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Supreme Leader Khamenei Urges Iranians To Vote; Iran Election Expected To Deliver Hardline President; Israeli Jets Strike Gaza For Second Time This Week; EU Lifts Travel Curbs On U.S. And 13 Other Countries. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired June 18, 2021 - 10:00   ET




BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI ANCHOR: Iranians are heading to the polls today in a presidential election that is all but decided.


AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, IRANIAN SUPREME LEADER (through translation): Each single vote will form the collective votes of the nation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was some fear (INAUDIBLE) on the part of the authorities that people might stay home that voter turnout could be very



ANDERSON: Tonight, election or selection? We're for live in Iran as millions there are voting for a new president but many people just sticking

it out at home. Why is, coming up?

Then the EU fling open its doors to Americans vaccinated or not?

China about to hand out its billion COVID shot. Yes, you heard me right. It's billion. We are live on that for you.

Well, it's 6:30 in the evening in Tehran, it is 6:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello, and welcome to the show.

Right now, Iranians are voting, but even by Iran's own controlled standards this election it seems is anything but competitive. Let me talk you through

what's going on. Low turnout, few candidates and a race that seems like a foregone conclusion. Iranians are voting in a controversial presidential

election after most of the main challenges to the front runner were barred from participating.

Well, that front runner Judicial Chief Ebrahim Raisi he will face a host of issues if elected, economic disarray caused by crippling sanctions. The

Covid-19 pandemic Iran hit hard from the start. And now with a low vaccination rate calls for reform especially among Iran's younger

generation and the nuclear deal and ongoing efforts to get the U.S. to rejoin and Iran backing compliance. And finally, questions surrounding the

eventual successor to Iran supreme leader who is 81 years old.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in fact passed the first ballot in the election he among the many in Iran criticizing the barring of further serious

contenders in the race, but still urging people to get out and vote. Have a listen.


KHAMENEI (through translation): Each vote is important. One should not think that nothing will happen with a single vote. Even a single vote is

had significance. Each single vote will form the collective votes of the nation.


ANDERSON: But it certainly in the run up to this period, many Iranians may not take his advice. One 32-year-old student telling CNN I'm not going to

vote, because I believe there is no appropriate person to choose as a candidate. A middle-aged man telling us the government themselves have

already selected the president. This is the truth he said. Everyone talking to us asking to remain anonymous.

Why? Well, for many it seems a foregone conclusion, Ebrahim Raisi will succeed Hassan Rouhani as president. He's a hardline conservative,

currently heads Iran judiciary. The U.S. sanctioned Raisi for alleged human rights violations and rights groups say he participated in death panels

that executed thousands of political prisoners something never publicly acknowledged by Raisi or the Iranian government.

Well, our senior international correspondent program Frederik Pleitgen has reported extensively from Iran over the years. He's collecting us tonight

from a polling station in the Iranian capital.

And before we get to the right now, Fred, I do want to zip back to the last elections in 2017.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Just how remarkable the scene is here, because now the lines you're actually

extending all the way down to the street. We're only not inside the polling station yet, we're not even inside the compound yet. And then if I walk in

here, you'll see that this entire courtyard is still full of people. So, you know, you've been saying how there are still long lines. We feel that

the lines here are actually getting longer.


ANDERSON: Right, that was 2017. Four years on, are we seeing similar enthusiasm?

PLEITGEN: No, we're certainly not, the lines certainly are a lot shorter. However, I think some of the sort of doomsday projections for the low voter

turnout so far, at least from what we're seeing Becky. They haven't materialized either.


I want to take a look around this area, around the place, the lovely Hosseini air shot (ph) mosque, which is, of course one of the main polling

stations here in central Tehran, where I think you and I have covered elections from this building. It is, of course, one of the most beautiful

polling stations probably in the world, you can see that there are still a lot of people who are coming in. In fact, we can walk over here, you can

see there's more people as we move along. This obviously Becky doesn't really say anything about what the turnout is, this is one polling station

in a country of more than 80 million.

We in, in total, we visited three polling stations in Tehran. And we did see crowds that were smaller, but we still did see some people lining up in

order to cast their ballots. So, there are certainly people who are participating in this election. But it doesn't seem to be as many as we

saw, for instance, in 2017. In fact, I would compare this more to the parliamentary election that we saw at the beginning of 2020, where there

were also fewer people taking part. You do see that there is definitely less enthusiasm, especially among voters who would normally support the


And there's obviously two reasons for that. I think one reason you mentioned is a lot of the disqualifications. But you do also feel a sort of

groundswell in somewhat disappointment in the Rouhani administration, also among many moderates, as well, a lot of them obviously, very unhappy about

the economic situation here in this country. And while they understand that, of course, a lot of that has to do with the sanctions that were

levied by the Trump administration.

I think many also believe that Hassan Rouhani's government, in the end, didn't manage to make the economic situation here in this country better

for a lot of people, or at least stabilize it for a lot of people. And so, a lot of those voters most probably staying at home. But you can see there

are still a good deal of people who are coming out here to the polls who are casting their ballot, and we're waiting to see what the actual turnout

is going to be. And turnout, of course, is key.

And that's one of the reasons why the Supreme Leader said that he's urging people to come out and cast their ballots because he believes that a high

voter turnout is something that strengthens the system of the Islamic Republic as a whole, Becky.

ANDERSON: Many calling this less than election and more a selection. Ebrahim Raisi, we detailed just earlier on, it did, at least until today

seemed like a foregone conclusion that he would win this. He does, though, have a significant competitor. As one he is a bit of a dark horse in

Abdolnaser Hemmati. What do we know about him?

PLEITGEN: Well, Abdolnaser Hemmati it really is an interesting one. And you're absolutely right. It is some of a dark horse candidate. We could

again have a little more of a look here at folks voting because obviously it's always quite interesting to see I think there are folks are sort of

selecting the candidates from a list, by the way.

So, Abdolnaser Hemmati is someone who is really an unknown to many people here in Iran. Until very recently, he's a former central banker. He's also

very much a moderate. And it's quite interesting because our crew actually spoke to Mr. Hemmati, just a couple of days ago. And he said that if

things, for instance, work out with the Iran nuclear agreement, if it gets back on track, he would have no problem if he were president. But actually

speaking to the United States, even speaking to us, President Biden, that was one of the things that he said that's something that he would think

about doing.

He also says that he wants to run on much more of an economic platform, the big difference that you see in the two main candidates, Mr. Hemmati and Mr.

Raisi really isn't how they want to handle the economy. Mr. Raisi says that he wants a what's called a resistance economy where he wants to make the

economy autonomous, have any sort of outside forces to keep it strong in case there are more sanctions, whereas Mr. Hemmati is much more outward

looking, and would want to get foreign investment here into this country. Like, for instance, the Rouhani administration tried as well.

So some big differences there. Mr. Hemmati, he wasn't polling very high in any of the polls leading up to the elections. But one of the things that he

told our crew was that he believes was so many voters, still unsure of whether they want to go to the polls, as we've been reporting, just now, he

believed that maybe he could mobilize some of them and get them to vote for him. And he was hoping maybe pull off a surprise, again, we'll have to wait

a couple of hours and wait and see what happens.

But certainly someone who became a candidate became very, very interesting in the sort of final days leading up to the election, Becky.

ANDERSON: You spoke earlier to a very senior player in Iran. What did you learn? What's his view?

PLEITGEN: Yes. So I spoke to actually to Ali Shamkhani, who's the head of Iran's National -- Supreme National Security Council. He's one of the most

senior people really here in the state, very close to Iran Supreme Leader, very much involved, of course, obviously, in the security of Iran and

everything that has to do with both inward and outward. And I asked him, you know, with everybody speaking about Ebrahim Raisi was probably winning

this election. What would a more conservative government mean for relations with the United States but specifically also for the future of the Iran

nuclear agreement, because of course, the negotiations about saving that agreement have not finished yet.


Let's listen in to what he had to say.


ALI SHAMKHANI, HEAD OF IRANIAN SUPREME NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL (through translation): The topic of Iran-U.S. relations has always been a topic

beyond one single branch of government. And all the branches have appointment. With the JCPOA from which the U.S. under Trump, unfortunately

withdrew due to wrong analysis, and started the maximum pressure campaign. Now, the new U.S. officials have decided to return to the JCPOA. And we

have always been seeking a good agreement.

No one ever rejected such a thing at any level. It was the United States which withdrew from it. Thus, this patch will continue and the issue of

U.S.-Iran relation and the JCPOA is bigger than a single branch of government. I as an individual, feel there will be a brighter future in

these issues.


PLEITGEN: So there you have it, it seems as though Iran is possibly in for big political changes, Becky, but some things like for instance, the

fundamental foreign policy was probably will stay the same, Becky.

ANDERSON: Fred Pleitgen is in Tehran for you. Well Fred was in Iran at the last elections, as we've been discussing in 2017. And so was I in that very

same place that Fred is now.

And remember, then the Iran nuclear deal was newly minted, and things were looking well, the mood was more positive and receptive. Let's be quite

frank. And so, the vote then felt of great magnitude. Now I reported from a polling booth under this magnificent painted ceiling, giving a real sense

of Iran's history. Let's just get back to the importance of that election, as I reported back then.


ANDERSON (on-camera): Right here, Iran, what the people are all around me decide here in this room, and at these 63,000 polling stations around the

country will be felt in Washington, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and many other places.


ANDERSON: Where is perhaps a deep sense of philosophical irony here, a devastating sort of deja vu if you will.

Take a look at this, this is Iran's former leader. Sometime back of course, the shot here addressing his country's parliament, the Islamic Republic of

Iran came about in revolution against his rule. The Shah's grip on the country was ironclad, but he wants to give an illusion of choice. So, as an

Iranian historian pointed out earlier, he made a single party in 1975 to give the theater of democratic expression and choice into some that sounds

all too familiar.

It looks like it is happening again virtually all serious contenders for this presidency have been barred from the race. And that is rattle many in

the capital. Foreign Affairs Magazine reports, The Guardian Council's decision to qualify -- disqualify many established political heavyweights

shocked Tehran's political elite.

Well my guest next guest is Middle East scholar, and foreign policy advisor, Vali Nasr. He joins us now with insight and how Iran's lightly new

hardline leader may impact Iran's struggling economy, the nuclear deal is whether, as well as other rocky politics, both domestically and


And thanks for joining us. Big day. You know, one wishes, that this was for Iranians both at home and abroad, a more competitive lineup. I've spoken to

many in the diaspora and at home who say they won't vote, because they simply don't feel like they have any agency any longer in what is going on.

And I have to caveat this by saying everybody I've spoken to just in the run up is under the age of 40. Does that surprise you?

VALI NASR, PROFESSOR, SCHOOL OF ADVANCED INTL. STUDIES, JOHNS HOPKIN UNIV.: No, it doesn't. Because within Iran, not voting has been a very strong.

It's sort of a push by the population who's disgruntled with the regime, with the government of Rouhani, and in a way wants to tell the Iranian

leadership that if you don't care about us, we're not going to give you legitimacy. If you're just going to grab authority, then we're not going to

give you the cloak of legitimacy that you need for it.

Although in the past few days, there has been intense debate about what might be the consequences of a boycott. And there seems to be that at least

the projections are that more people are going to participate than was the case let's say projections were about two weeks ago, but it's not going to

reach anywhere near where we saw in the past two elections. And perhaps it will be the lowest turnout of the Islamic Republic's presidential elections

from the outset. In other words, below 50%.


ANDERSON: I had this conversation earlier, with one Iranian who is living outside of the country who was on the streets back in 2009. Using his

voice, he wanted to see change. This time, he will not vote in the country that he is living in, as I say, you know, he's one of those who told me,

they simply don't feel like they have any involvement or opportunity to help change things on the ground in Iran. And we were discussing earlier

and I want to put this to you, whether this is, you know, given this very uncompetitive lineup, whether this really is the end of an era, as far as

Iran is concerned.

NASR: It is an end of an era, for many reasons, because the Islamic Republic is on the verge of essentially major structural changes. I would

call it that it's entering sort of a third Islamic Republic based. Ayatollah Khomeini will likely pass during the term of the next president,

there is talk of structural changes to the Constitution, perhaps moving towards a parliamentary system. There is a sense in Iran that after the

Trump experience that the country has to put national security before everything else. A national security, essentially, for them means

uniformity at the top in Iran.

And so, yes, the country is going through a very critical period, and also the economic shock of maximum pressure has changed the lay of the land in

Iran. But it's also important to know that not every voter in Iran is motivated by just a political dimension of this. There are those who are

taking pragmatically about, you know, the daily issues. And your correspondent was correct, there is actual disaffection with moderate in

terms of just management of the country. And there is a sense that, let's say, if Mr. Hemmati became president, he probably will not be able to get a

single minister approved by the current Iranian parliament.

I mean, whatever he says on the campaign trail, his will be a failed presidency from day one. And that's also a dynamic in the conversation of

whether people would participate, or would not participate and what they expect from Mr. Raisi versus his opponent.

ANDERSON: Just how damaged is the middle class? And what would if Raisi win mean for Iranians in Iran, and indeed, the country's relations with the

rest of the world.

NASR: So the Iranian middle class is seriously damaged. I mean, the expectation was that if the nuclear deal had survived, Iran's own analysis

was that the size of its middle class could have grown by as much as 35%, over a 10-year period. And instead, the middle class has actually shrunk

about 10% of the middle class has now fallen below poverty line. And those who are above the poverty line barely have any disposable income beyond

just basic survival. So, there is that sense of frustration, of pessimism, of depression among the middle classes, which is also playing out in terms

of the voting.

But, you know, the main problem I see with Mr. Raisi aside from his politics and how hardline it is, is that he hasn't shown even in debates

I've watched any degree of fundamental knowledge about governance and international affairs is very much a dilettante. Somebody who hasn't

traveled outside, who hasn't really spent much in government, who really doesn't understand the depth of economic management. It doesn't understand

foreign affairs, and he's not surrounded by it -- by a group of, let's say, advisors who would compensate with it.

So this will be a learning on the job much as we saw with President Ahmadinejad in the first term of his office, and Iran really cannot afford

that, they cannot afford a president who doesn't understand the fundamentals of macroeconomics --


NASR: -- microeconomics, or a president who doesn't understand how you conduct diplomacy has never done so, has never sat with a foreign leader,

unlike Mr. Rouhani for instance who came to the office with that experience.

ANDERSON: Vali Nasr, Washington will be watching what is going on in Iran today as well others in capitals around the region that I am in, in the

Gulf and beyond. What's the message?

NASR: Well, the message is that Iran is moving in a much more hardline direction. I mean, people who are coming to the country power are the ones

who are opposed to not only JCPOA but were opposed to Iran getting closer to the west anchoring his future in trade with Europe and the U.S. Favor

closer ties to Russia and China, favor self-reliance. And they will always -- obviously be much more difficult to find common ground with.


I think Washington had already expected all the way back in January that Mr. Raisi or someone like him will be president. And the Vienna talks don't

leave look like they will conclude before the vote is done. So they're no longer have a bearing on the outcome. I think people are -- in Washington

are hoping at least that because the Vienna talks, demands of Iran some really, really hard decisions that given that is a hardliner, that he may

be in a better position to sell those decisions to the Iranian Parliament than a moderate board.

And there's a quality of Nixon going to China here. I'm not saying it's going to play out. But the silver lining might be that, that if he is going

to embrace the nuclear deal, as he said he would, that he will face less of a resistance in the conservative campaign in the parliament than let's say

Mr. Hemmati would if he were the one who would present.

ANDERSON: Vali Nasr, your analysis and insight as ever, extremely valuable as we continue to watch events unfolding there in Iran. Sir, thank you.

Well, Israel will be watching the election in Iran very closely as it battles another of what it sees as its enemies militants in Gaza. For the

second time this week, Israeli warplanes struck the region. Israel said it targeted Hamas military sites after incendiary balloons launched this week

from Gaza caused fires in Israel. Militants have been sending billions into Israel for years with similar response.

However, the Israeli military's response is the first since the new prime minister was sworn in. Israeli officials say its message to Hamas in any

provocation will be met with force.

But Israel also facing criticism for not providing vaccines to Gaza and the West Bank. But now, Israel says it will transfer at least a million doses

to the Palestinian Authority. Israeli government says the Pfizer vaccines are surplus and will expire soon. As part of the arrangement a ship's -- a

shipment of Pfizer vaccines intended for the PA later in the year will now be delivered to Israel instead.

Up next, Europe has a message for U.S. travelers. Pack your bags, it's time to come back. A live report on the latest move back to normalcy is just


Plus, China pause a head way ahead in its COVID vaccination program, how it is managed to administer almost a billion doses while the rest of the world

lags behind. And --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: what happens to a community, what happens to humanity when women are front and center?


ANDERSON: A little later in the show, I speak to the UAE minister running an expo about the importance of a new women's pavilion.



ANDERSON: Well, Europeans trying to tiptoe back to normality, albeit very cautiously but you wouldn't know it from this, tens of thousands of fans in

Budapest this week, watching Portugal trounce Hungary three nil during the UEFA Euro 2020 championship. It was a group F match and you can see there,

no social distancing and it is also hard. It has to be said to spot any masks at all.

We're getting back to normal at superspeed. The European Union is reopening its borders to travelers from the U.S. whether or not they've been

vaccinated. The move seen as an attempt to save the summer tourism industry, many Americans eager to travel in Europe, or quite frankly once

their dollars. After all, Western Europe was the most visited European region by U.S. tourists in 2019. With 12 million trips in that last pre

pandemic year.

Well the UK there hasn't been invited back to the party not yet because of the spread of the Delta variant. For more on that and the bigger COVID

travel pitch.

Let's connect you to London and to CNN's Anna Stewart. Anna, what's going on?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well with little hope of a summer holiday for me given I'm in the UK and has not been added to any real lists so far. We

can bit dream Becky of a nice trip to the EU, but this is the reality for people in multiple countries that have been added to the EUs white list

today and that includes America. So vaccinated or not the travel ban has been lifted people can travel into the EU. And this as you say is really

important Europe meets tourists particularly needs American tourists, there was some of the highest spending tourists out there. They were about 5% of

all international arrivals pre pandemic.

But before everyone starts packing their bags and heading to the Algarve, do read the Terms and Conditions because although the EU is reopening in

terms of the travel ban, each country will have a different set of requirements that you have to meet. Also, Becky for airlines, well, this is

a really important step. It's really only a half way recovery. And that is because this isn't reciprocated. So, although Americans are going to be

welcome in Europe for the summer holidays. Currently, Europeans not welcome in the U.S. Becky.

ANDERSON: And what is the situation briefly with regard this Delta variant in the UK. Things have been going so well.

STEWART: Things have been going so with the vaccination rollout. It still is but the whole country isn't vaccinated. Latest data out today shows that

99% of all new cases are now the Delta varies. So that's a major concern, one of the reasons why the UK is not on the EUs list, I think. Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. Thank you, Anna. Anna Stewart's in the house for you.

While the rest of the world has been struggling with logistical hurdles, drug shortages and a lack of personnel to deliver COVID vaccines, China is

about to hit 1 billion doses. The program's scale and speed, unrivaled by any other country in the world and China had a slow start hitting 1 million

doses just at the end of March, two weeks after the U.S. for example.

Well stay with us next hour, will tell you how China is tackling this massive undertaking and how it's pulled so far ahead of the rest of the

world. We'll be live from Hong Kong with CNN's Ivan Watson.

After years of investigating some of the world's most vile atrocities the International Criminal Courts Fatou Bensouda has finished her term as its

top prosecutor.


FATOU BENSOUDA, PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURTS: I have done my best. It is not work that that is completed, it will never be completed, as

long as unfortunately these conflicts continue to happen.


ANDERSON: We'll hear what she says about ongoing probes into alleged war crimes and how she feels about being targeted herself by the Trump


And we'll speak to one of the most important voices in global trade. The director general of the World Trade Organization is live on "Connect The

World." We'll ask her everything about vaccine inequality to what she thinks of the Biden era so far.



KARIM KHAN, ICC CHIEF PROSECUTOR: In this 21st century, medieval crimes are being committed by modern people. But through the other prism through the

other lens, this court and the whole Rome Statute Architecture represents in my view, a promise to the future that tomorrow need not be as bleak as

sorrowful as yesterday.


ANDERSON: That is the International Criminal Court swearing in its new top prosecutor Karim Khan. He'll take on a string of ongoing investigations

including alleged war crimes in the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts, Philippines war on drugs, Afghanistan, and beyond. These contentious probes

was started by his predecessor, Fatou Bensouda, her nine-year term as the ICC chief prosecutor ended this week, capping off a very tough run by this

remarkable woman who fearlessly expanded the court's reach. When I caught up with her a short time ago and I began by asking her for her thoughts on

her legacy.


FATOU BENSOUDA, FMR. ICC CHIEF PROSECUTOR: I'm leaving a time in which I feel satisfied that what I was elected by over 100 countries to do to

occupy the mandate I was given. I believe that I am quite satisfied. I have done my best. It is not work that is completed, it will never be completed

as long as unfortunately these conflicts continue to happen. But what I have been confronted with during my term, I have given it my best.

ANDERSON: You were personally targeted by the Donald Trump administration over the ICCs investigation into alleged war crimes by the U.S. and its

allies in Afghanistan and you were hit with sanctions, your U.S. assets frozen, you were placed under a travel ban. Secretary of State Antony

Blinken is since called those sanctions placed on you inappropriate and ineffective.

Looking back, how did it feel both personally and professionally to see the U.S. government blatantly undermining and attacking international law?

BENSOUDA: I think this was indeed a red line that have been crossed. And I'm not talking about -- I'm not saying this because it's Fatou Bensouda,

who has been sanctioned. It's because the prosecutor of an International Criminal Court, the only International Criminal Court has been sanctioned

for doing their legitimate work.

The Biden administration has decided to lift those sanctions which we find very helpful because indeed, both at the professional and the personal

level this has impacted the institution and impacted me personally. However, it is not something that has prevented me from cutting by book or

prevented my team from carrying on with our work.


ANDERSON: During conflict between Israel and Gaza several high rise buildings in Gaza City targeted by Israeli airstrikes, including the

building which housed media organizations such as Al Jazeera and the AP. The U.N. reporting that six hospitals, nine healthcare centers, and water

desalination plant were also damaged, and the U.N. Human Rights chief says there's been no evidence to support Israel's claims the buildings were

bombed -- and that were bombed in Gaza where hosting armed groups are being used for military purposes. You said you were closely monitoring the

situation as it was unfolding. Do you think Israel's bombardment of these civilian structures within Gaza violates international law?

BENSOUDA: Well, certainly all this requires more legal analysis. And that also is dependent on getting all the information that we need. Because

there are issues of proportion -- proportionality, issues of distinction, which we have to look at very, very closely. The investigations has opened,

and my office will take into account and is monitoring very closely, especially the recent escalation that happened 11 days war, I think the

media calls it now, which we did -- I did say that it is part of those incidents that we will be looking at very, very closely.

ANDERSON: CNN has reported extensively on Ethiopia's Tigray crisis, where possible crimes against humanity, such as genocide and famine are being

documented by locals and by aid organizations. The war crime of starvation can be applied in the context of civil wars. And NGOs have spoken out

against the governments of both Eritrea and Ethiopia for making it nearly impossible for them to deliver food to vulnerable people throughout the

Tigray region, Ethiopia and Eritrea and not ICC members. Is there any way the court can take this matter up?

BENSOUDA: Both Ethiopia and Eritrea are not part of the Rome Statute. They are not part of the ICC family. Therefore, we do not have jurisdiction to

enter into that unfortunate situation that is hold -- unfolding there. Unless there has been, for example, a referral by the U.N. Security Council

asking the ICCs intervention as they did for Sudan, and also as they did for Libya. That would have made it a possibility or if Eritrea or Ethiopia

were to make a declaration, accepting the jurisdiction of the ICC. And I think that both scenarios are unlikely to happen at the moment.

ANDERSON: You've called for an investigation into suspected crimes against humanity committed by authorities in the Philippines during President

Duterte's 2018 war on drugs. So official data says the crackdown caused 6,000 deaths, international rights groups say the figure could be much

higher. Now, the Philippines no longer a member of the ICC but you've said the court has authorization to investigate because these crimes were

committed before it withdrew its membership. How difficult will it be for the ICC to conduct this investigation without the support of the Philippine


BENSOUDA: Well, this will not be the first time that we will have such challenges as an office as the prosecutor's office to investigate into

situations where the government in place has categorically refused or rejected to cooperate with the ICC. That doesn't mean that ICC just folds

and then and then leaves. No, we have to find ways and we have done this in the past. An example that comes to mind is the Sudan situation therefore,

in which we have continued our investigations without cooperation at all from Sudan, but which we were able to do and we were able to bring warrants

of arrest against at least five individuals in that situation.

ANDERSON: Do you feel more or less optimistic about the application of international law?

BENSOUDA: I do. I will say that I do. I am one that really believed that everyone deserves the protective embrace of the law. I believe in that. And

even though recently in recent years, international criminal law and multilateralism has received a lot of pushback. I do believe that those of

us, those who still believe that just plays a critical role for stability in society, for security, for development, and who continue to champion

this, I do believe that in the end, we are going to win.



ANDERSON: Fatou Bensouda speaking to me earlier this week, the outgoing chief prosecutor at the ICC.

We'll take a very short break, we'll be right back.


ANDERSON: Well tonight hits on a rivalry match like no other in just hours from now. Scotland will take on England in the Euros at the iconic Wembley.

The Scottish fans certainly excited for it.

No wonder they're so happy. It will be the country's first appearance in a major tournament since 1998. World Sports Amanda Davies joining me now from

London. I remember the atmosphere in London in 1977. I was there with my dad. It was just after the match Scotland won two-one. And boy, did those

Scots -- Scottish fans celebrate. And what's the atmosphere going to be like tonight?

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Becky, I have to tell you for the first time in such a long time that such a sense of occasion here in London and

on the tube on the way home last night you could hear football fans chanting which is a noise we haven't been allowed because fans haven't been

allowed to be together for the last 18 months. It's such a sense of excitement --


DAVIES: -- anticipation for me, which is just like Euro '96, you know, some days, I'm more than happy to do my job and be neutral. But today I'm very

much in my red and white. And I'm afraid I'm supporting the other side later this evening.

ANDERSON: Well, my dad was Scottish. So, you know, in out of a mark of respect, maybe, just maybe tonight I'll take a neutral stance. But I'm sort

of a, you know, I'm sort of with you on that one. All right, thank you. World Sports coming up. We'll be back after that.