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Connect the World
Soon: Israeli Security Cabinet to Meet; Israel Defense Minister: Ready to Expand Campaign As Long As Needed; Blinken and Lavrov Firm But Polite in First Meeting; CNN Gets Rare Access to Russian Base in High North; CNN Talks With Palestinian Authority Prime Minister; Mohammad Shtayyeh: Palestinian Authority is not Putting Lives At Risk. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 20, 2021 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN, Abu Dhabi. This is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, this out after 11 days of fighting could a ceasefire be on the horizon? Diplomacy is ramping up in
the Middle East as the push for an Israel/Hamas ceasefire intensifies.
Israel's security cabinet convening in one hour to discuss ongoing operations in Gaza but not saying whether a ceasefire is being discussed.
But a Hamas official tells CNN as ceasefire appears imminent. Well, this as Foreign Ministers from three European nations arrived in Israel including
the German Foreign Minister touring a site damaged by rocket fire but also going to the Palestinian territories.
These visits coming after a more than eight hour low in attacks the longest since fighting broke out 11 days ago. But we should stress this conflict is
not over. More rockets from Gaza fired towards Israel today and Israel continuing to hit what it says is underground Hamas terror targets
overnight.
Israel's Prime Minister saying his country will continue its operations until its objectives are met. Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry now reports
230 people killed in Gaza. 65 of them children, more than 1700 are injured. Israel's military says 12 people have died in Israel. Well, Hadas Gold is
with us from Jerusalem. Nic Robertson is along the Israel/Gaza border.
And Hadas let me start with you. I know that Nic is just trying to establish his shot. Nic, I'll come to you. Firstly, Hadas, what do we know
about what we might expect from this cabinet meeting at this point?
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are expectations that possible ceasefire will be discussed at the Security Cabinet meeting which is
expected to take place in the next few hours.
But the rhetoric we're hearing from Israeli officials throughout the day today has not been necessarily towards a ceasefire, despite what we're
hearing from a Hamas official telling CNN that a ceasefire is imminent and other reports out there that there is possibility of a ceasefire within the
next 24 hours.
In fact, the Defense Minister Benny Gantz released a statement a video statement just within the last few hours, saying that Israel is prepared
and ready to expand the campaign for as long as it's needed. He's also said that they are taking Hamas on a journey back in time a journey which will
not allow them to return.
And that is the real objective of this military campaign, according to multiple people that I've spoken to and according to multiple interviews
that Israeli officials are giving out is that they see this campaign, something they have prepared for, for some time, as a way to try and bring
quiet back to the Israeli communities, especially around the Gaza Strip.
They think that every target that they hit, every underground tunnel, every rocket launcher, every Hamas Commanders' apartment that they hit will bring
them more quiet and calm. They want to degrade Hamas' ability to the point that they won't be able or won't think about sending rockets out towards
Israel.
Once again, they're continuing this military campaign despite the growing international pressure despite the pressure that they are continuing to get
from the Americans. I think what's really interesting is how the tone from.
Especially from President Joe Biden from the Americans started a few days ago and how it is continuously grown over the past few days to the point
that now we're getting reports that the Americans are growing frustrated and impatient with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, especially with the
Israelis, that they are not speaking about a ceasefire more that they're not pushing towards a ceasefire.
Now, I think that the Israelis recognize that they had only a few days to continue as this - as the conversation as the pressure started building.
And there will potentially be conversations about a possible ceasefire at the Security Cabinet.
But you have to keep in mind that for the Israeli officials, for the politicians in this cabinet, there is of course, the domestic angle at hand
here. How the Israeli public feels about this, as rockets are continuing to be fired from Gaza into Israel, while also what the international community
is saying?
Especially as we are all seeing just the absolute death and destruction that's happening to the Gazan civilians who are caught up in this war
between the Israeli military and between the militants in Hamas?
And I think that that is something that they will be keeping high in mind during the Security Cabinet meeting that they will have to balance how much
longer can they continue reaching their military objectives with of course the international pressure?
ANDERSON: Nic, you're on the ground. I hope you can hear me. Just what is the atmosphere as you understand it, what is going on now? And what are the
expectations?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, I think there is a partly a concern of the public and then the - here at this IDF
artillery base where we are at.
[11:05:00]
ROBERTSON: That if there is a ceasefire coming, that there could be a big push at the last minute by Hamas to fire a lot of rockets to sort of create
a last splash, if you will. And at this base in the last, I would say, 10 minutes or so 15 minutes, we've taken cover three times at least because
the sirens have gone off because they've been intercepts overhead.
And the town is fairly close to the border with Gaza had been told to stay closer to their shelters. Some of the other towns are little bit further
away had been hit. Ashkelon, Ashdod and - have been hit by rockets today. So you have that sort of background concern.
But at the same time, you know, there is that sense that maybe things are winding down. I don't know if you can hear some of that music that's going
on in the background. But there's a group here in a big bus and I think it's a bit too far away for us to swing the camera around and see that as a
group, we might be able to see that yellow bus over there.
But they showed up outside this military base here to play their dance music for the troops, this sort of morale boost. So I think you get a
sense, when you see things like that, that there is, you know, a continued public support for the prime minister for his position that more attacks
may be necessary to provide Israelis with ongoing safety from future Hamas attacks.
So I think, you know, from where we're at, it still feels as if we're in that middle ground. It could go either way with a ceasefire, that, you
know, the exchange, the artillery fire, the intercepts, the air strikes, they're all continuing.
ANDERSON: Nic, while you and I have been talking this from Benny Gantz, the Defense Minister, who says, and I quote him here. Israel is prepared and
ready to expand the campaign as long as it is needed. That's Benny Gantz the Defense Minister, we are taking Hamas - listen to these words, Nic.
We are taking Hamas on a journey back in time; he said a journey from which we will not allow them to return your thoughts?
ROBERTSON: And Hamas' Spokesman this afternoon has been saying that they have scored a victory here that they have left Israel shocked and stunned.
It's Hamas that's had the victory here. And if you remember, a few days ago, a senior Hamas official said that one of the points or one of the
discussion points around any potential sort of easing of hostilities was based around the fact that neither side would claim a victory.
So I think as you potentially you can read this both ways, as you potentially go into a ceasefire situation, both sides are going to want to
say we can do more. We can continue the fight, and that we've succeeded in our aims and objectives. That's how as leadership's on both sides, you can
step back from the conflict, you've done your job.
But I think perhaps what we're hearing from Defense Secretary Benny Gantz, there is an answer, if you will, or a repast - reports that have come from
the U.S. and Israeli media that would suggest that the military here in Israel are essentially running out of targets, and that it is really a
political will, rather than a military need to continue.
So I think what we're hearing from the Defense Minister is we can go on. We've got the capability there are targets out there, and that certainly
creates the political space for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to take either option either to continue or to go for that end of hostilities right
now.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is on the ground at the Gaza/Israel border. Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem. And let me just repeat what we have just had into the
network. Israel and I quote here prepared and ready to expand the campaign, as long as it is needed.
Those words are of Benny Gantz on Thursday. We are taking Hamas on a journey back in time, he said, a journey from which we will not allow them
to return. Well, tens of thousands of Palestinians have been displaced in Gaza and are in desperate need.
My next guest is urging both Israel and Hamas to allow for more humanitarian efforts there. Fabrizio Carboni is the International Red Cross
Director for the region. And he says and I quote, the torment of not knowing whether it is safe to take the shortest trip or run the most basic
of errands is one that weighs heavily on people after more than a week of fighting.
Fabrizio Carboni joins me now via Skype from Geneva. Sir, in your statement, you said that you have informed both Israeli and Hamas
authorities that as of today, you would be moving around and stepping up progressively the ICRC's response to critical needs. What's been the
response to that outreach and what is your access to Gaza currently?
[11:10:00]
FABRIZIO CARBONI, ICRC NEAR AND MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR: I mean, what we facing is unpredictability, on, you know, on strikes. And so when you move
around a place like Gaza, you never know where the heat will come?
So we felt that it was important today to confront all the parties to this conflict with their responsibility over the last 10 days, we could assist
remotely hospital, we could provide support to the basic infrastructure, but we couldn't move out and talk to people see by ourselves, what are the
needs.
So we felt that now, it was enough, and that we needed to confronted authorities with their responsibility. And we said that from now on, we
would move and that it would be the responsibility of the fighting parties to make sure according to the obligation, that we can move safely, and that
we can reach people who after 10 days are really tired.
ANDERSON: Your reaction then to the Israeli Defense Minister's comments in the past couple of minutes that Israel is ready to expand the campaign.
CARBONI: I mean, from our perspective, it's hard to understand what it means considering the already high impact, high humanitarian impact of the
ongoing violence. So I have no comments on a military decision, I just - can just say that in a densely populated area, like Gaza whatever military
action you take, will have dramatic consequences for the civilian population.
And we see it every day. We see roads destroyed, so it means that people can't have access to hospital. Just to give you an example, the main
hospital in Gaza Shifa Hospital, has just one road left to have access to this main hospital, the other roads are destroyed.
So we hear - we are really concerned because we believe that we need to deescalate that tension. And by the way, I'm not just - we're not just
talking to Israeli authorities, the message is also for Hamas, this attacking with rockets Israelis is not is not acceptable.
So on for both parties, we saying now it's time to talk time to find a way to seize the hostilities. And if they cannot, at least they should give us
humanitarian window for the civilian population to get out, to have some rest to breathe a bit and for us to work.
ANDERSON: What are you most concerned about at this point?
CARBONI: I mean, first is the intensity of the violence. I mean, I think people in Gaza people in Israel have seen you know in the past violence,
but what they experiencing today, it's really unprecedented in terms of intensity. So that's the first thing which is of concern for us.
The second is that in Gaza, they are - it's difficult to bring supply in Gaza. And today, most of the basic infrastructure, including hospital, is
running on generators, not on power supply. So it means that if it cannot have fuel inside soon hospital won't be in a position to function anymore.
So supply in Gaza is a major concern. And then again, we call on all parties, because all parties have responsibility enough capacity to bring
in goods and people in Gaza.
ANDERSON: While there is tragically been death and destruction as a result of this conflict on both sides, as you rightly point out. It is Gaza, where
the impact has been greatest all of this in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
Earlier this week an Israeli airstrikes that the IDF says was targeting Hamas damaged the nearby Gaza and Ministry of Health building and in that
building was one of Gaza's main Coronavirus Testing Centers and a lab as I understand it.
At present 30 percent of people being tested are positive. And without proper testing capabilities, you must have concerns about what happens
next?
CARBONI: I mean that's a very important point. I mean, I don't have specific information on this center for testing. But just before this last
cycle of violence, all health infrastructures in Gaza were under massive pressure because of the COVID epidemic. And this didn't go away.
You know so the health system is under major pressure because of ongoing violence because of the pandemic and also what we should never forget is
that the previous violence in 2014 it's not that we rebuilt everything and that everything was fine.
[11:15:00]
CARBONI: You know, actually Gaza never fully recovered from the previous cycle of violence. And by the way, it makes me think what will come after
this current cycle of violence, if the root causes of this crisis are not addressed.
If you allow me just a small thing, you know that a young boy who was 15 or 16-years-old is the third time that he's going through this kind of
violence and conflict. And I think it's about time now to find a political answer to this crisis, which is unbearable for all people in the
Palestinian occupied territory, or in Israel.
ANDERSON: You will - I assume then be calling for or at least in support of a ceasefire? How concerned are you if that is not forthcoming imminently?
CARBONI: I mean our ideal solution is a ceasefire. Now, if we can't reach the ceasefire, and that the fighting continues, we really ask, we really
demand at least a humanitarian pose every day. You know, a window of a couple of hours, allowing people to have a break from these violence,
allowing them to go out to purchase what they have to purchase?
To take care of what they need to take care of, and allow us also to work and move in Gaza so ideal solution ceasefire and credible political process
if we can't reach this in the short term, just give people of Gaza and Israel a break.
ANDERSON: With that, we'll leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us the Head of the ICRC in region. We will have a lot more on
this conflict ahead, including my interview with the Palestinian Prime Minister, what he understands to be the likelihood of a ceasefire and what
happens after this fighting ends that is coming up in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:20:00]
ANDERSON: On the sidelines of the Arctic Council Summit, Russia and the United States make strides to improve their relationship but amid that deep
divides are making that difficult. U.S. Secretary of State and his Russian counterpart sat down for the first time since the start of the Biden
Administration.
Now the two touched on difficult issues like Russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny, the natural gas pipeline into Germany and the military
buildup near Ukraine. One thing they didn't do was make final plans for their bosses to meet. Let's bring in Matthew Chance joining us live from
Moscow.
And I want our viewers just have a listen to what Antony Blinken had to say about Russia's relationship with the United States, stand by Matthew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: If Russia acts aggressively against us, our partners our allies will respond. But having said that,
there are many areas where our interests intersect, and overlap, and we believe that we can work together and indeed build on those interests.
It's our view that if the leaders of Russia and the United States can work together cooperatively, our people, the world can be a safer and more
secure place. And that's what we see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Which begs the question, of course, is that likely is the relationship between Russia and the U.S. fit for a reset at this point?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was big if, isn't it? You know, and that was the contingency that Antony Blinken said
was necessary for that to happen. Because even though there are areas of cooperation there in the Arctic - at the Arctic Council, and there's a
means by which they can cooperate over situation in the Arctic.
There's the Iran nuclear deal, both countries now in favor of re establishing the terms of that, and various other areas of what they call
strategic stability, which both United States and Russia have a joint role to play, which they are looking at arms control, and things like that,
which they are looking to cooperate in.
There's a list as long as your arm Becky of the things that they don't agree on from, you know, the Russian activities in Ukraine - annexed
Ukrainian territory and is fueling a rebellion in the east of the country. The poisoning of opponents with toxic nerve agents Alexei Navalny was one
of them.
There were others, of course, in other countries, notably, in Britain the jailing of Alexei Navalny here and the suppression generally, of
dissidents. There's also a number of other more sort of minor bilateral disputes, the diplomatic disputes, which is seen an erosion of the number
of diplomats in each of those countries, to the extent that the moment that the ambassadors for each country aren't even in their various at their
various posts, their respective posts.
And so yes, there are areas of cooperation and cooperating in the future is something that Antony Blinken was saying he wants to do with Russia. But of
course, there are loads of areas as well, where they don't cooperate, and where they don't see eye to eye.
I mean, there was clearly an effort underway, though, on the part of the Biden Administration, to create a sort of more welcoming, you know, softer
backdrop, if you like, for a meeting to take place between President Biden and President Putin.
Just before this meeting in Reykjavik in Iceland, between the Secretary of State and the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. It was essentially
announced in the United States that the U.S. would be waiving sanctions on a very controversial pipeline, Nord Stream II, which is meant to carry gas
from Russia to Germany, bypassing Ukraine and therefore depriving Ukraine of essential resources that it would normally get for transiting that gas.
There's been a reaction that's come to us from the Ukrainian Presidency, Ukrainian President Zelensky, saying that this waving of sanctions is a
personal loss for President Biden. And he says it's a serious geopolitical victory for the Russian Federation, not just because it weakens Ukraine
through depriving of economic resources.
But also because - certainly the U.S. has talked about a lot because it increases Russia's grip or tightens Russian grip on the energy supply to
the European Union, particularly on Germany as well. And so I think the Kremlin will be sitting back on the events of the past couple of weeks and
on the meeting yesterday.
And be quite content with what they've achieved so far, a meeting of summit which has been proposed between the two Presidents, President Biden and
President Putin, and this waving of sanctions on perhaps the most controversial geopolitical issue that stands between the two countries.
ANDERSON: Matthew Chance on the story out of Moscow.
[11:25:00]
ANDERSON: What is one of our headlines today, the other - well our top story, the possibility of a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel? If a
ceasefire is reached in the coming hours or days then what will the rockets and bombs may be silent? But those who feel that they are tread upon will
be not. Ben Wedeman looks at the road ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Since the 10th of May, the God of wars smiled down upon this blighted land,
airstrikes and rocket barrages, artillery and mortar fire. Hundreds of people dead and more than 2000 wounded tens of thousands made homeless, a
ceasefire or perhaps a law approaches and then what?
WEDEMAN (on camera): The current round of hostilities between Gaza and Israel this too shall pass. What shall not pass are the reasons for this
conflict played out in places like here Al-Bireh and other villages, towns and cities in the West Bank, in places like Sheik Jarrah in East Jerusalem,
and indeed in Gaza itself.
WEDEMAN (voice over): Going back more than a decade Sheik Jarrah where the Palestinian families face forced eviction has been a constant flashpoint in
Jerusalem, even more so today. In Jerusalem Palestinian residents, nearly 40 percent of the population pay taxes carry Israeli identification cards,
but among other things can't vote in the national elections.
A new wave of protests is broken out in the West Bank, where millions of Palestinians live in limbo, crammed into an archipelago of pseudo
autonomous enclaves all ultimately under Israeli military rule. Since hostilities began, Israel has pummeled Gaza with hundreds of airstrikes
while Hamas and other factions have fired more than 4000 rockets into Israel.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, but has maintained along with Egypt, an effective blockades since 2007, when Hamas took over. Israel controls the
birth registry, the airspace and maritime access and much more. This war will change none of that.
TAWFEEQ HADDAD, JERUSALEM RESIDENT: Just like in South Africa, this has to end. Palestinians will not be second class citizens in their homeland are
kicked out of their place.
WEDEMAN (voice over): When relative calm returns and the world's attention moves on. The petty pace of this conflict will resume from day to day until
once more on to the breach. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Coming up next, signs of a ceasefire from the Middle East. I'll be speaking live with the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister about just
where we are on that and more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: We talked a few moments ago about the meeting between U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey
Lavrov. The U.S. Secretary of State voiced concerns about Russia's military buildup in the Arctic region, climate changes opened up previously
inaccessible areas in Russia has moved in building hundreds of military installations there. My colleague, Fred Pleitgen, got a rare look at one of
those bases.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The course due north flying for hours to Russia's Northern most military
installation. Moscow granted us a rare visit to its base on Franz Josef Land, a barren archipelago in the Arctic Ocean that which Russia believes
is key to dominating the Arctic.
PLEITGEN (on camera): This entire Air Base is covered in ice and yet the Russians have managed to extend the runway to a point that they can land
even their heaviest aircraft here, including strategic bombers capable of carrying nuclear weapons.
PLEITGEN (voice over): The effort Moscow is making to upgrade its Arctic bases is massive. Inside the modern housing complex called a "Tree Foil"
the air commander confirms to me that even Russia's dangerous TU-95 strategic bombers, a plane similar in size to the U.S.'s B-52 to now
operate out of the airfield here.
Of course they can he says. Have a look we can land all types of aircraft on this base. A chilling prospect for the U.S. and its allies considering
Franz Josef Land is only about 160 miles East of NATO territory. That's well within range of these powerful coastal defense rockets the Russians
also showed us. They're capable of hitting ships more than 200 miles off the coast, a threat that worries the U.S.
BLINKEN: We have concerns about some of the increased military activities in the Arctic. That increases the dangers or prospects of accidents
miscalculations.
PLEITGEN (voice over): The main reason why this standoff between the U.S. and Russia is heating up in the Arctic is climate change. As polar ice
melts, the region is becoming more accessible and Russia is moving fast to stake its claims. Much of that effort is lead from here the Headquarters of
the Northern Fleet in the closed military town of Severomorsk (ph) which we also got access to.
[11:35:00]
PLEITGEN (voice over): Russia has been upgrading its fleet up here for years. Its flagship is the "Peter the great" nuclear battle cruiser
outfitted with an array of weapons to hit targets on sea and land and fight off planes and submarines.
Russia has a clear strategy up here in the Arctic, and essentially revolves around three different things on the one hand, a very strong military then
dominating the Northern Sea route and also tapping and exploiting natural resources. And Russia is warning the U.S. and its allies to mess with that
plan.
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It has been absolutely clear for everyone for a long time that this is our territory this is our land. And
we are responsible for our Arctic Coasts to be safe. Everything that our country does there is absolutely legitimate.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Rhetoric that increasingly has the U.S. and Russia on a collision course in the high north with Moscow so far in a stronger
position Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Severomorsk, Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We're taking a very short break. I'm Becky Anderson; you're watching "Connect the World" back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: In about a half hour Israel Security Cabinet will meet that is according to the Intelligence Minister. Well for his part Israel's Prime
Minister says the operation on Gaza will continue until his country's objectives are met. The U.S. President said in no uncertain terms he wants
the escalation to end immediately. Hamas, on the other hand believes a ceasefire is imminent.
Earlier on Thursday, there was a lull in rockets fired towards Israel, but it lasted only eight hours. Well, I want to bring in the Palestinian
Authority Prime Minister at this point, Mohammad Shtayyeh, he is joining us from Ramallah in the West Bank. And sir, welcome to the program. Thank you
for joining us.
In the last few minutes Israel's Defense Minister, saying Israel is and I quote, prepared and ready to expand the campaign and that they are and
again I quote here, taking Hamas on a journey back in time, your response?
MOHAMMAD SHTAYYEH, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, by all means this aggression should really stop immediately. It did cause so many
lives of innocent people, mainly children. Netanyahu obviously is extending this operation to serve his political interests.
This is self centered Netanyahu, the Prime Minister who wants simply to stay in power and he is making the cost of his or he staying in power - the
cost of so many lives so many innocent Palestinians has lost their lives because of that.
[11:40:00]
SHATAYYEH: I think Netanyahu is a deviant Prime Minister who has been totally rejecting every mediation effort by United States by the Arab
countries, mainly Egypt and by Europe. And I think that Netanyahu should be held accountable to all what he is committing of crimes against our people
in the West Bank in Jerusalem, and mainly in Gaza.
ANDERSON: The Israeli say that they are acting in self defense, and there has been significant death and destruction on both sides during this recent
escalation of violence. Both sides firing rockets and airstrikes, Hamas firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian populations in Israel saved
only by an Iron Dome.
You have called on the UN to stop only Israeli attack sir. You must also condemn Hamas in the strongest possible terms, let us be unequivocal here.
SHATAYYEH: Well, look, at the end of the day, all what you are looking at is the symptoms of the problem. Gaza has been under siege for more than 14
years, Jerusalem has been walled city and access to it has been very restricted. Israel has killed 11 people in the West Bank without any of
them using any violence.
So let's not focus on the symptoms. The most important issue is the causes of this conflict. This conflict has been ongoing for so many years. There
have been many attempts to end it. This process has totally failed because of the Israeli measures against our people, whether it is land
confiscation, and other.
So I think the issue is the causes of the conflict that needs to be settled, and not the symptoms of the conflict. What we are looking at is
symptoms of issues rather than really causes of the main issue, which is the Israeli occupation, Israeli siege on Gaza, Israeli measures against Al
Aqsa Mosque, Israeli measures against Sheik Jarrah, Israeli measures against our people everywhere.
ANDERSON: Prime Minister you haven't taken the opportunity to condemn Hamas. So I put this to you. It is the responsibility of both sides to
adhere to their responsibilities and obligations under international law to protect civilians while these are not your rockets. How can you not condemn
the actions and impact of Hamas? Have you personally communicated with Hamas and told them to stop firing rockets?
SHATAYYEH: We are communicating with everybody with all Arab countries. Our president has reached out to European leaders, to Arab leaders, to even
United States to everybody to try to stop these atrocities against our people. At the end of the day we are for the respect of international law,
we are for the respect of the international humanitarian law.
As I told you, the issue is not who to condemned? The issue is that we condemn all those who are causing the death of our people. The most
important part of the story is look what is happening there? Incredible destruction of Gaza, every two years Gaza wakes up and then there is a wave
of destruction.
If the Israelis there won't really a peaceful measure, a truce, a ceasefire I think we need a message from the Israel is that they are ready to
regenerate hope for the Palestinian people. This occupation should end and the sufferings of our people in Gaza in Jerusalem in the West Bank, in
refugee camps of Lebanon should also stop immediately.
Otherwise, it's a cycle of violence. Every time we come to truce to quietly the Israeli for--
ANDERSON: I understand your position.
(CROSS TALK)
SHATAYYEH: --political purposes. They come to a new round of attacks.
ANDERSON: OK. This is a devastating, cyclical situation war, a temporary peace followed by war, again. By not condemning Hamas, by not taking the
opportunity to condemn one side of these firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel it sounds as if you are by default supporting Hamas' actions.
Is that your position?
SHATAYYEH: Our position is very clear. First we need immediate stop of action; immediate ceasefire to save lives one. Second, we need this
occupation to end. Thirdly, there is a political vacuum that we should be fulfilled. There are some efforts by the French by the Europeans by the
Russians by the Americans Netanyahu is rejecting all of this.
I think what we need now - the issue is not a matter of condemnation. The issue is that we need to save lives of people. The issue is that aggression
should does - should not repeat itself every two years.
[11:45:00]
SHATAYYEH: We, I myself, I have built some schools three times, we built some bridges in Gaza three or four times, there is a machine of
destruction. And I think that is what should stop, by all means. All what these actions show that we need a peace process.
We need an initiative that ends the Israeli occupation to our land. What is happening in Sheik Jarrah and Jerusalem in the West Bank is an aggression
by the Israeli army. We are not occupying Tel Aviv. We are not occupying Israel territory. It is our territory that is occupied by the Israelis.
It is not we who initiated wars. It is Israel that is actually launching wars on us every two years, every single day. Land is confiscated; more
settlers are injected into our territory. These are the causes of the conflict.
ANDERSON: Prime Minister, you're talking about the causes of the conflict? I do want to press you and I must press you at this point on actions at
this point that could allow for a ceasefire. What concrete - what concrete steps is the PA taking today to help reverse this for the fortunes of
Palestinians and Israelis? And I give you the opportunity, again, to condemn Hamas' indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel.
SHATAYYEH: We are doing - we are doing every effort to stop this immediate aggression. Our president has been in contact as I said earlier with all
Arab leaders with European leaders with international. He called the Secretary General of the United Nation.
Look, the United Nations Security Council has failed four times to call for a ceasefire. The European Union has been vision for it and unfortunately, a
veto has been used. There is a blockade of an international consensus. The whole international community wants this aggression to stop.
And there are people who want to continue with it. Unfortunately, the Prime Minister of Israel has been calling for more time more aggression, all is
centered again, and it's centered on his personal political life. We should not make a tradeoff between personal agendas, and bloodshed of children in
Gaza, or the 11 people who lost their lives in the West Bank, and then Jerusalem and so on.
So the issue is not about condemnation. The issue is that we need this to stop now. And now means now not tomorrow. And all what he is doing is
buying time buying time try to regain political initiative. That is not what we want now.
What is needed is that if we want a political process, it has to be focused on ending occupation. If we want ceasefire, it should not be about personal
political agendas of the prime minister.
ANDERSON: Or indeed of the group that is designated a terror organization around the world that of Hamas. We have seen violent incidents between
Palestinians and Israeli police in the West Bank. What are you doing at the PA to limit such clashes?
The Israeli President has warned of the potential of civil war between Israelis and the Palestinians. That is a catastrophic scenario and given
your rhetoric towards Israel, you could be or will be possibly accused of inflaming such possibilities. Are you not?
SHATAYYEH: No. Look, my dear, this is not a civil war. This is a situation in which there is an occupying power. And this occupying power is facing
our peaceful demonstrators with machine guns. Israelis were not killed in the West Bank.
Palestinians are marching to protest Israeli aggression against Jerusalem and incursions into Al Aqsa Mosque and Aggression on Gaza. Our people here
are peacefully demonstrating against this oppression. And Israel is facing them with live bullets.
It's live killing. It's a shoot to kill policy that Israel is employing in all Palestinian territories. So the again, if the measures that are taken
by the Israelis what Israel is doing against Palestinians rise up to a criminal act.
And I know what the Attorney General of ICC has been saying that this is a criminal act, and it should be stopped and instead of blaming each other
now, I think what is needed is to allow the Security Council to come up with a resolution that calls for immediate ceasefire.
[11:50:00]
SHATAYYEH: That we open a new page and that we look for a horizon that brings this peace to track and peace negotiations in a way that is focused
on ending occupation.
ANDERSON: Certainly a new page would be where so many people want this, to go at this point for the good of Palestinians and indeed, for the good of
the Israelis. President Mahmoud Abbas has been in power for 16 years, and many, including many Palestinians that we have spoken to, in the past week,
call him and his government which you are a part inept, and dysfunctional at best.
There are those who have described the government as corrupt. Your main political opponents are a designated terror organization, and this war will
likely raise their popularity. Is the rule of the PA and that of Abbas at this point, putting people's lives at risk?
SHATAYYEH" I don't - I don't agree with this at all. It is not we who are putting people's life at risk. It is we who are allowing the right of
people to express themselves. It is we who are also opening all channels of possible negotiations. It is we who are partners for peace.
It is we who are calling for peace and justice. It is we who are partners for the international community. And it is we who are calling for elections
to take place. And it is Israel that is taking the lives of our kids. And it is Israel that is blocking our right to vote and to be candidates and to
have democratic elections.
And it is Israel that is confiscating our land. And it is Israel that is planting settlers in our territory. So please don't both on equal footing
the occupied and occupiers that's unfair. International law is very explicit, that does not put equal footing occupiers and occupied.
And the Palestinian people have all the right to defend them being under occupation. And I think that international law allows that. And what is
happening here is peaceful defense and peaceful expression, and peaceful right to demonstration.
What we are doing is that we are allowing that to happen, that should not be escalated. It is Israel, who dictates the shots. Israel decides how many
Palestinians to kill every day, and Israel decides how many - of land or acres of land wants to confiscate every day. So therefore--
ANDERSON: Let me just stop you there for a moment.
SHATAYYEH: --and the international community is not blind. We should not put on equal footing occupied and occupiers.
ANDERSON: Let me just put this to you because you talk about peaceful demonstrations. It was the Israeli Prime Minister himself, who talked about
the catastrophic nature of what he described as lynching's, by Jews, on Arabs and by Arabs on Jews. This was not peaceful demonstration sir.
So I put it to you again, just how concerned are you about the potential explained effect on the ground in Israel?
SHATAYYEH: We are very concerned about the lives. We are very concerned of the lives of innocent people. We are - we are very concerned. I don't want
to see bloodshed of any Palestinian or any person in the region. We are calling for peaceful measures. And we have been employing peaceful
measures.
And as I told you, it is not we who are endangering the lives of people. It is the Israeli army that is blocking all that - bonds and the entrances and
exits of the Palestinian cities. And it is Israeli army that is using live ammunition against innocent and peaceful demonstrators.
So we care for the lives of our people. Of course we do. We are responsible people. But the question is that if people are ready to express themselves,
we don't block that. We try to maintain things as they should be in a peaceful way. The problem is that every funeral generates a new funeral.
And it is Palestinian funerals that we see every day here and there, whether in Jerusalem, in the West Bank or in the Gaza Strip.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about how we might, least in the short term, prevent those funerals. Let's get back to the idea of a ceasefire, and indeed the
period afterwards. Donor countries are losing patients, aren't they?
Both with Israel and with you both Israel and the PA there - its critics will say view the international community as a bottomless pit of money that
can rebuild Gaza and then just about keep it afloat. But the PA needs to go back to Gaza and to do that you need to reach a more concrete agreement
with Hamas than you have had for 15 years.
[11:55:00]
ANDERSON: What is that agreement going to look like sir? And what will the outreach to Israel for a solution going forward look like sir?
SHATAYYEH: Well, look, we tried to come to agreement with Hamas through four different agreements, it didn't work. And then we decided to go into
elections that were blocked by the Israelis. Our president has issued a presidential decree with the date of after tomorrow, which is 22nd of May.
And the Israelis they did block our intentions and our decision to have elections because they did not want to allow our people in Jerusalem to be
part of the election process. And therefore, this reconciliation of Palestinian issue was actually blocked because we know the colonial
strategy is divided and rule.
And Netanyahu is part of the colonization program and a colonizing power. Now, we will launch a new dialogue in order for us really, because we want
to come to a political ground with Hamas. We want to come to a political ground with all Palestinian factions nobody should declare war on himself
or herself.
And nobody should be part of a peace process on his own. The Palestinians, we need to be united in order for us to face the challenges that we are
facing. Palestinians they care for their dignity, their freedom, their independence, their sovereign state, their Jerusalem, their unity, we do
care for these things.
The question is that we need Israel also to lift its veto on the Palestinian reconciliation, because not allowing Palestinians to have
elections; it is closing the door for a Palestinian unity. And that is where we are heading. I hope that a Palestinian dialogue will be launched
very soon.
And that we will come to a national unity government based on what our president has been saying yesterday. We need to come to ground in which
that we address the serious challenges that we are facing.
ANDERSON: We know many will say that Israel would rather not allow Palestinian elections to take place in East Jerusalem, but it because it
regards old city as its sovereign territory. But those elections did happen before in 2006 under pressure from the U.S.
The Americans could put that pressure on again, of course, and there are those who say that it was convenient for the PA that those elections were
actually bespoke. We hope to see them and it has been good to have you on for your perspective, sir, on what is going on at present. We thank you
very much indeed, for joining us.
That is the Palestinian Authority President - Prime Minister sorry there joining us from Ramallah. From the team here in Abu Dhabi, it is a very
good evening.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: This hour the Israeli Security Cabinet meets amid growing speculation of a ceasefire. Here is what's coming up.
END
