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Haitian Police Search for New Suspects; E.U. Governments Struggle with Vaccine Hesitancy; Bush 43 on Afghanistan Exit; Cuba Protests; British PM Wants to Ban Racist Fans. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired July 14, 2021 - 10:00   ET





BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Liberte, egalite, fraternite -- and COVID: France's Bastille Day parade overshadowed by the possibility of

mandatory vaccines in France.



ANDERSON (voice-over): Who's behind the assassination of Haiti's president? More suspects are wanted. New details reveal what appears to be

a major conspiracy.

And arrested for asking for freedom. Cuba's president claims protesters were violent, not peaceful. We will be live in Havana.


ANDERSON: It's 10:00 am in Havana, 3:00 pm in London and 6:00 pm in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky Anderson. Welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD, today broadcast

from London. We begin this hour on Bastille Day with a look at freedom in the age of coronavirus 1.5 years into the pandemic.

What does it mean to be able to make choices in a time of changing rules and restrictions and stay safe?

The highly contagious Delta variant driving up COVID cases in Europe and in the U.S. and driving governments to distraction about how to contain it.

Infections in the Netherlands have skyrocketed by more than 500 percent over the last week. Still, we do have the vaccines but not everyone is

getting them or taking them.

So you have an incredibly challenging equation, vaccine lag plus a rampaging variant and now there is a warning. A U.S. health expert tells

CNN young children will pay the price if adults, certainly in the States, don't get vaccinated in high enough numbers to slow the spread of the


Here in England, where I am at the moment, face masks are coming off next Monday. But London says not so fast. You will still need to wear one on

public transport in the capital.

It's get tough time in Greece and Italy and in France, where health care workers must get both doses or they won't get paid.

Since it's Bastille Day, let's focus on France for a moment. The country that invented liberty, fraternity and equality, now it's warning its

citizens, get vaccinated or you may end up needing official approval to do the things that you love.

They seem to be listening. People in France clamoring now to get their COVID shots. All of this against the backdrop of Bastille Day symbolism,

commemorating freedom after the storming of the Bastille prison during the French Revolution.

Let's kick off in Paris then. I'm connecting you to CNN's Melissa Bell.

Lots to cover, such a big day in France. Just explain what we know at this point.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the time being, the idea is the president Emmanuel Macron announced that at some point it may become --

they may need to consider mandatory vaccinations for all. But for now they are trying a different approach.

They want to avoid a repeat of last summer. Freedoms were regained. The virus continued to spread come the autumn. And another lockdown was due.

They want to come out of that cycle of lockdowns and freedom lockdowns. So they are saying we really need people to get vaccinated. They need to move

beyond this wall of vaccine hesitancy.

And French authorities for a while, having fought that problem of supplies, are trying to convince those that haven't rushed to get vaccinated that

they need to do so. What they announced was a couple things.

First of all, that from August, places like this, restaurants, where there are cafes and terraces and theaters, anything you might enjoy doing, you

have to show your COVID pass.

It's a pass that shows you to be vaccinated or PCR negative. But from this fall, PCR tests that have been free in France, you will have to pay for.

Hence that rush for people to get vaccinated.

We saw that app that allows you to book medical appointments overrun in the course of the 20 hours after Macron made those announcements, 1.7 million

appointments booked.


BELL: And it shows when people realize it's going to start costing them to get into the places they enjoy going or to get vaccinated, that they prefer

vaccinations. It shows the French government made the announcement to focus the minds.

For now, the idea they would make vaccinations mandatory for all is a threat. It's something that looms in the background. For now, they are

trying to convince people that, the restaurants are open and if you want to be in them, you're going to show you're vaccinated or you're going to be

paying for your CCR test.

That seems to have encouraged a bunch of people to consider vaccinations.

ANDERSON: That's the story out of Paris. Thank you.

And we move on to Haiti at this point, where police are looking for 10 new suspects in the assassination of the president Jovenel Moise. For the first

time, Haitian citizens are implicated.

One new suspect is a former Haitian senator. Police have 39 suspects; most of those under arrest are foreign nationals from Colombia but at least

three are U.S. citizens. And we are learning more about one of them, allegedly a main player in the plot. Matt Rivers connecting us now from

Port-au-Prince, where's he's been tracking developments in the assassination from the very start.

Matt, what do you have?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We have been trying to learn more and more about Christian Emmanuel Sanon, the 63-year-old American

citizen, that really so far has been the only central figure presented by authorities, someone who allegedly recruited and organized these

mercenaries here.

We did some digging into his past and also into his life here in Haiti. Let's show you what we found.


RIVERS (voice-over): "This site has been sealed by the Port-au-Prince magistrate," reads the note on the door of the medical NGO, the compound

where authorities say Christian Emmanuel Sanon, an American citizen, helped orchestrate the assassination of Haiti's President Jovenel Moise.

When police cars descended to arrest Sanon over the weekend, they found him at the house just across the street from the NGO, along with lots of

ammunition, holsters and shooting targets. Authorities say he helped recruit and organize the 26 Colombians and two Americans they believe

carried out the killing.

RIVERS: We've spoken to several neighbors now who were too nervous to go on camera with us but tell us that the amount of activity at this compound

over the last month or two really started to increase.

And interestingly, they say they saw men going from that compound to this one, which is where Sanon was arrested. They said all of the men were

foreigners that were "muscular like bodyguards," sometimes with camouflage pants.

There's no way to know for sure if those same men are among these suspects, suspects that Sanon is claiming to have never met. In police interviews, he

is arguing he is innocent, according to a source directly involved in the investigation. CNN spoke to that source over the phone and agreed to

conceal his identity.

"Sanon said he doesn't know anything about the assassination," said our source. "He said he's a pastor. His wife and children live abroad but he's

been in the country for about a month. He says he didn't know the ammunition was in the house. This is what he said since the first day."

Sanon appears to split his time between South Florida and Haiti and has been involved for years in medical charity work. He's also been a longtime

critic of the Haitian government, saying this in a YouTube video from 2011.



Nowhere to be found.

You know why?

Because they're corrupt.


RIVERS: Sanon not the only American allegedly playing a key role in the assassination. Two more Americans seen here, James Solange and Joseph

Vincent, have been detained in Haiti as suspects.

And CNN is also reporting that several other suspects in the assassination have direct ties to U.S. law enforcement as informants. The DEA has

confirmed at least one of them worked for them in the past as an informant.

The night of the assassination you can even hear a suspect shout he was working for the DEA, though U.S. officials have repeatedly said that was a


And the U.S. doesn't just have connections to the crime, but to its aftermath. Haitians have been showing up at the U.S. embassy in Port-au-

Prince, asking for visas. Some are desperate to leave an island, where poverty, violence and corruption are chronic; the assassination, just the

final straw.


RIVERS: So there will likely continue to be more connections to the United States as this investigation goes forward.

But like you said off the top, we're now hearing more about these Haitian citizens that are involved as suspects. Now up until this point, it had

really just been foreign nationals implicated. Now it's more Haitian nationals implicated, at least 10 so far, three of which were publicly

named by authorities here in Port-au-Prince.

They are being accused of murder, attempted murder and armed robbery, those three of the 10.


RIVERS: All 10 remain on the loose. And later on today, we know that three central figures in the president's security detail, in the security

apparatus that surrounded the president before he died, they have been called to answer questions from prosecutors.

We're going to be interested to see if they actually show up for that, what is said and what comes out after those questions take place. But this

investigation very much ongoing at this point.

ANDERSON: Absolutely. The latest developments there on the ground. Matt, thank you.

The Taliban are denying they executed 22 Afghan armed forces commanders who had surrendered to them. A warning, what you are about to see, you may find



ANDERSON (voice-over): They are denying, even though the killings were caught on graphic video. It happened last month near Afghanistan's border.

The Afghan defense ministry calls the executions of the unarmed men a war crime and says it is not the first time the Taliban have executed soldiers

and civilians.


ANDERSON: An Afghan family knows the misery of that all too well. My colleague, CNN's Anna Coren, now shares their story.


ANNA COREN, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Among the wildflowers and thistles, a sacred place in the heart of Kabul. The distant

sounds of the city blocked out by the high walled compound.

Mohamad Kaliyeri (ph) and his son walk through the gates. Waiting for them, three mounds of earth only a month old. They pick up rocks and tap on the

gravestones, telling the souls, "I am here and praying for you."

Mohamad's world was shattered last month when his wife and two daughters were killed in a car bomb attack. As Hazaras, an ethnic minority persecuted

by the Taliban and other insurgent groups, they have always been the target of terror.

"When I heard that, I didn't know the sky and I didn't know the land," he said. "Everything went dark on me."

However, his 23 year-old daughter Meena, a news anchor at a local TV station, had been receiving death threats for months. Her blossoming career

and appearance on radio and television a repudiation to the Taliban.

"Since it happened, I really hate this country. But what can I do? I see the future of this country is finished. There is no future."

Over the last 20 years, the one industry where Afghan women have thrived is the media. Female anchors present the news alongside their male colleagues,

an enormous step forward in this culturally conservative country.

But it hasn't been without sacrifice. The Committee to Protect Journalists says at least 53 journalists have been murdered in Afghanistan since 1992.

Local groups say the true number is more than double.

NAJIB SHARFI, AFGHAN JOURNALISTS SAFETY COMMITTEE: We earned our press freedom at a very, very significant cost. I don't think any other country

has sacrificed as many journalists as Afghanistan has.

COREN (voice-over): But the rise of an emboldened Taliban is now an existential threat to many Afghans, including local journalists, who know,

if the militants come to power, they will not be spared.

COREN: While the targeted killings and death threats have become commonplace here in Afghanistan, it's the deteriorating security situation

that's unnerving many in the media industry. But despite these fears, there's a defiance, particularly among female journalists, who say they

will not be silenced.

COREN (voice-over): Among them is Meena's (ph) best friend and colleague, 23 year-old Zahara Sediqui (ph). She, too, has received threats. And while

she can't remember life under Taliban rule, this young woman refuses to be terrorized into submission.

"We're Afghans and we will continue to do our job," she tells me.

"The goals that Meena (ph) had in raising our people's voice, I want to continue that for Meena."

A voice pleading to the world to never abandon the freedoms this country has fought too hard to achieve -- Anna Coren, CNN, Kabul.


ANDERSON: U.S. troops went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks in 2001 at the orders of the then U.S. president George W. Bush. Well, 20 years

later, they are set to be out of the country entirely this summer. The former U.S. president says he thinks the withdrawal will have disastrous



GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sadly, I'm afraid Afghan women and girls are going to suffer unspeakable harm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a mistake to withdraw?

BUSH: You know, I think it is, yes, I think -- because I think the consequences are going to be unbelievably bad.


BUSH: And I'm sad. I spent -- Laura and I spent a lot of time with Afghan women. And they are scared. And I think about all the interpreters and

people that helped, not only U.S. troops but NATO troops. And there just -- it seems like they're just going to be left behind to be slaughtered by

these very brutal people. And it breaks my heart.


ANDERSON: Former U.S. president George W. Bush.

The Cuban government denying it's committing human rights abuses as it cracks down on protests. Ahead on the show, the video and the witness

accounts that are sounding the alarm.

Plus we speak with Cuban American music legend Emilio Estefan on the music video he released and its message of hope for the island nation.

And in the next hour of CONNECT THE WORLD, Lebanon at breaking point. What pushed the country once known as the Switzerland of the Middle East to its

knees. We bring you a live report in what is our regular reporting on the crisis there from Beirut.




ANDERSON: At least one person killed, dozens arrested or missing. The Cuban government is cracking down on those who criticize it.

After Sunday's massive protest, many social media sites and messaging platforms have been shut down. Still, videos like these are being shared

widely. These are of state security forces allegedly beating demonstrators.

CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of these videos. They were posted by social media users, who says they showed protests in Cuba. The Cuban

government says protesters were violent and government security forces are not committing human rights abuses.

We have also learned via state media that as these protests broke out at the weekend, Raul Castro, the former president, took part in a high-level

government meeting. The U.S. State Department is calling for Cuba to restore internet access.

But despite restrictions on access to the web, videos of the protests and clashes with police are still appearing online. Patrick Oppmann has more

from Havana.


PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Following wide-scale protests, the likes of which have never been seen before in Cuba, police on

the island are cracking down, according to one activist group.

More than 100 people have been arrested or are missing. Cuba's president said the protesters were the violent ones and that government security

forces are not committing human rights abuses.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking Spanish).

OPPMANN (voice-over): "Where are the murdered Cubans? Where is the repression? Where are disappeared people in Cuba?"

But outside this police station in Havana, a group of mostly women search for relatives, who are now missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking Spanish).

"Three officers jumped on him, they threw him against the floor," Jacqueline (ph) says. "They broke his jaw, hurt his wrist and I don't know

where he is."

Despite the Communist run government's attempt at blocking internet and mobile service as a way to stop protesters from communicating, videos of

protests and crackdowns continue to pop up across social media.

Many shared by exiles and relatives in Florida, including Republican Senator Marco Rubio, who tweeted out the Cuban blogger's live TV interview

being interrupted by state security.

"Security is outside my house," she says. "I have to go."

CNN could not independently confirm the authenticity of these videos.

Many who have protested have said they were exhausted by Cuba's chronic shortages. The government blames the lack of food and medicine on the U.S.

trade sanctions. But Cuban exiles say it's Cuba's own crushing restrictions on private industry that have destroyed the island's economy.

GLORIA ESTEFAN, SINGER: The embargo that needs to end is the embargo that the Cuban government has on its people. They have the goods and they don't

give it to them. It's a very difficult situation.

OPPMANN (voice-over): Exiles in Miami are also making their voices heard, many marching on a busy South Florida highway this afternoon, while others

are hoping to take a flotilla of boats carrying humanitarian supplies to Cuba, an offer the Cuban government has already rejected, saying the aid is

just a pretext to create more insurrection on the island -- Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.


ANDERSON: Before the anti-government demonstrations in Cuba, hundreds of people blocked a highway in Miami in Florida. That's the part of the Cuban

exile community in the United States.

My next guest says protesters are bringing light to Cuba and that it is about time. Cuban American Grammy award-winning producer and songwriter,

Emilio Estefan, is joining me.

It's good to have you, sir. Despite the government's best efforts to prevent these videos being seen, we are seeing images of demonstrators and

of protesters being beaten by police. These are widely circulating on social media. Just describe how you are feeling about the scenes that we

are witnessing.

EMILIO ESTEFAN, GRAMMY AWARD-WINNING PRODUCER AND SONGWRITER: Well, definitely it's a historical moment and we really appreciate you putting

this (INAUDIBLE) all over the world. I think the worst enemy of Cuba right now is technology.

We have the leverage to show all these images that's been happening for over 60 years. We're 90 miles away from the United States. Last night, I

saw an image that was devastating. This has been happening for so many years. And people have been disappeared. People, how they kill people and

how they are being abused, the power of the dictator.

So I think this is an incredible moment. We asked for help, for support from anybody who loves freedom, to be sure at least to post these images

and tell the people. And I especially hope that we'll get a message from the President of the United States, asking for free election and to -- I

mean, we want this to do it -- to do it right.

We want to probably have like free elections. But you know something, when you talk to the dictators, they way they don't listen, they say historical


Sixty years, people have been waiting for this moment and we are pulling for it to make a difference.

ANDERSON: Yes, it's fascinating that you say that social media is the government's biggest enemy at present. Social media is out there. We know

it can be used in a such a devastating way.

We also know that social media can be for good. And I hear what you're saying, as a Cuban American, that you feel that social media has really

provided a proper insight into what's going on.

I just wonder how sustainable you really believe this regime can be going forward. I hear what you're asking for.

But just how sustainable is it at this point?

E. ESTEFAN: Well, this is the first time people are outside and protesting. Right now, they are getting a lot of proof (ph) from Venezuela

who -- they are killing people. They are killing their supreme (ph) people. They are -- what they are doing is incredible.

But like I told you, people are getting to see some of the images, which is so important for Cuba. And right now, without the support of the United

States, at least they have a committee that goes to Cuba and tries to tell them to have free election, to make -- definitely it's time for a change.

And I think that feeling this right now because, you know, like I told you, right now, they called the internet. They are calling (INAUDIBLE). There

are people who will not be able to send images outside.

So now, probably today and tomorrow, it's going to be one of the worst days because they are going to be cracking down to be sure people stay home and

they're going to have police all over the place.


E. ESTEFAN: I hope the best way to -- thing that can happen is that the military which support the Cuban people understand that freedom is

incredible. We live in a country that's unbelievable. They will represent the United States and we -- living in freedom is an incredible thing. I

hope that we get some help, at least for to have a peaceful transition. But we need definitely help because this is the time to do it.

ANDERSON: The Cuban government accuses the U.S. of being culpable in waging its economic asphyxiation, I think they described it, on the


How culpable do you think the U.S. is at this point?

E. ESTEFAN: You know something, that's all a lie. If you go to Cuba and you're a tourist, you can go to a store and buy anything you want, like you

are here in one of the stores here in the United States.

What happens, they oppress people. They are good to tourists and they want to be sure they bring dollars to the place, to Cuba. The (INAUDIBLE) is an

excuse. We get -- they get things from all over the world, not only from the United States. They get it from Venezuela, they get it from Europe.

I think, like I told you, having this incredible moment, that people are risking their life and with all this technology, I think we will be able to

accomplish. I don't think we'll be able to hold it. It's going to be difficult without the support from so many countries in the world. And I

hope the United States and the president was in touch.

I worked with six different presidents of the United States. I produced a lot of events in the White House. I was happy that he put out a statement

supporting the Cuban people. But we need more. We need a little more to put the extra pressure, to be sure at least Cubans have the rights to have a

free election.

ANDERSON: What do you want Washington to do in the very short term?

This is your opportunity, sir, as we are broadcast around the world, to speak to other governments and provide a message.

So what is it at this point?

E. ESTEFAN: What is right for human rights. They should be calling and telling them to stop what they are doing to the people and try to see if

they have a peaceful transition, that people don't get killed.

But at having the president and a message from the United States definitely would give support to all of the countries to help us. And I hope -- it's

devastating what you see. Some of the images, how they're hitting on the common (ph) people and they -- I mean, in Cuba, they kill people. You never

get to see them back again.

I mean I -- so many people, so many dead. I asked him. He would be willing to at least get 20 of the prisoners, political prisoners, people that have

been having so much problems through the years. And we have no response. So I hope that he understands this is a window that we have, that it's

important for the world.

And by the way, this is not about Cuba, it's about Venezuela, it's about Nicaragua. If this happened in Cuba, we would be a role model for other

countries to have the rights to have free speech.

ANDERSON: With that, we're going to leave it there, sir. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on. I know our viewers around the world will be

delighted you gave us your time. So thank you and thank you for the work you do.

E. ESTEFAN: Thank you for the --


E. ESTEFAN: Bye-bye, thank you.

ANDERSON: When we come back, England's fight against racism in football reaches Parliament, where Boris Johnson now says racism online will keep

people away from matches. Details of what are the stiff consequences just announced -- coming up.

And next hour, Africa marks its worst week of the COVID pandemic so far. We speak with the World Health Organization regional director for Africa. Why

she says the worst is still yet to come.





ANDERSON: The British prime minister Boris Johnson says he is going to ban racist fans from attending English football matches. Facing stinging

criticism that he isn't doing enough to combat the racism that has cropped up in the wake of the loss of the Euro final.

He also told Parliament just a short time ago that he is putting pressure on social media companies to get rid of racist content on their platforms.


BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: Last night, I met representatives of Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram and made it absolutely clear

to them that we will legislate to address this problem, Mr. Speaker, in the online harms bill.

And unless they get hate and racism off their platforms, they will face fines amounting to 10 percent of their global revenues. We all know that

they have the technology to do it.


ANDERSON: The sites for one of those racist incidents has turned into a rallying point for anti-racists.


ANDERSON (voice-over): Gathering at mural of the English footballer, Marcus Rashford, on Tuesday, now that mural had been defaced with racist

graffiti after the Euro final -- he missed a penalty in that final -- but was restored by the original artist on Tuesday.

One of the leading voices against racism in sports is Shaka Hislop, a long- time goalie in the Premier League, who often encountered racism in his daily life. He's the president of Show Racism the Red Card, a charity

dedicated to educating people about this issue.

That organization put out a statement this week, saying, in no small part, "We need to make it clear that there's no room for racism or any form of

discrimination in our society.

"England players made that clear by taking the knee. Now it's time for us to all stand with them together, united against racism."

And he joins me now.

I remember your talent as a keeper. It's an absolute joy to have you on. I want our viewers to hear your individual story, if you will.

What was the background to you cofounding this group?

I want to set a context for this conversation.

SHAKA HISLOP, SHOW RACISM THE RED CARD: Certainly. Thank you for having me. Show Racism the Red Card started some 25 years ago. I just joined the

cast. I have been in conversation with the currency of Show Racism the Red Card around a lot work, anti-racism work he was doing in the Northeast.

As we were having these conversations, I was recently abused outside St. James' Park late one night, filling up my car with petrol.

A group of youths came walking on the hill outside the park, started shouting racist abuse at me. As they get closer, they recognized who I was,

started chanting my name, wanting to come over for autographs.

From 100 yards away, I was a Black man worthy of the most vile racist abuse; from 100 feet away, I was worthy of my name chanted and asked for

autographs. I think that spoke to the duality of who I was, a Black footballer in the northeast at the time.

And we use that story and that standing to start Show Racism the Red Card. And this year, proudly celebrating our 25th anniversary.

ANDERSON: And isn't that the point here, that 25 years later, we are still having this conversation because of the actions of a vile set of people?

Be those people in England, Britain or elsewhere, because much of this goes on on social media.


ANDERSON: And it doesn't actually have to come from people here. We are having this conversation still. That's shocking. But the work that you do

is massively important. Let's talk about what we are seeing in the very short term. The British prime minister Boris Johnson says he is going to

ban fans from attending English football matches.

Your response?

HISLOP: Racism within football has resulted in lifetime bans for fans for quite some time. So this isn't new. This isn't a significant shift in

policy that Boris Johnson is announcing. I have been very critical of the way he's handled racism around the game, racism in British society.

And this announcement, while it sounds good, it's nothing new. It has been a part of our football landscape for quite some time. What football

continues to call for is not just the introduction of these laws but for the firm implementation of these rules and regulations.

That's where I think a lot still needs to be done. And there needs to be significant addressing of.

ANDERSON: He's also told Parliament today -- and this is a discussion we know has been going on for some time -- he's told Parliament just a short

time ago he's putting pressure on social media companies to get rid of racist content on their platform.

Just putting pressure on social media companies is by no means enough. We know there's legislation from other countries, in Germany, for example, if

racist hate speech isn't removed from social media platforms within 24 hours, there's something like a 50 million euro fine for those social media


Is that where you want to see us and Europe headed at this point?

HISLOP: That's one of the areas I think that needs urgent addressing. While racism has been with us for far longer than we care to acknowledge

and probably will be with us for the foreseeable future, one of the areas that racism has (INAUDIBLE) is online.

And there needs to be significant addressing of that and hold social media companies to account while laws are introduced. And the enforcement of

those laws around what happens on social media.

While we're talking about football and we're talking about Black footballers in this moment, that also has to translate to the wider

community because so many of kids we work with at Show Racism the Red Card have been subject to similar abuse online. Hopefully, they will also feel

the protections that this moment calls for.

ANDERSON: What else do you want to see done?

HISLOP: There's a lot that can be done. As a community, we have to acknowledge the harm that slavery and colonialism has done and continues to

do in marginalizing Black communities. We have to stop politicizing the call for not just the recognizing of the equality of Black lives but

equality across the board.

As I often say, a rising tide lifts all boats. While this moment, that tide is around racism, the boat continues to lift is the equality of women, the

LGBTQ community, of all races, of all religions. That's what this moment calls for.

We have to stop politicizing that call for equality and, however it may come at the moment. And again, I am a firm believer in legislation. Until

that legislation directs personal behavior and from that directing of personal behavior, cultural shifts become, cultural shifts are found.

So we have to have this legislation introduced but more than just introduced, as I said before, it has to be a strict enforcing of that

legislation. That's where we see the greatest long-term benefit. None of this is a short-term fix. This is a conversation we will be having for

quite some time.

ANDERSON: Briefly, do you see some progress?

I want to leave this on a positive note, if we can.

HISLOP: As I said yesterday on this show, my glass is half full. We recognize progress in the last 25 years. And we have seen that in the

response to racism after the football game. The best of us always shines through.

ANDERSON: You always were and always will be a credit to yourself, the footballing community and to the rest of us. Shaka, thank you so much for

joining us with your very wise insight and thoughts on what is such an important topic. Thank you, sir.

We'll take a short break.

HISLOP: Thanks for having me.




ANDERSON: Some big names in tennis are skipping the upcoming Tokyo Olympics -- Rafa Nadal, Serena Williams, now Roger Federer joining the

list. He says he won't be representing Switzerland due to a knee problem.

But the world number one Ashleigh Barty is going fresh off her Wimbledon win.