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NATO Chief: Don't Trade Security for Economic Gain; Quad Strong Despite Differences over Russia; Former U.S. Special Forces Helping in Ukraine; Maxar Giving Key Imagery to Ukraine; South Korea's New President Offers COVID-19 Help to North Korea; Ukrainians Seek Healing amid Devastating Losses. Aired 10-10:45a ET

Aired May 24, 2022 - 10:00   ET





JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Russia's assault on Ukraine only heightens the importance of those goals, the fundamental principles of

international order, territorial integrity and sovereignty.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): President Biden and his Asian allies put security and economic concerns front and center as the Ukraine

conflict marks the end of its third month.



JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: The conflict in Ukraine has underlined the importance of Europe and (INAUDIBLE) standing together in


ANDERSON (voice-over): More on the message from NATO's chief speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos.



ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These new satellite images show what appeared to be the ramping up of theft

by Russia of Ukrainian grain being poured into the open hole of a Russian ship.

ANDERSON (voice-over): A CNN exclusive at the time of great uncertainty. There is new evidence that Russian ships may be stealing food from Ukraine.



ANDERSON: It is 3 pm in London. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.

Exactly three months after Russia's president ordered his troops to invade Ukraine, the eyes of world leaders and top diplomats remain squarely

focused on Putin's war. From the east to the west, Ukraine a key topic at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland and the Quad summit in Japan.

In Tokyo, U.S. President Joe Biden told his counterparts from India, Australia and Japan that Russian aggression has put democracies on notice

and on the defensive.


BIDEN: Russia's assault on Ukraine only heightens the importance of those goals, the fundamental principles of international order, territorial

integrity and sovereignty, international law, human rights must always be defended regardless of where they are violated in the world.

So the Quad has a lot of work ahead of us.


ANDERSON: In Davos, the European Commission president said that sanctions against Russia are, quote, "draining Putin's war machine." Ursula van der

Leyen vowed that the E.U. will help Ukraine rise from the ashes.

And the NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg pointedly told Vladimir Putin that his goal to reduce NATO's influence in Europe has backfired. He

also talked about the importance of sanctions. Have a listen.


STOLTENBERG: These massive sanctions remind us of one of the important lessons from this conflict, that we should not trade long-term security

needs for short-term economic interests.


ANDERSON: Julia Chatterley, the anchor of "FIRST MOVE," you saw her show just before this one. She is joining us live from Davos.

And Blake Essig is in Tokyo.

Blake, I want to start with you, there are two big stories here dominating this Quad summit. The first is Ukraine, the second is China. Both are

eliciting strong comments from the United States president.

What are your takeaways as far as you are concerned, listening into what has been said at this point?

BLAKE ESSIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, for the United States, simply being here goes a long ways toward demonstrating that, despite Russia's invasion

of Ukraine, the United States remains committed both in terms of resources and attention to the Indo-Pacific.

For all Quad member states, one of the main goals was to demonstrate that the Quad's unity has not been damaged by the war in Ukraine. It is no

secret that India has not been on the same page as other members of the Quad. They have been reluctant to criticize Russia's actions.

They have not been supportive of resolutions within the U.N. But the fact the summit was held at all serves to remind that despite any possible

cracks suggested in the media, experts say that today's summit proves that the Quad remains united when it comes to the main objective: to uphold a

rules-based order in the Indo-Pacific. Take a listen.


JAMES BROWN, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS EXPERT, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY: Irrespective of developments in Europe, the Quad is active and alive. The

U.S. remains committed to it.


BROWN: Differences over Russia change nothing about the commitment of the four members to stand firm against what they see as Chinese aggressive



ESSIG: With many experts already considering the Quad a success, the leaders of the four member states came together to address a number of key

issues. They discussed security issues impacting the region. Prime Minister Kishida says they all had a frank discussion about the impact the war in

Ukraine is having on the Indo-Pacific.

They agreed that the rules of law, sovereignty and territorial integrity must be upheld no matter the region.

The leaders also addressed the situation in Myanmar as well as North Korea's continued effort to develop its nuclear and missile programs,

saying each of the countries will work in partnership toward advancing North Korea's complete denuclearization.

The leaders also discussed climate change, vaccines, humanitarian assistance and infrastructure. Experts say the Quad mainly exists today to

counter China's influence in territorial claims in the region.

Kishida said the leaders expressed grave concern over China unilaterally trying to change the status quo in the East and South China Seas although

China's economic growth is beneficial for its trading partners and the global economy.

Quad members are looking to encourage Beijing to abide by international law, play by the rules and keep the seas free and open -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes, this is fascinating.

I know that those gathered in Davos, Julia, will be keeping one eye firmly on what is going on with that Quad summit, the Asian allies and the United

States heavily focused on territorial sovereignty, on security and on economic concerns.

All of those playing out in Davos. You have been reporting on the fact that the global order is so important to those gathered. Ukraine is front and


We have had some blunt comments from a number of European leaders about Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine. There is also real concern about the

war continuing to have an impact on the global economy.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: It is echoing more of the same. This is what we have all heard. What has crystallized for me here in Davos, there are no

easy decisions. Whether it is politics, economics or the moral decisions, whatever crisis you look at -- and they're all connected, food security,

the energy crisis, the humanitarian crisis, the war in Ukraine, COVID is tied into this.

That's impacting decisions. These tough decisions have consequences both politically and domestically. Whether it is energy security or sanction

decisions, the ripple effect around the world, the danger of escalating these crises, is part of the problem.

That brings it back to contradictions with what some leaders are saying. Listen to what the secretary general of NATO had to say, putting pressure

on decisions as far as Russia is concerned.


STOLTENBERG: We must recognize that our economic choices have consequences for our security. Freedom is more important than free trade (ph). The

protection of (ph) values is more important than profit.


CHATTERLEY: Herein lies the problem, Becky. I spoke to the Germany economic minister. He said, look, we went to the Americans; we have talked

to them about oil sanctions.

The U.S. said they were going to do oil sanctions but Germany can't. The world could not afford the further escalation in oil prices as a

consequence. There is not enough to go around.

There has been a moral question about the fact that Germany appears to be financing the war by the back door over the energy demand, the supply that

Russia provides. But there are consequences for other nations when you make a domestic decision. It might be for Europe or beyond.

Then I spoke to the World Food Programme chief. He said we need fertilizer and grain from Russia. We cannot feed the poorest nations in the world

without it. Whether it is sanctions or self-sanctions, if you cut off that trade with Russia, the escalation in the food crisis is ginormous.

There are no easy decisions here. But at least we are talking about all of these things and we are trying to connect the dots.

ANDERSON: Thank you for doing that with us today.


ANDERSON: And to you Blake as well. We really appreciate it.

At the Quad summit, U.S. President Joe Biden said that America's Taiwan policy has not changed.

A day earlier, he said that the U.S. would respond militarily if China invades the territory. That would seemingly very much change long-standing

U.S. policy. Mr. Biden claimed that is not the case.


QUESTION: Mr. President, is the policy of strategic ambiguity toward Taiwan dead?


QUESTION: Could you explain?


QUESTION: Mr. President, would you send troops to Taiwan if China invaded?

BIDEN: The policy has not changed at all. I stated that when I made my statement yesterday.


ANDERSON: We will have a lot more analysis on what China and Beijing said about Taiwan. That is coming in the next hour.

Ukraine's president said that Kyiv is ready to exchange prisoners with Russia as soon as possible. His comments came during a question and answer

session at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Mr. Zelenskyy says the world must keep pressure on Russia to make the prisoner exchanges happen and a

prisoner swap should come as soon as possible.

On the ground, Russian troops are trying their best to break through Eastern Ukraine's Donbas region. The local military says there is heavy

fighting just north of Donetsk. One person has died, four others have been injured.

Ukrainian forces are trying to stop Russia's westward advance. They are getting help from foreign volunteers. Some of them have arrived with years

of combat experience. That includes former elite Special Forces from the United States. Sam Kiley speaks with one of them in this exclusive




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't. We just knew that enemy was this way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move, move, move.


We just hopped in these backyards and cleared through here.

KILEY (voice-over): It's not as straightforward as it sounds.

Veterans have years of counterinsurgency warfare. This small team of American and British fighters is under Ukrainian command and they now look

at war down the other end of the barrel and have asked us to conceal their identities for their own security.

This is a war that has a moral clarity for these volunteers and Ukraine's International Legion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, people keep saying, oh, you're doing it for democracy. It's really not. You know, it really comes down to good versus


I never figured out why they were killing women and children and it wasn't by accident, it was murder. I mean, we found many people just at the end of

the street that were bound together and shot, thrown on the side of the road.

KILEY (voice-over): Many in Kevin's team, ex-Special Forces operators, have had millions spent on their training in the West, in countries that

won't send troops to war with Russia.

Among the first into Irpin, they took over this house behind enemy lines. He says the team killed dozens of Russians in the park below. He says that

the fighting and the shelling and the Russian killing of civilians was relentless.

KEVIN, AMERICAN FIGHTER: Two pro-Russians in here.

KILEY (voice-over): As Kevin's team advanced, he says they got trapped in this health spa for several days. It was steadily torn apart by Russian


KEVIN: This was a house of hell. This was four really miserable days of really little sleep, really heavy artillery, really heavy infantry presence

from the Russians.

KILEY (voice-over): Kevin's small team is funded largely by donations to the Ukrainian Legion. It operates mostly behind Russian lines. And they

were stunned at first at being on the receiving end of airstrikes and heavy artillery. But they're applying the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan to

Russia and believe that they're having an effect on the enemy.

KEVIN: There's definitely a psychological aspect to it. We do know that the Russians were talking about hey, they're up like we can't figure out

where they're at. We don't know what's happening. We are being artilleried so heavy that we put this chair here so we could jump out this window if we

had to in a hurry.

KILEY (voice-over): Deeper into this mall, he comes across evidence that Russia plays dirty, even in local defeat.

KEVIN: So a lot of the Russians came back through some of these places and re-mined them.

Put booby traps. You can see this cable goes back into the ground where it's been intentionally buried and then it's tied off here.

KILEY (voice-over): So far, this group has not lost a soldier.

KEVIN: Definitely a nightmare.

KILEY (voice-over): But that time may come. It's a risk he says he is prepared to take because for the West's former warriors in the war on

terror, Ukraine has given them something back.


KEVIN: One way or the other, they've either been lost or they've lost everything. So this has given them another chance. You know, they come back

here and it's like they've put their life back together -- Sam Kiley, CNN, Ukraine.


ANDERSON: The European Commission president says that Russia is weaponizing global food supplies as it is doing with energy. And new

satellite photos might show that. They show Russian ships loading what is believed to be stolen grain. This was last week in Crimea.

Ukraine's president claims that Russia is trying to sell his country's food. The Kremlin denies it. Alex Marquardt is joining us now.

Alex, what else do we know about these new satellite images?

MARQUARDT: Becky, you are absolutely right. What we are seeing now, in these images from Maxar Technologies, is very much part of the

weaponization of Ukraine's food supply.

We have two Russian flagships. They appear to be being loaded with Ukrainian grain. It appears to be ramping up the Russian effort to steal

this grain. These images are from Maxar.

We also got an exclusive tour of the Maxar satellite facility. Maxar, along with other satellite imagery companies, have been playing a critical

role, showing us some of the most dramatic and tragic events in the war in Ukraine.


MARQUARDT (voice-over): These new satellite images show what appear to be the ramping up of theft by Russia of Ukrainian grain being poured into the

open hold of a Russian ship.

This was in the Crimean port of Sevastopol on May 19th. Then, two days later, a second ship docks and it too is filled. Now both Russian ships are

sailing away.

This weekend, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy accused Russia of fueling a food crisis and of gradually stealing Ukraine's food supplies and trying to

sell them.

An earlier image from Maxar Technologies shows one of those same Russian ships in a port of their close ally, Syria. The Ukrainian grain waiting to

be unloaded onto trucks. These extraordinary revealing images are so close and so clear they look like they could be taken by drone or helicopter.

STEPHEN WOOD, SENIOR DIRECTOR, MAXAR NEWS BUREAU: You can actually see the grain pouring into the open hole of the ship.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Stephen Wood and his team at Maxar spotted the ships in this much wider image of Crimea.

WOOD: This is 400 miles up in space. To be able to see that kind of level of detail, the ships, the cab of the truck, pretty phenomenal stuff.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Maxar and other commercial satellite companies have played a critical role in what we know about Russia's war in Ukraine

with satellite imagery that is unprecedented, both in quality and how it's being used.

WOOD: Before, this was only available in the halls of the CIA or the U.S. government or friendly foreign governments. To now we're showing it on CNN.

MARQUARDT: We're keeping a very close eye on that column of Russian vehicles, that convoy we've been talking about for several days.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): They alerted the world to the famous 40-mile-long Russian convoy outside Kyiv, the rows of hundreds of mass graves near

Mariupol, potential war crimes in Bucha and the aftermath of the Russian bombing of the Mariupol theater.

DANIEL JABLONSKY, CEO MAXAR TECHNOLOGIES: The satellite is in the final stages of getting ready to be shipped very soon.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): We were given a rare tour of Maxar satellite factory in Palo Alto, California by CEO Dan Jablonsky. Joint projects with

NASA and others, construction under way on six new Maxar satellites which will allow them to scan a single spot on Earth 15 times a day.

For decades, Maxar has provided all kinds of images to both private clients and to the U.S. government, their biggest customer.

MARQUARDT: How much does the U.S. government tell you where to look?

JABLONSKY: They tell us where to point the satellites and take the imagery and then that's what we feed into them as a service, the same way we would

do for Google maps, for example.

MARQUARDT: Will the intelligence community, for example, say we know that there is a war crime that has been committed. There are all these mass

graves, for example. Train your satellites there and then push out those images to the press?

JABLONSKY: They actually -- they might ask us to make those collections but they don't -- they do not influence or ask us to necessarily put out

what we're putting out to the public.

MARQUARDT (voice-over): Maxar is now giving imagery to the Ukrainian government, part of the U.S. aid for Ukraine. In a fight, the U.S. and

others now say that has resulted in Russian war crimes.

MARQUARDT: To what extent are your images going to be critical in these war crimes investigations?

WOOD: For example, the bodies that were found on the street in Bucha. We had imagery correlating at that exact same time where these bodies were,

down to the place, the time and the moment. It's having that kind of fidelity of data that we now have that makes that possible. And I also only

think it will play an important part.



MARQUARDT: Now Becky, each one of those Russian ships that we showed you there in the new imagery has a capacity of 30,000 metric tons. So each

shipment would be 30,000 tons of Ukrainian grain sailing away.

Of course, Russia denies they're stealing Ukraine's grain. But we have also seen evidence that Russia has been targeting silos and blocking food from

getting outside the country.

That is why there is an effort underway between Ukraine and other countries to organize convoys, likely on land, to try and get some of those Ukrainian

food products out of the country.

This is devastating for Ukraine and their economy but also for the world, so reliant on what is produced in Ukraine. At the very least, even though

this is happening, thanks to companies like Maxar and others we can see what is happening in real time.

ANDERSON: Alex, we appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.

Coming up, South Korea's new president is taking a different approach with North Korea.

What is he planning to do about Pyongyang's COVID outbreak?

We have more on the CNN exclusive interview.

Plus with homes, schools and other buildings under attack, the Ukraine war has left gaping scars on the landscape and on people's psyches. We will

look at what is being done to help them.




ANDERSON: Let's get you up to speed on some of the stories that are on our radar right now.

WHO officials say that there are now more than 250 confirmed and suspected monkeypox cases worldwide. At least 16 countries, including the United

States, have reported these infections. Researchers are investigating the cause of the outbreak in countries that don't normally see cases of this

rare disease.

The death toll has climbed to 10 after a building collapsed in the southwest part of Iran. Emergency services say some 50 people could still

be trapped under the rubble of the unfinished structure in the city of Abadan. Iranian state media says investigators are trying to find out what

made it collapse.

You are looking at images that purport to show British prime minister Boris Johnson drinking at an event in Downing Street during one of the COVID

lockdowns. These pictures were obtained by Britain's ITV News.

They are believed to show Mr. Johnson leaving a party on November the 13th, 2020, where as far as his direction was concerned in the country, there was

no mixing allowed. This is fueling new questions about the Partygate scandal.

The political career of Yoon Suk-yeol is off to a whirlwind start.


ANDERSON: South Korea's new president has been thrust onto the world stage after his summit with U.S. President Joe Biden. Now President Yoon is now

offering to help North Korea as the reclusive nation is struggling with the COVID outbreak and nearly 2 million suspected COVID cases in recent weeks.

Paula Hancocks sat down with President Yoon for an exclusive interview. She joins us now from Seoul.

You had a really wide ranging discussion with the new president. Mr. Yoon taking a really tough stance, a pivot on the narrative as regards

Pyongyang. But he is planning to provide some support for North Korea's COVID crisis. Explain.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he is offering a dual track when it comes to North Korea. As you say, he is going to change his tack from

his predecessor. He doesn't believe Moon's approach was successful.

But he says that he is willing to help when it comes to the COVID outbreak. He has publicly said that Pyongyang admitted they had a Omicron outbreak in

Pyongyang. He said that he was willing to offer vaccines, masks, testing kits.

We know that those are few and far between in North Korea but there has been no response from North Korea. The United States, along with President

Biden, have offered effectively the same help.

So I asked President Yoon Suk-yeol about the fact that it is very difficult for Kim Jong-un to accept help from two countries which he has publicly

called his enemies.

How else can he get this aid to the North Korean people?


YOON SUK-YEOL, PRESIDENT OF SOUTH KOREA (through translator): If North Korea accepts these medical supplies to quickly distribute them to its

people, we will provide them in any method North Korea wishes. It could be through a third country or an international organization. We are fully



HANCOCKS: President Yoon also said that the North Korean people's right to health care is a human right. He believes that North Korea should accept

help from outside -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Fascinating. And a fascinating discussion, which you can find at Thank you.

As bombs fall in Ukraine, there are The effects that we cannot see. We hear from a psychiatrist who is helping Ukrainians cope with their shock and





ANDERSON: Welcome back, I'm Becky Anderson.


ANDERSON: I'm out of London for you today. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD.

Changing the status quo by force won't be tolerated. That is the message from the leaders of the U.S., Australia, India and Japan talking about

Russia's war on Ukraine. But they may also have a veiled warning for China.

U.S. President Joe Biden, now heading home from Asia, said that Ukraine is a global issue that requires a global response.

For the hidden toll of the incessant bombing and fighting in Ukraine, first lady Olena Zelenska says that the government is teaming up with the World

Health Organization to provide psychological support for Ukrainians.

She points out that with the barrage of missile strikes, no one, adults nor children, can be sure that they will wake up tomorrow. Let's get you to

Ukraine. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is in Lviv, who's been speaking to psychiatrists there about the impact of the war on children's mental


And this was something, Suzanne, that we talked a lot about at the outset of this war. And as it grinds on, it's so important that we continue to

remind ourselves, as this war continues, just what sort of impact it is having not least on the most vulnerable, the kids in society.

What did you find out?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: It's so true, Becky. I mean the first lady brings it to our attention by launching this initiative, working

with the World Health Organization.

But she talks about unspeakable horrors that Ukrainians have dealt with here. And you're talking about families who have been torn apart, parents

who have lost their children, children who are orphaned, the assault and the rape of war, the uncertainty of the future of their lives, many

displaced, some trying to come home.

And we have been following an American group, a professional group, the Center for Mind-Body Medicine. And they are working with their Ukrainian

counterparts, those in the mental health profession as well as educators and ministers, to try and reach out to the communities, teach them simple

tools to help them deal with their trauma, to begin that process of healing.

I want to warn our viewers, some of these images might be disturbing.


MALVEAUX (voice-over): In the cities of Bucha and Irpin, the streets are quiet. The sun shines brightly. The Russian forces that committed gruesome

crimes just weeks ago are gone.

As part of a therapy exercise with her family, 8-year-old Sofia Beloshova (ph) is asked to draw what it was like for her during the fighting.


SOFIA BELOSHOVA (PH), WAR SURVIVOR (through translator): The Russian warrior killed -- kills -- is killing the child.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): American psychiatrist, Dr. Jim Gordon, is in Ukraine, working with local partners to develop an urgent program to

address the overwhelming trauma here.

GORDON: The most important thing first is to say to people, there is a possibility of change. This isn't necessarily permanent. There is hope.

ANGELINA KASYANOVA WAR SURVIVOR: They hitting from tanks, from bombs, everything.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): For 19-year-old Angelina Kasyanova, her worst nightmare was realized, bombarded here in Irpin after already fleeing her

childhood home in the east when Russia attacked in 2014.

KASYANOVA: Trauma of the war are with me for eight years.

With my family, we sleep in this room.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Angelina (ph) and her family sheltered in the basement with their neighbors for more than a week.

KASYANOVA: I was asleep here when it was bombed.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Outside, dead bodies were found in the streets.

KASYANOVA: It's very hard when you understand that you may be -- can lost your home again. And you are afraid that you can die.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Now Gordon teaches her techniques to help cope, using deep breathing and movement.

GORDON: The shaking and dancing allows people with those trauma-frozen bodies to melt a little bit.

First shake.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Angelina, who now counsels children who have lost their parents, will join a workshop Gordon is offering on how to fight

trauma during what is expected to be a long conflict.

GORDON: Really nice to see them.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): The O'Connell (ph) family is on the move and facing multiple crises, living in a shelter with four children in Western

Ukraine's Lviv since fleeing their home in the east. A missile attack at their neighborhood train station traumatized the children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They ran home and hid themselves under the beds.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Gordon asked them to draw and their pictures are dark.


GORDON: A grave?


MALVEAUX (voice-over): For 13-year-old Nastya (ph) --

GORDON: She draws herself collapsed on the ground in a state of total terror with the railway station blowing up.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): Nastya's (ph) mother reveals she cannot express her own emotions.


MALVEAUX (voice-over): She has to be strong for her children. Her daughter is overwhelmed with grief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pain fades a little but still I want to go home.

MALVEAUX: In due time, do you think you will?


MALVEAUX (voice-over): Her family's future, she imagines, a little brighter, a first step to healing.


MALVEAUX: And Gordon and his group will be working with the famed Dr. Roman Ketr (ph) here in Ukraine, partnering with the Catholic University in

Ukraine for an emergency online training session June 6-7 to try to help the communities learn those valuable skills, to pass them on to their

families and to their communities to begin that a very difficult process of healing. Becky.

ANDERSON: Suzanne Malveaux is in Ukraine for you.

Suzanne, thank you.

We're going to take a very short break at this point. Back after this.




ANDERSON: Welcome back, I'm Becky Anderson.

The court battle continues between actors Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. Heard's attorneys have just rested their case after days of calling expert

witnesses. A source says that Depp's former girlfriend, model Kate Moss, now is expected to testify this week.

It's just the newest twist in what is this defamation suit that Depp brought against his ex wife. CNN's Chloe Melas has the latest for you.


CHLOE MELAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new star witness set to testify in the $50 million defamation suit actor Johnny Depp has brought

against his ex-wife, Amber Heard.

Supermodel Kate Moss is expected to be called as a rebuttal witness for Johnny Depp in the final days of the trial, a source close to Depp tells


Moss and Depp dated in the '90s and remain close, the source confirmed. Moss is expected to testify about a rumored incident between her and Depp

involving a flight of stairs.

Earlier this month, Heard mentioned the alleged incident when testifying about a March 2015 fight, where she punched Depp. She said she feared he

was going to shove her sister Whitney down a flight of stars.


AMBER HEARD, ACTRESS: I can see my little sister with her back, face, her back to the staircase. And Johnny swings at her.

I just, in my head, instantly think of Kate Moss and the stairs. And I swung at him.


MELAS (voice-over): Heard mentioning the model by name opened the door for Moss to testify in the trial. Depp's attorney seemingly elated, pumping

his fist and smiling at Depp.

On Monday, Heard's team continued to rebut Depp's claims of defamation. Both Depp and Heard deny being abusive and cast each other as the abuser in

their relationship.

Entertainment expert Kathryn Arnold testified that Depp's career was on a downward trajectory and his reputation was already suffering before Heard

wrote a 2018 "Washington Post" opinion piece that she was a victim of domestic violence. She testified that Disney dropped Depp from "Pirates of

the Caribbean 6" for other reasons.


KATHRYN ARNOLD, ENTERTAINMENT EXPERT: The rising cost of Mr. Depp, his talent, the challenges that they had to keep it on budget because of his

lateness and his tardiness and all the other allegations that would affect a brand such as Disney, so there were many problems.

MELAS (voice-over): Heard is countersuing Depp for $100 million, claiming her career has suffered because of statements from Depp's team.

ARNOLD: I like to call "Aquaman" really Amber Heard's "A Star is Born" moment.

MELAS (voice-over): Arnold testified that Heard's role in the sequel to "Aquaman" was greatly diminished after Depp's attorney called Heard's

allegations of domestic violence a hoax.

Arnold testified Heard has not made any other studio movies and estimates it's Heard who has suffered the loss of millions of dollars.

Heard's team also called an expert orthopedic surgeon, casting doubt on Depp's description of how his fingertip was severed. He claimed Heard threw

a glass bottle at him, causing the injury. Dr. Richard Moore says that Depp's injuries are not consistent with that account.

DR. RICHARD MOORE, EXPERT WITNESS FOR DEFENSE: The description was of a hand being flat on the bar and the bottle crushing the finger from the top.

But looking at the images, there's really no significant injury in the dorsum of the finger. And to create that type of injury with that, with

that type of a crush injury, we would anticipate both injury to the fingernail and other parts of the finger.

MELAS (voice-over): Also testifying for Heard, Dr. David Spiegel, the psychiatrist who is an expert in intimate partner violence. Neither doctor

has evaluated Depp but they did review testimony and medical records. Spiegel concluded:

DR. DAVID SPIEGEL, PSYCHIATRIST: Mr. Depp has behaviors that are consistent with both someone who has a substance use disorder as well as

consistent behaviors with someone who is a perpetrator of intimate partner violence.


ANDERSON: That's Chloe Melas reporting.