a
result. We invited the ruling party onto this program this evening and they have chosen not to take part. So we last heard from the BJP on CNN last
Thursday. I want you to hear part of that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TANEJA: If you want to tell honestly. Yes, of course we are in power. We are the government in India. So of course responsibilities first and
foremost ours, good or bad, whatever it is and it is our responsibility and we are trying our very level best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:40:00]
ANDERSON: Well, are they - are they trying their level best? Are they actually taking responsibility? Well, many will say, no. The latest
statement from the party's press or the government's press bureau reads, media reports alleging that center has not placed any fresh order for
COVID-19 vaccines are incorrect, and not based on facts.
That's it. Is he calling out fake news? Well, you've seen Sam's reporting this hour; you've seen Clarissa's reporting this hour you know what's going
on? We've just shown you what's going on. And where is the government, as it were, is apparently about misinformation spreading, which is important.
It doesn't appear to be taking a lead on getting anything done. There's been no long series of daily briefings and when they do happen more so
lately, they just seem to repeat the same information every day. We haven't heard Prime Minister Modi particularly frequently the last time was more
than a week ago by radio.
So as a passionate CNN Journalist wrote in Mumbai, "We've yet to hear an apology at home much less a plan, something we as citizens are owed in this
debacle". Well, CNN's Fareed Zakaria, Host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS" is grieving the loss of his mum to COVID-19 related issues and joining me now.
And I do want to begin with my condolences Fareed. I know you lost your mom in India earlier this year. What is going on there is very real and very
personal for you. I just want your sense of what has gone wrong?
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Well, I think it's a complicated question. And there isn't a simple answer. But I think it's fair to say
that the government, Prime Minister Modi initially overreacted, by which I mean that the initial lockdown was too harsh, too cruel, too complete,
particularly when COVID was not yet spreading that wildly in India.
And perhaps as a consequence of that, he took all his foot off the pedal very quickly. But the real mistake, if there is a lesson to be drawn from
this was the extraordinary hubris that you mentioned that developed after that.
The Indian government declaring victory much too soon deciding that Indians were perhaps exceptional, and having some kind of natural immunity from
COVID. And most crucially, deciding to then not only celebrate, but also to allow massive gatherings, political gatherings, political rallies.
But once you do that, remember, India is a democracy with the rule of law. And so that then becomes impossible to shut down other kinds of gatherings,
cricket matches, the religious festivals like the Kumbh Mela so all of that created a kind of out of control situation.
Now you add to this, the fact that the Indian government - India is what characterizes India, as everyone knows, is a dynamic, flourishing energetic
private sector and a dysfunctional, corrupt, weak public sector. And so here in a public health crisis the public sector has to perform.
And it simply did not, perhaps cannot, but it has certainly not been well led by Prime Minister Modi. So at the end of the day, I'm glad that the
government is taking responsibility. But they need to do more than take responsibility.
I mean, frankly, people should be fired. New people should be put in place. They need a national strategic plan. None of this is happening. It's
episodic, it's ad hoc. It remains still a situation where you have chaos in India and the government is in shambles.
ANDERSON: I want to take our viewers back to March of 2020. March the 24th in fact, India's Prime Minister, as you rightly pointed out; audit all 1.3
billion people in the country to stay at home for three weeks. Let's just listen to him speaking to the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARENDRA MODI, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER: To save the country to save every citizen of India to save you to save your family members from midnight
there will be a complete ban on moving out of your homes. Every street, every district, every lane, every village will be under lockdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: It was, Fareed, the biggest and as I understand it the most severe action undertaken anywhere to stop the spread of COVID.
[11:45:00]
For the hundreds of millions who live below the poverty line for those who live hand to mouth, the impact was devastating. And we remember the images
of people leaving the urban areas and drifting home with their - off times with their goods on their heads. I mean, it was it was sort of it was
apocalyptic to a certain extent, but it did work.
What you're saying is that even if the government were to lock down across the board on a nationwide basis, again, you're saying that wouldn't work
again, correct? The impact the economic impact would just be too much for so many people who are living in a nigh on destitute state anyway, they
must work.
ZAKARIA: Well, how you're exactly right. Having botched the first lockdown, the memories are so bad, that it would be impossible to do a second. The
first lockdown, as you say, as you pointed out, was utterly draconian, the most draconian in the world, most pharmacies shut down.
In fact, all pharmacies shut down. Because the government didn't distinguish for a while as to what could stay open? Grocery stores shut
down and of course, over 50 to 100 million migrant workers were trapped in the places they were. So the whole thing was a fiasco, it should have been
Telegraph.
They should have said, you know, you've got four days or something like that they should have made clear what was open what was not. But most
importantly, Becky, India is a poor country it does not have money for COVID relief. If you don't have money for COVID relief, you have to be very
careful with how you do a lockdown?
Finally, at this point, not only will the lockdown not be adhered to, the situation is so out of control. It's not clear that you would be able to
manage one. And particularly in places like the slums of Mumbai, or the slums of Calcutta.
You have the population densities that are 30 to 50 times higher than that of Western cities, telling people who live 15 people in two rooms that they
have to stay indoors, isn't exactly going to stop spread.
ANDERSON: We spoke to one journalist who actually penned an op-ed for CNN and part of in part of that, in part she wrote in India, no one has
apologized. No one has resigned nothing has changed, except the increasing numbers of cases and fatalities. What about some accountability at this
point, Fareed?
ZAKARIA: I think it's a very good point. And I would point out unfortunately, when you go back to a few months ago, when the Indian
government was declaring victory. The Indian media was largely complicit. Under Modi, the Indian media has collapsed.
I think it would be fair to say that India no longer has a real free press in the sense it has historically had one. Most of the television media the
local television media is slavishly pro government, acting as cheerleaders for Prime Minister Modi.
The few that are not, are persecuted and hounded with all kinds of, you know, gags cases and such. They have and in that atmosphere with no
independent media with no eyes on the government with no accountability the government has felt very little pressure to do what to do much.
And in fact, to the extent it has done things, it has essentially assumed greater and greater powers for itself, which have further curtail the
independence of the media. The government is now taking down Twitter accounts, asking Twitter to delete tweets. Same with Facebook, the social
media companies are obliging.
So what you are seeing is as the crisis gets worse, rather than the government demonstrating greater competence, what it is doing instead is
demonstrating greater authoritarianism.
ANDERSON: Fareed Zakaria on the story. Fareed, you will have noted that India's Supreme Court has ordered the government to address the oxygen
shortfall by midnight. We wait to see what action the government actually takes? And as we pointed out, the Indian government has been very slow to
respond to criticism in its actions on this latest wave and we will continue to press for further response from them thank you Fareed.
Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta also has a personal connection in India have a listen.
[11:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is very hard to look at these images in India with everything that we have known and learned
about this virus and seeing the impact of the viral spread and gatherings like this. It's just really, really dispiriting to see that at a time when,
you know, many parts of the world are starting to see some improvements.
We're starting to see improvements here in the United States in terms of cases going down and hospitalizations and deaths. And then I talked to my
family that live in New Delhi and they're scared. I think for maybe the first time really throughout this they are scared and it's a bit of
whiplash for them because just a month ago again, they were told that it's the end game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that's Dr. Sanjay Gupta for you. Thank you for joining us today. We are going to take a very quick break right after that we'll speak
to Vedika Sud in New Delhi about the human tragedy unfolding around her as Sanjay pointed out his family really frightened. And Vedika will explain
how people there are trying to help each other just get by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, despite the international aid that is pouring in many Indians are still having to fend for themselves in battling COVID-19
relying on neighbors and the broader community of times for support. I want to get you more on that.
Look at that through the eyes of my colleague and friend Vedika Sud. She is in New Delhi. And you're surrounded by people I know who have just been
pulling things together for each other and just describe what it's been like at home uncovering this story knowing that everybody is in this
together.
VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Becky, along with being a journalist, I'm an Indian, I'm a wife, I'm a daughter, I'm a mother. And the concern for my
family is something I live through every minute of the day. And they have same concern for me.
But let's just start with talking about the darkness we are facing. It's another dark night not only for Delhi, but for India, because we are
lacking accountability and transparency. And that's the reason why communities are coming together today.
Social media has been one such source and one such place where people are actually helping each other. A daughter reaches out and says my mother
needs an ICU bed. Can you help me? A son reaches out to say that my father needs oxygen? Can you help me?
Someone else reaches out to say I need four vials of Remdesivir can you help me? And help comes their way most of the times at least? I can tell
you this, Becky after speaking to so many people on a daily basis, at least the deaths that you have officially in Delhi could be much higher had it
not been for these communities coming together today.
These people are saving lives. I see the same thing. And let me talk about my personal experience here in my condominium in Gurgaon which is a
Satellite City right next to Delhi. People are actually coming together there, we were trying to get permissions to get one clubhouse of us a
community hall turned into a medical arrangement for immediate medical health because we don't know when we're going to get oxygen cylinders for
those people.
I have about 1200 to 1300 people living in my condo. And out of that, as of now we have over 70 active cases including children. We've lost a neighbor
as well. So it's time we thought we shouldn't depend on the government.
[11:55:00]
SUD: We shouldn't depend as many on authorities come together, we've put money together. We put quite a lot of money together over the last week to
make sure that we can import oxygen concentrators. We can import other materials needed. We're trying to get Remdesivir.
We're trying to make an excel sheet in my condo, where you have the names of people who've already suffered from COVID-19 and can help and volunteer
with plasma donation when required. This is just one micro case I'm talking about. But this has been replicated in so many places.
You don't want to lose your near and dear ones, Becky, is the worst thing you have to go through. And we've seen it all over Delhi and India
currently, Becky?
ANDERSON: Just briefly, how have you coped covering this and living through?
SUD: It's been tough. It's been very tough Becky. I've never seen something like this and I hope to God, no one in any country has to go through this
again. Learn from my experiences my messages in India to other countries.
You don't need to hold rave parties in a control environment to see what happens. Learn from our deaths learn from our misery. I have my parents at
home they were visiting they had to go to London to my sister who's just delivered her first baby my niece and we haven't been able to get to her to
get any support to her.
My parents I met them for the first time after a week of grueling schedule of just hearing bad news the other day, and I walked in and I could see
relief in my mother's eyes. My father saw me I kept my distance as wearing a mask. My daughter saw me and asked me have you tested negative mama?
She's all a five.
You know how I cope. I cope through her innocence through her love. We have you know these messages through the day and night these audio messages,
these video messages that we send to each other. That's how I'm coping. That's the little world I'm trying to live in while I go ahead and I report
what's happening here.
She makes cards for me just to keep my mood a bit better than it is. It's a very grim situation here Becky, journalists are dying. Over 150 journalists
have died since the beginning of this pandemic and that worries so many people because we have frontline workers but we don't get a vaccine as of
now, Becky.
ANDERSON: You've just shown the message that your daughter has written for you and I know that will keep you going. But do please pace yourself. This
isn't easy Vedika Sud it is always a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Well, I told you at the start of this program I wanted to put India in focus because the pandemic there is worsen anywhere else on Earth. Thank
you for your time as we have been through this and thank you for all of you watching wherever you are watching in the world. It is a very good evening
from Abu Dhabi.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
