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E.U. Proposes Complete Ban on Russian Oil Imports; Contact Lost with Fighters inside Mariupol Steel Plant; Azovstal Evacuees Describe Horrors of Life under Siege; Oklahoma Governor Signs Abortion Bill; Luhansk Official Says Heavy Weapons Could Change the War; Lviv's Power Restored after Missile Strikes. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired May 04, 2022 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): Just over 100 civilians, the first to leave the basement of the Azovstal steel
plant in Mariupol, bringing with them, stories of the circle of hell they lived in underground for weeks.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, these were the lucky ones. The rest are still stuck in the Azovstal steel plant, the
situation is desperate.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I was brought here naked. I have nothing at all, no money, no documents, nothing.
GIOKOS (voice-over): The harrowing story of one survivor who barely escaped an artillery attack.
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URSULA VAN DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: This is another important signal to all perpetrators of the Kremlin. We know who you are,
we will hold you accountable.
GIOKOS (voice-over): With the war continuing into day 70, the European Union is considering new sanctions including a ban on Russian oil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: I am Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi. Welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.
Now after months of holding out against all odds, the situation inside the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol, reaching a new level of desperation. A
short time ago, the mayor said contact has now been lost with Ukrainian fighters inside of the plant. And they are that besieged city's last line
of defense.
The mayor also reports heavy battles all around the plant. And he says 30 children are among the hundreds of civilians still trapped inside, all
waiting on negotiations for a new evacuation mission.
Earlier today, a new evacuation convoy did depart Mariupol for Zaporizhzhya. A Ukrainian official in Donetsk says the convoy will pick up
more civilians along the way and private vehicles can also join. Now more than 120 people evacuated from the steel plant arrived in Zaporizhzhya on
Tuesday.
And, of course, we covered the story extensively and now it's not clear if today's evacuees are from the plant or among the thousands of others in
Mariupol, who have endured months of relentless Russian shelling.
Ukraine's president, talking about the dire situation in Mariupol in his nightly address.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Of course, we will continue to do everything to get all of our people out of Mariupol
and Azovstal. It is difficult but we need everybody who stays there, civilians and soldiers. There was not a day that we did not address this
issue, that our people did not try to solve this issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: And meantime, the deputy mayor of Lviv in Western Ukraine says electricity in the city has been completely restored after Russian cruise
missiles, hit three power stations. He said Russia fired nearly 20 missiles toward Ukraine from the Caspian Sea as it increased targeting of Ukraine's
infrastructure.
Now Europe may be about to take its most drastic state so far to punish Russia for invading Ukraine. E.U. Commission president Ursula van der Leyen
says, finally, we now propose a ban on Russian oil. She emphasizes, it will not be easy. She suggests phasing it out in an orderly fashion to maximize
pressure on Russia, while minimizing the impact on Europe's economies. Take a listen.
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VON DER LEYEN: This adds another important signal to all perpetrators of the Kremlin. We know who you are. We will hold you accountable. You are not
getting away with this. Putin must pay a price, a high price, for his brutal aggression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All, right a stark warning, but it will not be easy indeed. And every country in the E.U. would have to sign off on the ban. CNN's Clare
Sebastian is following this for us from London.
Clare, really good to see you.
[10:05:00]
GIOKOS: Oil and gas are the last lines of defense for Russia. Because that is the news surrounding here. Oil is far easier than gas but not everybody
is going to be on board and that might bring to question E.U. unity.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And this is been a real test of the E.U. unity in the face of what the E.U. certainly perceives as Russian
efforts to expose fault lines within the bloc.
What we have leading into, this and I think that still remains is a real sense of momentum. Germany has signed off to a potential embargo. And there
are potential holdouts. Slovakia has avoided the (INAUDIBLE) exemption and we heard from the Hungarian government.
The spokesman today saying in a tweet we do not see any plans on how it can be managed based on the current proposals and how Hungary's energy security
would be guaranteed. So he is not satisfied by what he is seeing in the text.
Right, now the E.U. Council is debating this, they're holding discussions on the tax, on the proposals. They have reached unanimity to adopt for it
to come into force. We have seen a lot of potential Hungarian veto override the fact that Germany for example, the biggest import of Russian energy is
on board with this.
Clearly, this is the biggest perhaps weapon the E.U. has so far even considered deploying against Russia in this economic war, that it's been
waging. It will not be easy as Ursula van der Leyen said, if you look at oil prices today, they are up fairly significantly on top of already a 40
percent gain for oil so far this year.
That will feed into inflation in Europe, which is already sort of record high 7.5 percent. The Kremlin had a response today as well, which I want to
read.
Dmitry Peskov said the sanctions, aspirations of the Americans, Europeans and other countries are a double edged weapon. He says in trying to harm
us, they too have to pay a heavy price. They're already doing it paying a big price. The cost of the sanctions for European citizens will increase
every day.
He also said Russia is monitoring situations around the sanctions, he emphasized they haven't yet been adopted, but clearly the rhetoric from the
Kremlin is that Europe, rather than hurting Russia, is hurting itself.
GIOKOS: Yes and as the Kremlin says, reminded Europeans of their double edged sword but leaders are remaining resolute in terms of pushing Putin
into a corner. Whether that will work is the question. I want to talk Moldova and the fact that there is discussion about assisting Moldova with
military defenses.
SEBASTIAN: Yes, this is very interesting, a new sort of aspect toward what the E.U. is trying to do here. This comes from Sean Michel, who is the head
of the president of the E.U. council. He was meeting today with the president of Moldova. And he talked about ramping up military support.
He didn't want to say too much about escalation, but said some decisions have already been made on the logistics and cyber defense. The context here
of course, is that Moldova is still firmly pro E.U. But it has a separatist republic of Transnistria, which borders Ukraine, where there have been
several explosions recently.
But each side in the Ukraine conflict has blamed each other for Russia. It does have a troop presence in Transnistria. A Russian general recently said
according to state media, if they gain control of the south of the southern border of Ukraine along the Black Sea, that could give them access to
Transnistria.
The fear here in the E.U. is that Russia could try to open a new front in this conflict. Certainly something they would want to guard against.
GIOKOS: Clare Sebastian, thank you so much, good to see you.
I would like to now remind our viewers about us following the story out of Mariupol. Lots of people, hundreds of people still stuck in the Azovstal
steel plant. We have Nick Paton Walsh joining us, live now on the ground in central Ukraine.
Nick, I was just you know looking at the news flow. The mayor saying that comes in our art from Ukraine's military in the steel plant. Still 30
children are still trapped inside. Evacuations efforts we, know we have discussed this, are delicate. They are difficult.
Do we have any news in terms of trying to get people out once again?
WALSH: As far as we understand, I am sure the scenes being depicted by the mayor are accurate, it will be impossible to get people out today. I
understand from a source close to the evacuation effort, it is more likely today that civilians from the wider areas of Mariupol will be the ones
getting out in the U.N. assisted efforts today.
This does appear to be the final perhaps, certainly escalating onslaught by the Russians to that facility; 30 children thought to be inside. There
could be hundreds of other civilians, too. The people who got out and we spoke to said there were a number of separate chambers in the basement.
[10:10:00]
WALSH: Some are holding 30 or 40 individuals. Some counted, in one chamber there were in 17 children. The numbers for one person are kind of outside
of their scope of knowing. It's sort of compartmentalized like that.
Ukrainian soldiers have been fending off Russian attacks for the past days. But it sounds like there is nothing quite as intense as the onslaught they
have been seeing today. Airstrikes, artillery as well and that loss of communications with those inside. A suggestion that something new possibly
is afoot here.
Maybe a bid by Moscow to draw a line under this, a very savage one ahead of the May 9th victory parades they want to put on an annual events. Those
Russian defense minister saying how they have reliably blocked that steel plant.
But it is the final place of Ukrainian control in Mariupol, a city which reduced to rubble by Russia's bid to control it, from which we've seen
yesterday, the first people emerge.
But the question really being, can the wider efforts to get people out of Mariupol within assistance grow?
I understand from a source close to yesterday's evacuation efforts that in fact 50 buses were not used. They were a part of the effort originally
hoped to be filled out but weren't actually filled up by evacuees.
It seems like the Russians focused on letting the hundred or so out of the Azovstal plant, not allowing more civilians from the wider areas into that
convoy. We only saw five of those buses emerge. Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yes --
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WALSH (voice-over): -- five buses only but within them, the world's hopes of a way to deliver innocent Ukrainians to safety from Russia's onslaught.
Just over 100 civilians, the first to leave the basement of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol. Bringing with them stories of the circle of hell
they lived in underground for weeks.
This is Olga. After two months in the dark, she struggles in sunlight still. I asked if she can see OK. Bad, she says. I can't see anything in
the sun. Age 78 and she keeps saying, completely alone. Her entire life is in these two bags.48 hours earlier, she was pictured in a Ukrainian
military video just walking out of Mariupol cheerfully across a bridge.
Now via the U.N. and Red Cross, talks in Moscow and Kyiv and countless Russian checkpoints, she is here, worried she cannot fend for herself as a
wound to her leg isn't healing because of her diabetes. The head torch that was her only source of light still around her neck, her toilet roll in her
pocket.
OLGA (translated text): Toilet paper. Everything I won, I have with me. I went to the basement with just a bag and left with it. I thank the boys who
carried me out. Thanks to them. Lord bless them. I can't say anything bad about our soldiers there Azov or not Azov. They held me in their hands,
brought me out. One of them wanted to lift me up but I said you can't. They took each other's hands to lift me.
WALSH (voice-over): Also coming off the bus is another familiar face, Anna with six- month-old Sviatoslav (ph). Embraced by her brother, one of many
family reunions here. She was also seen in the same video as Olga leaving Mariupol the day after Sviatoslav (ph) turned six months old. She is a
French teacher in happier times.
WALSH: How do you feel now?
Tired?
ANNA, AZOVSTAL EVACUEE: Now I feel happy and exhausted because two months in basic --
WALSH: How did you live for two months in a basement with a four- month- old boy?
How did you eat?
ANNA: Now I smile because I can smile finally, because all those months I was crying every day. Emotionally, it was really very, very difficult. When
we didn't have any food, water for him, we just took a candle and we heat the water on the candle.
WALSH (voice-over): The busy world she's emerged into now different for her.
ANNA: For me now, for us (INAUDIBLE) how to say it?
Yes, yes. It's the most difficult and the most scary because now, when I -- sorry, it's emotional, yes.
WALSH: Of course.
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ANNA: Now when there are a lot of noise, I have like a reflex to hide myself, you know.
WALSH: What are you going to tell him when he's older?
ANNA: I'll just tell him that he was really a very, very brave boy, very brave. He's very calm. He's the best child in the world, I can say. He's
(INAUDIBLE).
WALSH: He's sleeping well, so that's good. It's all you can ask for.
ANNA: Yes, yes, all the time.
WALSH: Exactly.
ANNA: Yes. And also, I can say that I don't want for him to repeat this story with his child.
WALSH (voice-over): Yet the terror they bore witness to will fuel a loathing that won't pass quickly.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH: So that evacuation, you have to remember, was an incredibly small number of those still thought to be at grave risk. Not only in Azovstal but
wider Mariupol. Hundreds still in that steel works, under heavy bombardment now, with contact lost with them. And then hundreds of thousands across
wider Mariupol who may want to get out from Russian occupation.
It does seem like Moscow is trying to focus or wind up its operations there, with this increased onslaught and with some of the better known
personalities appearing to turn up in the areas controlled by Russia.
But all of that, no remote consolation for those under this bombardment. Now it is hardly surrounded. Russia's defense minister saying they have
reliably blocked that plant.
GIOKOS: Nick, we can only hope another evacuation corridor emerges specifically out of that steel plant. Thank you so much for keeping us
updated.
Now fury in the U.S. is growing after a leaked high court draft opinion on abortion. We will take a look at what that would mean for millions of
American women. And, fears of growing other rights through same-sex marriage and contraception could be in jeopardy as well. We will talk about
that just ahead.
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GIOKOS: Backlash is growing to a leaked draft opinion that shows the U.S. Supreme Court may be poised to end a woman's right to abortion. By
overturning its landmark Roe v. Wade decision.
The news has sparked protests across the country, including in Washington, outside the Supreme Court.
In Oklahoma, the state's Republican governor has signed a bill modeled after a controversial Texas abortion law. The Oklahoma Heartbeat Act
prohibits abortions, when early cardiac activity is detected, which could be as early as six weeks into a pregnancy before many women even know that
they are pregnant.
And the new law allows private citizens to sue abortion providers to enforce that law.
[10:20:00]
GIOKOS: Last month, the Oklahoma governor also signed a bill that would make it a crime to perform an abortion, except when there is a medical
emergency. Legal challenges have been filed against both laws.
And Oklahoma is not alone. More than 2 dozen states could ban abortions, if Roe v. Wade is overturned. CNN's Tom Foreman takes a closer look.
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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If the Supreme Court goes through with this ruling, these are all the states in red that are certain to ban
abortion, the states in the yellow likely to ban them, according to the progressive Guttmacher Institute.
Which says even though these bans may be of different measures, some may be outright, some may be 16 weeks, some may be 15 weeks, six weeks, whatever
it may be, the truth is that what this would do would affect 58 percent of the women in the country who are of child bearing years.
Those people would then be living in states that the institute says would be hostile to abortion rights.
And of course, there are many more states that are talking about that than there are states talking about protecting abortion rights. How will this be
moved forward with very far-reaching laws in terms of the language we have seen so far.
For example, if you look at one proposal here in Missouri, they would not merely forbid a woman getting an abortion but any attempt to help her get
one. Providing transportation, giving instructions, providing internet service by which she might access services, providing money, arranging for
insurance or referrals.
Any of that could make you an accessory. So if your sister became pregnant and wanted to talk to you about abortion, under these laws, you could be
culpable if you even discussed it with her.
Beyond that, there is this notion that what they're trying to do is basically say any child conceived in that state automatically becomes a
resident and legally protected.
So much so that if you read the details here, if a couple simply stopped in a hotel in Missouri, conceived a child and then went on to their homes in
let's say Nevada or in Oregon or California and then had an abortion, they would be treated as simply as fugitives from Missouri because that resident
went with them.
Legal battles, political battles all over the place connected to this. This is worth noting though.
While Democrats are scrambling to find some way here to blunt the impact of this ruling if it comes through, on this side there is a tremendous amount
of energy with Republicans and abortion opponents pushing very, very hard to say now is the time to run with this.
To enact a national standard that says it's illegal everywhere no matter what the states want because the courts are no longer standing in the way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Wow. Incredible insight there. Our next guest says that the Supreme Court might strike down Roe versus Wade but that will not stop
woman from trying to get abortions. It will just make it much more dangerous.
Alexis McGill Johnson is the president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, which provides health services and abortion care to
millions of women. She tweeted, no decision from a court can stop abortion, period, point blank. She added, people with resources will travel to get
the care that they need.
Others will self-manage their abortions. And there will be people who are forced to carry their pregnancies against their will. Alexis Johnson joins
me now.
Alexis, really good to see you. I cannot believe we are having this conversation about the United States. A woman's rights, in 2022. We are
going back decades and decades. My colleague there really outlining what we are looking at.
If a child is conceived in a certain state, they would become a resident of that state. To put it simply, it is where you basically have sex, is where
it becomes complicated. These conversations are happening right now, in legal terms.
Are you shocked?
This is one of the scariest things that could be happening for women's rights right now.
ALEXIS JOHNSON, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Absolutely. It is the scariest thing that is happening right now for our rights. It was a completely shocking
and surprising leak of this draft opinion of the Supreme Court, that has clearly now emboldened these incredible, surreal restrictions that your
colleague was reporting out.
The idea that, where you have sex or where you conceive is now a resident of the state. Criminalizing people who are traveling outside of state or
creating opportunities. I think that is what you have to think about for enforcement and surveillance of communities that are largely going to be
Brown and Black and low income.
[10:25:00]
JOHNSON: People have the least resources to be able to defend themselves. Because there is a point. People who had resources pre 1973, were always
able to get access to safe care. And that is what is happening right. Now we are trying to marginalize those, who do not have the resources to afford
it.
GIOKOS: If you have resources, you can travel and try to take care. But when I look at the restrictions that are already creeping up, in fact when
Trump came into power we saw these creeping up, in terms of making telemedicine difficult.
And any advice on the internet, they are so far reaching. But overturning Roe v. Wade is going to be unprecedented. And that would make things a lot
more difficult. I want you to give me an idea of these 20 states, already waiting to trigger their own laws in anticipation of this.
JOHNSON: Yes. There are actually 26 states that are poised. A dozen of them have trigger ban laws that have been baked into their constitutions
since before Roe became settled law.
And then we have another dozen that are really emboldened by what we are seeing out of the court to pass a extreme legislation. So whether it is a
Texas six-week bounty hunter law or the 15-week ban that we are seeing in Florida and Arizona, an entire swath of the Midwest and the South of the
U.S. will no longer be available for abortion care.
And that means that those residents now have to travel thousands of miles outside of their state in their cars, most likely, in order to get care.
And that is what is so scary. We are talking about most people who have access to abortion care in the U.S., they are already parents. So it means
endangering their families, their children. Putting them in the cars with their elderly caregivers or parents.
Travel, still, through a pandemic, in order to just get a medication and abortion. That is what we are asking them to do. That significant burden.
Which was also part of the codifying of Roe under the Planned Parenthood versus Casey decision. Really, it has kind of -- will be undermined if the
court, in fact, overturns Roe and Casey.
GIOKOS: I want to talk about what the justice Alito had said. It is quite long and we don't have enough time. But basically, the other rules and
other rights that are very similar to this one, based on the same legal basis, are not at risk.
That brings to question, they are specifically targeting female rights. Do you think it could, in fact, opened the door for other things like
contraception or same-sex marriage?
JOHNSON: I think he is just wrong. I think that all of these rights are tied up in the privacy clause. Declaring it has nothing to do with whether
or not they actually will -- these issues will come before the court.
Because we are seeing the same set of restrictions around trans rights and identity. I am sure we will start to see restrictions around marriage in
various states. They will create the challenges that will find their way into the Supreme Court in the same way that they created the challenges to
accessing abortion that found their way through the courts.
We have, over the last four years, seen an incredible -- or six years, rather -- remaking of the judiciary under the Trump administration. Many of
those lifetime sitting justices are also hostile to other rights and identities.
So we should not expect that because justice Alito says he does not believe that these are the rights are not contingent around abortion, but in fact,
I am sure that they were trying to make those same similar cases as well.
GIOKOS: Alexis McGill Johnson, thank you so very much. Really great to have you on. I'm sure we will have robust conversations like this one in
the months to come.
Still coming up, the scars of war in Eastern Ukraine. We will hear how a defiant woman and her elderly mother survived Russian artillery attack
which destroyed their home.
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GIOKOS: Welcome, back I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu Dhabi. You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD.
Right, now the mayor of Mariupol says there is intense fighting at the Azovstal steel plant and that contact has been lost with Ukrainian forces
defending it. The mayor added hundreds of civilians, including more than 2 dozen children, are still trapped inside and waiting for a new evacuation
plan.
And meanwhile, in Western Ukraine, electricity has been restored in Lviv and Russian strikes hit three power stations on Wednesday, causing
significant damage. And the E.U. commissioner president in the meantime, Ursula van der Leyen, is proposing more sanctions on Moscow, including a
complete ban on Russian oil.
A source tells CNN the head of the Russian Orthodox church is one of the individuals to be targeted in a sixth round of sanctions. The Ukrainian
military says that Russian forces have not made much progress toward their goal of securing regions in the east. But the heavy artillery fire has
taken a terrible toll on civilians. CNN's Sam Kiley reports.
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SAM KILEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since Russian rockets destroyed her home and killed her brother, all she has left is her
mother and her life.
LUDMILLA (through translator): All at once, it had fallen one by one. There were explosions everywhere. All through the kitchen and the house,
the windows and frame blew into the room. We were standing there. My brother was making the sign of the cross and I'm shouting.
I turned away from him to look at the house and then another rocket hit and I was trapped under the rubble. I can't see my brother anymore. I fell and
I don't even know how I woke up and started pulling myself out. I'm all scratched and battered. I yelled, "Vita (ph), Vita (ph)," but he was gone.
KILEY (voice-over): Lyudmila's home was flattened in Lysychansk during the battle for Rubizhne, which is now in Russian hands. Putin's forces have
been driving Southeast along the Donetsk River and South from Izyum. Russia's stated aim is to capture all of the Donbas and that includes
Luhansk and Donetsk provinces.
The governor of Luhansk says that Ukraine can hold the Russians back, for now.
"But," he says, "we need powerful long-range artillery. And that, unfortunately, is not here yet. And it could completely change the whole
war. Without the heavy weapons already promised by the U.S. and other Western allies," he says, "the Russians will destroy everything with
artillery and mortars. They destroy with aircraft. They use helicopters. They're just wiping everything off the face of the earth so there's nothing
left to hang onto."
For Ukraine, this is an existential battle.
[10:35:00]
KILEY (voice-over): Reinforcements have been rushed to the front lines but there's no sign of the heavy weapons needed to block a Russian advance,
much less reverse it.
The doctor says Lyudmila will be moved West for more treatment. But her fate and that of her 96-year-old mother, is unknown.
"We simply cannot physically handle so many wounded with such severe injuries," he says.
This elderly woman, a victim of Russian shelling that morning, joins the ward. And more than 13 million other Ukrainians have fled their homes to
escape Lyudmila's fate.
LUDMILLA (through translator): I was brought here naked. I had nothing at all, no money, no documents, nothing.
KILEY (voice-over): Yet, her very survival is a small victory over Putin, because she's been neither beggared nor beaten -- Sam Kiley, CNN, in
Bakhmach.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Incredible resilience there.
CNN's Scott McLean is in Lviv. Russian strikes took out several power stations.
Scott, great to have you on. This is a clear indication that Russia's trying to target infrastructure, key and vital infrastructure, by focusing
on power lines and of course, we have seen this before a very similar in terms of train stations.
And you've heard some of those explosions. Tell me about it.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. They have been, just before dark and the sound was unmistakable. I heard three separate explosions. The last was
undoubtedly the loudest.
Shortly after, you can see the smoke rising on the horizon in several different directions. There were strikes, east, west and also south of the
city. And they hit power substations we understand. We went out to the one east of the city, about four miles outside of the city center or so.
A substation was right next to a railway track, one that you can easily take from Lviv to Kyiv. It was right on the, way and it doesn't seem like
any of the actual train track infrastructure was hit.
But obviously this power station seems like it's integrated into that rail system in some way. And also there was power out as well in parts of the
city for some time. The mayor now says that it has been restored. They also had an issue with the water as well since power was taken out to water
pumping stations.
Though they had backup generations in that case. The mayor of Lviv said that there were 18 or 19 missiles that were fired toward Ukraine last night
by Russia, many of them were shot down, including strikes in Kyiv and even some of the firing on Lviv was shot down as well.
The head of Ukrainian railways says that this was an attempt to take out railway infrastructure as well since six of the strikes damaged or were
along railway infrastructure, including some of these power substations and including some of the strikes in the Dnipro region as well.
We know there was an industry in the Dnipro region according to local officials. There were two injuries here in Lviv as well. The Pentagon
spokesperson says this is a Russian attempt to try and make it harder for Ukraine to get weapons from Poland, from the border to the front lines.
The Russians have previously warned the Ukrainians any shipment of weapons that is moving across the country, even if it's coming from NATO, is fair
game for missile strikes.
GIOKOS: Yes, and here is a reality. You've also been witnessing just how many displaced people have ended up in Lviv. We see these sporadic attacks
on the outskirts of Lviv.
Is there a concern now that Lviv might become a significant target for the Russians?
MCLEAN: I think this is the fourth time that Lviv has been -- the region I should say -- has been hit by missiles by my count. I think every time the
bombs drop in the city, there is a rethink of what the city has been useful for, which has been a refuge for so many people.
I don't think that anybody is panicking at this moment because the city, if you walk around, still feels remarkably normal. You would never know that
bombs fell on the city or around the city yesterday. People are still going about their business.
I think that concern is that if the frequency of these attacks starts to step up, people might start flying toward the border. Already, we have seen
a trend of people going the opposite direction, I was in Poland a few weeks ago and a lot of people were headed back into Ukraine. They felt that it
was safe enough.
I met several people here in Lviv as well who had gone to Poland, had gone abroad to Europe and then have since come back, saying that they were
willing to take a small risk, a relatively small risk. We are still a long way from the front line in order to get on with their lives. They didn't
just feel like they were living fully while they were waiting as refugees in Europe.
[10:40:00]
GIOKOS: All right, Scott McLean, thank you very much and good to see you.
And coming, up no love lost as two tennis rivals meet again.
Who will end up being served in Madrid?
That coming up.
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GIOKOS: The U.S. State Department is now classifying pro basketball star Brittney Griner as being wrongfully detained in Russia. This means the U.S.
won't have to wait for Griner's case to move through Russia's legal system. The U.S. will seek to negotiate her return through President Biden's
special envoy for hostage affairs.
Griner was arrested at a Moscow airport in February and accused of smuggling narcotics, which is punishable by up to 10 years in prison in
Russia.
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