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Macron and Putin Meet Amid Escalating Tensions; CNN's Stephen Collinson Asks: Does Putin have a Point?; Ottawa Declares State of Emergency Over Demonstrations; Macron: Hopes Talks with Putin Start "De- Escalation" Process; Bedouins Fear Displacement from Negev Desert; U.S.- Born Eileen Gu Carries China's Freestyle Ski Hopes. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired February 07, 2022 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN, Abu Dhabi. This is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Welcome back for those of you are just joining us wherever you are watching in the world, you are more
than welcome.
A few moments ago, we had the Presidents of France and Russia going into a potentially critical meeting on Ukraine .French President Emmanuel Macron,
saying he hoped it would start a process of de-escalation. Mr. Macron heads to Kyiv tomorrow with 100,000 Russian troops positioned near the Ukrainian
border.
The Kremlin earlier said it still wasn't seeing anything new in the responses to its security demands of the West. What you're looking at now
are satellite pictures said to show an advanced build up in Belarus. Well, Fred Pleitgen has years of experience reporting from Russia joining us
tonight from Berlin and Natasha Bertrand is with us from Washington.
She has new information on doubts within the Russian military about the efficacy of any full scale invasion of Ukraine. We'll get to you shortly
Natasha. Fred, let's just start with you. Because we did hear just about 15 minutes or so ago from the Presidents of Russia and France ahead of what is
a meeting that President Macron was sort of cautiously optimistic about although he did say he doesn't expect, "Spontaneous miracles". What's at
stake here?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there certainly is a lot at stake. And I do think that this meeting that's
happening today there in the Kremlin is one that is very important. It was quite interesting to see both Presidents Macron and Vladimir Putin sit
there at that opposite that that extremely long table and speaking to one another.
And while the atmosphere didn't seem as though it were one that was particularly friendly or jovial, I think we did hear Vladimir Putin say
that he did believe that this visit was extremely important. He did take note of the fact that the French President Emmanuel Macron was making a lot
of efforts to understand the Russian side, and to also work as he put it towards new security equilibrium in Europe.
So Vladimir Putin saying that he does believe that these efforts are very important. And they are efforts that he approves of as well. As you put it
Emmanuel Macron in the past couple of days, I think it's been quite interesting to see how he's been trying to sort of show a little bit of
optimism.
Now he says he believes a diplomatic solution is very much possible at this point in time and how before this meeting, when he arrived in Moscow, he
said that he believed that he was cautiously optimistic, even though he doesn't believe in spontaneous miracles, as you put it, so we can really
see how the French President is trying to put on that full court diplomatic press.
And as he's trying to do this, he's certainly trying to bring the United States on board with that effort, Xi spoke to President Biden, and then
really trying to lay out just how important that diplomacy is? I want to listen to one sound bite from Emmanuel Macron from that meeting that he
just had with Vladimir Putin let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: I have pretty much would be able to enter into detail on all those issues and begin to build a constructive
arrangement, which is mutually acceptable to Russia and the rest of Europe and which will help us to avoid war and create the greatest degree of
visibility for all concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So there you have it, Emmanuel Macron speaking about the fact that trying to construct this new order, as he put there trying to de-
escalate is a process that will take time and of course, that's something that was mirrored earlier on Becky by the Kremlin as well, as the Russians
were saying in the form of the Spokesman of the Kremlin Dmitry Peskov saying, look, don't expect any breakthroughs in this meeting. But they
still believe that it is very important Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is in Moscow and I just want to bring him in at this point. President Macron to many experts seems to be more sort of
carrot than stick. Does Russia stand a better chance of getting what it wants by negotiating with him as opposed to other Western leaders,
including of course, not least the United States?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I mean, I think part of that Becky, of course, begs the question what is it that Putin
really wants and what is he willing to walk away from the table with because he knows he's not going to get his maximal demands.
[11:05:00]
ROBERTSON: And if one of his aims is to sort of divide Europe, European nations, or at least divide members of NATO amongst themselves, then
starting his conversations in this way with President Macron is potentially an avenue for President Putin that he may think he can exploit, and try to
open up some - open up some small gaps that may exist.
You know, they've had three phone calls. They've been successful in sort of getting to this stage of conversations. Macron is certainly using language
that President Putin finds acceptable. They've called him a quality interlocutor here.
But you know, what has President Macron actually got available to put on the table to address what Russia continues to say are its core concerns
that the sort of constructive language we're hearing at the table here is shared concerns about European security. But that language doesn't actually
bridge the gap of Russia getting what it said that it wants?
And, and Macron, as far as we know, hasn't come with something that can bridge that gap. So you know, the language is there, President Putin
addressed President Macron in a very friendly way and thanked him for, you know, for taking the time to do this. But the concrete steps that are
available, we don't have knowledge on side of those at the moment, Becky.
ANDERSON: Which, of course leaves the possibility of an invasion by President Putin on the table of course, were at that table? It was a very
long table. Natasha, you have Intel that suggests at least reservations on any military action by Russian officials explain.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right. So U.S. intelligence officials have intercepted communications that suggest that
Russian military and intelligence officials are a bit wary of the kind of large scale operation that Vladimir Putin appears to have been planning
against Ukraine they have expressed doubts that they are prepared for such a large scale operation.
And they have been grumbling according to these intercepts, about the fact that the West has intercepted those plans and has made them public thereby
kind of taking away the element of surprise. Now, what we're told is that there is no evidence here that these Russian officials are going to revolt
against Vladimir Putin or that they're going to defy his orders in any way.
If anything, a source familiar with the intelligence tells us that they are professional military, they will respond to Putin's orders effectively. But
it is an interesting kind of indication of how ambitious Putin's plans appear to be even to members of his own, you know, military and
intelligence apparatus.
We're told that Russia has about 70 percent of the weapons and the troops of amass at the border that it would need to launch that full scale kind of
land and air invasion of Ukraine and perhaps even go as far as to take Kyiv. And that this is part of why so many people in Putin's kind of inner
circle in his orbit, even they don't really understand what Putin is planning here.
Putin himself really is the only person that U.S. intelligence officials say is going to make that final decision. And what that will actually look
like, also remains to be seen Becky.
ANDERSON: Fred, President Putin's detractors might suggest that he might hope to drive a wedge between Europeans on the block's position in all of
this, and that may be part of his strategy with the French President in town.
It doesn't seem positions aren't anyways, wholly aligned. Let's be quite frank, tell me more about Germany's role and its reluctance, for example,
to offer Ukraine military help.
PLEITGEN: Yes, I think you're absolutely right. And I think that there are some, certainly in the NATO alliance who do view Germany, at least as one
of the sort of weaker links at this point in time, especially in light of the fact that of course, there's big energy dependency by Germany on the
Russian Federation with the Nord Stream II Pipeline, where so far we haven't exactly heard what the German position on that is, if there is a
further invasion of Ukraine.
And then of course, there is also the fact that Germany has said it will not deliver lethal weapons to Ukraine either. In fact, right now, the
German Foreign Minister is actually in Ukraine has not changed that position yet. So right now difficult position for Germany as some are
questioning just how solid an ally the Germans are at this point in time. Let's have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (voice over): As Russia continues amassing troops at Ukraine's borders, the U.S. and its allies have stepped up deliveries of defensive
weapons to Kyiv, including armor piercing anti-tank missiles, notably missing though NATO partner Germany the Germans only offering 5000 helmets
for the Ukrainians facing Russian tanks.
[11:10:00]
CHRISTINE LAMBRECHT, GERMAN DEFENSE MINISTER: The German government has said very clearly that we will not send any lethal weapons or arms
deliveries to conflict areas because we do not want to fuel these conflicts further.
PLEITGEN (voice over): But Germany is coming off a record year for arms exports, the top client, Egypt despite its difficult human rights track
record. Ukraine's Ambassador to Berlin says his country is not happy.
ANDRJI MELNYK, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO GERMANY: I think that they have to reconsider and they have really start helping us with the weapons of a
defensive type, which we need right now.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Some NATO countries are questioning just how reliable an ally Berlin is when it comes to confronting Russian aggression,
especially after the Head of the German Navy recently had to resign after saying Vladimir Putin deserves respect.
When dealing with Russia, Germany is still haunted by its past says Sudha David-Wilp from the German Marshall Fund in Berlin.
SUDHA DAVID-WILP, GERMAN MARSHALL FUND: They're afraid of sending weapons to Ukraine and those weapons being used against Russians given the number
of Russians that were killed during World War II. But let's be honest, there were huge amounts of Ukrainians that were victims as well during
World War II.
PLEITGEN (voice over): Millions of Ukrainians were killed as Hitler's army overran what was then the Ukrainian part of the Soviet Union, nearly the
entire Jewish population there wiped out. But Germany also has hard economic reasons for going soft on Russia its dependence on Russian gas and
the Nord Stream II Pipeline $11 billion undersea link between the two countries.
While Berlin recently claimed the pipeline was a purely economic project, at least now the government says a Russian invasion of Ukraine would have
an impact.
ANNALENA BAERBOCK, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If there is renewed aggression, we have the full bandwidth of measures, including Nord Stream II.
PLEITGEN (voice over): The U.S. has long urged Berlin to use Nord Stream II, which is not yet certified for gas transit as leverage to deter Moscow.
Now, the State Department says if Russia invades the project is dead.
VICTORIA NULAND, U.S. UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE: If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another Nord Stream II will not move forward.
PLEITGEN (on camera): But currently, the Germans are still very much moving forward with Nord Stream II. In fact, a German subsidiary was just founded
trying to speed up certification here in Europe. All this as Berlin says it remains firmly in the U.S.'s corner and says that it will support massive
sanctions against Russia if there is a further invasion of Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: And of course, Becky, what we have right now actually going on at this moment is that the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is in Washington. He
is visiting us President Biden. And one of the things that we saw in that report there is that the U.S. for its part says if there is a further
invasion of Ukraine, Nord Stream will not happen. The Germans simply aren't there yet.
But Olaf Scholz said before leaving for Washington, D.C., he said that all options would be on the table. Now, of course, that falls short of what the
Biden Administration is saying. Olaf Scholz says he wants to keep that ambiguity in his negotiations with the Kremlin that are coming up a week
after he visits D.C.
So right now, you can really tell the Germans really trying to align their position trying to show the U.S. that they are still a very strong ally.
Well, at the same time, also trying to put forward diplomatic efforts to try for their part to also obviously prevent any further escalation just a
small tidbit that I just heard a couple of minutes ago, the Germans have now said that they are actually willing to put an additional 350 troops
into Eastern Europe though, Becky?
ANDERSON: Hmm, fascinating. That's the story out - well these certainly the perspective out of Berlin, you heard from Washington and Moscow a little
earlier. Make no mistake, the crux of this crisis is certainly on the face of it, at least the Russian presence opposition to NATO's eastward
expansion in Europe and fears the alliance will expand further.
And his latest meanwhile, in America Column, CNN's Stephen Collinson asks, does Vladimir Putin have a point? Stephen posits that after the breakup of
the Soviet Union, Western governments failed to heed the lessons of Russia's scorched earth political past.
Stephen writing did NATO's triumphalism and stampede over Russian pride pave the way for where we are now? It was always a possibility that a
future strong man in the Kremlin would use NATO expansion sparked foreign policy crisis and as a nationalistic tool for his own legitimacy as Steven
says Putin has done Stephen Collinson joining me now from Washington.
And to continue the conceit as it were of this argument here do you believe NATO and the West do to a large degree actually fueled part of this dilemma
that we are witnessing at present?
[11:15:00]
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, I think Becky; you have to look at what this Ukraine crisis is really about. What is happening is
that President Putin is effectively holding Ukraine hostage to try to rewrite the established outcome of the Cold War.
NATO's expansion into those Warsaw Pact Nations was a humiliation for Russia. We know that Putin has said that he views the fall of the Soviet
Union is the greatest catastrophe in modern history, including two world wars.
So it was clear that NATO expansion would be humiliating for Russia, and it could lead to this foreign policy of revenge, which is basically the
underpinning of everything Putin has followed abroad over the last decade or so.
But I think you also have to ask the question is what would have happened had NATO not expanded? Would those countries like Poland, Czech Republic,
and the Baltic countries have been able to develop into democracies into prosperous countries that they've now become many of them?
You know, notwithstanding some backsliding on democracy in some of those countries, would the Russians have any way tried to reassert control or
influence over Eastern Europe? So it's very difficult to say what might have happened in the best of all possible worlds had NATO not expanded.
And if you are sitting right now in the Baltic Republics or Poland, and you're seeing the treatment that is being meted out by Russia, the troop
build up to Ukraine, you're going to argue that joining NATO was exactly the right thing to have done because it guarantees your security, whatever
the Russians might think in the Kremlin about NATO's foundational argument that it's a defensive alliance and poses no threat to Russia.
ANDERSON: Stephen, I just want our viewers to get another expert from what was a super newsletter. I have to say when I read it in my inbox this
morning, it was fascinating. You quote an American Diplomat, George Kennan, who in the 1940s, coined the core U.S. Containment Policy against the
Soviet Union and I quote here.
The Russians will not react wisely and moderately to this decision of NATO to expand its boundaries, the Russian frontiers is clear, that will develop
a holy and even tragically unnecessary division between east and west and in effect, a renewal of the Cold War.
He predicted a sort of strong militarization of Russian politics. And he predicted you note that Moscow would seek to unite Iran and China to form
an anti-western bloc. Which were you to be a keen watcher of news and diplomacy, as you and I are, many of the folks watching this show will be
sounds mightily familiar at this point?
COLLINSON: Right. And we saw that summit last week in Beijing before the Olympics between President Putin and Xi Jinping, which was clearly designed
by the Russians to send this signal about there being an anti-American front how serious and strategic and deep that alliances is, of course, a
question.
There are lots of reasons for suspicion between Russia and China. And of course, China is now a far more powerful country than Russia is, you know,
reversing the situation that prevailed during the Soviet years. But clearly, that's what Putin is trying to do.
Now the answer to this crisis is what President Macron is trying to create over there in Moscow right now. There's no prospect that the U.S. will
agree to Russia's demands to take its troops and weapons out of those new NATO states, the Former Warsaw Pact countries like Poland and Romania.
In fact, President Biden sent more troops to Poland and Romania last week or at least ordered them to go there. But is there some kind of solution
whereby Putin can say that he's got some progress that he's rolled back the idea of NATO further expansion, that he's got some caveat to that expansion
that allows him to have a face saving argument about this without walking away with nothing?
That's the question that seems exactly what President Macron was talking about in a French newspaper interview this weekend. But if your position as
Vladimir Putin isn't your historic mission is reversing NATO expansion that you see as a catastrophe for the Russian civilization it's very difficult
to see how that can work a while?
One more thing I would say though is that whatever you think about NATO expansion I think you can argue that some of the U.S. policy towards Russia
at least the tone of it in recent years, hasn't really taken into account how things look for Moscow.
[11:20:00]
COLLINSON: That is, I think, a trait of American foreign policy, not just in Europe, but in the Middle East over the first 20 years of this century
that the way things look in Washington aren't necessarily how they are perceived abroad, in all sorts of countries.
And that really is I think, you can say as a criticism of American foreign policy, whatever you think about the wider strategy.
ANDERSON: You could extend Kennan's argument on this sort of access with China and Iran, of course, by just noting that the Russians really do at
this point, hold the keys on these Iranian talks, discussions, the JCPOA talks that are going on in Vienna as we speak. And of course, China and
Russia are key members of the permanent Security Council two of five.
Thank you and you can read a lot more from Stephen Collinson in his "Meanwhile in America Newsletter", that is cnn.com specials page you can
read all of Stephens new services that cover the gamut of politics in the States and the rest of the world, including his take on how tensions with
the Kremlin over Ukraine present a major test for the Biden Administration? And a jolly good read they are.
Ahead on the show a state of emergency in the Canadian capital protests have paralyzed parts of Ottawa and the mayor says they are threatening
public safety and later this hour Israel trying to get a grip on a new land conflict why this recent dispute is turned fiercely political?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Anger over COVID measures spreading across Canada as demonstrations spill into a new week. The Mayor of Ottawa issuing a state
of emergency to try and get a handle on these protests he's called out of control. Well, Paula Newton is there in Ottawa. Paula, we're in the second
week now of these protests just take us back for a moment and explain how we got here.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know it's a good idea, Becky to start at the beginning, right? This was called Freedom Convoy. It was a convoy of
truckers making its way from the west end of the country here thousands and thousands of miles away here to the capital to demand that vaccine mandates
be dropped.
And this all started because both the Biden Administration and the Trudeau Government agreed that there should be a vaccine mandate for truckers going
across their borders. I will point out that the vast majority of truckers in this country are already vaccinated.
But Becky this has turned into so much more and it is hit a nerve with many exhausted Canadians some of them even vaccinated that are saying enough is
enough we want an end to the lockdowns an end to the vaccine and mask mandates.
[11:25:00]
NEWTON: The problem is now, Becky, is that city officials here say that basically this has turned into an occupation. And in that occupation, they
allege that, you know, regular residents trying to go about their own business have been terrorized.
They've been harassed. There's been a hate crimes hotline that has been opened up again from these protesters that continue to camp in the center
of downtown right in front of the national parliament.
Now this has gone beyond something that is just here in Canada we have had protests right across the country. Right now two major protests continue
one here in Ottawa, another on the Alberta Montana border.
And at issue here though, in Ottawa and reason they had an emergency as state of emergency declared is that the police chief is very blunt. They
cannot handle this type of thing. And I want you to hear the police chief now really responding to how some city officials described what was going
on here and that it really was a threat to democracy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER SLOLY, OTTAWA POLICE CHIEF: He also bought office that I and my officers swore were never intended to deal with a city under siege, a
threat to our democracy, a nationwide insurrection driven by madness. There is no concrete plan for such a scenario as you described.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: You can imagine how terrifying that is for the Ottawa residents who have to live under this to even hear this because it means that this
protest continues. I want to underscore Becky, only a few 100 protesters left but unfortunately well over 100 tractor trailers in the middle of
downtown.
You heard the police chief there. They really don't have a plan A, plan B or Plan C for this. They are trying to step up enforcement things are
quieter. But again, people looking to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to say look, are you going to mediate, what are you going to do? We just had one
of the opposition parties come up in a press conference Becky as well and say that they feel this is a threat to Canadian democracy and they want to
see him.
ANDERSON: Paula, thank you, coming up on "Connect the World". But live in Beijing view with all of the highlights from the Beijing Winter Olympics,
more on the triumphs and some stunning losses in the day's competition. Plus French President Emmanuel Macron talking about dialogue with Russia to
resolve the Ukrainian crisis, one analyst says that seems inappropriate, find out why after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: Well cheers and some jeers in China after a jam packed day of winter Olympic competition on Monday. Fans are praising 17 year old Su
Yiming for winning silver in men's snowboarding slope style after competing some stunning tricks.
That's not the same for Zhuji the U.S. born figure skater competing for Team China. She's under attack after falling in her Olympic debut on Sunday
for China. And things didn't go as planned on the slopes earlier for Americans ski star, Mikaela Shiffrin.
The defending champion suffered a bit of disappointment after crashing out of the women's giant slalom. Watching all of this, CNN Sports Analyst
Christine Brennan joining us live from Beijing for more of the day's highlights. There's been some terrific competition. Let's start where I
just left off with Mikaela Shiffrin. I mean, what a heart rate you can feel the pain in her voice, just explain what happened.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yes, Becky, you know, as she went, this is the Giant slalom; it's one of her big events. She won the gold
medal in 2018. In this event, gold medal favorite coming in. She's going to do all five of the Alpine disciplines.
This is the first one and as she went through the fifth gate, she just skied off and basically just lost the edge. And she was you know what she
is, the thing about Mikaela Shiffrin, she is so human.
She doesn't say well, that's OK. You know, I'm just going to look ahead to the next ones. No, she said, I'll never get over this. It's really tough.
And she's 26 years old. She's been doing this a long time.
High Hopes for her the high hopes from the entire nation, the United States for this superstar. And that's how you start. She said she's going to go
practice and get ready for the next races, but a real unfortunate turn of events that this hasn't happened to her since December of 2018. So this is
exactly the time you don't want to have it happen at the Olympics.
ANDERSON: Yes, and she will get over it, of course, but it's not going to feel like that at the moment for is it, despite an ankle injury, Karen Chen
did the U.S. team proud explain?
BRENNAN: Yes, so the finger skating team competition is third go round 2014, 2018, 2022. And the United States won the silver medal after two
bronze medals Russia, the Russian Olympic Committee, one and Japan was third.
Karen Chen had fallen in the short program needed to come back and the U.S. was in pretty good shape, frankly. But one solid performance from Karen
Chen would make sure clinch that silver medal for the United States. And she did exactly that.
A Cornell student on leave of absence, she really showed herself to be the clutch performer, the U.S. was hoping and she did lead the U.S. to that
silver medal. So Russia though extraordinary and obviously, really the team to beat in figure skating.
ANDERSON: Look, this event and this competition, the Winter Olympics is so often about hope it's so often about heartbreak. It's often about
inspiration as well, isn't it? And one of the most incredible stories coming out of the Olympics is the one of snowboarder Max Parrot firstly
beat cancer and then Christine is rivals.
BRENNAN: Right, exactly. And these are the kinds of stories is you said that just appeal so much to, to the, to the viewers into the fans. And you
know his emotion as he's winning, and knowing what he's gone through, knowing the fact that he's beaten cancer and had to fight back against
that.
You know, it's almost as they say, once you've had that battle, that lifetime battle, the Olympics is just, you know, pure joy to be able to try
to pull it off.
But his joy and then is met with sadness and sorrow back in the figure skating venue, are one the Americans who won the silver medal, Vincent Joe,
getting ready to compete in the men's individual competition.
The short program, which is Tuesday here in Beijing, he finds out he test positive for COVID. And he's out, his dream is over. And I think that's the
storyline, Becky, that we're going to continue to have here of the highs and lows of the Olympic Games with COVID obviously as that backdrop.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. Keep an eye on everything for us there in Beijing and we will have you back. Thank you.
Well, there are a lot more stories of triumph. And of heartbreak of course as athletes make history at the Olympics; Dutch speed skater Ireen Wust
just set a new record becoming the first athlete ever to win an individual gold in five separate games, cnn.com for more Olympic coverage.
[11:35:00]
ANDERSON: Well, more now on those potentially critical tools going on right now between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his French counterpart
Emmanuel Macron.
Mr. Macron says he hopes the discussion will begin a process of de- escalation over Ukraine. Tomorrow, Mr. Macron will shuttle to Kyiv, he said, regional security issues top the agenda, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACRON: I have pretty much that we'll be able to enter into detail on all those issues. And begin to build a constructive arrangement, which is
mutually acceptable to Russia and the rest of Europe and which will help us to avoid war and create the greatest degree of visibility for all
concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, my next guest says France needs to clarify its position on the Ukraine crisis. He said Macron's suggestion that Europe act as a
balancing power, as ill-timed as it is ill-considered seems to imply that Russia, China and the United States are equidistant and equal worth and of
equal worth.
Second, while no one is ruling out talks, the word dialogue seems inappropriate today. In fact, despite the multiple working groups launched
by the President's envoy on this subject, this dialogue has produced nothing, as was to be expected.
While not holding back, Nicholas Tenzer is the Editor of Desk Russie, a Russian newsletter, and he joins me now via Skype. Let's start with this
meeting of Vladimir Putin and Emmanuel Macron, sitting at both ends of what is a very, very long table.
I know we've seen this table before. But look, I mean, it didn't look particularly warm as far as the body language was concerned. The French
president turned up saying he was cautiously optimistic effectively didn't expect to see spontaneous miracles. What's his strategy here? And will it
work?
NICOLAS TENZER, EDITOR, DESK RUSSIE: Well, I think it's very difficult to know. In fact, I think Emmanuel Macron, remains quite ambiguous, because on
the one hand, he has a very tough language on Russia.
Things that we must really comply with the International requirement are that he must give up on Ukraine, respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, its
territorial integrity. But on the other hand, it says that we have to drive a kind of dialogue with Russia. And I think dialogue is probably not the
right word. We could have discussions basically with Russia.
But dialogue or even negotiation is completely appropriate, because we must know that there could be no trust with Russia. Macron, before he has -
abandoned this language, talked about the new architecture of security of trust with Russia.
And I think we cannot trust Russia, basically because I think Russia wants to keep its grips on Ukraine, on Georgia as well on Belarus transmit --.
And I think, well, I think that we cannot expect anything about this kind of dialogue with Putin's regime.
ANDERSON: The Kremlin went into this meeting. So they haven't seen anything new in terms of their demands, in terms of the responses that they've got
to their demands. There is a certain suggestion, and I think, to all intents purposes, you're suggesting this as well, that there might be a
strategy on the part of President Putin to try and drive a wedge or drive a further wedge between the Europeans as a bloc on this, and Europeans, NATO
and the U.S. from the language that you have heard from Emmanuel Macron.
Do you see that as an opportunity for Vladimir Putin at this point? You know, we're all reading the tea leaves, because we have no real idea what
his intentions are at this point.
TENZER: Yes, exactly. I think that's still really I think, Putin aims at basically dividing the Allies, dividing the EU and the U.S. and the EU
countries between --. You have some countries that are ready to appease basically Russia such as Hungary with all band searchers.
Germany, also with Chancellor - and Macron, I think is in between. He still considers that Europe must have a specific voice, have its own say, on the
Russian crisis. But on the other hand, I think it takes a lot of care to consult with President Biden. I had the phone calls yesterday's with the
leaders of the Baltic States, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.
He had also some tapes with President Duda of Poland. So he tried just to say that, well, we must not divide Europe. And already I think he has in
mind - his previous attempt with Central America at that time in June 2021 to have this kind of summit between the EU and Russia.
[11:40:00]
TENZER: And it was completely rejected by quite all the members of the EU Council. So I think we must be very, very, very cautious. And in fact, we
know that if there is a solution, I don't know, what could be, you know, in the Russian crisis.
I think it will be brought, because the U.S. has very strong resolve to send troops, if something happens to have personal sanctions against the
oligarchs. I mean, put it in a circle. And I think that would make the difference.
ANDERSON: Right.
TENZER: I think Europe alone or France alone cannot make the difference basically.
ANDERSON: We're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for your analysis and your insight this evening. Just ahead, the Bedouins of
southern Israel's Negev desert, our citizens who can vote and they're not happy.
One of the fragile Israeli governments is keen to know why. And later Eileen Gu is one of the faces of the Beijing Winter Olympics, why the
American teenager is hoping to win gold for China.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: A program to plant trees in the Negev desert in southern Israel is sparking opposition and protests from the Bedouin community there. Some
say the Jewish National Funds tree program is an effort to drive them off their land lamb which Israel says is public property in the first place.
Well, all of this is playing into an easy balance in Israel's governing coalition. CNN's Hadas Gold joining us now live from Jerusalem. Explain if
you will.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, conflicts over land rights in Israel are nothing new. But unlike many Palestinians, where we often see this,
these Bedouins are Israeli citizens and they show how having a vote can make a big difference.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOLD (voice over): This is the Bedouin village of --. Mostly unpaved roads, no street signs off the grid, a consequence of what Israeli authorities say
are unrecognized neighborhoods, one of several dozen in the Negev desert region of southern Israel.
In the eyes of the government, some of these homes were built illegally. Last month, a long running program to plant trees across Israel, ran
headfirst into this village and turned fiercely political.
They were met with protests some of which turned violent. Partly overland - -Alia trash says has belonged to his family for generations. But acres of which the Israeli authorities say is public land.
[11:45:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We live from this land, we plant for our sheep. We have olive trees from which we sell olives and oil.
GOLD (voice over): Ollie believes the government plan is not actually about the environment or the trees. He thinks it's a way to get him and his
community to move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to give us a cage of 300 meters that they can block us inside. We are big families. Each man is married to more than one
woman and have an average of five to 10 children. So we can't live in a cage.
GOLD (voice over): If he could, Ollie says, he would lead a nomadic life like his ancestors. But that is impossible in modern society, which looms
over them in the nearby city of --. Inside the village, sisters in - who declined to show their faces because of cultural norms say every day they
fear police coming to demolish their homes, many built without permits, they say are difficult to obtain.
On the day we visited a group of cars that people unknown to the villagers gathered on a nearby hilltop, regardless of who they were, their very
presence alarmed the villagers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our lives are full of fear, we never feel secure. Our children are traumatized. They all suffer from fear and anxiety.
GOLD (voice over): In Israel conflict over land rights is nothing new. But unlike most Palestinians, to whom many here feel aligned, these Bedouins
have Israeli citizenship and they vote.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to be recognized like any other citizen in the state.
GOLD (voice over): The man who largely represents them in the Israeli parliament is Mansour Abbas. He broke a decade's long taboo last year
taking an Arab parliament to government for the first time, and is now vital in keeping the ruling coalition in power.
The party flexed its muscles last month, boycotting votes over the tree planting. So the government took a step back and said any future work in
the region will be negotiated carefully with the locals.
For longtime environmentalist Alon Tal, a Member of Parliament for the centrist blue and white party, it was the right move. But he says
ecological projects like this - forests planted in the 1960s are a benefit to everybody.
ALON TAL, ISRAELI KNESSET MEMBER: And I think that all Israeli citizens, especially the Bedouins have a right to preserve the open spaces and have
those lands as parks for the future not give a few families control over land in what often is a lawless kind of way.
GOLD (voice over): Those open spaces can be magnets for environmental damage caused by waste dumping and illegal landfills according to the
Israeli land authority. It says tree planting boosts conservation and serves to counter squatting and illegal construction. For Alon Tal, the
bigger issue is one of progress.
TAL: As these Bedouin citizens become more modernized, they are moving into communities and cities and towns. And we need to provide them the
educational opportunities and give them the land resources they need. So they can have thriving communities and become part of Israeli mainstream.
GOLD (voice over): But many in the village don't want to change their ways and just want to be left alone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our land is our dignity. No human being can live without dignity. We prefer to die than leaving it.
GOLD (voice over): For now the planting stopped.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLD: And so Becky, now these villagers will wait to see what these negotiations bring in. Many just hope that they will just get some basic
infrastructure to their villages, Becky.
ANDERSON: Hadas, I want to turn to another story out of Israel, while I've got you. Police could potentially come and inquire about the use of Pegasus
hacking software against government officials. What exactly are the allegations here?
GOLD: Right, so this potential state inquiry comes after a news report by the Israeli new site calcalist. And they're alleging that police use the
NSO software Pegasus on Israeli citizens without judicial warrants in a much, much more wider way than was previously reported.
And the targets ranged from heads of government ministries, leaders of protest movements to businessmen and even former Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu's son.
Now according to this report, the hacking was done to essentially fish for intelligence before any investigation was even open. Now these allegations
add on to previous reporting by the same news website last month.
But today's report goes so much further by suggesting that this widespread surveillance was of people were under no suspicion of any sort of
wrongdoing. Now Prime Minister Naftali Bennett has said in a statement that if the reports are true, they are serious.
And while these are important tools in the fight against terrorism and severe crime, they need to understand exactly what happened as now Israel's
government is said to consider opening a state commission of inquiry, Becky.
ANDERSON: Hadas Gold on the story for us. Thank you. Let's get you up to speed folks on some of the other stories that are on our radar right now.
And Tunisia's top judicial watchdog is ignoring the President's decision to dissolve it.
This free Judicial Council says the president has no legal means to take such action. President Kais Saied accused the Council of bias, he will say
dissolve parliament and dismiss the prime minister last July. [11:50:00]
ANDERSON: And Iranian team will be back in Vienna Tuesday for nuclear talks. This is a resumption of the eighth round of negotiations between
Iran and diplomats from Europe, China and Russia with U.S. indirectly participating.
Iran's foreign ministry says it expects the U.S. to offer details on lifting sanctions, and Iraq's presidential election is on hold
indefinitely. Large number of lawmakers boycotted today's vote after the country's Federal Court blocked the candidacy of former Foreign Minister
Hoshyar Zebari.
He is accused of corruption, he's denied the allegations. Well, tributes are being paid to the five year old Moroccan boy who died after rescue.
He's spent days trying to reach him down.
Well, the funeral for Rayan Aourram was held a short time ago. His death is prompted, condolences from around the world including from Heads of State,
French President Emmanuel Macron told the boy's family in his words, we share your pain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All eyes on Eileen Gu who made her Olympic debut on Monday. The freestyle skier advanced to the big air finals and her first qualifying
competition a short time ago. CNN's Coy Wire shows us her meteoric rise.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS (voice over): She's fierce, fearless, and a favorite to win gold here at the Beijing Winter Olympics. Move over else. There's a
new snow princess in town.
EILEEN GU, CHINESE OLYMPIC FREESKIER: My name is Eileen Gu. I'm from San Francisco and I'm a free ski.
WIRE (on camera): The 18 year old sensation was born in the U.S. but her mom was born in China and Eileen decided to compete for China at these
games.
GU: My family's always was super supportive of me. I come from a long line of engineers. So it definitely wasn't expected. And I don't think anybody
really thought that I would become a professional skier or professional athlete in general.
WIRE (voice over): But she's so much more than an athlete. The Chinese speaking horseback riding piano playing prodigy graduated high school in
just three years. And she's already been admitted to her dream school, Stanford.
She's a model for Louis Vuitton, Estee Lauder, racking up roughly 20 Brand Partners and big time dollars. She's the poster child for snow sports in
China starring alongside Chinese actor Jackson Yi in an official Beijing Games promo video being played throughout China.
She says her decision to compete for China instead of USA stems from a strong mother daughter bond. Yan Gu taught Eileen to embrace her heritage,
honor her ancestry.
GU: My mom has always been super, super supportive. My grandma is the most motivated to win person. She has the most competitive mindset that I've
ever met ever. So I think my grandma gave me that competitive drive and kind of supported me in that way.
And my mom kind of taught me the work ethic aspect, so anybody can want to win. But I think it was my mom that taught me how to get there.
[11:55:00]
WIRE (voice over): And now Eileen wants to inspire the next generation from her mom's homeland get there too. She says she's competing to unite people,
promote common understanding, create communication, and forged friendships between nations. Coy Wire, CNN, China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Most passports are bland and boring. Belgium is changing up in a flashy way. Starting today Belgians can personalize their passports with
images of comic strip heroes.
Officials say it's an effort to combat counterfeiters as well as celebrate the nation's comic strip history. Most of the images on the new passport
taken from classic comic strips like the Smurfs and Tintin that explorers on the moon, which was first published in 1954. That is it from us, same
time same place tomorrow. "One World" with Zain Asher is next.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: Hello, everyone, I'm Zain Asher in New York and this is "One World". It is another day of high stakes shuttle
diplomacy as the Westerns standoff with Russia enters what could be a dangerous new phase.
END
